Guild Wars 2

Holland.9351:

They have to reduce pet damage as much as required so Rangers can have the full effect of power on their skills. Then they can keep the current system as-is.

This is the second time I’ve heard this rumor about gear/trikets affecting pets.
Where is this coming from?? I just want to make sure someone’s not spreading it around in game just to troll people… (like they often do when they claim there’s a secret Epic boss/chest at the end of some Event that everyones already done 100x)

ilr.9675:

Stop trying to make this one into just another Mage that summons a critter in place of a meteor shower or hundred blade storm, and then suffers no consequences for the care and positioning of that critter.

I think I can understand you sentiment, however, I don’t think it’s as easy as summoning a creature in place of a direct attack or spell, like the Mesmer, for example. The reason being is that the pet itself is completely fallible. Pathing issues, skill animation, and general AI problems prevent it from being so simple. Melee pets, unlike phantasms, have to get up to their targets, wading through attacks, and AoEs as a result. You can’t stop a meteor shower once it has been cast. You can stop a 100blades, however, that attack can be placed, exactly when and where the controlling player wants. It also scales better, for better or for worse, with the player’s stats.

The problems are: the AI sucks, ANet insists on balancing the entire game around an CP based aspect where most of the game revolves around a more TDM style gameplay even though they already have a system to separate the two in place. Finally, they balance the rangers damage and utility around a mechanic that is not always available which, to the best of my knowledge, is not something the other classes have to suffer.

ilr.9675:

jcbroe.4329:

Regardless of whether we saw it coming or not, its still an infinitely disappointing thing to discuss.

Well I’ll agree with you there.

I just don’t see ANY evidence in their history on this scale of them ever completely repurposing any class from its original design or intended downsides. Elementalist is as close as it gets where it eventually (and unintentionally) became the weakest DPS’er due to Hardmode Armor Values, and then Stumme (b/c it was his main class and he was honest about that) kind of turned it into a Team-Buffing class with several team Utility changes that were unlike anything it had in the past. But that came so late in the game’s life that it shouldn’t even count. (plus it was obviously meant to support their Mercenaries cash shop deal).

I do think some major about-face is required here for PvE. But I also think there’s better ways to isolate this problem that won’t just turn Ranger into another Warrior clone. If your positional awareness of what your pet is doing, and what control and how successful your control is… timing wise… isn’t good, then you shouldn’t just be getting a free ride here on that DPS that’s missing otherwise. Every other class is also supposed to have situational THINGS that limit their DPS when they don’t play to their full potential. And your ideas I’m sorry to say…. just remove that entire skill-check from the game and make the class just an Ele/Warrior clone. That’s why I keep saying… if you want THAT playstyle, then roll one of those classes please.

Stop trying to make this one into just another Mage that summons a critter in place of a meteor shower or hundred blade storm, and then suffers no consequences for the care and positioning of that critter.

I don’t want that playstyle at all. I actually enjoy the pet system. I was just suggesting a band aid fix that could be updated in conjunction with traits to allow for a more robust system to be developed in the future that doesn’t drastically change the effectiveness of the class acrossed game modes. More so, in a general sense, I just find the ranger class mechanic to be a logically hard concept to balance without being able to split mechanics across gametypes; something that either ANet is unwilling to do, or something their current system is incapable of.

I’m just saying SOMETHING needs to be done, because the current system isn’t working, and I was trying to brainstorm an idea that people like as a whole, to incorporate multiple playstyles. Realistically, all that needs to be done is an implementation that allows viable build variety for condition specs, power specs, survival and glass.

I’m always going to be happy with my ranger because I find lots of success with the playstyle in general, and I find that ranger still has the ability to build for high survival while still outputting good damage with a fluent playstyle better than any other class I play except for maybe ele.

But to answer the question about an entire rework, didn’t guild wars 1 do that with the dervish? When they changed Mysticism to function like Expertise? (granted it was a PvE change) Also, flash enchantments, etc. I mean, they weren’t farfetched, but were massive quality of life improvements for the classes they affected.
I thought they also had to overhaul the pet system in guild wars 1 too.

ilr.9675:

Holland.9351:

They have to reduce pet damage as much as required so Rangers can have the full effect of power on their skills. Then they can keep the current system as-is.

This is the second time I’ve heard this rumor about gear/trikets affecting pets.
Where is this coming from?? I just want to make sure someone’s not spreading it around in game just to troll people… (like they often do when they claim there’s a secret Epic boss/chest at the end of some Event that everyones already done 100x)

I don’t know the exacts and I lost the thread (it might be on jubskies compilation page). I know Puandro knows a lot about this type of stuff, so he’s the guy to ask, but rangers have low damage coefficients on their weapons to compensate for “always having a pet” for the other part of the damage.

Personally, on a side note, without misdirecting the thread too much, I think that the biggest thing ranger lacks in is access to AoE damage beyond traps. From a pvp perspective, ranger has kitten ons and less group support than other classes, which turns them into a damage class on a team comp. With barely any AoE access, rangers can barely add anything to teamfights, which relegates them to only being able to play sidepoints, something that other classes can do while being able to support their team at mid better than ranger.
That or that AoE nerf mentioned back in december needs to actually happen…

ChillyChinaman.6057:

ilr.9675:

Stop trying to make this one into just another Mage that summons a critter in place of a meteor shower or hundred blade storm, and then suffers no consequences for the care and positioning of that critter.

I think I can understand you sentiment, however, I don’t think it’s as easy as summoning a creature in place of a direct attack or spell, like the Mesmer, for example. The reason being is that the pet itself is completely fallible. Pathing issues, skill animation, and general AI problems prevent it from being so simple. Melee pets, unlike phantasms, have to get up to their targets, wading through attacks, and AoEs as a result. You can’t stop a meteor shower once it has been cast. You can stop a 100blades, however, that attack can be placed, exactly when and where the controlling player wants. It also scales better, for better or for worse, with the player’s stats.

The problems are: the AI sucks, ANet insists on balancing the entire game around an CP based aspect where most of the game revolves around a more TDM style gameplay even though they already have a system to separate the two in place. Finally, they balance the rangers damage and utility around a mechanic that is not always available which, to the best of my knowledge, is not something the other classes have to suffer.

There are melee phantasms, and they seem to do just fine. Remember the berserker and swordsman (GS and OH Sword, respectively)?

ilr.9675:

Holland.9351:

They have to reduce pet damage as much as required so Rangers can have the full effect of power on their skills. Then they can keep the current system as-is.

This is the second time I’ve heard this rumor about gear/trikets affecting pets.
Where is this coming from??

I did not say that at all. To be clear: gear/trinkets do NOT affect pets.

However, Rangers’s skills are less affected by power than other classes, because Rangers have a pet that can do damage too. So Rangers are power-handicapped and the pet has to make up for it.

That’s why the Bunker BM with Apothecary gear worked so well. It allows Rangers to avoid power like the plaque. The buffed pet deals the power/crit damage (30 points in BM) and the ranger grabs the healing, toughness and condition damage (Apothecary).

Unholy Pillager.3791:

ChillyChinaman.6057:

ilr.9675:

Stop trying to make this one into just another Mage that summons a critter in place of a meteor shower or hundred blade storm, and then suffers no consequences for the care and positioning of that critter.

I think I can understand you sentiment, however, I don’t think it’s as easy as summoning a creature in place of a direct attack or spell, like the Mesmer, for example. The reason being is that the pet itself is completely fallible. Pathing issues, skill animation, and general AI problems prevent it from being so simple. Melee pets, unlike phantasms, have to get up to their targets, wading through attacks, and AoEs as a result. You can’t stop a meteor shower once it has been cast. You can stop a 100blades, however, that attack can be placed, exactly when and where the controlling player wants. It also scales better, for better or for worse, with the player’s stats.

The problems are: the AI sucks, ANet insists on balancing the entire game around an CP based aspect where most of the game revolves around a more TDM style gameplay even though they already have a system to separate the two in place. Finally, they balance the rangers damage and utility around a mechanic that is not always available which, to the best of my knowledge, is not something the other classes have to suffer.

There are melee phantasms, and they seem to do just fine. Remember the berserker and swordsman (GS and OH Sword, respectively)?

I don’t play Mesmer myself, but don’t those spells summon the Phantasm on top of their target? If I remember correctly, didn’t berserker spawn on walls when assaulting keeps at one time?

MH sword has a clone that spawns on you and leaps to the target, and OH sword has a phantasm that does that.

ilr.9675:

jcbroe.4329:

Regardless of whether we saw it coming or not, its still an infinitely disappointing thing to discuss.

Well I’ll agree with you there.

I just don’t see ANY evidence in their history on this scale of them ever completely repurposing any class from its original design or intended downsides. Elementalist is as close as it gets where it eventually (and unintentionally) became the weakest DPS’er due to Hardmode Armor Values, and then Stumme (b/c it was his main class and he was honest about that) kind of turned it into a Team-Buffing class with several team Utility changes that were unlike anything it had in the past. But that came so late in the game’s life that it shouldn’t even count. (plus it was obviously meant to support their Mercenaries cash shop deal).

I do think some major about-face is required here for PvE. But I also think there’s better ways to isolate this problem that won’t just turn Ranger into another Warrior clone. If your positional awareness of what your pet is doing, and what control and how successful your control is… timing wise… isn’t good, then you shouldn’t just be getting a free ride here on that DPS that’s missing otherwise. Every other class is also supposed to have situational THINGS that limit their DPS when they don’t play to their full potential. And your ideas I’m sorry to say…. just remove that entire skill-check from the game and make the class just an Ele/Warrior clone. That’s why I keep saying… if you want THAT playstyle, then roll one of those classes please.

Stop trying to make this one into just another Mage that summons a critter in place of a meteor shower or hundred blade storm, and then suffers no consequences for the care and positioning of that critter.

I have some issues with your view here. First of all, they did rework dervishes on this scale, and dervishes were far less clunky and flawed than GW2 rangers. What I want for them to do is to make a new group of pets which, instead of attacking or being attacked, would give passive and active buffs which would bring the ranger’s own utility and damage up to where the other classes are, without allowing the pet to be killed due to poor mechanics and lack of control.

You may want to force rangers to engage in 10 times as much micromanagement as any other class just to have the same effectiveness, but you’re missing the other problems: you can’t melee without giving up the only method you have for getting your pet out of nasty AoE (kittenty and inefficient as it is, it’s all we have), and ranged combat is underpowered in the game in general and even more so with rangers; pets cannot attack while moving and therefore miss a lot; the F2 skill is slow and clumsy to use; pets lack the evasion and blocking, despite these being the most important method of preventing incoming damage; you cannot instruct your pet to move to a specific area, and now the leash range that this last patch claimed to have fixed appears bugged.

The problem I have with the pet system isn’t that we suffer consequences for not looking after our pets (although they should have made the class with pets as optional rather than mandatory, for those who favor a precise archer but don’t care for pets), it’s the fact that we get punished for things that we have no control over. You see the champion you’re fighting charging up a powerful attack…and there isn’t a kitten thing that you can possibly do to prevent your pet from losing half its health bar instantly, because pets don’t have evade or block. Ranger melee skills are extremely mobile, which is nice…except that it causes your enemies to move, in order to follow you. Since pets can’t hit moving targets reliably, you get a DPS drop of ~20-40% whenever you hold aggro instead of your pet. Even if you can manage aggro perfectly, you get a choice between losing a third of your DPS (pet dying), or losing a third of your DPS (pet unable to hit enemy). This is a game which requires much more movement and positioning than GW1, yet we are forced to rely on an AI companion over which we have far less control than we did heroes (which had plenty of issues of their own, even in the comparatively static GW1 combat system).

I don’t want to see us become a mesmer clone with animals instead of illusions either, but at least if that happened we wouldn’t be punished for failing to keep the pet alive in situations which make it impossible to do so, nor would we be punished with a DPS drop when the only way to keep your pet alive is to keep them on passive.

Informality.1279:

Tywele.7812:

This idea would fix the core difference between ranger and other classes. Our class mechanic is currently an essential part of our class, but for all other classes the class mechanic is an additional part for the class.

I actually really, really don’t like that idea at all. A part of why I chose the Ranger is because of the constant companion at my side. If that became reality, I would likely completely lose interest in my Ranger which is my main character.

The constant companion is something you take on when you choose Ranger — every class has one definable thing that makes them stand out. If the Ranger lost that, it would lose one of it’s biggest purposes. “Summoning” the pet would be terrible and holds the same idea as the Necromancer has for skills. That would completely nerf the Ranger I think.

That’s the just the problem though. The pet is a forced class mechanic for Ranger, and it’s broken. You say that you would lose interest in the class without it, but many other players already have because the class is so broken around this terribly functioning AI disaster(the pet).

no pet when ppls dont run with beastmaster 10-30
and much dmg when put points in marsmanship and skirmishing.

ppls who are not interested in pet dont put points in beastmastery and can have fun.
ppls who whant play there beasmaster have the same game like always…
maybe full pet controll whould be nice! for more self skill use

i never used my pet in gw1 and ranger was my favourite class…

It is very simple when you consider it, Ranger players did not sign up for a class that is weaker then any other. Which it is, their is nothing the player can do to stop it, If we call back our pet to save it, we lose 30-40% DPS, if the boss or champ uses a move that the PLAYER has to avoid, the pet Can Not do so, so it gets hurt or killed, thus losing 30-40% DPS, if we Kite, we lose 30-40% DPS. as pets cant hit moving targets, pets cant dodge AoE, Pets cant smartly attack targets and know to stay out of “fire” Pets will willingly run through poison, traps, flames, and all sorts of nastieness. so in the end no matter what the PLAYER does, the Ranger loses 30-40 % of their total DPS at some point in a fight, their is no other class that has so much DPS lost on a mechanic that they basically have no control over, the only way to keep the kitten pet alive is to keep it on passive. and guess what. that loses… you guessed it. 30-40% of DPS. i picked a ranger to be an expert at range. not to babysit a broken Ai that i would gladly kill off and do without. i dont need the pet. i need my DPS to be equivalent to other classes.

I like this idea, and I would definitely like to give the concept a test run. +1

yuri.2017:

It is very simple when you consider it, Ranger players did not sign up for a class that is weaker then any other. Which it is, their is nothing the player can do to stop it, If we call back our pet to save it, we lose 30-40% DPS, if the boss or champ uses a move that the PLAYER has to avoid, the pet Can Not do so, so it gets hurt or killed, thus losing 30-40% DPS, if we Kite, we lose 30-40% DPS. as pets cant hit moving targets, pets cant dodge AoE, Pets cant smartly attack targets and know to stay out of “fire” Pets will willingly run through poison, traps, flames, and all sorts of nastieness. so in the end no matter what the PLAYER does, the Ranger loses 30-40 % of their total DPS at some point in a fight, their is no other class that has so much DPS lost on a mechanic that they basically have no control over, the only way to keep the kitten pet alive is to keep it on passive. and guess what. that loses… you guessed it. 30-40% of DPS. i picked a ranger to be an expert at range. not to babysit a broken Ai that i would gladly kill off and do without. i dont need the pet. i need my DPS to be equivalent to other classes.

This is a very apt description of what is wrong with pet AI, and as a result what really hampers rangers DPS.

I would support any idea that puts the pet in a less prominent role than now.

yuri.2017:

It is very simple when you consider it, Ranger players did not sign up for a class that is weaker then any other. Which it is, their is nothing the player can do to stop it, If we call back our pet to save it, we lose 30-40% DPS, if the boss or champ uses a move that the PLAYER has to avoid, the pet Can Not do so, so it gets hurt or killed, thus losing 30-40% DPS, if we Kite, we lose 30-40% DPS. as pets cant hit moving targets, pets cant dodge AoE, Pets cant smartly attack targets and know to stay out of “fire” Pets will willingly run through poison, traps, flames, and all sorts of nastieness. so in the end no matter what the PLAYER does, the Ranger loses 30-40 % of their total DPS at some point in a fight, their is no other class that has so much DPS lost on a mechanic that they basically have no control over, the only way to keep the kitten pet alive is to keep it on passive. and guess what. that loses… you guessed it. 30-40% of DPS. i picked a ranger to be an expert at range. not to babysit a broken Ai that i would gladly kill off and do without. i dont need the pet. i need my DPS to be equivalent to other classes.

Add also: can’t use from in towers or to attack people on walls in towers (except for useless skill on long cooldown and requires you to stand practically underneath the wall to use, if they didn’t ‘fix’ it), 40% damage gone.

No other class is quite so kitten in so many situations as this one.

And Anet don’t seem to realise this or just don’t care, as long as their precious spvp gets ‘balanced’.

A very simple fix for pets would be to just change the “passive” mode to a “spirit” mode.
While in spirit mode, your pet cannot attack or be attacked, and the ranger receives a buff that corresponds to the type of pet. Additionally, if a pet dies, it is forced into spirit mode for 1 minute.

Say, 180 crit for cats (180= standard signet value), 180 toughness for dogs, 180 vit for bears, 10% chance to proc certain buffs or conditions for various other families. You get the idea.

This gives rangers an always active contribution from their pets, even if they died or are on passive.

The one thing you all do not realize is that the pet is at least 40 % of your damage. If you learn to play a build involving it you can tank bosses. It just takes training, hardwork, and determination. This isn’t guild wars 1 where you stand in one spot, doing so will kill you in any fight.

I’ve been able to tank dungeons with one of my builds. I don’t sacrifice anything, if you don’t use your pet you won’t succeed in pve. The best you can do without your pet is stand in the back like a coward and fire an arrow. Try everything available to the ranger, infinite possibilities to achieve balance.

When they did nerfing I wasn’t affected at all because I don’t rely on just a bow.

dodgerrule.8739:

The one thing you all do not realize is that the pet is at least 40 % of your damage. If you learn to play a build involving it you can tank bosses. It just takes training, hardwork, and determination. This isn’t guild wars 1 where you stand in one spot, doing so will kill you in any fight.

I’ve been able to tank dungeons with one of my builds. I don’t sacrifice anything, if you don’t use your pet you won’t succeed in pve. The best you can do without your pet is stand in the back like a coward and fire an arrow. Try everything available to the ranger, infinite possibilities to achieve balance.

Very true. If we don’t use the pet, we are really crippling ourselves. Unfortunately there are some circumstances were the pet will die no matter how good a ranger you are (Subject Alpha and Aetherblade Retreat, I’m looking at you). The pet AI does need some work … okay, a lot of work. But removing the pet is not the only option. Fixing the mechanic will greatly improve everyone’s outlook.

Well … except those that don’t want a pet at all. ArenaNet was clear before the game even launched that ranger = pet. So if you truly want no pet … play a different class.

EDIT: Note: You here is referring to the people that want pets removed, not you dodgerrule.

dodgerrule.8739:

When they did nerfing I wasn’t affected at all because I don’t rely on just a bow.

Not necessarily accurate. They did nerf. And if you used the SB at all, you did receive a nerf. Just because it didn’t invalidate your build doesn’t mean that it didn’t affect you at all.

There’s only one solution to pets right now: Let us control them!

Now that pet damage has been reduced we need to be capable of chaining their skills and making combos with our own abilities instead of having to deal with kitten AI.

Red Moa Example:

• F1 – Attack/Return toggle
• F2 – Furious Screech
• F3 – Frenzied Attack
• F4 – Harmonic Cry

Keep the cooldowns the same and swap pet becomes a specific keybind.. This will open up a lot of possibilities for rangers and will not make us OP since they reduced our overall damage.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Well … except those that don’t want a pet at all. ArenaNet was clear before the game even launched that ranger = pet. So if you truly want no pet … play a different class.

Umm…what? They weren’t that clear about it. When describing the ranger early on they talked of an archer, outdoorsy class that, yes, could have a pet. Tons of people had no idea the pet was permanent until the game launched…or specifically researched the pet aspect of the ranger—something a non pet-liking player wouldn’t do.

Also, please tell me where it said that pets accounted for 20-40% of a ranger’s damage in pre-launch…or anywhere after for that matter lol. It’s mind-boggling that they don’t tell you that up front and have to search for it on a 3rd party site.

Additionally, they essentially changed the class of Ranger from not only its predecessor in GW1, but pretty much every “ranger” class in mmo history. They should have either explained it better, or changed the name of the class to “Beastmaster.”

Cuz that’s what it really is.

When they stated that rangers would be in Guild Wars 2, they did stat that the use of a pet is necessary for to access the full potential of the class. If you remember, they don’t care what other games do. Their vision of classes is how they pictured them to be. Rangers here use pets, and are one with nature. If you do not want to be one with nature then do not choose a ranger and leave us alone for not being what you expect.

Expectations only lead to disappointment.

dodgerrule.8739:

When they stated that rangers would be in Guild Wars 2, they did stat that the use of a pet is necessary for to access the full potential of the class. If you remember, they don’t care what other games do. Their vision of classes is how they pictured them to be. Rangers here use pets, and are one with nature. If you do not want to be one with nature then do not choose a ranger and leave us alone for not being what you expect.

Expectations only lead to disappointment.

Like expecting the class to function properly? Expecting the broken mechanic to be fixed or replaced?

Sometimes I feel like all of these pet advocates are more about the aesthetics of the pet instead of caring whether or not it functions. Go buy some minipets if that’s the case.

dodgerrule.8739:

When they stated that rangers would be in Guild Wars 2, they did stat that the use of a pet is necessary for to access the full potential of the class. If you remember, they don’t care what other games do. Their vision of classes is how they pictured them to be. Rangers here use pets, and are one with nature. If you do not want to be one with nature then do not choose a ranger and leave us alone for not being what you expect.

Expectations only lead to disappointment.

Then why should we be forced to use a Pet at all when it is very simple to offer those who do not wish to use it their lost DPS. i wanted to play a RANGED class. not a Warrior with a rifle. not a Thief with a bow. but a RANGER. but i personally did not want this idiotic pet following me around grabbing agro every step of the way with no ability to properly dodge. A previous poster mentioned the pet being a “tank” well guess what. in this game tanking is Evasion and kiting. not sitting in front of the beast waiting to be killed or “called back” calling back the pet is not a dodge and its really a half kittened way of going about it. it doesnt take skill it doesnt take thought. and again it lowers OUR DPS. so ya. you may have your pet tank. but your also doing half the DMG of any one else in the dungeon, thus could just as easilly be replaced by some one else. some one who can kite while putting out optimal DPS. which even while kitting would be at minimal 30% higher then our own DPS. you are just too focused on wanting your broken pet too see the larger picture. you dont understand the base concept and issue.

I dont know about any one else. but i frankly want an option to permanently turn off the pet. even during JP it gets in the way, every time i take damage out pops this pet yet again to screw up my positioning. and my camera. really if i was a ranger in this game. i would take old yeller behind the barn and SHOOT IT. because thats about as useful as the pet is

The lost DPS can be restored by improvements to the pet AI and/or AoE damage reduction. Removing the pet entirely is doubtful if it will happen for one simple reason. The pet is the unique mechanic of the ranger class. We are as likely to see pets removed for combat as we are to see thief’s stealth, warrior’s burst, or necro’s Death Shroud disappear.

Now to have the option to turn the pet off at times like jumping puzzles? I do think that this should be an option but I don’t think we should gain anything from it besides from having the pet stowed.

I actually made a suggestion last night on GW2Guru, which seems kind of similar to yours. I’ll just copy/paste the whole thing as I can’t be bothered to write it up again. Sorry for the excessive sarcasm, I may have written a lot of it in anger.

As it’s been said a thousand times before, pets are underpowered.
For some reason ArenaNet thought everyone was blatantly lying at all times, and the people in sPvP must be right that pets actually make Rangers able to watch TV and stomp people at the same time. What they didn’t realize is that the ability to watch TV during a sPvP match is actually because we spend most time on the floor anyway.

Now instead of trusting the ArenaNet developers to balance the game and all that, I propose a few changes to the Ranger class that could improve our hindering class mechanic as a whole. As Rangers are usually considered the jack of all trades, I’ll take this one step further by not only adapting to the recent changes, but also doing the developers’ work for them by thinking of a solution to actually for once balance the profession.

I suggest a change to the F1 and F3 abilities. Currently F1 (which should send in our Pet to attack our target) works great, but only when our pet actually feels like attacking. I can’t count how many times I’ve had to spam my F1 key to make my pet move as much as an inch. The situation gets worse against enemies who stealth or cause you to lose track of your current target. In that case the pet will run back to you, instead of staying in the vicinity of its’ original target.
What I’d like to see is a merge with the currently useless Guard utility skill. Controlling our pets shouldn’t have to be bound to our utility skill slots, as it’s our class mechanic. If anything our utility slots should bring just that: utility. As for my proposal; it’s rather simple, really. Press F1 once to have a ground-targeted Guard ability, press it twice to let our pet actually run in and attack our selected target. (Which most of us already do?)

One of the main problems our pet becomes a nuisance in dungeons is because there are a lot of mechanics that simply have to be dodged in order to survive the encounter. As a dead pet does no DPS, but still subtracts from our weapon damage scaling, because it’s balanced around the fact that we have an active pet, this brings forth some of our most core problems with the Ranger. We bring less damage than other professions because of our pet dying in these encounters, and less utility because our core mechanic just got hard countered by some mindless one hit K.O. gimmick. There are only two viable solutions that I could think of, and one would make pets seriously overpowered.

1. Create a dodge mechanic for the Ranger’s pet.
2. Make pets invulnerable or at least highly resistant to area of effect damage.

Now you could guess that making pets have insane tanking abilities because they’re a pet isn’t really an option. How to include a dodge mechanic for our pets?
That’s where F3 comes in. If we can return our pets by using the ground targeted F1 ability, there’s no need for a recall option. So changing F3 to make our pets perform a dodge roll seems like the perfect solution. This would have to go side by side with creating an endurance bar for our pets, or making the F3 ability drain a small part of the Ranger’s endurance. We can already trait for more endurance regeneration, so that wouldn’t actually be much of an issue if it were to drain the Ranger’s endurance as long as it’s not as much as 50%.

Obviously only fixing our pet’s AI by giving us more control would not fix all the issues with the Ranger, but I think it could go a long way. And I think most of us agree something has to change to bring Rangers on par with other professions. Please feel free give feedback or to add your own suggestions.

I did not want to go into the stow pet option, as this has been suggested for as long as I can remember to keep the pet stowed when entering combat. And with good reason too. But since this easy fix is still not implemented, I kind of gave up on that one.

ilr.9675:

Dante.1508:

ilr.9675:

People who didn’t want a pet, knew all along that they were suppose to roll Warrior instead or Thief instead. …both of which have had better Shortbow or Longbow skills than us SINCE BETA…

No we didn’t , i did not follow GW2 like a devoted fan, i just expected my ranger to work exactly how it did in the first installment of Guildwars, if that’s how Arena net works then no wonder players are dropping this game, we came here expecting choices not to be forced into 3 and a half year old bad decisions…

If i wanted to roll a Warrior or thief i would have, i wanted a ranger, like my Guildwars rangers sorry if that clashes with your totalitarian views..

It’s not * MY * view… that… is —> Anet’s “vision” for it. (not mine!) …which they made very clear from the beginning. The only thing I’m arguing is that exact sentence: that they made it clear from the beginning. People who playtested 40+ levels of Ranger in Beta … me included … were given a perfect view into how broken and unforgiving the “companion” system was. That’s why people like me who had been watching all this unfolding for years, rolled a guardian or warrior as our first “main” instead and only had a ranger as a side project to be supported by our benevolent Heavy Armor overlord.

I understand your frustration and that’s not me intentionally patronizing you. Your frustration and everyone else’s is very palpable here and maybe even with good reason. But there’s something to keep in mind here when referencing GW1. It wasn’t the Bow attacks themselves or even the damage on Bows that made them good in GW1 (crit build daggers & scythes completely left bows AND hammers in the dust on DPS), or even the fact you didn’t have to carry a pet everywhere. It was the Ranger’s primary trait that made them EASY TO BUILD GIMMICKS OUT OF b/c Gw1’s balance of power was crutching super hard _on energy management which isn’t a “thing” here in this game. If it was, then Rangers & Necro’s would be seen in every dungeon run to date (especially Arahs) and warriors would still be relegated to Manly-Spike only.

…

…and yes… this is an absolute irrefutable fact and made up the BULK of our conversations for years on end during GW2’s development cycles. So many things hinged on these mechanics that it’s not even funny but again; it’s very understandable that a lot of people could have missed these facts and came into this a bit unprepared by Anet’s platitudes on what a revolutionary and inviting (+ relaxed grouping reqs) game this was to be.

Fair enough my apologies you came across as play like Anet says or else and i totally disagree with playing like they want me too, which in itself is a terrible and poor mechanics setup. I’d rather not play GW2 than deal with Ranger pets anymore.

Again my apologies.

Here’s what I’m getting though from everybody’s response:

Regardless of peoples likes and dislikes from the ideas suggested in this thread, there isn’t a single player that has responded so far that is satisfied with the pet system. People might “agree” with it, but so far nobody has argued its efficiency.

That to me indicates how necessary a pet revision is. When the entire community can look at our classes core mechanic, and regardless of enjoyment, admit that it needs improvement.

jcbroe.4329:

Here’s what I’m getting though from everybody’s response:

Regardless of peoples likes and dislikes from the ideas suggested in this thread, there isn’t a single player that has responded so far that is satisfied with the pet system. People might “agree” with it, but so far nobody has argued its efficiency.

That to me indicates how necessary a pet revision is. When the entire community can look at our classes core mechanic, and regardless of enjoyment, admit that it needs improvement.

Great post totally agree.

I want the Pet gone because personally i know i can play and survive solo with my build in PvE and WvW, even with the lower DPS and less tanking abilities having no pet would add.

But i’d be happy with just perma stow or a complete pet overhaul if it meant making the Ranger class more viable in all aspects of the game, i don’t hate the pets because they are attached to rangers i hate them because they are inferior and do not work as intended on Paper…

Dante.1508:

jcbroe.4329:

Here’s what I’m getting though from everybody’s response:

Regardless of peoples likes and dislikes from the ideas suggested in this thread, there isn’t a single player that has responded so far that is satisfied with the pet system. People might “agree” with it, but so far nobody has argued its efficiency.

That to me indicates how necessary a pet revision is. When the entire community can look at our classes core mechanic, and regardless of enjoyment, admit that it needs improvement.

Great post totally agree.

I want the Pet gone because personally i know i can play and survive solo with my build in PvE and WvW, even with the lower DPS and less tanking abilities having no pet would add.

But i’d be happy with just perma stow or a complete pet overhaul if it meant making the Ranger class more viable in all aspects of the game, i don’t hate the pets because they are attached to rangers i hate them because they are inferior and do not work as intended on Paper…

I’ve learned to deal with the pet, but I don’t find it an enjoyable mechanic.

As a matter of fact, I think the most frustrating thing in the entire game as a ranger is to be able to attack a person, ranged or melee, over and over again doing damage, and while doing so, I have to watch my pet, hitting maybe once to every 10 or so of my hits, and really experiencing how much damage is being lost on it.

And that’s why I think pets need to be relegated to a utility role. It isn’t because I think they shouldn’t be a damage mechanic, it’s because they just don’t work as one, and the devs, with their updates, have shown that they don’t want the pet to be. So it really is only fair, for the sake of balance, to make absolutely sure that any hindrance the pet causes isn’t mechanic related.

The devs once said that “the ranger is balanced around pets.”

If you ask me, they should balance the pets around the ranger.

Sarision.6347:

The devs once said that “the ranger is balanced around pets.”

If you ask me, they should balance the pets around the ranger.

Exactly my point.