Guild Wars 2

(From a PvP perspective)

I have some serious reservations about the coming balance patch, but none more so than the future of melee Rangers’ offhand weapons.

While OH axe can hit like a semi-trailer with Path of Scars, Whirling defense is far too situational due to it’s self-immobilize and the lackluster damage it deals, which kinda spoils the weapon IMO.

Offhand dagger is taking a considerable nerf in the next patch when applied to the context of a non-longbow power build.

As Stalker’s Strike stands now, the poison is nice to counter a heal, and the damage is poor, but it really shines when paired with the Offhand Mastery trait, which makes it a nice short range gap-closer, which can make tactical use of poison to counter a heal, as opposed to a slow and predictable pirouette the skill is without it.

I fear that the new evolution of Offhand Mastery – Ambidexterity – will relegate offhand dagger to a strictly condition-based weapon, due to the removal of Stalker Strike’s range increase option, thus making the skill mediocre on any spec that does not stack condition damage to benefit from the physical poison damage.

This could have flow-on effects to sword’s viability in a PvP scenario, as the options for our offensive Offhand weapons are arguably fairly mediocre.

How many of you guys use Offhand Mastery, and who will miss the range increase come Tuesday?

Sure it is a nerf, but 100% uptime of poison from SS with OHT was pretty harsh.

I was hoping Stalker’s Strike range would become baseline. I really have a problem using it without Offhand Mastery but we’ll have to adapt I guess. The extra evade still makes it a competing pick against OH axe in power builds imo.

I agree that the poison uptime was pretty nuts, and I’m glad they toned that down. I just don’t understand why they would make Ambidexterity such a condition based trait and not carry over a great utility like the range increase. The 150 condition damage is completely wasted on power builds that want to run S/D with a CD reduction. (Which alot of Rangers prefer over greatsword in my experience)

I had hoped it would be made baseline also, seeing as almost every other longbow trait was made baseline, and that weapon is already is an extremely powerful place as is.

The range increase for crippling Talon is baseline now, Stalker’s Strike was a melee attack so not affected by OHT.

I can guarantee you that Stalker’s Strike is affected by OHT. It converts the skill from a spin on the spot to something roughly equivalent to a thief’s flanking strike.

The Crippling Talon baseline buff is good I guess though. Was that mentioned in the update post? I don’t recall.

I’m really hoping the SS range increase was made baseline. It would really spoil the weapon for me otherwise.

I feel the same about offhand axe, which in Grouch’s posted notes, has no trait at all (not even Honed Axes) that will increase the range of the skills or decrease their cool down. I understand the list is incomplete, but this all worries me.

I don’t really find it that harsh.

We got Quick Draw that will provide you with 2 evades instead of one. And for that – the range abuse might as well got tuned down.
I don’t see a problem with this change. Daggers will still be a viable choice for many builds – especially the ones that focus on evades. And you don’t need Ambidexterity if you intend to focus on power evade specs. Quick Draw will buff that role just fine.

Tragic Positive.9356:

I don’t really find it that harsh.

We got Quick Draw that will provide you with 2 evades instead of one. And for that – the range abuse might as well got tuned down.
I don’t see a problem with this change. Daggers will still be a viable choice for many builds – especially the ones that focus on evades. And you don’t need Ambidexterity if you intend to focus on power evade specs. Quick Draw will buff that role just fine.

Dagger #4 without range is just digusting for me. I mean it would be like flaking strike (thief sword #3) that say on place with an evade. Its just doesnt feel good… and in practice is lack luster.

Klonko.8341:

Tragic Positive.9356:

I don’t really find it that harsh.

We got Quick Draw that will provide you with 2 evades instead of one. And for that – the range abuse might as well got tuned down.
I don’t see a problem with this change. Daggers will still be a viable choice for many builds – especially the ones that focus on evades. And you don’t need Ambidexterity if you intend to focus on power evade specs. Quick Draw will buff that role just fine.

Dagger #4 without range is just digusting for me. I mean it would be like flaking strike (thief sword #3) that say on place with an evade. Its just doesnt feel good… and in practice is lack luster.

Well…
… I don’t see a thematic reason for Dagger to be a gap closer. I mean – I think sword should be the one to have some, but definitely not the dagger. Dagger is supposed to be the elusive/defensive dancing weapon that – in my personal opinion – fits just well.

Of course that’s just how I feel it and you guyz might have a different opinion. But even in real life historic weapon combat – dagger is never used as a weapon to charge at your enemy.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Well…
… I don’t see a thematic reason for Dagger to be a gap closer. I mean – I think sword should be the one to have some, but definitely not the dagger. Dagger is supposed to be the elusive/defensive dancing weapon that – in my personal opinion – fits just well.

Of course that’s just how I feel it and you guyz might have a different opinion. But even in real life historic weapon combat – dagger is never used as a weapon to charge at your enemy.

All our off-hand weapons were balanced around having a range/radius trait, so the thematic reasoning behind doesn’t really matter. And even if it did, it’s the ranger itself that “dances” around (which in my opinion is very fitting as far as thematics go), the skill itself is still just a simple stab.

Now, I expect the radius/range from off-hand training to be made baseline. Yeah, they haven’t actually stated this anywhere, but as I’ve mentioned several times, Call of the Wild had a 750 radius as opposed to 600 in the AMA livestream meaning they have at least looked at these skills in a scenario where off-hand training doesn’t exist. And as far as I know, all the increased trait skill in the game across all professions have been made baseline (except engie grenades, but they got the mortar kit to fullfill that role), that should be the case for the ranger aswell.

Just a shame that a dozen of threads in the ranger forums haven’t gotten their attention to actually adress this.

@Lazze
I definitely agree that this option of range increase of off-hand weapons should have at least be mentioned.

If I hate anything in game changes – it’s stealth nerfing. If I’m getting nerfed without any logical explanation – I just want to know why did developers decide that way. I’m even fine if they say they “didn’t find cool that abilities got an unintended effects such as <distance travelled…>”.
But saying nothing at all, nerfing it regardless of not being powerful while some mechanics such as the Dagger #4 distance travelled hindered our game-styles is not cool.

But it might be just another misstep just as the heals being classified. They might have just forgotten to mention they made some of the off hand skills (or all of them) baseline.

We’ll get our chance to complain once this gets confirmed.

Tragic Positive.9356:

I don’t really find it that harsh.

We got Quick Draw that will provide you with 2 evades instead of one. And for that – the range abuse might as well got tuned down.
I don’t see a problem with this change. Daggers will still be a viable choice for many builds – especially the ones that focus on evades. And you don’t need Ambidexterity if you intend to focus on power evade specs. Quick Draw will buff that role just fine.

Problem with that is I don’t want to run Quick Draw. I want to run LOYF, because my favorite unconventional build is zerk shortbow, which I am concerned is being indirectly nerfed by changes such this, and the WS line’s new condi centric focus.

If you assume everyone will be running Quick Draw your argument makes sense, but telling everyone to take a whole GM trait to compensate for dagger being unnecessarily pigeonholed (as far as we can tell) into the condition weapon bucket isn’t really a great workaround.

I never actually knew OHT affected Daggger #4!

So, after watching the preview streamers, range and radius from off-hand training doesn’t get rolled into baseline.

That totally sucks then because all of those skills need that increase!

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

That totally sucks then because all of those skills need that increase!

I will wait for the patch to release, and then create a new topic and ask Anet to adress this. And bump it until they do.

Some of our off-hand weapons should have had the range/radius baseline even before the patch (yeah, I’m thinking about the axe in particular, the #5 doesn’t even cover the ranger entirely without traiting for it).