Guild Wars 2

As unused as spirits were before the recent patch, now they’re a joke.
Useless. Absolutely useless.
It’s changes like these that make we wonder if Anet actually plays their own game.
It’s heartbreaking.

Anet does play their own game. They just don’t play Ranger.

It’s also funny how the devs kept saying how they wanted to improve spirits and ended up making them even more useless than shouts. Do we even have a dedicated ranger Dev? Give us Robert Gee please, necros and mesmers are so good now.

Mesmer was totally overbuffed. Either they change it back, or, yes, let him overbuff all the classes.

I expect a GM trait from him that makes projectiles unblockable for example.

I have to agree, I was hoping to have the ability to run spirit builds in WvW after the patch, but now it seems like the entire set of spirit skills is almost useless. The only time i can really picture using them is in PvE and even then its only frost spirit.

Honnestly, they should change “Nature’s revenge” so that equiping a spirit give an aura with the effect of the spirit to the ranger’s pet. Active effect would happened at the pet’s position.

Pro :
- The spirit’s would become ok
- Rangers would actually use the active effect while it’s really rare atm.
- This change would fit their strong idea that the ranger must rely on it’s pet.

Cons :
- They will still be useless in fight where pets are instant dead.

Just give them a 10,000 passive range. That is what it would take if they persist with non-movement.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Just give them a 10,000 passive range. That is what it would take if they persist with non-movement.

Effect recharge: 10 sec …?
Active Effect Cast Time = 4sec …??
Damage Scaling with traits/stats NO…. ?!?

many problems with the spirits but the range is the least of them well that is for the normal ones.

> Spirit of Nature (“elite”)
Passive Radius: xXX*240*XXx

In order to work must:

A] Stay alive in the middle of a point with puny health
B] You being so close to it that you literally have to clip with its model to get the effect off, another excellent strategy to improve synergy with the team support and his survival chances as he’ll get cleaved/aoe’d to death.

If those 2 requirement miraculously works you should get an incredible bonus for your whole team right? wait…

Untraited
Applies to allies a “strong” healing effect that has the great idea of, like all other spirits except sun, not to scale with the ranger’s stats.
Traited
-Also applies 1 stack of stability in a 240 radius every 3 second for 1 second…

So rampage , strength of the pack, plague, all recharge 3 stability stacks every 3 seconds Okay because it affects the whole team it should be toned down but this? 1 stack of 1sec every 3 sec? leaving you 2 sec without and only 1 stack reallyy?? wtf??
1 stack of 3 sec every 3 sec in a radius of 600 sounds like more reasonable for a 120s recharge elite that does absolutely nothing except giving a additional regen.
Eventually it could also remove 1 condition per sec in the same radius.
And the active effect could heal and remove conditions on non-downed player as well.
AND SCALE WITH HEALING POWER

#Anet #updatedsunonly #naturevengeancesucks #nokittengiven

I honestly think that spirits would be better if the `active` click was removed altogether, allowing the spirit to start recharging straight away.

The current `active` would cast immediatley when you’ve place the spirit, triggering the recharge to begin. Then, after what was originally the `active` has completed, the `passive` effects would occur for the remainder of the spirits lifetime. I.E. one click per spirit rather than two.

This would keep the on-demand nature of the `active` skill (just moving it to the first click), and more importantly, would allow us to have multiple copies of the same spirit up at the same time (3 or 4 depending on trait). This would essentially allow us to reposition spirits if we move away from them, no more waiting 20s between spirits, or to stack the benefits.

It would probably require the passive effects to be reduced to a 25% chance, but with three spirits up that would mean 3 rolls of a 1 in 4, rather than 1 roll of a 3 in 4. Mathematically that works out to be slightly reduced odds over all, but with the chance of getting multiple procs of the passive on a single hit, which I think makes up for it.

e.g.

Sun Spirit is currently this

click (summon sun spirit 1)
gain passive effects of sun spirit
wait up to 60s
click
cast solar flare
sun spirit 1 dies
20s cooldown
click (summon sun spirit 2)
gain passive effects of sun spirit
wait up to 60s
click
cast solar flare
sun spirit 2 dies
20s cooldown

instead it would be more like this

click (summon sun spirit 1)
cast solar flare
gain passive effects of sun spirit
20s cooldown
click (summon sun spirit 2)
cast solar flare
gain passive effects of sun spirit
20s cooldown
click (summon sun spirit 3)
cast solar flare
gain passive effects of sun spirit
20s cooldown
sun spirit 1 dies

Nature’s Vengeance changes everything. This is an elite that really flips the tide of battle! One third of one stack of might per second is just, wow. Pop this sucker and your opponents will have to turn and run or stay and smash your face into the ground.

Archon.6480:

Nature’s Vengeance changes everything. This is an elite that really flips the tide of battle! One third of one stack of might per second is just, wow. Pop this sucker and your opponents will have to turn and run or stay and smash your face into the ground.

Not sure if you mean it or if you’re really sarcastic. XD

Either way, I hate the way they’re limiting players. Traits like moving spirits are the kind of traits that would make the game more interesting. Meanwhile they’re being removed. =(

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Just give them a 10,000 passive range. That is what it would take if they persist with non-movement.

And a total climate change aswell just call in Fire/sand/ice storm

I’d rather see spirits removed entirely and replaced with something active (without nerfing the PvE contributions). I doubt Anet takes such a drastic step though, but now we’re stuck with a relatively useless trait and utility line.

I agree, but decided to revise your post to be more, um… succinct. What do you think?

Fluffball.8307:

I’d rather see spirits removed entirely and replaced with something active (without nerfing the PvE contributions). I doubt Anet takes such a drastic step though, but now we’re stuck with a relatively absolutely, completely, utterly unequivocal useless trait and utility line.

: )

Edit: ItIsFinished did come up with a burning build using sun spirit I thought was downright cool. Spirits aren’t TOTALLY useless.

Well, I wouldn’t say totally. If your objective is to waste skill slots and not contribute to the match in a meaningful way, well, they are perfect!

I meant to say AREN’T totally useless, I think his build was quite viable in a fun way. Not at the tournament level of course, but he’s a better PvPer than me and knows that already.

Change storm spirit’s proc to apply 5 stacks of vulnerability per proc for 7-10 seconds, or make it award 3 seconds of quickness. Swiftness is worthless in any pve environment and its value is greatly diminished in combat.

Revert the stupid change that using the spirit’s active kills them, you’d have to make the actives far stronger to justify killing your passive procs.

Change earth spirit to provide aegis on its active. Add vigor on top of its protection to the passive proc.

Change water spirit so its heal proc can only proc when health is not full/above 90%, and make the passive and active remove/transfer conditions on proc. Or add to the proc some vigor.

Change fire spirit’s passive to also provide fury on the passive proc. Change the active to make it so it’s a 4-5 second duration blind field like thief’s black powder, and make it grant the group 5 stacks of might on use.

Make spirits invulnerable or immune to aoe, and allow the ranger to reposition them like engineers and warriors can reposition their turrets/banners.

Earth or Wind spirit’s active should be a stunbreak, the spirit utilities are also underpowered because neither of them is a condition removal or stunbreak skill, and everyone needs one of each at least in pvp.

Nature’s Vengeance is bad. Increase the pulse interval to 5-6 seconds and make the pulsed buffs 3 seconds duration. For fire spirit up the might to 5 stacks, for water spirit make it pulse 5-6 seconds of regen. For wind spirit make it pulse slow on the nearby targets. For earth spirit make it pulse resistance for 1-2 seconds.

If you stand completely still they’re not useless. :/
Anet doesn’t know what they’re doing when it comes to rangers.

Oh, just saw this thread about spirits while I was posting this in another thread, just putting it here for discussion I guess.

My Suggestion would be for them to stay how they work now, make them something that cant be targeted (like banners) and keep the self destruct on active use but maybe add like a combo field or blast finisher to their actual death.
E.g. Water spirit – Water field, Frost – Ice, Storm – Lightning, Sun – Fire, Stone – smoke/dark (or even a muddy terrain)?, Nature – light. 2-3 sec fields for heal and utilities, 5 secs for elite.
After that, just adjust their effects (and trait effects) accordingly. At least that is how I would adjust it if they keep the spirits stationary as they are now.

Kaz.5430:

I honestly think that spirits would be better if the `active` click was removed altogether, allowing the spirit to start recharging straight away.

The current `active` would cast immediatley when you’ve place the spirit, triggering the recharge to begin. Then, after what was originally the `active` has completed, the `passive` effects would occur for the remainder of the spirits lifetime. I.E. one click per spirit rather than two.

This would keep the on-demand nature of the `active` skill (just moving it to the first click), and more importantly, would allow us to have multiple copies of the same spirit up at the same time (3 or 4 depending on trait). This would essentially allow us to reposition spirits if we move away from them, no more waiting 20s between spirits, or to stack the benefits.

It would probably require the passive effects to be reduced to a 25% chance, but with three spirits up that would mean 3 rolls of a 1 in 4, rather than 1 roll of a 3 in 4. Mathematically that works out to be slightly reduced odds over all, but with the chance of getting multiple procs of the passive on a single hit, which I think makes up for it.

e.g.

Sun Spirit is currently this

click (summon sun spirit 1)
gain passive effects of sun spirit
wait up to 60s
click
cast solar flare
sun spirit 1 dies
20s cooldown
click (summon sun spirit 2)
gain passive effects of sun spirit
wait up to 60s
click
cast solar flare
sun spirit 2 dies
20s cooldown

instead it would be more like this

click (summon sun spirit 1)
cast solar flare
gain passive effects of sun spirit
20s cooldown
click (summon sun spirit 2)
cast solar flare
gain passive effects of sun spirit
20s cooldown
click (summon sun spirit 3)
cast solar flare
gain passive effects of sun spirit
20s cooldown
sun spirit 1 dies

So essentially the cooldown would begin immediately on use and the active would no longer destroy the spirit?

That’d be awesome given that they cannot move anymore. As far as life span, I think that’s probably the best move because simply increasing their life isn’t going to help it survive a zerg.

Still they need a overhaul as far as passive effects go. Not only the range should be heavily increased (2,000 at the least) they should get away from boons/conditions with an ICD. Not only do they last a very short time but you can’t expect everyone to benefit from them the same way. IMO the spirit passives should be changed to a consistent buff like banners but give htem their unique flavors to stand out like;

-Earth: Reduce incoming disable durations by 35%
-Ice: Same.
-Air: Increase projectile speed by 50%
-Sun: Reduce incoming condition duration by 35%.
-Water: Increase healing effects by 25% + current heal on hit. Reduce ICD to 5 seconds.
-Nature: Same passive, reduce cooldown to 120 seconds.

Of course the values aren’t tested nor do I consider them balanced but at least their effects would be unique and consistent rather than occasional and hardly noticeable.

Why was Elite Spirt nerfed? I want to know why.

I think there’s only two ways to go with Ranger Spirits;

1) Remove them entirely, tweak/add/buff other existing traits accordingly
2) Make them something else; upon ‘activation’ the currently equipped Ranger skill sets change! – If bows – ice bow skill set! If axe, a new skill set like voracious vines etc. – ***no need to visibly see the spirits

I’m using sun Spirit in pvp.
SpikeTrap+FireTrap+SunSpirit for Condi point holder are really awesome, but you lack stunbrakes then.

In team fights it’s help allot if you play with CeleNecro and condi/cele ele.

I have the hope that they decided that Spirits would fit the Druid so well that they reintroduce improved spirits for the druid class. If they don’t they failed really hard cause spirits as they are now are not even worth talking about.

Spirits are actually pretty kitten good at the moment, you just have to place them intelligently now…

Also, it seems no one else has noticed this, but when your spirit dies it continues to pulse its passive buff (not just the buff lingering, it will flat out refresh it and grant it to people) as long as the spirits “corpse” is still around, which is about another 10s after you activate it.

This effectively makes it so spirits only have a 10s CD not a 20s CD, this has been around since beta, and it’s amazed me no ones mentioned this…

Durzlla.6295:

This effectively makes it so spirits only have a 10s CD not a 20s CD, this has been around since beta, and it’s amazed me no ones mentioned this…

I know it. Because i’m pointholder in our team

Durzlla.6295:

Spirits are actually pretty kitten good at the moment, you just have to place them intelligently now…

Also, it seems no one else has noticed this, but when your spirit dies it continues to pulse its passive buff (not just the buff lingering, it will flat out refresh it and grant it to people) as long as the spirits “corpse” is still around, which is about another 10s after you activate it.

This effectively makes it so spirits only have a 10s CD not a 20s CD, this has been around since beta, and it’s amazed me no ones mentioned this…

Really? That’s the first time I hear this. Then they’re not as bad as I thought. They’re a bit closer to banners then.

Holland.9351:

Durzlla.6295:

Spirits are actually pretty kitten good at the moment, you just have to place them intelligently now…

Also, it seems no one else has noticed this, but when your spirit dies it continues to pulse its passive buff (not just the buff lingering, it will flat out refresh it and grant it to people) as long as the spirits “corpse” is still around, which is about another 10s after you activate it.

This effectively makes it so spirits only have a 10s CD not a 20s CD, this has been around since beta, and it’s amazed me no ones mentioned this…

Really? That’s the first time I hear this. Then they’re not as bad as I thought. They’re a bit closer to banners then.

yeah this has been the case for a looooooooong time now, i’ve reported as a bug several months ago and nothing has been done about it, or mentioned about it… so idk if it’s actually working as intended or not.

Up to remind for needed update on Spirit skills^^

Spirits should have 360 range baseline and traited +66%, so that traited range gets up to 600. In that case you can much better use and tactically position them…

A few tweaks to the buffs should also be done^^, but there are many good suggestions for it in other threads

Kydar Schattendolch.6879:

Up to remind for needed update on Spirit skills^^

Spirits should have 360 range baseline and traited +66%, so that traited range gets up to 600. In that case you can much better use and tactically position them…

A few tweaks to the buffs should also be done^^, but there are many good suggestions for it in other threads

I can’t check now, but I thought the passive was 1000 and the active 240 or 360. Those numbers seem reasonable to me.

Ya, I know, bur 240/360 (traited) is not that much, for the amount of health of the Spirits and the fact, that they can be cc’d and aoe’d^^

Just sayin, if you use em for the passive boons, 2 rangers can = perms prot and/or perma stab. Just got to put spirits in unusual spots near your team.

Durzlla.6295:

Spirits are actually pretty kitten good at the moment, you just have to place them intelligently now…

Also, it seems no one else has noticed this, but when your spirit dies it continues to pulse its passive buff (not just the buff lingering, it will flat out refresh it and grant it to people) as long as the spirits “corpse” is still around, which is about another 10s after you activate it.

This effectively makes it so spirits only have a 10s CD not a 20s CD, this has been around since beta, and it’s amazed me no ones mentioned this…

Wow. This is news to me. That would essentially make them like signets with different buffs. I will have to experiment with this as soon as I get home
My concern use to be that they die so easily. If the effect remains for 10 seconds then that might not be so bad. And, it’s even better if you place them “intelligently”.
The one thing I really do hate is that the active skill doesnt auto-activate when they die.
Good stuff though.

Spirits should be changed to a coat that envelopes the pet. That way we don’t have an issue with “the petting zoo” and immobile buffs.

Karnac.2574:

Durzlla.6295:

Spirits are actually pretty kitten good at the moment, you just have to place them intelligently now…

Also, it seems no one else has noticed this, but when your spirit dies it continues to pulse its passive buff (not just the buff lingering, it will flat out refresh it and grant it to people) as long as the spirits “corpse” is still around, which is about another 10s after you activate it.

This effectively makes it so spirits only have a 10s CD not a 20s CD, this has been around since beta, and it’s amazed me no ones mentioned this…

Wow. This is news to me. That would essentially make them like signets with different buffs. I will have to experiment with this as soon as I get home
My concern use to be that they die so easily. If the effect remains for 10 seconds then that might not be so bad. And, it’s even better if you place them “intelligently”.
The one thing I really do hate is that the active skill doesnt auto-activate when they die.
Good stuff though.

I can not even begin to explain how upset i was that part of the trait was removed lol, i normally frantically spam the active ability though when i see people closing in to kill my spirits though just to punish them for doing so, i figure it’s better than letting it die in vain.

Yeah, that was a really silly part of the trait to remove and I just cannot understand why they would do it, truly makes no sense. At least people were punished for killing them in melee.

Tofer.8096:

What if they let us heal our spirits?

Nope. Spirits crushed.

you can heal your spirits… your water spirit will pulse regen onto them if there’s no other players in the area, the elite spirit will heal spirits, the water spirit active will heal spirits, fernhound will heal spirits etc.

I generally only used frost spirit, and I feel like I actually get better uptime now since I can pop it when a fight is over and have it ready for the next, as opposed to having it follow me as we skip a bunch of trash and go on cool down right as we start fighting again. I also love that you no longer have to waste traits to make them useful.

That said, I do miss activation on death. Wouldn’t mind an increase to active range either, since when is something in range of active, except when it is killing the spirit? As it stands, I view the active abilities only as an off switch to reset the cool down.

Jermoe Morrow.9501:

I generally only used frost spirit, and I feel like I actually get better uptime now since I can pop it when a fight is over and have it ready for the next, as opposed to having it follow me as we skip a bunch of trash and go on cool down right as we start fighting again. I also love that you no longer have to waste traits to make them useful.

That said, I do miss activation on death. Wouldn’t mind an increase to active range either, since when is something in range of active, except when it is killing the spirit? As it stands, I view the active abilities only as an off switch to reset the cool down.

Oh I didn’t even think to mention how amazing it is to ALWAYS have my spirit when the fights starting, previously my spirit would still be at whatever point I was at or if I actually ran spirits unbound it’d follow me and die the moment the fight started and just be useless.

And I would literally kill to get a trait to make it so my spirits activation effect was ground targeted within the radius of the passive effect.

I think that might undermine the point of them.

I think you’re supposed to feel pressure to put them close enough for actives vs. the farther away to protect their healthbar. And, for the most part, the shorter cooldowns and actives-as-dismiss go a long way to making that decision more approachable. The gameplay is in a much better place now.

My grief is that they feel a bit spreadsheet-y.
Like, I’m sure 1 second of might and some chill parses out as valuable on an excel spreadsheet somewhere. But as a normal everyday humanperson; the gameplay only really works if I cross my fingers, close my eyes, and say “I’m sure this is helping somebody……probably….”

Vox Hollow.2736:

I think that might undermine the point of them.

I think you’re supposed to feel pressure to put them close enough for actives vs. the farther away to protect their healthbar. And, for the most part, the shorter cooldowns and actives-as-dismiss go a long way to making that decision more approachable. The gameplay is in a much better place now.

My grief is that they feel a bit spreadsheet-y.
Like, I’m sure 1 second of might and some chill parses out as valuable on an excel spreadsheet somewhere. But as a normal everyday humanperson; the gameplay only really works if I cross my fingers, close my eyes, and say “I’m sure this is helping somebody……probably….”

I still think that frost spirit is the most boring/worst of them all… Not to mention 1s of 1 stack of might seems beyond useless to me…

IKR, what were they thinking when they typed in that boon duration for Might? I actually would love to know the reasoning behind that. It should be Fury.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

IKR, what were they thinking when they typed in that boon duration for Might? I actually would love to know the reasoning behind that. It should be Fury.

It should be anything but 1 stack of 1s might lol

Durzlla.6295:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

IKR, what were they thinking when they typed in that boon duration for Might? I actually would love to know the reasoning behind that. It should be Fury.

It should be anything but 1 stack of 1s might lol

Yeah, its seriously the absolutely worst effect of any trait in the game. You need a utility skill and a GM trait to gain the “advantage” and it is, on average, an increase of 10 power and condition damage… So, 0.5 damage per second added to a bleed stack or 0.07% more damage on RF haha!

W . T . F?

Ranger Class master have to finish basic school for better math.

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/10/1048ebb89eb3caee3fdbeb6473109e228b4574554990c04c402456fad714b160.jpg

Rizo.9534:

Ranger Class master have to finish basic school for better math.

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/10/1048ebb89eb3caee3fdbeb6473109e228b4574554990c04c402456fad714b160.jpg

Is that supposed to be a sentence? And, is it directed at me because I made a typo and left out a 0? I don’t get it.

I was thinking what if they destroyed our current spirit trait line to involve them into the Druid elite spec trait line?

gaborkaldy.3210:

I was thinking what if they destroyed our current spirit trait line to involve them into the Druid elite spec trait line?

That or to not step on the shiny new class.

Jermoe Morrow.9501:

I generally only used frost spirit, and I feel like I actually get better uptime now since I can pop it when a fight is over and have it ready for the next, as opposed to having it follow me as we skip a bunch of trash and go on cool down right as we start fighting again. I also love that you no longer have to waste traits to make them useful.

You don’t realize that you could easily just kill it off by switching out the spirit for another utility and then put it back on your skillbar?

The uptime is the same as it always was.