Guild Wars 2

Current Skills of Ranger Longbow:

• [#1] Long Range Shot ¾ Shoot your foe from long range. The farther the arrow flies, the more damage it does.
• [#2] Rapid Fire 4½ 10sec Fire multiple arrows at your foe.
• [#3] Hunter’s Shot 12sec Fire an arrow that grants you stealth when it hits an enemy. Your pet gains swiftness.
• [#4] Point Blank Shot ½ 15sec Push back your foe with a point-blank shot. The closer they are, the farther it pushes them back.
• [#5] Barrage 2¾ 30sec Barrage the target area with a hail of arrows that cripple.

We had a nice update, but it has an epic fail anyway.
Hunter’s Shot gives stealth that pet’s attack brakes. Rofl?
Please read the whole post, and ask for more accurate description/opinion if you don’t understand something.

The way I would ballance

• [#1] Long Range Shot ¾ Shoot your foe from long range. The farther the arrow flies, the more damage it does @ base of 1500 Range. Next shot starts when arrow hits the target within its activation time! Bit improved base damage values.
• [#2] Rapid Fire 4½ 10sec Fire multiple arrows at your foe @ 1200 Range. Minor Bleeding or something instead of Vulnerability.
• [#3] Hunter’s Shot 12sec Applies 10 stacks of Vulnerability. Fire a shot that strikes for more damage the less health your target has @ 1200 Range
• [#4] Point Blank Shot ½ 15sec Push back your foe with a point-blank shot. The closer they are, the farther it pushes them back. Grants you 5sec stealth when it hits.
  (Pet’s damage don’t breaking it any longer) 900 Range
• [#5] Barrage 2¾ 30sec Barrage the target area with a hail of arrows that cripple.

Now I’ll explain why…
You may say its OP. No, its not, whatever you say. Long range isn’t a guarantee.
Most of the classes can appear in your face within seconds, just as Risens does.
I’m a bow user myself (IRL!), and the hit distances of a so-called bow specialist are far less than anyone who can shoot a bow properly – and it’s a fantasy game!
(Not to mention the 1 year old unreasonable “Out of Range” & “Obstructed” & “Miss” bugs we still getting)
So a base of 1500 dmg would be essential at Long Range Shot. On Rapid Fire, the current range is good and has logical reasons. A minor bleeding would be nice tho.

Now the Hunter’s Shot…
I wish it to be two sided skill that has reason to use in skirmishing. It should work at Harpoon Gun’s Mercy Shot with the old Vulnerability setting. Why? When you’re skirmishing, you can decide to shoot this skill as start, damaging the foe with vulnerability on & smaller amount of dmg.
Or you can shoot it as an execute skill near the end. It will dmg more, and if the target isn’t dead yet, you can continue damaging it more effectively with the vulnerability on.

And the Point Blank Shot…
This push-back skill is nice to mantain distance, but it also should be a two-sided skill as Hunter’s Shot. You pushed your foe back, and having 5 seconds of Stealth.
Its up to you to run away safety or strike one more time in hope of victory.
Sounds perfect, right?

New skills will be a nice update, but I prefer re-designs of current ones for multiple uses. We played a lot MMOs & RPGs, and most of them had simple effects on the skills, but I can’t mention any game that had “opportunity trees” when attacking.
GW2, as a Revolutionary MMO – should brake the ice.

Additional Update goals for the future:

• Bow running/holding re-animations
• Dodge re-animations
• GS Swoop: Damaging foes with the blade on the way.
• Axe auto-attack should be like sword’s.
• Axe should have multiple-hit bouncing attack skill instead of skill #2.
• Fixing “Missed” and other kind of bugs.
• More hack’n’slash like animations.
• Pet AI rework & Reanimation for the illusion
• Pet skills redesign to be reasonable and logical

.[iR] RANGER Redesign

Pet attack doesn’t break stealth.

So basically, you want to make rangers overpowered.
Hunters shot doesn’t mess with the pet in any way and the pet doesn’t mess with hunters shot either.

What breaks stealth is:
1) autoattack: Don’t use it, if you want to stealth, there will be arrows in the air when you gain stealth and when they hit, you will be visible again.
2) barrage: stealth gained while a barrage rains down typically won’t last long.
3) traps: flame trap, venom trap and spike trap will reveal you.
4) axe bounces, whatever: If you just swapped in, while projectiles of any other weapon are still in the air, they might break your stealth, too.

And why you want axe auto attack to be some glitchy leap, which can not be dodged out of is beyond me.

naphack.9346:

So basically, you want to make rangers overpowered.
Hunters shot doesn’t mess with the pet in any way and the pet doesn’t mess with hunters shot either.

What breaks stealth is:
1) autoattack: Don’t use it, if you want to stealth, there will be arrows in the air when you gain stealth and when they hit, you will be visible again.
2) barrage: stealth gained while a barrage rains down typically won’t last long.
3) traps: flame trap, venom trap and spike trap will reveal you.
4) axe bounces, whatever: If you just swapped in, while projectiles of any other weapon are still in the air, they might break your stealth, too.

And why you want axe auto attack to be some glitchy leap, which can not be dodged out of is beyond me.

I think he wants it to be melee, not a glitchy leap.

It does seem bizarre that an attack that took place before stealth would trigger reveal, especially traps. I was aware of it from playing a thief, I just didn’t think about it until now.

Keep in mind, they want to make longbow a power weapon. Don’t add stuff like bleeds to it. Also, they actually can’t make 1500 its base range, considering there’s a trait to buff that. They stated in SOTG that anything over 1500 range is gamebreaking.

I agree the skills still need more work, but those suggestions won’t cut it.

while i can agree with the stealth going over to the KB shot, i must say that getting vulnerability back on Hunter’s Shot is a bit of a “step in the wrong direction”.

Sure 10 stacks at the start was nice, but i’d rather have something else there. The current idea of Rapid Fire applying vulnerability makes it very strong when fighting smaller crowds. Also, unlike what people think, using piercing arrows on LB is quite powerful. Due to the sheer damage the auto attack can do. A glass cannon build can at range, destroy a zerg by just spamming auto attack into it. I’d rather take poison or torment on Hunters Shot over vulnerability.

Razor.9872:

Keep in mind, they want to make longbow a power weapon. Don’t add stuff like bleeds to it. Also, they actually can’t make 1500 its base range, considering there’s a trait to buff that. They stated in SOTG that anything over 1500 range is gamebreaking.

I agree the skills still need more work, but those suggestions won’t cut it.

yes because the current LB range is NOT 1500, its 1800 if fired manually. Only 2 skills stop working at 1500 while traited, Barrage and Knockback shot.

The only way they can “not” break the game is to increase range to 1500, and remove the trait that gives it 300 additional range. It is not hard to do. But it would allow the longbow to outshine any other ranged attack in the game, from the moment you used it. That is the issue. Low level content with a fully traited longbow does not behave/play out properly

The basic point of this topic is about Hunter’s Shot & Point Blank Shot.

• I don’t know what would gamebreaking in more than 1500 range, but eagle eye is a huge luxury in some of the viable builds – so we’re not sure to use it. Anyway, who said Eagle Eye should give the same buff? It can be +75 range & +2% Crtitical Chance, or whatever!
• These values designed for level80+ end contents. Prysin is right: Downscaled areas are always more easy as an inspiration and a logical reason.
• Glitchy sword hitting is an unfixed bug amongst a lot of others. Yes, I wish it to be melee.
• Stealth needed for hunter gamestyle. But I say the wrong skill had updated.

Anyway, I believe there is a bug with the arrow range. It can move on range 0 to ~1800…
You can test it out in LA’s Dummies.

What I’m trying to reveal here is the new generation skills/spells.
The more case you can use a skill, the more viable builds can born and the more fun it gives to us.

The goal should be to make Longbow feel like a unique weapon. Leave conditions on shortbow and let longbow remain the power alternative.

1 – Slightly increased damage for the 0-900 range. 901-max range has an additional 10% chance to crit or a +30% crit damage bonus.

2 – Change the channel down to 3-3.5 seconds. Leave vuln here. The channel time is the real DPS killer.

3 – 1.5 second channel aimed shot that deals very high damage

4 – I agree and this is where I would have put stealth if I hit myself on the head and thought stealth was needed in the first place.

5 – Nothing wrong with barrage. A shorter channel I’d be cool with though.

Marksmanship
Minor Trait 1: Pet and Ranger gain opening strikes
Minor Trait 2: Opening Strikes have a 100% chance to crit.
Minor Trait 3: Piercing Arrows

that’s where I would start.

Not just unique, but a strong direct dmg weapon.
For conditions and ninja, there is a shortbow.

I really hope they change the skills ~ as I’ve mentioned.
The current state isn’t acceptable IMO – we have 2 unchangeable fallback skill on a weapon that we should use for fighting, not running away from death.

RoyalPredator.9163:

• [#1] Long Range Shot ¾ Shoot your foe from long range. The farther the arrow flies, the more damage it does @ base of 1500 Range. Bit improved base damage values.

I would move the current highest damage to the lowest range and give bonus if you keep your target at range

• [#2] Rapid Fire 4½ 10sec Fire multiple arrows at your foe @ 1200 Range. Minor Bleeding.

Adding bleed to a white damage skill will cause white damage to be reduced

• [#3] Hunter’s Shot 12sec Applies 10 stacks of Vulnerability. Fire a shot that strikes for more damage the less health your target has @ 1200 Range

Flip it around, more damage if target has more health (this one is opinion)

• [#4] Point Blank Shot ½ 15sec Push back your foe with a point-blank shot. The closer they are, the farther it pushes them back. Grants you 5sec stealth when it hits.
  (Pet’s damage don’t breaking it any longer)

The good thing with stealth on hunter’s shot is that you can refresh remorseless and keep applying vulnerability. Placing stealth on a knockback is not wise because it will force you to give up on the ability to escape in order to apply more vulnerability

• [#5] Barrage 2¾ 30sec Barrage the target area with a hail of arrows that cripple.

Reduce cooldown to 25sec, increase damage. This is the only ranged AoE we have and the answer to what’s special with rangers should include “Their barrage”. This skill, simply put, should be a pain in the ** for the enemies.*

if they do something with garbage… sorry, barrage i will be happy with lb.
all we need now: something whats not pet. pets useless in wvw (or give me a siege devouler!! yeah)
something with spirits (useless in big combats)
we have too much traits what we need to be a good bowman.

I don’t get you Sorlik…
By placing Stealth on Point Blank Shot, you’re not forced to do anything, just have two option to go. Continue hitting the target who had a little bit disoriented, or run away safety.

Hunter’s Shot has no logic to have Stealth when the LB skills are not so suitable in most of the situations.

My pet attacks have never broken stealth. Then again, maybe my pet is dead before it reaches the target or they just continually miss? Both separate problems in itself if that’s the case.

Things I would change though: re-instate barrage’s damage to where it was before.. there was no reason to nerf it to begin with.

I’ve figured this issue out. Pet’s attack ability (F2) counts as player attack sometimes.

I’m stull up for the Longbow skills fix/upgrade too…

Atherakhia.4086:

The goal should be to make Longbow feel like a unique weapon. Leave conditions on shortbow and let longbow remain the power alternative.

1 – Slightly increased damage for the 0-900 range. 901-max range has an additional 10% chance to crit or a +30% crit damage bonus.

2 – Change the channel down to 3-3.5 seconds. Leave vuln here. The channel time is the real DPS killer.

3 – 1.5 second channel aimed shot that deals very high damage

4 – I agree and this is where I would have put stealth if I hit myself on the head and thought stealth was needed in the first place.

5 – Nothing wrong with barrage. A shorter channel I’d be cool with though.

Marksmanship
Minor Trait 1: Pet and Ranger gain opening strikes
Minor Trait 2: Opening Strikes have a 100% chance to crit.
Minor Trait 3: Piercing Arrows

that’s where I would start.

Are there currently any minor traits that are as weapon specific as Piercing Arrows would be in that position? I guess it would cover two weapons for the ranger… just seems odd?

Really what I would want if we are futzing with the minor’s is take your suggested minor’s for 1 and 2, then put Remorseless as the 3rd minor. I’ve never really liked it as a end of the line Major, even with it’s change now. Doesn’t seem to have enough impact to me to justify that kind of slot.

I’d also roll Eagle Eye into the longbow by default and get rid of the trait.

The only concern I would have with remorseless as a minor trait, even if it’s the grandmaster one, is that the stealth can be quite powerful in certain situations. An auto-critting maul for example is a serious hit and in that scenario, remorseless could be considered too powerful for a minor trait. If it were only used on auto attacks then obviously the trait probably isn’t worthy of anything beyond an adept trait.

But you’re right, allowing Piercing arrow to be a trait would set new ground as far as minors go as I can’t think of any that really focus on specific weapons.

Eh, I don’t really see how Remorseless could be too powerful in that regard. If an auto-crit on maul was really that fearsome, we would probably see a few more Sigils of Intelligence.

The entire Opening Strike line of minors basically needs Remorseless to actually like… work. It’s not a game changing trait like most of the other Grandmaster slots. It’s just… meh.

Really the big problem would be figuring out what could replace it and compete with Signet of the Beastmaster. Probably need something brand new. No idea what.

/shrug

As with most players who don’t like the current version of Hunter’s Shot, I don’t think you fully understand the uses for the stealth, or the downside of having several skills that are always recharging.

Stealth is useful for more then just running away, it can also be used to get closer to your foe (as when switching to a melee weapon), it can make your foe lose targeting on you, or it can simply help you change positioning. Point Blank Shot has other uses, like knocking a foe off a cliffside, pushing a foe back into AoE fields, interrupting a foe, or “immobilising” a foe to get free hits in. Stealth and knockback have two completely different uses, so a combination of the two is not favourable. Especially seeing as you could miss that one shot, leaving you with no alternative. There is also a learning curve to using stealth for the Ranger. The pet does not reveal you, neither does condition damage (like Frost Trap). Only direct damage dealt by you, will reveal you. You also have to be mindful of shots you have fired, that still haven’t hit a target yet, or traps that are using direct damage. For instance, using Hunter’s Shot after Barrage is a bad idea, as the damage from Barrage will instantly reveal you. Similarly, placing down Viper’s Nest, and then using Hunter’s Shot, will also reveal you, because Viper’s Nest will still be dealing direct damage. A simple auto-attack on a target at max range, can also be delayed to the point where the stealth from Hunter’s Shot will trigger (provided that it hits a target that’s closer to you), before the auto-attack shot has reach its target. So there is a learning curve, even though it’s just one stealth skill.

Having vulnerability on Hunter’s Shot, means it will always be recharging, because it makes sense to always use the vulnerability on your foe first. This means that when you use the longbow, you always have one skill less. And since the natural follow up is to use Rapid Fire, to maximise damage, that will also be recharging, leaving you with only two skills left. But an even bigger downside of the old Hunter’s Shot, was missing your target, as it would mean those ten stacks of vulnerability would be wasted. Having the vulnerability on Rapid Fire makes a lot more sense, as missing one shot of Rapid Fire, doesn’t mean you’ll lose all the stacks of vulnerability. It also means that you only have to use Rapid Fire as your initial attack, as Hunter’s Shot is now a situational skill, that you aren’t forced to use.

Further more, the old longbow was the only weapon of the Ranger, that only had one utility skill. Now that it has two, it fits the movement oriented playstyle of the Ranger, similarly to the other weapons.

I know exactly how to use Stealth – I’m a Predator, see?
But you have right and a nice post. Sadly, people can’t handle it most of the times.
I’m only suggesting reasonable and dual-usage skills as OP. ^^

heh i don’t even..

Taking in count the range and cc longbow has it’s crazy powerful already. Both bows are ridiculously good weapons atm.

If ranger bows are “ridiculously good”, how come a warrior doing more damage with LB, or most of the offensive classes needs mutch less time to kill the same enemies?

New patch in Aug.6….
Will they fix this Hunter’s Shot “mistake”?

In my oppinion the LB should be an AoE CC weapon and the SB a fast shooting condition weapon.

I would swap “volley” and “rapid fire” and change the poison to chill or cripple.

And for the SB, make the bleeding chance 100% from everywhere.

Well, the best would be if we can use bows like back in GW1, where bows had a tier and it only changed the firerate+distance hidden stat, and our build was the responsible what to do with it. It was logical, realistic and simply good.

Now in this system, LB and SB are different. The Ranger community wants LB for mostly DMG/Burst, and SB for rapid fire & condition dealing. I’ll update the rework tomorrow in the [iR] RANGER Redesign topic.