That may just be a bad example, because there are thieves out there (particularly jumper I think, maybe) who dedicate their entire build at times to solo contesting and holding far point all game (d/p s/d build), and are fairly good at forcing the teamfight off of mid and back to their home node in order to deal with the thief.
But my friend is a point holding thief and he’s very good at holding it….
I wish more people would have this kind of confidence in the Ranger..
Have you never read any of my posts? I’m the guy whose always trying to push some off the wall “kitten the meta!” Build… Keep in mind, I think ranger only needs a tiny few tweaks to be in a good spot in sPvP (mostly F2 needs to go off WHEN I PRESS IT, not when the pet kittening feels like it), and our utilities need some love, in PvE we aren’t bad, but no one is, and in WvW were just second rate, which doesn’t mean we can’t do anything but that everyone can do it better.
only thing i dont get about this class is the lack of burst damage. even a melee class name warrior has killshot that does loads of damage compare to rapid fire (and easier).
That may just be a bad example, because there are thieves out there (particularly jumper I think, maybe) who dedicate their entire build at times to solo contesting and holding far point all game (d/p s/d build), and are fairly good at forcing the teamfight off of mid and back to their home node in order to deal with the thief.
But my friend is a point holding thief and he’s very good at holding it….
I wish more people would have this kind of confidence in the Ranger..
I have an extreme amount of confidence in rangers. They just aren’t “there” yet. But as far as conditions go, rangers, when running some combination of axe/dagger sword/torch have the highest damage output per survivability in the game.
Single target damage wise, the longbow is probably one of, if not, the best 1200 range weapon in the game, at 1000+ range. Shortbow and sword as well, they both have some of the highest time to kill rates in the game.
Rangers now only have the 3rd highest regen per second in the game (I think warrior is probably number 1, and guard number 2), but the are right in between wars and guardians, having more evasiveness than a warrior or guardian, and more base hp than a guardian.
Rangers are great are picking off single targets from a distance. If you slot piercing arrows, they basically have to get out of your range, or else you can just keep poking at them and doing more than ignorable damage for most classes and people that aren’t in a super organized group. It also breathes potential for people to revive an old guild wars 1 idea, RSpike. 5 Full Berserker Rangers, 1 with spotter, the rest with piercing, all targeting the same target for a group spike/burst: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNBjYDxAx6xe2ffaFyE7hh4PjA-jUxAYLAyCQyrIasF1ioxqcJiqBA-w
Warhorn first, then everybody can just auto attack the same target, or, if people are getting too close, alternate rapid fires and/or barrages to scare them away. But imagine, all 5 rangers are going to have an 86% chance to hit a 3-4k damage autoattack AND proc sigil of fire. It would be insta-death if the group could could the coordination down.
Will all good things being said, I have come to find some of my own limitations with the class, which is the very reason why I post on the forums; in case they are just personal limitations that I can overcome, and not limitations that the class faces. Lack of reliable AoE for instance. Maybe the devs only wanted our AoE to be traps, I don’t know. But it is a huge factor on how effectively the class plays. Another factor is group support. Rangers don’t do much by way of providing boons or clearing conditions, which would indicate that rangers are meant to be more of a damage class, which would be fine, except that when you have all other things equal, you take the class with greater AoE potential, because AoE in this game has never been balanced against single target damage to make single target attacks stronger against a single target than AoE attacks, like the devs said they would back in December’s State of the Game.
cont’d:
To get into some of the more detailed things, Skirmishing is an absolutely terrible trait. I couldn’t even figure out what to choose as the 3 traits in the build link I posted, besides Quickdraw, because nothing in that trait tree helps power builds at all, except the base bonuses for adding points to it. That is a HUGE opportunity cost, and I would honestly argue that it isn’t worth it, which is why I never run more than 20 in skirmishing (I would run 25, but I always have 30 in Wilderness for Condi Clears, and then 20 in Marks, so yeah). But even then, the only thing that increases damage is Sharpened Edges, which can be looked at as a 5-10% damage increase when it procs and the bleed tics. It’s also the best damage increasing option there is, so there’s also that.
The there is spirits. Their functions are honestly pretty great, but they are too easy to kill in large group, and not beneficial enough by themselves, which means generally, spirits are better for organized groups of people, and even then, the ranger can’t go mob surfing, and if a DPS guard/war (you know, the ones with spammable gap closers) looks at you, the spirits may as well just be on recharge if they are able to stick to you for 5 seconds. Utilities in general too though. The trait for Sharpening Stone is better than the utility slot, and the entire survival skillset is lacking in any sort of cohesion, or trait bolstered property, to make them worthwhile in a build dedicated to them. Shouts are the same way, and are pretty not good as far as what their effects are. Search and Rescue is a very slow rez, and other classes can have up a person, or even groups of people, in like 3 seconds. Just make Search and Rescue “sacrifice” the pet, and bring up the person with however much health the pet had. Sic’ Em would be fine in a PvP (vs PvE) environment of you had a little more control over what the pet did, and it had some smarter AI to track enemies better (I watch my pet and NPCs in particular run back and forth at each other like they’re trying to joust at times, its ridiculous). It’s just hard putting that much investment into something that isn’t being directly controlled by you. Guard does nothing useful except for a 30 Nature Magic build. Protect Me is the only worthwhile shout, and I honestly can say nothing bad about it.
Weapon skills. Particularly, the longbow and shortbow. They need to gain some sort of interesting feature or skill rotation, in order to make them less about rolling face on keyboard because only arrows are going to come out anyways, and more interesting, or interactive. Poison Volley (or whatever shortbow 2 is called) is the biggest thing on the shortbow that needs to change. Take rapid fire of the longbow, add poison to it with a 1s torment or a 2s bleed when flanking to it, and throw it on the shortbow. Leave 3 as it is. Make the duration for crippling shot double duration if its flanking. Boom, a more interesting weapon the capitalizes on its already unique dynamic. As for longbow, either reduce the range to 2 stages on the longbow, below 600 range and above 600 range, or scrap the auto attack function as it is now altogether, move the ranged based attack to the new number 2 slot, add damage, make it below and above 600 range, and have an added effected “if used in stealth, this attack immobilize for x seconds.” Boom, more interesting longbow with a unique mechanic that has better survival because it can play keep away better.
The Pet. There are already a million good suggestions on this forum, I’m not going to say mine because it will just start a chain idea of suggesting things, but plain and simple; it should be obvious that the pet needs reworking, because it doesn’t even work or it isn’t a fluid mechanic across all of the games content. Make the pet do something interesting, allow us to build different roles for it and have trait investment determine the amount of damage they do, do something other than letting them be a tacked on source of DPS that accounts for so much damage output which is lost due to environmental restrictions, or the scale of the battle, or because they can’t dodge and get 1 shotted by crazy 1 shot mechanics.
That’s everything I think.
We need more interplay between “Combo Fields”
The Pets also need to create more of them. So do Spirits…
Our Horn blast finisher needs to work on Fire fields again.
We also need the shields generated by combos to not just last longer, but utilize the Buff-Duration & Condition-Duration stat modifier in their time calculation.
We need the BONUS damage dealt by combos to be modified by the condition stat so that people finally have a reason to use Carrion set in PvE.
We need the Healing stat to not just increase our Spring, but also healing it provide when sloshing through it with Combo & Blast finishers…. (triple it for lunges esp.)
We need our gear stats in general, to be shared with the pet so that it also gains these increases with the Combo system.
Sad to say we dont bring a lot to the table when it comes to wvw and dungeons our F2 skills are laughable at best, our pets are maybe effective if they dont die, and if we trait so our pets dont die, then we can do no damage. Essentially we are guardians without heavy armor, Warriors without heavy armor-damage and elementalists without providing our team anything useful that is not provided by someone else (besides fury) . Bring your pesonality and your knowledge of other classes, lead your team dont die, and gradually we may learn to be a bit respected. I think some of the best theory crafters I know in this game are rangers, due to the limited viable builds that we have we are constantly looking for ways to improve ourselves and find limitation in other builds. Keep your chins up but things will not get better. Anet is satisfied that we have the (crappy) tools that we need to survive.
We need more interplay between “Combo Fields”
The Pets also need to create more of them. So do Spirits…Our Horn blast finisher needs to work on Fire fields again.
- It worked initially when they changed it to a Blast finisher, but then somehow got patched right back out even though it DOES work on Ice field/trap.
- I don’t know if it was supposed to work with Poison fields, …but it should just for consistency.
We also need the shields generated by combos to not just last longer, but utilize the Buff-Duration & Condition-Duration stat modifier in their time calculation.
We need the BONUS damage dealt by combos to be modified by the condition stat so that people finally have a reason to use Carrion set in PvE.
We need the Healing stat to not just increase our Spring, but also healing it provide when sloshing through it with Combo & Blast finishers…. (triple it for lunges esp.)
We need our gear stats in general, to be shared with the pet so that it also gains these increases with the Combo system.
What are you rambling about? The horn DOES work as a blast in ALL fields, fire gives AoE 3stacks of like 20s Might, Poison gives AoE weakness, and the healing stat DOES buff our finishers in a water field.
Combo Field Creator = stats boost that field
Combo Field Finisher = stats boost that finish.
This is getting to the point where I want to stop supporting this game with my money if there are no concrete improvements with this profession in the near future. I am sick of being seen by other players in this game as 3 class profession because of the lack of caring I feel the ANet dev’s towards this class. Anet designs a profession around pets but the pets are more useless then helpful. Its been over a year now and there has only been minor to little improvements to the pet mechanic. I feel Anet rather focus on balancing this game around only Guardians, Elementalists, Warrriors and Necromancers and basically have left us to rot in the land of mediocrity and soon will be just a laughing stock of this game because the Ranger’s pet mechanic is just awful.
Read the boards!! Rangers are not happy!!!
Fix our F2 abilities and pet mechanics.
Fix the current bugs to our weapons, pets and utility skills
Where is this trait overhaul this profession desperately needs
Add more tooltips to skills abilities so we don’t get the wrong ideaThis lack of communication is getting to the point that if you plan on surprising us with a profession overhaul stay something. Give us some hope that you understand the issues with this profession and that there are measures being take to improve the Ranger. It is going to a point I rather not play this game and I am looking to others when I have been a loyal support of this game since head start.
Thank you
Anyone who thinks that f2 works hasn’t needed it and then not had it pop during THAT fight.
There are far more things wrong with Ranger – everyone else can chronicle all the silliness that has been visited on what should be an honorable and powerful character who has friend’s even in the animal KINGDOM – and if OUR pets can’t talk why in GOSH DARN HECK can the REST OF THE ANIMALS TALK?
It’s not cartoon-land, but we need more attention to Rangers as one of the most connected to the “world” here since THEY can talk to animals but “not really” according to ANET.
We need more interplay between “Combo Fields”
The Pets also need to create more of them. So do Spirits…Our Horn blast finisher needs to work on Fire fields again.
- It worked initially when they changed it to a Blast finisher, but then somehow got patched right back out even though it DOES work on Ice field/trap.
- I don’t know if it was supposed to work with Poison fields, …but it should just for consistency.
We also need the shields generated by combos to not just last longer, but utilize the Buff-Duration & Condition-Duration stat modifier in their time calculation.
We need the BONUS damage dealt by combos to be modified by the condition stat so that people finally have a reason to use Carrion set in PvE.
We need the Healing stat to not just increase our Spring, but also healing it provide when sloshing through it with Combo & Blast finishers…. (triple it for lunges esp.)
We need our gear stats in general, to be shared with the pet so that it also gains these increases with the Combo system.
What are you rambling about? The horn DOES work as a blast in ALL fields, fire gives AoE 3stacks of like 20s Might, Poison gives AoE weakness, and the healing stat DOES buff our finishers in a water field.
Combo Field Creator = stats boost that field
Combo Field Finisher = stats boost that finish.
It does tend to bug out and not register the blast finisher quite often though. I’m not sure how common this is across classes but I have heard guardians complain about their hammer’s not triggering fields as well. I usually wait about a second after the field is cast to avoid triggering the blast before the game establishes there is a field there.
Kas, I know the Ranger profession in and out. I have cheerleadered how good this profession has been for months. When this game came out 1 year ago I spent the first month as a Mesmer and switched to the Ranger and never looked back. I know Rangers are ok in PvE but for me the PvE content is a joke and sometimes the player quality as well. In spvp/tpvp, the whole condition meta and lack of different maps styles just turns me off.
In WvW, the last place of fun in this game now the current hardcore meta is only Guardians, Elementalists, Warriors, Necromancers and Mesmers. There is no place for this profession in the eyes of the community because of lackluster and redundancy the Ranger skills have compared to the other professions above and yes our pet mechanic are worthless in that environment. What happens when Anet start to adding larger group oriented PvE content? Guild leaders will start analyzing each professions contributions to the group, and they will come to the same conclusions the WvW community has.
You’re really just emphasizing what I said, when you say; “there is no place for this profession in the eyes of the community” and “guild leaders will start analyzing each professions contributions to the group”. The problem is not so much the Ranger, as it is the community. And ArenaNet can’t change peoples state of mind, only we as Ranger players can, by making the best of what we got. When guild leaders analyze the current meta, they judge it based on how professions are played, not how their skills work. If something is great, no one cares why it is great, only that it works. And the Ranger does work on some level. But like most other professions, it can’t do everything.
The things is, most guild leaders will try out builds themselves to make decisions. A good leader isn’t going to go on some forum to see if the ranger is any good they are going to crunch numbers themselves, try out a few builds or even just look at our skills to decide.
This is even more true now that BL’s are almost devoid of anyone on a ranger who isn’t devoted to the class and knows how to play it well. I see far more kitten poor players on necros, warriors and guardians than Rangers now by far and it has done nothing to curb their popularity.
That might be the case for some guild leaders, but even then, I’ll bet you that their decision is still going to be largely based on community popularity and conversations. If everyone says “the Ranger sucks and doesn’t offer anything to a group”, then why would a guild leader make an effort to try and change that? Only the Ranger community can really change it.
Actually, I see a lot of Ranger players in my borderlands. The problem is, most Rangers aren’t very confident players, meaning I very rarely see a Ranger that stands out in the crowd. For instance, by running first into battle, standing their ground when facing opponents, or fighting 2v1. It’s very easy to play “lazy” when playing a Ranger, because that’s how you play in PvE. And the problem is, the Ranger is one of the hardest professions to play in WvW, because you can’t just swing a hammer around like a Warrior does, or throw up a bunch of boons like the Guardian does, or go into stealth like a Thief does, or go into Death Shroud like the Necromancer does. As a Ranger, you have to be constantly moving, and use your snare skills to keep distance to your foes, which is completely opposite to how you play a Ranger in PvE.
You can’t go wading into battle if you need to keep your foes at a distance. They are obviously conflicting combat strategies. You can’t complain about how Ranger’s aren’t playing like tanked out warriors/guardians and then say we need to keep our distance and play fluidly to work best.
If that is really how you feel then your issue is with the class mechanics and not how people choose to play.
What are you rambling about? The horn DOES work as a blast in ALL fields, fire gives AoE 3stacks of like 20s Might,
No it doesn’t, Fire Trap did for a day or two, but then a patch removed it again
What are you rambling about? The horn DOES work as a blast in ALL fields, fire gives AoE 3stacks of like 20s Might,
No it doesn’t, Fire Trap did for a day or two, but then a patch removed it again
It’s gotta be a bug with fire trap NOT the horn itself, because just a few minutes ago I comboed in my ele friends lava font with it.
What are you rambling about? The horn DOES work as a blast in ALL fields, fire gives AoE 3stacks of like 20s Might,
No it doesn’t, Fire Trap did for a day or two, but then a patch removed it again
i just run a dungeon with fire trap and warhorn – was working as intended. please explain what exactly you mean. also keep in mind that resulting combofield will be the one placed earlier, so if you used healing spring then fire field then blast you will get aoe heal as a result not aoe might.
What are you rambling about? The horn DOES work as a blast in ALL fields, fire gives AoE 3stacks of like 20s Might,
No it doesn’t, Fire Trap did for a day or two, but then a patch removed it again
Not really. It works fine.
my 2 copper. I have been playing Ranger since release, so much I actually rolled a second one because my Azura was unsightly and I decided I needed a better carrier for a legendary if I was gonna spend the time on a piece. instead of a mini legendary due to the Azura model scale.
Heres a video of my Ranger in WvW with the current build, running Ranged Longbow bunker style build with condition damage and survival gear. Ranger for 2440 played hrs…
I can tell you, I am fully happy with the ranger AS IS. Pet is a lil bumbly, but saved my kitten in the 2v1 in this vid.
my 2 copper. I have been playing Ranger since release, so much I actually rolled a second one because my Azura was unsightly and I decided I needed a better carrier for a legendary if I was gonna spend the time on a piece. instead of a mini legendary due to the Azura model scale.
Heres a video of my Ranger in WvW with the current build, running Ranged Longbow bunker style build with condition damage and survival gear. Ranger for 2440 played hrs…
I can tell you, I am fully happy with the ranger AS IS. Pet is a lil bumbly, but saved my kitten in the 2v1 in this vid.
Not going to say a word…
my 2 copper. I have been playing Ranger since release, so much I actually rolled a second one because my Azura was unsightly and I decided I needed a better carrier for a legendary if I was gonna spend the time on a piece. instead of a mini legendary due to the Azura model scale.
Heres a video of my Ranger in WvW with the current build, running Ranged Longbow bunker style build with condition damage and survival gear. Ranger for 2440 played hrs…
I can tell you, I am fully happy with the ranger AS IS. Pet is a lil bumbly, but saved my kitten in the 2v1 in this vid.
Not going to say a word…
I will for you… your video does a good job showing off just how inconsequential the Ranger class can be in WvW. Thanks for this. It’s a toss up between this one and the spirit ranger owning face while clicking his buttons with his mouse that best demonstrates why this class is in most of need of change.
And I don’t mean to say you’re a bad player. Just that plinking away at people 300 damage a second and bursting for 3k damage over 5 seconds isn’t contributing a single thing to WvW other than being a body for the 5 man AE cap the enemy throws at your zerg.
I don’t think you quite understand the build, the healing power keeps a team on their feet for a extended duration. The root with the condition damage can stop a rushing zerg in its tracks, the cripple on the barrage does the same to slow the force so that my team can eat them. Raw dmg builds are fun, but not playing to benefit a large team of players.
So my thoughts are you build your class for solo pvp performance values in large scale team play.
Its your game you play it the way you want, but before you cut a build idea down look at the application, instead of just raw dps. Healing power with sprig is massive for healing a huge party, the cc’s to immobilize the other force so the raw dps can mow over them. The solo capabilities vs 2 thiefs in one section and they both run because they cannot down the build.
Theres plenty there you might have missed. Just sayin’
I don’t think you quite understand the build, the healing power keeps a team on their feet for a extended duration. The root with the condition damage can stop a rushing zerg in its tracks, the cripple on the barrage does the same to slow the force so that my team can eat them. Raw dmg builds are fun, but not playing to benefit a large team of players.
So my thoughts are you build your class for solo pvp performance values in large scale team play.
Its your game you play it the way you want, but before you cut a build idea down look at the application, instead of just raw dps. Healing power with sprig is massive for healing a huge party, the cc’s to immobilize the other force so the raw dps can mow over them. The solo capabilities vs 2 thiefs in one section and they both run because they cannot down the build.Theres plenty there you might have missed. Just sayin’
Uhhhh…. You’re wasting your condition damage. Like, entirely. That’s 700 some odd points that are being added towards a stat that you’re only using when you throw torch or use a skill that’s easily escape-able and dodge-able on a 150 (120 traited) second cooldown.
Even with wanting to play a support build, the stat allocation doesn’t support anything. It’s being wasted. That’s 700 more power or precision you could have to make barrage actually matter, and your attacks actually matter. AND you’d still be able to root and pressure with entangle; the difference would be that now, the people you are supporting won’t have to pick up your end of the damage.
I’m only trying to be helpful here, because while you had the best intentions, you aren’t going to convince anybody of anything, especially build viability, when you are trying to do it through showing off a build that has a fairly high investment in improving conditions and almost zero condition output.
Nobody here is telling you not to enjoy what you’re doing. They’re just telling you that you could be doing it better.
I don’t think you quite understand the build, the healing power keeps a team on their feet for a extended duration. The root with the condition damage can stop a rushing zerg in its tracks, the cripple on the barrage does the same to slow the force so that my team can eat them. Raw dmg builds are fun, but not playing to benefit a large team of players.
So my thoughts are you build your class for solo pvp performance values in large scale team play.
Its your game you play it the way you want, but before you cut a build idea down look at the application, instead of just raw dps. Healing power with sprig is massive for healing a huge party, the cc’s to immobilize the other force so the raw dps can mow over them. The solo capabilities vs 2 thiefs in one section and they both run because they cannot down the build.Theres plenty there you might have missed. Just sayin’
Uhhhh…. You’re wasting your condition damage. Like, entirely. That’s 700 some odd points that are being added towards a stat that you’re only using when you throw torch or use a skill that’s easily escape-able and dodge-able on a 150 (120 traited) second cooldown.
Even with wanting to play a support build, the stat allocation doesn’t support anything. It’s being wasted. That’s 700 more power or precision you could have to make barrage actually matter, and your attacks actually matter. AND you’d still be able to root and pressure with entangle; the difference would be that now, the people you are supporting won’t have to pick up your end of the damage.
I’m only trying to be helpful here, because while you had the best intentions, you aren’t going to convince anybody of anything, especially build viability, when you are trying to do it through showing off a build that has a fairly high investment in improving conditions and almost zero condition output.
Nobody here is telling you not to enjoy what you’re doing. They’re just telling you that you could be doing it better.
Though I would love to spend my evening explaining in great detail how this build works in its fullest and why I think its an effective choice for my playstyle and defend my ideas and build, viability and mechanics.
I will simply stop now, as this will just continue to be picked apart as it does on forums. Thanks to those who posted. And good night on this thread.
I have to agree with OP. After spending all my hours and 1000s of gold on my Ranger, I given up. Most of the time you enter a dungeon is like OH a Ranger!
Anet seriously need to buff our bow damage.
Having to use sword to max dps is dumb, if I want to do that I make a warrior or guardian.
my 2 copper. I have been playing Ranger since release, so much I actually rolled a second one because my Azura was unsightly and I decided I needed a better carrier for a legendary if I was gonna spend the time on a piece. instead of a mini legendary due to the Azura model scale.
Heres a video of my Ranger in WvW with the current build, running Ranged Longbow bunker style build with condition damage and survival gear. Ranger for 2440 played hrs…
I can tell you, I am fully happy with the ranger AS IS. Pet is a lil bumbly, but saved my kitten in the 2v1 in this vid.
WvW is a problem, but the far bigger problem is in high end PvE. They love to put in new content that forces you to have good situational awareness (which pets don’t), good positioning (which pets don’t), and well-timed blocking and dodging (see a pattern yet?). Hell, even in WvW, 2v1 was never the problem. Rangers do pretty well on their own. The problem is, their team play is kitten and in large groups pets die almost instantly (and then you’re down to 70% of your DPS, on a class with poor AoE performance in the best of situations).
Bottom line: if you want to claim that rangers are fine, at least address the areas in which they’re perceived as weak.
Pets dying is a huge problem in WvW when our main profession mechanic is centered around the pet. We have some the the best F2-functions that can make us super useful if we can land them just like other professions F-functions versus large groups.
F2 functions that are AoE base need to be ground targets.
Reduce the pet revival to 30 second
Optional:
Make a new F-function to position the pet just like “Guard”
No point having to write the same post twice.
The harsh reality is, classes like Warrior, Guardian, Ele, Thief are the building blocks for any half decent group, they will always be first and foremost while classes like the Ranger will get the scraps. I don’t like it and I don’t agree with it but, it is the sad reality. Wouldn’t it be nice if they seperated them into groups of 4 and each month they rotate their focus on those classes alone. At least they would be forced to look at more then the top 4.
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