Guild Wars 2

Let me get this comment out of the way first: the one who plays better. Yeah. We get it. Let’s move to the topic question…

Let’s talk about which build has the advantage in a 1v1 fight: the Beastmaster or the trap ranger?

What are their two strategies?

depends on the build, there’s not just one BM build or one trap build.

Yeah, depends on the build. Assuming a rampager trap build vs full bunker BM, I might say the trap ranger, because those conditions will negate the regen(if the bunker doesn’t have say, signet of renewal and empathic bond). Against offensive BM, its a heads up, just whoever can kill the other quicker. An advantage BM will have is sending their pets into traps to negate any damage towards the actual player. I have used that strategy against trap rangers and staff necros, as well as bomb engi. With shortbow it’s pretty easy to do, and that may be a significant advantage. A bunker trap build vs a BM bunker would also be interesting. I would probably say the trapper has advantage because the BM will find it tough to spike you down and conditions can whittle away at hp. Then again, a QZ burst and avoiding traps could change that. Idk really hard to say lol. A melee trapper might have an advantage of activating the traps on the BM. Then there are trap BM rangers….

Lol if you can understand all that blah blah, you can come to the conlusion that it is hard to say, especially without a specific build.

It is hard to say, as mentioned above. For example given the way condition damage works for rangers, I often run a BM build with no points in skirmishing but still use traps with condition duration added on elsewhere.

My survivability is high, my personal damage is high, and my pets damage is high.

BM hit first = win.
or
BM stomp trap = lost.

Not sure why you would run with rampagers instead of rabid (PvP gearing wise) on a trap build.
Anywho, it would be a long fight if we assume they are equally skilled players. The trap build wins if they can keep constant poison on the BM while whittling away conditions. The BM is at a disadvantage the whole time really because even though the pets will eat the traps, they will be crippled and taking lots of damage, which could result in a loss of damage from both sides.

In the end I still say trap ranger wins, simply because the BM has to rely on AI to do damage, which, regardless of how well people can micro the pet, pet pathing and AI is more of a random factor to be using to deal damage, as compared to traps where the damage is more in the hands of the player. In the end, player skill beats AI.

jcbroe.4329:

Not sure why you would run with rampagers instead of rabid (PvP gearing wise) on a trap build.
Anywho, it would be a long fight if we assume they are equally skilled players. The trap build wins if they can keep constant poison on the BM while whittling away conditions. The BM is at a disadvantage the whole time really because even though the pets will eat the traps, they will be crippled and taking lots of damage, which could result in a loss of damage from both sides.

In the end I still say trap ranger wins, simply because the BM has to rely on AI to do damage, which, regardless of how well people can micro the pet, pet pathing and AI is more of a random factor to be using to deal damage, as compared to traps where the damage is more in the hands of the player. In the end, player skill beats AI.

Rampagers gives more power than rabid, that’s a reason. Pet swap usually comes at the same time as trap cd, so pets could be swapped after eating traps. Pet AI is fine if you know how to use the pet, I never find it a problem, it is player skill as well. Also, BM doesn’t have to depend on pet for damage, I just use my pet for burst really, its a supplement, not all I have.

Jazenn.7526:

jcbroe.4329:

Not sure why you would run with rampagers instead of rabid (PvP gearing wise) on a trap build.
Anywho, it would be a long fight if we assume they are equally skilled players. The trap build wins if they can keep constant poison on the BM while whittling away conditions. The BM is at a disadvantage the whole time really because even though the pets will eat the traps, they will be crippled and taking lots of damage, which could result in a loss of damage from both sides.

In the end I still say trap ranger wins, simply because the BM has to rely on AI to do damage, which, regardless of how well people can micro the pet, pet pathing and AI is more of a random factor to be using to deal damage, as compared to traps where the damage is more in the hands of the player. In the end, player skill beats AI.

Rampagers gives more power than rabid, that’s a reason. Pet swap usually comes at the same time as trap cd, so pets could be swapped after eating traps. Pet AI is fine if you know how to use the pet, I never find it a problem, it is player skill as well. Also, BM doesn’t have to depend on pet for damage, I just use my pet for burst really, its a supplement, not all I have.

I can see the gain in power, but that’s like sacrificing 600+ toughness (569 if not running rabid jewel or toughness jewel) for 150 extra DPS. Some people may be able to justify that and see success with that, and I’m not saying its bad, I guess it just doesn’t fit my playstyle.
Going back to player skill though, if 2 highly, equally skilled rangers are playing, then I would expect them to know how pets function well enough to be able to take as little damage from them as possible because of how well they know their own profession and how pets work.
The same can be said for the BM ranger, as they should know and be able to avoid traps, especially since throwing traps on the ground is an obvious animation.
Most likely it would end as a stalemate. But, if I really had to choose a winner, I still believe the trap ranger is going to out DPS the BM to the point where it may be significant enough to give them the edge.
However, if the trap ranger is the healing variant, I say it’s a total stalemate. Forcing me to choose though, the BM has the edge in that scenario because the healing trap build sacrifices its crit procs so now the BM build will be the one doing more damage.

In WvW a BM build that also sports 55% or higher to critical hit, who utilizes Omnom Pies, with the right selection of Sigils, like Generosity, and/or Purity will beat all other Rangers every time.

jcbroe.4329:

Jazenn.7526:

jcbroe.4329:

Not sure why you would run with rampagers instead of rabid (PvP gearing wise) on a trap build.
Anywho, it would be a long fight if we assume they are equally skilled players. The trap build wins if they can keep constant poison on the BM while whittling away conditions. The BM is at a disadvantage the whole time really because even though the pets will eat the traps, they will be crippled and taking lots of damage, which could result in a loss of damage from both sides.

In the end I still say trap ranger wins, simply because the BM has to rely on AI to do damage, which, regardless of how well people can micro the pet, pet pathing and AI is more of a random factor to be using to deal damage, as compared to traps where the damage is more in the hands of the player. In the end, player skill beats AI.

Rampagers gives more power than rabid, that’s a reason. Pet swap usually comes at the same time as trap cd, so pets could be swapped after eating traps. Pet AI is fine if you know how to use the pet, I never find it a problem, it is player skill as well. Also, BM doesn’t have to depend on pet for damage, I just use my pet for burst really, its a supplement, not all I have.

I can see the gain in power, but that’s like sacrificing 600+ toughness (569 if not running rabid jewel or toughness jewel) for 150 extra DPS. Some people may be able to justify that and see success with that, and I’m not saying its bad, I guess it just doesn’t fit my playstyle.
Going back to player skill though, if 2 highly, equally skilled rangers are playing, then I would expect them to know how pets function well enough to be able to take as little damage from them as possible because of how well they know their own profession and how pets work.
The same can be said for the BM ranger, as they should know and be able to avoid traps, especially since throwing traps on the ground is an obvious animation.
Most likely it would end as a stalemate. But, if I really had to choose a winner, I still believe the trap ranger is going to out DPS the BM to the point where it may be significant enough to give them the edge.
However, if the trap ranger is the healing variant, I say it’s a total stalemate. Forcing me to choose though, the BM has the edge in that scenario because the healing trap build sacrifices its crit procs so now the BM build will be the one doing more damage.

Well there you go, it doesn’t fit your play style, it is damage chosen over survivability. I’m glad you have an opinion, just don’t assume that because you don’t like something, then it isn’t good or viable. Like you say, I think it will be a close fight regardless, just because they are two of the same class. I think this can go for any matchup.

Jazenn.7526:

jcbroe.4329:

Jazenn.7526:

jcbroe.4329:

Not sure why you would run with rampagers instead of rabid (PvP gearing wise) on a trap build.
Anywho, it would be a long fight if we assume they are equally skilled players. The trap build wins if they can keep constant poison on the BM while whittling away conditions. The BM is at a disadvantage the whole time really because even though the pets will eat the traps, they will be crippled and taking lots of damage, which could result in a loss of damage from both sides.

In the end I still say trap ranger wins, simply because the BM has to rely on AI to do damage, which, regardless of how well people can micro the pet, pet pathing and AI is more of a random factor to be using to deal damage, as compared to traps where the damage is more in the hands of the player. In the end, player skill beats AI.

Rampagers gives more power than rabid, that’s a reason. Pet swap usually comes at the same time as trap cd, so pets could be swapped after eating traps. Pet AI is fine if you know how to use the pet, I never find it a problem, it is player skill as well. Also, BM doesn’t have to depend on pet for damage, I just use my pet for burst really, its a supplement, not all I have.

I can see the gain in power, but that’s like sacrificing 600+ toughness (569 if not running rabid jewel or toughness jewel) for 150 extra DPS. Some people may be able to justify that and see success with that, and I’m not saying its bad, I guess it just doesn’t fit my playstyle.
Going back to player skill though, if 2 highly, equally skilled rangers are playing, then I would expect them to know how pets function well enough to be able to take as little damage from them as possible because of how well they know their own profession and how pets work.
The same can be said for the BM ranger, as they should know and be able to avoid traps, especially since throwing traps on the ground is an obvious animation.
Most likely it would end as a stalemate. But, if I really had to choose a winner, I still believe the trap ranger is going to out DPS the BM to the point where it may be significant enough to give them the edge.
However, if the trap ranger is the healing variant, I say it’s a total stalemate. Forcing me to choose though, the BM has the edge in that scenario because the healing trap build sacrifices its crit procs so now the BM build will be the one doing more damage.

Well there you go, it doesn’t fit your play style, it is damage chosen over survivability. I’m glad you have an opinion, just don’t assume that because you don’t like something, then it isn’t good or viable. Like you say, I think it will be a close fight regardless, just because they are two of the same class. I think this can go for any matchup.

I didn’t say I didn’t like it in general, it just isn’t my preference on a trap build. Very big difference, because I would go as far as to say that rangers are one of the best users of the rampagers amulet in pvp.
However, I do remember saying my opinion while admitting it was opinion and claiming it was viable, though albeit indirectly :

…I’m not saying its bad…

though I guess that could be read with a sarcastic undertone, so I apologize if that is the way that was taken. I never meant to insinuate the viability of things, and was only trying to add to what I think is a very interesting topic of discussion.

jkctmc.8754:

In WvW a BM build that also sports 55% or higher to critical hit, who utilizes Omnom Pies, with the right selection of Sigils, like Generosity, and/or Purity will beat all other Rangers every time.

Hey, what’s the build you use to get 55% in critical chance as a BM, I personally put my money on Trap’s, only reason haven’t seen many BM/Bunker builds do very good in 1v1 duel. They always lack the damage unless they get a lucky entangle.

Just curious, why has no one mentioned the carrion amulet? It seems to me that it gives you a much needed boost to your hp pool while also boosting both your power and condition damage. Sure you’re giving up crit-based proc abilities but you’re beefing up the direct damage of all of your attacks in return.

I’m thinking in terms of a more hybrid trap/BM build along the lines of this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNAnfVnAVEXZbFWBxaZgo9gSm/8MFHyRPFoX9nskoJB;TgAgyCuoay0koJbTumkNB

Sol.4310:

jkctmc.8754:

In WvW a BM build that also sports 55% or higher to critical hit, who utilizes Omnom Pies, with the right selection of Sigils, like Generosity, and/or Purity will beat all other Rangers every time.

Hey, what’s the build you use to get 55% in critical chance as a BM, I personally put my money on Trap’s, only reason haven’t seen many BM/Bunker builds do very good in 1v1 duel. They always lack the damage unless they get a lucky entangle.

It is in the gear choice. I’m not in front of a computer that can log onto my account, or I’d give you a full run down.

Basically I trait to get the utility I want, and use my gear to get to the stats that I want. Every bunker build I run, including my bunker Warrior, and bunker Guardian utilizes gear with precision, to get above 50% crit chance, to make better use of Omnom Pie, and the ungodly amount of sigils that benefit from crits.

I don’t think people realize how well Omnom Pie heals.

I eat other bunker builds up too, especially d/d Elementalist, and Guardians. The Shrotbow procs Omnom a lot, and at a very fast rate.

@Sol

I called my wife to give me my build, and stats.

Gear is; Precision, Toughness, Condition damage for all armor pieces, Power, Precision, and Condition damage for jewelry, and weapons. (I forgot to have her check, but I think I have one piece of Knights armor somewhere). This puts me at a raw 52% critical hit, without Fury. Throw in Sigil of Bloodlust on a secondary set of axes, and my attack goes from 2600, to roughly 2900, with a solid amount of armor sitting at 2700ish. Once you pop Rampage as One, you go to 72% crit, and your damage on both raw hits, and conditions climb rather quickly.

Using Rata Sum runes, coupled with Winters Bite (Pet causes weakness with the attack) you can keep Weakness up near permanently against most classes, which synergizes well with us applying Protection to ourselves. Couple that with Chill, and d/d Elementalists have a heck of a time switching between their elements. This works great against any non-critical hit build, which most bunker builds are not.

This allows me two choices on my traits.

What I’m running now; 30 WS III, VII, XII .. 10 NM VI .. 30 BM II, VII, XII
What I switch to about every fourth day; 10 Skirm II, 20 WS III, VII, 10 NM VI, 30 BM II, VII, XII

On my Axes I use Sigil of Purity, and Sigil of Generosity, though I’m considering switching to Sigil of Air, and Sigil of Fire. My Shortbow is sporting Sigil of Air for now. I sometimes run Axe/Torch, in place of Axe/Axe, and my Torch has Sigil of Fire on it.

jcbroe.4329:

Jazenn.7526:

jcbroe.4329:

Jazenn.7526:

jcbroe.4329:

Not sure why you would run with rampagers instead of rabid (PvP gearing wise) on a trap build.
Anywho, it would be a long fight if we assume they are equally skilled players. The trap build wins if they can keep constant poison on the BM while whittling away conditions. The BM is at a disadvantage the whole time really because even though the pets will eat the traps, they will be crippled and taking lots of damage, which could result in a loss of damage from both sides.

In the end I still say trap ranger wins, simply because the BM has to rely on AI to do damage, which, regardless of how well people can micro the pet, pet pathing and AI is more of a random factor to be using to deal damage, as compared to traps where the damage is more in the hands of the player. In the end, player skill beats AI.

Rampagers gives more power than rabid, that’s a reason. Pet swap usually comes at the same time as trap cd, so pets could be swapped after eating traps. Pet AI is fine if you know how to use the pet, I never find it a problem, it is player skill as well. Also, BM doesn’t have to depend on pet for damage, I just use my pet for burst really, its a supplement, not all I have.

I can see the gain in power, but that’s like sacrificing 600+ toughness (569 if not running rabid jewel or toughness jewel) for 150 extra DPS. Some people may be able to justify that and see success with that, and I’m not saying its bad, I guess it just doesn’t fit my playstyle.
Going back to player skill though, if 2 highly, equally skilled rangers are playing, then I would expect them to know how pets function well enough to be able to take as little damage from them as possible because of how well they know their own profession and how pets work.
The same can be said for the BM ranger, as they should know and be able to avoid traps, especially since throwing traps on the ground is an obvious animation.
Most likely it would end as a stalemate. But, if I really had to choose a winner, I still believe the trap ranger is going to out DPS the BM to the point where it may be significant enough to give them the edge.
However, if the trap ranger is the healing variant, I say it’s a total stalemate. Forcing me to choose though, the BM has the edge in that scenario because the healing trap build sacrifices its crit procs so now the BM build will be the one doing more damage.

Well there you go, it doesn’t fit your play style, it is damage chosen over survivability. I’m glad you have an opinion, just don’t assume that because you don’t like something, then it isn’t good or viable. Like you say, I think it will be a close fight regardless, just because they are two of the same class. I think this can go for any matchup.

I didn’t say I didn’t like it in general, it just isn’t my preference on a trap build. Very big difference, because I would go as far as to say that rangers are one of the best users of the rampagers amulet in pvp.
However, I do remember saying my opinion while admitting it was opinion and claiming it was viable, though albeit indirectly :

…I’m not saying its bad…

though I guess that could be read with a sarcastic undertone, so I apologize if that is the way that was taken. I never meant to insinuate the viability of things, and was only trying to add to what I think is a very interesting topic of discussion.

I acknowledged your comment. No animosity, I appreciate opinions, I was just trying to make a point. Some people think the things they do are right and everything else sucks or is wrong. I see you aren’t one of those people. I apologize to you.

jkctmc.8754:

Sol.4310:

jkctmc.8754:

In WvW a BM build that also sports 55% or higher to critical hit, who utilizes Omnom Pies, with the right selection of Sigils, like Generosity, and/or Purity will beat all other Rangers every time.

Hey, what’s the build you use to get 55% in critical chance as a BM, I personally put my money on Trap’s, only reason haven’t seen many BM/Bunker builds do very good in 1v1 duel. They always lack the damage unless they get a lucky entangle.

It is in the gear choice. I’m not in front of a computer that can log onto my account, or I’d give you a full run down.

Basically I trait to get the utility I want, and use my gear to get to the stats that I want. Every bunker build I run, including my bunker Warrior, and bunker Guardian utilizes gear with precision, to get above 50% crit chance, to make better use of Omnom Pie, and the ungodly amount of sigils that benefit from crits.

I don’t think people realize how well Omnom Pie heals.

I eat other bunker builds up too, especially d/d Elementalist, and Guardians. The Shrotbow procs Omnom a lot, and at a very fast rate.

So basically your a Precision/Toughness/Healing Power build, or are you finding ways to get your Power up to 1800-2000 while keeping 1800 Toughness and at least 100 healing from your Signet.

I’ve been trying to find a good balance between the 2, and what pet’s, I’ve found almost all pets are useless vs a pro d/d ele they just never hit them, so I’ve been rolling with CC pet’s they seem to work allot better.

jkctmc.8754:

@Sol

I called my wife to give me my build, and stats.

Gear is; Precision, Toughness, Condition damage for all armor pieces, Power, Precision, and Condition damage for jewelry, and weapons. (I forgot to have her check, but I think I have one piece of Knights armor somewhere). This puts me at a raw 52% critical hit, without Fury. Throw in Sigil of Bloodlust on a secondary set of axes, and my attack goes from 2600, to roughly 2900, with a solid amount of armor sitting at 2700ish. Once you pop Rampage as One, you go to 72% crit, and your damage on both raw hits, and conditions climb rather quickly.

Using Rata Sum runes, coupled with Winters Bite (Pet causes weakness with the attack) you can keep Weakness up near permanently against most classes, which synergizes well with us applying Protection to ourselves. Couple that with Chill, and d/d Elementalists have a heck of a time switching between their elements. This works great against any non-critical hit build, which most bunker builds are not.

This allows me two choices on my traits.

What I’m running now; 30 WS III, VII, XII .. 10 NM VI .. 30 BM II, VII, XII
What I switch to about every fourth day; 10 Skirm II, 20 WS III, VII, 10 NM VI, 30 BM II, VII, XII

On my Axes I use Sigil of Purity, and Sigil of Generosity, though I’m considering switching to Sigil of Air, and Sigil of Fire. My Shortbow is sporting Sigil of Air for now. I sometimes run Axe/Torch, in place of Axe/Axe, and my Torch has Sigil of Fire on it.

Beat me to the reply, I see what your doing not bad idea. Good build vs Mesmers as they have stuff on condition remove. But say how would it field against a full bunker ele that has good amount of condition remove and can regen 9k heals every 10 seconds without fail really.

@Sol

See the second post above. I run with cats primarily, and will switch to dogs if I feel I’ve encountered a lot of Thieves (which seems on the decline lately). When fighting a d/d Elementalist, keep them moving. If they’re chasing you around, chances are your pet will rarely get hit by AE, as it is running to catch up.

The funniest thing to do to most d/d Elementalist is pull out your shortbow, and literally move in a circle around them never stop moving, while they keep trying to get to you, to do damage.

I don’t think I’ve encountered a d/d Elementalist that has healed that much.

P.S. I wonder if Poison Volley, and the Poison from the Rata Sum runes are making a bigger difference than I orinigally thought. Hmm…..

bm double raven bunker will win the fight every time. properly executed bunker build is actually the best ranger build, 1v1 or in tpvp. traps is used more often because it denies points and has a much much lower skillcap

kidbs.8920:

Just curious, why has no one mentioned the carrion amulet? It seems to me that it gives you a much needed boost to your hp pool while also boosting both your power and condition damage. Sure you’re giving up crit-based proc abilities but you’re beefing up the direct damage of all of your attacks in return.

I’m thinking in terms of a more hybrid trap/BM build along the lines of this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNAnfVnAVEXZbFWBxaZgo9gSm/8MFHyRPFoX9nskoJB;TgAgyCuoay0koJbTumkNB

Well whenever I am making builds, I keep this in mind, particular, the bottom quick way using the survival hierarchy to calculate survival. I also compare DPS, but in my comparisons I’ve done in the past that I don’t feel like linking from guru right now, the DPS difference between carrion and rabid is negligible, though the Rabid does slightly outdamage carrion, even though it isn’t significant.

However, back to the point about survivability, on a typical 0/30/30/5/5 trap build (I will bold the best armor rating amongst the group, and I am personally well aware that this is against direct damage and that there is more to survival than this, but this is a good reference point):

These are all pvp items:

Carrion Amulet/Carrion Jewel:
(22022*2280)/10000 = 5021 rating
Carrion Amulet/Shamans Jewel:
(21272*2405)/10000 = 5115.9 rounded to 5116 rating
Carrion Amulet/Shamans Jewel/6x toughness rune set (lets say 6x Melandrus):
(21272*2570)/10000 = 5466.9 rounded to 5467 rating
for some more quick mixed:
Carrion Amulet/Rabid jewel/vitality runes (5x + 1x different): 5457
Carrion Amulet/Rabid jewel/toughness runes(6x): 5361
Carrion Amulet/Knights Jewel/vitality runes (5x + 1x different): 5568
Carrion Amulet/Knights Jewel/toughness runes(6x): 5507

Rabid Amulet/Rabid Jewel:
(15582*2924)/10000 = 4556 rating
Rabid Amulet/Knights Jewel:
(16832*2849)/10000 = 4795 rating
Rabid Amulet/Knights Jewel/5x vitality set + 1x different vitality set:
(18732*2849)/10000 = 5336.7 rounded to 5337
for some more quick mixed:
Rabid/Carrion/Vitality (5x + 1x): 5194
Rabid/Carrion/Toughness(6x): 4922
Rabid/Shaman/Vitality (5x +1x): 5199
Rabid/Shaman/Toughness(6x): 4891

Shamans Amulet/Shamans Jewel:
(15582*3203)/10000 = 4990.9 rounded to 4991
Shamans Amulet/Shamans Jewel/Vitality runes (5x + 1x):
(17482*3203)/10000 = 5599
Shamans Amulet/Knights Jewel/Vitality Runes(5x = 1x):
(18732*3078)/10000 = 5765.7 rounded to 5768
Shamans Amulet/Knights Jewel/Toughness(6x):
(16832*3243)/10000 = 5458.6 rounded to 5459
quick ones now:
Shaman/rabid/vitality: 5512
Shaman/rabid/toughness: 5170
Shaman/carrion/vitality: 5612
Shaman/carrion/toughness: 5296

What to take away from this. Well, it should be obvious that the combinations that provide that largest focus on defensive stats (shaman + vitality stuff) also add the least to the damage stats.
The most damaging combinations with the highest armor rating:
1st. Carrion/Rabid/Vitality = 5457
2nd. Carrion/Rabid/Toughness = 5361
3rd. Rabid/Carrion/Vitality = 5194

As to why people don’t use carrion more, it is because they either desire other stats or effects, don’t need that much survivability to suit their playstyle, or don’t know any better.

@jkctmc, Yeah d/d ele’s I’ve been facing lately, all the bunker/rangers that I’ve watched try to take them down have no chance. Seen few come close but I think that was lucky critical from there pet. They just don’t have the damage output needed to break there regen + heals, maybe after the next update they nerf the bunker on d/d a bit so there not so OP in that department.

I have different ideas when comes to bunker ranger vs none bunker ranger in 1v1 in WvW I would give the win to none bunker ranger.. Maybe in SPvP/TPvP but not in WvW. I personally prefer full trapper build in TPvP but that’s for team support and not 1v1. Even know I’ve seen allot trap rangers destroy bunker rangers 1v1.

jkctmc.8754:

@Sol

I called my wife to give me my build, and stats.

Gear is; Precision, Toughness, Condition damage for all armor pieces, Power, Precision, and Condition damage for jewelry, and weapons. (I forgot to have her check, but I think I have one piece of Knights armor somewhere). This puts me at a raw 52% critical hit, without Fury. Throw in Sigil of Bloodlust on a secondary set of axes, and my attack goes from 2600, to roughly 2900, with a solid amount of armor sitting at 2700ish. Once you pop Rampage as One, you go to 72% crit, and your damage on both raw hits, and conditions climb rather quickly.

Using Rata Sum runes, coupled with Winters Bite (Pet causes weakness with the attack) you can keep Weakness up near permanently against most classes, which synergizes well with us applying Protection to ourselves. Couple that with Chill, and d/d Elementalists have a heck of a time switching between their elements. This works great against any non-critical hit build, which most bunker builds are not.

This allows me two choices on my traits.

What I’m running now; 30 WS III, VII, XII .. 10 NM VI .. 30 BM II, VII, XII
What I switch to about every fourth day; 10 Skirm II, 20 WS III, VII, 10 NM VI, 30 BM II, VII, XII

On my Axes I use Sigil of Purity, and Sigil of Generosity, though I’m considering switching to Sigil of Air, and Sigil of Fire. My Shortbow is sporting Sigil of Air for now. I sometimes run Axe/Torch, in place of Axe/Axe, and my Torch has Sigil of Fire on it.

That’s close to what I run in sPVP after ditching Cleric, most of my heals just don’t need heal power to be effective and I’d rather the toughness and high crit for %chance on crit food and sigils.

Different weapons though.

Outside of sPVP though my stats are a little scattered.

I acknowledged your comment. No animosity, I appreciate opinions, I was just trying to make a point. Some people think the things they do are right and everything else sucks or is wrong. I see you aren’t one of those people. I apologize to you.

I do appreciate that. The community could use more people discerning fact from opinion since I am noticing that a portion of the guild wars 2 community equates their anecdotal experiences to fact, which in turn creates circular debates that do nothing to add to the knowledge base of the rest of the community, or progress of the game as a whole. It’s why I was keeping away from the official forums and staying on guru to begin with, however, the guru ranger pvp community is very dead as of lately.
I got fed up with the stagnation and decided to be more vocal here on the official forums, by helping when I can, be educated by other players, and by adding whatever I can to the progress of the ranger community.
I also understand that people who have had success with ranger are jaded with the rest of the people on forums from all the constant opinionated arguments and overall complaining. It is a two way street however, and even though the devs aren’t required to tell the community anything, the lack of acknowledgement of the bugs people find and issues people have, or even an update thread every once in awhile, doesn’t encourage people to be positive and is probably serving to throw more fuel on the fire that is the dissatisfaction of people who express their negativity constantly.

I have definitely gone on too long however, and it is probably time to get this thread on topic.

bear in mind that some of the complaining comes from experienced players who have more or less maxed out the prof in every way, and feel that it’s genuinely overshadowed by some of the fotm builds.

that being said, i wish we could all come to the consensus that rangers are pretty strong in tpvp where the prof excels at dueling, but subpar in larger, more meaningful wvw engagements. i honestly feel that the ranger would become a strong wvw prof with a good spirit buff.

getting back on topic, any BM build will wipe the floor with traps in a 1v1. BM/conditions, or BM/cleric. this is just from my tpvp experience. but traps offers much more utility for the team, which is why it’s superior in that scenario.

Sol.4310:

@jkctmc, Yeah d/d ele’s I’ve been facing lately, all the bunker/rangers that I’ve watched try to take them down have no chance. Seen few come close but I think that was lucky critical from there pet. They just don’t have the damage output needed to break there regen + heals, maybe after the next update they nerf the bunker on d/d a bit so there not so OP in that department.

I have different ideas when comes to bunker ranger vs none bunker ranger in 1v1 in WvW I would give the win to none bunker ranger.. Maybe in SPvP/TPvP but not in WvW. I personally prefer full trapper build in TPvP but that’s for team support and not 1v1. Even know I’ve seen allot trap rangers destroy bunker rangers 1v1.

I had a d/d Elementalist do some serious damage to me the other day, making me wonder if some of them are easing up on the bunker side of things, and going towards a more hybrid build that does more damage.

God forbid any of them learn how potent the Life Steal food is, changing thier builds accordingly.

Your videos have me wondering if I shouldn’t switch from Rata Sum runes, to Soldier runes.

with near-perma vigor, high regen, HS + 3 leap finishers, and 3 spammable evades, a bunker ranger really has no excuse for losing to a d/d, whose burst chain is entirely dodgeable. unless it’s a 2v1. will you be able to kill one? likely not, unless youre condition/bunker.

I’m working on getting Superior Rune of the Nightmare personally..

I have 40% condition duration from food, and need an extra 10% to shore up some bleeds/burns I have..

Xsorus.2507:

I’m working on getting Superior Rune of the Nightmare personally..

I have 40% condition duration from food, and need an extra 10% to shore up some bleeds/burns I have..

Might be quicker to grab one of the Giver’s style weapons. They give 10% as well.

jkctmc.8754:

Xsorus.2507:

I’m working on getting Superior Rune of the Nightmare personally..

I have 40% condition duration from food, and need an extra 10% to shore up some bleeds/burns I have..

Might be quicker to grab one of the Giver’s style weapons. They give 10% as well.

I’d lose important stats on that one.

Would rather just work on getting Nightmares

runes of the undead (added to pizza and 25 stacks of corruption) gives about 1600 condition damage, which is absolutely disgusting considering how much tank you have. i havent met any prof/spec that i couldnt melt. i will need a lot of convincing to give up undead!

nerva.7940:

runes of the undead (added to pizza and 25 stacks of corruption) gives about 1600 condition damage, which is absolutely disgusting considering how much tank you have. i havent met any prof/spec that i couldnt melt. i will need a lot of convincing to give up undead!

Difference between Undead and Nightmare is basically 50 Toughness and the Bonus Condition damage from 5% of toughness is condition damage.

In exchange you get 10% condition duration which will add 1 second to your Torch Throw/SplitBlade and a few other bleeds that are close to that mark. That’s if you use Rare Veggie Pizza.

Oh and the number 6 is a fear….. Not sure how good it is, I know that it’ll fear sometimes on 100B’s for example or any channel attack….

nerva.7940:

runes of the undead (added to pizza and 25 stacks of corruption) gives about 1600 condition damage, which is absolutely disgusting considering how much tank you have. i havent met any prof/spec that i couldnt melt. i will need a lot of convincing to give up undead!

This, I’ll run undead (or melandru in the past) and the amount of damage I can put out and still be survivable is great. My guess is you run more defensive stats than me though and my condition damage is below yours as I try and run as high a precision as I can for the chance on crit to bleed sigil as well as life steal food which means lower healing. I don’t gain the corruption stacks.

I might try dropping my precision some to get my condition a little higher but I like the life steal and chance to bleed on crit and not worrying about my positioning as I only run traps in sPVP and not in W3 so in W3 I like to know I can bleed without moving behind them.

I agree with Xsorus on the condition duration but I’ve just found I prefer the extra condition damage from undead and can get higher duration from food anyway, I prefer the damage.

Xsorus.2507:

nerva.7940:

runes of the undead (added to pizza and 25 stacks of corruption) gives about 1600 condition damage, which is absolutely disgusting considering how much tank you have. i havent met any prof/spec that i couldnt melt. i will need a lot of convincing to give up undead!

Difference between Undead and Nightmare is basically 50 Toughness and the Bonus Condition damage from 5% of toughness is condition damage.

In exchange you get 10% condition duration which will add 1 second to your Torch Throw/SplitBlade and a few other bleeds that are close to that mark. That’s if you use Rare Veggie Pizza.

Oh and the number 6 is a fear….. Not sure how good it is, I know that it’ll fear sometimes on 100B’s for example or any channel attack….

Nightmare runes actually give +20% duration. The tool tip says +4% and +6% but i read somewhere that its +6% and +14%. Not sure if those are the exact numbers but it definitely gives 20% duration in total.

Condition Duration >>>> Condition Damage

Even one second longer duration on 18 stacks of bleed, an average stack for me will do an extra (102*18) 324 damage. Depending on how high your condition damage is, you’re better off increasing the duration.

Now that I said that, this all depends on what you are fighting, and how much condition removal tools they’re using. Condition duration in my opinion is more important for another reason. It lengthens the duration of the most important conditions; Poison, Weakness, and Chill.

Man, I might have to buy another set of armor, and go to a full Condition build. Gearing out five toons, and switching builds all the time leaves me broke.

jkctmc.8754:

Condition Duration >>>> Condition Damage.

In sPVP yes, or anywhere in fact but outside of sPVP you can gain a lot more than the runes alone can provide with food which makes the pretty huge lump of condition damage you can gain from undead runes more interesting, even more so when you factor in, as you said removal tools. Although the food and runes of the nightmare together would be interesting to try, I don’t have those runes outside of the mists though.

Nugget.8031:

Nightmare runes actually give +20% duration. The tool tip says +4% and +6% but i read somewhere that its +6% and +14%. Not sure if those are the exact numbers but it definitely gives 20% duration in total.

THAT actually makes them sound way better, that’s pretty huge for just runes alone. You say definitely though, have you tried it?

capuchinseven.8395:

nerva.7940:

runes of the undead (added to pizza and 25 stacks of corruption) gives about 1600 condition damage, which is absolutely disgusting considering how much tank you have. i havent met any prof/spec that i couldnt melt. i will need a lot of convincing to give up undead!

This, I’ll run undead (or melandru in the past) and the amount of damage I can put out and still be survivable is great. My guess is you run more defensive stats than me though and my condition damage is below yours as I try and run as high a precision as I can for the chance on crit to bleed sigil as well as life steal food which means lower healing. I don’t gain the corruption stacks.

I might try dropping my precision some to get my condition a little higher but I like the life steal and chance to bleed on crit and not worrying about my positioning as I only run traps in sPVP and not in W3 so in W3 I like to know I can bleed without moving behind them.

I agree with Xsorus on the condition duration but I’ve just found I prefer the extra condition damage from undead and can get higher duration from food anyway, I prefer the damage.

The way it works is, lets say you just have the 40% condition duration from food..

Your torch throw will say “Does X amount of damage over 8 1/2 seconds” You don’t get that 1/2 second of damage.. So basically any Condition Duration from the 40% food that is 1/2, 3/4, 1/3 is wasted….

If you pickup an extra 10% condition duration from any source, You bump the Torch throw to 9 seconds, Which means you gain an extra 600-700 damage on your burn

Xsorus.2507:

capuchinseven.8395:

nerva.7940:

runes of the undead (added to pizza and 25 stacks of corruption) gives about 1600 condition damage, which is absolutely disgusting considering how much tank you have. i havent met any prof/spec that i couldnt melt. i will need a lot of convincing to give up undead!

This, I’ll run undead (or melandru in the past) and the amount of damage I can put out and still be survivable is great. My guess is you run more defensive stats than me though and my condition damage is below yours as I try and run as high a precision as I can for the chance on crit to bleed sigil as well as life steal food which means lower healing. I don’t gain the corruption stacks.

I might try dropping my precision some to get my condition a little higher but I like the life steal and chance to bleed on crit and not worrying about my positioning as I only run traps in sPVP and not in W3 so in W3 I like to know I can bleed without moving behind them.

I agree with Xsorus on the condition duration but I’ve just found I prefer the extra condition damage from undead and can get higher duration from food anyway, I prefer the damage.

The way it works is, lets say you just have the 40% condition duration from food..

Your torch throw will say “Does X amount of damage over 8 1/2 seconds” You don’t get that 1/2 second of damage.. So basically any Condition Duration from the 40% food that is 1/2, 3/4, 1/3 is wasted….

If you pickup an extra 10% condition duration from any source, You bump the Torch throw to 9 seconds, Which means you gain an extra 600-700 damage on your burn

Yes but condition removal really needs to be considered from a PVP and WvW point of view, as well as things like bleeds reaching a max when applied by more than more source.

Hence why I’m not sure I’d want to run the runes and food.

capuchinseven.8395:

Xsorus.2507:

capuchinseven.8395:

nerva.7940:

runes of the undead (added to pizza and 25 stacks of corruption) gives about 1600 condition damage, which is absolutely disgusting considering how much tank you have. i havent met any prof/spec that i couldnt melt. i will need a lot of convincing to give up undead!

This, I’ll run undead (or melandru in the past) and the amount of damage I can put out and still be survivable is great. My guess is you run more defensive stats than me though and my condition damage is below yours as I try and run as high a precision as I can for the chance on crit to bleed sigil as well as life steal food which means lower healing. I don’t gain the corruption stacks.

I might try dropping my precision some to get my condition a little higher but I like the life steal and chance to bleed on crit and not worrying about my positioning as I only run traps in sPVP and not in W3 so in W3 I like to know I can bleed without moving behind them.

I agree with Xsorus on the condition duration but I’ve just found I prefer the extra condition damage from undead and can get higher duration from food anyway, I prefer the damage.

The way it works is, lets say you just have the 40% condition duration from food..

Your torch throw will say “Does X amount of damage over 8 1/2 seconds” You don’t get that 1/2 second of damage.. So basically any Condition Duration from the 40% food that is 1/2, 3/4, 1/3 is wasted….

If you pickup an extra 10% condition duration from any source, You bump the Torch throw to 9 seconds, Which means you gain an extra 600-700 damage on your burn

Yes but condition removal really needs to be considered from a PVP and WvW point of view, as well as things like bleeds reaching a max when applied by more than more source.

Hence why I’m not sure I’d want to run the runes and food.

from a WvW standpoint, I run into more people with no condition removal then those with it..

Xsorus.2507:

capuchinseven.8395:

Xsorus.2507:

capuchinseven.8395:

nerva.7940:

runes of the undead (added to pizza and 25 stacks of corruption) gives about 1600 condition damage, which is absolutely disgusting considering how much tank you have. i havent met any prof/spec that i couldnt melt. i will need a lot of convincing to give up undead!

This, I’ll run undead (or melandru in the past) and the amount of damage I can put out and still be survivable is great. My guess is you run more defensive stats than me though and my condition damage is below yours as I try and run as high a precision as I can for the chance on crit to bleed sigil as well as life steal food which means lower healing. I don’t gain the corruption stacks.

I might try dropping my precision some to get my condition a little higher but I like the life steal and chance to bleed on crit and not worrying about my positioning as I only run traps in sPVP and not in W3 so in W3 I like to know I can bleed without moving behind them.

I agree with Xsorus on the condition duration but I’ve just found I prefer the extra condition damage from undead and can get higher duration from food anyway, I prefer the damage.

The way it works is, lets say you just have the 40% condition duration from food..

Your torch throw will say “Does X amount of damage over 8 1/2 seconds” You don’t get that 1/2 second of damage.. So basically any Condition Duration from the 40% food that is 1/2, 3/4, 1/3 is wasted….

If you pickup an extra 10% condition duration from any source, You bump the Torch throw to 9 seconds, Which means you gain an extra 600-700 damage on your burn

Yes but condition removal really needs to be considered from a PVP and WvW point of view, as well as things like bleeds reaching a max when applied by more than more source.

Hence why I’m not sure I’d want to run the runes and food.

from a WvW standpoint, I run into more people with no condition removal then those with it..

That’s a fair point, I run with a tight group and we’ll condition remove a lot, but your point is fair. And I do agree with your main point, duration is better than damage I’m just not sure I want to run the food and the runes (I’m just trying to convince myself so I don’t have to spend more money on a runes change.

As a ranger interested in build design, what kind of procs are people getting off their crits? Weapon sigils? Or is there stuff we have inherently?

capuchinseven.8395:

Xsorus.2507:

capuchinseven.8395:

Xsorus.2507:

capuchinseven.8395:

nerva.7940:

runes of the undead (added to pizza and 25 stacks of corruption) gives about 1600 condition damage, which is absolutely disgusting considering how much tank you have. i havent met any prof/spec that i couldnt melt. i will need a lot of convincing to give up undead!

This, I’ll run undead (or melandru in the past) and the amount of damage I can put out and still be survivable is great. My guess is you run more defensive stats than me though and my condition damage is below yours as I try and run as high a precision as I can for the chance on crit to bleed sigil as well as life steal food which means lower healing. I don’t gain the corruption stacks.

I might try dropping my precision some to get my condition a little higher but I like the life steal and chance to bleed on crit and not worrying about my positioning as I only run traps in sPVP and not in W3 so in W3 I like to know I can bleed without moving behind them.

I agree with Xsorus on the condition duration but I’ve just found I prefer the extra condition damage from undead and can get higher duration from food anyway, I prefer the damage.

The way it works is, lets say you just have the 40% condition duration from food..

Your torch throw will say “Does X amount of damage over 8 1/2 seconds” You don’t get that 1/2 second of damage.. So basically any Condition Duration from the 40% food that is 1/2, 3/4, 1/3 is wasted….

If you pickup an extra 10% condition duration from any source, You bump the Torch throw to 9 seconds, Which means you gain an extra 600-700 damage on your burn

Yes but condition removal really needs to be considered from a PVP and WvW point of view, as well as things like bleeds reaching a max when applied by more than more source.

Hence why I’m not sure I’d want to run the runes and food.

from a WvW standpoint, I run into more people with no condition removal then those with it..

That’s a fair point, I run with a tight group and we’ll condition remove a lot, but your point is fair. And I do agree with your main point, duration is better than damage I’m just not sure I want to run the food and the runes (I’m just trying to convince myself so I don’t have to spend more money on a runes change.

I mean you don’t have to do the dungeons for the Superior Rune of nightmare if ya don’t want..I mean it’s not a massive deal…its just something i’m working on getting right now

Othayuni.7369:

As a ranger interested in build design, what kind of procs are people getting off their crits? Weapon sigils? Or is there stuff we have inherently?

If you run the regular BM Bunker build?

which is 0/0/30/10/30…Sigil of Geomancy is your best bet.

Your crit will be low already, so using Crit based sigils with a setup like that is pointless.

Sigil of Geomancy will give you a pbae 3 stack bleed every time you weapon swap.

now if you go with a more power based build with fury stacking, There are a bunch of different sigils for that.

But the condition based build, put a Sigil of Geomancy on both weapon sets. I use Corruption as my other sigil on the weapon sets.

Provided the BM ranger knows how to avoid trap damage, it will probably win imo.

Xsorus.2507:

capuchinseven.8395:

Xsorus.2507:

capuchinseven.8395:

nerva.7940:

runes of the undead (added to pizza and 25 stacks of corruption) gives about 1600 condition damage, which is absolutely disgusting considering how much tank you have. i havent met any prof/spec that i couldnt melt. i will need a lot of convincing to give up undead!

This, I’ll run undead (or melandru in the past) and the amount of damage I can put out and still be survivable is great. My guess is you run more defensive stats than me though and my condition damage is below yours as I try and run as high a precision as I can for the chance on crit to bleed sigil as well as life steal food which means lower healing. I don’t gain the corruption stacks.

I might try dropping my precision some to get my condition a little higher but I like the life steal and chance to bleed on crit and not worrying about my positioning as I only run traps in sPVP and not in W3 so in W3 I like to know I can bleed without moving behind them.

I agree with Xsorus on the condition duration but I’ve just found I prefer the extra condition damage from undead and can get higher duration from food anyway, I prefer the damage.

The way it works is, lets say you just have the 40% condition duration from food..

Your torch throw will say “Does X amount of damage over 8 1/2 seconds” You don’t get that 1/2 second of damage.. So basically any Condition Duration from the 40% food that is 1/2, 3/4, 1/3 is wasted….

If you pickup an extra 10% condition duration from any source, You bump the Torch throw to 9 seconds, Which means you gain an extra 600-700 damage on your burn

Yes but condition removal really needs to be considered from a PVP and WvW point of view, as well as things like bleeds reaching a max when applied by more than more source.

Hence why I’m not sure I’d want to run the runes and food.

from a WvW standpoint, I run into more people with no condition removal then those with it..

I guess I’ve experienced the opposite then b/c I normally run into people that either spec for some form of condition removal or they are around others that remove it for them. I know on my guardian for example, I remove 2 conditions every 10 seconds passively. I would rather have the few seconds that my burn is on someone like that to hit harder than bank on the extra duration to run it’s course.

In the video I am a BM ranger and Neshiba is a trap ranger…

capuchinseven.8395:

jkctmc.8754:

Condition Duration >>>> Condition Damage.

In sPVP yes, or anywhere in fact but outside of sPVP you can gain a lot more than the runes alone can provide with food which makes the pretty huge lump of condition damage you can gain from undead runes more interesting, even more so when you factor in, as you said removal tools. Although the food and runes of the nightmare together would be interesting to try, I don’t have those runes outside of the mists though.

Nugget.8031:

Nightmare runes actually give +20% duration. The tool tip says +4% and +6% but i read somewhere that its +6% and +14%. Not sure if those are the exact numbers but it definitely gives 20% duration in total.

THAT actually makes them sound way better, that’s pretty huge for just runes alone. You say definitely though, have you tried it?

Yep Nightmare and lich both give 20% duration.