Guild Wars 2

I have been playing the ranger for sometime and leveled mine up to 80. I can’t help but notice and a bit annoyed by the fact that the F1, F3, and toggle skills are seriously redundant. The pet is a serious pain to use effectively as it is but I especially hate how it is made so it wastes not 1 not 2 but 3 button spots for extremely redundant skills that can all be replaced by just 1 toggle. (I personally despise the pet and wish that the Devs would just scrap this aching headache into the depths of hell in favor of a different profession mechanic but I highly doubt they will ever redesign a game mechanic just for one single profession at this point in time so I’ll just have to work with what I’ve got)

Before I propose my ideas on how to fix the problem, allow me to expand on how exactly the F1, F3, and toggle are redundant. The problem all revolves around the toggle. It can’t be hotkey’d so you have to click it with your mouse in order to use it. So if your toggled as aggressive mode then F1 is completely useless since your pet will now attack anything that you’re attacking or is attacking you. If the toggle is set to passive though, then F3 is useless since… well… your pet isn’t going anywhere when you’re in passive. That’s a no-brainer. The whole design is just so repetitive, useless, and just plain awful.

Here’s my idea on how to improve it. F1, F3, and the toggle should all be fused into a single toggle that is hotkey’d onto F1. Toggle to aggressive to make your pet attack as you attack or attack when you’re being attacked. Toggle to passive if you want you’re pet to return to you if they are far away or simply to make them avoid combat and stay close. The funny thing is that you don’t need any special programming to make this happen. You just need to throw F1 and F3 into the furnace and make the toggle the new F1. I mean… the toggle already does everything I explained already. The problem is that F1 and F3 buttons are occupied by useless pieces of trash. I really believe a single toggle on F1 is all you need to handle these functions and I don’t see how it could not.

Now think for a second! If F1 and F3 is replaced by a toggle on F1, then that leaves the F3 button free. This would open up a button that may give you better control over your pet which would potentially make the pet less of a headache to use. And maybe, if we’re lucky, we can have a second pet skill at our disposal which would be HUGE. I’m okay with a new command button to better control my pet but if we really get a second pet skill then that would really redeem the pet just a bit for me.

Feel free to express any ideas or criticisms.

Pets are not a headache to use when you learn how to use them right. Now what good are the keys for:

F1: Attack a certain target. Sometimes, I want the pet attack something else than I’m aiming for. If there’s five mobs, and I want the pet to take care of the veteran while I rez my partner, that’s what you want to use F1 for. General “be agressive now” leaves the pet uncontrollable and is a step in a horrible direction.

F2: Special attack. You probably know how to use that.

F3: Return to me. Different from passive (now that it actually WORKS, which admittedly, it didn’t for a long time.) Very useful for just calling off your pet from a certain mob (not calling it onto a different one), but leaving it active, so it can attack again. Useful when you just want to leave it something particular alone, or call it off from battle (which you do need to do on occassion).

Passivity: Even passive-set pets can attack. They won’t seek fight themselves and won’t actively protect you, but can be ordered to attack, in which case, they will attack ONE target and come back. Which is a crucial skill in certain dungeons (some Fractals) and world bosses. Evolved Jungle Wurm is crucial with pet set on passive to avoid Husks, but you need to quickly order it around with F1 and F3 to send it to veteran wurms to help you fight.

The only truly obsolete and useless thing is the unmappable “Stow pet” option. It comes back automatically when you take damage, so the only use is on jumping puzzles, where fall damage counts as well. But there’s no “free” button slot to place it, anyway.

All in all, what you’re suggesting isn’t improving the pet, it’s turning it into a loose canon, which is frankly what most rangers have the pet to be and that’s why lots of players kick rangers out of dungeons without asking.

If you don’t want to use a pet and dislike it as strong as your post implies, I suggest you play a warrior. Or any other class that suits you better. Because pet (and its proper handling, which is what the F1 and F3 keys are made for) is a mechanic that’s as crucial to the ranger as elemental atunements are to elementalists or gear packs for the engineer. Without a pet, you’re just undereuqipped thief. Or warrior with severe lack of armor. So it might be better to play those to avoid the hassle. So if ANet really stripped that away… well, no reason to keep the class around when there are way better ones to suit those needs, right?

To make it easier to say, I’m gonna call my idea F1toggle.

I do not disagree with you, Changer. You make valid points on how to correctly use those buttons. But the F1toggle can do the same with a bit of programming. F1toggle will not have a CD and will be used instantly. If you want you’re pet to attack and retreat, double tap from passive-aggressive-passive. With a bit of programming you can also get it to attack a specific target. Select a target that you want your pet to attack with F1toggle and go from aggressive-passive-aggressive if your pet is currently attacking something else or simply passive-aggressive if your pet is in passive and unoccupied. Sure it will get some getting used to but all you’re doing is simply double tapping or just a single tap in order to control your pet. With the added advantage of having an attack, retreat, and toggle button on just 1 key.

Changer the Elder.2948:

If you don’t want to use a pet and dislike it as strong as your post implies, I suggest you play a warrior. Or any other class that suits you better. Because pet (and its proper handling, which is what the F1 and F3 keys are made for) is a mechanic that’s as crucial to the ranger as elemental atunements are to elementalists or gear packs for the engineer. Without a pet, you’re just undereuqipped thief. Or warrior with severe lack of armor. So it might be better to play those to avoid the hassle. So if ANet really stripped that away… well, no reason to keep the class around when there are way better ones to suit those needs, right?

I’m actually kind of hurt at this part, everything you said above makes sense and are worth considering. But I should tell you that I play all professions and have made all of them level 80. In most games I play, I like sneaky classes/professions with either a sniper feel or a dual sword wielding kitten. So naturally the ranger is my fave pick right after the thief. But when I started playing the ranger, the pet just made everything so awful. I feel like a way more awesome sniper as a warrior and the warrior isn’t exactly the sneaky type that I like so much.

But how would the game tell if you want just to toggle to passive altogether, or if you want to just recall it from ONE target? Also, what if I want to simply recall it to my target but NOT attack the target I’m currently attacking (which doesn’t necessarily have to be the one the pet is at).

It’s a lot of useless hassle that would only make the ranger harder to play. It’s not just “one more button press”, I’d live with that, silly as that would have been, but in a hassle of players, it’s tough to keep track of your pet even if you KNOW what you ordered it to do. I can’t imagine the mess if the ranger only had a vague idea what the pet is supposed to be doing (“Did that second tap register? Is it now passive? Is it now active? Is it now attacking/passive, so will it return to me when it’s done with that one target?”). Rangers are now considered by many to be the toughest class not just because that pet micromanagement (which is necessary for good play), but because their jack-of-all-trades build, which can easily turn them into master of none. Adding more confusion to the pile will render them too obfuscating to play for many.

Right now, the button system is easy, reliable and you know what you pressed. Since the recall button started working some half a year ago, most fights that required me to creatively swap to stop damaging my allies are now a breeze.

And it’s not like the pets need that extra button you’re so eager to free up. What for? Second attack is useless, swapping is already mapped, stowing is useless in and of itself and doesn’t need to be mapped and the only useful feature (active/passive) would be merged into the F1 skill. So why render the button useless? Do people have some sort of a scorn against their F3 keys or something?

By the way, commands “Attack my target” “Return” and “Set to passive/active” don’t have a cooldown now, either.

Novomundum.8325:

Changer the Elder.2948:

If you don’t want to use a pet and dislike it as strong as your post implies, I suggest you play a warrior. Or any other class that suits you better. Because pet (and its proper handling, which is what the F1 and F3 keys are made for) is a mechanic that’s as crucial to the ranger as elemental atunements are to elementalists or gear packs for the engineer. Without a pet, you’re just undereuqipped thief. Or warrior with severe lack of armor. So it might be better to play those to avoid the hassle. So if ANet really stripped that away… well, no reason to keep the class around when there are way better ones to suit those needs, right?

I’m actually kind of hurt at this part, everything you said above makes sense and are worth considering. But I should tell you that I play all professions and have made all of them level 80. In most games I play, I like sneaky classes/professions with either a sniper feel or a dual sword wielding kitten. So naturally the ranger is my fave pick right after the thief. But when I started playing the ranger, the pet just made everything so awful. I feel like a way more awesome sniper as a warrior and the warrior isn’t exactly the sneaky type that I like so much.

Then keep your pet passive if you don’t use that, easy as that, but you’re robbing yourself of 20% of your damage, if not more. If you just need a character in medium armor to keep you happy (warriors have some solid designs for sneaky approach, too – my warrior’s a lean-built Ash legion scout, after all), play a thief instead, they use a short bow or dual blades as well.

Rangers are excellent snipers due to their pets. Sending in your pet and sniping from 1500 range is what no other class can do, because pets are exactly there to agro damage and mop whatever would otherwise counter your sniping by coming to bite your face off.

I’m not saying “You obviously suck at this, go play something you suck less at”, not at all. All I’m saying is, if having a pet (core mechanic of the class) and having to rely on it doesn’t suit you and you dislike it (which your post says), go play something you don’t dislike from its core existence alone. It’s like complaining you hate candy for lunch but going shopping to candy store, anyway.

The game would know if you want your pet to stay passive or aggressive because you would leave it in the mode you want. The current system is still a mess when it comes to keeping track of your pet when there are multiple targets anyways. So why is it a problem that it’s hard to keep track of your pet with F1toggle when the current system faces the same problem? The problems you’ve stated with F1toggle still exists with the current system and it isn’t that it needs more work on the AI. The truth of the matter is that controls will grow gradually more and more chaotic and hard to use when the number of targets rise. At least with F1toggle allows you stop your pet from headbutting into the approaching zerg without having to constantly press F3 or scroll your mouse over to click the toggle.

At this point, I do disagree with you. The current system is not easy and reliable. Far from it.

Changer the Elder.2948:

I’m not saying “You obviously suck at this, go play something you suck less at”, not at all. All I’m saying is, if having a pet (core mechanic of the class) and having to rely on it doesn’t suit you and you dislike it (which your post says), go play something you don’t dislike from its core existence alone. It’s like complaining you hate candy for lunch but going shopping to candy store, anyway.

I had high hopes for the pet. I came in fully expecting I’ll play a awesome sniper with a trustworthy company by my side. But AIs simply don’t work. It just don’t. Not because it’s bad but because AIs can’t read minds. Not even in a million years will they make an AI that will cooperate with you in perfect rhythm. Necromancers, engineers, and mesmers all suffer from this. Necromancers suffer the most because unlike the latter two, minion masters require their minions to be alive at all costs. Mesmers illusions tend to be used as expendable decoys and sacrifices that can be easily and freely replaced as long as you’re not outnumbered. The only problem they have is when they are built around phantasms and need to keep them alive to deal damage. Engineers may need to to keep their turrets alive for a bit but generally they fare better because the turrets are designed to be easily taken out and placed back in if time allows it. But Necromancers and Rangers fare far worse cause their minions/pets need to be kept alive at all costs. Because of all this I lost hope for any good AIs. So I just hate the pet cause it’s what made rangers so hard to play. I wished that the minions and pets worked more like the mesmers’ illusion. Sure they still suffer from faulty AIs but because the illusions are destroyed and replaced so quickly most of the time it doesn’t matter.

Ahem, not really. Case scenario:

I want to recall my pet while I keep battling gravelings. I shoot the veteran, recall pet with F3 so it comes back and starts killing off whatever is nibbling at my shoes. OR I can use F1 to simply recall it to another veteran that just emerged. How would the game know whether I want to recall it to my side to nibble on the gravelings or retarget it on the other veteran? What if I’m spunky enough to take both of them? Or what if I want to switch to a greatsword to mop with the gravelings and simply retarget the pet to the veterans WITHOUT calling it off? All but one ways I can think of with the one button instead of two reliable ones make the scenario a hot mess.

Unlike CPR, current system is Clean, Pretty, Reliable. Not saying it couldn’t be cleaner, prettier and reliablier (yes, I did that on purpose), but mapping two different functions you want to use under two different circumstances (or even three or four, depends on how creative can you get with them) to one button which would have to guess which of the circumstances are you using it on only makes it a game design failure.

Novomundum.8325:

I had high hopes for the pet. I came in fully expecting I’ll play a awesome sniper with a trustworthy company by my side. But AIs simply don’t work. It just don’t. Not because it’s bad but because AIs can’t read minds.

YES. So you need maximum control. Giving one button to where two (three?) were previously employed gives you one more thing to AI to decide instead of you. Contradictions, contradictions!

Yes we do seriously need more control over our pets, changer. But I still think that the our current toggle is just a repeat of the F1 and F3. I would like better control over my pet and I actually want the toggle to be hotkey’d. How about this?

F1: attack my target
F2: pet skill
F3: the toggle

I really don’t see how return and passive are different. They both basically calls your pet back. Only difference is return is like a boomerang when set to aggressive and useless when set to passive. Set toggle to aggressive and it will continuously attack its target and you can select its target using F1. Set toggle to passive and it will stay by your side and do a boomerang to your target and back when you use F1. Set toggle from aggressive to passive for it to return and stay by your side to attack the pests on your shoes but it is still locked onto its original target and will return to it once you’ve toggled back to aggressive unless you use F1 on another target.

You may want to check my old CDI thread. I guess you will find your solution there.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Symbiosis-The-Ranger-and-the-CDI

You can’t do what the OP wants. How would you tell your pet which target to attack if you’re being attacked by multiple targets? Simply setting it to aggressive so it attacks your current target or passive to come back isn’t enough control. What if you pull 2 mobs and you want to attack one and have your pet attack a second? What if after 3 seconds of this, you need your pet to switch targets because you were CC’d or you need to CC the one your pet is on?

The aggressive/passive option is there to allow players easier access to the pet. In all reality, once you’re comfortable using the attack and recall commands, your pet should always be on passive and you should be manually controlling it.

Now that all said, F1 and F3 are both redundant and can be easily mapped on a single key and I’ve suggested as much in numerous threads over the past 1.5 years. I even made zHunter in WoW to do the same thing.

F1: Tell your pet to attack the current target. If it’s already attacking that target, return to the Ranger’s side. If it’s not already attacking that target, switch to that target and attack.

That’s how the attack/recall function should be mapped.

I just popped in to point out that the stow pet toggle is MANDATORY for the electric stairs in the Uncategorized Fractal. If one of those bars hits your pet it kills YOU instead.

Rym.1469:

You may want to check my old CDI thread. I guess you will find your solution there.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Symbiosis-The-Ranger-and-the-CDI

Groud-targeting! I would never have though of that! That would definitely make it easier to use the pet.

mtpelion.4562:

I just popped in to point out that the stow pet toggle is MANDATORY for the electric stairs in the Uncategorized Fractal. If one of those bars hits your pet it kills YOU instead.

That’s mandatory because of bad design, they could very easily make it not hit your pet at all like they did in the new Aether Retreate fractal boss fight (laser beams used to hit your pet and butcher them, now the pet is 100% unphased by them).

And Changer stated everything i wanted to state already, i can’t agree with his comments more fully than i already do. I utilize the Guard/Passive swapping in actual PvP situations depending on the professions/builds i’m fighting as well as the specific scenario, ontop of utilize the F1 and F3 to get my pet around the battle field as i need him. All you’re suggesting OP is to butcher the amount of control we have over our pet for a “simplified” system (i use the quotes because it’d be more of a headache).

mtpelion.4562:

I just popped in to point out that the stow pet toggle is MANDATORY for the electric stairs in the Uncategorized Fractal. If one of those bars hits your pet it kills YOU instead.

Sadly, the Stow Pet control is not a true toggle. Try stowing your pet, then jump off a medium-height cliff – high enough that you take a tiny bit of damage, typical in many jumping puzzles. You will find that your pet insta-spawns by your side the second you take 1 HP of damage, sometimes even in mid jump if you are chain-jumping, even though you didn’t unstow it. This can be a major FAIL in some JPs where your pet reappears, unbidden, at just the wrong moment, causing you to miss the next jump or whatever. Anet needs to fix this control so it is a true user-controlled toggle with no involuntary respawns.

Also, the F1, F2 and F3 controls are fine “as-is” and necessary in my opinion and experience (I have not one but TWO level 80 Rangers). Only the Stow Pet control needs to be fixed.

I must respectfully disagree with the OP that Ranger pets should be abolished- they are poorly-handled by the game in some cases, yes, but they are THE core mechanic of the Ranger profession. As several have pointed out, they are essential to several valid Ranger playstyles, including the “Pet Tank while I Snipe” playstyle, although Anet has made some recent changes to target damage eligibility- making them “Invulnerable,” “Out of Range” or “Obstructed” when they are clearly in range, not obstructed and should not be invulnerable…. unless you jump down to their level, which immediately renders them damageable but, shamefully, invalidates the Sniper playstyle. Any ranged weapon, including but not limited to Ranger bows, should be valid for use in world PvE and dungeons as long as the target is within range and not actually obstructed. Anet has removed quite a bit of the fun of traiting Eagle Eye (1500 Range) by preventing Rangers from actually using that range unless we are on the same level as the target.

The biggest problem with pets other than the Stow-not control (as I posted in another thread and it was just moved to this thread) is the way the game handles pet names or, more accurately, named pet slots since replacing a named pet results in the new pet having the old pet’s name, showing that only the two pet SLOTS are actually named, not the pets themselves. Pet naming needs to be overhauled so that pet names are pet-specific, not slot-specific, and the names of all owned pets, slotted or not, are persistent… meaning that the game should “remember” all pet names.

Just gonna point this out, but if you have any “on pet swap” traits starting the fight with your pet stowed is an advantage since the second you shoot or take damage your pet is “swapped” into combat and you gain the procs without the CD on pet swap.

Durzlla.6295:

Just gonna point this out, but if you have any “on pet swap” traits starting the fight with your pet stowed is an advantage since the second you shoot or take damage your pet is “swapped” into combat and you gain the procs without the CD on pet swap.

Yes, and because this behavior might be desirable at times and unwanted at other times, it should be a toggle in options- we should be able to check or uncheck “Unstow Pet on Player Damage or Attack.”

My whole point is simply that “Stow Pet” should do exactly that and not spontaneously add the caveat “until I take damage or attack something.” That choice should be player-controllable.

Lolyta.4582:

Durzlla.6295:

Just gonna point this out, but if you have any “on pet swap” traits starting the fight with your pet stowed is an advantage since the second you shoot or take damage your pet is “swapped” into combat and you gain the procs without the CD on pet swap.

Yes, and because this behavior might be desirable at times and unwanted at other times, it should be a toggle in options- we should be able to check or uncheck “Unstow Pet on Player Damage or Attack.”

My whole point is simply that “Stow Pet” should do exactly that and not spontaneously add the caveat “until I take damage or attack something.” That choice should be player-controllable.

The reason it’s not is to prevent people from utterly gimping themselves by trying to force the pet profession into not using the pet, it’d be like playing a mesmer and not using clones or phantasms, AKA it wouldn’t work and would just under perform big time.

Since noone bothers to check the link, I’ll just quote it and end this thread.

Rym.1469:

" F1 key:
-Pressed once, sends pet to attack foe
-Pressed again on the same foe or without target, calls pet back
-Pressed and held, allows ground-targeted relocation of the pet, making it move to certain location upon releasing the F1 key. Pet will stay on targeted position and continue to attack/avoid combat until you:
a)press and hold F1 button again or
b)tap F1 twice quickly
With these actions, pet resets it’s location and returns to you.

F2 key:
-Bound with Symbiosis mechanic
-Defined by specific pet’s abilities
-Customizable out of combat: Each pet has two characteristic Symbiosis special abilities which you may choose same like Character’s utilities

F3 key:
-“Racial” Pet abilities, shared between each pet of same type (Drakes, Birds etc.). Accompanied with Cooldown, non-customizable

F4 key
-Press once to switch between two avalible pets
-Pet swap cooldown in combat (current)
-Press and hold to start reviving pet and make it possible so for allies. Channeled. Requires being stationary by default. Doesn’t swap the pet upon releasing the key, putting swap on short (1 sec ICD) cooldown to prevent missclicking.

Stances unchanged.

Novomundum.8325:

Not even in a million years will they make an AI that will cooperate with you in perfect rhythm.

Explains how much you know about programming.

Rym.1469:

Since noone bothers to check the link, I’ll just quote it and end this thread.

Rym.1469:

" F1 key:
-Pressed once, sends pet to attack foe
-Pressed again on the same foe or without target, calls pet back
-Pressed and held, allows ground-targeted relocation of the pet, making it move to certain location upon releasing the F1 key. Pet will stay on targeted position and continue to attack/avoid combat until you:
a)press and hold F1 button again or
b)tap F1 twice quickly
With these actions, pet resets it’s location and returns to you.

F2 key:
-Bound with Symbiosis mechanic
-Defined by specific pet’s abilities
-Customizable out of combat: Each pet has two characteristic Symbiosis special abilities which you may choose same like Character’s utilities

F3 key:
-“Racial” Pet abilities, shared between each pet of same type (Drakes, Birds etc.). Accompanied with Cooldown, non-customizable

F4 key
-Press once to switch between two avalible pets
-Pet swap cooldown in combat (current)
-Press and hold to start reviving pet and make it possible so for allies. Channeled. Requires being stationary by default. Doesn’t swap the pet upon releasing the key, putting swap on short (1 sec ICD) cooldown to prevent missclicking.

Stances unchanged.

It seems highly complicated, and i’d need to play with it to be able to say whether or not i like or dislike it.

That being said, it sounds a lot better than OPs and it also sounds like there’s still the passive/defensive stances.

Also, is the Symbiosis idea covered in the thread?

Durzlla.6295:

Rym.1469:

Since noone bothers to check the link, I’ll just quote it and end this thread.

Rym.1469:

" F1 key:
-Pressed once, sends pet to attack foe
-Pressed again on the same foe or without target, calls pet back
-Pressed and held, allows ground-targeted relocation of the pet, making it move to certain location upon releasing the F1 key. Pet will stay on targeted position and continue to attack/avoid combat until you:
a)press and hold F1 button again or
b)tap F1 twice quickly
With these actions, pet resets it’s location and returns to you.

F2 key:
-Bound with Symbiosis mechanic
-Defined by specific pet’s abilities
-Customizable out of combat: Each pet has two characteristic Symbiosis special abilities which you may choose same like Character’s utilities

F3 key:
-“Racial” Pet abilities, shared between each pet of same type (Drakes, Birds etc.). Accompanied with Cooldown, non-customizable

F4 key
-Press once to switch between two avalible pets
-Pet swap cooldown in combat (current)
-Press and hold to start reviving pet and make it possible so for allies. Channeled. Requires being stationary by default. Doesn’t swap the pet upon releasing the key, putting swap on short (1 sec ICD) cooldown to prevent missclicking.

Stances unchanged.

It seems highly complicated, and i’d need to play with it to be able to say whether or not i like or dislike it.

That being said, it sounds a lot better than OPs and it also sounds like there’s still the passive/defensive stances.

Also, is the Symbiosis idea covered in the thread?

Rym.1469:

You may want to check my old CDI thread. I guess you will find your solution there.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Symbiosis-The-Ranger-and-the-CDI

As I said, my thinking is that bounding all pet movement under just one key would really clean up the UI and make pet management a lot more intuitive.

I and many players I know from WoW and other games with pet-classes used similar keybinds – all pet non-ability movement under one key. The difference being that holding the key wasn’t possible there, but it IS in this game makes it even more logical to use mechanic and bring pet movement micromanagement to next level. It also applies to pet changing/defensive actions of micromanagement, included under one, F4 key, also allowing your allies to support your pet when not making it tricky or griefy.

Clicking, holding is quite fun to play with and very easy to memorise. It’s actually the same thing in mobile devices – many actions under different ways of just pushing the screen.