Guild Wars 2

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

I think all of those that are supporting the reduction in pet damage are forgetting one simple fact: pets had a really hard time making hits land on mobile targets.

It’s hilarious how little people move in any kind of pvp combat. Folks seem to think they can stack on kittenloads of Vitality and Toughness and that they should become brick house gods of tanking, cry like children when it doesn’t work and then Anet does something like nerf damage on a class that was near the butt end of the bus to begin with.

Aeri.5738:

And I am dead serious.

1) BM rangers where OP, end of story. I specked BM for fun and facerolled 1 v 3 in WvW, without actually knowing what I am doing.
The nerf on Pets was needed, they were just too strong.
The Jaguars base damage wasn’T even reduced, just his F2 got a nerf and I can live with that!

2) Other Non-Pet focused builds got buffed with offhand Axe and LB damage increase
The spirit tree buffs offer some great choices for GS Warriors with Frost Spirit support (believe it or not, this build already was strong in sPVP)
Offhand Axe buff is just awesome, I was running Sw/Axe already and now I can rock even more – thanks ANet!
The Longbow buff was needed and we will see how much damage increase there will actually be. I expect not too much but still a noticable improvement.

3) SB nerf. The only thing I don’t get, but since everybody was running shortbow (if not BM specced) I can understand it somehow.

4)Trait Changes
Imho very good stuff. Some more tweeking for Signet Ranger required, but it got a lot better.
Healing on Shouts sounds fun, I will defenetly try this out.
This could become one of the best Bunker builds GW2 has seen.

TL;DR: Am I seriously the only one who thinks, the (leaked) Patch notes are a good thing for us? ANet offered 2-3 more viable builds with this by slightly nerfing the BM Bunker.

Thanks ANet!

thief 1 v zerg any build you name it in wvw
dd ele 1 v zerg if you got quick keyboard skills
condition eng 1 v ANY 1 or 2 in wvw
….

All above are fine but when BM ranger can 1 v 3 noobs in wvw, oh, big problem, lets nerf it.

Get real man, I bet none of those 3 have immobilize on them and none of them are real burst dmg build aren’t they?

Before bashing the only viable build ranger has, now play against someone who knows how to deal with BM ranger first?

It just seems so crazy to nerf an AI controlled, unreliable and inconsistent source of damage that can be kited or killed SO easily.

I’m so mad right now.

Aeri.5738:

And I am dead serious.

1) BM rangers where OP, end of story. I specked BM for fun and facerolled 1 v 3 in WvW, without actually knowing what I am doing.
The nerf on Pets was needed, they were just too strong.
The Jaguars base damage wasn’T even reduced, just his F2 got a nerf and I can live with that!

2) Other Non-Pet focused builds got buffed with offhand Axe and LB damage increase
The spirit tree buffs offer some great choices for GS Warriors with Frost Spirit support (believe it or not, this build already was strong in sPVP)
Offhand Axe buff is just awesome, I was running Sw/Axe already and now I can rock even more – thanks ANet!
The Longbow buff was needed and we will see how much damage increase there will actually be. I expect not too much but still a noticable improvement.

3) SB nerf. The only thing I don’t get, but since everybody was running shortbow (if not BM specced) I can understand it somehow.

4)Trait Changes
Imho very good stuff. Some more tweeking for Signet Ranger required, but it got a lot better.
Healing on Shouts sounds fun, I will defenetly try this out.
This could become one of the best Bunker builds GW2 has seen.

TL;DR: Am I seriously the only one who thinks, the (leaked) Patch notes are a good thing for us? ANet offered 2-3 more viable builds with this by slightly nerfing the BM Bunker.

Thanks ANet!

Facerolling in 1v3 in WvW? I call BS. Either the opponents are lowlevel or they just suck. Seriously, vid or GTFO

Diehard.1432:

Aeri.5738:

And I am dead serious.

1) BM rangers where OP, end of story. I specked BM for fun and facerolled 1 v 3 in WvW, without actually knowing what I am doing.
The nerf on Pets was needed, they were just too strong.
The Jaguars base damage wasn’T even reduced, just his F2 got a nerf and I can live with that!

2) Other Non-Pet focused builds got buffed with offhand Axe and LB damage increase
The spirit tree buffs offer some great choices for GS Warriors with Frost Spirit support (believe it or not, this build already was strong in sPVP)
Offhand Axe buff is just awesome, I was running Sw/Axe already and now I can rock even more – thanks ANet!
The Longbow buff was needed and we will see how much damage increase there will actually be. I expect not too much but still a noticable improvement.

3) SB nerf. The only thing I don’t get, but since everybody was running shortbow (if not BM specced) I can understand it somehow.

4)Trait Changes
Imho very good stuff. Some more tweeking for Signet Ranger required, but it got a lot better.
Healing on Shouts sounds fun, I will defenetly try this out.
This could become one of the best Bunker builds GW2 has seen.

TL;DR: Am I seriously the only one who thinks, the (leaked) Patch notes are a good thing for us? ANet offered 2-3 more viable builds with this by slightly nerfing the BM Bunker.

Thanks ANet!

Facerolling in 1v3 in WvW? I call BS. Either the opponents are lowlevel or they just suck. Seriously, vid or GTFO

Ya was just reading that too, they are tough 1v1 sure… but if they won all 1v3 fights you will see them in a lot more numbers. =D

Diehard.1432:

Aeri.5738:

And I am dead serious.

1) BM rangers where OP, end of story. I specked BM for fun and facerolled 1 v 3 in WvW, without actually knowing what I am doing.
The nerf on Pets was needed, they were just too strong.
The Jaguars base damage wasn’T even reduced, just his F2 got a nerf and I can live with that!

2) Other Non-Pet focused builds got buffed with offhand Axe and LB damage increase
The spirit tree buffs offer some great choices for GS Warriors with Frost Spirit support (believe it or not, this build already was strong in sPVP)
Offhand Axe buff is just awesome, I was running Sw/Axe already and now I can rock even more – thanks ANet!
The Longbow buff was needed and we will see how much damage increase there will actually be. I expect not too much but still a noticable improvement.

3) SB nerf. The only thing I don’t get, but since everybody was running shortbow (if not BM specced) I can understand it somehow.

4)Trait Changes
Imho very good stuff. Some more tweeking for Signet Ranger required, but it got a lot better.
Healing on Shouts sounds fun, I will defenetly try this out.
This could become one of the best Bunker builds GW2 has seen.

TL;DR: Am I seriously the only one who thinks, the (leaked) Patch notes are a good thing for us? ANet offered 2-3 more viable builds with this by slightly nerfing the BM Bunker.

Thanks ANet!

Facerolling in 1v3 in WvW? I call BS. Either the opponents are lowlevel or they just suck. Seriously, vid or GTFO

It’s easy to 1v3 as long as they are noobs or they don’t understand the pets needs to be avoided. You can call it faceroll too since ranger SB dps is on autoattack which a lot of newbies don’t understand either ( they used up all 2 3 4 5 skills once entering the fight).

But ranger is no way near OP even in its best build in wvw.

I know that hes trying to point out that Rangers need nerf, however by making this “extreme” claims such as facerolling 1v3 in wvw, thats just sad (surely, rangers are tough in 1 v 1). I exclusively play ranger class only since launch so i would know if this smells fishy.

If they needed a nerf because they were strong in 1v1… then go ahead and blow up every other class that has a build that is really strong 1v1 =D

Edit: The issue isnt the BM spec, it’s the fact we are strongly lacking as a class, and while balancing BM is cool, they really need to look at our weapons and trains again.
We are weak in pve atm, we are the worst WvW class.
We are good at 1v1… which is nearly worthless, oh yay now i can troll roamers in WvW.

I dunno, just seems stupid to chop up our one optimal build and not fix the rest. We will have to wait until patch launches to really see what effect it will have I imagine.

OP is right and wrong at the same time.
I play a Ranger myself and yes, the damage output of some pets was too high just for speccing 30 in beastmastery and going full heal/tank with the rest.

BUT (and this is a tremendous but)
good players can easily avoid the pet damage and there is nothing you (=the ranger) can do about it , because there is no way to control out pets. Heck, even the command is more like a mild suggestion “Terrifying Howl you say? Uhm just let me finish my channel here and ill get back to you in a sec or two”.
Yeah, it might seem overpowered to stomp 3 braindead potatoes without actually paying attention but complaining about it is a bit like complaining about warrior 100b in pvp because it deals so much damage…

I have dueled some really experienced elementalists as well as thiefs as a BM and lost most fights simply because the pet did not hit them one single time with a seriously damaging attack. I won some with a tricky immobilize → pet swap → stealth → hilt bash → sick em combo which took my enemies by surprise (and of course is super easy to land vs. the above mentioned classes… ), but that was more like a one trick pony and does not work on someone who is expecting you to try this.
Besides that, an ele can kite your pet until tomorrow and thiefs…stealth renders all melee pets useless and s/d can blink/shadowstep all day making it even worse. Record in uselessness holds the raven for being locked in the f2 animation for 11sec because it could not hit the thief.

I would gladly take reduced pet damage in exchange for an advanced pet control or significantly improved ai, but this is just a stupid, mindless nerfbat that shows (again) that the developers dont give a rats kitten about the ranger and people have the right to raise their concerns about this.

The “buffs” on longbow are a joke because it still is a lackluster skillset with bad scaling. Axe 4 is OK i guess but we will see.
Spirits? Yay, one trait merged (in fact a good decision). Does not change the fact that spirits are squishy as hell and can be killed along the way. Even the elite spirit dies in a few seconds if your opponent is smart enough to focus it down first before dealing with you.

Ive long before given up on the idea of using my ranger in PvE/dungeons simply because my guardian is so much more useful in most scenarios, hands down. This nerf also hits the pve rangers, which is totally uncalled for. Whats with all that promises about making rangers more viable in dungeons by eliminating some fundamental flaws? Hey, now we will have a Grandmaster trait that allows us to apply regeneration and swiftness, the most useful boons in a dungeon run. I would totally pick that over Stand Your Ground, Hold The Line or Save Yourselves with Pure of Voice traited and maybe a soldier rune. Oh right, I wouldn’t.

And dont get me started on the short bow.

Amenaza.8346:

OP is right and wrong at the same time.
I play a Ranger myself and yes, the damage output of some pets was too high just for speccing 30 in beastmastery and going full heal/tank with the rest.

BUT (and this is a tremendous but)
good players can easily avoid the pet damage and there is nothing you (=the ranger) can do about it , because there is no way to control out pets. Heck, even the command is more like a mild suggestion “Terrifying Howl you say? Uhm just let me finish my channel here and ill get back to you in a sec or two”.
Yeah, it might seem overpowered to stomp 3 braindead potatoes without actually paying attention but complaining about it is a bit like complaining about warrior 100b in pvp because it deals so much damage…

I have dueled some really experienced elementalists as well as thiefs as a BM and lost most fights simply because the pet did not hit them one single time with a seriously damaging attack. I won some with a tricky immobilize -> pet swap -> stealth -> hilt bash -> sick em combo which took my enemies by surprise (and of course is super easy to land vs. the above mentioned classes… ), but that was more like a one trick pony and does not work on someone who is expecting you to try this.
Besides that, an ele can kite your pet until tomorrow and thiefs…stealth renders all melee pets useless and s/d can blink/shadowstep all day making it even worse. Record in uselessness holds the raven for being locked in the f2 animation for 11sec because it could not hit the thief.

I would gladly take reduced pet damage in exchange for an advanced pet control or significantly improved ai, but this is just a stupid, mindless nerfbat that shows (again) that the developers dont give a rats kitten about the ranger and people have the right to raise their concerns about this.

The “buffs” on longbow are a joke because it still is a lackluster skillset with bad scaling. Axe 4 is OK i guess but we will see.
Spirits? Yay, one trait merged (in fact a good decision). Does not change the fact that spirits are squishy as hell and can be killed along the way. Even the elite spirit dies in a few seconds if your opponent is smart enough to focus it down first before dealing with you.

Ive long before given up on the idea of using my ranger in PvE/dungeons simply because my guardian is so much more useful in most scenarios, hands down. This nerf also hits the pve rangers, which is totally uncalled for. Whats with all that promises about making rangers more viable in dungeons by eliminating some fundamental flaws? Hey, now we will have a Grandmaster trait that allows us to apply regeneration and swiftness, the most useful boons in a dungeon run. I would totally pick that over Stand Your Ground, Hold The Line or Save Yourselves with Pure of Voice traited and maybe a soldier rune. Oh right, I wouldn’t.

And dont get me started on the short bow.

How dare you suggest good players can avoid pets. You are obviously a noob!
Speccing into shouts for AoE regen and swiftness is gonna make us OP when combined with teh powerful party orientated shouts we have too and suggesting it wont is nonsense!
/sarcasm

Seriously tho….Spirits never die. Why? Because they never get summoned in the first place.

Face rolling in 1v3 is not easy…nor is it Face rolling, anyone who claims they can take 3 equal lvl players on a ranger consistently is flat out lying..

Manekk.6981:

Nugget.8031:

Manekk.6981:

Xsorus.2507:

Yea Tailswipe is a pain to land, won’t deny that.

i also think you’re underestimating the power of all the time Crits on a Jaguar Stealth vs 25%.

Go use the Bird for example.. and you’ll see its not guaranteed critting every time.

It’s if I understand it correctly 25% increased chance from it’s already high base not a flat 25% critchance this would mean a 20-30point bm jag having like 70-80%critchance in stealth, unless I’m totally off on their base critchance but I seem to remember someone calculating it to be close to or slightly above 50% with so many bm points.

Critical Chance at lvl 80 = round down((precision – 822) / 21)

Using that, Cats have 59% crit at lvl 80 by default and 73% with 30 points in Beast mastery, even more if you stack masters bond. So yeah, it’ll still have pretty much guaranteed crits while in stealth.

If this is right their critchance is even higher than I thought wich would only make this nerf all the smaller and more insignificant.

That sounds like a huge nerf if you don’t invest in beastmastery. 40% less crit chance while in stealth and 28% less crit chance even with 30 in BM. Plus the maul nerf. Why do ppl discard this change as insignificant?

Besides master’s bonds and 30pts in BM is a pretty big investment to get jaguar damage to almost the same place it was before the nerf.

Every person QQ about pet damage really needs to learn to dodge and/or kite. Because even after nearly a year Anet fails to make the AI of the pets a working AI.
Pet nerf?? Ok but at least make it a working pet.

matenzo.9518:

Manekk.6981:

Nugget.8031:

Manekk.6981:

Xsorus.2507:

Yea Tailswipe is a pain to land, won’t deny that.

i also think you’re underestimating the power of all the time Crits on a Jaguar Stealth vs 25%.

Go use the Bird for example.. and you’ll see its not guaranteed critting every time.

It’s if I understand it correctly 25% increased chance from it’s already high base not a flat 25% critchance this would mean a 20-30point bm jag having like 70-80%critchance in stealth, unless I’m totally off on their base critchance but I seem to remember someone calculating it to be close to or slightly above 50% with so many bm points.

Critical Chance at lvl 80 = round down((precision – 822) / 21)

Using that, Cats have 59% crit at lvl 80 by default and 73% with 30 points in Beast mastery, even more if you stack masters bond. So yeah, it’ll still have pretty much guaranteed crits while in stealth.

If this is right their critchance is even higher than I thought wich would only make this nerf all the smaller and more insignificant.

That sounds like a huge nerf if you don’t invest in beastmastery. 40% less crit chance while in stealth and 28% less crit chance even with 30 in BM. Plus the maul nerf. Why do ppl discard this change as insignificant?

Besides master’s bonds and 30pts in BM is a pretty big investment to get jaguar damage to almost the same place it was before the nerf.

Because it is insignificant, based on the numbers above here’s how it will look after this nerf to stalk:

Level 80 Jaguar 0 points in BM 59% critchance
Level 80 Jaguar 0 points in BM using stealth 84% critchance
Level 80 Jaguar 30 points in BM 73% critchance
Level 80 Jaguar 30 points in BM using stealth 98% critchance

It’s chance to crit during stalk even with 0BM points will be extremely high even after the nerf it effectively will do very little.

The nerf to maul however is not insignificant it basically removes the burst from the Jaguar.

Amenaza.8346:

OP is right and wrong at the same time.
I play a Ranger myself and yes, the damage output of some pets was too high just for speccing 30 in beastmastery and going full heal/tank with the rest.

BUT (and this is a tremendous but)
good players can easily avoid the pet damage and there is nothing you (=the ranger) can do about it , because there is no way to control out pets. Heck, even the command is more like a mild suggestion “Terrifying Howl you say? Uhm just let me finish my channel here and ill get back to you in a sec or two”.
Yeah, it might seem overpowered to stomp 3 braindead potatoes without actually paying attention but complaining about it is a bit like complaining about warrior 100b in pvp because it deals so much damage…

I have dueled some really experienced elementalists as well as thiefs as a BM and lost most fights simply because the pet did not hit them one single time with a seriously damaging attack. I won some with a tricky immobilize -> pet swap -> stealth -> hilt bash -> sick em combo which took my enemies by surprise (and of course is super easy to land vs. the above mentioned classes… ), but that was more like a one trick pony and does not work on someone who is expecting you to try this.
Besides that, an ele can kite your pet until tomorrow and thiefs…stealth renders all melee pets useless and s/d can blink/shadowstep all day making it even worse. Record in uselessness holds the raven for being locked in the f2 animation for 11sec because it could not hit the thief.

I would gladly take reduced pet damage in exchange for an advanced pet control or significantly improved ai, but this is just a stupid, mindless nerfbat that shows (again) that the developers dont give a rats kitten about the ranger and people have the right to raise their concerns about this.

The “buffs” on longbow are a joke because it still is a lackluster skillset with bad scaling. Axe 4 is OK i guess but we will see.
Spirits? Yay, one trait merged (in fact a good decision). Does not change the fact that spirits are squishy as hell and can be killed along the way. Even the elite spirit dies in a few seconds if your opponent is smart enough to focus it down first before dealing with you.

Ive long before given up on the idea of using my ranger in PvE/dungeons simply because my guardian is so much more useful in most scenarios, hands down. This nerf also hits the pve rangers, which is totally uncalled for. Whats with all that promises about making rangers more viable in dungeons by eliminating some fundamental flaws? Hey, now we will have a Grandmaster trait that allows us to apply regeneration and swiftness, the most useful boons in a dungeon run. I would totally pick that over Stand Your Ground, Hold The Line or Save Yourselves with Pure of Voice traited and maybe a soldier rune. Oh right, I wouldn’t.

And dont get me started on the short bow.

with that shout trait and 10 in BM rangers can give the party perm swiftness and regen only by using the guard shout, which gives your pets perma prot as well. That’s not insignificant. The LB buffs were not minor tweaks either. Did you see how the aftercast was changed? I’m not a math whiz but I think that makes it a 25% dmg increase. Spirits remain to be seen, sun spirit’s cast was buffed to actually be reliable and storm spirit got a big dmg upgrade, maybe spirit bomber builds will be viable who knows. Point is, reserve judgement until 1) the notes are actually released and 2) when you have a chance to thoroughly test them

My friend with a staff ellys can stack swiftness an regeneration just about the same plus might and protection to the team and remove conditions and he doesn’t need to use a particular rune set, so he has more flexibility and he can use another one.

that’s cool, but is it as easy for your ele friend as it is for a ranger? It only requires 1 skill. In the NM traitline you can trait to give vigor on your heals (which renews everytime healing spring ticks). Bring a jungle stalker to give 3 stacks of might on it’s f2, bring a crimson moa/blue moa for fury/prot.

Bring the above with frost and either stone or storm spirit with axe, pull mobs on top of the spirits with axe 4 and bomb them. In 1 trait line you can provide perma swiftness/regen, almost perm vigor, 10% damage buff to your party (or is it 7, can’t remember), huge fury uptime with crimson moa/warhorn and good prot uptime with crimson moa/stone spirit. Rangers will actually be able to bring good party support after this patch.

Problem is, a lot of bad people will focus on the negatives of the patch which just shines more light on the whole “rangers suck” vibe that goes around the entire community, not just the ranger boards, instead of trying to prove people otherwise with the tools given them

FWIW, I believe these leaked notes to be true. After reading through the Ranger notes, it simply has that ANet feel to it. By that, I mean the ham-handed attempt at easy fixing a “problem” rather than addressing the root cause. It also takes without giving (which is an ANet trademark when it comes to Rangers). If nothing else, that single fingerprint more than anything else identifies it as their work.

They are, at this point, floundering and clueless how to balance these classes. They’ve no idea how to fix WvW. The list could go on, but why bother. It requires more energy than I’m willing to expend on a game that will soon be deleted.

I said something on these forums about 4 months ago that still holds true. ANet doesn’t balance this game from game play. They attempt to balance it from a sterile lab environment and if it works there, then its fine and dandy. Unfortunately, as we all know, that approach doesn’t work.

I’m curious about one thing. How do you all feel about the Ranger Savior Developer that graced us all with his “interaction” and promised to take pet issues before the balance committee? For those on here that seemed to love him, how’s that working out for you?

Doug.9628:

Amenaza.8346:

OP is right and wrong at the same time.
I play a Ranger myself and yes, the damage output of some pets was too high just for speccing 30 in beastmastery and going full heal/tank with the rest.

BUT (and this is a tremendous but)
good players can easily avoid the pet damage and there is nothing you (=the ranger) can do about it , because there is no way to control out pets. Heck, even the command is more like a mild suggestion “Terrifying Howl you say? Uhm just let me finish my channel here and ill get back to you in a sec or two”.
Yeah, it might seem overpowered to stomp 3 braindead potatoes without actually paying attention but complaining about it is a bit like complaining about warrior 100b in pvp because it deals so much damage…

I have dueled some really experienced elementalists as well as thiefs as a BM and lost most fights simply because the pet did not hit them one single time with a seriously damaging attack. I won some with a tricky immobilize -> pet swap -> stealth -> hilt bash -> sick em combo which took my enemies by surprise (and of course is super easy to land vs. the above mentioned classes… ), but that was more like a one trick pony and does not work on someone who is expecting you to try this.
Besides that, an ele can kite your pet until tomorrow and thiefs…stealth renders all melee pets useless and s/d can blink/shadowstep all day making it even worse. Record in uselessness holds the raven for being locked in the f2 animation for 11sec because it could not hit the thief.

I would gladly take reduced pet damage in exchange for an advanced pet control or significantly improved ai, but this is just a stupid, mindless nerfbat that shows (again) that the developers dont give a rats kitten about the ranger and people have the right to raise their concerns about this.

The “buffs” on longbow are a joke because it still is a lackluster skillset with bad scaling. Axe 4 is OK i guess but we will see.
Spirits? Yay, one trait merged (in fact a good decision). Does not change the fact that spirits are squishy as hell and can be killed along the way. Even the elite spirit dies in a few seconds if your opponent is smart enough to focus it down first before dealing with you.

Ive long before given up on the idea of using my ranger in PvE/dungeons simply because my guardian is so much more useful in most scenarios, hands down. This nerf also hits the pve rangers, which is totally uncalled for. Whats with all that promises about making rangers more viable in dungeons by eliminating some fundamental flaws? Hey, now we will have a Grandmaster trait that allows us to apply regeneration and swiftness, the most useful boons in a dungeon run. I would totally pick that over Stand Your Ground, Hold The Line or Save Yourselves with Pure of Voice traited and maybe a soldier rune. Oh right, I wouldn’t.

And dont get me started on the short bow.

with that shout trait and 10 in BM rangers can give the party perm swiftness and regen only by using the guard shout, which gives your pets perma prot as well. That’s not insignificant. The LB buffs were not minor tweaks either. Did you see how the aftercast was changed? I’m not a math whiz but I think that makes it a 25% dmg increase. Spirits remain to be seen, sun spirit’s cast was buffed to actually be reliable and storm spirit got a big dmg upgrade, maybe spirit bomber builds will be viable who knows. Point is, reserve judgement until 1) the notes are actually released and 2) when you have a chance to thoroughly test them

A. Swiftness in a dungeon is about as useful as a 3rd nipple on a dude…. and despite is minor use EVERY class can provide it…Elementalist and Guardians can provide it to everyone very easily….. Regen is the same way..If you spend 30 points in Natures to get a Regen that you should automatically be providing anyway with Healing Spring then you’re wasting points. If it provided something beside those two buffs, something useful like Protection to the group, or stability…Then we’d be talking about an actual decent buff…. if 30 points gave me and everyone around me 5 seconds of stability, I would spec 30 points in Nature just for that. But for Regen and Swiftness, hell no…. ..

B. you’re not a math wiz.

do u know how long spirits last on any fight that matters? 2 seconds. after failpatch 4 seconds and you want to pull mobs on top of them now? to break world record of fastest spirit death?. swiftness, regen, vigor wow gamebreaking buffs your party will suddenly faceroll the dungeon because of those… really…
and prot provided by spirit… o wait it just died… next fight nice it survived because the war blew up the mobs so fast i couldnt comprehend it i thought best way we kill mobs is 1 by 1 with mah longbow and my bear. nice i can be useful with party prot… o wait we have to move to the next place and now have to leave spirit behind and wait for cooldown… butbut i took spirits unbound so my prot spirit can run with me yay. o wait the trash mob we were running past just killed it.

you see wut happen there spent 30 points accomplished nothing. meanwhile i can spend 30 pts on warrior and do way more dmg and practically permanent party buffs than ranger can dream of

all buffs you mention other classes can do better WHILE having respectable dps.
maybe you should play the other classes first before giving misleading info on balance?

Doug.9628:

with that shout trait and 10 in BM rangers can give the party perm swiftness and regen only by using the guard shout, which gives your pets perma prot as well. That’s not insignificant.

You seriously need to look at the bigger picture, not just on one skill and tell us “it does x y and z, thats not nothing! (or thats not insignificant)” – well of course it is something but compare it to other professions.
In your case a ranger has to spend 30 trait points and a grandmaster trait to make the shouts actually affect the party (instead of pet only) to begin with. In addition to that the party bonus is mediocre at best and redundant on top of that, because there are so many ways to gain regeneration (and swiftness is just unneccessary in most cases) – including our own water field Healing Spring.

Then have a look at Warrior or Guardian shouts – they are beneficial for the whole party without any trait point spent and can provide crucial boons like stability or protection. Granted, the uptime is less but id rather take 5sec stability on demand compared to 20sec regen and swiftness in a dungeon. For WvW stability or condition remove on shout is even more important – at least when running in organized guild groups.
And lets assume our Guardian also wants to spend 30 trait points in Honor to improve the shouts via Pure of Voice (Allies affected by shouts convert one condition to a boon. – which alone is significantly better than Nature’s Voice). Honor also includes the 20% shout recharge reduction and overall provides superior party support. Compare that to Nature Magic, a traitline centered around our gimpy spirits (that dont survive any serious encounter) and some ego stuff.

So when it comes to efficiency, why on earth would you pick that shout-supporting ranger over a shout supporting guardian?

Amenaza.8346:

Doug.9628:

with that shout trait and 10 in BM rangers can give the party perm swiftness and regen only by using the guard shout, which gives your pets perma prot as well. That’s not insignificant.

You seriously need to look at the bigger picture, not just on one skill and tell us “it does x y and z, thats not nothing! (or thats not insignificant)” – well of course it is something but compare it to other professions.
In your case a ranger has to spend 30 trait points and a grandmaster trait to make the shouts actually affect the party (instead of pet only) to begin with. In addition to that the party bonus is mediocre at best and redundant on top of that, because there are so many ways to gain regeneration (and swiftness is just unneccessary in most cases) – including our own water field Healing Spring.

Then have a look at Warrior or Guardian shouts – they are beneficial for the whole party without any trait point spent and can provide crucial boons like stability or protection. Granted, the uptime is less but id rather take 5sec stability on demand compared to 20sec regen and swiftness in a dungeon. For WvW stability or condition remove on shout is even more important – at least when running in organized guild groups.
And lets assume our Guardian also wants to spend 30 trait points in Honor to improve the shouts via Pure of Voice (Allies affected by shouts convert one condition to a boon. – which alone is significantly better than Nature’s Voice). Honor also includes the 20% shout recharge reduction and overall provides superior party support. Compare that to Nature Magic, a traitline centered around our gimpy spirits (that dont survive any serious encounter) and some ego stuff.

So when it comes to efficiency, why on earth would you pick that shout-supporting ranger over a shout supporting guardian?

Careful, before you know it someone will hit you with an anecdote about how their tier 5, guild group runs every class and does just fine killing lone wanderers and taking supply camps.

I’m actually excited about the swiftness change because it would mean that for the first time since they debugged pets on walls, we will finally contribute in wvw. Still pointless in large fights, but it’s somthing.

back to spamming traps with wolf/hound then

I don’t think these patches are real, but if they are Ive gotta say my debate between ranger and Mesmer will be over!

Aeri.5738:

And I am dead serious.

1) BM rangers where OP, end of story. I specked BM for fun and facerolled 1 v 3 in WvW, without actually knowing what I am doing.
The nerf on Pets was needed, they were just too strong.
The Jaguars base damage wasn’T even reduced, just his F2 got a nerf and I can live with that!

2) Other Non-Pet focused builds got buffed with offhand Axe and LB damage increase
The spirit tree buffs offer some great choices for GS Warriors with Frost Spirit support (believe it or not, this build already was strong in sPVP)
Offhand Axe buff is just awesome, I was running Sw/Axe already and now I can rock even more – thanks ANet!
The Longbow buff was needed and we will see how much damage increase there will actually be. I expect not too much but still a noticable improvement.

3) SB nerf. The only thing I don’t get, but since everybody was running shortbow (if not BM specced) I can understand it somehow.

4)Trait Changes
Imho very good stuff. Some more tweeking for Signet Ranger required, but it got a lot better.
Healing on Shouts sounds fun, I will defenetly try this out.
This could become one of the best Bunker builds GW2 has seen.

TL;DR: Am I seriously the only one who thinks, the (leaked) Patch notes are a good thing for us? ANet offered 2-3 more viable builds with this by slightly nerfing the BM Bunker.

Thanks ANet!

pretty sure this was ironic.

Durzlla.6295:

I don’t think these patches are real, but if they are Ive gotta say my debate between ranger and Mesmer will be over!

Yup. My new Mesmer is level 5….

thefantasticg.3984:

Durzlla.6295:

I don’t think these patches are real, but if they are Ive gotta say my debate between ranger and Mesmer will be over!

Yup. My new Mesmer is level 5….

Mine is like lv 54 or something like that, i’ve been actually playing him in PvE now that my friend is playing again

If these patch notes are correct. I for one will be running the new hybrid BM/Bunker in WvW and TPvP, without the update its really nasty with the update It will be very awesome I for one can’t wait..

MementoMortis.4258:

It just seems so crazy to nerf an AI controlled, unreliable and inconsistent source of damage that can be kited or killed SO easily.

I’m so mad right now.

This opinion is where I think the line gets drawn and things need to get spelled out.

In a game with competitive game modes, you simply do not load up an AI with a large, near majority of damage output, and then try to call that competitive. Managing pets in this game is about as hard as sitting on the toilet and playing angry birds at the same time.
You do 4 things, you say go attack stuff, use this specific, mostly arbitrary for all but a few pets skill, come back, or you swap the pet.

The pet handles literally EVERYTHING ELSE. It paths itself, it autoattacks, and usually except for maybe birds, the most damaging attack is built into its attack chain that it AUTOMATICALLY executes. If this was a shooting game, the game would be aiming the gun for you, and all you would have to do is pull the trigger once, and then the game would keep firing the gun for you until what you are shooting at is dead, or you want to stop.

That type of mechanic, combined with how much of the damage the pet accounts for, is not competitive, no matter how avidly people argue it to be. It would be balanced if the player had to physically manage to execute every skill that the pet was capable of, and manage all of that, because that level of management would be worth the damage potential.

But with such a simple system, the pet should have never had so much damage potential in the first place. They should have been a sustainable 10-20% of the damage output with a higher purpose being to provide improvable utility for both the player and potentially groups of other players, and should not in any way in this system be easy to kill because of how inconsequential it would be in determining fights, AKA, you can’t just let it attack you, you have to kite, and killing it would make the ranger player lose benefits for themselves and the team.

There is no way in the world the pet system is good, but there is also no reason why the damage being on the pet in this system is even remotely okay unless it is a much more controllable feature of the rangers arsenal.

jcbroe.4329:

MementoMortis.4258:

It just seems so crazy to nerf an AI controlled, unreliable and inconsistent source of damage that can be kited or killed SO easily.

I’m so mad right now.

This opinion is where I think the line gets drawn and things need to get spelled out.

In a game with competitive game modes, you simply do not load up an AI with a large, near majority of damage output, and then try to call that competitive. Managing pets in this game is about as hard as sitting on the toilet and playing angry birds at the same time.
You do 4 things, you say go attack stuff, use this specific, mostly arbitrary for all but a few pets skill, come back, or you swap the pet.

The pet handles literally EVERYTHING ELSE. It paths itself, it autoattacks, and usually except for maybe birds, the most damaging attack is built into its attack chain that it AUTOMATICALLY executes. If this was a shooting game, the game would be aiming the gun for you, and all you would have to do is pull the trigger once, and then the game would keep firing the gun for you until what you are shooting at is dead, or you want to stop.

That type of mechanic, combined with how much of the damage the pet accounts for, is not competitive, no matter how avidly people argue it to be. It would be balanced if the player had to physically manage to execute every skill that the pet was capable of, and manage all of that, because that level of management would be worth the damage potential.

But with such a simple system, the pet should have never had so much damage potential in the first place. They should have been a sustainable 10-20% of the damage output with a higher purpose being to provide improvable utility for both the player and potentially groups of other players, and should not in any way in this system be easy to kill because of how inconsequential it would be in determining fights, AKA, you can’t just let it attack you, you have to kite, and killing it would make the ranger player lose benefits for themselves and the team.

There is no way in the world the pet system is good, but there is also no reason why the damage being on the pet in this system is even remotely okay unless it is a much more controllable feature of the rangers arsenal.

I’m sorry, but calling TPvP Competitive in comparison to other MMO’s is stretching it.

8v8 in DAOC was far far more Competitive then this game, and it had plenty of classes that did the majority of their damage from pets.

Bonedancer’s for example, Theurgist, Animist ect ect.

Thing is, with DAOC 8mans learned that you couldn’t just ignore pets on the field. Because if you did you’d lose…So if for example, dealing with a Theurgist you’d have a Dedicated AOEr just to handle Theurgist pets, That was his job….Bonedancer pets were often focused down because they were annoying as hell if you let them run around (not to mention they hit incredibly hard when ML9 was up)

This game is completely different, if there a pet on you in TPvP, no one wants to be forced to deal with that pet..Instead they prefer their damage not be noticeable so they can ignore it. Its same thing with Mesmer’s really, They’re basically Theurgist, No one wants to clear Mesmer pets… so they want them nerfed the same way…

Now I know you’re going to say “Well I’m talking about Structured” and i’m going to say.. WAR was pretty similar as well…. Squig Herders for example had pets that you absolutely did want to kill…Because they could ML3 their Spiked Squig and instantly kill your casters. White Lions even had some similar builds that put their damage on their pets (not to mention when the pull existed, you absolutely wanted to kill that pet before it got to you)

Rift for example also has Pets that again make up the majority of the characters damage…. and they’re killed as soon as possible because of that…

This is the one game that i’ve seen where the player base just doesn’t want to deal with actual strategy, They want to stick to their nice safe strategies and not change the meta any. This is partly the reason why I think they shouldn’t be trying to balance this game around the Esport nature, Because it’ll never be an Esport…Because the TPvP is a joke…

To use a HoN reference (because I don’t play LoL), If this was HoN the top players it seems would be kittening that BooBoo from Wild Soul is to powerful.

Xsorus.2507:

jcbroe.4329:

MementoMortis.4258:

It just seems so crazy to nerf an AI controlled, unreliable and inconsistent source of damage that can be kited or killed SO easily.

I’m so mad right now.

This opinion is where I think the line gets drawn and things need to get spelled out.

In a game with competitive game modes, you simply do not load up an AI with a large, near majority of damage output, and then try to call that competitive. Managing pets in this game is about as hard as sitting on the toilet and playing angry birds at the same time.
You do 4 things, you say go attack stuff, use this specific, mostly arbitrary for all but a few pets skill, come back, or you swap the pet.

The pet handles literally EVERYTHING ELSE. It paths itself, it autoattacks, and usually except for maybe birds, the most damaging attack is built into its attack chain that it AUTOMATICALLY executes. If this was a shooting game, the game would be aiming the gun for you, and all you would have to do is pull the trigger once, and then the game would keep firing the gun for you until what you are shooting at is dead, or you want to stop.

That type of mechanic, combined with how much of the damage the pet accounts for, is not competitive, no matter how avidly people argue it to be. It would be balanced if the player had to physically manage to execute every skill that the pet was capable of, and manage all of that, because that level of management would be worth the damage potential.

But with such a simple system, the pet should have never had so much damage potential in the first place. They should have been a sustainable 10-20% of the damage output with a higher purpose being to provide improvable utility for both the player and potentially groups of other players, and should not in any way in this system be easy to kill because of how inconsequential it would be in determining fights, AKA, you can’t just let it attack you, you have to kite, and killing it would make the ranger player lose benefits for themselves and the team.

There is no way in the world the pet system is good, but there is also no reason why the damage being on the pet in this system is even remotely okay unless it is a much more controllable feature of the rangers arsenal.

I’m sorry, but calling TPvP Competitive in comparison to other MMO’s is stretching it.

8v8 in DAOC was far far more Competitive then this game, and it had plenty of classes that did the majority of their damage from pets.

Bonedancer’s for example, Theurgist, Animist ect ect.

Thing is, with DAOC 8mans learned that you couldn’t just ignore pets on the field. Because if you did you’d lose…So if for example, dealing with a Theurgist you’d have a Dedicated AOEr just to handle Theurgist pets, That was his job….Bonedancer pets were often focused down because they were annoying as hell if you let them run around (not to mention they hit incredibly hard when ML9 was up)

This game is completely different, if there a pet on you in TPvP, no one wants to be forced to deal with that pet..Instead they prefer their damage not be noticeable so they can ignore it. Its same thing with Mesmer’s really, They’re basically Theurgist, No one wants to clear Mesmer pets… so they want them nerfed the same way…

Now I know you’re going to say “Well I’m talking about Structured” and i’m going to say.. WAR was pretty similar as well…. Squig Herders for example had pets that you absolutely did want to kill…Because they could ML3 their Spiked Squig and instantly kill your casters. White Lions even had some similar builds that put their damage on their pets (not to mention when the pull existed, you absolutely wanted to kill that pet before it got to you)

Rift for example also has Pets that again make up the majority of the characters damage…. and they’re killed as soon as possible because of that…

This is the one game that i’ve seen where the player base just doesn’t want to deal with actual strategy, They want to stick to their nice safe strategies and not change the meta any. This is partly the reason why I think they shouldn’t be trying to balance this game around the Esport nature, Because it’ll never be an Esport…Because the TPvP is a joke…

To use a HoN reference (because I don’t play LoL), If this was HoN the top players it seems would be kittening that BooBoo from Wild Soul is to powerful.

I wanted to log in just to thumb up this post. I played as a SH in Warhammer Online for many years and can attest to just how involved a good pet class can be. It’s a mentality today in newer pvp games where players don’t think they should have to deal with pets just because they think they are some carebear mechanic. I’d love more control over pets currently, and I think that would go a long way. For someone to say all pet classes are non-competitive is just silly.

I didn’t include WoW, even though Hunters until recently were incredibly powerful with their Beastmaster build in it with Arena’s..But i’ve not played WoW in a long long time so I don’t know the whole story on it…From what I understand they could summon all their pets at once on the person along with some other nasty cooldowns.

kind of amazing to me how long this troll thread has gone. the dude probably plays Warrior.

Xsorus.2507:

-snip-

This is the one game that i’ve seen where the player base just doesn’t want to deal with actual strategy, They want to stick to their nice safe strategies and not change the meta any. This is partly the reason why I think they shouldn’t be trying to balance this game around the Esport nature, Because it’ll never be an Esport…Because the TPvP is a joke…

While I dislike your tone, you make a very good point. I feel the same way with necro summons and phantasms. I just ignore them and beeline for the player, often getting myself nuked by clones or knocked down by a flesh golem.

I feel this picture is very appropriate with what you said and the overall atmosphere of the ranger section:

Dude, we had bad DPS, and now we have even worse DPS. It’s a no-brainer, this stuff is destructive for our class. You know, I never understood how come a heavy armored class could dish out more damage and bring more utility to the group? It makes no sense.

something about pets : once i sent my wolf after a suply dolyak in wvw while i caped the camp. i watched my pet and laughed… the puppy just bit the air if its target move. the pets stop to hit and the target walk away.
something about ranger : nearly impossible to use longbow in pvp. easy to hide behind something or must go closer—>low dmg.
and btw u cant keep distance. we have 2 skills to root down the enemy, but they are useless. easy to get out.

McWolfy.5924:

something about pets : once i sent my wolf after a suply dolyak in wvw while i caped the camp. i watched my pet and laughed… the puppy just bit the air if its target move. the pets stop to hit and the target walk away.
something about ranger : nearly impossible to use longbow in pvp. easy to hide behind something or must go closer—>low dmg.
and btw u cant keep distance. we have 2 skills to root down the enemy, but they are useless. easy to get out.

This is straight up bull. Dolyaks don’t move fast enough to dodge pet autoattack by just walking. :/

jubskie.3152:

McWolfy.5924:

something about pets : once i sent my wolf after a suply dolyak in wvw while i caped the camp. i watched my pet and laughed… the puppy just bit the air if its target move. the pets stop to hit and the target walk away.
something about ranger : nearly impossible to use longbow in pvp. easy to hide behind something or must go closer—>low dmg.
and btw u cant keep distance. we have 2 skills to root down the enemy, but they are useless. easy to get out.

This is straight up bull. Dolyaks don’t move fast enough to dodge pet autoattack by just walking. :/

It happens, but not all the time. The canine usually does their knockdown first and it will do a pause animation before that, and then the dolyak moves out of range and the AI either cancels the skill or follow through and miss.

Great Troll OP, obviously never played a Ranger in your life.. Gonna really make PvE dungeons even more of a nightmare gg..

Agree that the BM Bunker build needed a nerf, but it probably should have been through lowering the pet attribute bonus so as to not affect power builds…

As stated above: the Jaguar still has almost 100% crit in stealth.
I’ts spike damage got nerfed a bit, but this was the point of the nerf.

The thing a Ranger is known for is adapting to any situation.
To all those whining here in the Forums about not-yet-released patch notes that nerfed a single build: you are no true rangers, better learn to adapt.

Since most of you agree that I am “a fool” and “never played a ranger before” I am wondering why I can come up with other viable builds and be succesfull with it while also having a great deal of fun – and you can’t.
I was running sw/axe in sPvP and WvW and it was awesome, I used to play Power Axe builds – a lot of fun and great for dungeons, also pretty good in WvW.
Depending on the Map I use Longbow with heavy BM as artillery support, very effective and again: a lot of fun.

You guys just need to stop whining and start thinking out of the box.
I don’t care what you think about me, I have fun my way and I don’t get stomped by others as easily as you might think.
This game rewards creativity in builds, something you didn’t show yet.

PS: no, I dont play Warrior. Warrior is so much weaker than Ranger in any PvP type content.
And unlike most of you I will not reroll just because my class received a small nerf on pets.

Still looking forward to try the new build possibilities

I can’t imagine how kitten ed off my team would be if I was throwing around an axe in dungeons… Dat low dps and the uncontrollable bounce. In general it is stupid to bring range into a dungeon, with SB being the only exception. DPS is king in dungeons and most pve content. That is fact. That is why I rolled a warrior specifically for it. Been great ever since. Also, real easy to get into teams. Thats not just with COF or COE.

This game doesn’t reward creative builds, it rewards high dps builds… especially in PVE/dungeons.

@Xsorus;

Oh no, Guild Wars 2 is not competitive at all, but that’s the whole point; there’s no way with the current pet system, mechanic system, gametype, and leaderboard iteration that it will be anytime soon, if ever.

If the pets are supposed to be so much damage, they should have functioned exactly like heroes did in guild wars 1, where you had to micro their movement and which skills they used in order to get the highest potential use out of them.

It makes much more sense even just to have the pet do a sustained, not ignorable sustained damage output through an autoattack, but then you have to micro all of their big damage or strong utility (moas heal) skills.

No, people should not be able to ignore pets. But at the same time, rangers shouldn’t be able to just hit F1, monitor the pets health bar, and then call it back or swap it appropriately, while it does fairly hefty chunks of damage for any player who isn’t brain dead enough to allow someone to run circles around their pet.

The big damage, like most other games out there, needed to have a higher skill cap to begin with, preferably one within the control of the ranger player, so thakittens up to them to use their skills/abilities to be successful in fights.

I don’t think having to press 1 or 2 extra buttons in order to control the pets big damage or utility skills would be much of a hindrance to the players, but it would require a higher skill level in order to be made completely effective, and at the top it would be more effective for people who want to utilize the pet to its full potential, because they would get to control when the pet fires off its important skills, which would be monumental.

Jon Sharp has stated in SOTG we are not to have too much control because it’ll scare off new ranger players. So, yeah. Suck it people who want more control.

thefantasticg.3984:

Jon Sharp has stated in SOTG we are not to have too much control because it’ll scare off new ranger players. So, yeah. Suck it people who want more control.

Yeah, but I guess he never realized less useful and less damaging pets would “scare off” ranger players either.

jcbroe.4329:

thefantasticg.3984:

Jon Sharp has stated in SOTG we are not to have too much control because it’ll scare off new ranger players. So, yeah. Suck it people who want more control.

Yeah, but I guess he never realized less useful and less damaging pets would “scare off” ranger players either.

Yeah but new players don’t see that first thing…basically;
IT’S A TRAP!

Castaliea.3156:

jcbroe.4329:

thefantasticg.3984:

Jon Sharp has stated in SOTG we are not to have too much control because it’ll scare off new ranger players. So, yeah. Suck it people who want more control.

Yeah, but I guess he never realized less useful and less damaging pets would “scare off” ranger players either.

Yeah but new players don’t see that first thing…basically;
IT’S A TRAP!

The thing is, I don’t see how having more control over the pet is any scarier than how the engineer functions with its toolbelt and kits, or how the elementalist functions with attunement swapping.

Not implementing a feature with a higher skill ceiling just because “it’s too hard” for some people is just about the worst argument I’ve ever heard, because there isn’t a single thing wrong with letting skill floors and ceilings separate players by skill level within a game. That’s actually just about a literal definition of something being competitive; people being separated by skill level.