Guild Wars 2

I must admit, I’ve been trying to learn the sword, but I always go back to GS because I don’t want to keep clicking 1’s all the time.

Anyway, the goal of this rework is to remove the leaps from the auto and at same time reduce evade spam in PvP. Yes this will most likely kill bunker builds (unless going back to dagger, but #4 will probably cause conflicts). Keep in mind that I know nothing about PvP save for what I’ve read in PvP Forum, so please go easy on me.

Basically what I propose is to simply take a page from both warrior and thief swords:

1. Slash -> Kick -> Serpent’s Strike – Kick will have the leap (and possibly the cripple) removed, and SS will have a simpler animation with no evade and appropriate poison duration depending on the length of the chain. In short the chain becomes just like any other chains.

1. Monarch’s Leap -> Hornet Sting – Simple swap just like thief sword. No other change save for maybe increasing the time before HS reverts back to ML.

1. Pounce -> Stays the same except with a recharge of 10s. Increasing the range is tempting, but comboing this with #2 seems OP and will get the same treatment as ele’s RtL. Another possible change is upping the coefficient, but GS will likely become garbage.

I would just say let #2 and #3 be as it is and delete the jumping and kicking in the #1chain.
Because our character leaps and kicks he has basically no time to evade. Other classes’ sword chain does nothing like leaping i think, does it? (e.g. guardians GS chain)
Just a normal attack chain, that’s it.

P.S: for the #2 the evade activation should come immediately and not after 1 second

I really miss a leap-on-demand on the sword.

It has two leaps, but one is stuck at the end of the auto-attack chain and the other is hidden behind Hornet Sting.

I want something like:
1) Slash -> Kick -> Pounce
2) Hornet String
3) Monarch’s Leap -> Serpent’s Strike

Also, a 3/4 evade added to Pounce would be nice. Considering you can’t dodge during the leap.

Holland.9351:

I really miss a leap-on-demand on the sword.

It has two leaps, but one is stuck at the end of the auto-attack chain ….

pounce is not really a leap it’s only written in the text but has no combo finisher. But at all i’m happy with the leap “hidden” in the hornet sting i don’t need more.
3/4 evade would be nice for pounce, that or no movement at all so we can dodge

Ugh, no, Why don’t you just completely ruin ALL our weapon sets while you’re akitten

They should just make us able to dodge in the middle of doing out #1 skills, and all would be happy and good.

Durzlla.6295:

Ugh, no, Why don’t you just completely ruin ALL our weapon sets while you’re akitten

So what don’t you like about this idea? The only thing you’re missing is evade from Serpent’s Strike, but to compensate for that, you get more movement out of 2 and 3.

Sarision.6347:

Durzlla.6295:

Ugh, no, Why don’t you just completely ruin ALL our weapon sets while you’re akitten

So what don’t you like about this idea? The only thing you’re missing is evade from Serpent’s Strike, but to compensate for that, you get more movement out of 2 and 3.

Well our ability to keep up as a whole is totally gutted compared to now, not to mention our damage overall would tank by us no longer being able to maintain ~5 stacks of might on pet via Pounce, according to your thing we’d lose the cripple making it more difficult for both is and our pet to keep up.

Our 2 and 3 skills would be redundant as hell, we lose an evade (key for survival in Melee for our prof).

Just all around bad, I understand you want to be able to dodge while auto attacking, I get that, but ruining the weapon isn’t the way to go.

Oh yeah, by making that simple switch on 2 you completely destroy our easiest method to escape, I mean holy kitten how many leaps do you kittening need? Hornet stings entire purpose is to get you OUT of Melee range but allow you to get back in, not kittening engage and then leave, horrible, and the only reason the thief one works is cause it has no CD and is a teleport.

I’d rather see the #2 skill be changed to make it range dependent. Make Hornet sting activate if you’re within 300 range of your selected target and give it a 300 range, maybe a lunging strike before the backwards leap. When you’re more than 300 units away from your target, then it’s Monarch’s Leap. That would make it a gap closer AND an escape.

As for the auto attack chain, why not make it range dependent as well? Only do the leap animation if you’re far enough away from the target to need it. Otherwise, you get a different animation for the same skill. Then make dodging cancel the auto attack chain so you don’t jump right back in afterwards and you have a weapon with great stickiness and improved control.

If they can’t do that, then I’d like an evade in the chain that covers one of the rooted attacks. I think that would be fair.

You guys are assuming there’s something wrong with sword…according to a GS ranger.
Come on.

I guess I’m just an idiot for overestimating PvPers’ skills. I thought deselecting target -> Pounce -> Monarch’s Leap -> turn around -> Hornet Sting makes a great escape, but I guess I’m wrong.

And is the loss of a 3/4s evade a big blow to our sustain? People have been asking to tone down the evade spam.

Whatever, I’ll go back to forum lurking then.

showatt.9413:

You guys are assuming there’s something wrong with sword…according to a GS ranger.
Come on.

No, we’re assuming there’s something wrong with Sword because of the amount of hate there is for sword and the number of people who are unwilling to use it because of its design.

I could actually see these changes working. It lets you have an auto attack while still having leaps at your disposal for gap closing. My only thing is that kick should cripple and serpent’s strike should evade.

With those two in place it could work. Though I don’t know that I like serpent’s strike flipping me all over the place more than I like pounce and kick locking me down.

Sarision.6347:

I guess I’m just an idiot for overestimating PvPers’ skills. I thought deselecting target -> Pounce -> Monarch’s Leap -> turn around -> Hornet Sting makes a great escape, but I guess I’m wrong.

Whatever, I’ll go back to forum lurking then.

That’d be an incredibly clunk way of doing it and current if you’re fighting someone with sword just hit them twice, detarget, turn around pounce TWO times away, turn around hornet sting, turn back around and monarchs leap, and if you’re like me and REALLY want to get out of the realm of possibility of them catching you use LR between hornets and monarchs. Congrats, you’re nowhere NEAR that fight.

Kal Spiro.9745:

showatt.9413:

You guys are assuming there’s something wrong with sword…according to a GS ranger.
Come on.

No, we’re assuming there’s something wrong with Sword because of the amount of hate there is for sword and the number of people who are unwilling to use it because of its design.

I could actually see these changes working. It lets you have an auto attack while still having leaps at your disposal for gap closing. My only thing is that kick should cripple and serpent’s strike should evade.

With those two in place it could work. Though I don’t know that I like serpent’s strike flipping me all over the place more than I like pounce and kick locking me down.

okay I must be crazy then because every time I drop into a match I kid you not the rangers I’ve met are always using sword. Honestly the weapon is brain-dead easy to learn, gives you a ton of option, and boost your survivability by a tenfold because of all the leap cripple and evade you get.

Why change what isn’t broken?

Sarision.6347:

I guess I’m just an idiot for overestimating PvPers’ skills. I thought deselecting target -> Pounce -> Monarch’s Leap -> turn around -> Hornet Sting makes a great escape, but I guess I’m wrong.

Whatever, I’ll go back to forum lurking then.

You should probably try to learn and stick with sword first. See how it ticks.
It’s annoying to click 1 all the time, sure, but maybe the solution would be not to rely on sword as a active damage output but as a disengager.

by pairing up with a torch, you can easily activate fire armor while simultaneously watching the enemy burn away. If you build around condition damage the burning will take care all the damage and you only need 1 for crippling them on top of the fire.

I agree… #2 should start with a lunge forward first before the Roll Back.
Would work a LOT better with Combos. (& WvW roaming too).

We already have L.R. when we just need a prepared Evade backwards
Though I also think the Hornet sting should instantly remove Immobs and break stun simply b/c it’s on a limited time-to-activate and therefore deserves more “reward”.

showatt.9413:

You should probably try to learn and stick with sword first. See how it ticks.
It’s annoying to click 1 all the time, sure, but maybe the solution would be not to rely on sword as a active damage output but as a disengager.

by pairing up with a torch, you can easily activate fire armor while simultaneously watching the enemy burn away. If you build around condition damage the burning will take care all the damage and you only need 1 for crippling them on top of the fire.

I have no interest in running condi builds.

Durzlla.6295:

Just all around bad, I understand you want to be able to dodge while auto attacking, I get that, but ruining the weapon isn’t the way to go.

Is it destroyed when the “leap” of #1-pounce is erased? then i think we should be able to dodge and the might and all the cripple on the sword is still intact. There is anyway no combo finisher in this pounce.

Everything else is fine.

…the solution would be not to rely on sword as a active damage output but as a disengager.

totally agree with you.

I liked the idea I saw where the Kick skill and Pounce were moved to the end of serpent strike, except kick was reverted to its glory days of being a knock back, and Pounce gave 10 stacks of might to the pet.

I don’t remember what the guy said to do to the auto attack though, I think it was just generic #1 damage skill progression with a cripple still attached to the 2, and maybe swiftness on the 3 chain.

showatt.9413:

Kal Spiro.9745:

showatt.9413:

You guys are assuming there’s something wrong with sword…according to a GS ranger.
Come on.

No, we’re assuming there’s something wrong with Sword because of the amount of hate there is for sword and the number of people who are unwilling to use it because of its design.

I could actually see these changes working. It lets you have an auto attack while still having leaps at your disposal for gap closing. My only thing is that kick should cripple and serpent’s strike should evade.

With those two in place it could work. Though I don’t know that I like serpent’s strike flipping me all over the place more than I like pounce and kick locking me down.

okay I must be crazy then because every time I drop into a match I kid you not the rangers I’ve met are always using sword. Honestly the weapon is brain-dead easy to learn, gives you a ton of option, and boost your survivability by a tenfold because of all the leap cripple and evade you get.

Why change what isn’t broken?

Do you even play a ranger? Have you used sword? Every Ranger knows sword is broken, even those who use it and have made it work for them. A weapon in which you have to use autoattack manually instead of on auto to have any ability to function is broken. That Ranger Sword is the only weapon in the entire game where this is the case is the evidence of that.

Yes, it is a strong weapon, specifically in PvP. Everywhere else is it a liability. Its only real purpose is not to escape, but to dog. It is designed to lock you onto a target and never to let them get away. The problem is, in anything but PvP this will get you killed.

The changes suggested here would allow it to maintain its ability to continually the target, even if not quite as locked on, while also removing that liability from everywhere else.

The never ending dilemma. PvPers who don’t need precision dodging loving the sword for its harassment, mobility quirks and damage potential. PvEers tired of getting gibbed in dungeons because they can’t dodge clearly telegraphed doom attacks.

It’s been debated since beta. A year into the game without so much as a hint at change being considered, it’s pretty clear it’s staying like this. I think all you can hope for at this point is a new onehand melee weapon when they eventually get around to that.

I am never gibbed with my sword in dungeons. Please don’t change the sword, ask for a new mainhand that doesn’t have leaps like a dagger. Thank you.

Chopps.5047:

I am never gibbed with my sword in dungeons. Please don’t change the sword, ask for a new mainhand that doesn’t have leaps like a dagger. Thank you.

While I’m sure you can sword your way through dungeons just fine, claims like that are really all I’ve heard on the forums. I’ve only seen faeral’s videos really discuss how to make the sword functional, and they’re more of a basic primer on how to not completely suck. If it really is a case of L2P over the sword being functionally flawed, then better training resources would go a long way towards curbing the sword hate and ensuring it retains its current design.

It’s a case of L2P and no tutorial mode by anet.

I was thinking more along the lines of tutorials from the ranger community. ArenaNet isn’t going to release such things. But since the ranger sword is possibly the most publicly loathed weapon in the game, there is an ever so minute chance that they will cave to the pressure and overhaul the weapon. MMOs have a tendency to gravitate towards homogenization over time like that.

It will ultimately fall to the ranger community to T2P if they’re serious about protecting their sword.

Cufufalating.8479:

They should just make us able to dodge in the middle of doing out #1 skills, and all would be happy and good.

’nuff said

“Ranger is too passive”

“Ranger needs more micro on pets”

“SWORD IS TOO HARD TO USE”

Clockwork Bard.3105:

PvEers tired of getting gibbed in dungeons because they can’t dodge clearly telegraphed doom attacks.

Yep… This got me just last night. Instead of instantly dodging like I always do with every other weapon set in the entire game, no the extra little #1 tap (b/c it was lagging) caused me to keep dancing around and spinning in the middle of an easily avoidable red circle of instant death.

The worst part is having to explain to everyone in your party why it keeps happening.

EDIT:
…This is not even an issue with Swords mechanics itself, for those of you who don’t fully understanding Programming…. this was just their Programmers cutting corners like they often do; by using a client—>server attack/movement Queue order without placing proper waits/breaks or listening pauses in between for inputs to cancel that Queue and check for higher priority inputs like Jumps, Dodges, and Evades

Clearly you don’t use autoattack with sword and you evade boss attacks with serpents strike. I have a video of me pwning alpha not losing a pet and just ripping him with sword using dodges, evades, everything. People can’t use it because they can’t time serpents strike, the leaps, or leave on autoattack. I can’t help you when you refuse to use it properly.

Why’s it keep happening? Becaue you’re doing it wrong. You are not positioning yourself or timing evades. You are making mistakes.

Chopps.5047:

Clearly you don’t use autoattack with sword and you evade boss attacks with serpents strike.

Why’s it keep happening? Becaue you’re doing it wrong. You are not positioning yourself or timing evades. You are making mistakes.

And you’re just not listening. There was no Auto attack enabled.

Please start listening to people.
Or they will just stop listening to you.
This is not a L2P class.

This is still a Learn-to-play-AROUND-the-bugs-class.
Fix the programming bugs… and all the need for L2P will disappear

“Fix ranger by making it more AFK passive” is what I’m hearing. I am reading what I read. It seems clear that evasion with sword is too hard for most people. I don’t spam the autoattack. I can dodge roll or weapon evade whenever I want. But, gee, lets nerf ranger’s beastmaster/cripple skill because Chopps isn’t listening.

And by the way, this IS a L2P class. No other profession struggles with the issues we do. It’s so much harder to be a good ranger in the first place than other professions. I think the spirit build blinded people to that. There’s many quirks about ranger you have to learn. What if I get immobilized on my remorseless build? I have to switch to greatsword, swap pets, pop signet of renewal, and then swoop away all in good timing. If I don’t I lose. This is the definition of L2P and that’s a greatsword example. There’s too many other examples to cover here. Ranger is very, very difficult to play compared to faceroll GG haha OP guardians or warriors who have been OP in pve basically since day 1. Now warrior is OP in everything. But rangers man, better nerf that healing spring and break the sword.

Ah… thanks for clearing that up then.

You never learned 2 program so you’re confusing what I said, for changing the effects or conditions of the sword’s attacks themselves. No I am not advocating one way or another for any of those changes. That’s between you and the OP I guess. The only point I’m making is that there needs to be “Cancels” built into the attack Queue which is purely a Timing-vs-Input technical issue used to keep players from “teleporting around” too much in heavy latency.

Anyone who advocates that the ranger’s sword auto-attack should ignore dodges is trying to avoid facing the obvious problem. No other auto in the game requires such micro for survivability.

Yes, it is still usable. But no, it is bad design. Simply adding in the ability to dodge from the chain would fix the primary complaint of the weapon without changing it’s effectiveness.

Chopps.5047:

“Fix ranger by making it more AFK passive” is what I’m hearing. I am reading what I read. It seems clear that evasion with sword is too hard for most people. I don’t spam the autoattack. I can dodge roll or weapon evade whenever I want. But, gee, lets nerf ranger’s beastmaster/cripple skill because Chopps isn’t listening.

It’s not that it’s too difficult. It’s needlessly difficult. Maybe you’d be happier with ranger if you had to hit a button every so often to make your character breath. Think that would be fun? I sure don’t.

Chopps.5047:

It’s a case of L2P and no tutorial mode by anet.

L2P is a situation like don’t stand in the fire.

Turn off auto attack on this single weapon in all of the weapons in the game in order to even be functional is not L2P. It’s getting around a broken design. Work arounds aren’t learning to play, they’re learning to cope with something that doesn’t work right.

If there was even one other weapon in the game that simply was no usable if left on auto I could almost accept this. But there isn’t. I know, I’ve used all of them. The sword is broken, and you can go on and on about it all you want but you’re not making it less broken.

Turning off auto to gain improved functionality is fine. Being required to do so in order to have ANY functionality is not.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Chopps.5047:

It’s a case of L2P and no tutorial mode by anet.

L2P is a situation like don’t stand in the fire.

Turn off auto attack on this single weapon in all of the weapons in the game in order to even be functional is not L2P. It’s getting around a broken design. Work arounds aren’t learning to play, they’re learning to cope with something that doesn’t work right.

If there was even one other weapon in the game that simply was no usable if left on auto I could almost accept this. But there isn’t. I know, I’ve used all of them. The sword is broken, and you can go on and on about it all you want but you’re not making it less broken.

Turning off auto to gain improved functionality is fine. Being required to do so in order to have ANY functionality is not.

Well you do get functionality with the auto attack it’s just significantly harder to grasp than if you turned it off, i know several rangers who will not use the sword without the auto attack being turned on (which is dumb if you ask me).

That being said as much as i love the swords leaps and all that i do want to see it changed, because as much as i love it i’d like to be able to USE my sword on high up areas near cliffs where my longbow can’t be utilized (whether it’s due to the enemy having stability or it being in PvE where i can’t throw people off).

You can’t evade when using sword autoattack. The only thing that sucks on the ranger sword. Timing becomes..non-existant.

showatt.9413:

You guys are assuming there’s something wrong with sword…according to a GS ranger.
Come on.

I’ve never seen any weapon get as much hate as the ranger sword. It’s kittening awful in PvE, even if you succeed with it, you’re fighting tooth and nail against its kittenty design. In PvP it might be great for players too lazy to melee like every other class (and maintain melee range without a cumbersome mechanic doing it for you) but in PvE it’s useless and seriously detracts from the viability of the weapon. Rangers already have to manage the kittentiest PvE class mechanic in the game, having to overcome the poor design of the sword is just one more thing the class doesn’t need.

If the sword was a low DPS weapon, no-one in PvE would care, but it’s the highest DPS weapon (and the only other melee weapon is a low DPS weapon, in a game where melee is the meta, this is a huge problem) and it’s unusable for a lot of players. Even if you can succeed with it, you are not hindered by it. It does actually force you to be vulnerable as part of its design. Learning the timing of the dodges doesn’t overcome the fact that there will be times that an axe warrior can dodge and a sword ranger won’t be able to.

It’s a joke to hear them talk about raising the skill requirement of PvE rangers in the game by giving more control over the pet when the sword is arguably one of the most difficult weapons in the game to use in dungeons.

Dungeon master and high level FOTM player here. I only use sword in pve. Please stop asking to change it. Thank you.

Chopps.5047:

Dungeon master and high level FOTM player here. I only use sword in pve. Please stop asking to change it. Thank you.

The request is to take out the root. Nothing else. That root makes it’s use dangerous and requiring of much more skill to simply attack. No other weapon acts this way.

If another class had a weapon with large periods of rooting on it’s autoattack, I would agree. But as we are the only ones with this glaring flaw, then I cannot in good conscience say that the weapon does not need this issue fixed.