Guild Wars 2

So, if you go to the Heart of the Mists, you have the opportunity to get “steady” weapons that have normalized maximum weapon damage (the min and max damage are the same value)… Which means that all hits dealt from these weapons are constant and only vary based on the power of the specific attack being used.

…and I decided to take some numbers and some other considerations to compare and contrast Sword vs Greatsword.

Gear/Traits/Weapons – Constant across all tests
Race: Human
Gear: All basic pvp Medium armor with Superior Runes of the Ranger. No amulet.

Traits: 20 Wilderness Survival for reduced recharges, 20 Nature Magic for 5% Greatsword damage.

Weapons:
-Only Steady weapons, no sigils

Pet remained on Passive and did not provide any (de)buffs or added damage.
No additional boons were used.
———DATA———
GREATSWORD: The two skills you would be using purely for damage would be the #1 combo and Maul, as Maul is more powerful than anything the combo dishes out.

1st and 2nd hits in the #1 skill combo: 28 damage on hit, 44 on crit, 1/2 second cast times
3rd hit on the #1 combo: 33 hit, 53 crit, 3/4 second cast time
Maul (#2 skill): 56 hit, 89 crit. 3/4 second cast time, 4+3/4 second cooldown

Additional effects of the above attacks:
- All hits are AoE with a range of 150
- 3rd combo hit evades
- Maul applies 3 stacks of bleed

SWORD: Purely for damage, the auto attack is used, but the Sword has access to the offhand, which may offer added damage. However, values for Hornet Sting and Monarch Leap are included for consideration.

1st and 2nd combo attacks: 26 hit, 42 crit
3rd: 31 hit, 49 crit
Hornet Sting: 31 hit, 49 crit.
Monarch Leap: 44 hit, 70 crit

Additional Effects
-#1 combo is AoE with a range of 130
-2nd hit cripple
-3rd hit applies one stack of might to your pet (6sec) — maintains a 9-stack with no interruptions.
-Monarch Leap cripple

Warhorn birds:
Average of 92 per usage (each hit can crit, 16 hits).
(Additional effects being missed: Call of the Wild Might+Fury)

Axe off hand:
Path of Scars: 32 hit, 52 crit
Whirling Defense: 11 per hit, 18 per crit, 12 attacks each apply a stack of vulnerability (+1% damage) over 5 seconds.

……………..
What I took from this is that the damages are actually pretty balanced, but the circumstances either are used in are situational. The Greatsword is better for defense and control, while the sword most likely outputs more damage and has slightly more mobility with skill (and it has evades, for a more steep cost of damage than the Greatsword takes for defenses).

Let’s look at the comparison of damage first. We’re just going to assume we’re hitting a stationary target.
The sword does about 10% less on autoattacks than the greatsword, but of course, it is faster. Taking the casting times in to effect (ignoring ms):
Total combo time for GS: 1.75 sec
Total combo time for sword: 1.5 sec
Difference Percent: 15% — the sword is 15% faster to finish the combo.
So… I guess that means that the Greatsword with just auto attacks is about 5% behind the auto hits of the Sword. But, factoring in Maul (which hits harder than anything on the list--about 50% harder than its own 3rd combo hit), could probably account for that.

The advantages that the Sword has though, which rocket it past the Greatsword in damage-dealing:
-Its 3rd hit applies and maintains stacks of might to the pet
-Offhand abilities that allow it access to the all-powerful Warhorn and Call of the Wild, providing reliable and long-lasting Fury (and one stack of might)
-Sword specs don’t have to trait 20 in to Nature Magic to deal maximum damage, allowing swords to spec in to crit or power specs more freely

But of course, the Greatsword only has defensive advantages over the sword outside of the skills:
-The Greatsword specs easily into defensive builds that would trait Wilderness Survival and Nature Magic anyway, making it so traiting Nature Magic using the Sword would leave the Sword at a build disadvantage in comparison to the Greatsword.

So basically, the Sword can build offensively more freely and has large offensive benefits over the Greatsword, where the Greatsword can build defensively more freely and has defensive benefits over the Sword.

Buuuuuut I’m sure this will all get torn apart, so please, feel free to do so.

you can maximize you dodges with using a dagger.

hornet sting (8 second cool down)
serpent strike (15 sec)
Stalker’s Strike (10 sec)

with

LR (45 sec)
Quick shot (9 sec)

with 2 dodges.

…that’s a possible 7 dodge chain. that could readily be 9 or 10

Everybody forget something with the GS, the #3 and #4 deals good damages too.
The #5 give to your pet +50% damage on his next attack too, the GS is the best melee weapon to burst.

Da Poolp.6809:

Everybody forget something with the GS, the #3 and #4 deals good damages too.
The #5 give to your pet +50% damage on his next attack too, the GS is the best melee weapon to burst.

The problem is that the number 3 skill of the greatsword doesn’t provide It’s intentional damage. It’s still bugged and should provide more direct damage than the maul skill, but instead It does the same damage as the crippling throw (4 skill) which does roughly 400 less damage than what swoop should have done. (Mist stats)

Da Poolp.6809:

Everybody forget something with the GS, the #3 and #4 deals good damages too.
The #5 give to your pet +50% damage on his next attack too, the GS is the best melee weapon to burst.

ranger can’t burst. thats one of its problems.
PvP is controlled by burst classes and those without burst get left behind

arenta.2953:

Da Poolp.6809:

Everybody forget something with the GS, the #3 and #4 deals good damages too.
The #5 give to your pet +50% damage on his next attack too, the GS is the best melee weapon to burst.

ranger can’t burst. thats one of its problems.
PvP is controlled by burst classes and those without burst get left behind

Ranger can, not like a rogue of course, but we can. I’m testing a pure melee build, and I can deal ~10k damage in less than 3sec, without big cooldown.

Awesome post, but I tend to be a bit skeptical of the “steady” weapons with regards to weapon comparison. I mean, they’re great when you’re trying to weigh the benefit of talents or skills, but I’ve found that when I’ve done some talentless tests of one weapon vs another with normal weapons (repeating several times to average out lucky crits) and then done the same with “steady” weapons, the amount of difference between weapons is different.

I probably need to do some more testing to really confirm, but has anyone else experienced this?

Dahkeus.8243:

Awesome post, but I tend to be a bit skeptical of the “steady” weapons with regards to weapon comparison. I mean, they’re great when you’re trying to weigh the benefit of talents or skills, but I’ve found that when I’ve done some talentless tests of one weapon vs another with normal weapons (repeating several times to average out lucky crits) and then done the same with “steady” weapons, the amount of difference between weapons is different.

I probably need to do some more testing to really confirm, but has anyone else experienced this?

Steady weapons are actually a very accurate way to do it, using a steady weapon is the same as doing thousands and thousands an thousands of trials. It’s like flipping a coin that guarantees it’ll be a 50% instead of it only being that way over a huge sample (if that makes sense), so practically the GS may be better at times then the sword due to some lucky high hitting damage (IE hit max weapon damage 100 times in a row) vs a sword that hit for low damage constantly, but in the end they’re balanced, well assuming that swoop worked damage wise…

Da Poolp.6809:

arenta.2953:

Da Poolp.6809:

Everybody forget something with the GS, the #3 and #4 deals good damages too.
The #5 give to your pet +50% damage on his next attack too, the GS is the best melee weapon to burst.

ranger can’t burst. thats one of its problems.
PvP is controlled by burst classes and those without burst get left behind

Ranger can, not like a rogue of course, but we can. I’m testing a pure melee build, and I can deal ~10k damage in less than 3sec, without big cooldown.

Actually rangers can burst just as heavy and well as thieves, its just that no one knows how to control pets properly. I can do a 15-20k burst in under 3 seconds.

NaturalPortman.9562:

Da Poolp.6809:

arenta.2953:

Da Poolp.6809:

Everybody forget something with the GS, the #3 and #4 deals good damages too.
The #5 give to your pet +50% damage on his next attack too, the GS is the best melee weapon to burst.

ranger can’t burst. thats one of its problems.
PvP is controlled by burst classes and those without burst get left behind

Ranger can, not like a rogue of course, but we can. I’m testing a pure melee build, and I can deal ~10k damage in less than 3sec, without big cooldown.

Actually rangers can burst just as heavy and well as thieves, its just that no one knows how to control pets properly. I can do a 15-20k burst in under 3 seconds.

I was talking without our pet, but I agree, 90% of rangers don’t know how to use it.

Da Poolp.6809:

Everybody forget something with the GS, the #3 and #4 deals good damages too.
The #5 give to your pet +50% damage on his next attack too, the GS is the best melee weapon to burst.

On the other hand when you look at ways to increase pet damage. There is might stacking, speccing in beastmastery + MB trait stat boost, and specific traits that increase crit damage condition damage etc…

So sword 1 increases pet damage + ranger damage(Initial post is unclear if the damage numbers are pulled at 9 or 0 might stacks) while GS 5 adds the +50% every 25 seconds etc….

It’s pretty hard to analyze particularly with the variability of the pet snare benefit etc….

It would be very helpful if the combat log reported pet damage to us so we could do some full ranger damage envelope analysis. Condition damage reporting as well.

Yea, half of me really wishes that there were better ways to pull data on damage like there is in WoW, but the other half of me is glad that I don’t have to deal with people that judge all performance in the game based upon a dps report.

NaturalPortman.9562:

Da Poolp.6809:

arenta.2953:

Da Poolp.6809:

Everybody forget something with the GS, the #3 and #4 deals good damages too.
The #5 give to your pet +50% damage on his next attack too, the GS is the best melee weapon to burst.

ranger can’t burst. thats one of its problems.
PvP is controlled by burst classes and those without burst get left behind

Ranger can, not like a rogue of course, but we can. I’m testing a pure melee build, and I can deal ~10k damage in less than 3sec, without big cooldown.

Actually rangers can burst just as heavy and well as thieves, its just that no one knows how to control pets properly. I can do a 15-20k burst in under 3 seconds.

What do you mean a 25 stacked might lightning breathe is overpowered? It’s CLEARLY broken, I mean c’mon, it’s not like my pets can hit you with his auto attack!!

If your pet cooperates, bursting on a Ranger is actually very easy. Also, if you build for it, drakes can unleash an unholy amount of damage in a couple seconds by themselves.

I’ve been using greatsword a little more since the buff to Maul and I can verify that actual application matches the results here pretty accurately. Sword/dagger is much quicker to kill in general, but with a series of crits on the greatsword, fights can be over pretty quickly.

They’re about even in my opinion, but sword/dagger is a little better in PvP and greatsword performs a little better in PvE.

Durzlla.6295:

NaturalPortman.9562:

Da Poolp.6809:

arenta.2953:

Da Poolp.6809:

Everybody forget something with the GS, the #3 and #4 deals good damages too.
The #5 give to your pet +50% damage on his next attack too, the GS is the best melee weapon to burst.

ranger can’t burst. thats one of its problems.
PvP is controlled by burst classes and those without burst get left behind

Ranger can, not like a rogue of course, but we can. I’m testing a pure melee build, and I can deal ~10k damage in less than 3sec, without big cooldown.

Actually rangers can burst just as heavy and well as thieves, its just that no one knows how to control pets properly. I can do a 15-20k burst in under 3 seconds.

What do you mean a 25 stacked might lightning breathe is overpowered? It’s CLEARLY broken, I mean c’mon, it’s not like my pets can hit you with his auto attack!!

Anyone that stands still long enough to get hit by lightning breath in PvP deserves to to be gibbed.

Dahkeus.8243:

Durzlla.6295:

NaturalPortman.9562:

Da Poolp.6809:

arenta.2953:

Da Poolp.6809:

Everybody forget something with the GS, the #3 and #4 deals good damages too.
The #5 give to your pet +50% damage on his next attack too, the GS is the best melee weapon to burst.

ranger can’t burst. thats one of its problems.
PvP is controlled by burst classes and those without burst get left behind

Ranger can, not like a rogue of course, but we can. I’m testing a pure melee build, and I can deal ~10k damage in less than 3sec, without big cooldown.

Actually rangers can burst just as heavy and well as thieves, its just that no one knows how to control pets properly. I can do a 15-20k burst in under 3 seconds.

What do you mean a 25 stacked might lightning breathe is overpowered? It’s CLEARLY broken, I mean c’mon, it’s not like my pets can hit you with his auto attack!!

Anyone that stands still long enough to get hit by lightning breath in PvP deserves to to be gibbed.

Why use lightning breath when you can go double ravens

nldixon.8514:

If your pet cooperates, bursting on a Ranger is actually very easy. Also, if you build for it, drakes can unleash an unholy amount of damage in a couple seconds by themselves.

Good luck getting your drakes to land their specials in spvp. Not even in when you’re in melee range swapping to a drake and instantly use its F2 ability (under quickness), you can be sure to land its attack. They simply take to much time to get their special attack out.

OGDeadHead.8326:

nldixon.8514:

If your pet cooperates, bursting on a Ranger is actually very easy. Also, if you build for it, drakes can unleash an unholy amount of damage in a couple seconds by themselves.

Good luck getting your drakes to land their specials in spvp. Not even in when you’re in melee range swapping to a drake and instantly use its F2 ability (under quickness), you can be sure to land its attack. They simply take to much time to get their special attack out.

We do have immobilizes, and classes in tpvp often sit on defined areas to prevent cap flipping. (assuming you use lightning and not the cone.). Lightning really isn’t hard to get off if you choose the right anchor.

Now in an open field wvw fight…..

OGDeadHead.8326:

nldixon.8514:

If your pet cooperates, bursting on a Ranger is actually very easy. Also, if you build for it, drakes can unleash an unholy amount of damage in a couple seconds by themselves.

Good luck getting your drakes to land their specials in spvp. Not even in when you’re in melee range swapping to a drake and instantly use its F2 ability (under quickness), you can be sure to land its attack. They simply take to much time to get their special attack out.

Drakes aren’t the only burst pet. Jaguars are probably the easiest to burst with, but even pets that don’t have heavy burst F2 abilities can be used for burst with the right setup.

OGDeadHead.8326:

nldixon.8514:

If your pet cooperates, bursting on a Ranger is actually very easy. Also, if you build for it, drakes can unleash an unholy amount of damage in a couple seconds by themselves.

Good luck getting your drakes to land their specials in spvp. Not even in when you’re in melee range swapping to a drake and instantly use its F2 ability (under quickness), you can be sure to land its attack. They simply take to much time to get their special attack out.

It’s not that hard if you know what you’re doing. It just take timing and practice. Granted, you’re not going to get it off if you’re just casting at someone or something running around like crazy, but if you set it up, it works pretty well.

I was running a drakehound/drake combo for a while with a greatsword and with the right timing you can have your drakehound pounce, immobilize, swap to your drake, pop QZ, start the F2 cast, whack them with Hilt Bash, then cackle in glee as half their health (or more) disappears.

Of course it can be done. Vs good players, not so much.

OGDeadHead.8326:

Of course it can be done. Vs good players, not so much.

That’s where the timing part comes in. If you know when to hold off and when to unleash it, you can pretty much guarantee that it’ll hit. If you blow all your CDs as soon as you see someone, chances are they’re going to have at least one stun/root break available and it’s gonna miss.

The trick is knowing what cards your enemy has and waiting for them to play them.

OGDeadHead.8326:

Of course it can be done. Vs good players, not so much.

You know what you can get it off on every time? A bunker, they absolute refuse to leave their point and the drakes breathe can hit the entire point (except graveyard that ones huge!!) meaning you either force them off the point or they eat the whole electrocute.

And what part of immob and stun don’t you get? It doesn’t matter how good you are if you’re a sitting duck!!

Durzlla.6295:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Of course it can be done. Vs good players, not so much.

You know what you can get it off on every time? A bunker, they absolute refuse to leave their point and the drakes breathe can hit the entire point (except graveyard that ones huge!!) meaning you either force them off the point or they eat the whole electrocute.

And what part of immob and stun don’t you get? It doesn’t matter how good you are if you’re a sitting duck!!

Mist form, condition removal, stun break, etc. etc.

There are plenty of counters to this, especially since the drake has a HUUUUUGE wind up. And you don’t have to run far to dodge a drake’s LB, you just casually take two steps to the left and laugh as the pet sits rooted blasting away into nothing.

But yea, if you get a bad player that blows all their cooldowns the first time they get CCed at all, you probably can root them and hit them.

Dahkeus.8243:

Durzlla.6295:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Of course it can be done. Vs good players, not so much.

You know what you can get it off on every time? A bunker, they absolute refuse to leave their point and the drakes breathe can hit the entire point (except graveyard that ones huge!!) meaning you either force them off the point or they eat the whole electrocute.

And what part of immob and stun don’t you get? It doesn’t matter how good you are if you’re a sitting duck!!

Mist form, condition removal, stun break, etc. etc.

There are plenty of counters to this, especially since the drake has a HUUUUUGE wind up. And you don’t have to run far to dodge a drake’s LB, you just casually take two steps to the left and laugh as the pet sits rooted blasting away into nothing.

But yea, if you get a bad player that blows all their cooldowns the first time they get CCed at all, you probably can root them and hit them.

Yup, you know, LB isn’t a 180 degree AoE or anything… and the fact you completely ignore the whole “you can bait them!” thing is kinda sad… you can hit F2 again to cancel it, making them completely WASTE that stun breaker or w/e and then you can launch another one off in a short amount of time, especially if you’re running spider + drake build where you use the immob from spider and then chain it into the drake.

Dahkeus.8243:

Durzlla.6295:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Of course it can be done. Vs good players, not so much.

You know what you can get it off on every time? A bunker, they absolute refuse to leave their point and the drakes breathe can hit the entire point (except graveyard that ones huge!!) meaning you either force them off the point or they eat the whole electrocute.

And what part of immob and stun don’t you get? It doesn’t matter how good you are if you’re a sitting duck!!

Mist form, condition removal, stun break, etc. etc.

There are plenty of counters to this, especially since the drake has a HUUUUUGE wind up. And you don’t have to run far to dodge a drake’s LB, you just casually take two steps to the left and laugh as the pet sits rooted blasting away into nothing.

But yea, if you get a bad player that blows all their cooldowns the first time they get CCed at all, you probably can root them and hit them.

At some point even good players have to use their condition removals and stun breaks. That’s what makes great players great. They know when to use an ability and when to hold on to it.

With quickness up, the breath attack doesn’t really take that long. It sometimes seems excruciatingly slow, but it (usually) goes off in plenty of time to catch someone who’s crippled, rooted, stunned, or chilled.

It doesn’t always work, but if it didn’t require some amount of skill to use, everybody and their brother would be running around with drakes all the time.

Durzlla.6295:

Dahkeus.8243:

Durzlla.6295:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Of course it can be done. Vs good players, not so much.

You know what you can get it off on every time? A bunker, they absolute refuse to leave their point and the drakes breathe can hit the entire point (except graveyard that ones huge!!) meaning you either force them off the point or they eat the whole electrocute.

And what part of immob and stun don’t you get? It doesn’t matter how good you are if you’re a sitting duck!!

Mist form, condition removal, stun break, etc. etc.

There are plenty of counters to this, especially since the drake has a HUUUUUGE wind up. And you don’t have to run far to dodge a drake’s LB, you just casually take two steps to the left and laugh as the pet sits rooted blasting away into nothing.

But yea, if you get a bad player that blows all their cooldowns the first time they get CCed at all, you probably can root them and hit them.

Yup, you know, LB isn’t a 180 degree AoE or anything… and the fact you completely ignore the whole “you can bait them!” thing is kinda sad… you can hit F2 again to cancel it, making them completely WASTE that stun breaker or w/e and then you can launch another one off in a short amount of time, especially if you’re running spider + drake build where you use the immob from spider and then chain it into the drake.

I’ve never played around with the drake. how much dmg does it put out?

NaturalPortman.9562:

Durzlla.6295:

Dahkeus.8243:

Durzlla.6295:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Of course it can be done. Vs good players, not so much.

You know what you can get it off on every time? A bunker, they absolute refuse to leave their point and the drakes breathe can hit the entire point (except graveyard that ones huge!!) meaning you either force them off the point or they eat the whole electrocute.

And what part of immob and stun don’t you get? It doesn’t matter how good you are if you’re a sitting duck!!

Mist form, condition removal, stun break, etc. etc.

There are plenty of counters to this, especially since the drake has a HUUUUUGE wind up. And you don’t have to run far to dodge a drake’s LB, you just casually take two steps to the left and laugh as the pet sits rooted blasting away into nothing.

But yea, if you get a bad player that blows all their cooldowns the first time they get CCed at all, you probably can root them and hit them.

Yup, you know, LB isn’t a 180 degree AoE or anything… and the fact you completely ignore the whole “you can bait them!” thing is kinda sad… you can hit F2 again to cancel it, making them completely WASTE that stun breaker or w/e and then you can launch another one off in a short amount of time, especially if you’re running spider + drake build where you use the immob from spider and then chain it into the drake.

I’ve never played around with the drake. how much dmg does it put out?

A LOT on its special attack. Especially once it starts bouncing around. The rest of its attacks are broken though, so… Yeah.

[Edit: By which I mean it only performs one of its attacks: bite. Chomp and tail swipe don’t work.]

nldixon.8514:

NaturalPortman.9562:

Durzlla.6295:

Dahkeus.8243:

Durzlla.6295:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Of course it can be done. Vs good players, not so much.

You know what you can get it off on every time? A bunker, they absolute refuse to leave their point and the drakes breathe can hit the entire point (except graveyard that ones huge!!) meaning you either force them off the point or they eat the whole electrocute.

And what part of immob and stun don’t you get? It doesn’t matter how good you are if you’re a sitting duck!!

Mist form, condition removal, stun break, etc. etc.

There are plenty of counters to this, especially since the drake has a HUUUUUGE wind up. And you don’t have to run far to dodge a drake’s LB, you just casually take two steps to the left and laugh as the pet sits rooted blasting away into nothing.

But yea, if you get a bad player that blows all their cooldowns the first time they get CCed at all, you probably can root them and hit them.

Yup, you know, LB isn’t a 180 degree AoE or anything… and the fact you completely ignore the whole “you can bait them!” thing is kinda sad… you can hit F2 again to cancel it, making them completely WASTE that stun breaker or w/e and then you can launch another one off in a short amount of time, especially if you’re running spider + drake build where you use the immob from spider and then chain it into the drake.

I’ve never played around with the drake. how much dmg does it put out?

A LOT on its special attack. Especially once it starts bouncing around. The rest of its attacks are broken though, so… Yeah.

It seems like its hard to hit. Id rather keep my 2 ravens. they hit like trucks and its hard to dodge

NaturalPortman.9562:

nldixon.8514:

NaturalPortman.9562:

Durzlla.6295:

Dahkeus.8243:

Durzlla.6295:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Of course it can be done. Vs good players, not so much.

You know what you can get it off on every time? A bunker, they absolute refuse to leave their point and the drakes breathe can hit the entire point (except graveyard that ones huge!!) meaning you either force them off the point or they eat the whole electrocute.

And what part of immob and stun don’t you get? It doesn’t matter how good you are if you’re a sitting duck!!

Mist form, condition removal, stun break, etc. etc.

There are plenty of counters to this, especially since the drake has a HUUUUUGE wind up. And you don’t have to run far to dodge a drake’s LB, you just casually take two steps to the left and laugh as the pet sits rooted blasting away into nothing.

But yea, if you get a bad player that blows all their cooldowns the first time they get CCed at all, you probably can root them and hit them.

Yup, you know, LB isn’t a 180 degree AoE or anything… and the fact you completely ignore the whole “you can bait them!” thing is kinda sad… you can hit F2 again to cancel it, making them completely WASTE that stun breaker or w/e and then you can launch another one off in a short amount of time, especially if you’re running spider + drake build where you use the immob from spider and then chain it into the drake.

I’ve never played around with the drake. how much dmg does it put out?

A LOT on its special attack. Especially once it starts bouncing around. The rest of its attacks are broken though, so… Yeah.

It seems like its hard to hit. Id rather keep my 2 ravens. they hit like trucks and its hard to dodge

The drake lightning breathe (second easiest to hit, 4th lowerst damage) can hit for around 20k or so with 25 stacks of might and masters bond, and that’s on one target… then you got the salamander and reef drake who teach the enemy a new lesson in pain doing significantly more damage then the lightning breathe in raw damage and then also applying a damaging condition (burning and confusion respectively), then followed by the ice drake who applies chilled, those 3, granted they can completely DECIMATE a health bar are really, really, really hard to land, and if you can land it you 100% deserve to end them.

Marsh drake is the EASIEST to hit, but it deals almost no raw damage, however it does apply quite a bit of poison (it’s so easy to hit because it’s ranged like the lightning drake but the projectiles ALSO home on the enemies, and when i say home i mean like WoW or Rift home where once the spells cast you’re pretty much guaranteed it to hit).

EDIT: Keep in mind with 25 stacks of might and masters bond it puts the drakes power at 3,093, that’s A TON of power…

Durzlla.6295:

Dahkeus.8243:

Durzlla.6295:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Of course it can be done. Vs good players, not so much.

You know what you can get it off on every time? A bunker, they absolute refuse to leave their point and the drakes breathe can hit the entire point (except graveyard that ones huge!!) meaning you either force them off the point or they eat the whole electrocute.

And what part of immob and stun don’t you get? It doesn’t matter how good you are if you’re a sitting duck!!

Mist form, condition removal, stun break, etc. etc.

There are plenty of counters to this, especially since the drake has a HUUUUUGE wind up. And you don’t have to run far to dodge a drake’s LB, you just casually take two steps to the left and laugh as the pet sits rooted blasting away into nothing.

But yea, if you get a bad player that blows all their cooldowns the first time they get CCed at all, you probably can root them and hit them.

Yup, you know, LB isn’t a 180 degree AoE or anything… and the fact you completely ignore the whole “you can bait them!” thing is kinda sad… you can hit F2 again to cancel it, making them completely WASTE that stun breaker or w/e and then you can launch another one off in a short amount of time, especially if you’re running spider + drake build where you use the immob from spider and then chain it into the drake.

This is just getting stupid. So you juke them and then what? Your stun is on cooldown and so is their stun break. This means you have to set up this whole elaborate scenario again and have to pull it off before their stun break comes off cooldown, but after yours does. Or you try it again with an immobilize, in which case they can just condition remove it. Oh, and let’s hope your pet doesn’t die in the meantime or that you don’t need to swap for some other reason.

And if you’re using QZ, then you either commit to using it before F2 and waste it if you end up juking or you waste it when they stun break.

Durzlla.6295:

NaturalPortman.9562:

nldixon.8514:

NaturalPortman.9562:

Durzlla.6295:

Dahkeus.8243:

Durzlla.6295:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Of course it can be done. Vs good players, not so much.

You know what you can get it off on every time? A bunker, they absolute refuse to leave their point and the drakes breathe can hit the entire point (except graveyard that ones huge!!) meaning you either force them off the point or they eat the whole electrocute.

And what part of immob and stun don’t you get? It doesn’t matter how good you are if you’re a sitting duck!!

Mist form, condition removal, stun break, etc. etc.

There are plenty of counters to this, especially since the drake has a HUUUUUGE wind up. And you don’t have to run far to dodge a drake’s LB, you just casually take two steps to the left and laugh as the pet sits rooted blasting away into nothing.

But yea, if you get a bad player that blows all their cooldowns the first time they get CCed at all, you probably can root them and hit them.

Yup, you know, LB isn’t a 180 degree AoE or anything… and the fact you completely ignore the whole “you can bait them!” thing is kinda sad… you can hit F2 again to cancel it, making them completely WASTE that stun breaker or w/e and then you can launch another one off in a short amount of time, especially if you’re running spider + drake build where you use the immob from spider and then chain it into the drake.

I’ve never played around with the drake. how much dmg does it put out?

A LOT on its special attack. Especially once it starts bouncing around. The rest of its attacks are broken though, so… Yeah.

It seems like its hard to hit. Id rather keep my 2 ravens. they hit like trucks and its hard to dodge

The drake lightning breathe (second easiest to hit, 4th lowerst damage) can hit for around 20k or so with 25 stacks of might and masters bond, and that’s on one target… then you got the salamander and reef drake who teach the enemy a new lesson in pain doing significantly more damage then the lightning breathe in raw damage and then also applying a damaging condition (burning and confusion respectively), then followed by the ice drake who applies chilled, those 3, granted they can completely DECIMATE a health bar are really, really, really hard to land, and if you can land it you 100% deserve to end them.

Marsh drake is the EASIEST to hit, but it deals almost no raw damage, however it does apply quite a bit of poison (it’s so easy to hit because it’s ranged like the lightning drake but the projectiles ALSO home on the enemies, and when i say home i mean like WoW or Rift home where once the spells cast you’re pretty much guaranteed it to hit).

EDIT: Keep in mind with 25 stacks of might and masters bond it puts the drakes power at 3,093, that’s A TON of power…

lol Id still rather keep my ravens, they dont need any might as still down my opponents in 2 f2s

Dahkeus.8243:

Durzlla.6295:

Dahkeus.8243:

Durzlla.6295:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Of course it can be done. Vs good players, not so much.

You know what you can get it off on every time? A bunker, they absolute refuse to leave their point and the drakes breathe can hit the entire point (except graveyard that ones huge!!) meaning you either force them off the point or they eat the whole electrocute.

And what part of immob and stun don’t you get? It doesn’t matter how good you are if you’re a sitting duck!!

Mist form, condition removal, stun break, etc. etc.

There are plenty of counters to this, especially since the drake has a HUUUUUGE wind up. And you don’t have to run far to dodge a drake’s LB, you just casually take two steps to the left and laugh as the pet sits rooted blasting away into nothing.

But yea, if you get a bad player that blows all their cooldowns the first time they get CCed at all, you probably can root them and hit them.

Yup, you know, LB isn’t a 180 degree AoE or anything… and the fact you completely ignore the whole “you can bait them!” thing is kinda sad… you can hit F2 again to cancel it, making them completely WASTE that stun breaker or w/e and then you can launch another one off in a short amount of time, especially if you’re running spider + drake build where you use the immob from spider and then chain it into the drake.

This is just getting stupid. So you juke them and then what? Your stun is on cooldown and so is their stun break. This means you have to set up this whole elaborate scenario again and have to pull it off before their stun break comes off cooldown, but after yours does. Or you try it again with an immobilize, in which case they can just condition remove it. Oh, and let’s hope your pet doesn’t die in the meantime or that you don’t need to swap for some other reason.

And if you’re using QZ, then you either commit to using it before F2 and waste it if you end up juking or you waste it when they stun break.

I never said i use QZ i just use the speed boost from swapping, and how many players do you know have both a stun break, AND a condition removal? Because most people don’t…. and if you haven’t noticed it’s possible for you to have several immobs and stuns, which would likely outnumber their condi removals and stun breakers…

And what world do you live in that people fight your pet in tPvP? because that’d be teh definition of a bad… and if you say “Oh i’m in a group fight!” well i’d let my LB go off because it’ll hit -someone- and it’ll then bounce and cause all sorts of havok.

NaturalPortman.9562:

Durzlla.6295:

NaturalPortman.9562:

nldixon.8514:

NaturalPortman.9562:

Durzlla.6295:

Dahkeus.8243:

Durzlla.6295:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Of course it can be done. Vs good players, not so much.

You know what you can get it off on every time? A bunker, they absolute refuse to leave their point and the drakes breathe can hit the entire point (except graveyard that ones huge!!) meaning you either force them off the point or they eat the whole electrocute.

And what part of immob and stun don’t you get? It doesn’t matter how good you are if you’re a sitting duck!!

Mist form, condition removal, stun break, etc. etc.

There are plenty of counters to this, especially since the drake has a HUUUUUGE wind up. And you don’t have to run far to dodge a drake’s LB, you just casually take two steps to the left and laugh as the pet sits rooted blasting away into nothing.

But yea, if you get a bad player that blows all their cooldowns the first time they get CCed at all, you probably can root them and hit them.

Yup, you know, LB isn’t a 180 degree AoE or anything… and the fact you completely ignore the whole “you can bait them!” thing is kinda sad… you can hit F2 again to cancel it, making them completely WASTE that stun breaker or w/e and then you can launch another one off in a short amount of time, especially if you’re running spider + drake build where you use the immob from spider and then chain it into the drake.

I’ve never played around with the drake. how much dmg does it put out?

A LOT on its special attack. Especially once it starts bouncing around. The rest of its attacks are broken though, so… Yeah.

It seems like its hard to hit. Id rather keep my 2 ravens. they hit like trucks and its hard to dodge

The drake lightning breathe (second easiest to hit, 4th lowerst damage) can hit for around 20k or so with 25 stacks of might and masters bond, and that’s on one target… then you got the salamander and reef drake who teach the enemy a new lesson in pain doing significantly more damage then the lightning breathe in raw damage and then also applying a damaging condition (burning and confusion respectively), then followed by the ice drake who applies chilled, those 3, granted they can completely DECIMATE a health bar are really, really, really hard to land, and if you can land it you 100% deserve to end them.

Marsh drake is the EASIEST to hit, but it deals almost no raw damage, however it does apply quite a bit of poison (it’s so easy to hit because it’s ranged like the lightning drake but the projectiles ALSO home on the enemies, and when i say home i mean like WoW or Rift home where once the spells cast you’re pretty much guaranteed it to hit).

EDIT: Keep in mind with 25 stacks of might and masters bond it puts the drakes power at 3,093, that’s A TON of power…

lol Id still rather keep my ravens, they dont need any might as still down my opponents in 2 f2s

lol ravens also don’t do 20k bouncing damage with their F2 with the might stacks xD

Durzlla.6295:

Dahkeus.8243:

Durzlla.6295:

Dahkeus.8243:

Durzlla.6295:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Of course it can be done. Vs good players, not so much.

You know what you can get it off on every time? A bunker, they absolute refuse to leave their point and the drakes breathe can hit the entire point (except graveyard that ones huge!!) meaning you either force them off the point or they eat the whole electrocute.

And what part of immob and stun don’t you get? It doesn’t matter how good you are if you’re a sitting duck!!

Mist form, condition removal, stun break, etc. etc.

There are plenty of counters to this, especially since the drake has a HUUUUUGE wind up. And you don’t have to run far to dodge a drake’s LB, you just casually take two steps to the left and laugh as the pet sits rooted blasting away into nothing.

But yea, if you get a bad player that blows all their cooldowns the first time they get CCed at all, you probably can root them and hit them.

Yup, you know, LB isn’t a 180 degree AoE or anything… and the fact you completely ignore the whole “you can bait them!” thing is kinda sad… you can hit F2 again to cancel it, making them completely WASTE that stun breaker or w/e and then you can launch another one off in a short amount of time, especially if you’re running spider + drake build where you use the immob from spider and then chain it into the drake.

This is just getting stupid. So you juke them and then what? Your stun is on cooldown and so is their stun break. This means you have to set up this whole elaborate scenario again and have to pull it off before their stun break comes off cooldown, but after yours does. Or you try it again with an immobilize, in which case they can just condition remove it. Oh, and let’s hope your pet doesn’t die in the meantime or that you don’t need to swap for some other reason.

And if you’re using QZ, then you either commit to using it before F2 and waste it if you end up juking or you waste it when they stun break.

I never said i use QZ i just use the speed boost from swapping, and how many players do you know have both a stun break, AND a condition removal? Because most people don’t…. and if you haven’t noticed it’s possible for you to have several immobs and stuns, which would likely outnumber their condi removals and stun breakers…

And what world do you live in that people fight your pet in tPvP? because that’d be teh definition of a bad… and if you say “Oh i’m in a group fight!” well i’d let my LB go off because it’ll hit -someone- and it’ll then bounce and cause all sorts of havok.

I’m done with this. I swear you’re trolling or something. My forehead is getting sore from my palm.

Durzlla.6295:

NaturalPortman.9562:

Durzlla.6295:

NaturalPortman.9562:

nldixon.8514:

NaturalPortman.9562:

Durzlla.6295:

Dahkeus.8243:

Durzlla.6295:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Of course it can be done. Vs good players, not so much.

You know what you can get it off on every time? A bunker, they absolute refuse to leave their point and the drakes breathe can hit the entire point (except graveyard that ones huge!!) meaning you either force them off the point or they eat the whole electrocute.

And what part of immob and stun don’t you get? It doesn’t matter how good you are if you’re a sitting duck!!

Mist form, condition removal, stun break, etc. etc.

There are plenty of counters to this, especially since the drake has a HUUUUUGE wind up. And you don’t have to run far to dodge a drake’s LB, you just casually take two steps to the left and laugh as the pet sits rooted blasting away into nothing.

But yea, if you get a bad player that blows all their cooldowns the first time they get CCed at all, you probably can root them and hit them.

Yup, you know, LB isn’t a 180 degree AoE or anything… and the fact you completely ignore the whole “you can bait them!” thing is kinda sad… you can hit F2 again to cancel it, making them completely WASTE that stun breaker or w/e and then you can launch another one off in a short amount of time, especially if you’re running spider + drake build where you use the immob from spider and then chain it into the drake.

I’ve never played around with the drake. how much dmg does it put out?

A LOT on its special attack. Especially once it starts bouncing around. The rest of its attacks are broken though, so… Yeah.

It seems like its hard to hit. Id rather keep my 2 ravens. they hit like trucks and its hard to dodge

The drake lightning breathe (second easiest to hit, 4th lowerst damage) can hit for around 20k or so with 25 stacks of might and masters bond, and that’s on one target… then you got the salamander and reef drake who teach the enemy a new lesson in pain doing significantly more damage then the lightning breathe in raw damage and then also applying a damaging condition (burning and confusion respectively), then followed by the ice drake who applies chilled, those 3, granted they can completely DECIMATE a health bar are really, really, really hard to land, and if you can land it you 100% deserve to end them.

Marsh drake is the EASIEST to hit, but it deals almost no raw damage, however it does apply quite a bit of poison (it’s so easy to hit because it’s ranged like the lightning drake but the projectiles ALSO home on the enemies, and when i say home i mean like WoW or Rift home where once the spells cast you’re pretty much guaranteed it to hit).

EDIT: Keep in mind with 25 stacks of might and masters bond it puts the drakes power at 3,093, that’s A TON of power…

lol Id still rather keep my ravens, they dont need any might as still down my opponents in 2 f2s

lol ravens also don’t do 20k bouncing damage with their F2 with the might stacks xD

It’s still more reliable than a charge up moves that needs bouncing
oh and I can do an instant 15k-20k with double ravens, using their f2s then swapping.

Yea, it’s the same story with a jaguar. You can do some big complicated CC event or just hit F2 while you pop your cooldowns.

Dahkeus.8243:

Yea, it’s the same story with a jaguar. You can do some big complicated CC event or just hit F2 while you pop your cooldowns.

A moving target moves away from a stealthed jaguar as well….Stealth doesn’t increase the range of attacks or anything afterall. Not that stealthed jaguars aren’t good they just also aren’t automatic damage on a well played juking charachter.

If you haven’t tried using a drake in PvP, maybe you should. I’d say at least 75% of the time people don’t even TRY to avoid the breath attacks because people rarely pay attention to pets.

All of your theorycrafting about why it won’t work will go out the window when you realize how effective it actually is.

nldixon.8514:

If you haven’t tried using a drake in PvP, maybe you should. I’d say at least 75% of the time people don’t even TRY to avoid the breath attacks because people rarely pay attention to pets.

All of your theorycrafting about why it won’t work will go out the window when you realize how effective it actually is.

I never said it wouldn’t work. I said it won’t work against high level players, which isn’t the majority of the player base.

Dahkeus.8243:

nldixon.8514:

If you haven’t tried using a drake in PvP, maybe you should. I’d say at least 75% of the time people don’t even TRY to avoid the breath attacks because people rarely pay attention to pets.

All of your theorycrafting about why it won’t work will go out the window when you realize how effective it actually is.

I never said it wouldn’t work. I said it won’t work against high level players, which isn’t the majority of the player base.

So high level players have unlimited stun breaks and condition removal, never make mistakes, and are totally infallible?

Or is it just that there are no “high level” Ranger players, so it’s totally impossible that a Ranger can ever outplay a “mid level” or “low level” player? Your argument is ridiculous.

I’ve already stated that it’s not 100% effective, but that when it does work it’s awesome. You can continue to believe whatever you want, but it’s obvious that you haven’t spent much time playing with drake pets in PvP.

nldixon.8514:

Dahkeus.8243:

nldixon.8514:

If you haven’t tried using a drake in PvP, maybe you should. I’d say at least 75% of the time people don’t even TRY to avoid the breath attacks because people rarely pay attention to pets.

All of your theorycrafting about why it won’t work will go out the window when you realize how effective it actually is.

I never said it wouldn’t work. I said it won’t work against high level players, which isn’t the majority of the player base.

So high level players have unlimited stun breaks and condition removal, never make mistakes, and are totally infallible?

Or is it just that there are no “high level” Ranger players, so it’s totally impossible that a Ranger can ever outplay a “mid level” or “low level” player? Your argument is ridiculous.

I’ve already stated that it’s not 100% effective, but that when it does work it’s awesome. You can continue to believe whatever you want, but it’s obvious that you haven’t spent much time playing with drake pets in PvP.

Players do not turn aside from drake’s breathing? You’re kidding! I can hardly bring the mob under it. Hits, at best, 20% of all uses. And it’s probably only with QZ O_o

MeGaZlo.9516:

nldixon.8514:

Dahkeus.8243:

nldixon.8514:

If you haven’t tried using a drake in PvP, maybe you should. I’d say at least 75% of the time people don’t even TRY to avoid the breath attacks because people rarely pay attention to pets.

All of your theorycrafting about why it won’t work will go out the window when you realize how effective it actually is.

I never said it wouldn’t work. I said it won’t work against high level players, which isn’t the majority of the player base.

So high level players have unlimited stun breaks and condition removal, never make mistakes, and are totally infallible?

Or is it just that there are no “high level” Ranger players, so it’s totally impossible that a Ranger can ever outplay a “mid level” or “low level” player? Your argument is ridiculous.

I’ve already stated that it’s not 100% effective, but that when it does work it’s awesome. You can continue to believe whatever you want, but it’s obvious that you haven’t spent much time playing with drake pets in PvP.

Players do not turn aside from drake’s breathing? You’re kidding! I can hardly bring the mob under it. Hits, at best, 20% of all uses. And it’s probably only with QZ O_o

You didn’t read anything in the rest of this thread, did you?

nldixon.8514:

MeGaZlo.9516:

nldixon.8514:

Dahkeus.8243:

nldixon.8514:

If you haven’t tried using a drake in PvP, maybe you should. I’d say at least 75% of the time people don’t even TRY to avoid the breath attacks because people rarely pay attention to pets.

All of your theorycrafting about why it won’t work will go out the window when you realize how effective it actually is.

I never said it wouldn’t work. I said it won’t work against high level players, which isn’t the majority of the player base.

So high level players have unlimited stun breaks and condition removal, never make mistakes, and are totally infallible?

Or is it just that there are no “high level” Ranger players, so it’s totally impossible that a Ranger can ever outplay a “mid level” or “low level” player? Your argument is ridiculous.

I’ve already stated that it’s not 100% effective, but that when it does work it’s awesome. You can continue to believe whatever you want, but it’s obvious that you haven’t spent much time playing with drake pets in PvP.

Players do not turn aside from drake’s breathing? You’re kidding! I can hardly bring the mob under it. Hits, at best, 20% of all uses. And it’s probably only with QZ O_o

You didn’t read anything in the rest of this thread, did you?

Yep. I did.

MeGaZlo.9516:

nldixon.8514:

MeGaZlo.9516:

nldixon.8514:

Dahkeus.8243:

nldixon.8514:

If you haven’t tried using a drake in PvP, maybe you should. I’d say at least 75% of the time people don’t even TRY to avoid the breath attacks because people rarely pay attention to pets.

All of your theorycrafting about why it won’t work will go out the window when you realize how effective it actually is.

I never said it wouldn’t work. I said it won’t work against high level players, which isn’t the majority of the player base.

So high level players have unlimited stun breaks and condition removal, never make mistakes, and are totally infallible?

Or is it just that there are no “high level” Ranger players, so it’s totally impossible that a Ranger can ever outplay a “mid level” or “low level” player? Your argument is ridiculous.

I’ve already stated that it’s not 100% effective, but that when it does work it’s awesome. You can continue to believe whatever you want, but it’s obvious that you haven’t spent much time playing with drake pets in PvP.

Players do not turn aside from drake’s breathing? You’re kidding! I can hardly bring the mob under it. Hits, at best, 20% of all uses. And it’s probably only with QZ O_o

You didn’t read anything in the rest of this thread, did you?

Yep. I did.

Then you’re willfully ignoring everything that was said in this thread. There are plenty of ways to keep players (and mobs) stationary long enough to get the breath to work. Especially on a river drake who has a ranged attack that still does very good damage.

NaturalPortman.9562:

Da Poolp.6809:

arenta.2953:

Da Poolp.6809:

Everybody forget something with the GS, the #3 and #4 deals good damages too.
The #5 give to your pet +50% damage on his next attack too, the GS is the best melee weapon to burst.

ranger can’t burst. thats one of its problems.
PvP is controlled by burst classes and those without burst get left behind

Ranger can, not like a rogue of course, but we can. I’m testing a pure melee build, and I can deal ~10k damage in less than 3sec, without big cooldown.

Actually rangers can burst just as heavy and well as thieves, its just that no one knows how to control pets properly. I can do a 15-20k burst in under 3 seconds.

Okay, both of you, what builds are you using? Because this sounds crazy.

blud.8174:

NaturalPortman.9562:

Da Poolp.6809:

arenta.2953:

Da Poolp.6809:

Everybody forget something with the GS, the #3 and #4 deals good damages too.
The #5 give to your pet +50% damage on his next attack too, the GS is the best melee weapon to burst.

ranger can’t burst. thats one of its problems.
PvP is controlled by burst classes and those without burst get left behind

Ranger can, not like a rogue of course, but we can. I’m testing a pure melee build, and I can deal ~10k damage in less than 3sec, without big cooldown.

Actually rangers can burst just as heavy and well as thieves, its just that no one knows how to control pets properly. I can do a 15-20k burst in under 3 seconds.

Okay, both of you, what builds are you using? Because this sounds crazy.

Don’t bother. He still thinks that no one can counter his stun, lol.

Dahkeus.8243:

blud.8174:

NaturalPortman.9562:

Da Poolp.6809:

arenta.2953:

Da Poolp.6809:

Everybody forget something with the GS, the #3 and #4 deals good damages too.
The #5 give to your pet +50% damage on his next attack too, the GS is the best melee weapon to burst.

ranger can’t burst. thats one of its problems.
PvP is controlled by burst classes and those without burst get left behind

Ranger can, not like a rogue of course, but we can. I’m testing a pure melee build, and I can deal ~10k damage in less than 3sec, without big cooldown.

Actually rangers can burst just as heavy and well as thieves, its just that no one knows how to control pets properly. I can do a 15-20k burst in under 3 seconds.

Okay, both of you, what builds are you using? Because this sounds crazy.

Don’t bother. He still thinks that no one can counter his stun, lol.

But I don’t use stuns o-o. My burst actually doesn’t require any snares or cc.

NaturalPortman.9562:

Dahkeus.8243:

blud.8174:

NaturalPortman.9562:

Da Poolp.6809:

arenta.2953:

Da Poolp.6809:

Everybody forget something with the GS, the #3 and #4 deals good damages too.
The #5 give to your pet +50% damage on his next attack too, the GS is the best melee weapon to burst.

ranger can’t burst. thats one of its problems.
PvP is controlled by burst classes and those without burst get left behind

Ranger can, not like a rogue of course, but we can. I’m testing a pure melee build, and I can deal ~10k damage in less than 3sec, without big cooldown.

Actually rangers can burst just as heavy and well as thieves, its just that no one knows how to control pets properly. I can do a 15-20k burst in under 3 seconds.

Okay, both of you, what builds are you using? Because this sounds crazy.

Don’t bother. He still thinks that no one can counter his stun, lol.

But I don’t use stuns o-o. My burst actually doesn’t require any snares or cc.

So in other words, the build requires the person to stand still and catch every attack with their face.

NaturalPortman.9562:

Dahkeus.8243:

blud.8174:

NaturalPortman.9562:

Da Poolp.6809:

arenta.2953:

Da Poolp.6809:

Everybody forget something with the GS, the #3 and #4 deals good damages too.
The #5 give to your pet +50% damage on his next attack too, the GS is the best melee weapon to burst.

ranger can’t burst. thats one of its problems.
PvP is controlled by burst classes and those without burst get left behind

Ranger can, not like a rogue of course, but we can. I’m testing a pure melee build, and I can deal ~10k damage in less than 3sec, without big cooldown.

Actually rangers can burst just as heavy and well as thieves, its just that no one knows how to control pets properly. I can do a 15-20k burst in under 3 seconds.

Okay, both of you, what builds are you using? Because this sounds crazy.

Don’t bother. He still thinks that no one can counter his stun, lol.

But I don’t use stuns o-o. My burst actually doesn’t require any snares or cc.

I didn’t mean you. =P

@ Substance E, I believe he runs ravens, which you don’t need someone to stand still for as much. For the drake LB attack, you need to be fighting a statue or someone who’s afk.