Too many ranges for rangers!
fully agreed with most things. i have to say LB is a very decent weapon at the 1500 range, and would be perfect at 1800 if traited.
SB could stay at 900 if they actually buffed it meaningfully. it needs more evades, more burst, and easier condi application. it’s a pathetic weapon right now. it needs to be a skirmishing weapon.
i like 1200 offhands and swoop. but youre right, 1200 offhand range doesnt really make sense. like i could really throw my torch as far as i can shoot my arrow…lmao
i think they’ll be tweaking our weapon numbers a lot for the oct. 15 patch.
(edited by mistsim.2748)
you do not get what off hand training does . It increases the AOE as well , which is the most important part of it
My issue with some of the changes you are suggesting is that they don’t solve the problem you are claiming exists. For instance, nerfing offhand training doesn’t change the fact that all offhand weapons have both a point-blank and a long-range effect. This creates some degree of versatility within the sets but also hinders them if you are wishing to specialize more in one range over another. The problem you are talking about would be better addressed by redesigning weapons entirely.
I like some of your changes though, notably changing SB range back to 1200 and making LB 1500. I don’t think adding even a little RNG to Eagle Eye would be productive though, so I’d say it needs something besides crit chance.
Leave Swoop alone though please; it’s one of the saving graces for GS right now.
(edited by Leuca.5732)
Sb bow is for mainly single target axe is multiple that’s the difference range isn’t the issue.
You have two weapon sets. We have stealth and a push to help keep distance on lb.
We do have issue with aoe attack and our pets are a weakness and a strength. Rangers have a lot of evade as it is. While OP suggestion might be nice we bigger issue to address. Wish list are fine and good but I rather Anet work on the pet and aoe issues first.
everyone should fear becoming mentally clouded and obsessed with one small section of truth.
i want to see axe as a melee weapon with a good auto chain. winters bite could be melee and a blast finisher.
Just the WvW
R3200+
I dont really agree.
I never found our weapon ranges to be a big problem, and I am not sure how nerfing half of them (including our lovely lovely GS leap?!) to make it more “realistic” is a solution to anything.
Gunnar’s Hold
Would love shortbows and traps to have a longer range.
Dragonbrand – Level 80 – Human Ranger
you do not get what off hand training does . It increases the AOE as well , which is the most important part of it
TRUE !
insane for every offhand weapon just take a look at bonfire(torch5) with and without the trait
throw torch with 1200 range is so nice in wvw/spvp you got a low hp target that run away, throw torch and GG :p
edit: i think you dont rly get what ranger can do and where we are strong and where we are weak..
(edited by Bambula.3649)
honestly, if SB got a condition duration buff, and raw damage buff/a bit better power scaling for its attack, it would be perfect.
Axe, “nerf” it down to 600 untraited, and give it massive close quarter AOE. Axe #3 could become like “Rune of Fire” and explode in a small AOE frost ball. Chilling a small group. Axe 4 should just become faster. So it is easier to pull with it.
Axe 5 – standard AOE should be similar to current traited AOE. and it should properly REFLECT shots, instead of randomly doing it cuz of a bug.
Currently @ some T1 server in EU
When I compare the LB Ranger to the LB Warrior so far (warriors only level 48) I see a world of difference. The warrior f2 is a great AoE shoot and forget, ranger AoE you have to stand there an animate, win for the Warrior. The warrior has 3 AoE type shots available, Ranger has the 1, win Warriors. Warrior “Pin Down” has a nasty bleed tick and “fan of fire” a nasty burn tick, Rangers have stacked vuln… as long as you stand there and cast it, win Warriors.
The Warrior is the better “group” bow user especially in WvW, were bow isn’t even the Warriors primary go to ranged weapon.
Sad. Good luck getting Anet to alter the Ranger Long bow to get it to compete with the Warrior LB and you don’t have to fiddle with the quirky Pet AI.
Heavy Halo, Warrior JQ
warrior with LB vs Ranger with LB. Win Ranger.
Why? we can spec for better condition cleanse, while retaining better outgoing DPS and survivability. Warrior must spec heavily into conditions for that bow to truly shine, ranger can run around in zerk gear and troll all day long.
Also, you forgot the pet.
Currently @ some T1 server in EU
We won’t be given an option to have our cake and eat it too. The buffs proposed require trade offs. They are not insubstantial benefits as a whole. Nor do they solve all problems. But they are a simple buff with a simple explanation. Those are the most likely.
It is critical for ANET to be able to explain to the rest of the player base a concise reason for the change. Nothing is more concise than moving ranges to standardized 900/1200/1500. This will have consequences.
I am fully aware that Offhand Training improves AOE and this is the critical element for one ability Torch 5. Unintended consequence but one worth the changes proposed. One could ask that Offhand move to improving duration of boons/effects instead of range/AOE or maybe ask for AOE + improved duration. Simple would be duration only.
I am also fully aware that this would limit Swoop (not by much) and offhand slow down a fleeing target stuff (but your bow would do that better now). Trade offs have to have some pain.
Let’s play a little game. Rank the following changes from -10 OMG that would kill my class to 10 OMG that would be awesome. 0 is meh doesn’t do a thing.
1. Traited Traps go to 900 (5 most rangers. 7 Trap rangers)
2. SB goes to 1200 (7)
3. LB goes to 1500 (9)
4. Swoop to 900 (-5 if you melee this is the longest range closer)
5. Offhand goes to 900 with no trait to improve (-2 because now you have great bow range. Only impacts pure melee rangers for them it is situation and only -4)
On whole the positives outweigh the negatives substantially in my personal opinion. All other opinions welcome.
I agree about bows/traps and disagree about everything that has to do with off-hand weapons. Off-hand Training is used mostly for the cd and aoe improvements. I also feel that limiting all traits to the DPS paradigm is unhealthy for the game and something that they are trying to move away from.
more deadly than any that walks this earth. Put aside the Ranger.
Become who you were born to be. I give hope to men. I keep none for myself.
I agree with a lot of your points OP. I think the shortbow has been nerfed so hard, its kind of sad. Rate of fire nerfed, range nerfed, and indirectly through quickness nerf has made it pretty weak.
My pet desired change for SB (esp. considering the nerfs) would be to lower the CD on SB 5 and make it stun for 2 secs even from the front, or give it another interrupt say on SB 4- or change the “pet bleeding” part of 4 to pet’s next attack interrupts/knocks down/immobilizes or something.
Same with greatsword 5- the interrupt/stun is on too long a CD (relative to other classes; and is too short), and the requirement to be behind to even stun is pretty UP. I like the 50% more pet damage, but the skill level to set up that burst is so much higher than say if I burst with Mesmer phantasms (really easy, can be done from range, I don’t even need to cc the enemy as the pets hit reliably, and there is a greater sense of control over the burst)
With Mes for example hit pistol phantasm, swap to GS hit GS phantasm fire off GS skills- compared to ranger try and time your GS hilt bash, swap to raven F2, sic’em (simultaneously) pray that raven does skill quickly.
I rather keep things the way they are than to see all these changes implemented, because a lot of them are nerfs. But Longbow really needs some more help.
Longbow users struggle to pick their Marksmanship traits, because there is so much choice, but you can only pick two of them:
Piercing Arrows (Master) – longbow arrows can hit multiple targets
Eagle Eye (Master) – longbow 1500 range and +5% damage
Spotter (Master) – more crit chance
Remorseless (Grandmaster) – only longbow has the stealth to use it
Signet of the Beastmaster (Grandmaster) – great for signet of stone and wild
On top of that, I struggle to pick Skirmishing traits for Longbow. There isn’t really anything, apart from one must-have trait:
Quick Draw (Master) – 20% faster skill recharge for bows
I usually end up taking Sharpened Edges for adept, eventhough I have no condition damage:
Sharpened Edges(Adapt) – 66% chance for 2s bleed on crit
And I feel forced to skip on equiping a 30 point trait because nothing is left. The 25 point trait is good though.
Conclusion:
- make 1500 range default on the longbow
- make remorseless default behaviour.
- move Spotter to the Skirmishing trait line
(edited by Holland.9351)
Conclusion:
- make 1500 range default on the longbow
- make remorseless default behaviour.
- move Spotter to the Skirmishing trait line
no way, spotter is in a good postitions, mabye it could be move to an adebt triat.
skirmishing is fine to push the pet dmg in a offensiv build, so the ranger got prezi/crit dmg what is stronger on a ranger than the power and its emprove or pet dmg !?
AWESOME
Good ideas for buffs imo, but I like spotter where it is too
alts: Fangyre (Necro), Hardrawk (Ele);
Jade Quarry
Conclusion:
- make 1500 range default on the longbow
- make remorseless default behaviour.
- move Spotter to the Skirmishing trait lineno way, spotter is in a good postitions, mabye it could be move to an adebt triat.
skirmishing is fine to push the pet dmg in a offensiv build, so the ranger got prezi/crit dmg what is stronger on a ranger than the power and its emprove or pet dmg !?
AWESOME
If one of those 3 suggestions happened, I’d already be happy. It doesn’t have to be Spotter.
warrior with LB vs Ranger with LB. Win Ranger.
Why? we can spec for better condition cleanse, while retaining better outgoing DPS and survivability. Warrior must spec heavily into conditions for that bow to truly shine, ranger can run around in zerk gear and troll all day long.Also, you forgot the pet.
I respectfully disagree with this statement. With Cleansing Ire + Burst Mastery the warrior can cleanse conditions pretty much as fast as they can come in from a single target without even using runes, signets or sigils. Also, my warrior in it’s GvG build has roughly 2200 power, nearly 2300 toughness and over31k HP along with regen 500hp per tick before food. There’s really nothing a zerker ranger can do that would make me sit up and take notice. And anyone with some experience playing a ranger, or playing against a ranger can neutralize the pet by taking the fight to terrain that will pose the pets AI challenges.
I’m not even that good at Warrior, I’ve only been playing the class part time for less than a month. So far I’m having a hard time justifying going back to the Ranger though, I can’t find anything was doing on my Ranger that I can’t do better on my Warrior. In this stupid tank build I even solo camps in WvW faster… :|
Ehmry Bay – The Rally Bot Vortex [VOID]
Only one thing needs to really be done to make ranged weapons actually function effectively as they should:
1. Decrease “melee” weapon skills movement range across all classes
Melee should be at a disadvantage at a range, while ranged weapons should be at a disadvantage within close quarters. Currently, covering that distance is way too easy without any real penalty:
- Skills that move the player over large distances
- Invulnerability: Blocking, Evading, projectile reflection, and just straight up invulnerability
Something has to give here: the simplest and most logical way of reworking this would be to simply decrease the longer movement range of melee skills. These skills shouldn’t have the range of a ranged weapon. No melee weapon skill should come close to the range of a projectile weapon like the longbow, rifle, pistol, shortbow, etc. Even thrown weapons shouldn’t have this type of range without some sort of major draw back.
Overall, the Ranger Longbow would be fine and is the only bow in game that, in my opinion, actually feels like a bow; however, it’s nearly impossible to stay at a range where it is truly effective.
One thing that makes it difficult to stay at a range with the longbow is that player, as stated before, can instantly cover that distance without any real penalty other than a cool down. A player can easily cross about 800-1200 range with one skill and then swap to another weapon to cross that distance again; point blank alone cannot counter this sort of play.
Thieves can just shadow step (teleport) that distance all too easily, warriors just use one skill without a second thought to leap that distance, etc. Anet wouldn’t be able to nerf just one class’s ability to cover distance. It would have to be all of them at once; Ranger’s Swoop included.