Guild Wars 2

Quite well, in fact. I just ran some numbers on Ranger DPS and a 10/25/5/30/0 sword/warhorn Ranger with a feline or bird pet and max might and vuln and consumable buffs can maintain 8.1k DPS on a target while flanking it. 5.3k of that is from the ranger himself, while 2.8k is from the pet. That is super high, especially given that everyone’s favorite Axe/GS warrior only gets about 7k/s under the same circumstances, and only if he can get the target against a wall so Whirlwind Attack hits multiple times.

For reference if you throw in the warrior banners and Frost Spirit, the ranger gets as much as 9.3k/s, which is the highest sustained DPS number I have seen outside of engineer kit refinement spam, which doesn’t actually work anymore.

The moral of the story is, rangers can pump out some serious DPS, if you build them properly. Running bows or axes, on the other hand, severely gimps their DPS and gives them a bad name in dungeons. Hell, I have to admit that until I actually looked into it, I thought rangers were bad DPS too.

I’d love to see some documentation for these results. If you’re running with warriors who stack vulnerability for you, why would you run warhorn anyways?

Zenith.7301:

I’d love to see some documentation for these results. If you’re running with warriors who stack vulnerability for you, why would you run warhorn anyways?

Mostly for the fury. You only need one warrior for all the banners, so if you have a warhorn ranger you can get fury to permanent uptime without having to do the banner pickup trick or having to burn Warbanner before a fight. It’s not like there’s a whole lot else the ranger needs from his offhand, anyway. You can take dagger if you want, but it’s only really for the extra evade. Otherwise burn will be taken care of by your guardian and vulnerability can be handled by your engineer, assuming you have one.

I will post detailed calculations later if you are interested, but I was on my way out for now, so it’ll have to wait just a bit.

War horns 4 does A LOT of damage when you have berserker on and then the might and fury buff are nice for your group and your pet I’d imagine.

Have you compared it against greatsword? I’ve been doing some testing on berserker gear since greatsword gets better the higher your power and crit damage relative to other weapons. Its auto is subpar baseline so it needs a lot of compensation from how stats stack with it+Maul.

GS is less damage than Sword, however GS isn’t far behind it and has more sustain from what I’ve seen

How do you get full stacks of might and vulnerability on a ranger? Or are you saying that you need support from a group to get that dps? You don’t specifically state either way, but your post seems to suggest you’re solo doing this sort of damage.

And just a wild assumption, but I’ll guess that whatever you were attacking didn’t move around alot.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Quite well, in fact. I just ran some numbers on Ranger DPS and a 10/25/5/30/0 sword/warhorn Ranger with a feline or bird pet and max might and vuln and consumable buffs can maintain 8.1k DPS on a target while flanking it. 5.3k of that is from the ranger himself, while 2.8k is from the pet. That is super high, especially given that everyone’s favorite Axe/GS warrior only gets about 7k/s under the same circumstances, and only if he can get the target against a wall so Whirlwind Attack hits multiple times.

For reference if you throw in the warrior banners and Frost Spirit, the ranger gets as much as 9.3k/s, which is the highest sustained DPS number I have seen outside of engineer kit refinement spam, which doesn’t actually work anymore.

The moral of the story is, rangers can pump out some serious DPS, if you build them properly. Running bows or axes, on the other hand, severely gimps their DPS and gives them a bad name in dungeons. Hell, I have to admit that until I actually looked into it, I thought rangers were bad DPS too.

On paper, yes.

In practice, this is inherently problematic. The 1h sword keeps you from dodging, which is a serious liability in hard content. If you’re running CoF P1 or something like that, you’re probably fine using it, but something like high level fractals is a bad idea.

Also, unless the new buffs to pets have made a serious change to pet survivability, using a squishy pet like a jaguar or raven isn’t viable on a lot of content.

Zenith.7301:

Have you compared it against greatsword? I’ve been doing some testing on berserker gear since greatsword gets better the higher your power and crit damage relative to other weapons. Its auto is subpar baseline so it needs a lot of compensation from how stats stack with it+Maul.

Common misconception. The only thing that differentiates weapons is their base damage output and any relevant traits, and whether they’re 1h or 2h. Greatsword does NOT scale better with power than any other weapon in terms of direct DPS. If you double your power, you double your damage. That’s true for any weapon since the damage formula is [weapon strength] x [power] x [skill coefficient] / [armor].

In terms of overall DPS, the greatsword is okay but it’s pretty far behind the Sword. It will always be about 20% less DPS than sword no matter what, even with the +5% greatsword damage trait. That means that if you’re dealing 5.3k before banners and spirit, you’ll get about 4.2k on GS. This actually isn’t as bad as it sounds since your pet’s DPS needs to be factored in too, so you’re looking 7k vs. 8.1k, which is about 14% less. I would still recommend the 1h sword if you can manage it but GS is also a viable option if the root is getting you killed in harder content.

Here are my numbers for calculations, as promised:

Power = 1095 from gear + 120 from ruby orbs + 100 from traits + 875 from might = 2190 power = *239% base damage*
Precision = 728 from gear + 300 + traits + 84 from orbs + 70 from food = +1182 precision = +56% crit chance

Crit chance = 4% base + 56% from precision + 5% from Sigil of Accuracy 20% from fury = 85% crit chance
Crit damage = 50% base + 62% from gear + 12% from orbs + 30% from traits + 10% from food = +154%
Crit modifier = [crit chance] x [crit damage] = *140%*

Other boosts = 10% from Steady Focus + 10% from Hunter’s Tacts + 5% from Bountiful Hunting + 5% from Sigil of Force + 10% from mob-specific potion + 25% from vulnerability = *58.4%*

Damage: 202, 202, 235 over 1.8s = 355 base damage per second, multiply by all of the above and you get 5296 total.

That’s all well and good…until your spirit dies.

Look, there are simply to many ‘ifs’ for a ranger to really work well as a damage dealer in the type of build you’re outlining

- IF you can survive and dodge without getting stuck in 1h sword animation
– IF your squishy glass cannon pet that can’t dodge and doesn’t know to go around red circles when called back survives the full boss encounter
– IF the boss doesn’t touch your spirit until you can recast it
– IF you and your group stay in range of your spirit for the entire boss fight

Meanwhile, a warrior/thief/etc. can just focus on dpsing and dodging when necessary. Many classes like thief and mesmer have abilities on their weapons that allow them to evade damage while boosting their dps (Flanking Strike and Blurred Frenzy) whereas the ranger evade attack is lower dps and condition based.

The issue has never been that rangers lack dps. We lack burst and hard cc, which against players, means we have a hard time applying our dps.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Zenith.7301:

Have you compared it against greatsword? I’ve been doing some testing on berserker gear since greatsword gets better the higher your power and crit damage relative to other weapons. Its auto is subpar baseline so it needs a lot of compensation from how stats stack with it+Maul.

Common misconception. The only thing that differentiates weapons is their base damage output and any relevant traits, and whether they’re 1h or 2h. Greatsword does NOT scale better with power than any other weapon in terms of direct DPS. If you double your power, you double your damage. That’s true for any weapon since the damage formula is [weapon strength] x [power] x [skill coefficient] / [armor].

In terms of overall DPS, the greatsword is okay but it’s pretty far behind the Sword. It will always be about 20% less DPS than sword no matter what, even with the +5% greatsword damage trait. That means that if you’re dealing 5.3k before banners and spirit, you’ll get about 4.2k on GS. This actually isn’t as bad as it sounds since your pet’s DPS needs to be factored in too, so you’re looking 7k vs. 8.1k, which is about 14% less. I would still recommend the 1h sword if you can manage it but GS is also a viable option if the root is getting you killed in harder content.

Here are my numbers for calculations, as promised:

Power = 1095 from gear + 120 from ruby orbs + 100 from traits + 875 from might = 2190 power = *239% base damage*
Precision = 728 from gear + 300 + traits + 84 from orbs + 70 from food = +1182 precision = +56% crit chance

Crit chance = 4% base + 56% from precision + 5% from Sigil of Accuracy 20% from fury = 85% crit chance
Crit damage = 50% base + 62% from gear + 12% from orbs + 30% from traits + 10% from food = +154%
Crit modifier = [crit chance] x [crit damage] = *140%*

Other boosts = 10% from Steady Focus + 10% from Hunter’s Tacts + 5% from Bountiful Hunting + 5% from Sigil of Force + 10% from mob-specific potion + 25% from vulnerability = *58.4%*

Damage: 202, 202, 235 over 1.8s = 355 base damage per second, multiply by all of the above and you get 5296 total.

He means some weapons do more or less of their damage in condition damage greatsword has a bleed but it does mostly physical damage, I think.

Indoles.1467:

The issue has never been that rangers lack dps. We lack burst and hard cc, which against players, means we have a hard time applying our dps.

We lack burst that doesn’t rely on a pet.
Birds and jaguar make up the vast majority of a ranger spike in TPvP.

It just means the class sucks against aoe enemies and in group fights and the class has a tendency to go bunker more than not.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Zenith.7301:

Have you compared it against greatsword? I’ve been doing some testing on berserker gear since greatsword gets better the higher your power and crit damage relative to other weapons. Its auto is subpar baseline so it needs a lot of compensation from how stats stack with it+Maul.

Common misconception. The only thing that differentiates weapons is their base damage output and any relevant traits, and whether they’re 1h or 2h. Greatsword does NOT scale better with power than any other weapon in terms of direct DPS. If you double your power, you double your damage. That’s true for any weapon since the damage formula is [weapon strength] x [power] x [skill coefficient] / [armor].

In terms of overall DPS, the greatsword is okay but it’s pretty far behind the Sword. It will always be about 20% less DPS than sword no matter what, even with the +5% greatsword damage trait. That means that if you’re dealing 5.3k before banners and spirit, you’ll get about 4.2k on GS. This actually isn’t as bad as it sounds since your pet’s DPS needs to be factored in too, so you’re looking 7k vs. 8.1k, which is about 14% less. I would still recommend the 1h sword if you can manage it but GS is also a viable option if the root is getting you killed in harder content.

Here are my numbers for calculations, as promised:

Power = 1095 from gear + 120 from ruby orbs + 100 from traits + 875 from might = 2190 power = *239% base damage*
Precision = 728 from gear + 300 + traits + 84 from orbs + 70 from food = +1182 precision = +56% crit chance

Crit chance = 4% base + 56% from precision + 5% from Sigil of Accuracy 20% from fury = 85% crit chance
Crit damage = 50% base + 62% from gear + 12% from orbs + 30% from traits + 10% from food = +154%
Crit modifier = [crit chance] x [crit damage] = *140%*

Other boosts = 10% from Steady Focus + 10% from Hunter’s Tacts + 5% from Bountiful Hunting + 5% from Sigil of Force + 10% from mob-specific potion + 25% from vulnerability = *58.4%*

Damage: 202, 202, 235 over 1.8s = 355 base damage per second, multiply by all of the above and you get 5296 total.

I use the greatsword because of the projectile block and burst. Sustained against a single target the sword might seem nice, but in cof for example autoattacking acolytes will take longer than just walloping one for a 6k crit Maul.

Same principle applies in grawl shaman fractal 48+. Those elementals need to die FAST.

I do adore the playstyle of the mainhand sword, but I find that in general the greatsword gives me greater applications in many circumstances.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

The moral of the story is, rangers can pump out some serious DPS, if you build them properly. Running bows or axes, on the other hand, severely gimps their DPS and gives them a bad name in dungeons. Hell, I have to admit that until I actually looked into it, I thought rangers were bad DPS too.

The problem is that most people rolled Ranger to be a “ranged” DPS with a pet. And has already been said, Thiefs, Wars, and Guardians do better melee DPS and bring much better buffs and CC.

Dahkeus.8243:

That’s all well and good…until your spirit dies.

Look, there are simply to many ‘ifs’ for a ranger to really work well as a damage dealer in the type of build you’re outlining

- IF you can survive and dodge without getting stuck in 1h sword animation
– IF your squishy glass cannon pet that can’t dodge and doesn’t know to go around red circles when called back survives the full boss encounter
– IF the boss doesn’t touch your spirit until you can recast it
– IF you and your group stay in range of your spirit for the entire boss fight

Meanwhile, a warrior/thief/etc. can just focus on dpsing and dodging when necessary. Many classes like thief and mesmer have abilities on their weapons that allow them to evade damage while boosting their dps (Flanking Strike and Blurred Frenzy) whereas the ranger evade attack is lower dps and condition based.

This, and more in WvW encounters. Your pet in the OP is doing 35% of your damage… that pet would barely even make it to it’s target in a group encounter. Your spirit would die the second it saw light of day too…

The point of this post is that Rangers can do amazing damage under ideal circumstances against stationary targets at extremely short range. That doesn’t translate into much real world functionality. Honestly, as long as 35-40% of our damage comes from something we can’t control we will never be on par with other classes.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Zenith.7301:

I’d love to see some documentation for these results. If you’re running with warriors who stack vulnerability for you, why would you run warhorn anyways?

Mostly for the fury. You only need one warrior for all the banners, so if you have a warhorn ranger you can get fury to permanent uptime without having to do the banner pickup trick or having to burn Warbanner before a fight. It’s not like there’s a whole lot else the ranger needs from his offhand, anyway. You can take dagger if you want, but it’s only really for the extra evade. Otherwise burn will be taken care of by your guardian and vulnerability can be handled by your engineer, assuming you have one.

I will post detailed calculations later if you are interested, but I was on my way out for now, so it’ll have to wait just a bit.

If you have a Warrior running banners, a Warrior can keep a minute of Fury, Swiftness, and 3 stacks of Might. If they spec heavy in banners, and pick up the banner heal/regen, they can also put 1 minute of regen on you too.

No need to provide Fury for yourself, when the Warrior can do it so much easier.

Galphar.3901:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

The moral of the story is, rangers can pump out some serious DPS, if you build them properly. Running bows or axes, on the other hand, severely gimps their DPS and gives them a bad name in dungeons. Hell, I have to admit that until I actually looked into it, I thought rangers were bad DPS too.

The problem is that most people rolled Ranger to be a “ranged” DPS with a pet. And has already been said, Thiefs, Wars, and Guardians do better melee DPS and bring much better buffs and CC.

Ranger actually outdpses warrior pretty easily if you roll in the pet. Thieves are a bit closer but I think ranger actually still takes the lead. Their damage potential is extremely high.

Something I recorded from COF1, which is convenient because it’s easy to find pugs that know how to stack might properly in that dungeon.

Ranger actually outdpses warrior pretty easily if you roll in the pet. Thieves are a bit closer but I think ranger actually still takes the lead. Their damage potential is extremely high.

Something I recorded from COF1, which is convenient because it’s easy to find pugs that know how to stack might properly in that dungeon.

[/quote]

Nice vid.

It demonstrates a simple concept that I think many players tend to forget. In order to do the most dmg you need to stack buffs like might and fury on yourself, and you need to stack vulnerability on your target.

Solo, a ranger might be able to maintain 10 stacks of vulnerability on a target and maybe 11-14 stacks of might on themselves (jungle stalker and sigils of battle). In an organized group, you can easily keep every player buffed with 20-25 stacks of might as well as debuff a target with 15-25 stacks of vulnerability.

Of course, with the build you posted, your pet would be uber buffed as well.

I always love it when people say rangers aren’t as good at damage because they can’t uber stack might and vuln, yet you put them in a scenario where they get those and they will destroy everything because their doing a ton of damage WITHOUT those…

^^^^^^^

This.

Ofc they can..Ah this wonderfull video..Its candy for my eyes.Can you plz link build?
When the pet does what is suppose to do everything is perfect..
We can do big dmg in sPvP too (where stats are a little bit lower).I specc for 0/30/10/0/30 with berseker amulet and Longbow-Axe/warhorn..Great dmg output combined with some survival utilities can make a strong combo..And the new QZ may be weak for autoattacking with SB but now with the longer duration make other weapons better and maybe is leaving room for some better Berseker Builds..

Durzlla.6295:

I always love it when people say rangers aren’t as good at damage because they can’t uber stack might and vuln, yet you put them in a scenario where they get those and they will destroy everything because their doing a ton of damage WITHOUT those…

Warriors stack might, vuln, and fury naturally, so it’s easy for the average player to pick up their warrior, spam all their shouts, and do HB on something and see a big number and assume that’s just due to high base DPS. However, it is very easy for a well-organized group to maintain 15-20 stacks of might and vulnerability constantly, if not 25, so the classes that appear to deal less damage without might actually end up being much stronger. Ranger DPS skyrockets, as does guardian (although in their case it’s fury they need, not might).

The problem isn’t “uber-stacking” might and vuln though, it’s that their base DPS on the most commonly used weapons is low. In that same dungeon run, I dropped the controller way faster than any warrior I’ve ever seen do it, and my party members had no idea how I was doing it. Sword ranger DPS simply isn’t on most people’s radar.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Durzlla.6295:

I always love it when people say rangers aren’t as good at damage because they can’t uber stack might and vuln, yet you put them in a scenario where they get those and they will destroy everything because their doing a ton of damage WITHOUT those…

Warriors stack might, vuln, and fury naturally, so it’s easy for the average player to pick up their warrior, spam all their shouts, and do HB on something and see a big number and assume that’s just due to high base DPS. However, it is very easy for a well-organized group to maintain 15-20 stacks of might and vulnerability constantly, if not 25, so the classes that appear to deal less damage without might actually end up being much stronger. Ranger DPS skyrockets, as does guardian (although in their case it’s fury they need, not might).

The problem isn’t “uber-stacking” might and vuln though, it’s that their base DPS on the most commonly used weapons is low. In that same dungeon run, I dropped the controller way faster than any warrior I’ve ever seen do it, and my party members had no idea how I was doing it. Sword ranger DPS simply isn’t on most people’s radar.

I’m not surprised a lot of people aren’t doing as much damage on ranger as they want, they seem to think “ranger” means to fight from range… You know despite the fact ANET said melee damage will always be greater than ranged…

Too many negative nay sayers blinded the community to the Rangers potential. Its not like the sword or pet attacks got buffed.

Is this setup decent in wvw ?

I’ll log back into my ranger when I can dps without using the most awkward weapon in the game, and am not reliant on a pet that can’t dodge or walk out of red circles. It’s also worth noting that even without these limitations, the warrior offers far better support and all of his damage is an AoE cleave.

Vargs.6234:

I’ll log back into my ranger when I can dps without using the most awkward weapon in the game, and am not reliant on a pet that can’t dodge or walk out of red circles. It’s also worth noting that even without these limitations, the warrior offers far better support and all of his damage is an AoE cleave.

Ideally you’d take both in a party. The warrior takes Banner of Discipline and Banner of Strength, and the ranger takes Frost Spirit. The combo of the two gives some serious damage buffs to the entire party.

Also, I did some testing with pet DPS. The feline is in fact the strongest pet but even the weaker DPS pets still put out okay DPS; the moa is half of the felines output, while even the bear is about 40%. The drake and canine, which are both super tanky, both output about 70% of the feline’s output.

Note also that this is with max might scaling the pet’s relative stats in different ways (i.e. canine has more base power so it gains less from might). Without might, pretty much all pets besides bear and spider are within 80% of the feline’s output,

Yeah, now do this outside cof p1.

Make a molten facility video where you pull this DPS not only on one mob, but several like the warrior can cleave.

The ideal is not always the practical.

I just tried this build in Molten Facility and you’ll get bounced around when your stability from signet is on cooldown, your cat and canines will die pretty quick and are useless particularly in the last boss fights with all the aoe fields (in that case you have to use moas or drakes), and the damage is quite frankly wanting when you don’t have easy might stacking like you can get in cof p1.

This build won’t even work in fractal 48+ as mobs there pretty much hit like a boss unit regularly and your pet can’t dodge so they’ll die pretty quickly if agony doesn’t get them first.

Zenith.7301:

Yeah, now do this outside cof p1.

Make a molten facility video where you pull this DPS not only on one mob, but several like the warrior can cleave.

The ideal is not always the practical.

I just tried this build in Molten Facility and you’ll get bounced around when your stability from signet is on cooldown, your cat and canines will die pretty quick and are useless particularly in the last boss fights with all the aoe fields (in that case you have to use moas or drakes), and the damage is quite frankly wanting when you don’t have easy might stacking like you can get in cof p1.

This build won’t even work in fractal 48+ as mobs there pretty much hit like a boss unit regularly and your pet can’t dodge so they’ll die pretty quickly if agony doesn’t get them first.

Seems like you’ve got several distinct problems here and I’m not convinced all of them are the ranger’s fault.

1) Getting knocked down by mobs is a problem for every class, even the guardian, who gets tons of AOE stability.

2) Warriors won’t deal any damage either if the group isn’t stacking might properly. At the very least, though, rangers stack fury very easily, which is much harder to get in general.

3) I just ran Molten Facility earlier today on my ranger and had no problem with using my pet to DPS down the end bosses. Even my spirit was just fine, just make sure you recall your pet if it starts taking damage from fire fields.

4) The difference in cleave ability really isn’t that different between warrior and ranger. Don’t forget that rangers still cleave with their swords, it’s only the pet that doesn’t cleave. Between Frost Spirit (which won’t die to normal mobs) and the group fury you’re probably providing, you’re still cleaving multiple mobs for more damage with your ranger than you would be with a warrior.

Durzlla.6295:

I always love it when people say rangers aren’t as good at damage because they can’t uber stack might and vuln, yet you put them in a scenario where they get those and they will destroy everything because their doing a ton of damage WITHOUT those…

It has to be that way. If a class can’t give itself or a party might stacks, then damage solo will be subpar, and parties won’t want them. The only way to make the class worth playing, and to make people want to add them to a party is to increase their base damage. That way their damage is viable (without might stacks) solo, and in a party they’ll provide provide extra damage when grouped with classes which give might stacks.

@OP: can you please make a video highlighting your testing and/or live performance?

@ talks about might, etc stacking

Honestly, people that pvp now and are still thinking about stacking boons are going down a bad path.

What class is a large majority in pvp? Thieves.

What class just had their skill that hits for 2/3 backstab damage now steal 2 boons instead of just remove 1? Thieves

What are those thieves going to do with your stacks of boons? Steal them and beat your face in with them.

Sebrent.3625:

@OP: can you please make a video highlighting your testing and/or live performance?

---

@ talks about might, etc stacking

Honestly, people that pvp now and are still thinking about stacking boons are going down a bad path.

What class is a large majority in pvp? Thieves.

What class just had their skill that hits for 2/3 backstab damage now steal 2 boons instead of just remove 1? Thieves

What are those thieves going to do with your stacks of boons? Steal them and beat your face in with them.

That or my Phantasm Mesmer goes, “Oh boy 25stqcks of might!” steal

Idk why people hate HGH engi, I love them, so kind and generous giving me all those buffs so I can kill them!

In a pvp scenario their wont be 25 stacks of might. 25 stacks is only for dungeon scenario.

In a pvp scenario you and your pet will still be doing massive damage without might! Sword cripples well enough for pets to land their hits.

KensaiZen.3740:

In a pvp scenario their wont be 25 stacks of might. 25 stacks is only for dungeon scenario.

In a pvp scenario you and your pet will still be doing massive damage without might! Sword cripples well enough for pets to land their hits.

25 stacks of might isn’t only PvE, some builds (like HGH engi) stack up to 25 stacks of might in PvP as well, i know there’s a few GC warrior GS builds that do it (might on crit on their strongest weapon is super fair and balanced).

And rangers do massive damage EVERYWHERE without might, the only people that really outshine us are Warriors and Thieves because it seems everyone has a kitten for burst.

OP, is this build more suited to pve or pvp? Also, could you please post a detailed explantion of the build (all traits, skills and gear), because I want to test it out for myself in game. Thanks!

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Zenith.7301:

Yeah, now do this outside cof p1.

Make a molten facility video where you pull this DPS not only on one mob, but several like the warrior can cleave.

The ideal is not always the practical.

I just tried this build in Molten Facility and you’ll get bounced around when your stability from signet is on cooldown, your cat and canines will die pretty quick and are useless particularly in the last boss fights with all the aoe fields (in that case you have to use moas or drakes), and the damage is quite frankly wanting when you don’t have easy might stacking like you can get in cof p1.

This build won’t even work in fractal 48+ as mobs there pretty much hit like a boss unit regularly and your pet can’t dodge so they’ll die pretty quickly if agony doesn’t get them first.

Seems like you’ve got several distinct problems here and I’m not convinced all of them are the ranger’s fault.

1) Getting knocked down by mobs is a problem for every class, even the guardian, who gets tons of AOE stability.

2) Warriors won’t deal any damage either if the group isn’t stacking might properly. At the very least, though, rangers stack fury very easily, which is much harder to get in general.

3) I just ran Molten Facility earlier today on my ranger and had no problem with using my pet to DPS down the end bosses. Even my spirit was just fine, just make sure you recall your pet if it starts taking damage from fire fields.

4) The difference in cleave ability really isn’t that different between warrior and ranger. Don’t forget that rangers still cleave with their swords, it’s only the pet that doesn’t cleave. Between Frost Spirit (which won’t die to normal mobs) and the group fury you’re probably providing, you’re still cleaving multiple mobs for more damage with your ranger than you would be with a warrior.

1) Getting knocked around means the ability to frontload daamge is important, which rangers can’t do because unlike thief backstab or warrior mainhand axe they can’t deliver huge chunkes of damage in between moments of not being on melee. Their damage is strictly from the auto, which is sustained damage.

2)This is an outright lie. Warriors by themselves without might stacking at the very least still land minimums of 11k 100b and their axe autos are critting for 3-4k without might stacking in berserker gear.

3) Videos, please. I’d love to see that mythical scenario where your jaguar isn’t dying quickly to aoe and your spirit isn’t getting targeted by the meteors. My guess is you actually went with drake, in which case you just dropped your pet DPS contribution considerably, while the other non-pet classes didn’t have to make a DPS sacrifice based on crappy ai.

4) This is what makes you lose any credibility for me. If 100b and whirlwind attack cleaves you consider to be comparable with ranger mainhand sword auto spam, I just don’t trust anything you say hereon without evidence.

FernandoCruz.7036:

OP, is this build more suited to pve or pvp? Also, could you please post a detailed explantion of the build (all traits, skills and gear), because I want to test it out for myself in game. Thanks!

There’s a link to the build in the video description.

Also, you’re not going to get 3-4k crits with JUST a warrior’s own buffs. I just did a quick test with just what you can get on warrior (SIgnet of Fury, FGJ, etc.) and I’m getting about 2.5k tops. On my ranger, my self-buffed attacks hit for a bit under 2k at the same rate, and I have a pet dealing extra damage on top of that. I’m actually hitting for more than an axe warrior on a single target, unbuffed. 11k on HB is also really bad, that’s less than 3k/s for a skill that takes four seconds to wind up and deals most of its damage on the last hit, and has a recharge.

As for Molten Facility, it’s not difficult. A warrior at range doesn’t do any damage either, so there is in fact a DPS tradeoff. If you’re both in melee range, you’re probably not standing in AOE, and your pet will do fine. Pets have high health and armor naturally (even the stalker) so as long as it’s not being blasted by a big OHKO move or standing in AOE constantly without moving, it’ll do fine. Make sure you use the F3 command to move the pet around. It is more work than just auto-attacking with warrior, yes. Impossible, no.

I’m going to save people alot of time and maybe some entertainment.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/82622-rangers-out-dps-warriors/

Just go to this thread and read it. Same topic… better results… and also more humerous if you’re into that.

Ioflux.4369:

I’m going to save people alot of time and maybe some entertainment.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/82622-rangers-out-dps-warriors/

Just go to this thread and read it. Same topic… better results… and also more humerous if you’re into that.

Yeah, the fact that the warrior players are so desperate to shut down the potential of ranger DPS, yet aren’t able to offer a bit of proof supporting the fact that warriors are supposedly better DPS, says a lot. I’ve been running rangers in dungeons a lot recently and I have to say they are extremely strong. I easily outdamage both my warrior and my guardian by a wide margin, except in ranged battles, where the guardian is still king.

If it’s any comfort, I don’t think rangers are supposed to be DPS. Anet will probably nerf them if too many people start running rangers, and continue to buff warriors, because that’s what they always do. Their philosophy is basically always buff warriors, ignore guardians, nerf thieves/elementalists, with rangers somewhere in between.

EDIT: For those of use who don’t want to read the Guru thread, it basically concluded this:

1) Rangers do have extremely high DPS. I don’t think anyone seriously debates this. In fact, in response to that ranger DPS video I posted above, someone else posted a video of a warrior bursting the Slave Driver with a 38k HB. This is a pretty impressive number but you can tell from the same vdeio that’s pretty much pure burst. If you actually go through the two videos carefully you realize that the warrior’s sustained damage over time is actually going to be less than the ranger’s, because while the ranger doesn’t get as big numbers per hit, it racks up a lot more of them. In other words, the ranger + pet actually outDPSed the warrior even when the warrior had more might and vulnerability stacked.

2) There were concerns about sword movement being awkward and pets dying. These are legitimate concerns but given the Ranger’s raw DPS advantage, it is actually possible to go with the tankiest pets (even bear) and still match the warrior’s raw DPS pretty easily. Don’t forget that Frost Spirit is also a huge damage buff to the team, so even if the ranger is dealing less than a warrior individually, the overall damage buff will exceed what a second warrior (i.e. banners already up) would bring.

3) Rangers actually have pretty strong burst. In fact, it’s even more frontloaded than the warrior. The warrior gets a big number off HB but it’s a 4-second channel, so it’s actually not as huge of a burst as you’d think (you get about 3k more damage per second). In my video, you can actually see the greatsword hitting for 5k+ several times (using Maul and Swoop) while the pet buffed with Sic’ Em and Signet of the Wild actually manages to hit 9.5k once. Obviously, you can only do this at the very start of a fight, then it’s just sustained sword DPS, but it’s not bad for the burst either.

If you want to compare the dps of the two, take a greatsword (or sword) on your Ranger and a Greatsword (or Axe) on the Warrior and hack at a test dummy. Then factor in your pet attacking it too.

As long as the Ranger AND their Pet can maintain both their DPSs on the target, they can outperform the Warrior. As soon as the pet starts being dead or having to stop DPSing, the Warrior will outperform the Ranger.

I know forum-talk traditionally ignores the human factor, but it’s really relevant in this circumstance.

What makes GS/Axe Warrior so powerful is not just the Output, but the low Skill Floor and how well it works in most contexts. Not only can nearly everybody pick up the build and do well with it, but they can do it nearly all the time.

A Ranger Cat Sword/x build is just not in a good place if half the people don’t have the multitasking technical proficiency to keep their glass cannon pet alive in most encounters, and the other half experiences the awkwardness of sword and drops that thing like it’s on fire.

Vox Hollow.2736:

I know forum-talk traditionally ignores the human factor, but it’s really relevant in this circumstance.

What makes GS/Axe Warrior so powerful is not just the Output, but the low Skill Floor and how well it works in most contexts. Not only can nearly everybody pick up the build and do well with it, but they can do it nearly all the time.

A Ranger Cat Sword/x build is just not in a good place if half the people don’t have the multitasking technical proficiency to keep their glass cannon pet alive in most encounters, and the other half experiences the awkwardness of sword and drops that thing like it’s on fire.

Won’t argue with that. There’s a reason why zerker warrior + mesmer is the COF farm meta for pugs and probably will stay that way forever.

I love how defensive you get from me linking a thread lol. Anyone who has the slightest bit of comprehension knows that after reading the guru thread, your claims are not actually true, but please do keep my work boredom occupied. You stopped replying there since you can’t actually prove your claim, no one agrees with you, so now you’re on this forum to make another stab it.

I definitely appreciate your idea to give more respect to rangers and getting people to give them more viability but to stretch truths, make exaggerations, living in theorycrafted ideal land, and not providing “real evidence” outside of perfect thought out scenarios is more damaging to the community.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Vox Hollow.2736:

I know forum-talk traditionally ignores the human factor, but it’s really relevant in this circumstance.

What makes GS/Axe Warrior so powerful is not just the Output, but the low Skill Floor and how well it works in most contexts. Not only can nearly everybody pick up the build and do well with it, but they can do it nearly all the time.

A Ranger Cat Sword/x build is just not in a good place if half the people don’t have the multitasking technical proficiency to keep their glass cannon pet alive in most encounters, and the other half experiences the awkwardness of sword and drops that thing like it’s on fire.

Won’t argue with that. There’s a reason why zerker warrior + mesmer is the COF farm meta for pugs and probably will stay that way forever.

Hey now, Mesmer doesn’t have a low skill floor. CoF p1 is just so stupid easy with zerk warriors that all they want is two spells … portal and timewarp.

lol I hope no one is fooled by this. You can replace that ranger with any class in a zerker warrior party and it will be the same result. The reason why he is hitting that hard is because of the warriors and their banners and their might stacks. 1/10 for making me reply OP.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Here are my numbers for calculations, as promised:

Power = 1095 from gear + 120 from ruby orbs + 100 from traits + 875 from might = 2190 power = *239% base damage*
Precision = 728 from gear + 300 + traits + 84 from orbs + 70 from food = +1182 precision = +56% crit chance

Crit chance = 4% base + 56% from precision + 5% from Sigil of Accuracy 20% from fury = 85% crit chance
Crit damage = 50% base + 62% from gear + 12% from orbs + 30% from traits + 10% from food = +154%
Crit modifier = [crit chance] x [crit damage] = *140%*

Other boosts = 10% from Steady Focus + 10% from Hunter’s Tacts + 5% from Bountiful Hunting + 5% from Sigil of Force + 10% from mob-specific potion + 25% from vulnerability = *58.4%*

Damage: 202, 202, 235 over 1.8s = 355 base damage per second, multiply by all of the above and you get 5296 total.

I haven’t been able to come up with your final damage number.

I’m getting (355)(2190/916)(.15 + .85*2.54)(1.584) = 3,104.24 dps.

Even compounding those % damage bonuses I only get 3,594.73. Why am I getting such different numbers?

Force.2841:

lol I hope no one is fooled by this. You can replace that ranger with any class in a zerker warrior party and it will be the same result. The reason why he is hitting that hard is because of the warriors and their banners and their might stacks. 1/10 for making me reply OP.

Do it with a necro and come back and say that again.

Killsmith.8169:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Here are my numbers for calculations, as promised:

Power = 1095 from gear + 120 from ruby orbs + 100 from traits + 875 from might = 2190 power = *239% base damage*
Precision = 728 from gear + 300 + traits + 84 from orbs + 70 from food = +1182 precision = +56% crit chance

Crit chance = 4% base + 56% from precision + 5% from Sigil of Accuracy 20% from fury = 85% crit chance
Crit damage = 50% base + 62% from gear + 12% from orbs + 30% from traits + 10% from food = +154%
Crit modifier = [crit chance] x [crit damage] = *140%*

Other boosts = 10% from Steady Focus + 10% from Hunter’s Tacts + 5% from Bountiful Hunting + 5% from Sigil of Force + 10% from mob-specific potion + 25% from vulnerability = *58.4%*

Damage: 202, 202, 235 over 1.8s = 355 base damage per second, multiply by all of the above and you get 5296 total.

I haven’t been able to come up with your final damage number.

I’m getting (355)(2190/916)(.15 + .85*2.54)(1.584) = 3,104.24 dps.

Even compounding those % damage bonuses I only get 3,594.73. Why am I getting such different numbers?

I’m sorry, I made a lot of mistakes while transcribing the spreadsheet, although your formula is also a bit off.

“(2190/916)” is your problem. Need to add 1 to that, because you have +2190 base power, not 2190 total power. You are getting 2190/916 = 239% extra damage, so you want to multiply by 3.39, not 2.39.

Also, your formula for crits is also off. The proper formula for additional average damage from crits is [crit chance] x [crit damage], or in this case .88 × 1.64 (I made a typo in the last post when transcribing my spreadsheet, sorry, there’s an extra 30 precision and 10% crit damage I missed). That gives you .88 × 1.64 = 1.443, or +144.3% damage. That makes the multiplier for crits 2.443.

Lastly, I have no idea how I managed to write 58.4% for the percentage damage boosts, it should be 83.4%. It looks like I used the right percentage in my spreadsheet so I dunno why I wrote a totally different number down here.

Anyway, in the end you get:

[Base damage] x [1 + additional power/916] x [1 + crit chance x crit damage] x [product of all damage boosts]

or

355 × 3.39 × 2.443 x 1.834 = 5392

As an aside, you can also add the warrior’s two banners plus Spirit of Frost to that to get 6602 DPS. Feline adds about 2250 DPS (give or take a few, since pet damage is a bit weird) on top of that for a total of about 8850 DPS, which is higher than anything else you will get in the game on any other class, even warrior. Even if you’re forced to go full tank mode for your pet and take a bear, which is only about 850 DPS, you’re still getting 7450 DPS, and if you split the difference with a canine pet at 1400 DPS, you get 8k even.

Those are pretty good numbers, both in theory and in practice. Even if spirit and pet are constantly dead (absolute minimum possible damage) you’ll still get 6171 DPS just from the banners.

Yeah I didn’t look at the breakdown on the power. I saw 2190 and *239% base damage and figured it was total since that’s about what I have without might stacks.

What I was doing with the criticals was breaking it out into % of non criticals times damage plus % of criticals times critical damage. The result with your updated numbers would be [.12 + .88(2.64)] which comes out to 2.4432.

I just don’t “get” this build at all. Why you need 30 points in nature magic. I can understand 15 points to buff pet damage, but 30? 2 traits for spirit and some power from vit. It maybe gives “more” damage in theory but IMO just plain sucks in reality.
I don’t know, this build is just IMO suboptimal for normal gameplay and made only for theory crafting. Every 10 points in bm gives 100 to every pet stat. It makes them just plain better.
some 10/20/5/15/20 IMO looks way better for normal gameplay.

Also in “cof reallity” there are some problems.
Firstly,
first champion dies in about 10? seconds? So it’s not the substain damage race, but burst damage. Warrior can whirl, 100lb, evi etc. Big numbers. You just can’t beat it with some autoattack dps. His only 3 skills are worth around you damage in 10 second (if you can manage this “maxed” one, add 100lb, whirl, evi damage, only those skills.).
Second is last boss.
You need great mesmer there who will reflect every attack. We all know how dodging sucks with 1h sword. Your spirit will die in 3 seconds there so his buff is just wasted. It’s the only part in which dps does matter (instead of just plain burst) and in this part your main party utility is just dead and you need to be lucky to just don’t get launched by some crystal. 2 traits are wasted. Tell me why 30 in nature magic? Still don’t get it. In which dungeon you can really use this spirit? Aside from probably trash mobs which can be controlled, don’t cast some aoe (still I don’t need 30 in nature magic to just swap to spirit in this scenario…)