Guild Wars 2

I found taunt ranger somehow very much OP, how about this? do they can win dd cele ele?

thx

Taunt is not OP, its just the opposite of fear with a decent CD to give Ranger some usefulness. Sure, they can win vs D/D cele ele but how often against a good one?

The term overpowered is being thrown around so much one can wonder if in most cases it cuz the accuser dont understand how mechanics work, or how to set it up :/

Cele dd ele is a bit OP though

taunt is pretty much broken, going through evades, blocks, blinds and has no casting time/animation while being on a cooldown of 15s. many rangers try to defend this trait because it makes them feel like they can be good with it because it removes the need of actually having to land your pet immobs or knockdowns to burst. rangers should get buffs but not stuff like this that angers the whole rest of the community.

Jekkt.6045:

but not stuff like this that angers the whole rest of the community.

What doesn’t anger the pvp community?

Jekkt.6045:

taunt is pretty much broken, going through evades, blocks, blinds and has no casting time/animation while being on a cooldown of 15s. many rangers try to defend this trait because it makes them feel like they can be good with it because it removes the need of actually having to land your pet immobs or knockdowns to burst. rangers should get buffs but not stuff like this that angers the whole rest of the community.

You keep preaching this statment but its full of inaccuracies.

The skill is not insta cast, insta cast means that somthing will accour when you activate it. on average your pet F2 will be activated like 5 sec after pressing the F2, depends on the pet/ depends on the F2 type. To have insta cast taunt, it needs to be out of CD(which you cant be always 100% sure it actually is) and you need to swap pet +F2 and even this combo that reqiers 3requirements(F4 is not on CD, taunt is not on CD, F2 in not on CD), wont always work.

The skill is very much predictable and evadble because it attached to a very predictable and evadble AI attack patterns , to play around the ever chasing pet syndrome that cant land a single hit, ranger has to closen up the distnace of the fight and use F4 combos alot(as mentioned above).

The 15 CD is irrelevant as the skill attached to other requirements as mentioned above.

Ya, it ignores blocks/blinds and skill evades( but not dodges) taunt is not the only skill in the game that function this way(gurdian GS comes to mind), but remeber that pet cant realy cleanse blinds, break stuns, , evade skill etc.. and its very easy to kill espically for condi builds(lets c u survive with 9 burns with no way to cleans).

" it makes them feel like they can be good with it because it removes the need of actually having to land your pet immobs or knockdowns to burst" – That is the most ridiculous statment you have made, the immob from spiders adn KD from wolves are passive and very much RNG, ranger put no effort on integrate them into his combat moves, if it lands, it lands. Taunt do requier an active play as mentioned above.

I’m not syaing taunt shouldnt be looked at closly by the developers but i’m not confident it is OP, I think that on any scenario, it should stay on 15 sec CD and be unblockable, not sure about unevadble by skills. As a ranger that often duel other rangers I dont c to much of a problem playing around taunt, I just time right my stablity uptime and dont even bother to check pet position.

LughLongArm.5460:

Jekkt.6045:

taunt is pretty much broken, going through evades, blocks, blinds and has no casting time/animation while being on a cooldown of 15s. many rangers try to defend this trait because it makes them feel like they can be good with it because it removes the need of actually having to land your pet immobs or knockdowns to burst. rangers should get buffs but not stuff like this that angers the whole rest of the community.

" it makes them feel like they can be good with it because it removes the need of actually having to land your pet immobs or knockdowns to burst" – That is the most ridiculous statment you have made, the immob from spiders adn KD from wolves are passive and very much RNG, ranger put no effort on integrate them into his combat moves, if it lands, it lands. Taunt do requier an active play as mentioned above.

I’m not syaing taunt shouldnt be looked at closly by the developers but i’m not confident it is OP, I think that on any scenario, it should stay on 15 sec CD and be unblockable, not sure about unevadble by skills. As a ranger that often duel other rangers I dont c to much of a problem playing around taunt, I just time right my stablity uptime and dont even bother to check pet position.

it is not predictable most of the time, you do not know when a ranger is going to cast the pet skill and taunt has no skill animation as the taunt starts with the casting time of pet skills, like with the wolf fear. you will have the rangers pet on you most of the time so activating the taunt is not as telegraphed as you want to make it look like.

wrong, first, the spider has 1 immob as f2 and 2nd the pets will always try to use their skills with the longest cooldowns first. so if you switch in a canine it will always try to use its knockdown first if the target is in range, you can very well play with that but people just don’t care about figuring out such stuff.

not every class has access to stability on demand and taunt can be very problematic for them, especially if it doesn’t let them block or evade it.

Again as said further up, sometimes more accurate F2 pets like birds are circling around/after the target in wierd paths due to the enemy movement. But most of all cuz of poor AI. During this theres a lot of downtime, not to mention birds are fragile and can easily die when subject to focus/aoe damage over seconds, which denies taunt. I’m not buying the “taunt is OP” rant when every class has something, and in this case taunt is not 100% reliable. We also have yet to hear feedback from devs stating it’s working as intended going through blocks/certain evades.

i never said taunt was op, i said taunt was broken because it goes through certain defensive measures which should not be the case and activates before actual pet skills activate. it’s about the way taunt works, not what it does.

Shouldn’t be the case according to whom?

Puck.9612:

Shouldn’t be the case according to whom?

according to common sense and tooltip

Jekkt.6045:

taunt is pretty much broken, going through evades, blocks, blinds and has no casting time/animation while being on a cooldown of 15s. many rangers try to defend this trait because it makes them feel like they can be good with it because it removes the need of actually having to land your pet immobs or knockdowns to burst. rangers should get buffs but not stuff like this that angers the whole rest of the community.

This explains my previous post, that theres a setup involved to land it which justifies its “Instant cast” once the bird pet connects (since every other pet but cans cant land it properly). In any event, it’s not the saving grace, its just a CC many chose to complain about because anger management.

there is no real setup involved to this. the pet is on the target, when you activate taunt can other than trying to figure out what the ranger is gonna do next, not be preditced or dodged. the canine f2 skills were always strong when used right but there was at least counter play to them. this cannot be said for taunt as there is no real counterplay which is unhealthy for the game. i know rangers can need every little bit of help but at least in a fair way.

Jekkt.6045:

…rangers should get buffs but not stuff like this that angers the whole rest of the community.

Let’s be honest, any buffs the Ranger got would anger the community. That is the nature of the community. So, I pretty much do not care if they are angered at all, they get angered over everything because a majority of the pvp community are salty children who cannot handle being beaten by Rangers, when it happens… ANet shouldn’t be listening to whining teenagers.

Jekkt.6045:

Puck.9612:

Shouldn’t be the case according to whom?

according to common sense and tooltip

The tool tips in this game are horrendous, how many inaccurate and incomplete tool tips have been in the game since the betas?

As for common sense… To me it’s pretty fair that the taunt goes through several forms of defense since it is attached to our pets and it is far from being instant cast. The bird is the only pet that reliably lands the taunt because they tend to stick to the target. Pretty much every other pet has at least a 50% chance of missing as long as the player you are fighting isn’t standing still.

Jekkt.6045:

LughLongArm.5460:

Jekkt.6045:

taunt is pretty much broken, going through evades, blocks, blinds and has no casting time/animation while being on a cooldown of 15s. many rangers try to defend this trait because it makes them feel like they can be good with it because it removes the need of actually having to land your pet immobs or knockdowns to burst. rangers should get buffs but not stuff like this that angers the whole rest of the community.

" it makes them feel like they can be good with it because it removes the need of actually having to land your pet immobs or knockdowns to burst" – That is the most ridiculous statment you have made, the immob from spiders adn KD from wolves are passive and very much RNG, ranger put no effort on integrate them into his combat moves, if it lands, it lands. Taunt do requier an active play as mentioned above.

I’m not syaing taunt shouldnt be looked at closly by the developers but i’m not confident it is OP, I think that on any scenario, it should stay on 15 sec CD and be unblockable, not sure about unevadble by skills. As a ranger that often duel other rangers I dont c to much of a problem playing around taunt, I just time right my stablity uptime and dont even bother to check pet position.

it is not predictable most of the time, you do not know when a ranger is going to cast the pet skill and taunt has no skill animation as the taunt starts with the casting time of pet skills, like with the wolf fear. you will have the rangers pet on you most of the time so activating the taunt is not as telegraphed as you want to make it look like.

wrong, first, the spider has 1 immob as f2 and 2nd the pets will always try to use their skills with the longest cooldowns first. so if you switch in a canine it will always try to use its knockdown first if the target is in range, you can very well play with that but people just don’t care about figuring out such stuff.

not every class has access to stability on demand and taunt can be very problematic for them, especially if it doesn’t let them block or evade it.

The paly around is just to keep 240 distance from the pet, when a thief or a mesmer blink out for example and jump back on you, the pet will take a tour to the blink location and back, which makes the ranger to swap alot and closen the distance, it a very active play espcially to a long range play of style like the LB. Also stability and resistance uptime, vs a ranger I just ask myself, if I have nee tuaned for the last 10 sec, if not I prepare for it with RAO or SOTW or just keeping an eye out for the pet location.
And BTW if you use wolf u’ll never get the taunt even remotly close to 15 sec CD as the wolf F2 alone is 36 sec CD(traited). So the CD is not as short as you want to make it look like.

Most rangers know about swapping a pet, praying for the brutal charge/tail swipe , but like most things about the pet, its very unrelibale and clunky and doesnt alwasy work. Just check it on dummy target and c how much times it will happend out of 10 tries.
When playing vs good playes you dont realy like to be in a position where you have to pray for somthing to go of. And ya, there is a reason why lots of players used to take forest spider over the jungle one, low chance to land that single projactile once every 45 sec(36 if traited).

I think now almost every class got some sord of stability/resistance/Invulnerability uptime, even necros(repear stablity uptime is insane). On some builds its very hard to land even a single taunt.

Jekkt.6045:

there is no real setup involved to this. the pet is on the target, when you activate taunt can other than trying to figure out what the ranger is gonna do next, not be preditced or dodged. the canine f2 skills were always strong when used right but there was at least counter play to them. this cannot be said for taunt as there is no real counterplay which is unhealthy for the game. i know rangers can need every little bit of help but at least in a fair way.

But there is a setup to land taunt, I’ll repeat myself. The pet is trying to chase it’s moving target but it cant continously keep up. Even in my own vids theres plenty of footage where the pet is trying to connect but theres downtime on its AA’s because “human movement” > AI movement. Sometimes, due to poor AI, your pet is litterarly circling/stopping before it changes its direction based on target. This is downtime. Sometimes you also have to move your pet from you to your target which also prevents “Instant cast”.
The pet can also die from aoe/damage which prevents taunt usage and locks it out for 1 minute.

Other times taunt lands smoothly, which means within a few seconds from pressing F2. Other times it doesn’t because the target has stability, which is a Counter, which is something you claim doesnt exist. Theres a setup, risk, and counter to it.

Taunt is not op in any way.

Jekkt.6045:

activates before actual pet skills activate. it’s about the way taunt works, not what it does.

There is a difference between activation and execution. All traits related pet skills work like this. The trait triggers when you activate the skill, on other words when you WANT it to activate.

Having it delayed to when the pet actually hits would be kitten awful. It’s already potentially delayed by the pet’s bad AI.

This is silly, taunt has actually made our pets something you have to pay attention to. You don’t sit there and face tank minions, turrets, or memser clones do ya? Kite that kitten! (it’s actually really, really easy and takes little to zero skill) If you are letting something sit in your lap, you deserve it. The radius is soooo small.

Speaking of which, if you think taunt is broken, what are your thoughts on mantra of distraction (1200 range)? ;p Or guardians gs #5? Or Moa? Warriors and Revs will have access to taunt with HoT. You posting this in their forums?

I think there is a stigma of when someone (cc ele for example) loses to a ranger, that it couldn’t possibly be because they got out-played. They will cry op or “broken mechanic” (op).

When I pvp with ranger the personal attacks (messages, map-chat, etc.) are far more frequent and far more hostile than when I am on any other class.

Dolt.2731:

This is silly, taunt has actually made our pets something you have to pay attention to. You don’t sit there and face tank minions, turrets, or memser clones do ya? Kite that kitten! (it’s actually really, really easy and takes little to zero skill) If you are letting something sit in your lap, you deserve it. The radius is soooo small.

Speaking of which, if you think taunt is broken, what are your thoughts on mantra of distraction (1200 range)? ;p Or guardians gs #5? Or Moa? Warriors and Revs will have access to taunt with HoT. You posting this in their forums?

I think there is a stigma of when someone (cc ele for example) loses to a ranger, that it couldn’t possibly be because they got out-played. They will cry op or “broken mechanic” (op).

When I pvp with ranger the personal attacks (messages, map-chat, etc.) are far more frequent and far more hostile than when I am on any other class.

mantra of distraction needs a 1/4 casting time. most mesmers don’t use it for the interrupting functionality but just so that they can land their mirrorblade because otherwise they would fail at it.

guardian’s gs 5 is actually well dodgeable if you watch the animation, if you still get hit by it you can determine when they will use the pull, either after laying down the field or when #2 is off cooldown.

bringing up revenant’s taunt is ridiculous. the skill costs 50 energy, has an activation time, a travel time and can be reflected…

fyi, i said taunt was broken not that a 2s cc was op. and yes i play ele, and no i don’t lose to rangers. ranger is even my 4th most played class after thief and guard.

This thread is ridiculous ;p You can kill the pet, it’s not difficult to do and completely nullify the ability. No other class in the game can have a gm trait taken away mid-fight.

It’s a new ability, adapt and move on.

Taunt probably needs a look at but its not OP….

Rangers suck in PvP. Period. Just had another ESL without a single ranger even playing in the tournament. They are bad enough. Let them have a buggy/broken taunt, its the only thing that is remotely useful about ranger. This class is currently a laughing stock.

SkiTz.4590:

Taunt probably needs a look at but its not OP….

Rangers suck in PvP. Period. Just had another ESL without a single ranger even playing in the tournament. They are bad enough. Let them have a buggy/broken taunt, its the only thing that is remotely useful about ranger. This class is currently a laughing stock.

what i want is that they give ranger real stuff, so that they don’t have to rely on broken mechanics.. and i hope that druid will work that way. i personally enjoy ranger, more the condi one than the power one, only being able to play it “for fun” is a bit depressing. i use taunt myself on a tripple trap troll build and i see how broken it can be, it’s not viable at all so it is not op, but it’s still broken.

SkiTz.4590:

Taunt probably needs a look at but its not OP….

Rangers suck in PvP. Period. Just had another ESL without a single ranger even playing in the tournament.

Ehh not entirely true. Olrun, Caed and Shnicky all ran ranger at some point. Of course if you mean no ranger main, then yes you are correct.

Jekkt.6045:

not every class has access to stability on demand and taunt can be very problematic for them, especially if it doesn’t let them block or evade it.

Ranger has none at all.
Lots of classes have CC that requires no animation to be cast.
Rangers are the only ones that take almost 2 seconds to charge (wolf) that you even cannot be sure it will hit.

Just suck it up and deal with the fact that Rangers finally got a skill that is useful.
Everyone else already have some.
Or do you want to tell me that Thief coming from Stealth with Stun Venom is less reliable or more obvious?

Jekkt is actually correct here, I play ranger, 1.7k games in pvp. Taunt has no tells especially with the bird.

Pets f2 without taunt has counterplay since most f2s like the canines have cast time. But with taunt, it procs taunt first, which is instant, making the f2 really unavoidable.

To the one who is saying kill the pet.

Really? Kill the pet? good rangers have great pet management. Goodluck killing the pet solo.

As a ranger, the effect of Taunt is not OP.
What is frustrating is that its not clear how to counter taunt, from an enemy perspective.

Taunt should not go through weaponskill evades or actual evades.

Should it go through block: thats debatable. A large amount of shouts that effect enemies are listed as Unblockable, but not all of them. If its intended that taunt is not blockable, then the tooltip for BeastWithin should say unblockable to avoid confusion.

However it works, it should be clearly stated so that enemies know what their options are. “Avoid the pet”, “Kill the pet”, these are not counters. They are mitagation strategies. The problems we have as rangers just being able to get F2 skills to work properly do not justify the ambiguity or lack of information regarding how to counter this skill.

general response of the pvp community when ranger get’s something decent:

TAKE IT AWAY!

you do realize there are more sources of aoe taunt incoming with revenant and it functions the opposite of fear, a lot of necro fears have no tells either. where is the big difference? oh yea, ranger.

Jekkt.6045:

this cannot be said for taunt as there is no real counterplay which is unhealthy for the game

If you care about the health of the (spvp) game please feel free to go back to the Ele forum and help contribute to the nerfing of the D/D Cele plague.

Jekkt.6045:

not every class has access to stability on demand and taunt can be very problematic for them, especially if it doesn’t let them block or evade it.

Pretty much every class has stun breaks. If they aren’t using them intelligently against a class with few hard CC’s then that is their problem.

What? You were talking about those builds in an PvP environment? Taunts should be telegraphed in some way but they are fine in the current state.

BTW you should join WvW for some nice duels if you are talking about builds like that so get an idea what op is…really…you can build some really annoying cheese builds with the stat combos and buff food.

Jekkt.6045:

taunt is pretty much broken, going through evades, blocks, blinds and has no casting time/animation while being on a cooldown of 15s. many rangers try to defend this trait because it makes them feel like they can be good with it because it removes the need of actually having to land your pet immobs or knockdowns to burst. rangers should get buffs but not stuff like this that angers the whole rest of the community.

Taunt does interrupt evades and I will give it to you that that’s bs, it does not go through blocks, I’ve tried many times on guardians running shelter and it doesnt interrupt it, you can outrun a pet without swiftness so if you’re standing still to get caught with it in pvp you probably deserved to die anyways, the skill itself doesnt go through blinds, it is an aoe it gets everything within that radius and it’s a pet skill, so if you blind my ranger why should it cause my pet to miss, people need to get over it everytime ranger gets something nice, necros can fear, mesmers can stealth and invuln and reflect, guardians can stack 16 ticks of burning traited for it, thiefs pistol 3 can hit me through my only block skill, dunno about aegis since my class cant do that either. Tell me what class you play and ill name something you have that i’d like on my class, but I won’t call it OP just because it might cc me for 2 seconds.

What I really want is for a dev to come in and tell us whether it is broken or not.

Sarision.6347:

What I really want is for a dev to come in and tell us whether it is broken or not.

or a dev to come in and tell us anything in regards to ranger in general…..idgaf about taunt, tell me about freaking druid.

I am warrior. Comparing this taunt to Fear me, we can use this fear me 1 time per 46sec but i saw that they, rangers, actually be able to spam this taunt. Almost 1time per 20sec something? And it was unblockable. thay’s why i thought taunt is op.

online.1278:

I am warrior. Comparing this taunt to Fear me, we can use this fear me 1 time per 46sec but i saw that they, rangers, actually be able to spam this taunt. Almost 1time per 20sec something? And it was unblockable. thay’s why i thought taunt is op.

But you cant compare them, two different classes and mechanics, or maybe you want to homogenize classes? Lets give everyone a 45 sec stun, a 30 sec knockdown and so forth. And the definition of spam on wiki for games is using an action/skill repeatedly. Is using an ability every 15th sec with often 2-5 sec execution time regarded as spam?

Taunt only works on d/d elem if you can get them under 90% health, first. Depending on your build, that might be hard to do. Ranger can beat inexperienced d/d elems without too much problem. You’ll should be able to stalemate the really good ones at best (assuming you stay out of the fire and have a kitten load of evasion available)

The only actual problem with taunt is that the devs haven’t actually stated how taunt is supposed to work. Yes they said it causes you to auto the target and run towards them. Yes they said it’s a condi blah blah blah. All they need to do is come out and say “this is a cc that we intend to go through certain skills like blocks, and evades etcc….” OR “hey guys really sorry we never intended taunt to work in this manner.”

Honestly it’s not that big a deal at the moment. If you died because you got taunted you probably would have died to some other cc anyway. The devs are however going to have a major issue on their hands if HOT goes live, taunt continues to work the way it does, and they don’t at least pop on to the forums to actually state their position.

Kinda hard for me to believe someone wishes the best for ranger and at the same time is calling for some sort of nerf to taunt, all the while having a signature that states he is an ele.

Let me put this argument to bed. Taunt needs a rework in the sense that it doesn’t go THROUGH dodges/blocks. But I would like them to keep going through EVADES. Reason? Revenants. You guys will want to have a taunt ranger on your side when revenants dominate the meta in the upcoming expansion. UA is just simply broken and pet taunt goes through it. Which is a nice counterplay. Otherwise, feel free to waste 2 dodges to eat 5 more hits.

So basically…Keep taunt the way it is while fixing the going through dodges/block part. And taunt will be in a good place. It needs to go through evades. It’s the only counterplay good rangers will have against mesmers/revs in the upcoming expansion.

Taunt is a condition atm. It can be cleansed…Stun breaked…Stab counters it…Berserker’s stance/condi immunity counters it (including diamond skin). Keep that in mind as you build your character.

Lettuce.2945:

Let me put this argument to bed. Taunt needs a rework in the sense that it doesn’t go THROUGH dodges/blocks. But I would like them to keep going through EVADES. Reason? Revenants. You guys will want to have a taunt ranger on your side when revenants dominate the meta in the upcoming expansion. UA is just simply broken and pet taunt goes through it.

you do know that the effect of unrelenting assault is halfed because you have a pet right? it’s even weaker against mesmers or everything that has AI or multiple targets.

EnderzShadow.2506:

Kinda hard for me to believe someone wishes the best for ranger and at the same time is calling for some sort of nerf to taunt, all the while having a signature that states he is an ele.

yes, to your surprise and even if i main ele i wish for all classes to be viable and balanced, this also goes for ele and i have suggested multiple reasonable nerfs for that aswell. just because my main is ele doesn’t mean that i can’t like ranger.

Honestly… I don’t think you play ranger very much. It is very difficult to land, particularly at the exact time you want. Pet pathing is incredibly frustrating, they don’t dodge and blindly walk into aoe cc, get caught up on a “rock” (seriously, this happens way to often) And root themselves upon activating f2 ability so if you are simply walking away from pet, you have a decent shot at passively avoiding the very small range it has.

Any smart team can burst the pet down w/o batting an eyelash, bye bye gm trait.

Or I have to bring it back to me which means that i have to yo-yo my pet making this ability even more difficult to land.

You generally have to combo into it for a decent success rate.

You act as if we can just activate it off CD and lol our way to victory.

sorry but no smart team would ever “burst the pet” in an actual fight. the only exception would be from cleave when you’re in downed and you have the downed skill 3.

Well if no smart team deem it necessary to remove from a fight. Then it must not be all that powerful of an ability.

Dolt.2731:

Well if no smart team deem it necessary to remove from a fight. Then it must not be all that powerful of an ability.

Touche.

Any smart team would definitely remove a threat in the form of Taunt if it were powerful, especially when it is tied to an AI that cannot dodge your attacks, one that you and your team can kill with incidental damage.