Guild Wars 2

I’ve read here that sword is our highest DPS melee option, but I’m not seeing it in the skill descriptions themselves. Granted I’m only level 66 right now, but I’m curious what I’m missing.

A few minutes ago I was in Harathi Hinterlands (level 36 or so at the time), and I just swapped weapons around to read the descriptions. Greatsword auto was something like 294, 294, 347 over 1.75 seconds. Sword was 251, 251, 293, and I assume over a shorter time (I forgot to write it down). Greatsword’s 2 skill is Maul, which did 854 damage and added 5% vulnerability too. Sword’s # 2, if you include the sting and the leap (which takes a while) does 700 damage combined. Greatsword (swoop) is a gap closer and does 534 damage, Sword 3 does 655 if you include the poison damage.

Now if you factor in off-hands, then I can see sword doing better. I actually really enjoy the torch offhand, not just because seeing enemies on fire is fun, but because they are both “fire and forget” abilities that do DOT damage while you do other stuff.

What I have noticed in PVE so far though, even though sword and torch is more fun, is that I take more damage with sword/torch. The “root” of sword auto-attack, the fact that it sometimes it not an easy AOE auto like Greatsword, and primarily the fact that for over 1/3 of the auto chain I am evading with GS. Greatsword’s other skills seem to have pretty short cooldowns as well, but again I forgot to write those down. For single targets I find that most enemies are almost dead after GS 3, then 2.

What am I missing in the “DPS” calcs? Is it the offhand weapon? Have others had a similar experience? Thanks for your help.

(I am shooting for 20/25/25, and for ranged I use Longbow).

This is dynamic game, so obviously you can’t just compare damage, and say one is better then the other based only on that. The greatsword is a great burst weapon with some really good escape abilities, and sword is a great snare weapon with some good evasive abilities. Both have their different uses, and are only good or bad depending on the build you play.

Sword has better DPS, GS has way better survival.

Sword does around 20-30% more DPS according to theory crafters, but they only took into consideration the auto attack, i personally think in the field, the difference is a bit less with mawl, and the vuln is a plus for the team.

You cant go for the tooltip time
GS chain is ~2,5 sec
Sword is ~1,75

Uh….Lets use some math, so everyone can understand why the Sword does more damage.

(all damage numbers, activation times, and Cooldown taken from wiki)

Sword
Slash : 202 (1/2 sec)
Kick : 202 (1/4 sec) and a cripple
Pounce : 235 (3/4 sec) and might for pet

202 + 202 + 235 = 639 / 1.5 seconds = 426 DPS Gives might to your pet. Also a cripple

Hornet’s Sting : 235 (1/2 sec)
Monarch’s Leap : 336 (3/4 sec) and a cripple
also an 8 second recharge

235 + 336 = 571 / 9.25 seconds = 62 DPS

Serpent’s Sting : 235 (1 second) + 504 poison
Also a 15 second recharge
235 + 504 = 739 / 16 seconds = 46 DPS

Greatsword
Slash : 203 (1/2 sec)
Slice : 203 (1/2 sec)
Power Stab : 240 (3/4 sec)

203 + 203 + 240 = 646 / 1.75 seconds = 369 DPS Plus 1 second Evade

Maul : 434 (3/4 sec)
also a 6 second recharge

434 / 6.75 seconds = 64 DPS

Swoop : 327 (1 3/4 sec)
also a 12 second recharge

327 / 13.75 seconds = 24 DPS

First off, Autoattack is King when it comes to DPS, forget the other skills. Second, The Sword does more DPS, especially after you add in basic pet DPS for both, then add in the Might you can give your pet from the Sword’s auto attack. You pet also gains might for each enemy you hit on Pounce (up to three stacks each time). After you add the damage from the Torch or Warhorn, the Sword’s total damage will end up far outdoing the Greatsword.

The sword also attacks faster and gives more chances to proc Companion’s Might.

Greatsword for PvP, imo. The mobility from Swoop is too good.

For PvE, use what you’re comfortable and have fun with. Any weapon can succeed. DPS charts only begin to matter when you are running dungeons with people who care about clear time.

Greatsword stopped being a dps weapon when anet nerfed it’s auto attack by 50%, during BWE3

Even if GS did eek out a bit ahead of the sword, a sword/warhorn ranger would probably be preferred in a group since they can give 100% fury uptime with a red moa and can help stack might since the warhorn also gives a blast finisher.

Also, you stack your pet with might and while that’s not a big benefit, it should be taken into account as well.

Now, personally, I’m not a fan of the 1h sword at all since the mechanics behind the 1h attack make me a sad panda. I think the GS has a much better feel to it, between the leap, block, and normal auto attack, but it lacks a lot of the utility that you get from bringing a warhorn. =(

Dahkeus.8243:

Even if GS did eek out a bit ahead of the sword, a sword/warhorn ranger would probably be preferred in a group since they can give 100% fury uptime with a red moa and can help stack might since the warhorn also gives a blast finisher.

Also, you stack your pet with might and while that’s not a big benefit, it should be taken into account as well.

Now, personally, I’m not a fan of the 1h sword at all since the mechanics behind the 1h attack make me a sad panda. I think the GS has a much better feel to it, between the leap, block, and normal auto attack, but it lacks a lot of the utility that you get from bringing a warhorn. =(

Gs lacks in utility? It’s all utility. It’s a support weapon and that’s the problem. Auto really does need a dramatic increase in damage. If not, then give the class a trait to allow us to swap weapons faster so we can swap in to use maul and leave without concern much like how Warriors work.

Dahkeus.8243:

I think the GS has a much better feel to it, between the leap, block, and normal auto attack, but it lacks a lot of the utility that you get from bringing a warhorn. =(

Why not just take Sword/Warhorn as your 2nd set then? You still get the utility of the warhorn every 30 seconds by swapping.

Atherakhia.4086:

Dahkeus.8243:

Even if GS did eek out a bit ahead of the sword, a sword/warhorn ranger would probably be preferred in a group since they can give 100% fury uptime with a red moa and can help stack might since the warhorn also gives a blast finisher.

Also, you stack your pet with might and while that’s not a big benefit, it should be taken into account as well.

Now, personally, I’m not a fan of the 1h sword at all since the mechanics behind the 1h attack make me a sad panda. I think the GS has a much better feel to it, between the leap, block, and normal auto attack, but it lacks a lot of the utility that you get from bringing a warhorn. =(

Gs lacks in utility? It’s all utility. It’s a support weapon and that’s the problem. Auto really does need a dramatic increase in damage. If not, then give the class a trait to allow us to swap weapons faster so we can swap in to use maul and leave without concern much like how Warriors work.

I should clarify: The utility that the GS brings is primarily personal survival. You get a little vuln stacking from maul and a knockdown that is occasionally marginally helpful on trash.

However, the group benefit from fury and might stacking trumps the short duration 3 stack vuln from mauls.

I’m with the numbers guy, math ftw.

Chrispy.5641:

(all damage numbers, activation times, and Cooldown taken from wiki)

Sword
Slash : 202 (1/2 sec)
Kick : 202 (1/4 sec) and a cripple
Pounce : 235 (3/4 sec) and might for pet

202 + 202 + 235 = 639 / 1.5 seconds = 426 DPS Gives might to your pet. Also a cripple

The skill activation times don’t include after-cast and animation delays, so aren’t quite right for a DPS calculation. If you leave your character attacking a practice dummy and time a hundred or so attacks, you’ll get a more accurate time.

Sword
Autoattack has coefficients 0.6, 0.6, 0.7 and a cycle time of 1.8 sec. So its coefficient DPS is (0.6+0.6+0.7)/1.8 = 1.056 c/s.

Serpent’s Strike (#3 skill). Unfortunately I haven’t figured out a way to measure total skill cast time for the cooldown skills, so I have to use the 1 sec cast time. The #3 skill has a 0.7 coefficient, 1 sec cast time, so it coefficient DPS is 0.7 c/s.

If you take the case of level 80, 2100 power, 0 condition damage, 50% crit chance, 100% crit damage, and exotic sword (942 damage) against 2400 armor, these numbers resolve to:
((942)(2100)(1.056)/(2400))(1+.5(.5+1)) = 1523 DPS for autoattack
((942)(2100)(0.7)/(2400))(1+.5(.5+1)) = 1010 DPS for SS direct damage
((4 + 80)+(0.1*0))*6 / 1 = 504 DPS for SS poison damage (for the 1 sec it takes to apply)

SS then does 1514 DPS total, so it’s actually a decrease in DPS from autoattack (for this build). Since it reduces your DPS, I only use it to evade.

Hornet’s Sting/Monarch’s Leap is even worse because of the leap away and back. I only use it to evade if my #3 is on cooldown, or to withdraw.

Greatsword
Autoattack has coefficients 0.55, 0.55, 0.65 and a cycle time of 2.54 sec. So its coefficient DPS is (0.55+0.55+0.65)/2.54 = 0.689 c/s.

Maul after the upgrade should have a coefficient of 1.6 and a 3/4 sec cast time. That gives it a coefficient DPS of 1.6/0.75 = 2.133 c/s.

The 5 stacks of vulnerability for 8 sec on a 6.75 sec cycle (0.75 sec cast + 6 sec cooldown) will give you 5*8/6.75 = 5.9 vulnerability on average, so a sustained 5.9% extra damage.

tl;dr
Total coefficient DPS if you spam Maul then is:
( (0.689)(6) + (2.133)(.75) ) * 1.059 / 6.75 = 0.900 c/s

So sword’s autoattack does about 17% more DPS than GS autoattack + Maul.

I’ll skip the math, but if you take the martial mastery trait, Maul’s cooldown drops to 4.8 sec, and the average vulnerability increases to 7.2%. Its coefficient DPS increases to 0.948 c/s, and sword does 11% more DPS.

Greatsword
Slash : 203 (1/2 sec)
Slice : 203 (1/2 sec)
Power Stab : 240 (3/4 sec)

203 + 203 + 240 = 646 / 1.75 seconds = 369 DPS Plus 1 second Evade

Maul : 434 (3/4 sec)
also a 6 second recharge

434 / 6.75 seconds = 64 DPS

I don’t like calculating it that way because the numbers aren’t as useful as they seem at first glance. You stop autoattacking when you use Maul. So you can’t just add 369+64 to get total DPS. You have to add (369*6/6.75) + 64 to get the real DPS.

Since you need to do that conversion anyway, I prefer to keep it in terms of DPS per use of Maul. That’ll let me see if the skill is worth using over the autoattack (what I calculated for Serpent’s Strike vs. sword’s autoattack). Then I can do the time conversion for everything at the end to get final DPS.

OP again. Thanks for the great replies everyone. I understand it much better now. Sword seems to always do more damage.

My next question then is regarding what is better in traits if I want maximum damage – 20/25/25, or 20/20/30, or neither?

I want at least 20 in power for Spotter and also for when I pull out a bow. At 25 in the second line I get + 10 % if I am “flanking”. I assume this means attacking from a monsters side or even behind them. If I’m in melee this seems less likely, unless I am patient and let the pet engage first. At 25 in the third line condition damage is going up, and I do 10% more damage when over 90% health. What frustrates me at 25 in that 3rd line though is that I can’t get the 20% reduced cooldown for the sword AND the offhand. But if I go to 30 in that line I could get both on a 20% cooldown (sword/torch or sword/warhorn). But to get to 30 toughness I’d have to drop the Precision line to 20 points, losing my bonus when “flanking”. I’d also lose 50 points of precision, but I’d gain 50 more in toughness and condition damage.

I use Berserker gear, so my only + condition damage would be from the toughness line and stacks of might. I use the jungle stalker pet with sword/torch because the might helps the condition damage of sword 3 and torch 4 and 5, and the pet deals bleeds of his own. I may consider trying a shortbow for a change too.

Also, with 25 stacks of accuracy, I’m at about 75% crit chance before Fury. I took the buff that gives my pet Might every time I crit, and it has been a big help.

Thanks for the trait advice.

I’d say 30/30/10 if you want max direct damage.

Sword is for poison / damage / evasion

Greatsword is for burst / mobility / blocks / control

Which do you need for your build? Ask yourself that because that is where you will find your answer.