Guild Wars 2

Durzlla.6295:

Can people stop saying “well my thief can do X damage in a burst!” Well no kittening kitten the prof ANET said, is the best bursting prof and they want to keep them best at burst, will deal better burst than us.

It’s like saying, “oh yeah? My necro is better at condi control than your <insert prof here>”

This is very important because it has been an undeniable fact in PvP, in any game, burst kills people better than sustained damage. That’s just a fact, and the burstiest classes tend to fair better than all other classes.

This is why these classes are nerfed big time for sPvP, and why they do so well in WvW because they’re not nerfed.

And a glass cannon Necromancer can outburst all classes but the Thief, for 30 seconds, every 180 seconds.

@JK I have no issues killing bursty profs with my ranger, granted I’m one of those people that builds to outlast which kinda counters burst…

Oh yeah, lich form is amazing.

Durzlla.6295:

@JK I have no issues killing bursty profs with my ranger, granted I’m one of those people that builds to outlast which kinda counters burst…

Oh yeah, lich form is amazing.

I can’t kill Lich Form before it kills me, I’d like to see a video of someone doing it.

Most of the time I just run away, and come back once it has run its course. I can kill burst builds all the time too, but I know a few players with burst builds that beat me virtually every time, and I have yet to see them lose a single fight at the fight clubs I attend.

There is a far cry difference in killing the average player, and a more practiced player. All things being equal, burst wins out most of the time, with a few exceptions of course. I think what helps with people like me playing burst, is I had to learn how to kill players, most importantly tanks, with healers backing them. Once you learn how to do that, this game, with zero healers makes killing, easy.

jkctmc.8754:

Durzlla.6295:

@JK I have no issues killing bursty profs with my ranger, granted I’m one of those people that builds to outlast which kinda counters burst…

Oh yeah, lich form is amazing.

I can’t kill Lich Form before it kills me, I’d like to see a video of someone doing it.

Most of the time I just run away, and come back once it has run its course. I can kill burst builds all the time too, but I know a few players with burst builds that beat me virtually every time, and I have yet to see them lose a single fight at the fight clubs I attend.

There is a far cry difference in killing the average player, and a more practiced player. All things being equal, burst wins out most of the time, with a few exceptions of course. I think what helps with people like me playing burst, is I had to learn how to kill players, most importantly tanks, with healers backing them. Once you learn how to do that, this game, with zero healers makes killing, easy.

Only way I’ve been able to go toe to toe with a lich form was by Moa Morphing it xD.

For burst I feel it’s A LOT easier to counter in this game though because of the dodge mechanic, you just have to watch for their burst and dodge (a hell of a lot easier said than done), but if you can get that done you’re in good shape, doesn’t matter how amazing the enemy is if you can dodge their entire damage output (threatening dmg output anyway).

PS: not saying you’ll win every time, you will certainly be on the same level though, I’ve noticed that its easier to dodge the skill they try to hold you down with that the burst itself. iE: dodge the leaping clone vs Mesmer/pistol shot.

jkctmc.8754:

Oberon Vex

You do know that at 1500 range, you don’t need to dodge arrows, and can still outrun them with 25% run speed, right?

In fact, you can still outrun the longbow down to 1100, with 25% runspeed.

Even after changes.

Ok. I give up trying to convince you. You are obviously too closed-minded to even consider the build’s merits. You don’t agree with me? That’s just fine. You run what you want to run, I’ll run this. Because it works extremely well for me.

Oberon Vex.1389:

jkctmc.8754:

Oberon Vex

You do know that at 1500 range, you don’t need to dodge arrows, and can still outrun them with 25% run speed, right?

In fact, you can still outrun the longbow down to 1100, with 25% runspeed.

Even after changes.

Ok. I give up trying to convince you. You are obviously too closed-minded to even consider the build’s merits. You don’t agree with me? That’s just fine. You run what you want to run, I’ll run this. Because it works extremely well for me.

It’s true though… If I have sig of hunt on and you’re shooting at me all I need to do is half kitten strafe back and forth and the aiming kittens up because when you fire the skill it tracks as if you’re going to keep going in the direction I was at that same speed, changing that will cause it to miss.

Arrows need another movement Speed increase if you ask me…

PS: as this entire forum should know by now I use LB A LOT.

Oberon Vex.1389:

jkctmc.8754:

Oberon Vex

You do know that at 1500 range, you don’t need to dodge arrows, and can still outrun them with 25% run speed, right?

In fact, you can still outrun the longbow down to 1100, with 25% runspeed.

Even after changes.

Ok. I give up trying to convince you. You are obviously too closed-minded to even consider the build’s merits. You don’t agree with me? That’s just fine. You run what you want to run, I’ll run this. Because it works extremely well for me.

It’s no biggie. Kill shot is also mind numbingly easy to dodge. As soon as I see a warrior getting ready for the “Kill Shot”, I can dodge it with my eyes closed…

In fact, Kill Shot has been nerfed a bit, so the video that was taken back in September is a terrible representation of what kill shot can do to date.

I do agree with Durzilla. I don’t know why people are bringing up other classes. The OP never said anything about his build putting out more DPS than other builds. People tend to get on there high horse and spew out one sided points.

But as a critque to your build, you do mention that it isn’t a glass cannon build. While its not a true glass cannon build, the difference is 4k health and around 250 Toughness which isn’t much.

I always love seeing warriors getting ready to kill shot when I’m on my staff ele, my Mesmer, my engi, or my ranger while using axe/axe… So essentially everything I play! Oh reflect how I LOVE you…

Durzlla.6295:

I always love seeing warriors getting ready to kill shot when I’m on my staff ele, my Mesmer, my engi, or my ranger while using axe/axe… So essentially everything I play! Oh reflect how I LOVE you…

I seriously think I chuckle everytime I see a warrior get on one knee….

Oberon Vex.1389:

@PsionicDingo:
The reason for Greatsword in this build is that you cannot realistically expect to never close to melee range and both bows are inferior to melee weapons in general while in melee range. Greatsword has an evade on auto attack, a block and a stun as well as a 1100 unit leap which you can use to either enter melee combat yourself, jump to safety or catch fleeing enemies. In addition maul does quite good damage with a power setup before you even factor the bleeds in. And yes I use Greatsword much as you use Sword/dagger: generally I will open with hunters/rapidfire then barrage. If the enemy is still at range I’ll poke away with auto’s but more often than not I’ll swap to Greatsword and close with swoop. Burn most of my 2-5 skills on Greatsword then swap back to LB, Point-Blank-Shot them away and start all over again with hunters/rapid.

Makes sense. I love the GS, too, I was just curious what your rationale was. I’ll give this build a whirl.

ItIsFinished.9462:

Durzlla.6295:

I always love seeing warriors getting ready to kill shot when I’m on my staff ele, my Mesmer, my engi, or my ranger while using axe/axe… So essentially everything I play! Oh reflect how I LOVE you…

I seriously think I chuckle everytime I see a warrior get on one knee….

This is why I kill shot people engaged with someone else, never anyone facing me. <winks>

Nerfed or not, I still hit regularly for over 20k, unless they’re insanely tanky, and it’s roughly 13k.

ItIsFinished.9462:

Durzlla.6295:

I always love seeing warriors getting ready to kill shot when I’m on my staff ele, my Mesmer, my engi, or my ranger while using axe/axe… So essentially everything I play! Oh reflect how I LOVE you…

I seriously think I chuckle everytime I see a warrior get on one knee….

My greatest warrior encounter ever was me reflecting his kill shot through him and his 4 glass canon team mates killing them all xD, it was glorious, thank you 30k crit =D!

jkctmc.8754:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Durzlla.6295:

I always love seeing warriors getting ready to kill shot when I’m on my staff ele, my Mesmer, my engi, or my ranger while using axe/axe… So essentially everything I play! Oh reflect how I LOVE you…

I seriously think I chuckle everytime I see a warrior get on one knee….

This is why I kill shot people engaged with someone else, never anyone facing me. <winks>

Nerfed or not, I still hit regularly for over 20k, unless they’re insanely tanky, and it’s roughly 13k.

I love kill shot because its one of those moves you need to use skillfully or you’ll never land it, I think the damage it does is more than justified seeing as how it may be the easiest player skill to avoid in the game…

Oberon Vex.1389:

Also, for anyone confused: this spec is not glass cannon, please stop referring to it as such :/

I would say it is, your armor with this is very low the only diffrence is it has more health but that extra 5k health or what it was makes practically no diffrence without higher armor because it will just fly off you as soon as you get hit, and also the tone is a little harsh in here but just look past that because there are some flaws with this setup that people point out, sometimes balancing some stats is a good thing and some traits probably should be shifted to make it more survivable.

Durzlla.6295:

Oberon Vex.1389:

jkctmc.8754:

Oberon Vex

You do know that at 1500 range, you don’t need to dodge arrows, and can still outrun them with 25% run speed, right?

In fact, you can still outrun the longbow down to 1100, with 25% runspeed.

Even after changes.

Ok. I give up trying to convince you. You are obviously too closed-minded to even consider the build’s merits. You don’t agree with me? That’s just fine. You run what you want to run, I’ll run this. Because it works extremely well for me.

It’s true though… If I have sig of hunt on and you’re shooting at me all I need to do is half kitten strafe back and forth and the aiming kittens up because when you fire the skill it tracks as if you’re going to keep going in the direction I was at that same speed, changing that will cause it to miss.

Arrows need another movement Speed increase if you ask me…

PS: as this entire forum should know by now I use LB A LOT.

I think all arrows should fly like longbow 3, it’s much faster than other shots.

Oberon Vex.1389:

Solrik, you did not use my power for that calculation, I fail to see how you can chide me for ‘not doing the math’ when you don’t do it properly yourself. My build has 2693 power before bloodlust stacking, which brings it to 2943 power. 4.8 *2943 * 1080/ 2000 = 7628 per target. 7628 × 5targets = 38141 total damage. The link provided in my initial post does not account for bloodlust stacks so the Power rating there is 250 lower. By modifying it up to what it is in game (2943) via might stacks (which I also get in game via RaO, on top of the 4k attack in the build) you can see the Effective Power (which accounts for crit chance and damage, if the coding on this site can be fully trusted) is 5377.

4.8*5377*1080/2000=13937 damage on target. Times that by 5 and you get 69 685 damage that is expected on skill use.

This is almost 10k higher than an arrow cart for the same time duration and it costs you no supply, no set up, no unmovable positioning. And its not ’zerker gear. And its in addition to whatever arrow carts your team has defending a position

What crit chance and damage?
“no supply, no set up, no unmovable positioning.” Yes, argue with that, because we were not talking about damage but mobility.

@Solrik:
It seems I was not clear enough in that post. That site calculates the %critchance and crit damage into an ‘effective’ power to show you how much damage you can expect, on average, to come out of skill usage. This build has 5377 effective power, thus on average I can expect 69k dmg to come out of barrage in total. I really dont see anything wrong with stating other ways in which barrage is superior to an arrow cart in this particular ‘argument’.

@Manekk:
I really dont have an issue with survivability. The instances I die in I am usually either outnumbered or I personally make a poor decision in skill usage/positioning.

Perhaps you’re really good at surviving then but you shouldn’t try to paint this spec as the result of it because it’s basically a squishie berserker spec with some extra health instead of crits.

This is a much better version of your spec in my opinion:

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/ranger/?6.5|3.1p.h2|1.1p.h4|1n.7b.1n.7b.1n.7b.1n.7b.1n.7b.1n.7b|2u.d13.2s.d13.2t.e13.2t.e13.2s.d13.2u.d13|u1ab.p5a.0.a5.5|2m.1|4i.4l.4p.4w.55|e

Changes are:

Signet of the Beastmaster trait as I can’t see why anyone would pick Signet of Stone without it.

Knights armor instead of Valkyrie to increase crit and armor.

The end result is an increase in effective power, effective health and damage reduction while also gaining a damage immunity, you’ll loose some percent in crit damage but it’s well worth the trade in my opinion.

ItIsFinished.9462:

Durzlla.6295:

I always love seeing warriors getting ready to kill shot when I’m on my staff ele, my Mesmer, my engi, or my ranger while using axe/axe… So essentially everything I play! Oh reflect how I LOVE you…

I seriously think I chuckle everytime I see a warrior get on one knee….

The sneakiest warriors roll an Asura, so you can barely tell what the midgets are doing

Durzlla.6295:

jkctmc.8754:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Durzlla.6295:

I always love seeing warriors getting ready to kill shot when I’m on my staff ele, my Mesmer, my engi, or my ranger while using axe/axe… So essentially everything I play! Oh reflect how I LOVE you…

I seriously think I chuckle everytime I see a warrior get on one knee….

This is why I kill shot people engaged with someone else, never anyone facing me. <winks>

Nerfed or not, I still hit regularly for over 20k, unless they’re insanely tanky, and it’s roughly 13k.

I love kill shot because its one of those moves you need to use skillfully or you’ll never land it, I think the damage it does is more than justified seeing as how it may be the easiest player skill to avoid in the game…

Barrage is way easier to avoid. You have to see killshot coming to avoid it, whereas barrage paints a bright red ring around you. That’s what makes it so hard to land in WvW, half the time your enemy doesn’t even know what’s being thrown at him but he sees a red ring and rolls out of it.

Oberon Vex.1389:

@Solrik:
It seems I was not clear enough in that post. That site calculates the %critchance and crit damage into an ‘effective’ power to show you how much damage you can expect, on average, to come out of skill usage. This build has 5377 effective power, thus on average I can expect 69k dmg to come out of barrage in total. I really dont see anything wrong with stating other ways in which barrage is superior to an arrow cart in this particular ‘argument’.

If someone has 2000 power, against 2000 armor, with a 50% bonus crit damage and 50% crit chance then the “expected” damage would be 2000*4.8/2 – 0.5 * 2000 * 4.8 / 2 + 2000 * 4.8 / 2. You can not just expect damage because the difference between 2k and 3k armor is a thousand.

To me it just seems you are throwing out numbers that are just “magical” and tell you something.

You are saying it takes crit chance and crit damage, two variables that varies from build to build, to calculate the power. My question was asking for what crit chance and crit damage was used.

Sure we can compare AC and Barrage:
Ac Pros:
-Fire and forget
-100% sustained damage
-Anyone can use it
-Does not need line of sight to be fired
-Longer range
-Constant damage
Ac cons:
-Takes time to set up
-Can not be moved

Barrage pros:
-High damage (thanks to critical)
-Does not need setup
-Mobile
Barrage cons:
-Channeled
-Needs line of sight (Thus endangering the player)
-1/8 of players can use Barrage, granted they all have longbows

I am not saying I dislike Barrage, I always use it when I can, even if I am sitting on arrow cart.

Arrow cart is superior though because anyone can use it while the Barrage can only be used by the rangers every 25 seconds and is most likely to fail dealing full damage because it is easily avoided. The arrow cart can deal the same damage but on different areas. E.g. infront of a retreating enemy group to cripple (the ranger lacks the range for this)

Daemon.4295:

Durzlla.6295:

jkctmc.8754:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Durzlla.6295:

I always love seeing warriors getting ready to kill shot when I’m on my staff ele, my Mesmer, my engi, or my ranger while using axe/axe… So essentially everything I play! Oh reflect how I LOVE you…

I seriously think I chuckle everytime I see a warrior get on one knee….

This is why I kill shot people engaged with someone else, never anyone facing me. <winks>

Nerfed or not, I still hit regularly for over 20k, unless they’re insanely tanky, and it’s roughly 13k.

I love kill shot because its one of those moves you need to use skillfully or you’ll never land it, I think the damage it does is more than justified seeing as how it may be the easiest player skill to avoid in the game…

Barrage is way easier to avoid. You have to see killshot coming to avoid it, whereas barrage paints a bright red ring around you. That’s what makes it so hard to land in WvW, half the time your enemy doesn’t even know what’s being thrown at him but he sees a red ring and rolls out of it.

Um…. If everyone avoids my barrage I’m pretty kittening happy because it means I’ve just cleared out a pretty big area, if someone avoids a kill shot NOTHING GOOD HAPPENS. And barrage is hardly “easier to avoid” i guarantee that at least one shot will hit them and then they’ll blow a dodge roll to get out.

If you want to compare the ability of avoiding an AoE you should probably compare it to another AoE, like Meteor Shower, or Glyph of Storms, or Lava Font, not to a single target, reflectable, dodge able, LOSable, block able, and evade able shot.

Durzlla.6295:

Daemon.4295:

Durzlla.6295:

jkctmc.8754:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Durzlla.6295:

I always love seeing warriors getting ready to kill shot when I’m on my staff ele, my Mesmer, my engi, or my ranger while using axe/axe… So essentially everything I play! Oh reflect how I LOVE you…

I seriously think I chuckle everytime I see a warrior get on one knee….

This is why I kill shot people engaged with someone else, never anyone facing me. <winks>

Nerfed or not, I still hit regularly for over 20k, unless they’re insanely tanky, and it’s roughly 13k.

I love kill shot because its one of those moves you need to use skillfully or you’ll never land it, I think the damage it does is more than justified seeing as how it may be the easiest player skill to avoid in the game…

Barrage is way easier to avoid. You have to see killshot coming to avoid it, whereas barrage paints a bright red ring around you. That’s what makes it so hard to land in WvW, half the time your enemy doesn’t even know what’s being thrown at him but he sees a red ring and rolls out of it.

Um…. If everyone avoids my barrage I’m pretty kittening happy because it means I’ve just cleared out a pretty big area, if someone avoids a kill shot NOTHING GOOD HAPPENS. And barrage is hardly “easier to avoid” i guarantee that at least one shot will hit them and then they’ll blow a dodge roll to get out.

If you want to compare the ability of avoiding an AoE you should probably compare it to another AoE, like Meteor Shower, or Glyph of Storms, or Lava Font, not to a single target, reflectable, dodge able, LOSable, block able, and evade able shot.

You’re right, it isn’t really a fair comparison because AoE skills are generally indicated by the red ring, otherwise they’d be way too OP. I was just pointing out how easy it is to avoid the longbow’s theoretically high damage, which was the original premise of the thread.

EDIT: And you won’t hit them if they blow a dodge roll, you’ll only hit them if they decide to walk out of the ring and save the endurance.

Daemon.4295:

Durzlla.6295:

Daemon.4295:

Durzlla.6295:

jkctmc.8754:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Durzlla.6295:

I always love seeing warriors getting ready to kill shot when I’m on my staff ele, my Mesmer, my engi, or my ranger while using axe/axe… So essentially everything I play! Oh reflect how I LOVE you…

I seriously think I chuckle everytime I see a warrior get on one knee….

This is why I kill shot people engaged with someone else, never anyone facing me. <winks>

Nerfed or not, I still hit regularly for over 20k, unless they’re insanely tanky, and it’s roughly 13k.

I love kill shot because its one of those moves you need to use skillfully or you’ll never land it, I think the damage it does is more than justified seeing as how it may be the easiest player skill to avoid in the game…

Barrage is way easier to avoid. You have to see killshot coming to avoid it, whereas barrage paints a bright red ring around you. That’s what makes it so hard to land in WvW, half the time your enemy doesn’t even know what’s being thrown at him but he sees a red ring and rolls out of it.

Um…. If everyone avoids my barrage I’m pretty kittening happy because it means I’ve just cleared out a pretty big area, if someone avoids a kill shot NOTHING GOOD HAPPENS. And barrage is hardly “easier to avoid” i guarantee that at least one shot will hit them and then they’ll blow a dodge roll to get out.

If you want to compare the ability of avoiding an AoE you should probably compare it to another AoE, like Meteor Shower, or Glyph of Storms, or Lava Font, not to a single target, reflectable, dodge able, LOSable, block able, and evade able shot.

You’re right, it isn’t really a fair comparison because AoE skills are generally indicated by the red ring, otherwise they’d be way too OP. I was just pointing out how easy it is to avoid the longbow’s theoretically high damage, which was the original premise of the thread.

EDIT: And you won’t hit them if they blow a dodge roll, you’ll only hit them if they decide to walk out of the ring and save the endurance.

No you’ll hit them because when the red ring appears they’ve already been hit by the first wave, a parting gift if you will…

And go to sPvP drop a super high damage barrage on a contested capture point, congrats! No one is going to want to leave that point and you’ve just done a TON of damage, and if they -do- leave the point you just helped your team cap it, it’s a win win.

Durzlla.6295:

Daemon.4295:

Durzlla.6295:

Daemon.4295:

Durzlla.6295:

jkctmc.8754:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Durzlla.6295:

I always love seeing warriors getting ready to kill shot when I’m on my staff ele, my Mesmer, my engi, or my ranger while using axe/axe… So essentially everything I play! Oh reflect how I LOVE you…

I seriously think I chuckle everytime I see a warrior get on one knee….

This is why I kill shot people engaged with someone else, never anyone facing me. <winks>

Nerfed or not, I still hit regularly for over 20k, unless they’re insanely tanky, and it’s roughly 13k.

I love kill shot because its one of those moves you need to use skillfully or you’ll never land it, I think the damage it does is more than justified seeing as how it may be the easiest player skill to avoid in the game…

Barrage is way easier to avoid. You have to see killshot coming to avoid it, whereas barrage paints a bright red ring around you. That’s what makes it so hard to land in WvW, half the time your enemy doesn’t even know what’s being thrown at him but he sees a red ring and rolls out of it.

Um…. If everyone avoids my barrage I’m pretty kittening happy because it means I’ve just cleared out a pretty big area, if someone avoids a kill shot NOTHING GOOD HAPPENS. And barrage is hardly “easier to avoid” i guarantee that at least one shot will hit them and then they’ll blow a dodge roll to get out.

If you want to compare the ability of avoiding an AoE you should probably compare it to another AoE, like Meteor Shower, or Glyph of Storms, or Lava Font, not to a single target, reflectable, dodge able, LOSable, block able, and evade able shot.

You’re right, it isn’t really a fair comparison because AoE skills are generally indicated by the red ring, otherwise they’d be way too OP. I was just pointing out how easy it is to avoid the longbow’s theoretically high damage, which was the original premise of the thread.

EDIT: And you won’t hit them if they blow a dodge roll, you’ll only hit them if they decide to walk out of the ring and save the endurance.

No you’ll hit them because when the red ring appears they’ve already been hit by the first wave, a parting gift if you will…

And go to sPvP drop a super high damage barrage on a contested capture point, congrats! No one is going to want to leave that point and you’ve just done a TON of damage, and if they -do- leave the point you just helped your team cap it, it’s a win win.

You’re right there, as long as it doesn’t get reflected at you you can’t go wrong with a barrage over a capture point. Personally I wouldn’t run longbow in sPvP though but that’s probably because I mainly pug, and with no group coordination I find I do better with other setups as I’m often left defending points on my own. What do you reckon, would you use the longbow in solo sPvP?

Durzlla.6295:

Daemon.4295:

Durzlla.6295:

Daemon.4295:

Durzlla.6295:

jkctmc.8754:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Durzlla.6295:

I always love seeing warriors getting ready to kill shot when I’m on my staff ele, my Mesmer, my engi, or my ranger while using axe/axe… So essentially everything I play! Oh reflect how I LOVE you…

I seriously think I chuckle everytime I see a warrior get on one knee….

This is why I kill shot people engaged with someone else, never anyone facing me. <winks>

Nerfed or not, I still hit regularly for over 20k, unless they’re insanely tanky, and it’s roughly 13k.

I love kill shot because its one of those moves you need to use skillfully or you’ll never land it, I think the damage it does is more than justified seeing as how it may be the easiest player skill to avoid in the game…

Barrage is way easier to avoid. You have to see killshot coming to avoid it, whereas barrage paints a bright red ring around you. That’s what makes it so hard to land in WvW, half the time your enemy doesn’t even know what’s being thrown at him but he sees a red ring and rolls out of it.

Um…. If everyone avoids my barrage I’m pretty kittening happy because it means I’ve just cleared out a pretty big area, if someone avoids a kill shot NOTHING GOOD HAPPENS. And barrage is hardly “easier to avoid” i guarantee that at least one shot will hit them and then they’ll blow a dodge roll to get out.

If you want to compare the ability of avoiding an AoE you should probably compare it to another AoE, like Meteor Shower, or Glyph of Storms, or Lava Font, not to a single target, reflectable, dodge able, LOSable, block able, and evade able shot.

You’re right, it isn’t really a fair comparison because AoE skills are generally indicated by the red ring, otherwise they’d be way too OP. I was just pointing out how easy it is to avoid the longbow’s theoretically high damage, which was the original premise of the thread.

EDIT: And you won’t hit them if they blow a dodge roll, you’ll only hit them if they decide to walk out of the ring and save the endurance.

No you’ll hit them because when the red ring appears they’ve already been hit by the first wave, a parting gift if you will…

And go to sPvP drop a super high damage barrage on a contested capture point, congrats! No one is going to want to leave that point and you’ve just done a TON of damage, and if they -do- leave the point you just helped your team cap it, it’s a win win.

I just sit on the point, using dagger 4 and sword 3. Then I usually laugh to myself at the ranger using LB against either of my builds (traps or BM) as I kill them while dodging all of their shots as they try to use LB as a primary weapon.

Of course that is my personal experience against rangers using longbow in spvp. When I get bored, I theorycraft longbow specs and run them and I definitely don’t feel as though I use it as poorly as the situation I described, but I feel like a lot of people in this thread do lol.

jcbroe.4329:

Durzlla.6295:

Daemon.4295:

Durzlla.6295:

Daemon.4295:

Durzlla.6295:

jkctmc.8754:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Durzlla.6295:

I always love seeing warriors getting ready to kill shot when I’m on my staff ele, my Mesmer, my engi, or my ranger while using axe/axe… So essentially everything I play! Oh reflect how I LOVE you…

I seriously think I chuckle everytime I see a warrior get on one knee….

This is why I kill shot people engaged with someone else, never anyone facing me. <winks>

Nerfed or not, I still hit regularly for over 20k, unless they’re insanely tanky, and it’s roughly 13k.

I love kill shot because its one of those moves you need to use skillfully or you’ll never land it, I think the damage it does is more than justified seeing as how it may be the easiest player skill to avoid in the game…

Barrage is way easier to avoid. You have to see killshot coming to avoid it, whereas barrage paints a bright red ring around you. That’s what makes it so hard to land in WvW, half the time your enemy doesn’t even know what’s being thrown at him but he sees a red ring and rolls out of it.

Um…. If everyone avoids my barrage I’m pretty kittening happy because it means I’ve just cleared out a pretty big area, if someone avoids a kill shot NOTHING GOOD HAPPENS. And barrage is hardly “easier to avoid” i guarantee that at least one shot will hit them and then they’ll blow a dodge roll to get out.

If you want to compare the ability of avoiding an AoE you should probably compare it to another AoE, like Meteor Shower, or Glyph of Storms, or Lava Font, not to a single target, reflectable, dodge able, LOSable, block able, and evade able shot.

You’re right, it isn’t really a fair comparison because AoE skills are generally indicated by the red ring, otherwise they’d be way too OP. I was just pointing out how easy it is to avoid the longbow’s theoretically high damage, which was the original premise of the thread.

EDIT: And you won’t hit them if they blow a dodge roll, you’ll only hit them if they decide to walk out of the ring and save the endurance.

No you’ll hit them because when the red ring appears they’ve already been hit by the first wave, a parting gift if you will…

And go to sPvP drop a super high damage barrage on a contested capture point, congrats! No one is going to want to leave that point and you’ve just done a TON of damage, and if they -do- leave the point you just helped your team cap it, it’s a win win.

I just sit on the point, using dagger 4 and sword 3. Then I usually laugh to myself at the ranger using LB against either of my builds (traps or BM) as I kill them while dodging all of their shots as they try to use LB as a primary weapon.

Of course that is my personal experience against rangers using longbow in spvp. When I get bored, I theorycraft longbow specs and run them and I definitely don’t feel as though I use it as poorly as the situation I described, but I feel like a lot of people in this thread do lol.

I think that to use a longbow in spvp you need to be in a team that can hold aggro for you while you harass a point from distance. I too find it ridiculous when I see rangers pug with a LB, it’s particularly silly when they try to attack me in a 1v1. They might as well be trying to TP my point

Barrage can’t be reflected. It is not projectile(s)

solrik.6028:

Barrage can’t be reflected. It is not projectile(s)

They probably meant retaliation.

jcbroe.4329:

Durzlla.6295:

Daemon.4295:

Durzlla.6295:

Daemon.4295:

Durzlla.6295:

jkctmc.8754:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Durzlla.6295:

I always love seeing warriors getting ready to kill shot when I’m on my staff ele, my Mesmer, my engi, or my ranger while using axe/axe… So essentially everything I play! Oh reflect how I LOVE you…

I seriously think I chuckle everytime I see a warrior get on one knee….

This is why I kill shot people engaged with someone else, never anyone facing me. <winks>

Nerfed or not, I still hit regularly for over 20k, unless they’re insanely tanky, and it’s roughly 13k.

I love kill shot because its one of those moves you need to use skillfully or you’ll never land it, I think the damage it does is more than justified seeing as how it may be the easiest player skill to avoid in the game…

Barrage is way easier to avoid. You have to see killshot coming to avoid it, whereas barrage paints a bright red ring around you. That’s what makes it so hard to land in WvW, half the time your enemy doesn’t even know what’s being thrown at him but he sees a red ring and rolls out of it.

Um…. If everyone avoids my barrage I’m pretty kittening happy because it means I’ve just cleared out a pretty big area, if someone avoids a kill shot NOTHING GOOD HAPPENS. And barrage is hardly “easier to avoid” i guarantee that at least one shot will hit them and then they’ll blow a dodge roll to get out.

If you want to compare the ability of avoiding an AoE you should probably compare it to another AoE, like Meteor Shower, or Glyph of Storms, or Lava Font, not to a single target, reflectable, dodge able, LOSable, block able, and evade able shot.

You’re right, it isn’t really a fair comparison because AoE skills are generally indicated by the red ring, otherwise they’d be way too OP. I was just pointing out how easy it is to avoid the longbow’s theoretically high damage, which was the original premise of the thread.

EDIT: And you won’t hit them if they blow a dodge roll, you’ll only hit them if they decide to walk out of the ring and save the endurance.

No you’ll hit them because when the red ring appears they’ve already been hit by the first wave, a parting gift if you will…

And go to sPvP drop a super high damage barrage on a contested capture point, congrats! No one is going to want to leave that point and you’ve just done a TON of damage, and if they -do- leave the point you just helped your team cap it, it’s a win win.

I just sit on the point, using dagger 4 and sword 3. Then I usually laugh to myself at the ranger using LB against either of my builds (traps or BM) as I kill them while dodging all of their shots as they try to use LB as a primary weapon.

Of course that is my personal experience against rangers using longbow in spvp. When I get bored, I theorycraft longbow specs and run them and I definitely don’t feel as though I use it as poorly as the situation I described, but I feel like a lot of people in this thread do lol.

Well if you’re hitting that ranger with traps he’s either A) a very kittenty longbow ranger or you just lost your point to the roaming thief who was coming to burst you down because EVERYONE wastes their evades on my rapid fire/barrage so they can stay on the point as I pew pew from 1500 away.

Team work is an amazing thing, it’s kinda required with long bow since its a very control oriented weapon with the Area denial, knock back, and vuln.

jcbroe.4329:

solrik.6028:

Barrage can’t be reflected. It is not projectile(s)

They probably meant retaliation.

Yeah I was thinking the same, retal on an AoE (ANY AoE btw not just barrage) is just mean… I mean, c’mon the ice storm + meteor shower nightmares I’ve had from my ele are just horrible… So much damage…

Durzlla.6295:

jcbroe.4329:

Durzlla.6295:

Daemon.4295:

Durzlla.6295:

Daemon.4295:

Durzlla.6295:

jkctmc.8754:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Durzlla.6295:

I always love seeing warriors getting ready to kill shot when I’m on my staff ele, my Mesmer, my engi, or my ranger while using axe/axe… So essentially everything I play! Oh reflect how I LOVE you…

I seriously think I chuckle everytime I see a warrior get on one knee….

This is why I kill shot people engaged with someone else, never anyone facing me. <winks>

Nerfed or not, I still hit regularly for over 20k, unless they’re insanely tanky, and it’s roughly 13k.

I love kill shot because its one of those moves you need to use skillfully or you’ll never land it, I think the damage it does is more than justified seeing as how it may be the easiest player skill to avoid in the game…

Barrage is way easier to avoid. You have to see killshot coming to avoid it, whereas barrage paints a bright red ring around you. That’s what makes it so hard to land in WvW, half the time your enemy doesn’t even know what’s being thrown at him but he sees a red ring and rolls out of it.

Um…. If everyone avoids my barrage I’m pretty kittening happy because it means I’ve just cleared out a pretty big area, if someone avoids a kill shot NOTHING GOOD HAPPENS. And barrage is hardly “easier to avoid” i guarantee that at least one shot will hit them and then they’ll blow a dodge roll to get out.

If you want to compare the ability of avoiding an AoE you should probably compare it to another AoE, like Meteor Shower, or Glyph of Storms, or Lava Font, not to a single target, reflectable, dodge able, LOSable, block able, and evade able shot.

You’re right, it isn’t really a fair comparison because AoE skills are generally indicated by the red ring, otherwise they’d be way too OP. I was just pointing out how easy it is to avoid the longbow’s theoretically high damage, which was the original premise of the thread.

EDIT: And you won’t hit them if they blow a dodge roll, you’ll only hit them if they decide to walk out of the ring and save the endurance.

No you’ll hit them because when the red ring appears they’ve already been hit by the first wave, a parting gift if you will…

And go to sPvP drop a super high damage barrage on a contested capture point, congrats! No one is going to want to leave that point and you’ve just done a TON of damage, and if they -do- leave the point you just helped your team cap it, it’s a win win.

I just sit on the point, using dagger 4 and sword 3. Then I usually laugh to myself at the ranger using LB against either of my builds (traps or BM) as I kill them while dodging all of their shots as they try to use LB as a primary weapon.

Of course that is my personal experience against rangers using longbow in spvp. When I get bored, I theorycraft longbow specs and run them and I definitely don’t feel as though I use it as poorly as the situation I described, but I feel like a lot of people in this thread do lol.

Well if you’re hitting that ranger with traps he’s either A) a very kittenty longbow ranger or you just lost your point to the roaming thief who was coming to burst you down because EVERYONE wastes their evades on my rapid fire/barrage so they can stay on the point as I pew pew from 1500 away.

Team work is an amazing thing, it’s kinda required with long bow since its a very control oriented weapon with the Area denial, knock back, and vuln.

But then I can weapon swap to shortbow with sigil of energy and have another weapon evade and dodge lol.

So while I agree it is a support weapon, I wasn’t highlighting a scenario in which a person was using it as a support weapon.

I was trying to highlight people who try to build berserker longbow builds, attack a few dummies (basically), and then say rangers have no problems and scold the rest of us on the forums for gasp being constructive and honest (even though a lot of us might have a negative overtone about the class the comes out at times, I’m sure that stems from the stagnant feeling we get from the game at times and the want to love the ranger class more and see its flaws removed).

jkctmc,

Wow! that video you posted, is quite Amazing of a Warrior using a Range rifle hitting “33k Kill Shot in WvW”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-H1zpdg7dU

Now imagine if a Ranger was hitting 33k Kill shot in WvW, they would’ve been severely nerfed in a heartbeat, yet it is ok for a warrior?

Not only the warrior is King of Melee, they are King of Range weapons as well, what a joke.

We should be King of Range in this game and Should have the highest hitting Kill shot.

When did a Warrior rifle Dare outperform our Range weapons?

When did a Thief bow Dare outperform our Range Weapons

There are reasons to be Depressed and Disappointed.

I’m here because I still care about rangers, having been my main and first love. However, being a long-bow ranger still isn’t viable. I go back and try it every now and then, full ‘zerker minus ascended, to test the damage in WvW. It still isn’t there.

For barrage comparison, my thief (in valkerie, not ‘zerker) can drop 5 cluster bombs in 5 seconds given the right circumstances – which happens quite frequently when attacking/defending – and it does 2.5k – 5k x5 targets x5 times and I’m still not quite out of initiative.

That’s 62.5k – 125k damage in 5 seconds.

Plus 3 stacks of 4s bleed per person per cluster bomb.

And it’s a blast finisher.

I’m not saying the ranger can’t do any damage. I’m just saying that at the best case scenario, it does fairly average. I hope the love they get in the next patch makes it worthwhile to play a LB ranger again. Because I miss it.

jcbroe.4329:

Durzlla.6295:

jcbroe.4329:

Durzlla.6295:

Daemon.4295:

Durzlla.6295:

Daemon.4295:

Durzlla.6295:

jkctmc.8754:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Durzlla.6295:

I always love seeing warriors getting ready to kill shot when I’m on my staff ele, my Mesmer, my engi, or my ranger while using axe/axe… So essentially everything I play! Oh reflect how I LOVE you…

I seriously think I chuckle everytime I see a warrior get on one knee….

This is why I kill shot people engaged with someone else, never anyone facing me. <winks>

Nerfed or not, I still hit regularly for over 20k, unless they’re insanely tanky, and it’s roughly 13k.

I love kill shot because its one of those moves you need to use skillfully or you’ll never land it, I think the damage it does is more than justified seeing as how it may be the easiest player skill to avoid in the game…

Barrage is way easier to avoid. You have to see killshot coming to avoid it, whereas barrage paints a bright red ring around you. That’s what makes it so hard to land in WvW, half the time your enemy doesn’t even know what’s being thrown at him but he sees a red ring and rolls out of it.

Um…. If everyone avoids my barrage I’m pretty kittening happy because it means I’ve just cleared out a pretty big area, if someone avoids a kill shot NOTHING GOOD HAPPENS. And barrage is hardly “easier to avoid” i guarantee that at least one shot will hit them and then they’ll blow a dodge roll to get out.

If you want to compare the ability of avoiding an AoE you should probably compare it to another AoE, like Meteor Shower, or Glyph of Storms, or Lava Font, not to a single target, reflectable, dodge able, LOSable, block able, and evade able shot.

You’re right, it isn’t really a fair comparison because AoE skills are generally indicated by the red ring, otherwise they’d be way too OP. I was just pointing out how easy it is to avoid the longbow’s theoretically high damage, which was the original premise of the thread.

EDIT: And you won’t hit them if they blow a dodge roll, you’ll only hit them if they decide to walk out of the ring and save the endurance.

No you’ll hit them because when the red ring appears they’ve already been hit by the first wave, a parting gift if you will…

And go to sPvP drop a super high damage barrage on a contested capture point, congrats! No one is going to want to leave that point and you’ve just done a TON of damage, and if they -do- leave the point you just helped your team cap it, it’s a win win.

I just sit on the point, using dagger 4 and sword 3. Then I usually laugh to myself at the ranger using LB against either of my builds (traps or BM) as I kill them while dodging all of their shots as they try to use LB as a primary weapon.

Of course that is my personal experience against rangers using longbow in spvp. When I get bored, I theorycraft longbow specs and run them and I definitely don’t feel as though I use it as poorly as the situation I described, but I feel like a lot of people in this thread do lol.

Well if you’re hitting that ranger with traps he’s either A) a very kittenty longbow ranger or you just lost your point to the roaming thief who was coming to burst you down because EVERYONE wastes their evades on my rapid fire/barrage so they can stay on the point as I pew pew from 1500 away.

Team work is an amazing thing, it’s kinda required with long bow since its a very control oriented weapon with the Area denial, knock back, and vuln.

But then I can weapon swap to shortbow with sigil of energy and have another weapon evade and dodge lol.

So while I agree it is a support weapon, I wasn’t highlighting a scenario in which a person was using it as a support weapon.

I was trying to highlight people who try to build berserker longbow builds, attack a few dummies (basically), and then say rangers have no problems and scold the rest of us on the forums for gasp being constructive and honest (even though a lot of us might have a negative overtone about the class the comes out at times, I’m sure that stems from the stagnant feeling we get from the game at times and the want to love the ranger class more and see its flaws removed).

Immobs ftw!

But yeah longbow does a TON of damage from ranged, but you have to be able to stay at ranged which the longbow can’t do on its own beceause of this u use it more for support.

Burnfall.9573:

jkctmc,

Wow! that video you posted, is quite Amazing of a Warrior using a Range rifle hitting “33k Kill Shot in WvW”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-H1zpdg7dU

Now imagine if a Ranger was hitting 33k Kill shot in WvW, they would’ve been severely nerfed in a heartbeat, yet it is ok for a warrior?

Not only the warrior is King of Melee, they are King of Range weapons as well, what a joke.

We should be King of Range in this game and Should have the highest hitting Kill shot.

When did a Warrior rifle Dare outperform our Range weapons?

When did a Thief bow Dare outperform our Range Weapons

There are reasons to be Depressed and Disappointed.

Yet they’re the easiest class to kill in spvp. I don’t have probs with warriors, given how easily I kill them despite all that damage I feel that anet did a good job balancing them.

In WvW anything can make big numbers.
In TPvP, longbow is completely subpar.

/endthread.

Daemon,
I’ll take your word for it, however the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-H1zpdg7dU tells a whole different story. That warrior didn’t seem easy to kill, in fact his >33k kill shots were.

I’m sure everyone who were fighting that warrior made it easy for the kill shots.

I encourage you to tell that to any other class other than thief how you " feel that anet did a good job balancing them"; im sure the Engineer class would be Gracious to anet as well.

Burnfall.9573:

Daemon,
I’ll take your word for it, however the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-H1zpdg7dU tells a whole different story. That warrior didn’t seem easy to kill, in fact his >33k kill shots were.

I’m sure everyone who were fighting that warrior made it easy for the kill shots.

Also take note that every time he goes in for the kill most people had there back turned or he was catching them off guard. He also had to hit every utility and his elite to get that amount of damage.

OP’s longbow numbers are actually pretty bad. 2.5k on a longbow crit that fires, like, every 1.5 seconds? Even as a direct point of comparison, a single hit from a sword ranger can crit 2k and you can do a full attack chain in the amount of time it takes to do one longbow shot.

With regards to direct DPS, though, the ranger’s sword and GS numbers actually aren’t bad. I think too many people are caught up in the “I’m a ranger, gotta use bows” mentality, so the actual DPS options get overlooked, and the class as a whole gets a bad rep for having low DPS. Until recently, even I used to think this, unless I actually crunched some numbers. It’s the same problem as how all guardians run tank builds, so people assume they can’t DPS, when they can actually build to be the highest DPS class in the game.

In terms of overall DPS combined with pet, Ranger actually does reasonably well for itself. Not quite as good as guardian or warrior, but enough to justify taking a sword ranger for the extra Frost Spirit buff stacking on top of everything else.

ItIsFinished.

I hear what you saying, but your missing the point. I was not talking about if people are turning their backs or not, or catching them off guard, that is totally irrelevant to what I said.
Again, i’m talking about damage wise, not otherwise.

As a ranger, even if we “had to hit every utility and his elite to get that amount of damage”, we wouldn’t Never get that high damage output.

What is laughable is that even if we did try to "hit every utility and our elite, our range weapons would greatly miss; doesn’t matter if or how much our precisions were capped or not, still would miss our target/s.

Even our “pets” laughs at us when we think we can Dps high damage output, they even remind us how suck we are at Range by killing themselves first/Suicide, waiting for us to join them at their burial.

The only classes that can output Maximum damage or more; melee or range are, Warrior and Thief.

Read Kincaidia post, Thief “62.5k – 125k damage in 5 seconds. Plus 3 stacks of 4s bleed per person per cluster bomb. And it’s a blast finisher”.

Also no other class in this game have that high damage blast finisher one other than these two.

Not directly related to the build, but for all that is holy, could people stop filling them with all ascended gear? If you don’t spend every minute of game time grinding the fractals, it’s unrealistic to set the projected stats with ascended gear – and, while it’s not a huge change, it’s (at least) 60 pts of power lost from this build, to reset it to all exotic.

The other stats get hit with the same kind of change (which scales more with things like vitality and toughness). Use exotics, since that’s what the bulk of the playerbase will be using.

Just a request, and my humble opinion.

solrik.6028:

If someone has 2000 power, against 2000 armor, with a 50% bonus crit damage and 50% crit chance then the “expected” damage would be 2000*4.8/2 – 0.5 * 2000 * 4.8 / 2 + 2000 * 4.8 / 2. You can not just expect damage because the difference between 2k and 3k armor is a thousand.

To me it just seems you are throwing out numbers that are just “magical” and tell you something.

You are saying it takes crit chance and crit damage, two variables that varies from build to build, to calculate the power. My question was asking for what crit chance and crit damage was used.

Sure we can compare AC and Barrage:
Ac Pros:
-Fire and forget
-100% sustained damage
-Anyone can use it
-Does not need line of sight to be fired
-Longer range
-Constant damage
Ac cons:
-Takes time to set up
-Can not be moved

Barrage pros:
-High damage (thanks to critical)
-Does not need setup
-Mobile
Barrage cons:
-Channeled
-Needs line of sight (Thus endangering the player)
-1/8 of players can use Barrage, granted they all have longbows

I am not saying I dislike Barrage, I always use it when I can, even if I am sitting on arrow cart.

Arrow cart is superior though because anyone can use it while the Barrage can only be used by the rangers every 25 seconds and is most likely to fail dealing full damage because it is easily avoided. The arrow cart can deal the same damage but on different areas. E.g. infront of a retreating enemy group to cripple (the ranger lacks the range for this)

Solrik, I don’t think I can make this any clearer than I have. The crit-chance and crit damage, and the power, used in my calculation are in my build. The effective power I used is in my build. They are not random figures I made up to prove a point. I can expect 69k damage from barrage on average (meaning sometimes it WILL hit lower and sometimes it WILL hit harder). I used the same math that you provided against the same armor target; I really can’t see how you can think I am manipulating the numbers.

Barrage is superior to an Arrow Cart because it deals the same damage over its cooldown, but in the first four seconds. That’s burst vs sustain.

Also, Arrow carts still need line of site to place the target, its just less buggy than the barrage LoS.

Additionally you can hardly call ‘requiring a longbow’ or ‘requires being ranger’ a con for a skill that is on the ranger’s longbow; you cant use Barrage without a longbow. It is a benefit that other classes can use the arrowcart while the Ranger uses barrage, it lets a player not set up to deal decent ranged damage use the arrowcart and still output the damage and be useful in the keep/castle/whatever defense.

Burnfall.9573:

jkctmc,

Wow! that video you posted, is quite Amazing of a Warrior using a Range rifle hitting “33k Kill Shot in WvW”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-H1zpdg7dU

Now imagine if a Ranger was hitting 33k Kill shot in WvW, they would’ve been severely nerfed in a heartbeat, yet it is ok for a warrior?

Not only the warrior is King of Melee, they are King of Range weapons as well, what a joke.

We should be King of Range in this game and Should have the highest hitting Kill shot.

When did a Warrior rifle Dare outperform our Range weapons?

When did a Thief bow Dare outperform our Range Weapons

There are reasons to be Depressed and Disappointed.

Quoted, because this is how it should be, vs how it is.

@ Manekk: Nice modification. To be honest I normally run Signet of the Hunt in-lieu of SoS; and yes it would make sense to swap remorseless for Beastmaster’s signets when running SoS.

@Guanlai Kangyi:
You are also making the mistake of comparing a 1500range skill versus a melee range skill. To everyone in general: if you read how I use the build (in a post previous) you would know that I very rarely try to auto attack with the longbow. I burn LB3->2->5 perhaps then auto attack once or twice while still at range, then swap to greatsword while barrage and rapidfire are on cooldown and the enemy closes on me. I would appreciate it if people would stop assuming I never swap weapon sets (imo anyone that doesn’t utilize both weapons is missing out on half their skills…)

@Stale:
It really doesn’t take that long to get ascended gear in this game, and as it is the highest stat you can achieve I think its only logical to assume people will at least TRY to get it. Once you get to fractal lvl10 it is a maximum of 20days (less if you luck out and get the ascended ring as a drop) to get your two ascended rings. You can get your ascended amulet within a month, and provided you are in a decently equipped guild you can get both your earrings in 2 months (getting 3 guild commendations a week). In the scheme of things that really isn’t that long, considering it would take ~40min a day (on those 20days) to run your daily fractal, you get laurels by playing the game anyway, and perhaps another 20-40min a week for the guild activities to get the commendation.

Oberon Vex.1389:

@Stale:
It really doesn’t take that long to get ascended gear in this game, and as it is the highest stat you can achieve I think its only logical to assume people will at least TRY to get it. Once you get to fractal lvl10 it is a maximum of 20days (less if you luck out and get the ascended ring as a drop) to get your two ascended rings. You can get your ascended amulet within a month, and provided you are in a decently equipped guild you can get both your earrings in 2 months (getting 3 guild commendations a week). In the scheme of things that really isn’t that long, considering it would take ~40min a day (on those 20days) to run your daily fractal, you get laurels by playing the game anyway, and perhaps another 20-40min a week for the guild activities to get the commendation.

Humour me – I know that of my guild and friend list, most of them have, at best, 2 ascended items. I personally have 4 (but 3 are dupes, go figure). Also, accept that the folks on the forums are the outliers – we’re the ones who play the most, and are most likely to grind out max gear. (Insert obligatory rant about Anet lying to us, and no gear treadmill, rageragerage.)

The bulk of the playerbase gets by with exotic – I know some people who get by with rare stuff. Making builds with numbers that reflect what you’re most likely to find in game (especially once you start swapping builds regularly) strikes me as realistic.

It also avoids falsely inflated numbers. I don’t really think anyone is going to spend a month or more grinding gear to try out a build.

EDIT: I didn’t mean humour me in your build creation, but rather for the duration of the post, to see if you get my point.

@stale: I agree that it may be unrealistic to expect someone to grind it out just to try it. But if you are looking on forums for builds, you are really going to have to take the poster at his/her word about the effectiveness of the build. Some builds (like the kittenasination one) dont require specific gear, but others (like the condition-trapper) would require certain gear to grind out to even try. Most people choose a particular playstyle (direct damage vs Condi vs support etc) and would look for a build in that vein. Also: every damage output I have personally posted is in no way inflated unless the only ‘inflation’ comes from ascended gear.

EDIT: why did it ‘kitten’ when i typed kittenination?

EDIT2: oookay apparently the act of killing someone for money is a censored word as well

it’s censored because is an arsearseination build. which is what I currently run. (wish they’d get off their backside and fix longbow…)

Oberon Vex.1389:

@
@Stale:
It really doesn’t take that long to get ascended gear in this game, and as it is the highest stat you can achieve I think its only logical to assume people will at least TRY to get it. Once you get to fractal lvl10 it is a maximum of 20days (less if you luck out and get the ascended ring as a drop) to get your two ascended rings. You can get your ascended amulet within a month, and provided you are in a decently equipped guild you can get both your earrings in 2 months (getting 3 guild commendations a week). In the scheme of things that really isn’t that long, considering it would take ~40min a day (on those 20days) to run your daily fractal, you get laurels by playing the game anyway, and perhaps another 20-40min a week for the guild activities to get the commendation.

That is far to long, any more than an hour in an instance is to long. I deal with poorly coded boring ai enough as it is with my rangers pet last thing I want to do is go look for it in their dungeoun scripts.

Besides them saying no gear grind blah blah you get the idea. Seeing their shoddy programing daily with my pet is enough.

@ Bailey:
I uhhh… estimated 40 min in a fractal. They can be done quite quickly depending on scenario and group, but I thought I’d be conservative with my assumption on player skill. In either case that’s still less than one hour a day for fractal running :/

Also: I can’t say I’ve ever really had an issue with the pet. At least not game-breaking difficulties. What I would like to see, is just give the pet an auto attack that it does by itself, make F1 a toggle “attack my target/return” and replace the F3/F4 with the other two attacks the pet has access to (the pet class ones). They could easily just make another hotkey for swapping pet. I would even take just having the control attack the pet has access to (knockdown/cripple/condition removal, most pets have some form of control that they use independantly) being on a hotkey so that its on demand, if not both of them. That and make the active skill F2 actually interupt the other skills the pet does… just to make it more responsive…

@Stale:
This entire thread/build is about how the longbow isn’t as broken as everyone keeps moaning about.