Guild Wars 2

The ranger needs to grow in the intended direction of being more ‘nature magically’ inclined. and adopt some ‘druid/shaman’ like qualities, while not mimicking the Norn racial abilities, BUT at the same time enhance the Norn Rangers ‘attunement to nature’

As long as the Ranger keeps focussed on having a pet ‘persee’ the ranger class will stay a handicapped class outside of PvE.

So I would like to opt for having ‘nature spirits’ or ‘spiritual pets’, to negate the need to actually have a pet. And making these part of the ‘pet equip’ is ‘I think’ a fair way to deal with the situation, and give players a choice… And these ‘spirits’ can be set up in a variety of ways.

- Using atunement to the ‘spirits’ already assigned to the ranger, sun, frost, stone, storm.
- Using other’s: earth, water, air, wood
- Using animal ‘groups’: fish, bird, mamal, reptilian.
- Using more specific: Moa, Yak, Drake, Spider.
- Or any other setup that floats ‘Anets’ boat and is deemed suited for the ranger profession.

What would these ‘spiritual’ pets do? Well they would function just like the current pets, only they would not show as a pet. Aka. They would ‘randomly’ add damage and/or effects to ranger attacks, and offer an F2 skill that could be pressed for a controlled effect.

In order to illustrate the following setup, with the actual spirits that the ranger already has assigned to it. Meaning a ranger could ‘equip’ or ‘attune’ to this spirit of nature, in exchange for having a pet. The ‘effects’ would trigger to the same algorithms that currently control the pets output…

Frost:
1. Your next attack will cause chill to the target
2. Your next attack scatters on impact causing bleed to your target and foes near to it.
3. The next incoming attack glances on your cold icy body
[F2] Embrace the Frost, your body cools the area around you chilling all foes near.

Stone:
1. Your next attack hits like a brick and does extra damage
2. Your next attack hits like a ton of bricks, knocking your target down.
3. The next incoming attack that hits you, gives you a short duration of protection
[F2] Embrace the Stone (‘earth’) gain stability for a short duration.

Storm:
1. Your next attack hits like lighting, it cannot be blocked and negates armor
2. Your next attack that hits, releases a flash of lighting hitting foes near to your target
3. The next incoming attack that hits you, ‘backfires’ as retaliation.
[F2] Embrace the storm, grants nearby allies swiftness.

Sun:
1. Your next attack sets your foe on fire.
2. WHen your next attack hits, it hits so bright it blinds foes near to it.
3. The next incoming attack, when it hits, sets the foes hitting you on fire.
[F2] Embrace the sun, you shine so bright it blinds foes near to you.

These are obviously examples, and a ton of varieties could be made up. I personally think this would be a great addition to the ranger, as it would allow it to be a more viable profession for more people, and it would make the ranger more viable in GW2 formats where the pet is currently more a liability than an asset (surely WvW, likely PvP).

Wat?

Only place where ranger is handicapped at the moment is large scale zerg fighting in wvw. Other than that we are pretty much top tier in PvE and sPvP content.

Frost spirit/spotter ranger who knows how to use the sword is one of the most useful companions in a dungeon and bunker ranger be it spirit or BM are probably the best home point defenders in sPvP.

And for the 12986459185th time the pets are here to stay as our profession mechanic and no matter how much people will whine it’s not going to change.

Of course, you both must be PVE only, and not talking about dungeons… because you are GROSSLY mistaken as Rangers are NOT the top tier in dungeons. Never will be as long as we rely on the pet to complete out 100% damage output. Now, if I had the option to take a spirit pet that granted a passive and my Ranger does 100% of the damage out put instead of having the pet we have now, then great. I’m totally down with this idea. Sign me up yesterday.

Whether you like it or not, Taku, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Large part of the non-bot Ranger player base (take a look at the many hundreds and hundreds if not thousands by now posts in the Ranger sub forum about it) has wanted the pet changed to be optional since it was realized they aren’t worth squat in many situations. Of course, if you refuse to see that, there’s no helping you. Jon Peters has already admitted they can’t/won’t fix it, that’s why they’ve been band aiding it to date. Sounds to me like it’s a better time than any to get the option to not use the pet and get 100% of our damage out put back. It’s not like I play the Ranger for the pet… just like all the Rangers in my guild we play the Ranger because the play style (read: what we do with the Ranger, not dealing with an inadequate AI controlled pet) is just fun.

thefantasticg.3984:

Of course, you both must be PVE only, and not talking about dungeons… because you are GROSSLY mistaken as Rangers are NOT the top tier in dungeons.

Dungeon = PvE. Sorry pumpkin. Rangers can dungeon very well. Everything Taku said was spot on.

CETheSnowflake…. Sure, they can do well. Sadly, it takes a lot more effort to do well with a Ranger overcoming the AI shortcomings than it does on a class not shackled to a lackluster AI pet. Take someone who is fantastic on a Ranger, allow time for learning a new class, and they will be 10x more effective on a warrior, gaurdian, or mesmer as they are not crippled by having the pet.

If the Ranger class did so well then you’d see a lot more “LFG Ranger only” posts, but you don’t and for a reason.

I am not sure I understand how we are handicapped in zerg fighting.
Traps are pretty useful in keeps.
Spirits are pretty useful in roaming.
AE barrage is pretty useful in slowing down runners.
1500 range helps for the same reason.

You have a great sword so you can tag a lot if you choose.

thefantasticg.3984:

CETheSnowflake…. Sure, they can do well.

Oh wow. I didn’t expect you to actually admit you were BSing. Okay. Glad that’s out of the way? o.o

thefantasticg.3984:

If the Ranger class did so well then you’d see a lot more “LFG Ranger only” posts, but you don’t and for a reason.

I don’t see “LFG profession only” posts for anyone, expect for warriors and guardians, with the occasional mesmer for speed clears and high level fractals.

Interesting criteria for what makes a class “good”, it says a lot.

By this logic, Ranger is the best class because we can roll Lupicus in 41 seconds without warriors, guardians, and mesmers.

Right?

Bombsaway.7198:

I am not sure I understand how we are handicapped in zerg fighting.

He’s talking about pet survivability. Pets are dead pretty much instantly in large zerg fight (unless you are 1500 away, in which case neither you nor your pet are really in the fight).

CETheLucid.3964:

Oh wow. I didn’t expect you to actually admit you were BSing. Okay. Glad that’s out of the way? o.o

You dont need to be condescending. while the ranger frost/spotter build is good in pve, the glaring weak point of that build (and any ranger build) is pet survivability. many dungeons and fractals have bosses with short cooldown 1-hit-kill mechanics that render pets dead for the entire fight.

While its probable that rangers will never lose their pet, a (spirit-type) mechanic tied to passive mode that gives the ranger a passive bonus would be welcomed by pretty much the entire community for both certain areas of dungeons and wvw and this idea is consistently one of the most suggested ranger items on the suggestion forums.

After 1 and a half year the “remove the pet because i can’t handle it” posts? I can only understand if this cry is made my a continuos influx of new players. Other than that i can conclude people love to hate.

I can not articulate in any more ways, my english is limited, me and countless other ranger manage the pet just fine and don’t get that much frustrated with it, well maybe at first like two weeks i started playing the game and trust me i’m no special cookie and certantly not hardcore. The main reason i dwell in these forum it’s because don’t have the time to play longer.

Although if by this time (heck give it, i dunno, 100hours of playing ranger) you still see “the issues” And start deluting yourself with nonsense like: “Anet doesn’t like rangers, they want rangers to suffer”.

It’s you! YOU! The “fix” is for you!

Hell mate, i’ll share something to level with you: my mesmer is at lvl 50ish not going anywhere. I tryed a lot, builds, weapons you name it! I don’t know what it is but i can’t make it work. Portal blink, reflections, boon control, phantasms and clones all very appealing to me, but i just… keep dying, lose track of my ilusions, have a hard time getting 3 ilusions up even with an utility bar devoted to creating ilusions… read some guides posted some questions, but still wasn’t happy with my evolution so what did i do?

Adress the devs to change the mechanics of a profession to suit my gameplay? Hell no! Went straight back to my ranger, now i have a guardiant at 80, cool i manage. Then a Engie at 40ish and Ele at 20ish still deciding which but both make sense to me, not the mesmer though.

Now take the frickin’ hint! Most important and above all leave ranger the F! alone!

Edit: oh and for the… 5th? Time, add my name, i play EU let’s do whatever you want and i’ll show you how to manage a pet.
SPOILERK: the other 4 times nobody called my dare, i wonder why?… love to hate am i right?

Raven.9603:

You dont need to be condescending.

Tit for tat.

Taku.6352:

Wat?

Only place where ranger is handicapped at the moment is large scale zerg fighting in wvw. Other than that we are pretty much top tier in PvE and sPvP content.

HAHAHAHAHAHA, are you really playing GW2??

Traps are pretty useful in keeps.: In keeps?? perhaps 1vs1 , but against a zerg, traps are shyt.

Spirits are pretty useful in roaming.: yes, but if you enemy is smart your spirits die in 5 seconds.

AE barrage is pretty useful in slowing down runners.:and BTW retaliate kill you + rooted in place for 3-4 secs.

1500 range helps for the same reason.: oh yes, if you have 2 fingers to push Q or E , you can evade 99,9999% of arrows, tbh you only need 1 finger ……….

Ranger is Average in 1vs1 , bad in zerg , and Average in Pve.

ofc, ranger is really a OP class if you play against noobs.

-Ranger “special” mechanic: Pet
-Pet have 30% or more of our damage.
-Pet is Broken (crap AI, and we dont have a total control of our pets skills)
-Class is broken.

Can you use a Ranger in dungeons,WvW and sPvP? Yes, you can, but ranger class still need more love from Anet, and we only have nerfs.

Warrior banners work, spirits do not work. Banners cannot be destroyed, can be moved, are reliable, and are fit for purpose without any trait support. Job done. Let’s all embrace our banners and leave the spirits alone.

Argggggggh. Banners just buff. Spirits have very useful active abilities for zerg fights.
Getting a couple of AE blinds out every 30 seconds (if you run em up to the front line the spirit will often die AFTER you activate it triggering a second active with the trait).
AE chill x2? Not bad stuff.

I just don’t find my spirits dying in large zerg fights all that much when I play mid-range (sb/axe+warhorn).

When the mini zerg is “bigger” with lots of AE, I also tend to wait to cast the spirits versus having them always up. And my role is far more backline than frontline. So my weapons are almost always condition ranged (sb/axe+warhorn) with runes that allow me to stack might quickly. This is ESPECIALLY true when you face siege. You just don’t want the spirits up when running in. Remember, you can swap out the skills to “kill” the spirit and reset the timer.

Timing of when you put your spirits up in a zerg fight is critical.

How many ticks of the buff do you really need on 5 people to make a difference? I suggest a few pulses of 5 person protection can matter. Same with burn. I cast Stone Spirit when the fight needs to be tipped. I cast Sun Spirit early, to get extra damage and blind (to get an initial edge). They don’t die so fast that you can’t get the active off and at least get a set of buffs on 5 allies if you have them moved to 70% and double hps (if not don’t use them in zerg fights).

In zergs I also really want the active abilities more than the passive but it just depends on what the nature of the fight is.

Remember, pop the active BEFORE the pet dies (even if just before) and if you have the ability of activating it WHEN it dies, well that helps too. You can get quick AE blind, damage or crowd control off which really helps in zerg v zerg. You just need to get them into the fight by waiting to cast! They don’t have to last long to be effective. And how long is the refresh on your other utilities? I don’t mind having 2x (with the trait) some combo AE damage, blind, chill, and immobilize.

I also have a lot of AE regen and that helps them deliver a few extra buffs on the allies and a setup the actives.

There not pets. They are utility. They don’r really need to stay alive that long to be very useful.

The trouble is the mindset we all go in with too often which is that we always have our spirits up.

CETheLucid.3964:

thefantasticg.3984:

CETheSnowflake…. Sure, they can do well.

Oh wow. I didn’t expect you to actually admit you were BSing. Okay. Glad that’s out of the way? o.o

thefantasticg.3984:

If the Ranger class did so well then you’d see a lot more “LFG Ranger only” posts, but you don’t and for a reason.

I don’t see “LFG profession only” posts for anyone, expect for warriors and guardians, with the occasional mesmer for speed clears and high level fractals.

Interesting criteria for what makes a class “good”, it says a lot.

By this logic, Ranger is the best class because we can roll Lupicus in 41 seconds without warriors, guardians, and mesmers.

Right?

Good job on cutting my qoute, Snowflake. GG.

Now with that out of the way… Like I said the amount of skill it takes to do well on a Ranger means that if the same player takes up a less handicapped class they will excel that much more. Mince words all you want but if a player can use a Ranger and roll Lupi in 41 seconds, he can do better on a another class that doesn’t have a Lead Game Designer admitted mal functioning don’t know when it is going to get fixed class mechanic.

thefantasticg.3984:

CETheLucid.3964:

thefantasticg.3984:

CETheSnowflake…. Sure, they can do well.

Oh wow. I didn’t expect you to actually admit you were BSing. Okay. Glad that’s out of the way? o.o

thefantasticg.3984:

If the Ranger class did so well then you’d see a lot more “LFG Ranger only” posts, but you don’t and for a reason.

I don’t see “LFG profession only” posts for anyone, expect for warriors and guardians, with the occasional mesmer for speed clears and high level fractals.

Interesting criteria for what makes a class “good”, it says a lot.

By this logic, Ranger is the best class because we can roll Lupicus in 41 seconds without warriors, guardians, and mesmers.

Right?

Good job on cutting my qoute, Snowflake. GG.

Now with that out of the way… Like I said the amount of skill it takes to do well on a Ranger means that if the same player takes up a less handicapped class they will excel that much more. Mince words all you want but if a player can use a Ranger and roll Lupi in 41 seconds, he can do better on a another class that doesn’t have a Lead Game Designer admitted mal functioning don’t know when it is going to get fixed class mechanic.

Just keeping it relevant, Pumpkin. People can read. Your post is still there.

The rest of your post such as this one, the one before it, and I’m sure several posts going into your posting history is as follows: QQ pets.

We get it, baby! I’ve nothing to add to that more than I already have. Hence I did not respond to that bit that I should have quoted it.

I doubt I can help you or change your mind. So, well, cry some more about it? Take a spin on that motorbike? I dunno. Whatever helps you cope buddy.

geesh what a hate …

First of all, to me this isn’t a QQ pets suggestion, I am personally quite happy with my pets. And in about 80% of the game they are (to me) a welcome companion. Thing remains though that in 20% of the game, mainly boss fights (thus in PvE and Dungeons, and against a zerg) they are a true liability. And having 2 doesn’t even help, because they both die so soon that you just end up with the swap on full cool down.

So second, this isn’t to replace, it’s to add to the ranger. Nowhere did I mention that this should replace the current pets. Nopes, it should be an addition to the pet group, giving the ranger more options. And in such a way that the added options give the ranger more viability in area’s where it currently lacks.

Third, the suggestion is made in such a way that it adds to the ranger theme. Which (as once stated) was that they were more attuned to nature, and as such didn’t have a rifle/pistols to fight with. But in all honesty, the ranger has not become more attuned to nature, nor has it changed in 250y. It’s basically a limited rehash of the ranger from GW1 with an obligated pet instead of a choice…

Last, and in regards to that choice, there is no choice not to use the pet. This is something that more then anything bugs me the most. Almost all the classes I am somewhat familiar with (all but the Mesmer, which I am not to sure off), the player can pretty much ignore their class mechanic if they want to:

- An elementalist can stay in one attunement.
- A necro doesn’t have to go in deathshroud
- A warrior doesn’t have to use his agro attack
- A guardian can just put some passives up and forget about it
- A thief doesn’t have to rob ppl.
- An engineer can pretty much choose whether or not to use the extras.
- A Mesmer (not entirely sure) can play without illusions

A ranger though, is stuck to his pet, and has no options other then to deal with it. And for a large part of the gameplay it is penalized for having the pet die on him. And seeing the amount of boss fights being the actual fights in GW2. The ranger is thus penalized for the biggest part of the gameplay…

And all of that, why?! … this to me is a decent solution, that would fit the ranger theme, and I for one would still run a pet. A though, being 1, because for the 20% of the game where the pet is a liability, I would embrace a spirit instead…

Would be nice if people were less stubborn and cut the other guy some slack, or at least give them a choice, a choice for somebody else does not effect you and the choice you make, so why be so uptight about it? sigh (and yes in a sense that is also pointed at the Dev’s, who refuse to change a broken mechanic, or at least give player a way to work around it, if they choose to do so. I love you guys to bits, but really, on this issue I’m entirely baffled by the reluctance to add a minor thing that would solve an issue for a populous that run into area’s where this is an issue.)

Anyways, Merry Christmas, as far as Christmas wishes go: hope next year people will be more open to the options for others, for as far as they do not effect themselves.

thefantasticg.3984:

CETheSnowflake…. Sure, they can do well. Sadly, it takes a lot more effort to do well with a Ranger overcoming the AI shortcomings than it does on a class not shackled to a lackluster AI pet. Take someone who is fantastic on a Ranger, allow time for learning a new class, and they will be 10x more effective on a warrior, gaurdian, or mesmer as they are not crippled by having the pet.

If the Ranger class did so well then you’d see a lot more “LFG Ranger only” posts, but you don’t and for a reason.

The only time a pet is going to cripple you is WHEN YOU USE THE WRONG ONE IN THE WRONG PLACE.
L2PET, it is NOT rocketscience.

Devourers/Spiders for dungeons
Bears/Drakes/Devourers for open world content
Cats/Birds for burst situations
Dogs/Spiders for CC
Moas for open world melee
Bears/Spiders/Drakes/Dogs for WvW
Any pet you think works for PvP

choosing the right pet, IS AS IMPORTANT as choosing the right traits.

Prysin.8542:

thefantasticg.3984:

CETheSnowflake…. Sure, they can do well. Sadly, it takes a lot more effort to do well with a Ranger overcoming the AI shortcomings than it does on a class not shackled to a lackluster AI pet. Take someone who is fantastic on a Ranger, allow time for learning a new class, and they will be 10x more effective on a warrior, gaurdian, or mesmer as they are not crippled by having the pet.

If the Ranger class did so well then you’d see a lot more “LFG Ranger only” posts, but you don’t and for a reason.

The only time a pet is going to cripple you is WHEN YOU USE THE WRONG ONE IN THE WRONG PLACE.

Right-o because a class mechanic that doesn’t always work is good design in the first place…

Soilder.3607:

Prysin.8542:

thefantasticg.3984:

CETheSnowflake…. Sure, they can do well. Sadly, it takes a lot more effort to do well with a Ranger overcoming the AI shortcomings than it does on a class not shackled to a lackluster AI pet. Take someone who is fantastic on a Ranger, allow time for learning a new class, and they will be 10x more effective on a warrior, gaurdian, or mesmer as they are not crippled by having the pet.

If the Ranger class did so well then you’d see a lot more “LFG Ranger only” posts, but you don’t and for a reason.

The only time a pet is going to cripple you is WHEN YOU USE THE WRONG ONE IN THE WRONG PLACE.

Right-o because a class mechanic that doesn’t always work is good design in the first place…

Did you only read the part you linked? He gave a role for each pet, and each role has a pet. There is always a better pet for different situations, but I guess to you a bear is supposed to be as good as a bird or feline for a bursty build?

actually its dual cats for dungeons :p

Chokolata.1870:

actually its dual cats for dungeons :p

nice try, but nope. Cat’s won’t last 4 seconds against a boss

Actually , most dungeons where you would take a ranger in an optimized group they wont die .

You will still die to a 10/0/30/0/30 condi thief or a 20/20/30 pu condi mesmer. Speaking from a 1on1 perspective.

Rangers lack interactive gameplay, almost if not all the attacks a ranger has are very telegraphed and for the most part rely on automatic AI. Anybody knows how a ranger works knows exactly what the ranger needs to do whether it’s conditions or burst spec and when you can run an overpowered class like thief/mesmer you can simply counter that very play very easily.

Dungeon content is mindless, you can take any class into a dungeon and get the dungeon completed, whether it’s fractals 30 or cof path 1. Dungeon mobs don’t discriminate against the very telegraphed pvp gameplay the ranger brings to the table.

It is the way it is, until we get more interactivity to our class like being able to control ALL of our pet’s skills on f keys or other bindable key setup , more active condi removal and more ways to control our opponent that isn’t automated and actual burst that isn’t telegraphed and can be quicker/more readily available, ranger will always then fall into a bunker condition category where you’re playing the game of ‘keep getting fire and poison on them while pet does dmg automatically’ style which is easily countered nowadays since necros/condi mesmers have made people fearful and also more knowledgeable on condition handling.

I’ll also add torment and confusion are 2 of the single most kittened condition additions to this game but that’s a rant that can be saved for another discussion.

First off, don’t you just love it when you made a 45m/1h post detailing what you intend where you use all sorts of decent argumentation to make your point, to then be ignored and get somebody SHOUTING (as if I can’t read normal case), L2PET …

The only time a pet is going to cripple you is WHEN YOU USE THE WRONG ONE IN THE WRONG PLACE.
L2PET, it is NOT rocketscience.

Having said that, and not wanting to go into forum etiquettes as surely just after Christmas everybody has their belly filled with etiquettes…

Let’s respond to the argument instead:

Devourers/Spiders for dungeons
Bears/Drakes/Devourers for open world content
Cats/Birds for burst situations
Dogs/Spiders for CC
Moas for open world melee
Bears/Spiders/Drakes/Dogs for WvW
Any pet you think works for PvP

choosing the right pet, is as important (fixed that for you) as choosing the right traits.

‘Play how you want to play!’

That is what should be enough to pull this argument on it’s back. But I’ll even make it more specific. Half the pets don’t really appeal to me, and from those that do appeal to me, there are a couple that don’t fit my Ranger and how/what I want my character to ‘be’ on Tyria. You may consider a pet as just another tool that everybody needs to just ‘learn2play’ with, but for me (i’ll leave others out of it) personally, a pet choice is about as personal as any RL pet you choose.

And that is just the thing in this whole discussion, isn’kitten The pet (like any mechanic) needs to fulfil a multitude of uses as well as needs. And while you take the stance ‘L2Pet’ you can not deny that there are numerous other players that clearly see a faulty (sometimes even annoying) system, that can’t be worked around… which in all honesty is my biggest frustration about it, in some sense there are numerous situations where i’dd prefer to just not have a pet at all, and just do less damage.

But as you feel strong enough about this whole ‘L2pet’ thing that you need capitals to stress your point. Let me ask you another thing, I hope you will take the time to answer…
What is it to you? What is your personal problem with me being able to not use the pet? Really? If you know how to pet like a pro, then surely you won’t be using this suggestion (if ever they were to add this), so why does it bother you that I could?!?

Hopefully you can answer that to me, because I don’t get it? (not that I want to suggest you are like this) Just like I don’t get why people could be against something like gay marriage, as if somebody else being gay has some implication for them not being gay, and if this gay couple getting married has any implications for their marriage :/ … now obviously the scope is entirely different, but to me at least the issue is the same, why be against something that has absolutely no implications for yourself. I just… I don’t understand it

… and maybe if I could, I would be able to make better suggestions, or at least understand why you are against adding something that would solve a lot of issues, a lot of people have with something, while not effecting anybody else that can still do their own thing. Like f/e marry in a church, next to marrying for the state, an option that most gay couples wouldn’t even like to persue (in the case of gay marriages, which is not the point here btw, but I see similarities; which yes may say more about my brain then both the issues) but anyways, I just don’t understand, I again, would love to hear: ‘Why, you feel so strongly against this suggestion that will more then likely not even effect your own options and choices?’

add. I would like to add again, just in case I did not make this clear enough yet, or my English (non native) wasn’t good enough to stress this enough: that I do not imply that you would or could be against gay marriage just because you are also against this idea. This post just draws comparisons between these issues because ‘I’ see similarities, in how I view thing where people are against something that doesn’t really effect somebodies own choices and options, hope I made this clear enough not to offend anybody and in specific Prysin