Guild Wars 2

The answer is quite simple. The good players don’t wanna rely on the “RNG” of the pet’s attacks. Give us the option to disable the pet entirely, or have more active control over it (what a shocker, some micro-management), or else it will always be this way even if Rangers were miraculously buffed one day (I jest). I would LOVE to see some different F1-4 options that could be used more in combat rather than us having control over 1 skill. Shoot, I’d love to be able to actually tell the pet where to go and set waypoints, etc., but I know that is a fool’s dream.

Just kind of wanted to vent, as I’ve mained ranger since launch (and don’t have a single other level 80) and am tired of not being viable against the harder to play classes that offer a higher ceiling (and no, I’m not talking about warriors).

Another much needed feature that was in GW but in GW2. Around the millionth.

Thats just a problem with pets, thats not why you see more bad rangers. Mostly bad rangers is because bearbow is so effective while leveling up

There is some changes they could do:
1. Make F1 be a ground target skill when you don’t have target.
2. Pet should always be in front of the ranger, not running 15 feet behind.
3. Allow the pet to be stowed while in combat.

Carpboy.7145:

Thats just a problem with pets, thats not why you see more bad rangers. Mostly bad rangers is because bearbow is so effective while leveling up

But even if you fixed pet F2 skills, increased their attack range, and gave them a speed boost, it’s STILL an RNG thing to me. It isn’t something you can guaranteed count on. Sure the pet may hit more often/more reliably, but there will always be the problem that YOU do not have much control over the pet. Not to mention the fact that stealth COMPLETELY throws off the pet and completely takes it out of the game so to speak.

The RNG factor just makes the Ranger a harder profession to master, and its not going away, because the Ranger is supposed to be a pet class, where you are effectively controlling the actions of 2 characters instead of 1. The Best Rangers are able to take advantage of the Pet’s Strength’s instead of complaining about the Pet’s Weaknesses. The Bad Rangers are the ones who don’t like to use the pet.

Chrispy.5641:

The RNG factor just makes the Ranger a harder profession to master, and its not going away, because the Ranger is supposed to be a pet class, where you are effectively controlling the actions of 2 characters instead of 1. The Best Rangers are able to take advantage of the Pet’s Strength’s instead of complaining about the Pet’s Weaknesses. The Bad Rangers are the ones who don’t like to use the pet.

I’m not completely advocating removing the pet, sure I’d like it, but it’s not the only solution. As far as taking advantage of the pet, how do you propose you can do that if the enemy is constantly stealthing/blinking around? It’s all well and good to say “play to the pet’s strengths” but that is not always (and you might say not often) possible depending on the class you’re fighting, the terrain, or the pet AI itself.

The reason there are so many bad Rangers is the lack of attention to detail. Yes, pets are one reason there are bad Rangers. Not because of Rng or lack of control. Pet Ai is very predictable. One needs to only pay attention. Pets execute their big attack when off of cd. K9 will leap attack once then do their leap attack unless your about to be stomp then they will do it right away if it’s off cd.

Pets get dazed, stun and chilled. Players often try doing f2 attack when pets are affected by one of these effect then scream pets don’t work. F2 skills don’t interrupt current actions (at least not until the 15th). Learn the animation of your pet. The only Rng here is the player component Randomly press the f2 skill during different attack animations. The execution of the skill is the current attack animation + f2 activation time.

Playing a ranger since launch doesn’t make one a good ranger. Rangers who over come their own weaknesses while at the same time exploting the strengths of the other classes are the Ranger who are good.

Thieves has stealth but they are over confident because of it. I down most thieves while they are stealth. A lot of thieves will stealth at 50% health. If a thief uses sr a well time wolf fear will seal your victory. Barrage and path of scar a good as well. Fighting multiple targets main hand axe will still bonce off a stealth thief.

The quick way to do this is to play other classes. Learn their weakness from their point of view not their perceived weakness. Learn their rotations.

The bad thing about Rangers is we don’t have an inherent defense mechanism. The good thing about Rangers is we don’t have an inherent defense mechanism. At a base level have that inherent defense mechanism will make it easier while learning the class. Without this our youngling are battle field fodder. However, once you learn the class you will learn we have limited access to all the abilities the other classes use. This is good because being unpredictable will make you stronger.

While rangers have issues it is a good class. A bad Ranger blame it’s weakness on others (Anet). A good Great Ranger looks within and turns it into a strength.

On a side note Rangers have one of the best down states in the game: the fight isn’t over till you bleed out or get stomped.

we have more utilities to defeat a thief than most of the other classes. we got rapid fire that can track a thief on stealth and if traited signet of the stone is such a great defense against backstab and hs spam. as a zerker ranger, i may have weak defense but i still got 19k hp which is not bad. with only a guardian on my side, we won a 2v2 fight against hambow warriors.

and everybody knows how a spirit ranger is OP in pvp. if i’m gonna play that spec the only specs that can defeat me 1v1 are MM’s and condi-banner warriors. i could faceroll other specs like d/p thieves, bunker guardians, pu mesmers and so on.

The answer to OP’s statement is probably a lot simpler than that:
People come into the class with too many preconceptions, namely that the class is a range(r ) rather than a ranger

You only have to look at the sheer volume of people who accidentally call rangers hunters when talking about them to see the lense through which they are seeing the class; and that is just the people who are playing the class. Now step back and look at it from the perspective of a player who has not played the class; they see bearbows running about sucking, official blurb talking about their mastery of long range combat, and people complaining how the class is weak not to mention some less informed dungeon teams still stating “rangers need not apply”.

It’s no big surprise that few good players migrate into, or are retained by the class, especially in PvE.

What are you guys talking about? Im right here.

AEFA.9035:

What are you guys talking about? Im right here.

Operative word “many” – of course the other reason might simply be “because we haven’t legalised cloning yet, so there’s just the one of you”

Y’know, RNG haunts me for so long…
10% or 70% crit chance, it does not matter.
10% crit dmg or +Toughness, = same damages at GS.

Ryuujin.8236:

AEFA.9035:

What are you guys talking about? Im right here.

Operative word “many” – of course the other reason might simply be “because we haven’t legalised cloning yet, so there’s just the one of you”

Chrispy.5641:

The RNG factor just makes the Ranger a harder profession to master, and its not going away, because the Ranger is supposed to be a pet class, where you are effectively controlling the actions of 2 characters instead of 1. The Best Rangers are able to take advantage of the Pet’s Strength’s instead of complaining about the Pet’s Weaknesses. The Bad Rangers are the ones who don’t like to use the pet.

So we should work twice as hard for half the results.

Gotcha – makes perfect sense.

Really it does…………

I tend to think the effort:reward ratio is actually pretty good on Ranger.

You really need to know your stuff and play well to succeed. I don’t have as much of a problem with that, as I do the idea that the other classes don’t always seem work that way. On other classes I’ve played I’ve felt as though I could reach a certain effectiveness without really having to learn about the finer inner workings of the game. If anything should be changing; it’s that.

Honestly, if anything feels like it’s mucking up the concept of a ‘Good Ranger’ it’s that what that entails exactly is just about as clear as mud.

Chrispy.5641:

The RNG factor just makes the Ranger a harder profession to master, and its not going away, because the Ranger is supposed to be a pet class, where you are effectively controlling the actions of 2 characters instead of 1. The Best Rangers are able to take advantage of the Pet’s Strength’s instead of complaining about the Pet’s Weaknesses. The Bad Rangers are the ones who don’t like to use the pet.

It’s not that people don’t like the pet ( if you don’t then you shouldn’t be playing a ranger) I think it’s more people don’t like the unreliability of the pet. If they fixed the way the pet works and made it more reliable then I doubt any rangers would have issues. It’s because anet have said that they can’t (AKA don’t want to) fix pet pathing or mechanics that people just want it outright removed.

warriorjrd.8695:

Chrispy.5641:

The RNG factor just makes the Ranger a harder profession to master, and its not going away, because the Ranger is supposed to be a pet class, where you are effectively controlling the actions of 2 characters instead of 1. The Best Rangers are able to take advantage of the Pet’s Strength’s instead of complaining about the Pet’s Weaknesses. The Bad Rangers are the ones who don’t like to use the pet.

It’s not that people don’t like the pet ( if you don’t then you shouldn’t be playing a ranger) I think it’s more people don’t like the unreliability of the pet. If they fixed the way the pet works and made it more reliable then I doubt any rangers would have issues. It’s because anet have said that they can’t (AKA don’t want to) fix pet pathing or mechanics that people just want it outright removed.

Completely agree with this. I’m not saying remove the pet, I just want something I can count on to do x amount of damage.

warriorjrd.8695:

Chrispy.5641:

The RNG factor just makes the Ranger a harder profession to master, and its not going away, because the Ranger is supposed to be a pet class, where you are effectively controlling the actions of 2 characters instead of 1. The Best Rangers are able to take advantage of the Pet’s Strength’s instead of complaining about the Pet’s Weaknesses. The Bad Rangers are the ones who don’t like to use the pet.

It’s not that people don’t like the pet ( if you don’t then you shouldn’t be playing a ranger) I think it’s more people don’t like the unreliability of the pet. If they fixed the way the pet works and made it more reliable then I doubt any rangers would have issues. It’s because anet have said that they can’t (AKA don’t want to) fix pet pathing or mechanics that people just want it outright removed.

yet, the unreliability that is the core of the problem (for now), can be managed if you bother with it. Yet, the same “haters” that cries about it, does little or nothing to counter it either.

Prysin.8542:

warriorjrd.8695:

Chrispy.5641:

The RNG factor just makes the Ranger a harder profession to master, and its not going away, because the Ranger is supposed to be a pet class, where you are effectively controlling the actions of 2 characters instead of 1. The Best Rangers are able to take advantage of the Pet’s Strength’s instead of complaining about the Pet’s Weaknesses. The Bad Rangers are the ones who don’t like to use the pet.

It’s not that people don’t like the pet ( if you don’t then you shouldn’t be playing a ranger) I think it’s more people don’t like the unreliability of the pet. If they fixed the way the pet works and made it more reliable then I doubt any rangers would have issues. It’s because anet have said that they can’t (AKA don’t want to) fix pet pathing or mechanics that people just want it outright removed.

yet, the unreliability that is the core of the problem (for now), can be managed if you bother with it. Yet, the same “haters” that cries about it, does little or nothing to counter it either.

Please elaborate oh mighty prysin. Teach me the ways of getting my pet f2 to work constantly and how to make my pet hit moving targets.

Prysin.8542:

warriorjrd.8695:

Chrispy.5641:

The RNG factor just makes the Ranger a harder profession to master, and its not going away, because the Ranger is supposed to be a pet class, where you are effectively controlling the actions of 2 characters instead of 1. The Best Rangers are able to take advantage of the Pet’s Strength’s instead of complaining about the Pet’s Weaknesses. The Bad Rangers are the ones who don’t like to use the pet.

It’s not that people don’t like the pet ( if you don’t then you shouldn’t be playing a ranger) I think it’s more people don’t like the unreliability of the pet. If they fixed the way the pet works and made it more reliable then I doubt any rangers would have issues. It’s because anet have said that they can’t (AKA don’t want to) fix pet pathing or mechanics that people just want it outright removed.

yet, the unreliability that is the core of the problem (for now), can be managed if you bother with it. Yet, the same “haters” that cries about it, does little or nothing to counter it either.

But I shouldn’t have to “bother with” an unreliable pet in the first place. I love ranger, and will quit Gw2 entirely before I rage-switch to another class, but I’d like to see some changes to make the pet much more of a threat, rather than something that can only be counted on for one F2 skill (and even the F2 skill is a MAJOR tossup).

warriorjrd.8695:

Prysin.8542:

warriorjrd.8695:

Chrispy.5641:

The RNG factor just makes the Ranger a harder profession to master, and its not going away, because the Ranger is supposed to be a pet class, where you are effectively controlling the actions of 2 characters instead of 1. The Best Rangers are able to take advantage of the Pet’s Strength’s instead of complaining about the Pet’s Weaknesses. The Bad Rangers are the ones who don’t like to use the pet.

It’s not that people don’t like the pet ( if you don’t then you shouldn’t be playing a ranger) I think it’s more people don’t like the unreliability of the pet. If they fixed the way the pet works and made it more reliable then I doubt any rangers would have issues. It’s because anet have said that they can’t (AKA don’t want to) fix pet pathing or mechanics that people just want it outright removed.

yet, the unreliability that is the core of the problem (for now), can be managed if you bother with it. Yet, the same “haters” that cries about it, does little or nothing to counter it either.

Please elaborate oh mighty prysin. Teach me the ways of getting my pet f2 to work constantly and how to make my pet hit moving targets.

use the right pet for the right task. Read your pets animations and do not press F2 if you see an earthshaker coming.

Thats the very basic way of doing it.

Prysin.8542:

warriorjrd.8695:

Prysin.8542:

warriorjrd.8695:

Chrispy.5641:

The RNG factor just makes the Ranger a harder profession to master, and its not going away, because the Ranger is supposed to be a pet class, where you are effectively controlling the actions of 2 characters instead of 1. The Best Rangers are able to take advantage of the Pet’s Strength’s instead of complaining about the Pet’s Weaknesses. The Bad Rangers are the ones who don’t like to use the pet.

It’s not that people don’t like the pet ( if you don’t then you shouldn’t be playing a ranger) I think it’s more people don’t like the unreliability of the pet. If they fixed the way the pet works and made it more reliable then I doubt any rangers would have issues. It’s because anet have said that they can’t (AKA don’t want to) fix pet pathing or mechanics that people just want it outright removed.

yet, the unreliability that is the core of the problem (for now), can be managed if you bother with it. Yet, the same “haters” that cries about it, does little or nothing to counter it either.

Please elaborate oh mighty prysin. Teach me the ways of getting my pet f2 to work constantly and how to make my pet hit moving targets.

use the right pet for the right task. Read your pets animations and do not press F2 if you see an earthshaker coming.

Thats the very basic way of doing it.

You honestly think I meant how to time my F2 so it doesn’t get interrupted? I mean teach me the ways of getting to actually go off, when nothing is attacking it. In the scenario you just described the earthshaker wouldn’t interrupt anything because there’s a high likely hood the pet will just stand there and the F2 will go on CD. And using the right pet for the right job doesn’t address the point either. I can use a bear or a dog, they will both miss the same amount of hits on a moving target. It’s the coding and design of the pets that’s flawed, not just the way people use them.

Well you can play spirit ranger. But, I see where your coming from. Unfortunately, I think it was a while back on state of game J sharp said they don’t want pets to be user micro manageable because it is too “hard” for new players. After that I lost hope for balance in this game because there target is to make things easier, For example, warrior used to have huge risk vs reward about a year ago. They dumbed down the warrior class quite a bit. Until they realize dumbing down the game is counter productive rangers unfortunately will stay as the same old auto passive bot.

PS: I know certain power specs are not auto bots, but they are not even close to being viable.

Valdorian.2481:

Prysin.8542:

warriorjrd.8695:

Chrispy.5641:

The RNG factor just makes the Ranger a harder profession to master, and its not going away, because the Ranger is supposed to be a pet class, where you are effectively controlling the actions of 2 characters instead of 1. The Best Rangers are able to take advantage of the Pet’s Strength’s instead of complaining about the Pet’s Weaknesses. The Bad Rangers are the ones who don’t like to use the pet.

It’s not that people don’t like the pet ( if you don’t then you shouldn’t be playing a ranger) I think it’s more people don’t like the unreliability of the pet. If they fixed the way the pet works and made it more reliable then I doubt any rangers would have issues. It’s because anet have said that they can’t (AKA don’t want to) fix pet pathing or mechanics that people just want it outright removed.

yet, the unreliability that is the core of the problem (for now), can be managed if you bother with it. Yet, the same “haters” that cries about it, does little or nothing to counter it either.

But I shouldn’t have to “bother with” an unreliable pet in the first place. I love ranger, and will quit Gw2 entirely before I rage-switch to another class, but I’d like to see some changes to make the pet much more of a threat, rather than something that can only be counted on for one F2 skill (and even the F2 skill is a MAJOR tossup).

If you do decide to leave can I have your stuff.

But closer to topic so would it be going too far to make this generalized statement:
There are higher expectation of the performance on the part of a ranger player, than for some/most other profession for a similar view-able output. So the hypothetical “bad” ranger could in fact with a different profession (one with lower expenditure/output) be “decent” to “great” depending on that ratio.

Also slight shift how is it that we are still going, as a community, back to the definition of what ranger (the word, the profession, back and forth) means?

Personally, I don’t think we’re “that” underpowered. I think a couple minor buffs in different areas would help, but as much as some rangers want and we’d quickly become extremely op

Honestly, i think a lot of the problems stems from things other than class balance. For me personally, I think these are the problems

1. the pet. as I said, I don’t think it’s as bad as (/voluntary interruption to get rid of the kitten) some people make it out to be. but it would be nice to get some improvements. better AI, a bit more survivability in zerg fights (perhaps aoe immunity?), the ability to queue your pets attacks (e.g. now, if i send my wolf to attack, 9/10 times, he does a knockdown on his first attack. i’d like to be able to set it up so it does say, 3 normal attacks, a knockdown, then F2)

2.we think we’re underpowered. this is purely psychological, but, if you think you’re bad, or if you think you have a handicap, you’ll do worse than if you think you’re strong.

3.others think we’re underpowered. anytime i’m roaming with friends, and we run into another roaming party/zerg, guess where the thieves go? straight onto me. rangers are a typical “easy kill” to a lot of people, and therefore they will target you first. at least that’s what it feels like

I’d love an option to discard my pets, but gaining access to two bars (one for each pet) of three skills each, replacing the commands we now have.
http://imgur.com/MwA1GfA

You’d get to pick two bars from three possible ones. Offense, defense and support. You’d be able to toggle between the two bars like you’d toggle your pets, granting you skills to compensate for the lack of pet damage and utility it might provide.

This could help the ranger out with roles it might not normally fullfil and give the profession new appeal in PvE, WvW and SPvP.

The Problem: I could imagine Empathy in Beastmastery being a slight problem, as you wouldn’t get anything there. A different approach would be one bar, replacing two pets and Empathy grants your skills a slight boost.

But closer to topic so would it be going too far to make this generalized statement:
There are higher expectation of the performance on the part of a ranger player, than for some/most other profession for a similar view-able output. So the hypothetical “bad” ranger could in fact with a different profession (one with lower expenditure/output) be “decent” to “great” depending on that ratio.

I’d agree with this. To be honest, I really like that the class is harder to play than many (if you play it well that is). I enjoy and want a challenge! My problem stems from the fact that in my mind, I can only be so competitive as long as the pets are so unreliable.

ITheNormalPerson.9275:

Personally, I don’t think we’re “that” underpowered. I think a couple minor buffs in different areas would help, but as much as some rangers want and we’d quickly become extremely op

Honestly, i think a lot of the problems stems from things other than class balance. For me personally, I think these are the problems

1. the pet. as I said, I don’t think it’s as bad as (/voluntary interruption to get rid of the kitten) some people make it out to be. but it would be nice to get some improvements. better AI, a bit more survivability in zerg fights (perhaps aoe immunity?), the ability to queue your pets attacks (e.g. now, if i send my wolf to attack, 9/10 times, he does a knockdown on his first attack. i’d like to be able to set it up so it does say, 3 normal attacks, a knockdown, then F2)

2.we think we’re underpowered. this is purely psychological, but, if you think you’re bad, or if you think you have a handicap, you’ll do worse than if you think you’re strong.

3.others think we’re underpowered. anytime i’m roaming with friends, and we run into another roaming party/zerg, guess where the thieves go? straight onto me. rangers are a typical “easy kill” to a lot of people, and therefore they will target you first. at least that’s what it feels like

A good suggestion with queuing abilities, I’d be for it 100%. I also agree about being targeted. Sadly, I don’t see that changing until we get some more good rangers out there to change popular opinion!

Add to the suggestion, signet of the beastmaster needs to be made baseline. It’s poor design that the ranger is the only profession who has to invest 30 points into a tree in order to be given the “choice” of active/passive signet use that other professions get baseline. Make SotB enhance signets like Written in Stone for elementalists.

Pyriall.1683:

Add to the suggestion, signet of the beastmaster needs to be made baseline. It’s poor design that the ranger is the only profession who has to invest 30 points into a tree in order to be given the “choice” of active/passive signet use that other professions get baseline. Make SotB enhance signets like Written in Stone for elementalists.

One of the biggest things hindering rangers, not only are our pets a pain to deal with (yes it takes a painful amount of time to master using your pet) but when you do use them right, a lot of the things you can do with it are in the name of killing the pet. We could have a good modification of trait and skills where the pet contributes without having to be sacrificed in the process.

awge.3852:

Pyriall.1683:

Add to the suggestion, signet of the beastmaster needs to be made baseline. It’s poor design that the ranger is the only profession who has to invest 30 points into a tree in order to be given the “choice” of active/passive signet use that other professions get baseline. Make SotB enhance signets like Written in Stone for elementalists.

One of the biggest things hindering rangers, not only are our pets a pain to deal with (yes it takes a painful amount of time to master using your pet) but when you do use them right, a lot of the things you can do with it are in the name of killing the pet. We could have a good modification of trait and skills where the pet contributes without having to be sacrificed in the process.

If you’re looking to run a true power build, it is mandatory to take SoTB to compete with thieves. There’s no flexibility there. That seems to be the problem, they think your pet SHOULD be a huge help and require management through abilities like SoTB, but in reality it only hinders the players more.

awge.3852:

One of the biggest things hindering rangers, not only are our pets a pain to deal with (yes it takes a painful amount of time to master using your pet) but when you do use them right, a lot of the things you can do with it are in the name of killing the pet. We could have a good modification of trait and skills where the pet contributes without having to be sacrificed in the process.

The abilities that “kill your pet” are a way to further utilize the healthpool of tankier pets to your own advantage.

• Empathic Bond and Protect Me work well with high health, high defense pets like bears, but are weaker with squishier pets like cats.
• +30% crit damage and Sic ’Em work well with high crit-chance, high damage pets like cats… but are weaker with bears.

Some traits are just better with certain pets than others.