Guild Wars 2

“Essentially, conditions are too effective right now without investing points into the condition-damage stat. We will significantly lower the base damage on damaging conditions while increasing how much they scale with the condition-damage stat. This means at lower levels of condition damage you can expect to do less damage than you currently do, while at higher values you’ll do even more damage than you are currently able to. The formulas are still being adjusted, but to give you an idea, the break-even point before you start doing more damage is around 700 condition damage.”
-somebody

No more zerker bow/gs stacking bleeds for degeneration ;-(
As people say I was just being silly (less polite words used) and they come around and smash my bleeds into ground I don’t know how to feel. Honestly, I may go back to condi warrior. That’s almost sinful.

Is there maybe a shortbow sinister build that has the potential for fun? Still…kitten is 700 condi a huge chunk to break even. Reminds me of the confusion nerf so long ago.

lols ok maybe I didn’t know what I was talking about since condi mesmers are still a thing but yeah…
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/RIP-Condition-Mesmers/first#post1945707

Well, at least our pets that have no condition damage will be even worse, and hardly better even if we take Expertise Training. There is that to look forward to…

Expertise training is going to need to be doubled.

I did run Sharpened Edges with glassbow at times purely because there was no other trait in Skirm adept that added damage, and it is handy for keeping people in combat for a couple of extra seconds, but the damage is negligible really.

Good change i say. Condi builds that didn’t put a single extra point in crit or ferocity don’t get like 30% crit chance with 30% extra damage on it for just being there.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Well, at least our pets that have no condition damage will be even worse, and hardly better even if we take Expertise Training. There is that to look forward to…

Expertise training is going to need to be doubled.

I did run Sharpened Edges with glassbow at times purely because there was no other trait in Skirm adept that added damage, and it is handy for keeping people in combat for a couple of extra seconds, but the damage is negligible really.

Yeah its a combination of traits, gear and skills that stacked together nicely, IMO anyhow.

I suspect pets are going to see something huge for change. I’m thinking something along the lines of:

1) choose range or melee
2) choose pet family
3) choose pet skin
4) choose skill package
5) choose stat package

Want a brown bear that is glassy and fears with a howl? Boom done.

Want a devourer that is condi/toughness/precision with spider venom? Boom done.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Good change i say. Condi builds that didn’t put a single extra point in crit or ferocity don’t get like 30% crit chance with 30% extra damage on it for just being there.

?

You mean free condi dmg as is /= fair?

Even condi builds have basic attack dmg, 4% crit chance and +50% crit damage.

Justine.6351:

?

He’s talking about vuln I believe.

Don’t forget that stats leaving base traits should make it a hell of a lot easier to break this threshold in condi dmg so I doubt it will be too bad for things like mad king rangers.

Justine.6351:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Well, at least our pets that have no condition damage will be even worse, and hardly better even if we take Expertise Training. There is that to look forward to…

Expertise training is going to need to be doubled.

I did run Sharpened Edges with glassbow at times purely because there was no other trait in Skirm adept that added damage, and it is handy for keeping people in combat for a couple of extra seconds, but the damage is negligible really.

Yeah its a combination of traits, gear and skills that stacked together nicely, IMO anyhow.

I suspect pets are going to see something huge for change. I’m thinking something along the lines of:

1) choose range or melee
2) choose pet family
3) choose pet skin
4) choose skill package
5) choose stat package

Want a brown bear that is glassy and fears with a howl? Boom done.

Want a devourer that is condi/toughness/precision with spider venom? Boom done.

Justine.6351:

?

You mean free condi dmg as is /= fair?

Even condi builds have basic attack dmg, 4% crit chance and +50% crit damage.

Which is 2% direct damage boost overall thanks to low crit chance.

Meanwhile bleeds, our main condi damage source start at 42.5 damage per tick right out of the box. That’s an amount equal to having 850 condi damage if bleeds started with 0 base damage and relied only on condi damage stat.

Math aside what i wanna say is that putting into a stat should have meanginful effects. And with condies having such high base damage there isn’t that much of reward for builds that go full condi vs builds that go hybrid, or low condi in exchange for other benefits.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Well, at least our pets that have no condition damage will be even worse, and hardly better even if we take Expertise Training. There is that to look forward to…

Expertise training is going to need to be doubled.

I did run Sharpened Edges with glassbow at times purely because there was no other trait in Skirm adept that added damage, and it is handy for keeping people in combat for a couple of extra seconds, but the damage is negligible really.

So the current bleed from pets without Expertise Training is like 43 ticks. I may be wrong but I think Anet is buffing pet bleed baseline to 86 ticks.

Source: http://i.imgur.com/VFtz017.jpg
Look at Rending Strikes. 516 damage over 6s.
516/6 = 86.

Pets need real base secondary stats, and not 0 + 350 if you trait.

kiwituatara.6053:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Well, at least our pets that have no condition damage will be even worse, and hardly better even if we take Expertise Training. There is that to look forward to…

Expertise training is going to need to be doubled.

I did run Sharpened Edges with glassbow at times purely because there was no other trait in Skirm adept that added damage, and it is handy for keeping people in combat for a couple of extra seconds, but the damage is negligible really.

So the current bleed from pets without Expertise Training is like 43 ticks. I may be wrong but I think Anet is buffing pet bleed baseline to 86 ticks.

Source: http://i.imgur.com/VFtz017.jpg
Look at Rending Strikes. 516 damage over 6s.
516/6 = 86.

Ah, well spotted mate!

87 damage on a bleed tick is 897 condition damage. I wonder if the tooltip is working correctly or if it is bugged to scale off the rangers condition damage. It could also, of course, just be 18 stacks of Might and Expertise Training.

If it is working correctly, HOORAY! Even if this is WITH Expertise Training, it is still a 5+5+0 (kitten filter) base condition damage, assuming no might stacks.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

kiwituatara.6053:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Well, at least our pets that have no condition damage will be even worse, and hardly better even if we take Expertise Training. There is that to look forward to…

Expertise training is going to need to be doubled.

I did run Sharpened Edges with glassbow at times purely because there was no other trait in Skirm adept that added damage, and it is handy for keeping people in combat for a couple of extra seconds, but the damage is negligible really.

So the current bleed from pets without Expertise Training is like 43 ticks. I may be wrong but I think Anet is buffing pet bleed baseline to 86 ticks.

Source: http://i.imgur.com/VFtz017.jpg
Look at Rending Strikes. 516 damage over 6s.
516/6 = 86.

Ah, well spotted mate!

87 damage on a bleed tick is 897 condition damage. I wonder if the tooltip is working correctly or if it is bugged to scale off the rangers condition damage. It could also, of course, just be 18 stacks of Might and Expertise Training.

If it is working correctly, HOORAY! Even if this is WITH Expertise Training, it is still a 5+5+0 (kitten filter) base condition damage, assuming no might stacks.

If I’m right. Lynx pet is gonna be so strong. High direct damage and high bleeds with vulnerability on autoattack. I hope they buff pet AI as well.

Condition mesmer is not a thing, it’s just a sect on the forums trying to spread the “word”.

kiwituatara.6053:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

kiwituatara.6053:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Well, at least our pets that have no condition damage will be even worse, and hardly better even if we take Expertise Training. There is that to look forward to…

Expertise training is going to need to be doubled.

I did run Sharpened Edges with glassbow at times purely because there was no other trait in Skirm adept that added damage, and it is handy for keeping people in combat for a couple of extra seconds, but the damage is negligible really.

So the current bleed from pets without Expertise Training is like 43 ticks. I may be wrong but I think Anet is buffing pet bleed baseline to 86 ticks.

Source: http://i.imgur.com/VFtz017.jpg
Look at Rending Strikes. 516 damage over 6s.
516/6 = 86.

Ah, well spotted mate!

87 damage on a bleed tick is 897 condition damage. I wonder if the tooltip is working correctly or if it is bugged to scale off the rangers condition damage. It could also, of course, just be 18 stacks of Might and Expertise Training.

If it is working correctly, HOORAY! Even if this is WITH Expertise Training, it is still a 5+5+0 (kitten filter) base condition damage, assuming no might stacks.

If I’m right. Lynx pet is gonna be so strong. High direct damage and high bleeds with vulnerability on autoattack. I hope they buff pet AI as well.

I doubt they will have base condition damage on pets with high direct damage, or they would be the clear choice above the rest. Not to mention OP. Hawk would be mind blowing-ly unreal with that kinda condition damage, Expertise Training and Rending Attacks. Fingers crossed

serenke.4806:

Condition mesmer is not a thing, it’s just a sect on the forums trying to spread the “word”.

Thank you for letting us know.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Justine.6351:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Well, at least our pets that have no condition damage will be even worse, and hardly better even if we take Expertise Training. There is that to look forward to…

Expertise training is going to need to be doubled.

I did run Sharpened Edges with glassbow at times purely because there was no other trait in Skirm adept that added damage, and it is handy for keeping people in combat for a couple of extra seconds, but the damage is negligible really.

Yeah its a combination of traits, gear and skills that stacked together nicely, IMO anyhow.

I suspect pets are going to see something huge for change. I’m thinking something along the lines of:

1) choose range or melee
2) choose pet family
3) choose pet skin
4) choose skill package
5) choose stat package

Want a brown bear that is glassy and fears with a howl? Boom done.

Want a devourer that is condi/toughness/precision with spider venom? Boom done.

Woah that would be nice. You make it or this already in a suggestion thread and I miss?
;-(

Yeah, it was a thread made by wondrouswall I think, there have been a few actually, that was my take on what the pet management should be.

Justine.6351:

“Essentially, conditions are too effective right now without investing points into the condition-damage stat. We will significantly lower the base damage on damaging conditions while increasing how much they scale with the condition-damage stat. This means at lower levels of condition damage you can expect to do less damage than you currently do, while at higher values you’ll do even more damage than you are currently able to. The formulas are still being adjusted, but to give you an idea, the break-even point before you start doing more damage is around 700 condition damage.”
-somebody

No more zerker bow/gs stacking bleeds for degeneration ;-(
As people say I was just being silly (less polite words used) and they come around and smash my bleeds into ground I don’t know how to feel. Honestly, I may go back to condi warrior. That’s almost sinful.

Is there maybe a shortbow sinister build that has the potential for fun? Still…kitten is 700 condi a huge chunk to break even. Reminds me of the confusion nerf so long ago.

lols ok maybe I didn’t know what I was talking about since condi mesmers are still a thing but yeah…
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/RIP-Condition-Mesmers/first#post1945707

You think this is bad? Poison volly is useless now for BS power/hybrid builds. 5 stacks of poison for 2 sec? With low condi damage it will even wont tick for much and no poison uptime for the heal debuff cry

Lethal Njection.8741:

Don’t forget that stats leaving base traits should make it a hell of a lot easier to break this threshold in condi dmg so I doubt it will be too bad for things like mad king rangers.

How does it become easier? I don’t think we are getting free condi dmg, healing power, ferocity from trait stat removal. Just likely the 4 main stats power,precision,toughness,vitality. The off stats will maybe be represented stronger through gear or maybe just a rebalance through mechanic like condi dmg is getting. Healing power is already stronger than a couple years ago. Ferocity likely staying same so is a discreet nerf to zerker. They say profession stat 50% baseline, 50% taking traitline but that just seems weird. I suspect it will end up requiring full traitline invest despite what they claim.

Justine.6351:

Lethal Njection.8741:

Don’t forget that stats leaving base traits should make it a hell of a lot easier to break this threshold in condi dmg so I doubt it will be too bad for things like mad king rangers.

How does it become easier? I don’t think we are getting free condi dmg, healing power, ferocity from trait stat removal. Just likely the 4 main stats power,precision,toughness,vitality. The off stats will maybe be represented stronger through gear or maybe just a rebalance through mechanic like condi dmg is getting. Healing power is already stronger than a couple years ago. Ferocity likely staying same so is a discreet nerf to zerker. They say profession stat 50% baseline, 50% taking traitline but that just seems weird. I suspect it will end up requiring full traitline invest despite what they claim.

The flat boost is for all stats(not sure about boon duration/condi duration tec..)
The profession mechanic stats(pet stats for ranger) is 50% defult now and 50% is in the NM trait line, its the “nature’s wrath” trait ATM.

And ya, with the new trait system, if u go into NM you must invest in the full trait line of NM.

LughLongArm.5460:

Justine.6351:

“Essentially, conditions are too effective right now without investing points into the condition-damage stat. We will significantly lower the base damage on damaging conditions while increasing how much they scale with the condition-damage stat. This means at lower levels of condition damage you can expect to do less damage than you currently do, while at higher values you’ll do even more damage than you are currently able to. The formulas are still being adjusted, but to give you an idea, the break-even point before you start doing more damage is around 700 condition damage.”
-somebody

No more zerker bow/gs stacking bleeds for degeneration ;-(
As people say I was just being silly (less polite words used) and they come around and smash my bleeds into ground I don’t know how to feel. Honestly, I may go back to condi warrior. That’s almost sinful.

Is there maybe a shortbow sinister build that has the potential for fun? Still…kitten is 700 condi a huge chunk to break even. Reminds me of the confusion nerf so long ago.

lols ok maybe I didn’t know what I was talking about since condi mesmers are still a thing but yeah…
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/RIP-Condition-Mesmers/first#post1945707

You think this is bad? Poison volly is useless now for BS power/hybrid builds. 5 stacks of poison for 2 sec? With low condi damage it will even wont tick for much and no poison uptime for the heal debuff cry

Call me crazy but I suspect they will address poison stacking as both duration AND dmg tics.

So a current poison 5sec @100 would maybe go down to 4sec @75 and combined with another 4sec poison @ 75 would increase duration to 8sec @ 150?

There is personal condi stacking as a build and there is zerg condi stacking so Bob can get his mob tags. It will be tricky as poisons true strength isn’t in its “zomg my poison tics for like 1k!”. But I suspect one class specialization will address this by making poison much much more deadly.

LughLongArm.5460:

Justine.6351:

Lethal Njection.8741:

Don’t forget that stats leaving base traits should make it a hell of a lot easier to break this threshold in condi dmg so I doubt it will be too bad for things like mad king rangers.

How does it become easier? I don’t think we are getting free condi dmg, healing power, ferocity from trait stat removal. Just likely the 4 main stats power,precision,toughness,vitality. The off stats will maybe be represented stronger through gear or maybe just a rebalance through mechanic like condi dmg is getting. Healing power is already stronger than a couple years ago. Ferocity likely staying same so is a discreet nerf to zerker. They say profession stat 50% baseline, 50% taking traitline but that just seems weird. I suspect it will end up requiring full traitline invest despite what they claim.

The flat boost is for all stats(not sure about boon duration/condi duration tec..)
The profession mechanic stats(pet stats for ranger) is 50% defult now and 50% is in the NM trait line, its the “nature’s wrath” trait ATM.

And ya, with the new trait system, if u go into NM you must invest in the full trait line of NM.

They claim this but I just think it’s going to get swept under the rug as unnecessary with generic excuse about buffing in other areas. In fact I’m surprised they are even giving 50% of the 4 mains for free. Just seems messy.

theyre nerfing celestial with this change. that’s the main intent. if some pointless, ineffective build that 5 people play is collateral damage, myself and the rest of the community is probably okay with that.

Yeah it’s unfortunate for celestial. No doubt this is because of another class inc, the revenant, that can potentially use celestial to full effect.

People hate fighting celestial builds but really, the celestial builds encourages playing with all skills and feeling like they are all worth something. There are weapon sets people identify as purely power (aka d/d thief) yet there is clearly potential for condi or hybrid. So d/d builds never use death blossom cause they choose to be d/d power and then say look " my death blossom does no dmg". To further the point, how many warriors use sword for something other then a pounce stick. It’s a travesty. Perfect hybrid weapon reduced to hoping around map faster because its not 100% power and not 100% condi.

the thing that bothers people about celestial is that it favours certain professions and gives them everything: mobility, tankiness, CC, damage, sustain, 1v1 capabilities, etc., while excluding others (ranger, thief, Mesmer, necro for example)

for cele to stand out, first of all it must be viable across all profs and secondly, it cant overshadow specialized bunker, support, or dps builds. with the upcoming change, at the very least its condi output will greatly decrease virtually fixing the whole thing.

Justine.6351:

To further the point, how many warriors use sword for something other then a pounce stick. It’s a travesty. Perfect hybrid weapon reduced to hoping around map faster because its not 100% power and not 100% condi.

I agreed with your post, but you’re completely wrong about warrior sword. 1) Every single PvP team in existence uses at least 1 warrior using it as a hybrid weapon. I’ll just leave it at point 1.

Fluffball.8307:

Justine.6351:

To further the point, how many warriors use sword for something other then a pounce stick. It’s a travesty. Perfect hybrid weapon reduced to hoping around map faster because its not 100% power and not 100% condi.

I agreed with your post, but you’re completely wrong about warrior sword. 1) Every single PvP team in existence uses at least 1 warrior using it as a hybrid weapon. I’ll just leave it at point 1.

Oh sorry. That’s good atleast. What is amulet they use?

Cele.

rip cele warriors and cele eles. good riddance. I found cele guards and engies to be perfectly balanced.

mistsim.2748:

rip cele warriors and cele eles. good riddance. I found cele guards and engies to be perfectly balanced.

They’ll probably stay. Using right now as a baseline, they go over the 700 condi mark limit quoted in the blog post once they reach about 8 stacks of might or so.

And neither is really there for the damage.

So what are ele going to use?

Fire, power/condi
Earth, condi/power
Air, power
Water, healing/power

Complain about celestial stat but what is going to be solid stat (or amulet in spvp) choice for ele. I’m asking as I don’t know. I’d be angry at having such a messy lineup of mishmash skills benefiting from different stats.

What I mean is, to make a glass cannon ele you would need 4 stat gear with power,precision,ferocity,condi dmg. You ask why cause fire,air = zerker and water doesn’t benefit from condi dmg. Makes earth magic the stepchild. But you may say, well some earth skills do benefit strongly from power builds. Okies. Good run power.

Why ever run condi on ele then? The only way condi is viable on ele is celestial. They just nerfed it by removing ~7HUNDRED condi dmg. That’s a huge hole. Oh might stacking…okies gg. So since ele gonna might stack anyhow for power build they still getting free condi dmg.

Ele are still going to use zerker or celestial stat. People getting wrecked by cele d/d are still going to get wrecked by cele d/d.

How did this devolve into cele ele? I don’t know, random roaming ;-)

Conclusions to topic: “my zerker bleeder no more ;-(”

1)You want glass power bleeder? Start running sinister.
2)Celestial gear may aswell come with +% might duration to compensate mf loss, ferocity shaving and now -700 condi hole.
3)Condi thieves got buffed.

This sounds like a good time to remove the damage portion from the pet, give it back to the ranger and only allow beastmasters to have damage on pets while sacrificing their own damage.

^birds track well and hit hard. with added stats, you might wanna keep the birds. baseline, their f2 crits about 4k on light armor and, 6.5k with 25 stacks of might and +30% crit damage. this is how hard the new condi BM bunkers will be hitting, in addition to their massive condi damage.