So much state that spirits are bad.Are they?
They are. I’ll explain.
Well, if you haven’t noticed, ranger’s support lives only as long as all ignore ranger itself. First random AoE in this video – and the spirit is dead (I would note that no1 does focus ranger itself, just random aoe). In addition, by itself, ranger’s buffs is a proc. Much better would be an option with two warriors, one of which is banners-support.
And This only structured PvP. Imagine WvW. Or dungeon, where everything is strewn with AoE and mobs choose completely randoml targets.
(edited by MeGaZlo.9516)
And this is only 8v8 format, imagine if people actually cared enough to notice spirit rangers and immediately slay them. Not to damper your hopes but hotjoins are kind of the worst place to assess build status because generally everything works to some extent. I mean my buddy ran banner longbow warrior for kitten and giggles and still topped the chart on his team… really doesnt mean it’s good though…
This video shows a warrior and a support ranger.I dont see any lack of support from the ranger
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv_weU8nbrk&feature=relmfu.
You need to watch that video again.
The spirits were dying constantly, the Warrior kept stepping out of the tiny range of the spirits, and even when the Warrior was in range the effects almost never activated.
There was very little actual “support” going on in that video.
To top it all off, most of those fights were 2v1 or even 3v1. The Ranger wasn’t even needed.
(edited by Grimwolf.7163)
i watch it again.At 0:54 i can see clearly warrior been affected by the spirits buff.No,it doesnt proc any buff and we cant see it if it does but they can reach him defently.Hes at 500 range at least.I dont want to rename the banners to spirits and put the same philosofy of support to rangers.Actually we can carry our spirits with us and they have some active skills.Sure they die pretty easy.Ill work it cause im feeling that you are trolling me guys
(edited by Dardamaniac.1295)
These guys fought hardly any opposition. 3 vs 1 or 2 vs 1 is going to be easy with any build combination.
They hardly did anything! As Grimwolf pointed out, the Warrior hardly had the Ranger’s buffs during the match.
“They can hardly stand a chance against us.”
They had no idea what they were talking about! They spent more time running between points than actual combat.
Tarnished Coast
i watch it again.At 0:54 i can see clearly warrior been affected by the spirits buff.No,it doesnt proc any buff and we cant see it if it does but they can reach him defently.Hes at 500 range at least.I dont want to rename the banners to spirits and put the same philosofy of support to rangers.Actually we can carry our spirits with us and they have some active skills.Sure they die pretty easy.Ill work it cause im feeling that you are trolling me guys
I didn’t mean that the little “you are in range of the spirit” icon was not appearing; I meant that the actual boon provided by the spirit was not triggering, like the Protection from the earth spirit he had.
I think you guys are missing the point of his spirit build. He doesn’t care if the spirits die. He has spec’d so that when the spirits die they trigger their activated abilities which is what he is counting on.
You guys do realize that 1) spirits have 900 range 2) only 2 spirits apply boons, the other 2 apply a burn (easily tracked) and a damage increase (100% unnoticeable) 3) spirits have an active effect you can trigger immediately after summoning (which they will use even if they die mid cast) 4) this active ability can be traited so it goes off when they die (VERY useful and punishes groups who kill spirits) 5) spirits effects linger for 3-5 seconds after the spirits death, meaning that even if you run out of range of spirit or the spirit dies you can still get the boon/the offensive effect while the spirit is dead.
I run a spirit build in tPvP and it works REALLY well, i personally don’t take Spirits Unbound because i think it’s a stupid trait, and i have about 3.1k armor 3.2k attack 18k health and 750-1000 healing (depending on how long i can go) i’d hardly say that i’m squishy or easy to kill, so even if they focus me all they’re doing is allowing my team and pet to destroy them…
PS: There is no Internal CD on spirits (i haven’t seen it mentioned in this thread yet but it will) so the more and more people you have in the area the stronger and stronger spirits become.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
The biggest issue really is the range. 900 sounds large at first, but for an ordinary stationary spirit which dies easily, it’s very tiny.
Sure, for the active effect the range can’t be too large (though it needs to be larger than the current one in many cases). But the passive radius should be 1200. If need be, cap it at 5 targets (but then make it 1800 range or something), 3s per application, 3s pulse.
You guys do realize that 1) spirits have 900 range 2) only 2 spirits apply boons, the other 2 apply a burn (easily tracked) and a damage increase (100% unnoticeable) 3) spirits have an active effect you can trigger immediately after summoning (which they will use even if they die mid cast) 4) this active ability can be traited so it goes off when they die (VERY useful and punishes groups who kill spirits) 5) spirits effects linger for 3-5 seconds after the spirits death, meaning that even if you run out of range of spirit or the spirit dies you can still get the boon/the offensive effect while the spirit is dead.
I run a spirit build in tPvP and it works REALLY well, i personally don’t take Spirits Unbound because i think it’s a stupid trait, and i have about 3.1k armor 3.2k attack 18k health and 750-1000 healing (depending on how long i can go) i’d hardly say that i’m squishy or easy to kill, so even if they focus me all they’re doing is allowing my team and pet to destroy them…
PS: There is no Internal CD on spirits (i haven’t seen it mentioned in this thread yet but it will) so the more and more people you have in the area the stronger and stronger spirits become.
Link build and gimme some tips.Thank you
I had some fun with this video. And …. really? In 10 min fight none touched the ranger. Keep in mind that noone touched him and add that his spirits (1 of them each time) died 2 times from random AoE.
So what he offered ? Really cant see why you gave this video for example…
This match ended in 10 minutes and was one of the most boring videos ever. If you think that the ranger offered anything or spirits had some use, i dont.
I had some fun with this video. And …. really? In 10 min fight none touched the ranger. Keep in mind that noone touched him and add that his spirits (1 of them each time) died 2 times from random AoE.
So what he offered ? Really cant see why you gave this video for example…
This match ended in 10 minutes and was one of the most boring videos ever. If you think that the ranger offered anything or spirits had some use, i dont.
He offered an aoe chill-stun-slow,Regen with healing sprint-pets-nature spirit,a chance for 20% dmg and protection,mass rez,cond removal and some other cc.And yes the spirits are not only for the buff,they have some very nice active skills.People keep forgeting it.They die yes but they activate their skill and have a pretty good cd.I cant understand why you want to be warriors in ranger outfit.Most ppl want spirits give 100 power-100 vitality in a big aoe.Thats mean just banners named spirits.No i dont want this for my ranger,if you want play warrior
While no one touch him ever? I hope that we all understand that ppl mostly complaining about spirits survivability. Also about the proc chance.
So yes if a ranger is untouchable for 1 min, his spirits gonna stay alive and get a proc. If someone focus him for 10 secs or some random AoE hit the ranger then his utility goes to zero. (something thats gonna happen in SPvP from someone that knows the basics).
Warriors banners might have 2 mins cd (instead of 1min) but you know that u gonna have them when you need them and gonna buff you all the time.
You dont understand friend that its not always about the buff .Warrriors cant heal except from traited banners and traited shouts,just check how many ways a ranger got to heal.I dont recall to be chilled from a warrior but ranger with axe trap spirit got 3.its nice to have a constant buff all the time but its also nice to have a enemy chilled(slow-low dmg) all the time.and its not just the chill.He got more,how about cond removal from signet?and yes the proc chance is low but its just an add,its not only for the buff.i wouldnt like more proc chance and removal of the active effect
(edited by Dardamaniac.1295)
I had some fun with this video. And …. really? In 10 min fight none touched the ranger. Keep in mind that noone touched him and add that his spirits (1 of them each time) died 2 times from random AoE.
So what he offered ? Really cant see why you gave this video for example…
This match ended in 10 minutes and was one of the most boring videos ever. If you think that the ranger offered anything or spirits had some use, i dont.He offered an aoe chill-stun-slow,Regen with healing sprint-pets-nature spirit,a chance for 20% dmg and protection,mass rez,cond removal and some other cc.And yes the spirits are not only for the buff,they have some very nice active skills.People keep forgeting it.They die yes but they activate their skill and have a pretty good cd.I cant understand why you want to be warriors in ranger outfit.Most ppl want spirits give 100 power-100 vitality in a big aoe.Thats mean just banners named spirits.No i dont want this for my ranger,if you want play warrior
a: warrior banners are un-killable giveing constant up time on all of the buffs they provide
b: they do not have ot trait for the banners to follow them, they can pick them up and carry them, use them as a weapon with full range of abilities, not horrible damage, and offer aoe swiftness without giving up a weapon that they find more efficient.
c: warrior banners provide 100% uptime on all of the buffs they provide, there is no proc chance involved. ( i also feel that the spirits procs even if traited to 35% do not offer the proc enough at all. )
create a spirit build and use cross fire the fastest attacking abilitiy we have, monitor the stone sprit proc as it is the easiest to track. you will find that even with 35% you will hardly ever get protection.
support in general rangers are lack luster, although healing spring is a must have it almost all builds for the long duration, large size water field and aoe condition removal. healing power onl;y affects heals cast by the ranger. it does not affect spirit heals or your pet heals. this also can be tested in the mists with the npcs there. summon your nature spirit take some damage and hit your activated ability on your nature spirit. you can swap amulets all day long but your spirit will heal for the same amount no matter what. as opposed to warrior banners giving regen which is affected by healing power, also testable by the same methods. having 2 shouts with soldiers rune set and the healing power banner offers more all around burst heal/regen/condition removal and its more consistent than a ranger could possibly support at the same time having the ability to use weapons that have more effective crowd control.
a spirit is easily killed,has a small range for its buffs which is RNG based, and healing from spirits is not affected by healing power. if you want to actually support /bunker for your team ranger is inferior in every way compared to warrior in terms of support
What about the active skills?Noone is answering me…Why you are so obsessed with the “buffs”.Have you ever though that maybe,just saying,support doesnt only provide constant buffs but does other things too?Is it easier to pick up 4 banners and put em few feet away or just to come along with you?they have a long range but playing a little warrior support-banners i found the picking and replacing annoying some times.
And if you want a clear view check all the parts not only the one i linked.In part 5 he get nuked some times and survive just fine
(edited by Dardamaniac.1295)
What about the active skills?Noone is answering me…
The active skills on spirits are nothing to write home about. If you want “effects”, you’re much better off specing down traps for the increased area size, remote deployment and double duration on the conditions.
They all recharge in about 20 seconds, can’t be killed and their spec is down the crit line which meshes very well with either a condition(proc bleed on crits) or power build.
So you have your effects and you can pump out DPS at the same time.
How about effects with a chance to buff?Can traps do that?Can traps revive you,or heal you?How about when you want to have the effects and instead of dps support and hold the line?where do you prefer to spec,the crit or the vitality line?You are right but maybe we are quick to judge the spirits,thats all i am saying
Well, here’s where my preference to spec is for traps: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMEQJATVjEVx1tVCWo2BgVh9aPyUSMZPM0xHzYqIaNB;ToAAzCpoay0koJbTumkNtqYYB
Condition damage, shortbow/lynx are primary. Optionally swapping out hunt for a 3rd trap.
I don’t miss the Vit from nature since I have 3k armor and with 50% crit I’m stacking bleeds like crazy. The traps themselves are fantastic for holding the line and entangle is a really effective elite for both that and the 20k bleed it stacks.
The traps synergizes nicely with the condition damage and condition damage traits also boost toughness.
Nature boosts the spirits which are going to be down a lot more than my traps are and the traps are just going to hit harder. Boon duration buffing in the Vit line is pretty much a waste. Would be nice for troll urgent, but healing springs is pretty mandatory for any kind of team play.
that active skills are ok at best the active skills have fairly long cool downs and are not instant when you click the active ability it can sometimes be 2 full seconds when the effect wheres off and the entire fight could have moved away from the area where your spirit is. the only redeeming factor is if you spec for the conditions to happen on death of the spirit but again its random, the issue is with the whole complete randomness of spirits. with power i can spec for direct damage increases and see the effect all of the time. with conditions, same thing i instantly see the difference in the way my character performs and the way i want it to perform. with traps the effect is instant, i immediately see the trap on the ground at it activates instantly when someone steps in the AOE.
The issue with spirits is that the buffs are Random so no amount of planning or strategy can include those buffs. with the activated effects, there is always a delay between key press and activation. even if you are relying on someone killing your pet for the activation to occur a ranged weapon can harmlessly kill the spirits without fear of being debuffed or damaged. the only concession i am willing to make is the nature spirit elite skill, however that has bugs or delays that the only thing worth using it for is the healing it does( again not affected by healing power stat of caster) insta rezzing group members is great but at least 50% of the time the person is stomped before the effect goes off making it again only 50% effective at its job.
Speccing for something that is only effective 50% of the time while sacrificing 100% effective utilites(quickening zephyr, lightning reflexes, protect me) is a waste of a spot
spirits can be effective IF they increase the buff to 100% active time or increase the percentage proc to talented 60% and make them unkillable. with either of these 2 options i would lower there duration up time. and decrease the cooldown of the elite to be similar or a bit longer than entangle. in there current incarnation they are next to useless and waste of a utility slot better spent on either traps survival or condition removal.
Don’t know whether you guys have noticed such a phenomenon (at least works for me when I tried spirit build): Spirits can significantly increase the survivability especially while you escaping. Simply becoz those spirits will stay in a row behind you therefore blocks a lot damage from behind….
Another advantage of spirits which I have found is — the threatening effect.
Ranger + pet + 3 spirits = 5 red names. Sometimes either in sPVP or wvw, i met 2 enemies at a relatively long range, but they just run away while seeing me (yes!!! 5 red names coming! )……
Another advantage of spirits which I have found is — the threatening effect.
Ranger + pet + 3 spirits = 5 red names. Sometimes either in sPVP or wvw, i met 2 enemies at a relatively long range, but they just run away while seeing me (yes!!! 5 red names coming! )……
Really? That’s what you say most people do? Because when I see a flock of red names, I think: AoE.
And we all know that Spirits and pets melt under AoEs.
Tarnished Coast
I said —- sometimes. (it’s true that sometimes ppl just run away when seeing a flock of red names but not even pay attention what they are.)
Another advantage of spirits which I have found is — the threatening effect.
Ranger + pet + 3 spirits = 5 red names. Sometimes either in sPVP or wvw, i met 2 enemies at a relatively long range, but they just run away while seeing me (yes!!! 5 red names coming! )……Really? That’s what you say most people do? Because when I see a flock of red names, I think: AoE.
And we all know that Spirits and pets melt under AoEs.
(edited by CRrabbit.1284)
Ok, First of all AOE Rez is an excellent ability and the passive effects of the Nature spirit are also very good.
The Spirits yeah will die very quickly in a dungeon maybe but they live plenty long for you to use their activated ability and then have them die and then trigger their activated ability again in spvp.
If you compare the other spirits to the traps then yeah they may fall a bit short but they are a fine replacement considering how powerful the Nature Spirit is.
With my spirit build I run the Frost Spirit and the Sun Spirit along with Spirit of Nature.
Combine the Spirits with Signet of renewal and Healing Spring and you can have an extremely effective support build.
I do agree that they are a bit underpowered at the moment and not viable in tPvP, but a smart ranger in WvWvW with spirits is insane. Spirits are also great in several dungeons.
Just because spirits are bad in certain situations doesn’t make them completely terrible.
Don’t know whether you guys have noticed such a phenomenon (at least works for me when I tried spirit build): Spirits can significantly increase the survivability especially while you escaping. Simply becoz those spirits will stay in a row behind you therefore blocks a lot damage from behind….
what he siad.
this in pve. i’ve noticed a difference in the amount of time it takes to bring down a boss as well as how fewer times people need reviving. (this is just from my seat though no hard numbers to back it up).
Don’t know whether you guys have noticed such a phenomenon (at least works for me when I tried spirit build): Spirits can significantly increase the survivability especially while you escaping. Simply becoz those spirits will stay in a row behind you therefore blocks a lot damage from behind….
a viable technique using spirits is using them as damage soaks….that proves how useless there actual function is. if spirits were viable you would be mad as heck if someone killed them. which is why they just arent useful, if a person kills a spirit its no big deal.