Guild Wars 2

This is my first real ranger build, so by no means do I claim to be an expert, but I feel like this is a decent, forgiving build that allows the ranger to dictate the fight using multiple dodges and condi cleanse, as well as using chill to lock down the target and rampage as one(along with extra damage when boons are applied) to finish them off.

Critique is welcome and needed
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNIQNAT8YjMq0ya9K+rw1ag+ga5CEANzhA29AnEpdJPKC-TxgkwA6U/BgSQkK/AA-e

Thanks!

Seriously, please…
I can beg

Even with zerk weapons your damage will be non existent. Being tanky isn’t going to do you any good if you can’t kill anything.

Maybe consider mixing some dire and apothocary gear for a tanky condi build, or change your traits for a beastmaster build.

Here is a tanky build I made for running in the frontline of a zerg, with a few tweaks it works pretty well for havock/roaming as well. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQNBHhFakRl+VbYxiFuWDQIULDg3tdLUspgzkoGS5IZhtIA-T1CEwAQOEAtU/xpyjf7PsVJohTAQTlYt1EU5BA0RPAgjAApASZoF-w

I personally use this when I want to tank:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNIQJARTjEq0yaJLWsw1aALhqdDEAFw7XoVfVXlwJvqSrA-TBiDABQpUBLlVepEEgLBAjq/IwTAAl9HgTXAZAMHDA-e

You’re tanky while still allowing others to put strong regen on you.

Razor.9872:

I personally use this when I want to tank:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNIQJARTjEq0yaJLWsw1aALhqdDEAFw7XoVfVXlwJvqSrA-TBiDABQpUBLlVepEEgLBAjq/IwTAAl9HgTXAZAMHDA-e

You’re tanky while still allowing others to put strong regen on you.

A few questions.
Why are you using bloodlust sigils on both weapons?

Why use natural healing without compassion training?

Why spec that far into beastmastery at all if you’re not running a dps pet when you could go down the nature magic line for nature’s voice which would give you a higher regen and perma swiftness?

Oh and why the untraited longbow? It’s kind of worthless with no crit chance, crit damage, or traits.

The build is wrong from a very clear point of view.

It has no purpose.
You want to tank… With a Longbow… In PvE… That is traited for SotF… With lightning reflexes only…

I hope this won’t sound offensive, but anyone open-minded is going to tell you that every single aspect from pet choices through stats, traits and abilities and weapon choices is plain horrible.

That build is wrong. Don’t use it when people are around you. Just don’t. For your sake and all the rest of us.

The build has huge problems, regardless of game mode (PVE/WvW).

The build has no power and really low condition damage. Damage is important in this game. You currently have next to none.

If you want to be tanky, run apothecary/settler’s gear. Then either (a) use dwayana runes and take some regen traits or (b) take nature’s voice trait and slot guard utility. 6 points each in the 3rd and 4th trait line. Take Empathic Bond trait.

Choose between shortbow, axe and sword mainhands and dagger/torch off hands.

If you want to run longbow, choose a mix between berserker and soldiers. 6 points in the first trait line including eagle eye.

Stand at 1500 and fire arrows.

If you’re going to go Nomad’s, you need to invest in Beastmastery so you have something that can actually deal damage.

I’d suggest not using Nomad’s and instead going with something such as Settler, Apothecary, Cleric, Knight, or even Soldier.

Some like to mix Cavalier/Berserker/Valkyrie/Soldier to get a good mix of Power/Precision/Ferocity/Toughness/Vitality at the levels they want.

With Nomad’s, sure you can take a while to take down … but you don’t really have anything to try to stop someone from trying to take you down. You have a thick hide but no teeth … essentially a cow that’s going to get dragged down by a stubborn predator.

In all honesty if you want to go tanky run this -

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNIQRAnY8fjEq0wa/KWsQ1aAMhqdBssBw7cIVXVXXwJvqSrA-TxhHwAZV/ZwJBgs+hkK/A8EAws/QclgkCwMxWA-e

There is not a build in wvw that will be able to kill you. You are the king of 1v1, and 1v2 against most classes. Dolyak healing you for 71 hps, mango pie for like 85hps, regen signet 136hps, and natural healing 175hp3s. GG 292hps and 467hps. + regen Also Leeching will heal you for 900+ on weapon swap. Oh and lots of vigor.

You can replace dolyak with dwayna but regen gets stripped easily, when people see you are condi. Also toughness + vit outweigh regen/healing power.

If you want for PVE replace mango pie with Condi duration food and u can solo any champion as well.

Very forgiving, very faceroll. When you become an expert at the class you can switch settlers with Dire gear, and spec can turn into 2/0/6/6/0 -

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNIQRAnY8fjEq0waNLusQ1aABhaVA0OGu3Ww9QcDf9JjqSrA-TxhHABDcSAeZ/h20PAwTAYR1fsTJoRK/IFAEjtA-e

Cheers,

Zei

Jim Hunter.6821:

Razor.9872:

I personally use this when I want to tank:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNIQJARTjEq0yaJLWsw1aALhqdDEAFw7XoVfVXlwJvqSrA-TBiDABQpUBLlVepEEgLBAjq/IwTAAl9HgTXAZAMHDA-e

You’re tanky while still allowing others to put strong regen on you.

A few questions.
Why are you using bloodlust sigils on both weapons?

Why use natural healing without compassion training?

Why spec that far into beastmastery at all if you’re not running a dps pet when you could go down the nature magic line for nature’s voice which would give you a higher regen and perma swiftness?

Oh and why the untraited longbow? It’s kind of worthless with no crit chance, crit damage, or traits.

-I use bloodlust for more power. I feel tanky enough without having to sacrifice all of my DPS. Bloodlust helps scale my power, and thus my sustain, to the max. I use it on both my weapons so I can gain that passive as quickly as possible, without having to worry about which weapon I’m getting kills with. The healing sigil can be swapped with whatever you want, by the way.

-The buff to Natural Healing from Compassion Training is minimal (from my experience). You can use it if you like. Builds aren’t meant to be set in stone.

-It’s true the longbow is much weaker than it is on most other Rangers, but that’s because this builds doesn’t have you camping it. The greatsword sees the most use. Longbow is just there to provide sustain while you fight something at range and to provide synergy with your greatsword. Ranged and melee weapons are meant to be swapped to a fro as combat demands it.

My rotation usually involves LB 2, 4, 3, 5 — do what needs to be done on GS as combat demands it (i.e. hitting with maul as often as possible, blocking projectiles and avoiding burst with counterattack, gapclosing and evading with swoop, and interrupting the opponent’s flow with hiltbash; all while giving your regen a chance to work with the evades on auto). When most of your GS skills are on CD, you can swap to longbow to set up more vulnerability, knock your opponent back, give your pet swiftness, and lay down a crippling area-denile barrage from the safety of stealth. You may have to auto once or twice, but then you can come back into greatsword with a hampered foe.

Razor.9872:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Razor.9872:

I personally use this when I want to tank:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNIQJARTjEq0yaJLWsw1aALhqdDEAFw7XoVfVXlwJvqSrA-TBiDABQpUBLlVepEEgLBAjq/IwTAAl9HgTXAZAMHDA-e

You’re tanky while still allowing others to put strong regen on you.

A few questions.
Why are you using bloodlust sigils on both weapons?

Why use natural healing without compassion training?

Why spec that far into beastmastery at all if you’re not running a dps pet when you could go down the nature magic line for nature’s voice which would give you a higher regen and perma swiftness?

Oh and why the untraited longbow? It’s kind of worthless with no crit chance, crit damage, or traits.

-I use bloodlust for more power. I feel tanky enough without having to sacrifice all of my DPS. Bloodlust helps scale my power, and thus my sustain, to the max. I use it on both my weapons so I can gain that passive as quickly as possible, without having to worry about which weapon I’m getting kills with. The healing sigil can be swapped with whatever you want, by the way.

-The buff to Natural Healing from Compassion Training is minimal (from my experience). You can use it if you like. Builds aren’t meant to be set in stone.

-It’s true the longbow is much weaker than it is on most other Rangers, but that’s because this builds doesn’t have you camping it. The greatsword sees the most use. Longbow is just there to provide sustain while you fight something at range and to provide synergy with your greatsword. Ranged and melee weapons are meant to be swapped to a fro as combat demands it.

My rotation usually involves LB 2, 4, 3, 5 — do what needs to be done on GS as combat demands it (i.e. hitting with maul as often as possible, blocking projectiles and avoiding burst with counterattack, gapclosing and evading with swoop, and interrupting the opponent’s flow with hiltbash; all while giving your regen a chance to work with the evades on auto). When most of your GS skills are on CD, you can swap to longbow to set up more vulnerability, knock your opponent back, give your pet swiftness, and lay down a crippling area-denile barrage from the safety of stealth. You may have to auto once or twice, but then you can come back into greatsword with a hampered foe.

I think you misunderstood, I understand why you you use a bloodlust sigil I just don’t understand why you put it on both weapons. You only need it on 1 of the weapons to get the benefit from it. You are basically wasting a sigil and there are plenty you could add to improve your build, doom, intelligence, energy, etc.

No, no, no you’re doing it all wrong! You should try the Merciful Quaggen build!

As the name suggests… It hits like a Quaggen.

You can make just about any traits work if you fit them to your playstyle (I assume we’re talking WvW, here?)

You can’t make nomad’s work. Not unless you’re a commander.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Razor.9872:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Razor.9872:

I personally use this when I want to tank:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNIQJARTjEq0yaJLWsw1aALhqdDEAFw7XoVfVXlwJvqSrA-TBiDABQpUBLlVepEEgLBAjq/IwTAAl9HgTXAZAMHDA-e

You’re tanky while still allowing others to put strong regen on you.

A few questions.
Why are you using bloodlust sigils on both weapons?

Why use natural healing without compassion training?

Why spec that far into beastmastery at all if you’re not running a dps pet when you could go down the nature magic line for nature’s voice which would give you a higher regen and perma swiftness?

Oh and why the untraited longbow? It’s kind of worthless with no crit chance, crit damage, or traits.

-I use bloodlust for more power. I feel tanky enough without having to sacrifice all of my DPS. Bloodlust helps scale my power, and thus my sustain, to the max. I use it on both my weapons so I can gain that passive as quickly as possible, without having to worry about which weapon I’m getting kills with. The healing sigil can be swapped with whatever you want, by the way.

-The buff to Natural Healing from Compassion Training is minimal (from my experience). You can use it if you like. Builds aren’t meant to be set in stone.

-It’s true the longbow is much weaker than it is on most other Rangers, but that’s because this builds doesn’t have you camping it. The greatsword sees the most use. Longbow is just there to provide sustain while you fight something at range and to provide synergy with your greatsword. Ranged and melee weapons are meant to be swapped to a fro as combat demands it.

My rotation usually involves LB 2, 4, 3, 5 — do what needs to be done on GS as combat demands it (i.e. hitting with maul as often as possible, blocking projectiles and avoiding burst with counterattack, gapclosing and evading with swoop, and interrupting the opponent’s flow with hiltbash; all while giving your regen a chance to work with the evades on auto). When most of your GS skills are on CD, you can swap to longbow to set up more vulnerability, knock your opponent back, give your pet swiftness, and lay down a crippling area-denile barrage from the safety of stealth. You may have to auto once or twice, but then you can come back into greatsword with a hampered foe.

I think you misunderstood, I understand why you you use a bloodlust sigil I just don’t understand why you put it on both weapons. You only need it on 1 of the weapons to get the benefit from it. You are basically wasting a sigil and there are plenty you could add to improve your build, doom, intelligence, energy, etc.

“I use it on both my weapons so I can gain that passive as quickly as possible, without having to worry about which weapon I’m getting kills with.”

I hate bloodlust sigils, no matter how much I try telling myself it’s a nice bonus I always end up chasing stacks when I use it and not uncommonly play stupidly just to get them too and once you reach 25 it’s like a curse hanging over you you’re gona get zerg kitten d in minutes guaranteed xD

Manekk.6981:

I hate bloodlust sigils, no matter how much I try telling myself it’s a nice bonus I always end up chasing stacks when I use it and not uncommonly play stupidly just to get them too and once you reach 25 it’s like a curse hanging over you you’re gona get zerg kitten d in minutes guaranteed xD

Same, I use them for Open World, where there is no chance of being killed, but in WvW I hate them lol.

Helps to be tanky with them.

Razor.9872:

Helps to be tanky with them.

But there’s no point to be tanky whatsoever… It’s the worst thing you could do.
… Even in PvP. We just don’t have the stuff to be efficient in tank.
Only scenario would be Commander role in WvW – but that’s definitely not the case if the OP came here for advice. It’s an indicator he lacks experience.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Razor.9872:

Helps to be tanky with them.

But there’s no point to be tanky whatsoever… It’s the worst thing you could do.
… Even in PvP. We just don’t have the stuff to be efficient in tank.
Only scenario would be Commander role in WvW – but that’s definitely not the case if the OP came here for advice. It’s an indicator he lacks experience.

Sure there is. I have 2 rangers that I can run my tanky build on, 1 is a char with big bright blue sayan hair, the other is a big norn that looks like Santa Clause. Both immediately catch the eye, and who doesn’t like to focus a squishy ranger.

When my group runs into a larger group while havocking I’ll tell them to hang back a few seconds and jump in to draw their focus and get them to pop their cooldowns. We’ve easily wiped groups twice our size using this tactic.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Razor.9872:

Helps to be tanky with them.

But there’s no point to be tanky whatsoever… It’s the worst thing you could do.
… Even in PvP. We just don’t have the stuff to be efficient in tank.
Only scenario would be Commander role in WvW – but that’s definitely not the case if the OP came here for advice. It’s an indicator he lacks experience.

There’s nothing wrong with having a tanky build, I think you mean there’s no point to use nomad.

Manekk.6981:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Razor.9872:

Helps to be tanky with them.

But there’s no point to be tanky whatsoever… It’s the worst thing you could do.
… Even in PvP. We just don’t have the stuff to be efficient in tank.
Only scenario would be Commander role in WvW – but that’s definitely not the case if the OP came here for advice. It’s an indicator he lacks experience.

There’s nothing wrong with having a tanky build, I think you mean there’s no point to use nomad.

Yeah, that I can agree with. I mean you could try for a BM build but those are barely effective in 1v1’s and they are terrible for anything more than that.

Manekk.6981:

There’s nothing wrong with having a tanky build, I think you mean there’s no point to use nomad.

Partly true.
There is currently no Power Build that will do besides Zerk. Simply because rangers have sustained damage without any spikes (besides 10 sec CD RF – that is far too long to be considered a pressure).

More importantly – tanks are supposed to soak up damage. By soaking it up – it does mean absorb / overheal / endure. And that role is useless if you can’t kill the target sooner than you go down.
Or in XvY scenatio – you don’t provide even close to needed support or utility to your team that would make the HP utility stick worth (unlike Guardians/Warrior that are godlike here).

If we were talking about condition builds – that still isn’t a tanky build. Those are builds that either bet on your experience of dodge use, or bombing the enemy quicker than they kill you (which still opens 1 stat for defensive since condi doesn’t need 3 stats unlike zerk – but by no means this can be called a tank).

And as the time goes, I’m currently aware of a single “tanky” build – and that would be the condi Full Regen build. That lives long and provides team support via perma regen and swiftness. And still deals more damage than “tanky builds”.

All in all – being a tank has a meaning only if it is made for at least 1 of these 2 purposes. Apart from that, it’s useless (and it’s utterly useless in PvE. Period)

*Point-holder bunker – because if they can’t kill you while you are holding a point – you are securing objectives and are in no need of killing anyone at all.
*Superior team support in various ways in terms of CC, Heals and utility – that gives your team the upper hand in fight and is more valuable than the potential damage you would deal instead.

If the purpose does not meet the requirements above – the build is useless. You won’t kill anyone by throwing pencils and swinging a paper sword – and the more enemies dead – the less damage you take. If the enemy has at least 3 digit IQ, it will take them 3 seconds to realize they can ignore you and kill the important targets.

And if you believe that “people will always be there to do stuff for you” – you should think of whether your build is worthy of the help of nice people that are willing to help.

No utility really depends on your group comp. The build I posted above has a high fury and swiftness uptime, 2 group condi cleanses, a nice group precision boost from spotter, some decent cc, and the best water field in the game. Plus it does enough damage that I easily 1v1.

Once the trait change goes though the fury and swiftness uptime will be 100%, I’ll have multiple blast finishers and my damage will greatly increase thanks to remorseless and quick draw.

Just remembered there is also going to be a trait that grants regen to war horn, hopefully I can work that in as well

Tragic Positive.9356:

Manekk.6981:

There’s nothing wrong with having a tanky build, I think you mean there’s no point to use nomad.

Partly true.
There is currently no Power Build that will do besides Zerk. Simply because rangers have sustained damage without any spikes (besides 10 sec CD RF – that is far too long to be considered a pressure).

More importantly – tanks are supposed to soak up damage. By soaking it up – it does mean absorb / overheal / endure. And that role is useless if you can’t kill the target sooner than you go down.
Or in XvY scenatio – you don’t provide even close to needed support or utility to your team that would make the HP utility stick worth (unlike Guardians/Warrior that are godlike here).

If we were talking about condition builds – that still isn’t a tanky build. Those are builds that either bet on your experience of dodge use, or bombing the enemy quicker than they kill you (which still opens 1 stat for defensive since condi doesn’t need 3 stats unlike zerk – but by no means this can be called a tank).

And as the time goes, I’m currently aware of a single “tanky” build – and that would be the condi Full Regen build. That lives long and provides team support via perma regen and swiftness. And still deals more damage than “tanky builds”.

All in all – being a tank has a meaning only if it is made for at least 1 of these 2 purposes. Apart from that, it’s useless (and it’s utterly useless in PvE. Period)

*Point-holder bunker – because if they can’t kill you while you are holding a point – you are securing objectives and are in no need of killing anyone at all.
*Superior team support in various ways in terms of CC, Heals and utility – that gives your team the upper hand in fight and is more valuable than the potential damage you would deal instead.

If the purpose does not meet the requirements above – the build is useless. You won’t kill anyone by throwing pencils and swinging a paper sword – and the more enemies dead – the less damage you take. If the enemy has at least 3 digit IQ, it will take them 3 seconds to realize they can ignore you and kill the important targets.

And if you believe that “people will always be there to do stuff for you” – you should think of whether your build is worthy of the help of nice people that are willing to help.

You’re overthinking that comment, being tanky doesn’t mean you are a tank and have to tank damage it just means you can take a good amount of damage without dropping like a rock aslong as you can kill your opponent being tanky is fine wich means you can pretty much make any prefix work with the right setup exept for nomad wich frankly can’t kill anything, we aren’t talking specific areas of the game either so then being tanky is fine aslong as you kill what you need to kill.

Jim Hunter.6821:

No utility really depends on your group comp. The build I posted above has a high fury and swiftness uptime, 2 group condi cleanses, a nice group precision boost from spotter, some decent cc, and the best water field in the game. Plus it does enough damage that I easily 1v1.

Once the trait change goes though the fury and swiftness uptime will be 100%, I’ll have multiple blast finishers and my damage will greatly increase thanks to remorseless and quick draw.

Your build is undeniably better. Hands down. But some points like “utility depends n the group” – only proves that Ranger brings very few.

But is it any better than the standard Guardian or Warrior soldier’s build? Or better asked… Is it anywhere close to standard Warrior or Guardian front line builds?

While the build has more defenses… It still doesn’t provide enough support to make up for the lack of damage. Because you might not be aware… But 80% of the support your build has is included in casual Zerk build.
Plus, the reason of the build is to deal as much damage as possible. Since the build is for melee range, you’d die quickly (since you are Power and Ranger up to that) because of no utility and that’s why defenses are needed. Your build is a good example of Front line ranger.

Almost an ideal one. But definitely not a tank.
It’s more of a fighter – You’d still die relatively quickly if focused because you lack a way to heal up again. You do not enter a fight with a goal of receiving damage. In reality, you’d like to avoid it if possible.
The defensive stats and abilities you took are to make you live long enough to deal the damage you should.

Manekk.6981:

You’re overthinking that comment, being tanky doesn’t mean you are a tank and have to tank damage it just means you can take a good amount of damage without dropping like a rock aslong as you can kill your opponent being tanky is fine wich means you can pretty much make any prefix work with the right setup exept for nomad wich frankly can’t kill anything, we aren’t talking specific areas of the game either so then being tanky is fine aslong as you kill what you need to kill.

Not necessarily.
There is zero reason to bring a “not-a-tank” tanky ranger when you can simply take a Guardian or Warrior. Sincerely, even an elementalist is more “tanky” in terms of going down fast. But brings a whole horizon more utility and support.

Being tanky is not a ranger’s role. Not yet.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Manekk.6981:

You’re overthinking that comment, being tanky doesn’t mean you are a tank and have to tank damage it just means you can take a good amount of damage without dropping like a rock aslong as you can kill your opponent being tanky is fine wich means you can pretty much make any prefix work with the right setup exept for nomad wich frankly can’t kill anything, we aren’t talking specific areas of the game either so then being tanky is fine aslong as you kill what you need to kill.

Not necessarily.
There is zero reason to bring a “not-a-tank” tanky ranger when you can simply take a Guardian or Warrior. Sincerely, even an elementalist is more “tanky” in terms of going down fast. But brings a whole horizon more utility and support.

Being tanky is not a ranger’s role. Not yet.

Yes there is forget warrior or guard or any other class we are not talking about optimal group setups or any specific part of the game but from the perspective of a ranger wanting to play a ranger being relatively tanky (as opposed to squishie) is never a bad thing aslong as it doesn’t impact negatively on your damage to an extent you can’t kill anything that is all I am saying and I’m simply entirely correct on that.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Jim Hunter.6821:

No utility really depends on your group comp. The build I posted above has a high fury and swiftness uptime, 2 group condi cleanses, a nice group precision boost from spotter, some decent cc, and the best water field in the game. Plus it does enough damage that I easily 1v1.

Once the trait change goes though the fury and swiftness uptime will be 100%, I’ll have multiple blast finishers and my damage will greatly increase thanks to remorseless and quick draw.

Your build is undeniably better. Hands down. But some points like “utility depends n the group” – only proves that Ranger brings very few.

But is it any better than the standard Guardian or Warrior soldier’s build? Or better asked… Is it anywhere close to standard Warrior or Guardian front line builds?

While the build has more defenses… It still doesn’t provide enough support to make up for the lack of damage. Because you might not be aware… But 80% of the support your build has is included in casual Zerk build.
Plus, the reason of the build is to deal as much damage as possible. Since the build is for melee range, you’d die quickly (since you are Power and Ranger up to that) because of no utility and that’s why defenses are needed. Your build is a good example of Front line ranger.

Almost an ideal one. But definitely not a tank.
It’s more of a fighter – You’d still die relatively quickly if focused because you lack a way to heal up again. You do not enter a fight with a goal of receiving damage. In reality, you’d like to avoid it if possible.
The defensive stats and abilities you took are to make you live long enough to deal the damage you should.

Like I said, it depends on the group comp. For example, say I’m running with a couple thieves, thieves can take care of a couple condi’s here and there but a full condi bomb will hurt. A warrior’s shout/warhorn removal isn’t as good at dealing with a big bomb as simply popping SoR. If we are low on health we quickly regroup on the waterfield and shortbow blast to full health.

It’s relatively easy to survive being focused on this build if you manage your cooldowns properly. You just have to use the evades, dodges, blocks, invulnerability, and stability to keep the damage you take to a minimum and then blast and double leap your way back to full health when HS comes off cooldown.

The biggest thing the build is missing compared to the heavy classes isn’t survivability or even utility (depending on group size and comp), it’s just missing that sweet sweet hammer and all the cc it provides. Seriously, anet can keep its druid and staff, let’s bring back the bunnythumper.

Manekk.6981:

Yes there is forget warrior or guard or any other class we are not talking about optimal group setups or any specific part of the game but from the perspective of a ranger wanting to play a ranger being relatively tanky (as opposed to squishie) is never a bad thing aslong as it doesn’t impact negatively on your damage to an extent you can’t kill anything that is all I am saying and I’m simply entirely correct on that.

You are, as well as we all know that a player who plays weak builds is considered a burden or a hindrance that people are trying to avoid.

That is the reason why everybody hates BearBows, why Rangers were kicked on sight in dungeon groups half-a-year ago and why we still don’t like Rangers in Zergs.
Jim Hunter’s front line build is effective because it is more efficient than a Berserker Longbow version that is even more useless in Large-Scale Zergs. If a ranger wants to participate in a Zerg – his build is the way to go.
I know no other uses of Tanky Ranger since in every other environment there is a build with more reward than the tanky version.

If we are talking about recreational play – without not giving a single da**, than I don’t see a reason to bring it to the forums asking for feedback, even less saying that “I know it is weak, I know which alternatives are better, and yet I keep suggesting the inferior option”

Tragic Positive.9356:

Manekk.6981:

Yes there is forget warrior or guard or any other class we are not talking about optimal group setups or any specific part of the game but from the perspective of a ranger wanting to play a ranger being relatively tanky (as opposed to squishie) is never a bad thing aslong as it doesn’t impact negatively on your damage to an extent you can’t kill anything that is all I am saying and I’m simply entirely correct on that.

You are, as well as we all know that a player who plays weak builds is considered a burden or a hindrance that people are trying to avoid.

That is the reason why everybody hates BearBows, why Rangers were kicked on sight in dungeon groups half-a-year ago and why we still don’t like Rangers in Zergs.
Jim Hunter’s front line build is effective because it is more efficient than a Berserker Longbow version that is even more useless in Large-Scale Zergs. If a ranger wants to participate in a Zerg – his build is the way to go.
I know no other uses of Tanky Ranger since in every other environment there is a build with more reward than the tanky version.

If we are talking about recreational play – without not giving a single da**, than I don’t see a reason to bring it to the forums asking for feedback, even less saying that “I know it is weak, I know which alternatives are better, and yet I keep suggesting the inferior option”

This doesn’t feel like a response to anything I have said to be honest.

Manekk.6981:

This doesn’t feel like a response to anything I have said to be honest.

Well, to explain it further: You basically said that if a person wants to play a ranger in a tanky setup (that we all know is weaker than other Tanky roles) – he is free to do so if he finds a way. By that you meant that this game is open for your personal choice of play.

I answered that you, indeed are free to play whatever you want. But you are the one to be pointed out for intentionally playing the weaker roles, if not straight abused for it (hopefully we have one of the best communities).

If you find a way to be tanky, have all the damage and utilility as well as condi cleanse and whatnot at the same – than bravo. You did a great job finding an imaginary build that can’t be real. The best meta builds that have been played for several months are there for a reason.

It probably means that if other professions have meta tanky builds and rangers do not – than we probably suck at it. We might have a way of sort to forcefully fit our way into the environment that requires that tanky damage setup – but we’ll still be the weak version of others – making it pointless to search for a build that “is good at it” when other classes are better by default.

Jim provided one of the ways to fit into the Zerg environment if you really can’t play another (more rewarding) class. But it still doesn’t mean it is powerful enough.
I believe you understand where my point is going.

Manekk.6981:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Manekk.6981:

Yes there is forget warrior or guard or any other class we are not talking about optimal group setups or any specific part of the game but from the perspective of a ranger wanting to play a ranger being relatively tanky (as opposed to squishie) is never a bad thing aslong as it doesn’t impact negatively on your damage to an extent you can’t kill anything that is all I am saying and I’m simply entirely correct on that.

You are, as well as we all know that a player who plays weak builds is considered a burden or a hindrance that people are trying to avoid.

That is the reason why everybody hates BearBows, why Rangers were kicked on sight in dungeon groups half-a-year ago and why we still don’t like Rangers in Zergs.
Jim Hunter’s front line build is effective because it is more efficient than a Berserker Longbow version that is even more useless in Large-Scale Zergs. If a ranger wants to participate in a Zerg – his build is the way to go.
I know no other uses of Tanky Ranger since in every other environment there is a build with more reward than the tanky version.

If we are talking about recreational play – without not giving a single da**, than I don’t see a reason to bring it to the forums asking for feedback, even less saying that “I know it is weak, I know which alternatives are better, and yet I keep suggesting the inferior option”

This doesn’t feel like a response to anything I have said to be honest.

I get his argument, while you are saying it doesn’t hurt anything to run a build just for fun, he is saying anything that isn’t optimal brings the group down and does in fact hurt the team.

And I agree with tragic positive. If I’m running in a zerg and I have a group all running the right specs and they know how to use them properly I will run one of the GWEN classes instead of my ranger.

The problem is my guild usually only does 1 or 2 big runs a week and a good chunk of my guild’s backline consists of newer players that fail to drop water fields when we call for them or they die on the first or 2nd push. There have been a number of times where we pulled out a win after losing the whole back line because we could still blast my water field and full heal our frontline, and my pets keep pretty decent poison up time on the enemy.

And like I explained above, it works really well for skirmishing where having a staff ele would be way less optimal.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Well, to explain it further: You basically said that if a person wants to play a ranger in a tanky setup (that we all know is weaker than other Tanky roles) – he is free to do so if he finds a way. By that you meant that this game is open for your personal choice of play.

There is no logic to this comment unless we specify the builds, I never did that I meerly said being tanky is fine aslong as it’s effective.

Tragic Positive.9356:

I answered that you, indeed are free to play whatever you want. But you are the one to be pointed out for intentionally playing the weaker roles, if not straight abused for it (hopefully we have one of the best communities).

I never said to play a weaker role only that being tanky is fine aslong as you are still effective.

Tragic Positive.9356:

If you find a way to be tanky, have all the damage and utilility as well as condi cleanse and whatnot at the same – than bravo. You did a great job finding an imaginary build that can’t be real. The best meta builds that have been played for several months are there for a reason.

Being tanky while keeping a good damage output isn’t imaginary it’s quite easy to achieve it even just that it’s effectiveness depends a lot on who you’re fighting and where.

Tragic Positive.9356:

It probably means that if other professions have meta tanky builds and rangers do not – than we probably suck at it. We might have a way of sort to forcefully fit our way into the environment that requires that tanky damage setup – but we’ll still be the weak version of others – making it pointless to search for a build that “is good at it” when other classes are better by default.

Jim provided one of the ways to fit into the Zerg environment if you really can’t play another (more rewarding) class. But it still doesn’t mean it is powerful enough.
I believe you understand where my point is going.

I haven’t commented on what other classes’ options are or how they measure up to the ranger ones only that it’s perfectly fine to be more tanky and less squishie aslong as you are effective at what you are doing whatever that may be.

This turned into a long discussion over a very unprecise little comment I just went along with it cause you basically said I was “kinda wrong” I wasn’t and I hate when people claim I am lol.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Manekk.6981:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Manekk.6981:

Yes there is forget warrior or guard or any other class we are not talking about optimal group setups or any specific part of the game but from the perspective of a ranger wanting to play a ranger being relatively tanky (as opposed to squishie) is never a bad thing aslong as it doesn’t impact negatively on your damage to an extent you can’t kill anything that is all I am saying and I’m simply entirely correct on that.

You are, as well as we all know that a player who plays weak builds is considered a burden or a hindrance that people are trying to avoid.

That is the reason why everybody hates BearBows, why Rangers were kicked on sight in dungeon groups half-a-year ago and why we still don’t like Rangers in Zergs.
Jim Hunter’s front line build is effective because it is more efficient than a Berserker Longbow version that is even more useless in Large-Scale Zergs. If a ranger wants to participate in a Zerg – his build is the way to go.
I know no other uses of Tanky Ranger since in every other environment there is a build with more reward than the tanky version.

If we are talking about recreational play – without not giving a single da**, than I don’t see a reason to bring it to the forums asking for feedback, even less saying that “I know it is weak, I know which alternatives are better, and yet I keep suggesting the inferior option”

This doesn’t feel like a response to anything I have said to be honest.

I get his argument, while you are saying it doesn’t hurt anything to run a build just for fun, he is saying anything that isn’t optimal brings the group down and does in fact hurt the team.

And I agree with tragic positive. If I’m running in a zerg and I have a group all running the right specs and they know how to use them properly I will run one of the GWEN classes instead of my ranger.

The problem is my guild usually only does 1 or 2 big runs a week and a good chunk of my guild’s backline consists of newer players that fail to drop water fields when we call for them or they die on the first or 2nd push. There have been a number of times where we pulled out a win after losing the whole back line because we could still blast my water field and full heal our frontline, and my pets keep pretty decent poison up time on the enemy.

And like I explained above, it works really well for skirmishing where having a staff ele would be way less optimal.

I get what he was trying to say aswell, it was just that his reply above was worded in a strange way with some grammar off aswell as adressing something I didn’t say so I literally meant it didn’t sound like a reply to me.

Well, claiming that running tanky builds on ranger is effective…
…
Mathematically speaking you are wrong. Other ranger builds are superior in the reward they bring. It can be effective if being tanky is the only way to go in the particular environment. Apart from that – Rangers’ strengths are clearly at an absolutely different place.
We, sadly, have to sacrifice quite a lot in order to be tanky. By playing tanky – you already are less effective than your ranger meta. Being tanky while dealing considerable amount of damage is possible. Does it meet the requirements? No.

There are players running around naked winning fights. Does that mean their stats/builds are OP? Not really. They just knew how to play. Statement of “as long as you kill the enemy” is irrelevant. Another enemy (might just happened to be the naked one) might kill you regardless of who was the AFK player you killed before.

The discussion is about rewards / risks / potential of the build choices.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Well, claiming that running tanky builds on ranger is effective…
…
Mathematically speaking you are wrong. Other ranger builds are superior in the reward they bring. It can be effective if being tanky is the only way to go in the particular environment. Apart from that – Rangers’ strengths are clearly at an absolutely different place.
We, sadly, have to sacrifice quite a lot in order to be tanky. By playing tanky – you already are less effective than your ranger meta. Being tanky while dealing considerable amount of damage is possible. Does it meet the requirements? No.

There are players running around naked winning fights. Does that mean their stats/builds are OP? Not really. They just knew how to play. Statement of “as long as you kill the enemy” is irrelevant. Another enemy (might just happened to be the naked one) might kill you regardless of who was the AFK player you killed before.

The discussion is about rewards / risks / potential of the build choices.

Math only takes you so far. If you catch someone by surprise you can easily throw them off their game and make them panic. People expect rangers to be condi or longbow, they are used to fighting those builds, most of them are very slow to adapt when you present them with something different.

For example, when I was leveling a ranger on an alt account I started solo roaming around lvl 30ish as a condi ranger with S/T shortbow. Mathematically I stood no chance against the people I was fighting, My damage was much weaker than theirs but I ended up winning 90% of my fights because my opponents kitten the fights expecting an easy win and would panic when I snared and condi bombed them.

Without a doubt skill level played a big part in those fights, but I went into those fights knowing I had to do everything I could to keep from getting hit and outplaying them while they expected me to be a push over.

I’ve done the same thing in PvP whenever I have an extra character slot. I’ll take my level 2 ranger in, run him in full starter gear without a title and end up kitten stomping people because they look at me and expect me to be a joke.

The best part is they start raging in chat and I play it up like I just got the game that day to embarrass them even more.

Jim, but that would be human factor that has nothing in common with the strength of a build. You know that I played that kind of mind play build myself, I believe we mentioned it some time ago in a different thread.

But regardless, I realized that if I met the same person twice – I was the one to lose. What you are talking about is a one time advantage. Surprise effect can be achieved even in standard builds. That doesn’t mean the build is strong. It only means your opponent wasn’t ready.

As you said – the very same effect can be achieved if you make a lvl 2 char and equip it with default armor. Not only you are in your effective version – you can also play the build where Ranger shines.

Well the surprise factor is definitely more of a thing in the uplevel situation. Running something out of the meta can work multiple times because people don’t automatically know how to counter you and a lot of people are just flat out unwilling to change their build or play style. You know that’s true because of all the qq threads we get from people that think it’s unfair they should have to adapt to longbow rangers.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Well, claiming that running tanky builds on ranger is effective…

It certainly can be, not all builds work everywhere against everyone that doesn’t mean it’s something useless, you know this aswell so I don’t know why you need to make it sound like I said something diffrent or make such a big deal out of this.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Mathematically speaking you are wrong. Other ranger builds are superior in the reward they bring.

No I am not, you again talk as if I claimed a specific build is fantastic, I have not mentioned any specific build so this also means you can’t claim that other builds are superior, why is this so difficult for you?

Tragic Positive.9356:

It can be effective if being tanky is the only way to go in the particular environment.

Yes and it can also be effective if there are numerous ways to go, it doesn’t have to be the absolute best way to be effective and thus perfectly fine wich was precisely what I started out saying.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Apart from that – Rangers’ strengths are clearly at an absolutely different place.

It depends on what you do, who you fight and/or how many you fight.

Tragic Positive.9356:

We, sadly, have to sacrifice quite a lot in order to be tanky.

We don’t have to sacrifice any more than other classes depending on where and how of course but in some cases we can still dish out more damage than others because of our pet too.

By playing tanky – you already are less effective than your ranger meta. Being tanky while dealing considerable amount of damage is possible. Does it meet the requirements? No.

That is complete nonsense a dead person is the least effective you can be so any given scenario where your extra survival keeps you alive while still dealing considerable amounts of damage to kill opponents certainly meets requirements of being fine.

Tragic Positive.9356:

There are players running around naked winning fights. Does that mean their stats/builds are OP? Not really. They just knew how to play. Statement of “as long as you kill the enemy” is irrelevant. Another enemy (might just happened to be the naked one) might kill you regardless of who was the AFK player you killed before.

What purpose does this nonsense serve? let’s just assume your opponents are not naked or afk can we do that? ok good! killing your opponent is likely the main objective so if your build helps you do that it’s hardly irrelevant is it.

Tragic Positive.9356:

The discussion is about rewards / risks / potential of the build choices.

Sure that is exactly it yes and certain builds can be quite tanky and have more rewards than less tanky ones too so then they are without a shadow of a doubt fine.

I’m tired of this nonsense now honestly why all this fuss?

Jim Hunter.6821:

Well the surprise factor is definitely more of a thing in the uplevel situation. Running something out of the meta can work multiple times because people don’t automatically know how to counter you and a lot of people are just flat out unwilling to change their build or play style. You know that’s true because of all the qq threads we get from people that think it’s unfair they should have to adapt to longbow rangers.

I can’t say for sure because I haven’t been to high-rank battles yet, but people in my league learn pretty fast. And I’m phoenix only.

The only build they strive to figure out is my current celestial build, since people constantly assume that Longbow is my deadly weapon.
… And then they come to melee range …

But that would be the mind trick. It’s hard to imagine Longbow with anything else than Zerk. But it’s definitely easy to realize that the ranger without one will be harder to bring down and will deal less burst damage – meaning sustainable classes like warriors or eles should be sent to fight them head on.

The point in my build is that they need both defenses against high direct damage and high condi bombing pressure. And I still end up quite healthy most of the time. It’s not like it takes long to realize the counter-play. There is close to none. But that is something different than the tanky “surprise” topic. In that case it’s simply “deals direct damage? Has low access to condi cleanse? Lacks burst?” that will only stay ignored by the worse players.
Which is the scenario of playing against bad players that is partly irrelevant.

@Manekk
I believe I hit the point where I ran out of wisdom and would only have to repeat what I already said. We’d end up going over and over again.
If you could just provide a single tanky build for sPvP – the one you’d visualize as the powerful and fit for a “specific use” – that would be more useful than the standard Condi Survival or my celestial build I’m running – it would really help the discussion since you are not accepting any of the builds I pointed out and you haven’t stated any yourself. It would be ideal if you left Jim’s provided build and the Full Regen one I mentioned out. Currently, everything you said is a theory with “not-yet-mentioned” builds that I’m afraid I am not aware off. And believe me, I theory-crafted quite a bunch.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Well the surprise factor is definitely more of a thing in the uplevel situation. Running something out of the meta can work multiple times because people don’t automatically know how to counter you and a lot of people are just flat out unwilling to change their build or play style. You know that’s true because of all the qq threads we get from people that think it’s unfair they should have to adapt to longbow rangers.

I can’t say for sure because I haven’t been to high-rank battles yet, but people in my league learn pretty fast. And I’m phoenix only.

The only build they strive to figure out is my current celestial build, since people constantly assume that Longbow is my deadly weapon.
… And then they come to melee range …

But that would be the mind trick. It’s hard to imagine Longbow with anything else than Zerk. But it’s definitely easy to realize that the ranger without one will be harder to bring down and will deal less burst damage – meaning sustainable classes like warriors or eles should be sent to fight them head on.

The point in my build is that they need both defenses against high direct damage and high condi bombing pressure. And I still end up quite healthy most of the time. It’s not like it takes long to realize the counter-play. There is close to none. But that is something different than the tanky “surprise” topic. In that case it’s simply “deals direct damage? Has low access to condi cleanse? Lacks burst?” that will only stay ignored by the worse players.
Which is the scenario of playing against bad players that is partly irrelevant.
.

I was speaking more from a WvW point of view where you have a lot more freedom with your build. PvP is a lot easier to figure out because of the trinket system, especially since 99% of people are running zerk, rabid or cele. I’ve come up with some hybrid builds in WvW that infuriated people.

Jim Hunter.6821:

I was speaking more from a WvW point of view where you have a lot more freedom with your build. PvP is a lot easier to figure out because of the trinket system, especially since 99% of people are running zerk, rabid or cele. I’ve come up with some hybrid builds in WvW that infuriated people.

I can imagine. I came up with quite some of them myself… But 80% of them lacked mobility which is #1 for WvW purposes. I ended up running my Full Glass stealth Sniper in small scale roaming group that used Signet of the Hunt.
I made an ele just for the WvW environment. But I haven’t logged him in quite some time. School got the priority and I mostly came for the dailies or for Daily Fractal.

Non-zerg WvW is mostly about high mobility paired with good contesting features. Even if you lack the luck to win a fight / duel – you can disengage, reset and try again.

Full Melee ranger I once played was excellent at this. The spam of evades was pretty serious. The good old 1v3 times… I can’t wait for pre-HoT changes to do it again.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Jim Hunter.6821:

I was speaking more from a WvW point of view where you have a lot more freedom with your build. PvP is a lot easier to figure out because of the trinket system, especially since 99% of people are running zerk, rabid or cele. I’ve come up with some hybrid builds in WvW that infuriated people.

I can imagine. I came up with quite some of them myself… But 80% of them lacked mobility which is #1 for WvW purposes. I ended up running my Full Glass stealth Sniper in small scale roaming group that used Signet of the Hunt.
I made an ele just for the WvW environment. But I haven’t logged him in quite some time. School got the priority and I mostly came for the dailies or for Daily Fractal.

Non-zerg WvW is mostly about high mobility paired with good contesting features. Even if you lack the luck to win a fight / duel – you can disengage, reset and try again.

Full Melee ranger I once played was excellent at this. The spam of evades was pretty serious. The good old 1v3 times… I can’t wait for pre-HoT changes to do it again.

Oh I absolutely agree, Almost all of my roaming builds either use shouts or speed runes. The tanky build above does a pretty good job of stacking swiftness with warhorn and RaO. most people don’t realize how much damage you can mitigate (condi or direct) in a fight just by maintaining Perma swiftness.

just wait until new content patch hits. tanky builds will be very strong with 3 grandmasters. 6/6/6/0/0 for power and 0/0/6/6/6 for condi/bm. no point trying anything until then, as everything is changing for us.

This is my Melee build I run when I solo. Pretty Tanky

has a lot going for it and when stacked can put out some good DPS particularly when Enlarged and Quickened…It has 2 stun beaks, decent toughness/hits…reliable but not spectacular condition removal, good fury, quick CD on all sword skills (very good mobility) great dodge/evade/protection up time as well …decent pet DPS/SOS mix…sneaky good passive health regen with little investment. It all ascended but its what I wear /shrug

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNUQNAR8XjEqUyaFLusQ1aABhaVA0uGu3UwdTkvfdFrkC-TFCEAB2t/wTK/SU9ntUCiwDAoNdDAcEAe4iAEAAB4m3Mb2mBDdoDdoDdoN0bO0bO0dWKguWGB-w