Guild Wars 2

(TLDR at the end)
As many rangers know, pets are meant to be a rather significant part of the ranger’s DPS; that is made clear when comparing the weapon skills we can use compared to the other classes’. In itself, I feel that is a really good concept for a pet that’s our profession mechanic!
I do not remember the exact % of our damage they are supposed to represent, but I will take a guess that it is around 15-20%.

With that number in mind, I’d like to have you take a look at one pet in particular, the new Smokescale pet. Most rangers I’ve talked to felt that the pet did a LOT of damage.

But is it really THAT much?

The main offender is without a doubt it’s Unrelenting Assault, the same skill Revenants get. Indeed, it doesn’t take much testing to realize that it can deal 8-12k damage in that single multi-hit attack.
That attack, however, has 24 seconds cooldown, with a 2 seconds casting time (I’m assuming the CD starts rolling after the skill ends, but would require additional testing).
Another characteristic is the multi-hit part of the attack, which divides it’s damage between multiple targets if there are multiple available. It stays true to the single-target-dps nature of the Ranger, while also being able to hit multiple targets for lower damage (think “Lead The Wind”, to make arrows pierce; instead of being lower damage, it is just harder to line them up with the arrows).

An easy comparison would be “Rapid Fire”, Longbow 2 on ranger. It has a 10 seconds cooldown, dealing 6-8k damage without Might, depending on critical hits (Marauder amulet in PvP on a light golem). Which means 18-24k damage in 30 seconds. With Quick Draw, however, it is possible to do that skill about 5 times in 26seconds, with another weapon in the 2nd weapon slot. That skill alone therefore can reach 30-40k damage in 26seconds. In average, that is 35k Damage with that skill alone.
Adding the damage of auto-attacks in-between (or Barrage, LB5), it adds up to around 40-45k damage for the longbow in that 26seconds period.
Adding with the other weapon’s damage (I’ll assume 3-4k/2seconds for 10seconds using a Mainhand-sword’s auto-attack), we reach a total of 55-65k damage in 26 seconds, for an average of 60k on a SINGLE TARGET, which CAN be moving.

Adding the pet’s auto-attacks during that period, which are about 1.5k/2seconds, as long as the target isn’t running (we know how much pets miss their targets when they move); assuming 1/2 attacks actually hit, that is 1.5k/4 seconds on a moving target, for ~20seconds, so 6,5k. On a stationnary target (when does that ever happen in PvP? And even in the little raid time I’ve tested, enemies were moving around a fair bit), we could assume it is 13k.

TLDR:
ALL OF THESE ARE WITHOUT MIGHT CALCULATION
Smokescale vs a Single Target over 26seconds:

6-10k Unrelenting + 6,5-13k auto-attacks/other skills
Total: 12,5-23k damage, depending on target’s movement and crit. hits

Ranger player vs a Single Target over 26 seconds:

40-45k longbow + ~15-20k second weapon (sword Auto was used for that number)
Total: 55-65k damage on single target, regardless of movement

Smokescale therefore does ~22.5% of the ranger’s DPS in that same time. With the 15-20% number I’ve estimated, the Smokescale could afford being nerfed by about 10%, but anything more than that would land in the “excessive nerf” zone.

EDIT FOR THE COMPLAINERS, COPY-PASTED FROM MY 2ND POST:
On-topic, I created this thread because as a Ranger, the sheer damage difference between the smokescale and other pets felt huge. As much as I’d love for things to stay the way they are FOR THE SMOKESCALE, I believe such a high damage shouldn’t be exclusive to one pet. I said I was fine with the a 10% nerf, FOR THE SMOKESCALE.
I will also state, right here and right now, that this power level is something I would like for all “Damage Dealer” pets to be able to achieve.

2nd Edit:
To be able to achieve, not in the best-case-scenarios like 25might +25Vuln AND TheEnemyIsn’tMoving, but off-the-bat, like those numbers I wrote about the smokescale.

I didnt c any nerf request for Smokescale , where is this coming from?

LughLongArm.5460:

I didnt c any nerf request for Smokescale , where is this coming from?

Somebody heard Ranger had something that wasn’t completely useless.

LughLongArm.5460:

I didnt c any nerf request for Smokescale , where is this coming from?

“the Smokescale could afford being nerfed by about 10%, " if the pet is ok , there is no need to even Suggest this.

Don’t worry, the QQ will be exponentially higher when it is able to be used in pvp and people get mad the Ranger will have a smoke field on a 20s cd. I would take this pet if it did 0 damage, so they can reduce damage if they want(but shouldn’t), that is how badly I want the smoke field.

Levetty.1279:

LughLongArm.5460:

I didnt c any nerf request for Smokescale , where is this coming from?

Somebody heard Ranger had something that wasn’t completely useless.

Oh was Roy on twitter again? Kappa

Sandzibar.5134:

Levetty.1279:

LughLongArm.5460:

I didnt c any nerf request for Smokescale , where is this coming from?

Somebody heard Ranger had something that wasn’t completely useless.

Oh was Roy on twitter again? Kappa

LoL
15 char

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

LughLongArm.5460:

I didnt c any nerf request for Smokescale , where is this coming from?

“the Smokescale could afford being nerfed by about 10%, " if the pet is ok , there is no need to even Suggest this.

this.

which leads me to believe OP actually does want it nerfed. Anet almost exclusively over-nerfs…..

there’s been no uprising over the power of smoke skale, so pls leave it be.

No, smokescale is fine.

Mirage.6754:

Smokescale therefore does ~22.5% of the ranger’s DPS in that same time. With the 15-20% number I’ve estimated, the Smokescale could afford being nerfed by about 10%, but anything more than that would land in the “excessive nerf” zone.

This is the kind of asinine logic that prevents the Ranger from ever having nice things…

Do we need to sound the alarm over rangers having something nice again.
How dare they.

Still a longer cooldown than Mind Wrack… What?

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

[…]
compaired to other pets the damage is quite even when a wolf can Leap/charge for 8-12k buffed up in a single attack vs 10 in 3 attacks chain which is avoidable and deals the same amount as a fully buffed wolf. risk vs reward you risk the whole attack missing but if the first hit hits, your rewarded with Multiple target hits. […]

To achive this dmg with a wolf or other pets, you have to use buffs/dmg modifiers and those attacks can be easily avoided by moving. The smokescale hits for 10k+ and you have to do absolutely nothing for this dmg, and it is way harder to avoid, because of the tracking nature of UA. With buffs (Signet/Sic’Em/Might/Fury …) the smokescale can hit for 30k+ …
This is definitely not the same as the other pets, smokescale is currently the most powerful pet (on top of the dmg it offers a smoke field, cc and decent survability).

Seriously, where are these people coming from calling for nerfs like this? Mirage, why do you even suggest this? You aren’t a frequent poster on the ranger forum, not a frequent poster on the forums at all, so why do you even suggest in the first place that the pet can “afford” a 10% damage nerf?

Threads like these makes no sense to me.

So not being a frequent forum poster immediately makes any feedback I give worthless?
Really?

On-topic, I created this thread because as a Ranger, the sheer damage difference between the smokescale and other pets felt huge. As much as I’d love for things to stay the way they are FOR THE SMOKESCALE, I believe such a high damage shouldn’t be exclusive to one pet. I said I was fine with the a 10% nerf, FOR THE SMOKESCALE.

I will also state, right here and right now, that this power level is something I would like for all “Damage Dealer” pets to be able to achieve.
Not a nerf without anything else in return; Rangers DESERVE nice things, and to me, a Smokescale-like damage (-5 or 10%, MAYBE) on damage-dealer-focused pets would be like a birthday present from someone I didn’t know: unexpected, but incredibly appreciated (though kinda creepy in that scenario ;P)

Mirage.6754:

So not being a frequent forum poster immediately makes any feedback I give worthless?
Really?

On-topic, I created this thread because as a Ranger, the sheer damage difference between the smokescale and other pets felt huge. As much as I’d love for things to stay the way they are FOR THE SMOKESCALE, I believe such a high damage shouldn’t be exclusive to one pet. I said I was fine with the a 10% nerf, FOR THE SMOKESCALE.

I will also state, right here and right now, that this power level is something I would like for all “Damage Dealer” pets to be able to achieve.
Not a nerf without anything else in return; Rangers DESERVE nice things, and to me, a Smokescale-like damage (-5 or 10%, MAYBE) on damage-dealer-focused pets would be like a birthday present from someone I didn’t know: unexpected, but incredibly appreciated (though kinda creepy in that scenario ;P)

Mirage.6754:

So not being a frequent forum poster immediately makes any feedback I give worthless?
Really?

On-topic, I created this thread because as a Ranger, the sheer damage difference between the smokescale and other pets felt huge. As much as I’d love for things to stay the way they are FOR THE SMOKESCALE, I believe such a high damage shouldn’t be exclusive to one pet. I said I was fine with the a 10% nerf, FOR THE SMOKESCALE.

I will also state, right here and right now, that this power level is something I would like for all “Damage Dealer” pets to be able to achieve.
Not a nerf without anything else in return; Rangers DESERVE nice things, and to me, a Smokescale-like damage (-5 or 10%, MAYBE) on damage-dealer-focused pets would be like a birthday present from someone I didn’t know: unexpected, but incredibly appreciated (though kinda creepy in that scenario ;P)

well how was it tested so far we only have Results for active combat use , most likely including 25Vun and atleast 20might on the pet so ether way its compairable to Wolf even if it managed to crit 10k on its first then 2-3k on its 2nd and 3rd with “buffs”

if the smoke scale Turns around to face you at any direction than i’d count that was hard to avoid or impossible to avoid but its got the same base mechanic for all pets , a 45degree Aiming arch left to right with Aiming time at the end of the cast it will attack the appointed direction so if you dodge too early it will still aim at the location where you finished the dodge because of that 2second cast .

so its fine unless someone finds hard Evidence that a Smokescale with “Buffs” equal to pets with the Same STATS, is more than 20% stronger than a Single Wolf charge so that would mean a Smoke scale would have to deal more than a total of 12k over 3 hits vs a single hit over all for active combat use one simple dodge will stop that still , just like how people dodge a wolfs leap KD though they have a 2second window to avoid the smokescale.

when balancing there is a Margin to meet and the margin is no where out of the window compaired to other pets so its not OP unless we have that Hard evidence proving its stronger with “buffs” than a Wolf with “Buffs” a single attack vs a 3 hit chain of equal damage or slightly higher due to its cast time because a longer cast time is easier to avoid no matter what people say.

Have you even tested the smokescale? UA deals way more dmg than the canide’s leaps and the smokescale teleports to the target and follows it everywhere with this attack, so it doesn’t even need a “set up” to land. Of course it can be countered by dodges and other defensive mechanics, but it is still more powerful than other pets.

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

Mirage.6754:

myOwnPost

well how was it tested so far we only have Results for active combat use , most likely including 25Vun and atleast 20might on the pet so ether way its compairable to Wolf even if it managed to crit 10k on its first then 2-3k on its 2nd and 3rd with “buffs”

if the smoke scale Turns around to face you at any direction than i’d count that was hard to avoid or impossible to avoid but its got the same base mechanic for all pets , a 45degree Aiming arch left to right with Aiming time at the end of the cast it will attack the appointed direction so if you dodge too early it will still aim at the location where you finished the dodge because of that 2second cast .

so its fine unless someone finds hard Evidence that a Smokescale with “Buffs” equal to pets with the Same STATS, is more than 20% stronger than a Single Wolf charge so that would mean a Smoke scale would have to deal more than a total of 12k over 3 hits vs a single hit over all for active combat use one simple dodge will stop that still , just like how people dodge a wolfs leap KD though they have a 2second window to avoid it.

when balancing there is a Margin to meet and the margin is no where out of the window compaired to other pets so its not OP unless we have that Hard evidence proving its stronger with “buffs” than a Wolf with “Buffs” a single attack vs a 3 hit chain of equal damage or slightly higher due to its cast time because a longer cast time is easier to avoid no matter what people say.

I’ve done my test to test it without might/vuln, as I stated in my post; I HAVE reached 15k+ damage easily on a target with 25vuln, and without having too much might (with my smokescale) ; my point was that I have NEVER, EVER seen my wolf leap at someone for over 6k damage without any buffs. To my discredit, maybe I wasn’t paying enough attention; however, I have had my smokescale (in Aggressive-mode) instantly teleport around and and do 3/4 of a normal enemy in PvE…when that enemy stroke it from behind. No start-up time, only a 2 seconds of invincible channel. Barely had time to shoot an arrow that the smokescale killed it.
A wolf would’ve stood there, immobile, for 1,5s before attacking, and potentially missing because the enemy was moving (a hylek of some sort).

If all that difference in power is due to the AI/cast-time on pets, then by all means, correct our old pets! I want to have my pet be the mobile, reliable skill user to be…exactly that, instead of missing every few attacks simply because the target was moving.
I would much rather Smokescale be nerfed by 5-10% and other damage pets brought in line (be it through AI or Power buffing, preferably both), than to have to tell every new ranger player “Use _______ for DPS, the rest is worthless”.

I don’t think it needs a nerf what so ever. I feel like what could be more useful is a buff or change to the vanilla pets. They are in dire need of their own identities and strengths. The condi add on is great but at the same time I feel like they are all still missing that special something.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Have you even tested the smokescale? UA deals way more dmg than the canide’s leaps and the smokescale teleports to the target and follows it everywhere with this attack, so it doesn’t even need a “set up” to land. Of course it can be countered by dodges and other defensive mechanics, but it is still more powerful than other pets.

i’ve seen it enough in Pvp to know people don’t Avoid it or keep a eye on it for its Stealth effect , and yes it does require set up the target needs 25Vun and with in 750 yards plus consistant Mobility CC to allow those attacks to hit so even if the first does hit and cause that Opening strike 6-10k first strike the rest are Equal to normal damage 2-3k which would then total its 15+k , the whole point of HoT too was to introduce Unavoidable Attacks to make dodge that little less effective too .

if all you have to say its hard to fight , it could just well need a Better Animation tied to the attack Showing you its conceled itself very clearly so you can react to it.

its not that hard to avoid a pet while kiting too , it sounds like the Intial hit of its concel is throwing people off which has nothing to do with its Damage Balance.

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

i’ve seen it enough in Pvp to know people don’t Avoid it or keep a eye on it for its Stealth effect , and yes it does require set up the target needs 25Vun and with in 750 yards plus consistant Mobility CC to allow those attacks to hit so even if the first does hit and cause that Opening strike 6-10k first strike the rest are Equal to normal damage 2-3k which would then total its 15+k , the whole point of HoT too was to introduce Unavoidable Attacks to make dodge that little less effective too .

No, you don’t need vuln, cc, opening strike or whatever (Of course it would increase the dmg further, but it is not neccessary). And where did they said, they want to introduce unavoidable dmg in PvP?

While I agree that the damage is pretty high, I think that it would be cool if the smoke scale tradeoff was high damage while being really squishy. Of course, it has the f2 to help some in survivability, but I think it should be easy to focus down otherwise. This would add sort of a risk-reward to the pet, and add some counter-play for opponents.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

i’ve seen it enough in Pvp to know people don’t Avoid it or keep a eye on it for its Stealth effect , and yes it does require set up the target needs 25Vun and with in 750 yards plus consistant Mobility CC to allow those attacks to hit so even if the first does hit and cause that Opening strike 6-10k first strike the rest are Equal to normal damage 2-3k which would then total its 15+k , the whole point of HoT too was to introduce Unavoidable Attacks to make dodge that little less effective too .

No, you don’t need vuln, cc, opening strike or whatever (Of course it would increase the dmg further, but it is not neccessary). And where did they said, they want to introduce unavoidable dmg in PvP?

and this is why we need Screen shot Evidence not just a combat log pick from some random guy that claims it needs a nerf or even suggests a Nurf..
and yes they do warroir beserker unblockable attacks ect its not clear to see but these slight changes are effecting the Meta moving away from all out Damage + active defences or else why would of they improved support through healing specs or these boon changes , it makes Glassy play styles more risky.

ps it was more unavoidable damage for HoT , HoT is the Game and that means every mode .

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

i’ve seen it enough in Pvp to know people don’t Avoid it or keep a eye on it for its Stealth effect , and yes it does require set up the target needs 25Vun and with in 750 yards plus consistant Mobility CC to allow those attacks to hit so even if the first does hit and cause that Opening strike 6-10k first strike the rest are Equal to normal damage 2-3k which would then total its 15+k , the whole point of HoT too was to introduce Unavoidable Attacks to make dodge that little less effective too .

No, you don’t need vuln, cc, opening strike or whatever (Of course it would increase the dmg further, but it is not neccessary). And where did they said, they want to introduce unavoidable dmg in PvP?

and this is why we need Screen shot Evidence not just a combat log pick from some random guy that claims it needs a nerf or even suggests a Nurf..
and yes they do warroir beserker unblockable attacks ect its not clear to see but these slight changes are effecting the Meta moving away from all out Damage + active defences or else why would of they improved support through healing specs or these boon changes , it makes Glassy play styles more risky.

ps it was more unavoidable damage for HoT , HoT is the Game and that means every mode .

Here goes the Screenshots, both against Jungle Boars in Verdant Brink.
I am including a screenshot of my specializations, unchanged through the best. Also including the right side of my bar to show that no buffs were used.

As you can see, the damage difference is obvious for all attacks.

On an added note, I don’t see what else can convince you that my “wish for nerfs” is mostly to balance pets out, seeing as a buff to all damaging pets (which is also one of my wishes) to equal a smokescale – 5~10% is a wish for a HUGE buff. If you still wish to hide behind the fact that “I do no post often”, “I am a random guy asking for that”, then I won’t try to convince you otherwise any further.

Please tell me you are not complaining in a PvE context (the screens have me concerned). I’d like to see all that crazy math and see the Smokescale hit in a PvP context (WvW would work).

As if Anet starts balancing around PvE…we have serious, serious issues.

Gotejjeken.1267:

Please tell me you are not complaining in a PvE context (the screens have me concerned). I’d like to see all that crazy math and see the Smokescale hit in a PvP context (WvW would work).

As if Anet starts balancing around PvE…we have serious, serious issues.

Don’t worry; I have only chosen PvE to be able to use the 2 pets, seeing at the Smokescale (and all the new pets) can’t be used in PvP! I took the same enemy type in the same zone to compare apples to apples :P
Therefore, I’d love to do that PvP math with the smokescale…but I can’t ;(

Mirage.6754:

So not being a frequent forum poster immediately makes any feedback I give worthless?
Really?

On-topic, I created this thread because as a Ranger, the sheer damage difference between the smokescale and other pets felt huge. As much as I’d love for things to stay the way they are FOR THE SMOKESCALE, I believe such a high damage shouldn’t be exclusive to one pet. I said I was fine with the a 10% nerf, FOR THE SMOKESCALE.

I will also state, right here and right now, that this power level is something I would like for all “Damage Dealer” pets to be able to achieve.
Not a nerf without anything else in return; Rangers DESERVE nice things, and to me, a Smokescale-like damage (-5 or 10%, MAYBE) on damage-dealer-focused pets would be like a birthday present from someone I didn’t know: unexpected, but incredibly appreciated (though kinda creepy in that scenario ;P)

your input isn’t “worthless”, but the conclusion you came to shows no nerf is needed….yet you asked for a nerf?

honestly, what is more likely:

1) they slightly nerf smokeskale, and buff a few other pets to their level
2) they nerf smokeskale to the level of all other “dps pets”

you know it’s #2….so even starting your thread is detrimental to ranger

You seem to be forcing upon me the idea that “I want nerfs despite whatever else”.
Yet if I take my own stats, the “lowest” for a smokescale would be ~12,5k damage over 26seconds; taking 10% off (1,25k) brings us to ~11,25k.
11,25k average vs the ranger’s 60k average: 18,75%. THAT is in line with my 15-20%.
And in subsequent posts, I’ve been talking about a 5-10% nerf; a 5% nerf would bring it very close to the 20% mark, which was my “max” amount.

Therefore, mathematically, 5-10% DOES bring the smokescale in line with my own 15-20% statement. Don’t force ideas without calculating, doesn’t add anything to the conversation. I wanted to respect the limits I set myself, therefore I put in the appropriate numbers.
I care for balance, therefore “over 20%” was over my high limit; “OP”. I’m not a game tester, I can not test these changes myself and have all the exact numbers. Bear with that fact.
Now before this post goes 100% into self-defense, I’ll reply to the constructive part of your previous comment:
1) Since this is what I proposed, ahoy! Let’s hope this happens.
2) Definitely a possibility. However, I think they balanced the smokescale this way for 2 possible reasons:
a) Compensate for the Druid’s staff lack of DPS and to allow it to go in more supportive gear without COMPLETELY gimping it’s DPS (the bad result being that Ranger CAN use the pet too, and therefore SHOULD in order to deal the most DPS)

b) Simply to be useful in the expansion, as the monsters ARE stronger than what we are used to. That results in a power creep, no matter how you look at it.

My conclusion? If ArenaNet wants DPS-Pets to still be taken seriously, they need to bring them in line with the Smokescale (and the 5-10% nerf is if they really think the Smokescale is TOO OP OMFG NERF PLOXX like the forum threads against rangers usually say ;P)
I LOVE the smokescale, the reliability is something we’ve simply never had before. The lightning wyvern’s F2 responsiveness is high up there in reliability, too, which makes me happy that it’s not just an exception. The other pets just need to offer that same reliability, without stupid things like 3 seconds of cast time for 5 stacks of might (Looking at you Jungle Stalker).

Mirage.6754:

(TLDR at the end)
As many rangers know, pets are meant to be a rather significant part of the ranger’s DPS; that is made clear when comparing the weapon skills we can use compared to the other classes’. In itself, I feel that is a really good concept for a pet that’s our profession mechanic!
I do not remember the exact % of our damage they are supposed to represent, but I will take a guess that it is around 15-20%.

With that number in mind, I’d like to have you take a look at one pet in particular, the new Smokescale pet. Most rangers I’ve talked to felt that the pet did a LOT of damage.

But is it really THAT much?

The main offender is without a doubt it’s Unrelenting Assault, the same skill Revenants get. Indeed, it doesn’t take much testing to realize that it can deal 8-12k damage in that single multi-hit attack.
That attack, however, has 24 seconds cooldown, with a 2 seconds casting time (I’m assuming the CD starts rolling after the skill ends, but would require additional testing).
Another characteristic is the multi-hit part of the attack, which divides it’s damage between multiple targets if there are multiple available. It stays true to the single-target-dps nature of the Ranger, while also being able to hit multiple targets for lower damage (think “Lead The Wind”, to make arrows pierce; instead of being lower damage, it is just harder to line them up with the arrows).

An easy comparison would be “Rapid Fire”, Longbow 2 on ranger. It has a 10 seconds cooldown, dealing 6-8k damage without Might, depending on critical hits (Marauder amulet in PvP on a light golem). Which means 18-24k damage in 30 seconds. With Quick Draw, however, it is possible to do that skill about 5 times in 26seconds, with another weapon in the 2nd weapon slot. That skill alone therefore can reach 30-40k damage in 26seconds. In average, that is 35k Damage with that skill alone.
Adding the damage of auto-attacks in-between (or Barrage, LB5), it adds up to around 40-45k damage for the longbow in that 26seconds period.
Adding with the other weapon’s damage (I’ll assume 3-4k/2seconds for 10seconds using a Mainhand-sword’s auto-attack), we reach a total of 55-65k damage in 26 seconds, for an average of 60k on a SINGLE TARGET, which CAN be moving.

Adding the pet’s auto-attacks during that period, which are about 1.5k/2seconds, as long as the target isn’t running (we know how much pets miss their targets when they move); assuming 1/2 attacks actually hit, that is 1.5k/4 seconds on a moving target, for ~20seconds, so 6,5k. On a stationnary target (when does that ever happen in PvP? And even in the little raid time I’ve tested, enemies were moving around a fair bit), we could assume it is 13k.

TLDR:
ALL OF THESE ARE WITHOUT MIGHT CALCULATION
Smokescale vs a Single Target over 26seconds:

6-10k Unrelenting + 6,5-13k auto-attacks/other skills
Total: 12,5-23k damage, depending on target’s movement and crit. hits

Ranger player vs a Single Target over 26 seconds:

40-45k longbow + ~15-20k second weapon (sword Auto was used for that number)
Total: 55-65k damage on single target, regardless of movement

Smokescale therefore does ~22.5% of the ranger’s DPS in that same time. With the 15-20% number I’ve estimated, the Smokescale could afford being nerfed by about 10%, but anything more than that would land in the “excessive nerf” zone.

EDIT FOR THE COMPLAINERS, COPY-PASTED FROM MY 2ND POST:
On-topic, I created this thread because as a Ranger, the sheer damage difference between the smokescale and other pets felt huge. As much as I’d love for things to stay the way they are FOR THE SMOKESCALE, I believe such a high damage shouldn’t be exclusive to one pet. I said I was fine with the a 10% nerf, FOR THE SMOKESCALE.
I will also state, right here and right now, that this power level is something I would like for all “Damage Dealer” pets to be able to achieve.

2nd Edit:
To be able to achieve, not in the best-case-scenarios like 25might +25Vuln AND TheEnemyIsn’tMoving, but off-the-bat, like those numbers I wrote about the smokescale.

Pet is supposed to be 30% of our DPS… So what is the problem?

Mirage.6754:

My conclusion? If ArenaNet wants DPS-Pets to still be taken seriously, they need to bring them in line with the Smokescale (and the 5-10% nerf is if they really think the Smokescale is TOO OP OMFG NERF PLOXX like the forum threads against rangers usually say ;P)

This isn’t going to happen and you know it full well.

Drawing attention to the Smokescale’s power is only going to result in nerfs once enough people complain about it.

It happened with cat mauls and Jaguar ‘Stalk’ and it will happen again.

I’d love to see a post/info/link/video/anything that shows ANet saying it’s supposed to be 30%, as I haven’t found it anywhere else (I know the weapons’ DPS is about 30% lower, but where else?)
If the 30% is true, then what I calculated should show EVIDENTLY that the pets’ DPS is NOT HIGH ENOUGH across any and all pet species, and that even the smokescale’s average (~18k in what I calculated) doesn’t reach the full 30%. The first post in a forum is important, yes, but with this info, we could say without a doubt that other pets NEED A BUFF.
To any dev who stumbles upon this post, please, let the maths speak, and change things; make the pets important, more than “Press F4 then F2 to interrupt with a taunt”. 30% might seem huge, but our weapon skills are kitten by that huge 30%. Make us pet owners proud of having a valuable ally, as the ideology of the class is, and has been since launch.

i dont really get why they put a bleed on the smoke scale

Mirage.6754:

I’d love to see a post/info/link/video/anything that shows ANet saying it’s supposed to be 30%, as I haven’t found it anywhere else (I know the weapons’ DPS is about 30% lower, but where else?)
If the 30% is true, then what I calculated should show EVIDENTLY that the pets’ DPS is NOT HIGH ENOUGH across any and all pet species, and that even the smokescale’s average (~18k in what I calculated) doesn’t reach the full 30%. The first post in a forum is important, yes, but with this info, we could say without a doubt that other pets NEED A BUFF.
To any dev who stumbles upon this post, please, let the maths speak, and change things; make the pets important, more than “Press F4 then F2 to interrupt with a taunt”. 30% might seem huge, but our weapon skills are kitten by that huge 30%. Make us pet owners proud of having a valuable ally, as the ideology of the class is, and has been since launch.

I think I’ve seen they specify a % themselves somewhere a long time ago, but that requires a lot of digging. I do, however, found this:

“The only reason Rangers lose damage is because the AI is not currently what it ought to be. That doesn’t necessarily mean that we should completely redesign the Ranger and get rid of the pet.” – Allie Murdock

If you read through the actual conversation. A player was asking why our class mechanic takes 30% of the ranger’s overall DPS away while classes like warriors gets a 15% bonus DPS from actually using their class mechanic.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/cdi/Collaborative-Development-Ranger-Profession/page/46#post3732248

My dear Sir

you are trying hard to make your post appear as a smart well tested aspect of the ranger pet mechanics specifically in the DPS domain, but the only impression i am left with is “OP is a moron”.

You Sir can afford a nerf in the posting privilege aspect of GW2.

Smokescale is strong because it’s actually one of those pets (the only one?) that can get its highest damage skill to actually hit. All pets would be “OP” like that if they didn’t have the “stop while attacking” problem.

Its too early to call for nerfs. There are so many new things the elite specializations can do, it basically redefined what “OP” is. I think we should wait till there is a proper baseline and decide from there.

kiwituatara.6053:

Mirage.6754:

I’d love to see a post/info/link/video/anything that shows ANet saying it’s supposed to be 30%, as I haven’t found it anywhere else (I know the weapons’ DPS is about 30% lower, but where else?)
If the 30% is true, then what I calculated should show EVIDENTLY that the pets’ DPS is NOT HIGH ENOUGH across any and all pet species, and that even the smokescale’s average (~18k in what I calculated) doesn’t reach the full 30%. The first post in a forum is important, yes, but with this info, we could say without a doubt that other pets NEED A BUFF.
To any dev who stumbles upon this post, please, let the maths speak, and change things; make the pets important, more than “Press F4 then F2 to interrupt with a taunt”. 30% might seem huge, but our weapon skills are kitten by that huge 30%. Make us pet owners proud of having a valuable ally, as the ideology of the class is, and has been since launch.

I think I’ve seen they specify a % themselves somewhere a long time ago, but that requires a lot of digging. I do, however, found this:

“The only reason Rangers lose damage is because the AI is not currently what it ought to be. That doesn’t necessarily mean that we should completely redesign the Ranger and get rid of the pet.” – Allie Murdock

If you read through the actual conversation. A player was asking why our class mechanic takes 30% of the ranger’s overall DPS away while classes like warriors gets a 15% bonus DPS from actually using their class mechanic.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/cdi/Collaborative-Development-Ranger-Profession/page/46#post3732248

Thanks a lot for the research! It sure seems like they want to solve the problem of the pets’ AI, and therefore I too think we should wait and see what happens with that.

PS To SpitAlot: Please take these personnal attacks out of the forum. This is a feedback thread of sorts, so, to quote the devs, Please Post CONSTRUCTIVE feedback here.