Guild Wars 2

We are laughed at when we take two bows (and perhaps there is a bit of reason tied to DPS, certainly).

But how many rangers picked the class because it had bows?

In short, ANET has it where playing the class “as the player wanted to” results in others hating your playing the class. Talk about missed expectations.

Sure, some folks wanted a melee ranger but I am guessing the vast majority thought ranger-archer or ranger-pets and a few ranger-traps. In both cases, that would be ranger-worth less (not per se worthless). Fairly sure, the expectation wasn’t ranger-lots of eye candy spirits.

Now let’s talk pets. Ranger seems “woodsman” in the stereotype I brought to choosing the class. What are our best pets? Would you find them or a bear in the woods?

The whole class just feels odd like it shouldn’t even be called a ranger.
Can you have fun with it? Sure. Is it what you expected? I seriously doubt it.

Can we still have fun, I suppose. But ultimately, the ranger

Bombsaway.7198:

We are laughed at when we take two bows (and perhaps there is a bit of reason tied to DPS, certainly).

But how many rangers picked the class because it had bows?

In short, ANET has it where playing the class “as the player wanted to” results in others hating your playing the class. Talk about missed expectations.

Sure, some folks wanted a melee ranger but I am guessing the vast majority thought ranger-archer or ranger-pets and a few ranger-traps. In both cases, that would be ranger-worth less (not per se worthless). Fairly sure, the expectation wasn’t ranger-lots of eye candy spirits.

Now let’s talk pets. Ranger seems “woodsman” in the stereotype I brought to choosing the class. What are our best pets? Would you find them or a bear in the woods?

The whole class just feels odd like it shouldn’t even be called a ranger.
Can you have fun with it? Sure. Is it what you expected? I seriously doubt it.

Can we still have fun, I suppose. But ultimately, the ranger

I picked ranger to be an archer, but I hardly consider an archer someone who carries two bows. Historically, archers throw down their bows and pick up another weapon when the enemy gets too close for the bow to be effective. Since archers weren’t as rich as knights, they would be using cheaper weapons, not fancy swords, but I’d say this game is doing fairly well at portraying a true archer. Closer than most games at least.

Having a strong ranged weapon and a strong melee weapon can cover up a lot of weaknesses that other classes have to deal with.

If you like bows, pick one. I’d suggest determining whether you want conditions or power, shortbow for conditions, long for power. Then pick a melee weapon. And if you’re worried about stigma, pick any pet other than a bear.

And as for being told how to play, try figuring out talents in the guardian tree, or playing as a guardian when you like to think of yourself as a warrior, not a caster (good luck finding a ranged weapon). Or play as a thief who wants to be an agile warrior, not a lame stealth-backstab machine.

I agree that I hardly consider an archer someone who picks two bows too. But I certainly, didn’t expect the meta to be NO bow.

My point is that I always considered the ranger to have at least one bow and these days, that isn’t really the source of strength of the character. It is often much better to run your ranger with axe/sword and 2 off hand weapons.

Bombsaway.7198:

I agree that I hardly consider an archer someone who picks two bows too. But I certainly, didn’t expect the meta to be NO bow.

My point is that I always considered the ranger to have at least one bow and these days, that isn’t really the source of strength of the character. It is often much better to run your ranger with axe/sword and 2 off hand weapons.

I disagree, I wouldn’t consider axe a superior choice for ranged damage compared to bow. Bows have their time/place.

Besides, what specific circumstance are you talking about? SPVP? WVW? PVE? Dungeon runs? Speed runs? There are different builds that are viable and fun in each of those different game segments, and there are builds that are viable and fun for all of them except speed runs (if you like to stick to one build). Bow is an option in a lot of those builds, you just have to know when to use it and when not to.

I sure as hell picked the Ranger as my main because I love archers, and in GW1, the Ranger was THE archer, the only one with marksmanship. I made Kudzu, the legendary longbow, because I love bows. Anet apparently, does not love the idea of Ranger using bows effectively. In dungeons we get yelled at when we want to go ranged (poor design at work) and we have no way of reliably keeping our enemies at range in PvP and WvW. So yes, I carry that kittenty kitten sword around that I hate using, but feel forced to because it’s just so much more effective.

Anthony.7219:

Bombsaway.7198:

We are laughed at when we take two bows (and perhaps there is a bit of reason tied to DPS, certainly).

But how many rangers picked the class because it had bows?

In short, ANET has it where playing the class “as the player wanted to” results in others hating your playing the class. Talk about missed expectations.

Sure, some folks wanted a melee ranger but I am guessing the vast majority thought ranger-archer or ranger-pets and a few ranger-traps. In both cases, that would be ranger-worth less (not per se worthless). Fairly sure, the expectation wasn’t ranger-lots of eye candy spirits.

Now let’s talk pets. Ranger seems “woodsman” in the stereotype I brought to choosing the class. What are our best pets? Would you find them or a bear in the woods?

The whole class just feels odd like it shouldn’t even be called a ranger.
Can you have fun with it? Sure. Is it what you expected? I seriously doubt it.

Can we still have fun, I suppose. But ultimately, the ranger

I picked ranger to be an archer, but I hardly consider an archer someone who carries two bows. Historically, archers throw down their bows and pick up another weapon when the enemy gets too close for the bow to be effective. Since archers weren’t as rich as knights, they would be using cheaper weapons, not fancy swords, but I’d say this game is doing fairly well at portraying a true archer. Closer than most games at least.

Having a strong ranged weapon and a strong melee weapon can cover up a lot of weaknesses that other classes have to deal with.

If you like bows, pick one. I’d suggest determining whether you want conditions or power, shortbow for conditions, long for power. Then pick a melee weapon. And if you’re worried about stigma, pick any pet other than a bear.

And as for being told how to play, try figuring out talents in the guardian tree, or playing as a guardian when you like to think of yourself as a warrior, not a caster (good luck finding a ranged weapon). Or play as a thief who wants to be an agile warrior, not a lame stealth-backstab machine.

This was probably one of the most intelligent posts I have seen in a long time. I agree.

yeah….I’m a rebel. I don’t use bows at all. I don’t even use swords. I use Axe/Torch and Axe/Warhorn, and in my most recent build, I use traps and rampager gear w. Elementalist runes. Tell me how many people use that setup?

…Although I do agree. Both the bows need some work so they have a clearly defined role in combat, instead of being all over the place.

The Spiral King.2483:

I sure as hell picked the Ranger as my main because I love archers, and in GW1, the Ranger was THE archer, the only one with marksmanship. I made Kudzu, the legendary longbow, because I love bows. Anet apparently, does not love the idea of Ranger using bows effectively. In dungeons we get yelled at when we want to go ranged (poor design at work) and we have no way of reliably keeping our enemies at range in PvP and WvW. So yes, I carry that kittenty kitten sword around that I hate using, but feel forced to because it’s just so much more effective.

Muddy Terrain, Frost Trap, LR + LB with sigils of ice in it, good luck getting in Melee range of that ranger.

Add in a forest (or jungle? I forget which has the immob venom), and black widow if you never want them near you again

I think I am personally bound to how I envision the Ranger Woodsman, as stated previously. Anet seems to Want us to invest in our Pet (if only it were more consistent and not mimic the atrocious AI in the PvE environment)

That being said I chose to use a LB and Great Sword…I also chose to invest in my Birds because even if they only serve as a distraction that distraction equates to opportunity. The moment they let there guard down the Birds can hurt them significantly….

All this to say I have tried to the utmost to play the class the way I saw it in my minds eye….always a work in progress but despite its deficiencies when played to its strengths the class is highly competitive.

actualy my favorite weapon as ranger wasnt longbow but axe. I always wanted to actualy run a beast master so i ran axe warhorn and cat by preferance on a charr ranger(wouldve ran dual axe if offhand was any worthwhile) in the warcraft 3 beastmaster hero style but hey has to do with what you got. IN the end i got a somewhat very viable but not optimal build wich gets my stuff done the way i want them to be

kyubi.3620:

actualy my favorite weapon as ranger wasnt longbow but axe. I always wanted to actualy run a beast master so i ran axe warhorn and cat by preferance on a charr ranger(wouldve ran dual axe if offhand was any worthwhile) in the warcraft 3 beastmaster hero style but hey has to do with what you got. IN the end i got a somewhat very viable but not optimal build wich gets my stuff done the way i want them to be

I thought axe offhand was very useful as it gave anti projectile to a class that doesn’t have it, but more than decent damage.

well at that point i removed offhand axe for horn because of hunter calls somewhat 18 consecutive hits wich can cause a critical on each and fill the pet might bar like crazy. Post patch i still wonder what ill run.

kyubi.3620:

well at that point i removed offhand axe for horn because of hunter calls somewhat 18 consecutive hits wich can cause a critical on each and fill the pet might bar like crazy. Post patch i still wonder what ill run.

I like to have torch and horn offhand with 2 swords for the nice fire field and blast. However I find axe offhand much better for my survival in dungeons or in heavy projectile encounters. I like most of the off hands, personally,

I was a bow-type ranger, but I love the GS now.

I am a ranger who gets into the heat of the battle with his two trusty pets, Mighty (stalker) and Condi (bear). They are there only to -if the time calls for it- give some motivation (might) or a few seconds of protection (50k HP bear with Protect me! is very handy). I’m the ranger, who engages from afar with a deadly hail of arrows, then leaps into the combat while encouraging his fellows with shouts. I’m a ranger who has no honour. Tricks and traps are all acceptable to bring down a foe. It needs honour to decide who has to die. After this decision was made the honour is not important anymore.

I am a ranger who stalks the land and uses everything for his advantage and accepts no rules. Rules are to protect the weak. But in the forest there is only one rule!

“The weak loses, the punishment is: death!
The strong wins, the reward is: may fight again!”

If the nature follows only this rule so must the ranger too.

…

I use 10/0/30/30/0 with GS as main, and whatever I need as a second… axe+horn or longbow. I like this playstyle and I think it fits into the “ranger” category. I never get blamed because of my pet or my bow (bearbow…). Basically I am the first who gets into the combat and usually the last one who drops

I’m surprised the topic about “Rangers aren’t range-ers, its a misconception”, “Aragorn from LOTR is a ranger, but doesn’t use bow”, “Traditional D&D rangers blah blah blah” hasn’t sprung up. Anet’s already define their version of rangers as being as “unparalleled archers”, so we can leave it at that before people start spouting nonsense.

@Anthony.7219 Axe is much better than shortbow, unless, in certain circumstances, you only want to hit single targets.

@Chrispy.5641 People who run bows are the real rebels lol XD

But yeah, our bows suck.

kiwituatara.6053:

I’m surprised the topic about “Rangers aren’t range-ers, its a misconception”, “Aragorn from LOTR is a ranger, but doesn’t use bow”, “Traditional D&D rangers blah blah blah” hasn’t sprung up. Anet’s already define their version of rangers as being as “unparalleled archers”, so we can leave it at that before people start spouting nonsense.

@Anthony.7219 Axe is much better than shortbow, unless, in certain circumstances, you only want to hit single targets.

@Chrispy.5641 People who run bows are the real rebels lol XD

But yeah, our bows suck.

Uh huh… Throw about a hundred and fifty ifs and buts in there and you might be close.

If someone is beyond 1500 range running at me with minimal toughness I can do 12-14,000 damage without using point blank shot before they reach me, then switch to greatsword and hit for 4,500, block their attack, knock them back and hit for another 2,000.

But I should drop my bow and charge at them instead. That’s smar.

N 30 2, 10, 12
S 10 1
W 0
N 30 5, 9, 12
B

Stats: (using Valkyrie equipment)
(I’m not level 80, so this is math, but verified on sPVP)
Power 916 + (300 + 140) talents + 120 orbs in armor + 1002 equipment => 2468 power
Precision 916 + 100 talents => 1016 precision (crit rate is 11.62%)
Vitality 916 + 300 talents + 84 orbs in armor + 698 armor = 1998 => 19980 health
Toughness 916
Critical Damage => 1.5base + 0.1 talents + 0.12 orbs in armor + 0.62 equipment => 2.34

2h weapons are about 1000 damage, basic armor on a light opponent with no toughness bonuses is 920, + 916 toughness, so 1836.
Damage = WEAPON * POWER * COEF / DEFENSE * (1 – Crit Chance) +
WEAPON * POWER * COEF / DEFENSE * Crit Chance * Crit Damage

Battle sequence:
Long range shot (0.9 coef, guaranteed crit) => 2860
rapid fire (3.75 coef) => 5366
Barrage (4.8 coef) => 6898
Hunters Shot (0.4 coef, steah resets opening strike) => 509
Maul (1.5 coef, guaranteed crit) => 4469

I’m at 20,102 damage and I didn’t include the 5% bonus damage from traits to longbow and greatsword, so its actually going to be 21,107.

Still think bow is useless? And don’t give me some condition damage crap, a lot of players press one button and conditions disappear.

Anthony.7219:

kiwituatara.6053:

I’m surprised the topic about “Rangers aren’t range-ers, its a misconception”, “Aragorn from LOTR is a ranger, but doesn’t use bow”, “Traditional D&D rangers blah blah blah” hasn’t sprung up. Anet’s already define their version of rangers as being as “unparalleled archers”, so we can leave it at that before people start spouting nonsense.

@Anthony.7219 Axe is much better than shortbow, unless, in certain circumstances, you only want to hit single targets.

@Chrispy.5641 People who run bows are the real rebels lol XD

But yeah, our bows suck.

Uh huh… Throw about a hundred and fifty ifs and buts in there and you might be close.

If someone is beyond 1500 range running at me with minimal toughness I can do 12-14,000 damage without using point blank shot before they reach me, then switch to greatsword and hit for 4,500, block their attack, knock them back and hit for another 2,000.

But I should drop my bow and charge at them instead. That’s smar.

Yea, its not like I haven’t done it either. My zerker LB/GS ranger has 4100 attack and has 1 shotted lvl 80 guardians before (Screenshot isn’t the highest dmg I’ve done, but its all I have for now). If you’ve been using rapid shot, you’ve been doing it wrong- it actually has lower dps than autoattack. Nevertheless, it is my go-to-troll build and its far from viable. The only time you’ll pull of kills is when your opponent doesn’t expect the attack. Overall, zerker ranger is probably the glassiest zerker class out there and it only takes a few dodge rolls and a leap to easily take out the build.

cute…. can you do that much damage in spvp :/

kyubi.3620:

cute…. can you do that much damage in spvp :/

Yes, that’s where this is tested. Now, am I always in a position to use the bow, no, that’s why the build isn’t built around using the bow 100% of the time.

Er… you were talking to him, haha, that 10,000 sounds too high to me.

kiwituatara.6053:

Anthony.7219:

kiwituatara.6053:

I’m surprised the topic about “Rangers aren’t range-ers, its a misconception”, “Aragorn from LOTR is a ranger, but doesn’t use bow”, “Traditional D&D rangers blah blah blah” hasn’t sprung up. Anet’s already define their version of rangers as being as “unparalleled archers”, so we can leave it at that before people start spouting nonsense.

@Anthony.7219 Axe is much better than shortbow, unless, in certain circumstances, you only want to hit single targets.

@Chrispy.5641 People who run bows are the real rebels lol XD

But yeah, our bows suck.

Uh huh… Throw about a hundred and fifty ifs and buts in there and you might be close.

If someone is beyond 1500 range running at me with minimal toughness I can do 12-14,000 damage without using point blank shot before they reach me, then switch to greatsword and hit for 4,500, block their attack, knock them back and hit for another 2,000.

But I should drop my bow and charge at them instead. That’s smar.

Yea, its not like I haven’t done it either. My zerker LB/GS ranger has 4100 attack and has 1 shotted lvl 80 guardians before (Screenshot isn’t the highest dmg I’ve done, but its all I have for now). If you’ve been using rapid shot, you’ve been doing it wrong- it actually has lower dps than autoattack. Nevertheless, it is my go-to-troll build and its far from viable. The only time you’ll pull of kills is when your opponent doesn’t expect the attack. Overall, zerker ranger is probably the glassiest zerker class out there and it only takes a few dodge rolls and a leap to easily take out the build.

I never thought to look that up. You’re right on paper, 3.75/4.5s < 0.9/1s, I wonder if the 10 stacks of vuln make up for it.

Anthony.7219:

kiwituatara.6053:

Anthony.7219:

kiwituatara.6053:

I’m surprised the topic about “Rangers aren’t range-ers, its a misconception”, “Aragorn from LOTR is a ranger, but doesn’t use bow”, “Traditional D&D rangers blah blah blah” hasn’t sprung up. Anet’s already define their version of rangers as being as “unparalleled archers”, so we can leave it at that before people start spouting nonsense.

@Anthony.7219 Axe is much better than shortbow, unless, in certain circumstances, you only want to hit single targets.

@Chrispy.5641 People who run bows are the real rebels lol XD

But yeah, our bows suck.

Uh huh… Throw about a hundred and fifty ifs and buts in there and you might be close.

If someone is beyond 1500 range running at me with minimal toughness I can do 12-14,000 damage without using point blank shot before they reach me, then switch to greatsword and hit for 4,500, block their attack, knock them back and hit for another 2,000.

But I should drop my bow and charge at them instead. That’s smar.

Yea, its not like I haven’t done it either. My zerker LB/GS ranger has 4100 attack and has 1 shotted lvl 80 guardians before (Screenshot isn’t the highest dmg I’ve done, but its all I have for now). If you’ve been using rapid shot, you’ve been doing it wrong- it actually has lower dps than autoattack. Nevertheless, it is my go-to-troll build and its far from viable. The only time you’ll pull of kills is when your opponent doesn’t expect the attack. Overall, zerker ranger is probably the glassiest zerker class out there and it only takes a few dodge rolls and a leap to easily take out the build.

I never thought to look that up. You’re right on paper, 3.75/4.5s < 0.9/1s, I wonder if the 10 stacks of vuln make up for it.

Yea, especially if you’re using valkyrie you’ll need to abuse that first hit u dish out for the initial burst. Its all good fun, but not viable. Also spvp valk has different stats from pve/wvw valk.

And no, I don’t think 10 stacks of vuln make up for it. Everything looks good on paper for rangers, but maul follow up animation is so obvious and hilt bash roots you so you’ll be missing you’re hits quite frequently actually.

PS. I forgot, rapid fire>autoattack in mid-close range. But I still wouldnt use rapid fire close range coz the skill cancels if your target dodges left or right.

kiwituatara.6053:

Anthony.7219:

kiwituatara.6053:

Anthony.7219:

kiwituatara.6053:

I’m surprised the topic about “Rangers aren’t range-ers, its a misconception”, “Aragorn from LOTR is a ranger, but doesn’t use bow”, “Traditional D&D rangers blah blah blah” hasn’t sprung up. Anet’s already define their version of rangers as being as “unparalleled archers”, so we can leave it at that before people start spouting nonsense.

@Anthony.7219 Axe is much better than shortbow, unless, in certain circumstances, you only want to hit single targets.

@Chrispy.5641 People who run bows are the real rebels lol XD

But yeah, our bows suck.

Uh huh… Throw about a hundred and fifty ifs and buts in there and you might be close.

If someone is beyond 1500 range running at me with minimal toughness I can do 12-14,000 damage without using point blank shot before they reach me, then switch to greatsword and hit for 4,500, block their attack, knock them back and hit for another 2,000.

But I should drop my bow and charge at them instead. That’s smar.

Yea, its not like I haven’t done it either. My zerker LB/GS ranger has 4100 attack and has 1 shotted lvl 80 guardians before (Screenshot isn’t the highest dmg I’ve done, but its all I have for now). If you’ve been using rapid shot, you’ve been doing it wrong- it actually has lower dps than autoattack. Nevertheless, it is my go-to-troll build and its far from viable. The only time you’ll pull of kills is when your opponent doesn’t expect the attack. Overall, zerker ranger is probably the glassiest zerker class out there and it only takes a few dodge rolls and a leap to easily take out the build.

I never thought to look that up. You’re right on paper, 3.75/4.5s < 0.9/1s, I wonder if the 10 stacks of vuln make up for it.

Yea, especially if you’re using valkyrie you’ll need to abuse that first hit u dish out for the initial burst. Its all good fun, but not viable. Also spvp valk has different stats from pve/wvw valk.

And no, I don’t think 10 stacks of vuln make up for it. Everything looks good on paper for rangers, but maul follow up animation is so obvious and hilt bash roots you so you’ll be missing you’re hits quite frequently actually.

PS. I forgot, rapid fire>autoattack in mid-close range. But I still wouldnt use rapid fire close range coz the skill cancels if your target dodges left or right.

1)Valk is weaker in spvp as far as I know.
2)Did the math, you need to be at the equivilant of 0.9 coef / second to be the same as the auto attack. If you include the vuln that the attack creates and assume 0.01% more damage on each subsequent attack you get up to 3.92 instead of 3.75. You need to be at 4.05 to be the same as an auto attack.
3)I tried the “power sigil/maul” build and it was COMPLETE crap, this one is much more balanced… Its probably the best build I’ve played with on any of my 3 characters. Well… except my thief human hand grenade build, but I hate that one.

Anthony.7219:

kiwituatara.6053:

Anthony.7219:

kiwituatara.6053:

Anthony.7219:

kiwituatara.6053:

I’m surprised the topic about “Rangers aren’t range-ers, its a misconception”, “Aragorn from LOTR is a ranger, but doesn’t use bow”, “Traditional D&D rangers blah blah blah” hasn’t sprung up. Anet’s already define their version of rangers as being as “unparalleled archers”, so we can leave it at that before people start spouting nonsense.

@Anthony.7219 Axe is much better than shortbow, unless, in certain circumstances, you only want to hit single targets.

@Chrispy.5641 People who run bows are the real rebels lol XD

But yeah, our bows suck.

Uh huh… Throw about a hundred and fifty ifs and buts in there and you might be close.

If someone is beyond 1500 range running at me with minimal toughness I can do 12-14,000 damage without using point blank shot before they reach me, then switch to greatsword and hit for 4,500, block their attack, knock them back and hit for another 2,000.

But I should drop my bow and charge at them instead. That’s smar.

Yea, its not like I haven’t done it either. My zerker LB/GS ranger has 4100 attack and has 1 shotted lvl 80 guardians before (Screenshot isn’t the highest dmg I’ve done, but its all I have for now). If you’ve been using rapid shot, you’ve been doing it wrong- it actually has lower dps than autoattack. Nevertheless, it is my go-to-troll build and its far from viable. The only time you’ll pull of kills is when your opponent doesn’t expect the attack. Overall, zerker ranger is probably the glassiest zerker class out there and it only takes a few dodge rolls and a leap to easily take out the build.

I never thought to look that up. You’re right on paper, 3.75/4.5s < 0.9/1s, I wonder if the 10 stacks of vuln make up for it.

Yea, especially if you’re using valkyrie you’ll need to abuse that first hit u dish out for the initial burst. Its all good fun, but not viable. Also spvp valk has different stats from pve/wvw valk.

And no, I don’t think 10 stacks of vuln make up for it. Everything looks good on paper for rangers, but maul follow up animation is so obvious and hilt bash roots you so you’ll be missing you’re hits quite frequently actually.

PS. I forgot, rapid fire>autoattack in mid-close range. But I still wouldnt use rapid fire close range coz the skill cancels if your target dodges left or right.

1)Valk is weaker in spvp as far as I know.
2)Did the math, you need to be at the equivilant of 0.9 coef / second to be the same as the auto attack. If you include the vuln that the attack creates and assume 0.01% more damage on each subsequent attack you get up to 3.92 instead of 3.75. You need to be at 4.05 to be the same as an auto attack.
3)I tried the “power sigil/maul” build and it was COMPLETE crap, this one is much more balanced… Its probably the best build I’ve played with on any of my 3 characters. Well… except my thief human hand grenade build, but I hate that one.

Meh. I’m too lazy to do that kinda math. I just get my stopwatch out (might not be the most accurate way XD).

If you’re enjoying valk build spvp, try mine… (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Power-spvp-build/first#post3494917). Its an experimental build I’ve been running in spvp. Let me know what you think of it if you decide to run it.

PS. whoops my bad. You’ve already replied in that thread. I’ll type out the build

kiwituatara.6053:

Anthony.7219:

kiwituatara.6053:

Anthony.7219:

kiwituatara.6053:

Anthony.7219:

kiwituatara.6053:

I’m surprised the topic about “Rangers aren’t range-ers, its a misconception”, “Aragorn from LOTR is a ranger, but doesn’t use bow”, “Traditional D&D rangers blah blah blah” hasn’t sprung up. Anet’s already define their version of rangers as being as “unparalleled archers”, so we can leave it at that before people start spouting nonsense.

@Anthony.7219 Axe is much better than shortbow, unless, in certain circumstances, you only want to hit single targets.

@Chrispy.5641 People who run bows are the real rebels lol XD

But yeah, our bows suck.

Uh huh… Throw about a hundred and fifty ifs and buts in there and you might be close.

If someone is beyond 1500 range running at me with minimal toughness I can do 12-14,000 damage without using point blank shot before they reach me, then switch to greatsword and hit for 4,500, block their attack, knock them back and hit for another 2,000.

But I should drop my bow and charge at them instead. That’s smar.

Yea, its not like I haven’t done it either. My zerker LB/GS ranger has 4100 attack and has 1 shotted lvl 80 guardians before (Screenshot isn’t the highest dmg I’ve done, but its all I have for now). If you’ve been using rapid shot, you’ve been doing it wrong- it actually has lower dps than autoattack. Nevertheless, it is my go-to-troll build and its far from viable. The only time you’ll pull of kills is when your opponent doesn’t expect the attack. Overall, zerker ranger is probably the glassiest zerker class out there and it only takes a few dodge rolls and a leap to easily take out the build.

I never thought to look that up. You’re right on paper, 3.75/4.5s < 0.9/1s, I wonder if the 10 stacks of vuln make up for it.

Yea, especially if you’re using valkyrie you’ll need to abuse that first hit u dish out for the initial burst. Its all good fun, but not viable. Also spvp valk has different stats from pve/wvw valk.

And no, I don’t think 10 stacks of vuln make up for it. Everything looks good on paper for rangers, but maul follow up animation is so obvious and hilt bash roots you so you’ll be missing you’re hits quite frequently actually.

PS. I forgot, rapid fire>autoattack in mid-close range. But I still wouldnt use rapid fire close range coz the skill cancels if your target dodges left or right.

1)Valk is weaker in spvp as far as I know.
2)Did the math, you need to be at the equivilant of 0.9 coef / second to be the same as the auto attack. If you include the vuln that the attack creates and assume 0.01% more damage on each subsequent attack you get up to 3.92 instead of 3.75. You need to be at 4.05 to be the same as an auto attack.
3)I tried the “power sigil/maul” build and it was COMPLETE crap, this one is much more balanced… Its probably the best build I’ve played with on any of my 3 characters. Well… except my thief human hand grenade build, but I hate that one.

Meh. I’m too lazy to do that kinda math. I just get my stopwatch out (might not be the most accurate way XD).

If you’re enjoying valk build spvp, try mine… (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Power-spvp-build/first#post3494917). Its an experimental build I’ve been running in spvp. Let me know what you think of it if you decide to run it.

PS. whoops my bad. You’ve already replied in that thread. I’ll type out the build

Just gotta check it when I get home

And since I feel like doing the math for the first time ever, I checked guardian’s sword, same thing, zealot’s defense does less dps than auto attack. /eyeroll come on arenanet, does every class I play have to be the broken one? Expected response =>“Are you going to play warrior?”

I agree. Rangers should be good with bows.

Fext.3614:

I agree. Rangers should be good with bows.

We are good with bows, it’s just that melee does more damage, end of story, than ranged does.

Only way to make bows better is to make melee less viable in PvE (that’s not unviable, that just means make it so you can’t have 100% uptime in melee range no matter how amazing you are).

I did pick ranger because I usually favour ranged combat / bow, but I am not unhappy with our weapon selection generally. LB still need some love, and a few tweaks here and there, but I dont think our bows or weapons in general are a problem.

I think you just need to realise whenever you start a new game you cant come in and assume the class you picked will be exactly everything you want. Every game tries to break the mould, do something interesting or different, and with that comes the fact that not every stereotype will be played out exactly how you think it should be.

Something I learned a long time ago playing MMO. Never expect anything just stick to what you like there are enough people out there who have similiar mindsets to yours. And to a point be the best you are at what you do. If you like to be a Ranged Ranger using a bear, then do so, but don’t expect the vast world of MMO to accept you. I know my quirk is that I like heavy armored melee in any MMO. And I’ve stuck to them as my main in every game, I don’t swap them out when another class can tank/dps better than me, I just keep learning about them and hope someone will find their usefulness (or at least desperate enough) to take me on. At the end of the day as long as the task is complete and you’re enjoying yourself it really doesn’t matter what the DPS meter tells you.

Melee has better damage, but that doesn’t mean Ranger bows are weak or useless. Some may argue that warrior bows are better I don’t agree. The build my be better but that’s another story. Warrior have utilites that can stun allowing them to land that very dodge able aoe.

For Bow main weapon rangers to shine Anet doesn’t need to lower melee damage. What the need to do is have more mobs that require Range damage. There are already a lot of mob that encourage melee by mean of various mechanisms. There needs to be more Mechanisms that encourage range damage (Hard hitting melee mobs isn’t the only way).

In this game dps is king so players/classes that choose to dish out less damage while providing less support and receiving less support are shunned (Rightly so).

With that said there also need to be mechanism that discourages stacking (not for all encounters just some). Like mobs that attacks bounce (Like mh axes): each time the attack bounces the damage is multiplied. It may not stop stacking but it may encourage players to run something other than zerker ( of course referring to PVE dungeon).

I have an ascended LB, WH and soon will have a main-hand Axe too on my Ranger main. Yet when my son started playing the game, and picked a Ranger alt a week ago, I told him to learn how to use the GS and Sword+Axe off-hand. He’s probably better off for me telling him to toss that LB he picked up in the nearest fire…

axe/bows are very equal at the moment, in their level of blehness that is

Picked GW2 ranger because FOR ONCE I don’t have to play a ranger and have to use a bow.

But that said I think any weapon a class wields, especially in this game where skills are directly derived, should be equally viable in as much is possible. So of course there should be more balancing.

I also think that the ranged damage is more problematic on a global level than just for ranger. It seems pretty difficult to strike a good balance with melee given how things work with active defenses, buff ranges, etc. I’d say the damage suffers more from that than any faulty weapon design. For the classes where it actually produces good damage it seems to be mostly burstwise and not overall damage…

Aggrostemma.1703:

I was a bow-type ranger, but I love the GS now.

I am a ranger who gets into the heat of the battle with his two trusty pets, Mighty (stalker) and Condi (bear). They are there only to -if the time calls for it- give some motivation (might) or a few seconds of protection (50k HP bear with Protect me! is very handy). I’m the ranger, who engages from afar with a deadly hail of arrows, then leaps into the combat while encouraging his fellows with shouts. I’m a ranger who has no honour. Tricks and traps are all acceptable to bring down a foe. It needs honour to decide who has to die. After this decision was made the honour is not important anymore.

I am a ranger who stalks the land and uses everything for his advantage and accepts no rules. Rules are to protect the weak. But in the forest there is only one rule!

“The weak loses, the punishment is: death!
The strong wins, the reward is: may fight again!”

If the nature follows only this rule so must the ranger too.

…

I use 10/0/30/30/0 with GS as main, and whatever I need as a second… axe+horn or longbow. I like this playstyle and I think it fits into the “ranger” category. I never get blamed because of my pet or my bow (bearbow…). Basically I am the first who gets into the combat and usually the last one who drops

Yep. Ranger can tank like a guardian no problem. you will live longer too with protect me and (if you retrait a little) signet of stone. 12s of invulnerability is nice.

Chokolata.1870:

axe/bows are very equal at the moment, in their level of blehness that is

Just stay close to the enemy and your allies. The blehness will go away when you are spamming their fire, bleed, poison, healing, blindness, and condition removal all over the place. Bleh becomes pretty nifty with a few party boons as well. Just don’t go all in on berserker. Zerker trinkets mixed with enough celestial to keep you alive will do nicely for close ranger power dealing rangers.

KyreneZA.8617:

I have an ascended LB, WH and soon will have a main-hand Axe too on my Ranger main. Yet when my son started playing the game, and picked a Ranger alt a week ago, I told him to learn how to use the GS and Sword+Axe off-hand. He’s probably better off for me telling him to toss that LB he picked up in the nearest fire…

Power/Cond/Pet with swords and no crit dmg or precision is just as nice as the bow ranger who specialized in Power/Pre/Cond/Crit. and uses LB + Axe/Warhorn. The latter will deal a bit more damage while the former will deal nice damage and have much more survivability… And it feels good to bash things with the GS for sure

Archon.6480:

Aggrostemma.1703:

I was a bow-type ranger, but I love the GS now.

I am a ranger who gets into the heat of the battle with his two trusty pets, Mighty (stalker) and Condi (bear). They are there only to -if the time calls for it- give some motivation (might) or a few seconds of protection (50k HP bear with Protect me! is very handy). I’m the ranger, who engages from afar with a deadly hail of arrows, then leaps into the combat while encouraging his fellows with shouts. I’m a ranger who has no honour. Tricks and traps are all acceptable to bring down a foe. It needs honour to decide who has to die. After this decision was made the honour is not important anymore.

I am a ranger who stalks the land and uses everything for his advantage and accepts no rules. Rules are to protect the weak. But in the forest there is only one rule!

“The weak loses, the punishment is: death!
The strong wins, the reward is: may fight again!”

If the nature follows only this rule so must the ranger too.

…

I use 10/0/30/30/0 with GS as main, and whatever I need as a second… axe+horn or longbow. I like this playstyle and I think it fits into the “ranger” category. I never get blamed because of my pet or my bow (bearbow…). Basically I am the first who gets into the combat and usually the last one who drops

Yep. Ranger can tank like a guardian no problem. you will live longer too with protect me and (if you retrait a little) signet of stone. 12s of invulnerability is nice.

If you use the pig you also can get an Elixir of Heroes which gives you another 6s of invuln, or you could get a 2k heal or a mini healing spring (regen + condi removal + water field)

Um… bow builds are great atm
SB condi bunker is the current “meta” as far as I know (PvP OFC)

tattoohead.3217:

Um… bow builds are great atm
SB condi bunker is the current “meta” as far as I know (PvP OFC)

I think they’re talking more about it in pve. But yeah, sb in pvp I hear is good.

Sadly there is no tanking in this game, there is kill em supper fast so they do not kill us though

Chokolata.1870:

Sadly there is no tanking in this game, there is kill em supper fast so they do not kill us though

No, there IS tanking and there IS support, it’s just not meta atm, which Anet don’t like and as such they’re trying to bring support and tanky builds up and bring DPS down a little.

Durzlla.6295:

Chokolata.1870:

Sadly there is no tanking in this game, there is kill em supper fast so they do not kill us though

No, there IS tanking and there IS support, it’s just not meta atm, which Anet don’t like and as such they’re trying to bring support and tanky builds up and bring DPS down a little.

You can support with DPS builds just fine as long you get the idea out of your head that “Support” is only healing.

And there will never be true tanking without a real aggro system. The intricacies of the current one are largely unknown and dynamic to prevent a single person tanking for his team. If the the tank doesn’t hold aggro, then what is the point?

TurtleDragon.3108:

Durzlla.6295:

Chokolata.1870:

Sadly there is no tanking in this game, there is kill em supper fast so they do not kill us though

No, there IS tanking and there IS support, it’s just not meta atm, which Anet don’t like and as such they’re trying to bring support and tanky builds up and bring DPS down a little.

You can support with DPS builds just fine as long you get the idea out of your head that “Support” is only healing.

And there will never be true tanking without a real aggro system. The intricacies of the current one are largely unknown and dynamic to prevent a single person tanking for his team. If the the tank doesn’t hold aggro, then what is the point?

Support doesn’t mean healing, support has always, and will always mean buffing AND healing your allies and generally just making them able to stay in the fight longer as well as boosting their damage.

And you can tank kitten pretty easily in PvE, low health, high armor, or being a bear, tends to kitten off just about everything in the game and if you’re in, say clerics gear, you hit both those marks and have a ton of self healing allowing you to stay in there longer and kitten stuff off a lot. Also, just like in Gw1, hard CC tends to anger mobs (just like players) and if you spam that or are the only one using them you kitten things off and “peel” them from your allies. Granted this becomes harder to do if you’ve got 4 Melee zerkers there because once any of them gets hit by a stiff breeze they suddenly become target #1 to most AI.

Keep in mind, this is the GENERAL AI thought process, there are absolutely outliers, like the mages in the searing fractal, they don’t care about anything they shoot at everyone and don’t give a kitten about anything.

For PvE tanking think PvP tanking “how would I kitten a player off enough to focus me over a squishy?” Is generally what you wanna ask yourself…

Durzlla.6295:

TurtleDragon.3108:

Durzlla.6295:

Chokolata.1870:

Sadly there is no tanking in this game, there is kill em supper fast so they do not kill us though

No, there IS tanking and there IS support, it’s just not meta atm, which Anet don’t like and as such they’re trying to bring support and tanky builds up and bring DPS down a little.

You can support with DPS builds just fine as long you get the idea out of your head that “Support” is only healing.

And there will never be true tanking without a real aggro system. The intricacies of the current one are largely unknown and dynamic to prevent a single person tanking for his team. If the the tank doesn’t hold aggro, then what is the point?

Support doesn’t mean healing, support has always, and will always mean buffing AND healing your allies and generally just making them able to stay in the fight longer as well as boosting their damage.

And you can tank kitten pretty easily in PvE, low health, high armor, or being a bear, tends to kitten off just about everything in the game and if you’re in, say clerics gear, you hit both those marks and have a ton of self healing allowing you to stay in there longer and kitten stuff off a lot. Also, just like in Gw1, hard CC tends to anger mobs (just like players) and if you spam that or are the only one using them you kitten things off and “peel” them from your allies. Granted this becomes harder to do if you’ve got 4 Melee zerkers there because once any of them gets hit by a stiff breeze they suddenly become target #1 to most AI.

Keep in mind, this is the GENERAL AI thought process, there are absolutely outliers, like the mages in the searing fractal, they don’t care about anything they shoot at everyone and don’t give a kitten about anything.

For PvE tanking think PvP tanking “how would I kitten a player off enough to focus me over a squishy?” Is generally what you wanna ask yourself…

Well, i’d argue that debuffing your enemies should also count as support because of the important of active mitigation in this game. A thief or warrior spamming blinds/weakness to protect their team counts as support in my books.

I feel healing-based support builds should never be meta or good, because it defeats the purpose of removing the trinity in the first place. You can’t heal through one shot moves, which is what this game’s PvE is based off of.

Edit: Fixed double negative.

Actually, everyone builds dps and then brings some support:
-ranger takes spotter and spirit
-warrior takes FGJ and banner
-guardian takes blocks and reflects
-etc

But there is no dedicated support build though. You can try, but sadly zerking through content is easiest and most efficient

TurtleDragon.3108:

Durzlla.6295:

TurtleDragon.3108:

Durzlla.6295:

Chokolata.1870:

Sadly there is no tanking in this game, there is kill em supper fast so they do not kill us though

No, there IS tanking and there IS support, it’s just not meta atm, which Anet don’t like and as such they’re trying to bring support and tanky builds up and bring DPS down a little.

You can support with DPS builds just fine as long you get the idea out of your head that “Support” is only healing.

And there will never be true tanking without a real aggro system. The intricacies of the current one are largely unknown and dynamic to prevent a single person tanking for his team. If the the tank doesn’t hold aggro, then what is the point?

Support doesn’t mean healing, support has always, and will always mean buffing AND healing your allies and generally just making them able to stay in the fight longer as well as boosting their damage.

And you can tank kitten pretty easily in PvE, low health, high armor, or being a bear, tends to kitten off just about everything in the game and if you’re in, say clerics gear, you hit both those marks and have a ton of self healing allowing you to stay in there longer and kitten stuff off a lot. Also, just like in Gw1, hard CC tends to anger mobs (just like players) and if you spam that or are the only one using them you kitten things off and “peel” them from your allies. Granted this becomes harder to do if you’ve got 4 Melee zerkers there because once any of them gets hit by a stiff breeze they suddenly become target #1 to most AI.

Keep in mind, this is the GENERAL AI thought process, there are absolutely outliers, like the mages in the searing fractal, they don’t care about anything they shoot at everyone and don’t give a kitten about anything.

For PvE tanking think PvP tanking “how would I kitten a player off enough to focus me over a squishy?” Is generally what you wanna ask yourself…

Well, i’d argue that debuffing your enemies should also count as support because of the important of active mitigation in this game. A thief or warrior spamming blinds/weakness to protect their team counts as support in my books.

I feel healing-based support builds should never be meta or good, because it defeats the purpose of removing the trinity in the first place. You can’t heal through one shot moves, which is what this game’s PvE is based off of.

Edit: Fixed double negative.

Totally forgot to put “and debuffing” in my post lol, but yeah in most games I tend to play the “more aggressive” supports aka the ones who out up a ton of hots on allies and dots/debuffs on enemies, wish rangers had more weakness access… Might end up taking vipers nest if we get a poison field on that though!

I use a shortbow / longbow build. I made my own build and have tested it against others before. The shortbow being my main weapon as a condition ranger and the longbow is used as my opening weapon and finisher (stealth > KB > rapid fire; or just rapid fire). Yes, there are other weapons I could pair up with the shortbow for the condition build like an axe+torch combo but so far I’ve been far more effective in PVE/PVP using my current set up.

I was actually testing my build against zerker ranger builds and so far I’ve been able to kill them with ease. The only ones that give me trouble are spirit builds but I still win against them more than not.

Niko Stark.8932:

I use a shortbow / longbow build. I made my own build and have tested it against others before. The shortbow being my main weapon as a condition ranger and the longbow is used as my opening weapon and finisher (stealth > KB > rapid fire; or just rapid fire). Yes, there are other weapons I could pair up with the shortbow for the condition build like an axe+torch combo but so far I’ve been far more effective in PVE/PVP using my current set up.

I was actually testing my build against zerker ranger builds and so far I’ve been able to kill them with ease. The only ones that give me trouble are spirit builds but I still win against them more than not.

Condi bunker rangers are stronger in 1v1s than spirit rangers and trappers are stronger still, if you can beat those on a regular occasion than it’s a good build, but if you’re struggling vs one of our weaker 1v1 builds then it’s likely fairly flawed….

Also, zerker ranger is a little more difficult to play than our other builds (not saying it awards much more) so unless they’re a REALLY good zerker ranger saying you beat a zerker ranger says little more than “I beat some zerker warrior in Hotjoin”

Anthony.7219:

Bombsaway.7198:

We are laughed at when we take two bows (and perhaps there is a bit of reason tied to DPS, certainly).

But how many rangers picked the class because it had bows?

In short, ANET has it where playing the class “as the player wanted to” results in others hating your playing the class. Talk about missed expectations.

Sure, some folks wanted a melee ranger but I am guessing the vast majority thought ranger-archer or ranger-pets and a few ranger-traps. In both cases, that would be ranger-worth less (not per se worthless). Fairly sure, the expectation wasn’t ranger-lots of eye candy spirits.

Now let’s talk pets. Ranger seems “woodsman” in the stereotype I brought to choosing the class. What are our best pets? Would you find them or a bear in the woods?

The whole class just feels odd like it shouldn’t even be called a ranger.
Can you have fun with it? Sure. Is it what you expected? I seriously doubt it.

Can we still have fun, I suppose. But ultimately, the ranger

I picked ranger to be an archer, but I hardly consider an archer someone who carries two bows. Historically, archers throw down their bows and pick up another weapon when the enemy gets too close for the bow to be effective. Since archers weren’t as rich as knights, they would be using cheaper weapons, not fancy swords, but I’d say this game is doing fairly well at portraying a true archer. Closer than most games at least.

Having a strong ranged weapon and a strong melee weapon can cover up a lot of weaknesses that other classes have to deal with.

If you like bows, pick one. I’d suggest determining whether you want conditions or power, shortbow for conditions, long for power. Then pick a melee weapon. And if you’re worried about stigma, pick any pet other than a bear.

And as for being told how to play, try figuring out talents in the guardian tree, or playing as a guardian when you like to think of yourself as a warrior, not a caster (good luck finding a ranged weapon). Or play as a thief who wants to be an agile warrior, not a lame stealth-backstab machine.

Historically, Thieves were stealing apples on the market square or worked in goverment. Historically, knights in full heavy, plated armor were like turtle turned on shell whenever they lost their horse and if they were able to.move in armoe by themselves, disabled on the wheelchair would outrange them in matter of second.

If I want to play a history-based game, I play Age of Empires, Total War, War of the Roses, Chivalry.

The problem is, this game is a “MMO” and in this type of game, in this theme, someone with a bow/gun/crossbow is a must. Urgently