Guild Wars 2

So far there is so little you can do with spirits because they are stationary unless traited. There are so few builds that are possible for this.

You might as well not put a spirit on your bar if you don’t have any traits towards them.

I would like to make a power, precision, condition build that involves sun spirit , but I don’t want to waste additional stats and traits just so I can have the darn thing moving.

The spirits resemble oak hearts which move naturally. You could just let them move at slower speed , and then have a trait where it increases movement speed of them.

Agreed.

Anet got it backwards. Spirits should move untraited and you should be able to command them to stop in specific locations while traited.

The reason being if you run the spirit line you’ll have to take at least 2 spirits to make it worth your while; you’re forgoing a lot of utilities and you are expected to use the secondary effects to compensate. They should operate like quasi traps so you can position them accordingly and have the option to stop and go.

And spirits are worthless if you don’t trait into them as some people only want to take one to buff allies, so the lack of mobility deters people from using them, which hampers build diversity.

I’d rather they didn’t.

Maybe you people sit at range all day… but I prefer melee and the LAST place I want that squishy little spirit is right next to me getting cleaved while I’m tanking or evading the Boss. EDIT: Yeah okay if they skill split them to be immune to AoE’s/Cleaving in PvE (which miiiiight still be sorta balanced in WvW too), then yeah, go ahead and have them follow me I guess… but that’s a big IF for a class that Anet seems to be ignoring as hard as this one is being ignored.

ilr.9675:

I’d rather they didn’t.

Maybe you people sit at range all day… but I prefer melee and the LAST place I want that squishy little spirit is right next to me getting cleaved while I’m tanking or evading the Boss.

I’m a longbow user myself, but whenever i go into melee i sure as hell don’t want my spirits to follow me…

I’d rather them make it so that spirits actives are ground target effects, because that’s pretty much the only reason people want them to move anyway…

I don’t think so. I understand spririt summoners over 250 years would have learned to have their spirits move with them, but that kind of makes spirits less interesting. Sure, spirits can’t be turrets anymore because engi has those, but having them be passive minions doesn’t make all that much sense either.

Primarily, I just like having the utility of being able to position spirits in “safe” spots and spirits unbound is an example of a well designed trait, it’s unfortunate that it can’t really be anything below grandmaster.

I really like being able to plant them instead of have them follow me around. They just die way to easy if you have them following you around.

Laiboch.4380:

I really like being able to plant them instead of have them follow me around. They just die way to easy if you have them following you around.

If you trait for more health and run AoE regen they become tanky little kittens, but if you want to run spirits WITHOUT trait investment I fully agree, and I’ve included sun spirit in SEVERAL builds without boosting it and it works fine.

Granted, as you are stating it’s a 100% different play style, you need to hide them and keep them out of sight or out of danger instead of being able to take them into the fray.

The best thing Anet could really do with Spirit ranger is remove the spirit. I do not mean the ability, but the actual little tree spirit that is summoned. Instead make It like an Attunement. Lets Say the ranger takes the 10 point trait to improve spirits. Instead of having to summon a little tree every 60 seconds that lasts 60 seconds… The ranger Channels the force of said spirit through themselves. Making them kind of a banner so to speak. So should a ranger take Frost and Earth spirits the ranger and everyone with in range would receive the benefit of the Ranger’s attunements. They could still use the active ability on the same 30 second timer, but would no longer have a herd of little tree’s following them everywhere they go. Its all about synergy. Bringing something to groups and the ability to play with the same effectiveness as other classes with out having more conditions placed on them for equal performance.

Rangers have a lot of checks in place limiting what they can and cannot do. In all honesty more than most other classes. They have a check in place on damage having to micro manage their pet to keep it alive to keep their damage on par with other classes that simply do not have to worry about those things. Unlike Warrior Banners Ranger spirits can be killed. Why? Why is the Ranger the poster child for 2 steps forward 3 steps back? They cannot trait into their elite skills.

I am not saying rangers cannot be effective as a class. There are several people that have proven that, but what I am saying is that it takes way way more work to be almost as effective as other classes that do not have to invest nearly the resources into being effective.
Anet should also give Rangers the option of being a pet or non pet class. It would be incredibly simple. Simply make pets a 10 point trait in the BM line. Problem solved. Not everyone wants to micro manage a pet. So a player who wants and plays with a pet would get the benefits of having said pet, and a player who does not want the pet would get the benefit of being a “Lone Wolf” receiving a damage increase to bring them on par with the Damage they are supposed to have with the pet. With how much the pet misses a simple 15% damage buff would probably be more than sufficient.

Of all the classes the Ranger seems to be the most pigeon holed class.With its role being defined for the player rather than being defined by the players. The point behind having skill points and skill tree’s is to allow the player to create their own niche. Their own play style. Anet seems to release classes with out the intent of letting players create their own builds, but sill having the illusion of that freedom. One has only to look at the current meta to see that in action.

Laiboch.4380:

The best thing Anet could really do with Spirit ranger is remove the spirit. I do not mean the ability, but the actual little tree spirit that is summoned. Instead make It like an Attunement. Lets Say the ranger takes the 10 point trait to improve spirits. Instead of having to summon a little tree every 60 seconds that lasts 60 seconds… The ranger Channels the force of said spirit through themselves. Making them kind of a banner so to speak. So should a ranger take Frost and Earth spirits the ranger and everyone with in range would receive the benefit of the Ranger’s attunements. They could still use the active ability on the same 30 second timer, but would no longer have a herd of little tree’s following them everywhere they go. Its all about synergy. Bringing something to groups and the ability to play with the same effectiveness as other classes with out having more conditions placed on them for equal performance.

Rangers have a lot of checks in place limiting what they can and cannot do. In all honesty more than most other classes. They have a check in place on damage having to micro manage their pet to keep it alive to keep their damage on par with other classes that simply do not have to worry about those things. Unlike Warrior Banners Ranger spirits can be killed. Why? Why is the Ranger the poster child for 2 steps forward 3 steps back? They cannot trait into their elite skills.

I am not saying rangers cannot be effective as a class. There are several people that have proven that, but what I am saying is that it takes way way more work to be almost as effective as other classes that do not have to invest nearly the resources into being effective.
Anet should also give Rangers the option of being a pet or non pet class. It would be incredibly simple. Simply make pets a 10 point trait in the BM line. Problem solved. Not everyone wants to micro manage a pet. So a player who wants and plays with a pet would get the benefits of having said pet, and a player who does not want the pet would get the benefit of being a “Lone Wolf” receiving a damage increase to bring them on par with the Damage they are supposed to have with the pet. With how much the pet misses a simple 15% damage buff would probably be more than sufficient.

Of all the classes the Ranger seems to be the most pigeon holed class.With its role being defined for the player rather than being defined by the players. The point behind having skill points and skill tree’s is to allow the player to create their own niche. Their own play style. Anet seems to release classes with out the intent of letting players create their own builds, but sill having the illusion of that freedom. One has only to look at the current meta to see that in action.

I agree with you 100% on the spirit part, but not on the pets. I actually used to say the SAME EXACT thing you just said about pet but ive changed my mind over the months. A Ranger without the Pet system is just a thief without the stealth and half the damage. The Pet what keeps people moving. Honestly, the Ranger has improved leaps and bounds since release. At launch people didnt bother with anything other than sb/lb, now I see Rangers (myself included) take down guardians with a greatsword. Our pets are a great bonus. They are annoying to micro manage, but if you dont want that than play another class. <—- I HATE saying that, but in this instance its true.

Azure.8670:

I agree with you 100% on the spirit part, but not on the pets. I actually used to say the SAME EXACT thing you just said about pet but ive changed my mind over the months. A Ranger without the Pet system is just a thief without the stealth and half the damage. The Pet what keeps people moving. Honestly, the Ranger has improved leaps and bounds since release. At launch people didnt bother with anything other than sb/lb, now I see Rangers (myself included) take down guardians with a greatsword. Our pets are a great bonus. They are annoying to micro manage, but if you dont want that than play another class. <—- I HATE saying that, but in this instance its true.

I would strongly disagree with you on a ranger with out a pet is a thief with out stealth. Very different play styles. I play Ranger, Thief, Guardian and Warrior. In PVE, WVW and Spvp.

I Agree pets can be an asset, but they are also used to justify lack of action on many of the issues with in the class. There are many mechanics that really need worked on, and these issues have been beaten into the ground dozens of times so I will not go into them now.

I have seen and run the GS build for rangers. What it is really good at is catching people by surprise. They don’t expect a ranger to get in their face, but as far as rolling Guardians that is a bit of a surprise. The reason I say this is I have never had a GS ranger do more than 2K top end to my guard. One symbol heals me for 1.6K and does about the same amount of damage. Auto attack hits for about 900-1.2K and heals me for another 1,200. Every time I use a Meditation I heal for another 2600. And my Heal hits for almost 10K. In other words I heal faster than you can hit. It might work against a glass cannon Guard, but I find it difficult to believe against a bunker. Now with a SB you have a much better chance, but If you are talking about a power/crit GS build then better hope you are not up against a bunker.

There are many traits that really need to be reworked and moved around, and while I do not feel that Rangers are alone in this boat It is one of the classes I do play and so it is very much something I am aware of.

Here is my argument. Why should a player be forced into a play style because of the pet? On my warrior I can run power/crit, Condi/CC, bunker, bunker/condi, Shout or banner builds or CC/power builds and they are all viable. Ranger has?

On my Thief I can run high DPS/ Survival/condi/ranged and still pull better numbers with better burst than on my ranger with out having to micro manage anything.

So why should so many builds be really handicapped by a very choppy AI? Pet and mobs tracking/AI in the game are shall we say for lack of a more polite way of putting it.. Not on par with the industry.

Are there ways to fix it? Absolutely. They could start by making little changes such as changing melee range on pets to compensate for movement, and reducing the animation time on attacks. Increasing base HP on the pet especially now that they are not designed to hold agro, and several other small changes that would make it really worth having. If my damage is heavily based on the pet then it should not simply be one AOE from death all the time.

If they are not going to fix the issues with the pet at least give players an OPTION to not use it. I am not saying take it away, but if you gave players the option of a flat over all damage increase or keeping the pet as it is now. I think Anet would be surprised at how many rangers would be running around with out one.

What I am talking about would let you play with your pet. It would let people who do not want to micromanage their pet the freedom to play with out one, and in the end give more players a more satisfying gaming experience.

What is wrong with that?

spirits should just be an aura that radiates from the ranger.

if they want to keep the “spirit” itself, it can follow the ranger around and rotate its color to signify what aura the ranger is running.

expanding on the idea that the spirit should become an aura, if it was changed so that the talent allowed the ranger to perhaps transform into the spirit itself, that might be pretty neat.

Lets say the ranger puts the thirty points into nature so he has the unbound spirit trait, he activates his elite skill “Spirit of Nature”, for 60 seconds he become the spirit. Totally mobile, he can revert back to normal early if he so chooses (but of course blows his cool down). He radiates a healing aura and has a skill set centered around healing or buffing those nearby and naturally his signature move is “Nature’s renewal” to heal downed players. Wouldn’t be too far of a stretch considering the engineer’s Elixir X or Warrior’s Rampage ability.

In PvE when you are blasting through mobs on your way getting somewhere with your favorite type of build it is kind of annoying having to wait for your spirit to die or recharge just so you can cast it further up ahead to the next bunch of mobs to kill.
That is one reason I would like spirits to be changed to follow untraited.

There are just some support dps ranged builds I would like to see but can’t because you are forced to go down that spirit trait line and sacrifice combat efficiency.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

In PvE when you are blasting through mobs on your way getting somewhere with your favorite type of build it is kind of annoying having to wait for your spirit to die or recharge just so you can cast it further up ahead to the next bunch of mobs to kill.
That is one reason I would like spirits to be changed to follow untraited.

There are just some support dps ranged builds I would like to see but can’t because you are forced to go down that spirit trait line and sacrifice combat efficiency.

Just cast your spirit like you would in GW1 IE: you’ll be spending a lot of time there, or the pull is going to be tough. If you’re not built into spirits you should be using them more like a utility skill and less like a minion, IE: “I need some protection/Immob/Cripple!” So you throw down the stone spirit.

ilr.9675:

I’d rather they didn’t.

Maybe you people sit at range all day… but I prefer melee and the LAST place I want that squishy little spirit is right next to me getting cleaved while I’m tanking or evading the Boss. EDIT: Yeah okay if they skill split them to be immune to AoE’s/Cleaving in PvE (which miiiiight still be sorta balanced in WvW too), then yeah, go ahead and have them follow me I guess… but that’s a big IF for a class that Anet seems to be ignoring as hard as this one is being ignored.

Or they could make spirirts stay at ranged distance, Mindblowing I know.

Durzlla.6295:

Just cast your spirit like you would in GW1 IE: you’ll be spending a lot of time there, or the pull is going to be tough. If you’re not built into spirits you should be using them more like a utility skill and less like a minion, IE: “I need some protection/Immob/Cripple!” So you throw down the stone spirit.

The range of a spirit’s passive effect in GW1 was huge – its radius was about twice the max range of a bow. You could plop one down and break an entire NPC camp while staying in range of the spirit’s effect.

That’s really what they need to do with GW2 spirits. Right now you have to stand near them just like banners, except they can be killed and can’t be moved (unless traited). While their effects are nice for groups, their current functionality is a joke.

I can only imagine my long ranger power sniper working if this were to be true. 1500 range burn+10% increased damage. Best of piece of cake to reposition if spirits could move.

As for spirits following you into melee. Who wants to melee when you can hit +10k burning barrages?.

Solandri.9640:

Durzlla.6295:

Just cast your spirit like you would in GW1 IE: you’ll be spending a lot of time there, or the pull is going to be tough. If you’re not built into spirits you should be using them more like a utility skill and less like a minion, IE: “I need some protection/Immob/Cripple!” So you throw down the stone spirit.

The range of a spirit’s passive effect in GW1 was huge – its radius was about twice the max range of a bow. You could plop one down and break an entire NPC camp while staying in range of the spirit’s effect.

That’s really what they need to do with GW2 spirits. Right now you have to stand near them just like banners, except they can be killed and can’t be moved (unless traited). While their effects are nice for groups, their current functionality is a joke.

Omg I know, I miss that…. They should make spirits passive 1500 by default, bam, problem solved lol

Agree and they should also ignore conditions because its a freaking spirit and spirits shouldn’t die from burning. Damage alone kills them so kitten fast even when fully traited, with condis, if some1 like engi with grenades focus them they’re all dead in 5 sec…

I have no issue with stationary vs mobile spirits. What I would love would be to have spirits just be invulnerable to damage. (think warrior banners).

Spirits should provide an area effect around themselves and the pet (with the right requirements). The spirit then would not need to be mobile.

Laiboch.4380:

I really like being able to plant them instead of have them follow me around. They just die way to easy if you have them following you around.

So blowing a grandmaster trait to make your spirits functionally worse is a good idea? The problem here is still spirit survivability. If spirits weren’t auto dead when traited to move it wouldn’t be as big of a problem to have them move, in fact, it might be a good idea.

Stashing a spirit behind a wall or around a corner before a fight isn’t my idea of compelling combat. They sold GW2 on active combat. The game is rapidly evolving into very static and boring combat and +% damage passive buffs from a stationary summon isn’t helping that.

Every ranger would become a sun spirit BM.

Just make the active ground target and teleport the spirit to the target location. No need for fancy movement. Also, moving spirits as default breas spirits for so many builds. A skill should be useful for as many builds as possible and traits should allow individualisation. Not the other way round.