The ranger in GW2
Welcome to Ranger. Get used to unfavorable balance adjustments (many ‘out of left field’).
Thank you Bran, for the support.
And for me, played my ranger as a main since launch (i detest beta’s)…
And.. I love that hunters…. err.. rangers have a skillcap
I seldom post on forums.
I played a WoW Hunter for 6 years till found this game.
Played bear and longbow quite a few – but thanks for the few and dedicated learned to adapt to being melee.
Well, a melee ranger really is a monster.. if the buffs align
The pet hits hard… etc.
Aaand.. I hate a debate when ppl say “what can rangers bring other classes aren’t able”.
Those “no rangers” pug-groups are for wannabe speedrunners who don’t know of anything better.
yes melee ranger is a beast i dropped my guardian for my ranger im glad to see this post its disheartening coming on forums and seeing people say how bad rangers are when theirs builds that prove rangers can be very good
Good Ranger – Melee
Bad Ranger – semi-melee (shortbow)
The Worst “Ranger” – Ranged
logic?
[SALT]Natchniony – Necromancer, EU.
Streams: http://www.twitch.tv/rym144
Good Ranger – Melee
Bad Ranger – semi-melee (shortbow)
The Worst “Ranger” – Rangedlogic?
Rym you might very well be right about ranged its just 99% of what i have read on forums what people want is over powered ranged look through them lots of what they want are just over the top
Good Ranger – Melee
Bad Ranger – semi-melee (shortbow)
The Worst “Ranger” – Rangedlogic?
The “range” in “ranger” does not originate from using ranged weapons.
Ranger
noun: person or thing that wanders or ranges over a particular area or domain, a soldier specially trained in close-range fighting and in raiding tactics
@Fluffball – I base my thoughts on profession descreption and the origins of Ranger in Guild Wars, not on ethymology. Quoted word is just for ironic purposes.
What people want is actually any ranged option. The game has failed concept of ranged combat, when it assumes that if you go melee, you’re in greater risk so you should have better everything and staying at range is for noobs. It’s total fake statement and has connection only in poor PvE mechanics when the boss is so flooded with particle effects that you can’t see anything unless you go for some range or boss having only some poor one-shot attacks in melee, boses are also very kiteable.
As I stated, I’m releasing full CDI proposal on days which contains very good new options for Ranger as a whole with introduction of Symbiosis and better pet management. Hope you’ll find it interesting.
[SALT]Natchniony – Necromancer, EU.
Streams: http://www.twitch.tv/rym144
Most games do it backwards, where ranged characters are practically demigods and melee fighters inherit all the risk and none of the reward. Compare and contrast a Diablo I warrior vs. sorcerer. The warrior had no abilities at all and the sorcerer could kill everything on the screen with a single click.
GW1 set the precedent for doing it right. Melee combat is always riskier than ranged combat (even in GW2; see bearbow), so it does more damage. In GW1, the game completely revolved around warriors and all other classes existed to keep those damage machines alive. GW2 continues in the correct direction of keeping riskier melee better than risk-free ranged. All 4 martial classes use their ranged purely for support, and do their best work in melee.
been a ranger for over 14 months now speedrunnig ect
melee s/w+ s/a spotter n frost is so good for the party
reason were hated is coz of all the bear + bows jsut saying
‘’no ranger posts’’ are people who r just ignorant don’’t wanna play witht hem anyway
The Way of The Peter
Most games do it backwards, where ranged characters are practically demigods and melee fighters inherit all the risk and none of the reward. Compare and contrast a Diablo I warrior vs. sorcerer. The warrior had no abilities at all and the sorcerer could kill everything on the screen with a single click.
GW1 set the precedent for doing it right. Melee combat is always riskier than ranged combat (even in GW2; see bearbow), so it does more damage. In GW1, the game completely revolved around warriors and all other classes existed to keep those damage machines alive. GW2 continues in the correct direction of keeping riskier melee better than risk-free ranged. All 4 martial classes use their ranged purely for support, and do their best work in melee.
1. “Most games” which games? And now, which of them are MMOs? Because I think you refer to single player games.
World of Wacraft, despite your hatred towards Blizzard, has good foundaments, and that’s why players are STILL excited about this game. After 10 years, MMO!
And I tell you, Ranged and Melee are on the same level of DPS, or very very close. Why? Because if one class like Hunter would do more/less damage, class like Warrior would be completly abadoned/flooded and nothing else would be okay. Something we have in GW2 now. You have a DPS meters there, mind you.
Ranged&Melee DPS is pretty similar because of couple factors:
a)Fight Mechanics – Whole group recives damage. If boss has to do AoE with range of 1800 to reach players using bows, so be it!
b)In some fights I admit, Ranged players may be closer to safe zones in particular encounter phases. But what’s up with melee? Do they die?
No! They just have better defense allowing them to stay closer or get to the safe zone too. They don’t have increased damage to do that, because that would not solve anything. They have better defense at their disposal, so they can reach safe zones alive and be no worse than ranged. And it’s not harder or more risky.
2. You compare Diablo I to MMO now. It’s like giving and example of how something works in Call of Duty to field officer during war in Afghanistan.
Diablo I, to begin with, is single-player Hack’n’Slash game, never aspired to be balanced or MMO, is an old, but gold game. It’s 18 years old also and can have outdated mechanics.
3. Bearbow is not safer because it’s ranged. It’s safer because Bears have good threat-holding in game without threat and taunting (?) and are good in tanking thanks to stats. You argument is totally invaild. The moment mob starts to ignore bear and runs to Ranger, all advantage is lost.
4. From what I know, GW1 wasn’t just about Warriors. They were mostly used for tanking and bodyblocking/CC from what I remember, more than actual DPS. It was a game with certain roles to fill and differs greatly from GW2. You could build many other classes to be DPS for group. Warriors were okay because of high physical damage resistance. Again, defense.
5. I can’t agree with your statement. You want a game where you have literally two groups – Melee players, the all-better players and Ranged, the Noobs.
I agree that current design of PvE makes ranged less risky in certain encounters, but that’s a fatal fail in game design from ANet, not a good direction, God help us!
Now tell me- what would be the purpose of having Rifles, Pistols, Bows in game? For newbies who start the game? So they can just take some better, melee weapon once they get more experience and just thow away ranged option because it’s just designed to be bad and for bad?
6. So ranged for pros should be only for some support? Like utility when they rest from melee?
What you suggest here is total erase of Ranged aspect of the game. And mind you, that’s huge aspect of the gameplay. You say that we can more or less, just ignore:
-Longbow
-Shortbow
-Rifle
-Pistol
So why bother in Ranged combat? Why not make that support aspect melee? It’d be easier, more skillfull. Keep ranged options as a tutorial maybe? Like “if you suck, just stand back there and do anything”.
You see, we could adapt Dark Souls combat system to GW2. I like it, it’s skillful. If you don’t dodge something, you die. But where does it evolve? You don’t need any progress or armour, since it just slows down your evades.
It makes whole aspect of RPG worth nothing. And it’s okay for a single-player game.
If you want to do the same with Ranged combat, you might as well go back to Diablo I.
Every MMO has to have ranged combat and it has to be not worse or better than melee.
As I stated previously, the fail in design is that you increase damage (and boons too, which greatly reduce threat in melee and further buff it up, mind you!), where to solve the problem of riskier melee you have to increase defense.
Before you post again, please hold for a second and think about it.
[SALT]Natchniony – Necromancer, EU.
Streams: http://www.twitch.tv/rym144
1. “Most games” which games? And now, which of them are MMOs? Because I think you refer to single player games.
Fantasy games in general. Throughout gaming history until recently, magic has been super powerful with things like teleport and massive AoE, charming enemies, turning enemies in to stone, instant death (there is actually a D&D spell called “Death”) etc., and fighters have been hunks of meat.
despite your hatred towards Blizzard,
???
b)In some fights I admit, Ranged players may be closer to safe zones in particular encounter phases. But what’s up with melee? Do they die?
No! They just have better defense allowing them to stay closer or get to the safe zone too. They don’t have increased damage to do that, because that would not solve anything. They have better defense at their disposal, so they can reach safe zones alive and be no worse than ranged. And it’s not harder or more risky.
I have no problems with this. A berserker ranger on LB will do a lot more damage to a boss than a cleric’s gaurdian. A berserker warrior should definitely do more damage if he’s meleeing a dangerous boss than a ranger at max range. The risk is real, I see people somehow managing to kill themselves even in CoF.
Diablo I, to begin with, is single-player Hack’n’Slash game, never aspired to be balanced or MMO, is an old, but gold game. It’s 18 years old also and can have outdated mechanics.
Exactly. More recent games did away with that model and started using a risk vs reward model. In DII, melee (barbs) got a lot stronger than warriors in DI. Sorceresses got ridiculously powerful, but they’re super glassy. I think GW1 took it a step further and was quite happy with that model. Rangers did WAY less damage in GW1 because the risk of them dying was pretty much 0.
3. Bearbow is not safer because it’s ranged. It’s safer because Bears have good threat-holding in game without threat and taunting (?) and are good in tanking thanks to stats. You argument is totally invaild. The moment mob starts to ignore bear and runs to Ranger, all advantage is lost.
If you’re in a party, the ranger at 1800 range will almost never be targeted. Meanwhile the melee players need to make use of things like aegis, blind, evade, etc. Is that too easy in the current dungeon speed clear environment? Yes, but that’s partly our own fault for breaking the game with meta builds. Anet has plans to address that very soon (next update I think?)
4. From what I know, GW1 wasn’t just about Warriors. They were mostly used for tanking and bodyblocking/CC from what I remember, more than actual DPS. It was a game with certain roles to fill and differs greatly from GW2. You could build many other classes to be DPS for group. Warriors were okay because of high physical damage resistance. Again, defense.
I meant in PvP where the entire fight revolved around the high damage warrior front line, and the mid and back lines did nothing but support the warriors.
Although in PvE martial classes in general were WAAAAY stronger than casters thanks to the way the magic support system worked. Casters were purely support in GW1 and if you played a damage ele you were pretty well hated. GW1 had tank and spank runs, but they either used weird mechanics (shadowform and broken PBAoE) or were laughably out of date.
5. Now tell me- what would be the purpose of having Rifles, Pistols, Bows in game? For newbies who start the game? So they can just take some better, melee weapon once they get more experience and just thow away ranged option because it’s just designed to be bad and for bad?
Basically, yes. As you get better at the game you can afford to take more risks. I run sword almost exclusively, but there are still plenty of places I am not good enough to melee and have to resort to range so I don’t drag down my team. I’m not that great at meleeing the champ prisoners in uncategorized at high levels, for example.
So why bother in Ranged combat? Why not make that support aspect melee? It’d be easier, more skillfull. Keep ranged options as a tutorial maybe? Like “if you suck, just stand back there and do anything”.
When I say support I mean their own personal support. If you need to fall out of melee because you missed a dodge. I view ranged as your safety net. Some bosses are hard enough that most people use range on them. You can say the same thing about WvW. It’s safer to sit in the back and range than to try to coordinate the skills that keep a zerg alive if you’ve never done things like that before.
Every MMO has to have ranged combat and it has to be not worse or better than melee.
GW2 accomplished that, IMO. Range is safe, melee is more damaging. I mostly find them both interesting (although I prefer melee range on all classes.)
As I stated previously, the fail in design is that you increase damage (and boons too, which greatly reduce threat in melee and further buff it up, mind you!), where to solve the problem of riskier melee you have to increase defense.
Sure, there are design flaws with the danger levels right now. I still stand by “greater risk = greater damage”. It’s up to Anet to make everything work.
Before you post again, please hold for a second and think about it.
See previous comment. I’ve felt this way since beta.
I think, with all respect, that we won’t get to any pax in here for now, because we just simply differ too much in our views and game experiences/expectations and reasoning :P
That’s said, ANet should really determine what they want the Ranged combat to be. I think we might see first steps in future patch.
And, oh, didn’t mean that “your” in quote about Blizzard, I was just writing other response and typed that automaticlly. I tend to assume that most of the players out there really hate or hated WoW and they ignore arguments refering to that game ^^
[SALT]Natchniony – Necromancer, EU.
Streams: http://www.twitch.tv/rym144
Good Ranger – Melee
Bad Ranger – semi-melee (shortbow)
The Worst “Ranger” – Rangedlogic?
The “range” in “ranger” does not originate from using ranged weapons.
Ranger
noun: person or thing that wanders or ranges over a particular area or domain, a soldier specially trained in close-range fighting and in raiding tactics
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ranger
Guild Wars; Ranger:
" They FAvor long-range combat, the bow being their weapon of choice, and can be especially effective from elevated locations such as bridges and cliffs "
(edited by Burnfall.9573)
Good Ranger – Melee
Bad Ranger – semi-melee (shortbow)
The Worst “Ranger” – Rangedlogic?
The “range” in “ranger” does not originate from using ranged weapons.
Ranger
noun: person or thing that wanders or ranges over a particular area or domain, a soldier specially trained in close-range fighting and in raiding tacticshttp://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ranger
Guild Wars; Ranger:
" They FAvor long-range combat, the bow being their weapon of choice, and can be especially effective from elevated locations such as bridges and cliffs "
First, your quoting a post referring specifically to linguistics. Second, see the giant wall of text in the few posts above yours to see why I don’t see powerful ranged weapons ever being added to any Anet game, for any class.
Rangers had some very powerful builds in GW1, but the best bow builds were interrupt builds. Unfortunately, they destroyed that side of the game in GW2 with defiance and partial cooldowns for interrupted skills.
Yes, agreed. By powerful I meant damage wise. I mused in another thread it would interesting if the 2 bow interrupts added a, say, 500% cooldown to skills.
Big difference between knock back and knockdown.
That’s the difference between a ranger with a bow, and warrior with hammer.