Guild Wars 2

What if there was a trait that removes the leaps (which also removes losing control) and maybe adds something in return (short bleed stacks f.e., post your suggestions).

Some people like it, some people hate it. Now they can chose.

Alternatively they could just remove it and add a trait saying “Sword autoattack chain skills leap to your target.” for people that want the original mechanic.

Personally I see the problem not in the existance of this mechanic but rather the fact that ranger lacks other mainhand melee options. This would have made more sense on for example warrior where you just could pick another melee mainhand if you don’t like it but ranger lacks alternatives and we wont get more in hot since it will be a staff.

I suggested this in the CDI back then, but nobody cared

Leaping staff of vine shooting….I think I like that idea !

I don’t get why people want sword aa to be chopchopchop. More complicated weapon skills are needed ingame or its all mashpotatoes where everything is squashed into the same boring consistency.

Dojo.1867:

Personally I see the problem not in the existance of this mechanic but rather the fact that ranger lacks other mainhand melee options.

Nonsense, axe MH is a melee weapon with a really wide cleave.

What if there was a trait that removes the leaps (which also removes losing control) and maybe adds something in return (short bleed stacks f.e., post your suggestions).
Alternatively they could just remove it and add a trait saying “Sword autoattack chain skills leap to your target.” for people that want the original mechanic.

I see you mean well, but i can see the leaps being… “hardcoded” if you will, into the AA chain. I saw something about how they implemented fury on Greatsword trait and suddendly broke a trait in marksmanship, took them like 2 days to reverse it back, point being that there’s more to trait mechanics other than a flip of the switch.

I see what you are trying to say Ariete but Axe MH still isn’t a traditional melee weapon just because of a shotgun like #2 skill. Could as well call engi rifle melee then, just because it requires some close up positioning.

They could simply look at thief and warrior.

It should be:
1. slash (cleaving damage) -> 2. slash (cleaving damage) -> 3. stab (cleaving damage, cripples foe, pet gains might)

Warrior & thief are the proof, that you can simply run after your foe, hit and cripple him. There is no need to “jump” after an enemy. Just use the sword auto-chain animation from thiefs (not warriors, because it’s bugged).

I’d like to use the sword, but with the bouncing around it’s just not that fun and it actually makes evading harder.
Now I use axe but that isn’t melee weapon, for some reason, as all of it’s attacks are ranged and can be bounced back to you with reflection.

Alerno.1425:

I’d like to use the sword, but with the bouncing around it’s just not that fun and it actually makes evading harder.
Now I use axe but that isn’t melee weapon, for some reason, as all of it’s attacks are ranged and can be bounced back to you with reflection.

Major problem with the axe that it hits like 3 wet noodles.

I actually really like the skill cap for sword main hand. Please don’t fix what isn’t broken.

Malchior.1928:

I actually really like the skill cap for sword main hand. Please don’t fix what isn’t broken.

imo they should close the DPS gap between sword and GS a bit more (maybe like 8-10% instead of 17%).

That way sword would still be optimal DPS due to requiring more skill, but GS would at least be a viable alternative to people who don’t want to deal with the sword leaps.

Sina.9208:

Alerno.1425:

I’d like to use the sword, but with the bouncing around it’s just not that fun and it actually makes evading harder.
Now I use axe but that isn’t melee weapon, for some reason, as all of it’s attacks are ranged and can be bounced back to you with reflection.

Major problem with the axe that it hits like 3 wet noodles.

I don’t know I think it would be really cool for condi/hybrid builds if the might stacks would last twice that long.

Malchior.1928:

I actually really like the skill cap for sword main hand. Please don’t fix what isn’t broken.

That is the whole point. You keep what you like. Others also get what they like. Why would you not want others to get what they like.

Malchior.1928:

I actually really like the skill cap for sword main hand. Please don’t fix what isn’t broken.

I think where we differ in opinion is in our definitions.

I don’t think allowing players to cancel the 2nd and 3rd attacks in the Ranger Sword Auto-attack chain with a dodge roll, sheathing your weapon, and/or other means would lower the skill cap for the sword.

In fact, if you look at several of the tricks posted by “pros” (see: in the paid tournaments), they make use of canceling animations, etc. via these various means in order to improve their capabilities.

The fact that the Ranger Sword does not allow this prevents it from being used in these ways so I believe it actually lowers the potential skill cap of the ability.

Additionally, it makes using it in PvE rather annoying.

Given that I see the results of its current incarnation are…

• Lower potential skill cap
• Annoying in particular situations
  … and they are only negative results, I believe it would be much improved if we were allowed to interrupt any of the 3 attacks in our auto-attack chain instead of only 1/3 of them.

To give an even more basic example:

• GoodPlayer is using his Sword Auto-Attack chain. He needs to dodge but can’t because he on the 2nd or 3rd attack and it won’t let him. So he gets hit
• BadPlayer is using his Sword Auto-Attack and just doesn’t even try to dodge. So he gets hit.
  There is no difference. One player wanted to play well and dodge, but the game didn’t allow it for seemingly no reason at all so he ended up with the same result as the player who was just obliviously auto-attacking.

Sure, you can turn off auto-attack, but now you:

• Still can’t cancel mid-animation.
• Are lowering your DPS with the weapon.

I fail to see anything good about any of this.

I certainly don’t see anything with the current incarnation that provides a higher skill cap.

Sebrent.3625:

Malchior.1928:

I actually really like the skill cap for sword main hand. Please don’t fix what isn’t broken.

I think where we differ in opinion is in our definitions.

I don’t think allowing players to cancel the 2nd and 3rd attacks in the Ranger Sword Auto-attack chain with a dodge roll, sheathing your weapon, and/or other means would lower the skill cap for the sword.

Additionally, it makes using it in PvE rather annoying.

Sure, you can turn off auto-attack, but now you:

• Still can’t cancel mid-animation.
• Are lowering your DPS with the weapon.

I fail to see anything good about any of this.

I certainly don’t see anything with the current incarnation that provides a higher skill cap.

It seems to me that you are using sword because you want the DPS increase. Instead of changing sword, why not make a plea for a buff to GS auto attack damage.

That way, you still get your optimal damage, and the unique mechanics of sword aren’t homogenized.

Alternatively, guardian has a good auto attack that doesn’t require play around.

Sebrent.3625:

Sure, you can turn off auto-attack, but now you:

• Still can’t cancel mid-animation.
• Are lowering your DPS with the weapon.

As for these two points:

One doesn’t need to cancel mid-animation if they aren’t mindlessly spamming 1111, a problem that effectively renders turning auto-attack off pointless. A bit more thoughtful 1 pressing in itself would most likely render this issue a moot point.

As for lowering the DPS of the weapon. Wouldn’t that effectively close the dps gap between GS and sword? Hence, normalize the expected dps of a ranger using one of those two weapons in most scenarios.

When in the world would you ever be able to ‘maximize DPS’ anyway? I guess maybe in PvE if the target isn’t moving at all…but you will never get more than 2-3 hits off at a time in PvP.

Also for the millionth time, if you remove the leaps, you are removing the chasedown potential. That is just not acceptable to me.

Malchior.1928:

It seems to me that you are using sword because you want the DPS increase. Instead of changing sword, why not make a plea for a buff to GS auto attack damage.

You only think about one aspect of the dps advantage sword has over greatsword. But you forget sword is the superior dps weapon because of the traits associated with it:

- steady focus increase dps by 10% while endurance is full. This is only possible because sword has 2 built in evades on a relatively short cooldown that greatsword doesn’t have. Even the block wouldn’t be enough to fully take advantage of that trait. you are therefore loosing a 10% damage modifier.

- Predator onslaught increase dps by 10% for the ranger and 5% for the pet while target is crippled. This is THE trait that makes sword the best dps weapon ranger have at it’s disposal because it can cripple a mob for the entire duration of the fight. You would loose another 15% dps modifier with greatsword even if they buff the AA speed.

- to a lesser degree sword increase dps by giving might to your pet which greatsword doesn’t. I don’t have the exact numbers on this one though.

Malchior.1928:

One doesn’t need to cancel mid-animation if they aren’t mindlessly spamming 1111, a problem that effectively renders turning auto-attack off pointless. A bit more thoughtful 1 pressing in itself would most likely render this issue a moot point.

The point isn’t there, even if you take all the precautions you want you will still get stuck in animation while performing the second and 3rd part of the aa chain therefore loosing control of your character. and if a boss decide to attack you while you’re in animation well, goodluck.

Malchior.1928:

As for lowering the DPS of the weapon. Wouldn’t that effectively close the dps gap between GS and sword? Hence, normalize the expected dps of a ranger using one of those two weapons in most scenarios.

I don’t want to sound lie i’m trying to break your argumentation but why should we normalize the dps of the weapons while no other classes have 2 weapons who deal the same amount of damage.

Gotejjeken.1267:

When in the world would you ever be able to ‘maximize DPS’ anyway? I guess maybe in PvE if the target isn’t moving at all…but you will never get more than 2-3 hits off at a time in PvP.

Also for the millionth time, if you remove the leaps, you are removing the chasedown potential. That is just not acceptable to me.

I can totally agree with you here. The problem that sword have is that the pvp and pve community are divided on the matter making it nearly impossible to find a solution that please both side.

On one side pvp players want to keep the sticky potential that sword have not really caring about maximising dps.

And on the other pve players want to be able to max-melee range without reducing their dps.

Fairytayl.1035:

I don’t want to sound lie i’m trying to break your argumentation but why should we normalize the dps of the weapons while no other classes have 2 weapons who deal the same amount of damage.

Axe and GS are extremely close for warrior. No reason GS and Sword for ranger can’t be like that.

Tbh I would be pleased if the game remembered I pressed dodge mid leap & executed it after the leap was over, or if it broke the leap. Reworking how dodging works would be a quality of life change for everyone, not just us rangers.

I don’t understand why I can’t interrupt the second and third auto-attack on the Sword auto-attack when an engineer can use their Elixir gun’s [Acid Leap] which should leap them backwards 550 distance, but if they immediately weapon swap out of that kit after casting it, it interrupts the leap and they just get the Acid. They use this little trick all the time in order to get that extra damage without risking having mobs chase them out of the pile they clumped them up in for PvE.

Mesmers cancel the end of the Greatsword auto-attack animation after the 3rd tick in order to get a faster attack speed.

There are all sorts of little tricks like this where the weapon (or kit) was programmed to be responsive and allow for these various tricks. What we’re asking for isn’t even a trick, it’s to simply be able to interrupt my action in order to dodge roll.

On no other class am I aware of any attack that prevents you from interrupting it in order to dodge roll. I’d be okay with this “uniqueness” if we gained something from it, but we don’t.

It doesn’t even provide a higher skill cap … it makes it a lower skill cap given that the person trying to dodge and the person obliviously spamming 111111 get the same result (no dodge; smacked in the face).

We shouldn’t have to lose the leap in order to be able to interrupt it … as shown by the Engineer Elixir Gun trick; amongst others.

Trust me, I’m with the rest of you about the leap … I want it to stay. Just, given the evidence of interruptable leaps, I don’t see why the one on our auto-attack isn’t interruptable with a dodge roll in a game where dodge rolls are a required part of gameplay in both PvP and PvE.

I agree with Serbent. Why can I break the animation with weapon switching but not with a dodge? Anyway, I still think a trait which offers both versions would be the most clean solution.

I’m sorry, but I have to disagree that a trait would be a good answer to this.

How would that trait read? Now you can interrupt your ability (like other classes already can) in order to dodge roll?

Who would not take that trait? People that don’t want to interrupt it with a dodge, but if they don’t want to interrupt it with a dodge, all they have to do is not dodge mid-attack.

A trait for this is like a utility for basic pet control … we shouldn’t have to pay extra to get basic functionality that should come standard.

Sebrent.3625:

Who would not take that trait? People that don’t want to interrupt it with a dodge, but if they don’t want to interrupt it with a dodge, all they have to do is not dodge mid-attack.

They would probably not get that trait:

Ariete.6509:

Malchior.1928:

I actually really like the skill cap for sword main hand. Please don’t fix what isn’t broken.

@Belzebu:
They wouldn’t even need to care whether or not that “trait” existed. It could be forced upon them (e.g. not a trait, but just fixed) and they could continue doing what they do now … not dodging.

A trait to “fix” the issues with sword is a horrible idea.

Sebrent.3625:

@Belzebu:
They wouldn’t even need to care whether or not that “trait” existed. It could be forced upon them (e.g. not a trait, but just fixed) and they could continue doing what they do now … not dodging.

The trait would change the chain to non control locking attacks aka no more leaping. Think of it more similiar to any other chain like warrior sword but still giving might stacks to pet on 3rd hit etc.

That or make the no leap thing the normal version and let the trait add the leaping again so that people that like it (which as you can see are quite a few according to this thread) can keep the original version.

The trait is not supposed to be a fix, then they could just fix it. It is supposed to make a much hated mechanic alternative instead of forcing it onto people. We kind of have 2 groups right now, some hate it, some want it.

I think the two groups are:

• We don’t want to lose the leap
• We want to be able to dodge during auto-attacks #2 and #3 in the chain

I do not understand why people think we can’t have both. I’ve already cited instances where other classes are able to have both.

I believe we should be able to have the leap and be able to cancel it with a dodge roll and it not require a trait point.

My concern is that the developer(s)that coded up the other classes’ abilities did a good job while the developer(s) that coded up the Ranger sword auto-attacks “coded like a pig” and now it’s a mess that will be hard to fix :-/

To be honest for me it isn’t just not being able to dodge roll. I also don’t like it when my character leaps after the target during the autoattack since it kind of allows the enemy to determine my movement.

I think that is a separate discussion than being able to interrupt the attack to perform a dodge.

Whether or not you like the leap seems unrelated to whether or not you want to be able to dodge when you need to.

Dojo.1867:

To be honest for me it isn’t just not being able to dodge roll. I also don’t like it when my character leaps after the target during the autoattack since it kind of allows the enemy to determine my movement.

If you aren’t leaping after your target, what makes you think that you would not instead be chasing the enemy? Either way an opponent would predict your movement.

Skill 3 in the auto attack gives a lot of in combat mobility. If you want to be less predictable in combat you could use this more strategically.

I don’t think I would mind being able to cancel the chain, however I think it could be hard to program around. I am not sure if there are specific cancel windows built in now, or if certain skills are cancellable by happenstance.

In this case, there would need to be a very small window of time in which to be able to cancel the attack, as after that window you would need to be locked in to preserve the chasedown functionality.

@Gotejjeken: What makes you think this?

(1) Jump on an Engineer
(2) Equip Elixir Gun
(3) Use #4 (Acid Bomb)
(4) Swap out the Elixir Gun at any time during that 550 range leap

You’ll find that you are able to interrupt it at any distance of the leap.

If it is possible for that ability, I don’t see why it would be impossible for our shorter 300 and 430 range leaps.

Additionally, the “chasedown functionality” comes from it simply performing these leaps directly at your target (or direction you’re facing if you have no target). Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see why that would need to lock people out of dodge rolls in order to “preserve the chasedown functionality”.

No need for traits for whatever… Easiest solution is just to have people choose what they want it to be like with ‘Melee Assist’.

Wondrouswall.7169:

No need for traits for whatever… Easiest solution is just to have people choose what they want it to be like with ‘Melee Assist’.

Hehe, that’s great Too bad it will never happen, even less likely than the trait.

Gotejjeken.1267:

I don’t think I would mind being able to cancel the chain, however I think it could be hard to program around. I am not sure if there are specific cancel windows built in now, or if certain skills are cancellable by happenstance.

In this case, there would need to be a very small window of time in which to be able to cancel the attack, as after that window you would need to be locked in to preserve the chasedown functionality.

If you consider the fact that a weapon swap will instantly break the chain, there must be some sort of “cancel current action” implemented into that piece of code.
If they were to grab that piece of code, and put that into the code for dodging, I see how it would be possible. There are of course lots of solutions to this problem though.

Nothing is impossible when it comes to coding, and fixing this issue with dodge overriding any action is of course indeed possible.

It’s only a matter if Anet wants to do it or not, and for the time being, they don’t.

You can also macro a key, so that while you have that key (or mouse button) pressed, it “channels” the #1 attack of sword, and the moment you let go it will instantly stop. An alternative to hammering the #1 key manually.

The honest truth is that the mechanic is liked by too many (including myself) rangers and is working as intended as far as the devs are concerned, so even though this same exact thread is almost always persistent on the front page, it’s still the same old like/dislike arguments.

That being said, the only “reasonable” suggestion that I barely, if ever, see suggested is this: keep the autoattack “stick to” target theme the same, but change the sword autoattack animation from animations that can’t be canceled to ones that can, like lunges (slice foe, lunge forward and cripple your foe, lunge again etc).

Ranger sword is my favorite melee weapon in this game, particularly the autoattack. Thief sword with and only with dagger to keep constant cripple is my second favorite. Every other melee weapon in this game is horrendously bland and useful almost exclusively in PvE since in PvP the autoattacks are near functionless and will rarely be useful against a functional player. Some potential outliers exist, like thief dagger and warrior sword, but their uses are very much dictated by the intelligence of the opponent and not the capacity of the player to wield them, making them imo more lackluster overall than options like the ranger sword which is a universally incredible tool and whose skill ceiling provides endless capabilities (in the realm of GW2 capabilities).

Sebrent.3625:

@Gotejjeken: What makes you think this?

(1) Jump on an Engineer
(2) Equip Elixir Gun
(3) Use #4 (Acid Bomb)
(4) Swap out the Elixir Gun at any time during that 550 range leap

You’ll find that you are able to interrupt it at any distance of the leap.

If it is possible for that ability, I don’t see why it would be impossible for our shorter 300 and 430 range leaps.

Additionally, the “chasedown functionality” comes from it simply performing these leaps directly at your target (or direction you’re facing if you have no target). Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see why that would need to lock people out of dodge rolls in order to “preserve the chasedown functionality”.

You can’t say because X works, Y should too….that is not how Anet’s programming works. Otherwise we would be able to perma stow our pets, because other classes can ‘stow’ theirs (clones, minions, etc.)

Also you are talking about canceling a single leap, this would be canceling a chained leap. Something tells me these two are not equivalent.

As I said, I wouldn’t care either way if we could cancel out with a dodge or if they leave it as-is. I don’t spam the skill, and I have never had an issue of moving out of the way of something when I need to.

The Devs could keep the current auto on sword and add the ability to swap to the normal sword chain other classes have by right-clicking (or whatever) the auto attack chain icon to change our style on the fly.

Should keep both sides are happy and add an extra layer to our class. Beats my previous post of opening up the options menu every time. Maybe alter the normal attack chain so it’s different vs the current – give it pros and cons.

Gotejjeken.1267:

Sebrent.3625:

@Gotejjeken: What makes you think this?

(1) Jump on an Engineer
(2) Equip Elixir Gun
(3) Use #4 (Acid Bomb)
(4) Swap out the Elixir Gun at any time during that 550 range leap

You’ll find that you are able to interrupt it at any distance of the leap.

If it is possible for that ability, I don’t see why it would be impossible for our shorter 300 and 430 range leaps.

Additionally, the “chasedown functionality” comes from it simply performing these leaps directly at your target (or direction you’re facing if you have no target). Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see why that would need to lock people out of dodge rolls in order to “preserve the chasedown functionality”.

You can’t say because X works, Y should too….that is not how Anet’s programming works. Otherwise we would be able to perma stow our pets, because other classes can ‘stow’ theirs (clones, minions, etc.)

Also you are talking about canceling a single leap, this would be canceling a chained leap. Something tells me these two are not equivalent.

As I said, I wouldn’t care either way if we could cancel out with a dodge or if they leave it as-is. I don’t spam the skill, and I have never had an issue of moving out of the way of something when I need to.

Perma stow has nothing to do with this. That’s purely a design decision.

Blaming this on code is laughable. How will they add new skills if they cannot even do this much? Just think about it, from a coding standpoint they could just add a single new chain-skill, use the same tooltip names & delete the old one (or just make it become invisible, still available to pve mobs whatever) This is Arena net’s game, if they cannot even modify/replace a single skill what can they do? This is merely a problem with priorities, which is kind of wrong in this case seeing how ridiculously popular ranger is right now, in every game mode too.

Code-wise, it’s simply allow the dodge roll action (and animation) to interrupt the current chain-attack.

@jcbroe: that is what I’ve always advocated for this weapon. I don’t want it to lose any of its flavor. I just want more control over it. Losing control for an entire attack animation is not desireable :-( Everything else about sword is quite desireable. I have never seen any reason why we couldnt’ have both.