Recently i picked up my ranger from dust, and played a bit with him. I got him a sword/dagger since thats combination i hardly ever used. Weapon combo has some merits, with all those evades you are almost uncatchable.
But problem comes with sword auto-att. Not only it doesnt allow movement, but i also have to wait for half of skill chain so i could dodge. In situations where several risens are targeting your position with aoe spells only thing you can do is die while wondering why couldnt you dodge out of harms way.
Im wondering does ArenatNet recognize problem here, since sword #1 chain has nothing spectacular that would justify such heavy penalty in game where mobility is difference between staying alive and dieing horribly.
I agree. It’s because of the leap in the auto-attack. Also, has anyone else noticed that #4 (dagger skill) also has a small delay? (Doesn’t let you move/dodge for a slight delay after you use it)
You have to think about the Ranger sword as a completely different weapon to the implementation other professions use.
Try to get in the habit of using Hornet Sting and Serpent’s Strike to disengage.
But even after all this time of playing a predominantly S/T ranger, I still find myself hammering keys wondering why my double-tap dodge doesn’t work.
Relying on Hornet Sting isn’t the best call either, as even the slightest terrain undulation can break the skill.
But them’s the breaks. If you want to use a sword (and the animations ARE cool), you’ll just have to put up with the lock-on ’til they fix it.
A more useful tip is to mainly use sword in PvE and anything else in WvW/sPvP.
In any PvP environment, you’ll be dealing with intelligent targets that can easily break the sword’s auto attack, whereas in PvE, mobs just stand there and soak it up.
Exploiting the stupidity of the AI makes for some really cool condition damage builds where you can hit an enemy with almost all of the conditions in the game very quickly and have numbers spewing out of them like rats out of a sinking ship.
With a cat pet applying bleeds as well as Frost Trap and Spike Trap as utilities, my S/T Ranger can hit an enemy very quickly with burning, freezing, poison, bleeding, vulnerability and cripple. I find this far more effective than stacking one particular condition, especially as they can be judiciously re-applied, with none ever able to fully run out.
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I don’t think they can fix it. It’s just like other leap animation, think about swoop or heartseeker. In order to be “fixed” they shoud change the entire animation but at that point you won’t be able to stick to your target anymore.
I’d love the ability to use a dagger as a main hand weapon as well as opposed to only off hand. Doesn’t it make more sense for a Ranger to be able to use dagger main hand than for a mystic class such as the Elementalist? :/
[WOLF] Howlerin || Seafarer’s Rest
“They say you are what you eat.
Which is funny ‘cause I don’t remember eating a f.ing legend”
I hate the root, too, but once I learned how to time the 1 key, I’ve found sword+dagger to be my favorite weapon in PvP and PvE.
I often cheat in PvE and switch on the auto-attack, but in WvW roaming and puzzle hunting, the sword+dagger combo is mind-blowing! Thieves and Warriors flee from me, and that’s always a good feeling (pretentious flavors of the year).
Two things will help you alot with using the sword.
1. Never combine it with the dagger. The sword auto is it’s hardest hitter, and the othr two are avoidance attacks. Sword is best used in power builds and combined with Axe or WH. The dagger 4 and Sword 3 are the exact same ability with the exact same cooldown and so one will never be used. Essentially you are wasting a skill. You can use the sword in condition builds, but as one poster above stated use it with the torch.
2. The Sword auto can be cutoff at any time during the attack by simply tabbing off the target or clicking on the map somewhere unfortunately this may cause you to leap in that direction, but it works the same as a dodge. So does simply weapon switchign during the auto-attack.
Again sword/dagger is the most common combination, but it’s also the most worthless combination. Axe/Dagger, Axe/Torch, or Sword/Torch are all better for condition builds. Sword/Axe and Sword/Warhorn are better for power builds.
Again sword/dagger is the most common combination, but it’s also the most worthless combination. Axe/Dagger, Axe/Torch, or Sword/Torch are all better for condition builds. Sword/Axe and Sword/Warhorn are better for power builds.
That’s a nice opinion, bro, but its not a fact!
In a PvE fight like Subject Alpha (Crucible of Eternity), Sword+Dagger trivializes the encounter, allowing a Ranger to remain in the red AoE circles and avoid all damage.
In a PvP encounter, Dagger allows an additional evasion from classes like Warriors, Guardians, D/D Elementalists and especially Thieves. The Dagger’s ranged Cripple and Bleed are excellent while chasing a runner and waiting for a weapon swap or simply applying an extra 3 stacks of Bleed.
With that said, I’m not ruling out the effectiveness of Warhorn. The Warhorn has its place, and I carry one specifically for situations that its suited for – or for mixing it up a little.
So while I respect your opinion it is hardly a fact concerning the use of Sword and Dagger together.
Again sword/dagger is the most common combination, but it’s also the most worthless combination. Axe/Dagger, Axe/Torch, or Sword/Torch are all better for condition builds. Sword/Axe and Sword/Warhorn are better for power builds.
That’s a nice opinion, bro, but its not a fact!
In a PvE fight like Subject Alpha (Crucible of Eternity), Sword+Dagger trivializes the encounter, allowing a Ranger to remain in the red AoE circles and avoid all damage.
In a PvP encounter, Dagger allows an additional evasion from classes like Warriors, Guardians, D/D Elementalists and especially Thieves. The Dagger’s ranged Cripple and Bleed are excellent while chasing a runner and waiting for a weapon swap or simply applying an extra 3 stacks of Bleed.
With that said, I’m not ruling out the effectiveness of Warhorn. The Warhorn has its place, and I carry one specifically for situations that its suited for – or for mixing it up a little.
So while I respect your opinion it is hardly a fact concerning the use of Sword and Dagger together.
Sword/Dagger may give you an additional evade if you need to evade twice in the span of 10 seconds outside of dodging. If you need that than by all means you have bigger issues at hand than using a weapon that simply dupilcates itself. Besides Hornet Sting = way better than stalker’s strike.
My point remains Axe/Dagger maxes way more sense than sword/Dagger. Sword/Axe has better defense with WD and Sword/WH offers better damage and bufffing.
Your opinion may be your opinion, but it’s flawed logic. 3 evasions and two poisons with 10/15 second cooldowns would never be used unless you are playing an incredibly bad ele or thief who brought no dazes or lockdowns.
Like so many questions statements on builds we are missing WHEN, pve,pvp,w3 dungeons?
Pve i love sword dagger does it do .005% more or less damage than another build who gives a kitten its just fun.
Yes if im running a group i swap out for horn or if im going to be knee deep in mobs i go torch.
If your enjoying your self ( and your not killing everyone in the group )your playing it right
For any melee based skill auto-attack rotation to limit your ability to dodge for all/part of it is just ridiculous.
It should be fixed.
It is in no way a hindrance, it is the perfect skill for stopping the enemy escaping from you. Because some cant use it properly doesn’t mean it needs to be fixed, turn off auto attack if you have that much trouble with it and I mean that without trolling, it doesn’t need fixing or changing it’s one of the most effective melee attacks in the game and we have it.
So while I respect your opinion it is hardly a fact concerning the use of Sword and Dagger together.
He’s right though, if you need yet another evade then you likely have bigger problems, and if you don’t need the extra evade then dagger is a waste and the off hand is better spent on a axe for Whirling Defence, horn for buffs and speed or torch for burning fields.
The bravest animal in the land is Captain Beaky and his band.
I got LB and sword/torch as I believe that torch got the strongest skills in the entire class even if you don’t have any condition damage.
If I’m wrong , what is the strongest one ? ( off hand )
All 80es > MM necro is my best ,cleric
guard ,nades eng ,Trap thief \ranger ,signet\shout warrior, zerk mes\ele & shiro rev.
For any melee based skill auto-attack rotation to limit your ability to dodge for all/part of it is just ridiculous.
It should be fixed.
It is in no way a hindrance, it is the perfect skill for stopping the enemy escaping from you. Because some cant use it properly doesn’t mean it needs to be fixed, turn off auto attack if you have that much trouble with it and I mean that without trolling, it doesn’t need fixing or changing it’s one of the most effective melee attacks in the game and we have it.
So while I respect your opinion it is hardly a fact concerning the use of Sword and Dagger together.
He’s right though, if you need yet another evade then you likely have bigger problems, and if you don’t need the extra evade then dagger is a waste and the off hand is better spent on a axe for Whirling Defence, horn for buffs and speed or torch for burning fields.
If you need to dodge fast in middle of chain and you cant then its a hindrance. As much as its good tool for hounding it can get you killed easy.
For any melee based skill auto-attack rotation to limit your ability to dodge for all/part of it is just ridiculous.
It should be fixed.
It is in no way a hindrance, it is the perfect skill for stopping the enemy escaping from you. Because some cant use it properly doesn’t mean it needs to be fixed, turn off auto attack if you have that much trouble with it and I mean that without trolling, it doesn’t need fixing or changing it’s one of the most effective melee attacks in the game and we have it.
So while I respect your opinion it is hardly a fact concerning the use of Sword and Dagger together.
He’s right though, if you need yet another evade then you likely have bigger problems, and if you don’t need the extra evade then dagger is a waste and the off hand is better spent on a axe for Whirling Defence, horn for buffs and speed or torch for burning fields.
If you need to dodge fast in middle of chain and you cant then its a hindrance. As much as its good tool for hounding it can get you killed easy.
Turn off auto attack.
The bravest animal in the land is Captain Beaky and his band.
I got LB and sword/torch as I believe that torch got the strongest skills in the entire class even if you don’t have any condition damage.
If I’m wrong , what is the strongest one ? ( off hand )
Amen, especially when combined with Off-Hand Training, which gives Bonfire a MUCH larger radius.
Ranger condition builds should all take advantage of the number of conditions a ranger has access to, and S/T gives access to almost all except bleeding, which can be set up to proc on pet attacks.
Please note that due to restrictions placed on my account, I am only allowed 1 post per hour.
Therefore I may take some time replying to you.
…the comment was, “If you need to dodge fast in middle of chain and you can’t then it’s a hindrance”. Turning off auto attack allows you to break the chain and dodge during the chain. What is it that you don’t get?
The bravest animal in the land is Captain Beaky and his band.
…the comment was, “If you need to dodge fast in middle of chain and you can’t then it’s a hindrance”. Turning off auto attack allows you to break the chain and dodge during the chain. What is it that you don’t get?
If you turn off auto-attack, to keep up with the same DPS by the skill (and apply the same amount of cripple) you are going to have to spam 1 → Makes no difference with having auto-attack on and pressing ESC when you want to dodge.
So while I respect your opinion it is hardly a fact concerning the use of Sword and Dagger together.
He’s right though, if you need yet another evade then you likely have bigger problems, and if you don’t need the extra evade then dagger is a waste and the off hand is better spent on a axe for Whirling Defence, horn for buffs and speed or torch for burning fields.
Thanks, capuchin, sometimes people mistake facts as opinions simply because they don’t like the facts. In this day and age, people seem to think that all facts are just opinions unless they thought of it.
Deepwinter, Redundancy is a fact. Dagger 4 and Sword 3 are redundant. Your condition which is the sole reason is duplicated with a lower cooldown so reapplying the poison becomes redundant. Torch applies a seperate poison altogether.
While I still find axe to be the better choice for condition builds as bleeds are the best condition out there. Plus you have Chill, bleed, and poison. You are correct that you lose burn, but you could have your pet or crit to burn on. Axe offers the highest possibility of crit bleed or crit burn attacks since the axe hits multiple targets and even on single targets hits twice per attack.
However, I concede that with crit to bleed – sword plus torch is pretty nice.
…the comment was, “If you need to dodge fast in middle of chain and you can’t then it’s a hindrance”. Turning off auto attack allows you to break the chain and dodge during the chain. What is it that you don’t get?
If you turn off auto-attack, to keep up with the same DPS by the skill (and apply the same amount of cripple) you are going to have to spam 1 -> Makes no difference with having auto-attack on and pressing ESC when you want to dodge.
Also, I didn’t mean that in an offensive way.
The only major hinderance I can see with sword auto attack is if the character dies, stealths or somehow you drop target, you leap in a random direction which can get you killed.
I turn off auto-attack and have my 1st skill rebound to an extra mouse button. For both Sword, and timing Greatsword evasions, Ranger is one of those classes where you don’t want to have auto-attack on for melee.
I’d love the ability to use a dagger as a main hand weapon as well as opposed to only off hand. Doesn’t it make more sense for a Ranger to be able to use dagger main hand than for a mystic class such as the Elementalist? :/
You don’t have to disable auto-attack, all you have to do is cancel the action before dodging. It’s exactly the same thing but you don’t have to spam 1 to keep up with the same DPS you had when you had auto-attack on.
For any melee based skill auto-attack rotation to limit your ability to dodge for all/part of it is just ridiculous.
It should be fixed.
It is in no way a hindrance, it is the perfect skill for stopping the enemy escaping from you. Because some cant use it properly doesn’t mean it needs to be fixed, turn off auto attack if you have that much trouble with it and I mean that without trolling, it doesn’t need fixing or changing it’s one of the most effective melee attacks in the game and we have it.
I agree, there’s some great work-arounds for it, but on balance it needs fixing. It just shouldn’t be like that. Not for a 1# auto-attack based skill. Dodge is a quick reactionary skill that should be able to be used ‘at the drop of a hat’ when in melee combat and using your classes basic attacks. You should not – among other things – have to preclude the dodge with another skill/movement/key/whatever before you’re even able to dodge.
If current best workaround we’ve got really at the moment is ‘turn off auto-attack’ and spam 1, and even still, does not work properly. That in itself highlights the need to improve the skill’s function. This is an A class MMO not some free-to-play back-shelf grinder. There’s nothing wrong with expecting excellence.
