Guild Wars 2

I’ve been enjoying trapper ranger a lot, and i haven’t pay any attention on changes lately, but i did read them now, and got little confused, can some one give me some explanations:

• traps have 0.5 arming time
  Does that mean ranger has to stand still for 0.5sec and place it on the ground OR does this mean when you put it on the ground they will trigger 0.5sec after you place them down.

• traps are no longer ground target-able
  To me personally, throwing traps made trapper ranger unique, and elegant to play.
  I’m really curious why would they remove this mechanics that made this play style unique? Just because guardian specialization got traps, and Anet team consider to remove ground targeting on ranger just because guards can’t do it? Did they really break trapper ranger just because they didn’t want to make guardian players feel bad about ranger traps, because they would be superior ?

Currently i’m very disappointed and i’m enjoying my last days of trapper ranger. It’s braking the only good mechanics that made this class play-style unique:S I’m really disappointed about this changes.
————————————————————————————————————————-
I really hope druid would give us trap throwing back.

Why do you think trapper ground targeting was removed, and why?
AND off topics, it’s about time for DRUID spec, don’t you think guys?

Firelysm.4967:

I’ve been enjoying trapper ranger a lot, and i haven’t pay any attention on changes lately, but i did read them now, and got little confused, can some one give me some explanations:

- traps have 0.5 arming time
Does that mean ranger has to stand still for 0.5sec and place it on the ground OR does this mean when you put it on the ground they will trigger 0.5sec after you place them down.

- traps are no longer ground target-able
To me personally, throwing traps made trapper ranger unique, and elegant to play.
I’m really curious why would they remove this mechanics that made this play style unique? Just because guardian specialization got traps, and Anet team consider to remove ground targeting on ranger just because guards can’t do it? Did they really break trapper ranger just because they didn’t want to make guardian players feel bad about ranger traps ?

Currently i’m very disappointed and i’m enjoying my last days of trapper ranger. It’s braking the only good mechanics that made this class play-style unique:S I’m really disappointed about this changes.

I really hope druid would give us trap throwing back.

Why do you think trapper ground targeting was removed, and why?
AND off topics, it’s about time for DRUID spec, don’t you think guys?

Because of trapper rune abuse I guess. They might plan to make them PvP or stronghold. That’s my guess.

Klonko.8341:

Because of trapper rune abuse I guess. They might plan to make them PvP.

There is no trapper rune in PvP.
How about two questions that i posted, any clue?

Firelysm.4967:

Klonko.8341:

Because of trapper rune abuse I guess. They might plan to make them PvP.

There is no trapper rune in PvP.
How about two questions that i posted, any clue?

with the changes , they may add them to Pvp is what he was saying.

with the traps No the Arming time is Seperate from casting so you can lay them down as normal and just run alone.

the removal from throwing traps , is more likely from the devs getting closer to gw1 ideology where any trap was not throw able since setting a trap is a means of Pshyical effort and you can’t set it without hands.

spike traps becomming a KD so it makes it easier for a player to lay a extra trap or two if you wait for the KD to kick in or start planting traps 0.25s apart from the arming time to cause a Chain Reaction of Activating traps which the KD spike trap allows for Maximum damage without risk of the target dodge rolling out it, the only way to break out of that combo is to stunbreak and or use Stability.

the changes shouldnt effect the use of trapper runes in anyway as you’ll still gain stealth on cast as it is now.

though i really like it this way where you don;t have to go full into Skirmishing just to use 1 trap or 2 now you can run any combination of traps mixed with anything else and not be Trait Restricted.

Klonko.8341:

Firelysm.4967:

I’ve been enjoying trapper ranger a lot, and i haven’t pay any attention on changes lately, but i did read them now, and got little confused, can some one give me some explanations:

- traps have 0.5 arming time
Does that mean ranger has to stand still for 0.5sec and place it on the ground OR does this mean when you put it on the ground they will trigger 0.5sec after you place them down.

- traps are no longer ground target-able
To me personally, throwing traps made trapper ranger unique, and elegant to play.
I’m really curious why would they remove this mechanics that made this play style unique? Just because guardian specialization got traps, and Anet team consider to remove ground targeting on ranger just because guards can’t do it? Did they really break trapper ranger just because they didn’t want to make guardian players feel bad about ranger traps ?

Currently i’m very disappointed and i’m enjoying my last days of trapper ranger. It’s braking the only good mechanics that made this class play-style unique:S I’m really disappointed about this changes.

I really hope druid would give us trap throwing back.

Why do you think trapper ground targeting was removed, and why?
AND off topics, it’s about time for DRUID spec, don’t you think guys?

Because of trapper rune abuse I guess. They might plan to make them PvP or stronghold. That’s my guess.

Trapper rune “abuse”? Lol, that’s the most ridiculous statement I’ve read for a long time.
The biggest reason for them to remove ground targeted traps is most likely the update they got and the fact that HS is a trap now too.

I’d appreciate ground targeted traps coming back, not only because the lack thereof destroys an entire build and because traps are the only “spamable” AoE Rangers got.

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

the changes shouldnt effect the use of trapper runes in anyway as you’ll still gain stealth on cast as it is now.

That’s not entirely true. Frost trap will reveal you if triggered, and it’s going to be a lot harder to hide in stealth since you can’t throw the traps off to the side anymore.

I really wish they were doing a better job of trying to balance things with these upcoming trait changes instead of trying to fit them into some thematic element.

ANet basically made the stealth on this rune useless for Rangers. The only time you can gain stealth is when engaging an enemy and you have to use the traps you want to fight with.

i play a lot of Trapper Ranger in WvW, without the trap throwing trait … you dont need it anyways so im glad that its gone

Puck.9612:

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

the changes shouldnt effect the use of trapper runes in anyway as you’ll still gain stealth on cast as it is now.

That’s not entirely true. Frost trap will reveal you if triggered, and it’s going to be a lot harder to hide in stealth since you can’t throw the traps off to the side anymore.

I really wish they were doing a better job of trying to balance things with these upcoming trait changes instead of trying to fit them into some thematic element.

This right here, i really think they have destroyed trapper ranger with that removal. I think throwing traps should be default and make trigger time 1 second. still better option to me.

What they made now is:

• break all the mechanics that trapper ranger had

• you cannot throw trap any more to engage target, now you have to go full melee to do your thing.

• your escape is punished, there is no more mechanics to engage or disengage, because enemy always knows your position if you try to stealth with trapper runes.
  
  So basically trapper and spirit ranger got nerfed even thought changed got some side effect buffs but mechanics that made things fun are gone.

We are slowly losing good mechanics that made ranger diverse:

• movable spirits

• ground targeting traps

ArenaNet please reconsider your changes about trapper and i’m offering solution:
Make all traps arm time 0.5 > 3/4 (0.75)sec or even 1 sec. But make it default throwable. Keep mechanics viable and in game! Don’t remove your amazing mechanics for love of amazing combat that this provided!

Seriously thrown trap were awfully situational you couldnt hit them as they were slow projectile and were not instant triggered. Perso nothing changed with the traps. My only complain would be the dragon hunter traps.

Just because you have a problem with hitting things, doesn’t mean everyone has.

Klonko.8341:

Seriously thrown trap were awfully situational you couldnt hit them as they were slow projectile and were not instant triggered. Perso nothing changed with the traps. My only complain would be the dragon hunter traps.

Situational? I ran Cele trapper in the recent ToL. We ranked top 9 in our bracket so….
What were you saying again?

WvW perspective here. Not a vet on the Ranger by any means since I swap between my Guardian and Ranger. I run two builds more or less one which is full zerk/power and my fav condi/trapper.

2 (III)
6 (II, VIII, XI)
6 (VI, VII, XI)
0
0

I run LB, Axe, Torch with frost, flame, spike traps and entangle. Post patch I’m still trying to figure out what will make sense but it seems I’ll have a few trait points back to spread around. So anything is possible at this point. Since I’m already condition based with traps I’m probably going to continue and focus more on getting people to enter the traps while I pepper them with LB from range – then juke them a bit to toss some axes in there for bleeds. May work, maybe not. We’ll see.

There really isn’t any abuse with the runes of the trapper. They just offer some defensive features when used such as stealth and speed. Both come in handy more so if you run 3 traps. Anyway – post patch I think they may not work as good and I can see myself running krait or even traveler. Swap food around a bit and I’ll probably be right back to today but with perma speed which could be nice.

to answer your first queston: once the trap has been placed, there is a 0,5sec delay until the trap can trigger.

about throwable traps: i think it makes sense to not be able to throw traps. It’s a much needed nerf IMO since trapper ranger was awfully strong in WvW roaming! One of the more cheesy builds for sure. You could always keep your range, kiting, and still hit traps very easily by throwing them.
Another nerf would be frost trap now pulsing damage → reveals stealth

That being said, trapper ranger also got a few really nice buffs:
- bigger trigger radius and effect radius
- healing spring is now a trap skill (!!!!!), this gives us active condi removal so we don’t rely on passive removal from traits anymore → more build variety!
- overall buffs on traps damage and condition durations

I think that those changes will make the trapper ranger less cheesy but it will still be strong and fun to play.
The only one thing that i really strongly dislike is that the super speed from trapper runes will not affect our movement skills (GS #3, sword #2,…) anymore. That might be the biggest nerf of all.

quBit.6437:

to answer your first queston: once the trap has been placed, there is a 0,5sec delay until the trap can trigger.

about throwable traps: i think it makes sense to not be able to throw traps. It’s a much needed nerf IMO since trapper ranger was awfully strong in WvW roaming! One of the more cheesy builds for sure. You could always keep your range, kiting, and still hit traps very easily by throwing them.
Another nerf would be frost trap now pulsing damage -> reveals stealth

That being said, trapper ranger also got a few really nice buffs:
- bigger trigger radius and effect radius
- healing spring is now a trap skill (!!!!!), this gives us active condi removal so we don’t rely on passive removal from traits anymore -> more build variety!
- overall buffs on traps damage and condition durations

I think that those changes will make the trapper ranger less cheesy but it will still be strong and fun to play.
The only one thing that i really strongly dislike is that the super speed from trapper runes will not affect our movement skills (GS #3, sword #2,…) anymore. That might be the biggest nerf of all.

I kind of don’t appreciate the changes because they will destroy the mechanically most amazing ranger build. I still don’t see a reason why they removed the trap ground targeting. They could simply make ranger traps default throw-able and enlarge trigger to 1 second. Since ranger is master of hunting and traps. Ranger is more of trapper master then companion (pet master).

I don’t see Druid having trapper option to throw traps cuz guardian have the trap stuff this time. Sadly if ranger is getting chased he wont be able to get away any more. because he cannot place traps on the side so enemy wouldn’t walk on them and reveal you. It’s also an offensive nerf because you could drop spike trap on thiefs shadowstep, so he would get cough when he would try to back, that0s just one example of tactics.. it’s going to be so casual and non-mechanic again.. i hate it.. On the other hand we apply even harder mechanics i’m looking at u REVENANT, while ranger is getting removed basics.. Wish they would remove pet, since it’s dumb anyways. Hope the AI fix will be really what they tell us.

StickerHappy.8052:

Klonko.8341:

Seriously thrown trap were awfully situational you couldnt hit them as they were slow projectile and were not instant triggered. Perso nothing changed with the traps. My only complain would be the dragon hunter traps.

Situational? I ran Cele trapper in the recent ToL. We ranked top 9 in our bracket so….
What were you saying again?

In SPvP you can reliably hit target as they will fight in the circle. This is not the case in WvW.

Arming Time

It means you deploy one, and it takes 0.5s until the trap be ready to get triggered. In the once you deploy it, you’re free to do wht you please but the trap itself won’t trigger until it’s armed

Traps are no longer throwable

They were similar to engie Nades, and I have to say I kinda liked that really. Since there’s 3 professions (that we know as of now) that use traps, it wouldn’t be too fair to have one that has the ability to throw them, even at the cost of a trait. I both like and dislike the changes they’re bringing to ranger traps, but still feel they could get something more.

ProtoMarcus.7649:

They were similar to engie Nades, and I have to say I kinda liked that really. Since there’s 3 professions (that we know as of now) that use traps, it wouldn’t be too fair to have one that has the ability to throw them, even at the cost of a trait. I both like and dislike the changes they’re bringing to ranger traps, but still feel they could get something more.

I’m not seeing how it’s unfair. Let’s look at another example: Currently all classes besides Engineer have signet utilities, yet only Elementalist can retain the passive bonuses whether the signet has been activated or not, if traited. I don’t, however, feel that this is unfair to my Ranger or my Warrior, or…well, you get the idea. It is an extra benefit that that particular class may enjoy. Thieves will now have traps that do not unstealth them when triggered, which my Ranger will not have, apart from the new Healing Spring, perhaps. I also can’t exactly teleport like a thief, so why can’t I have a mechanic that they don’t, as well?

In my mind, this is quite a nerf for WvW, especially. Apart from the Runes of the Trapper thing, this change literally leaves one skill in the entire Ranger kitten nal that is a ground-targeted AoE (for wall fights, for instance)—Barrage. Before, if you could get close enough to the wall, traps were able to be tossed up there and provide pressure. I hope that that taunt trait has sufficient range to pull people off of walls, elsewise it looks like I’ll have to give up on the idea of being a damage dealer and swap to the role of team mascot with the occasional Allies’ Aid resurrection in such situations. Or maybe the new spirits will give me something to do in that 24/30 second window between Barrages besides look pretty (and yes, I know that Quick Draw can bring that down to 8/10 seconds one time, but still)? Hah!

All I see this nonthrowable traps change doing is killing a fun and unique playstyle and build diversity. Maybe I’m wrong, and I’d love to find out that that’s the case come the update, but I’m not seeing it now.

unlikeyou.8452:

All I see this nonthrowable traps change doing is killing a fun and unique playstyle and build diversity. Maybe I’m wrong, and I’d love to find out that that’s the case come the update, but I’m not seeing it now.

Remember when you could send pets up walls and attack people far out? When pets were tanky and did a lot of damage if you specced them right? Anet devs are nothing but fun squashers when it comes to Ranger.

Whatever they do I just hope they’ll never make them default ground-targetable without an option to disable it. I was getting a little nervous because I thought I’d heard something like that.

The casting takes a while as it is (I sometimes jump back and find that the trap has not been placed yet), so I’ll have to see how it works after the change.

WabbaJaga.3861:

Whatever they do I just hope they’ll never make them default ground-targetable without an option to disable it. I was getting a little nervous because I thought I’d heard something like that.

The casting takes a while as it is (I sometimes jump back and find that the trap has not been placed yet), so I’ll have to see how it works after the change

If the casting time is your sole concern, then I think you have nothing to fear. If you throw the trap on your feet, then the projectile has no travel time and the throwing animation is as fast as the placing animation. If you don’t want to click twice, you can also disable ground targeting in the options.

unlikeyou.8452:

ProtoMarcus.7649:

They were similar to engie Nades, and I have to say I kinda liked that really. Since there’s 3 professions (that we know as of now) that use traps, it wouldn’t be too fair to have one that has the ability to throw them, even at the cost of a trait. I both like and dislike the changes they’re bringing to ranger traps, but still feel they could get something more.

I’m not seeing how it’s unfair. Let’s look at another example: Currently all classes besides Engineer have signet utilities, yet only Elementalist can retain the passive bonuses whether the signet has been activated or not, if traited. I don’t, however, feel that this is unfair to my Ranger or my Warrior, or…well, you get the idea. It is an extra benefit that that particular class may enjoy. Thieves will now have traps that do not unstealth them when triggered, which my Ranger will not have, apart from the new Healing Spring, perhaps. I also can’t exactly teleport like a thief, so why can’t I have a mechanic that they don’t, as well?

In my mind, this is quite a nerf for WvW, especially. Apart from the Runes of the Trapper thing, this change literally leaves one skill in the entire Ranger kitten nal that is a ground-targeted AoE (for wall fights, for instance)—Barrage. Before, if you could get close enough to the wall, traps were able to be tossed up there and provide pressure. I hope that that taunt trait has sufficient range to pull people off of walls, elsewise it looks like I’ll have to give up on the idea of being a damage dealer and swap to the role of team mascot with the occasional Allies’ Aid resurrection in such situations. Or maybe the new spirits will give me something to do in that 24/30 second window between Barrages besides look pretty (and yes, I know that Quick Draw can bring that down to 8/10 seconds one time, but still)? Hah!

All I see this nonthrowable traps change doing is killing a fun and unique playstyle and build diversity. Maybe I’m wrong, and I’d love to find out that that’s the case come the update, but I’m not seeing it now.

Exactly this, we have no aoe skills that would make us useful, and the only thing we had to not risk to go in melee range, is now gone. Sadly they want to make ranger-ranged… but we are from update to update to play more closer then ever..
I’m so disappointed that aNet decision is to rather remove mechanics, then implement something unique for every class.

Like removal of spirit movement wasn’t enough we are bounded to brainless tactics now. Unless you are really dumb, you won’t chase the ranger into the trap where he stands.. sadly i’m not surprised.. Anet is lately ruining everything that had some sense of “FUN” in the the build..

Firelysm.4967:

Klonko.8341:

Because of trapper rune abuse I guess. They might plan to make them PvP.

There is no trapper rune in PvP.
How about two questions that i posted, any clue?

Just to define what a trap is.
If you are putting down a trap – it needs to feel like setting one.

I personally didn’t like that traps now (before HoT changes) were literally grenade bombing abilities. It didn’t feel like a trap – it wasn’t used as a trap – it didn’t have anything in common with the term at all.

I can see some potential in them now – but mostly as a defender. That exactly is the point of trap anyways.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Just to define what a trap is.
If you are putting down a trap – it needs to feel like setting one.

I personally didn’t like that traps now (before HoT changes) were literally grenade bombing abilities. It didn’t feel like a trap – it wasn’t used as a trap – it didn’t have anything in common with the term at all.

I can see some potential in them now – but mostly as a defender. That exactly is the point of trap anyways.

Basically he has the thoughts of the change right, but there is probably a bit of the standard ‘too similar to x’ which seems to be the issue with the development of the ranger in general and this particular case it was engineer.

Bran.7425:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Just to define what a trap is.
If you are putting down a trap – it needs to feel like setting one.

I personally didn’t like that traps now (before HoT changes) were literally grenade bombing abilities. It didn’t feel like a trap – it wasn’t used as a trap – it didn’t have anything in common with the term at all.

I can see some potential in them now – but mostly as a defender. That exactly is the point of trap anyways.

Basically he has the thoughts of the change right, but there is probably a bit of the standard ‘too similar to x’ which seems to be the issue with the development of the ranger in general and this particular case it was engineer.

Well, I agree on that.
And I think that the Range on traps could stay… But in order to feel like a trap – the detonation time would have to go up. Which is another nerf that we really don’t need.

If I was a developer, I’d probably solve this issue the same way as casting them at your position.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Firelysm.4967:

Klonko.8341:

Because of trapper rune abuse I guess. They might plan to make them PvP.

There is no trapper rune in PvP.
How about two questions that i posted, any clue?

Just to define what a trap is.
If you are putting down a trap – it needs to feel like setting one.

I personally didn’t like that traps now (before HoT changes) were literally grenade bombing abilities. It didn’t feel like a trap – it wasn’t used as a trap – it didn’t have anything in common with the term at all.

I can see some potential in them now – but mostly as a defender. That exactly is the point of trap anyways.

I really don’t like the idea of nerfing something because it doesn’t fit a theme. They should have renamed traps to something else if that was their problem with them.

Meh – damage or change is done – we’ll see how it goes on Tuesday. I’m just wondering how the trapper runes will work post patch. I really enjoy the trap runes now due to their utility. Not sure how the stealth/speed mechanic is going to work or if it will remain the same.

If it remains the same and you can 3 seconds after the delay then it will be fine and they will be good. If it is not, then time to pick another set.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Firelysm.4967:

Klonko.8341:

Because of trapper rune abuse I guess. They might plan to make them PvP.

There is no trapper rune in PvP.
How about two questions that i posted, any clue?

Just to define what a trap is.
If you are putting down a trap – it needs to feel like setting one.

I personally didn’t like that traps now (before HoT changes) were literally grenade bombing abilities. It didn’t feel like a trap – it wasn’t used as a trap – it didn’t have anything in common with the term at all.

I can see some potential in them now – but mostly as a defender. That exactly is the point of trap anyways.

So you say that spoiling the viability of traps is justified, just because you feel like it’s fitting the trapper theme better?

Literally, the only downside if having throwable traps is that you need to click twice (if you haven’t disabled groundtargeting in the options) to set a trap.

The only arguments I’ve heard for not being able to throw traps are that it fits the theme of traps more.

Oh well, my only hope is that we get a trapper specialization soon that brings back a viable way of fighting with traps.

Crapgame.6519:

Meh – damage or change is done – we’ll see how it goes on Tuesday. I’m just wondering how the trapper runes will work post patch. I really enjoy the trap runes now due to their utility. Not sure how the stealth/speed mechanic is going to work or if it will remain the same.

If it remains the same and you can 3 seconds after the delay then it will be fine and they will be good. If it is not, then time to pick another set.

Simply, they wont, why?

I’ve tried it for few days now, and it’s horrible, you get cough every time, no way to engage with trap, no way to defend yourself with trap, no way to tactical approach with trap, and there is definitely no FUN, in this new build, which is most important thing that we forget, sometimes what is fun, is not right, and what is not OP should stay as it is.

I don’t understand why people say that things are not realistic while they play fantasy game. But if people complain about, I’m having a nice solution and nice play style change.

I don’t understand one thing, for example, why is necro well ok? To be ground target-able? And they are able to use trait to set a huge ground spike, and we are not aloud to use simple traps, and throw them ? I’m not against total demolition, but SIMPLY WHY does every class have to be jack of all trades?

Why can’t one class be better then other in something? Why do guardians get way better traps then rangers? And guardians aren’t even master of traps? Why do guardians have elite trap and rangers don’t, while they are number one class that relies more on traps then pets in fantasy world? And Why can’t be one class unique and better in something that they main role.

Definition of ranger is a master of tracking and master of bow, after that there is beast-mastery as companion, which means tracking and trapping is more important to ranger then actual pet. So i don’t see bigger picture why rangers cannot be masters of what they truly are? A tracking survival hunter with amazing.

Thief’s were never master of traps but they got traps? Thief’s are masters of disarming traps, lock-picking, poison, stealth and quick assassination, but not masters of making traps or setting them up, but they still have them.

So i wonder, why did guardian get traps? Not that i have anything against that? But still It makes no sense to me. I would clearly love to see utility, heal, and elite to become an ranger specialization as dragon hunter.

I’m slowly losing arena net and idk where they are going, but what i’ve noticed over years, every thing that is fun, is removed, anything that is annoying – stays. Everything that requires little skill to master, they remove, and make it more simple, for more casual use.

What i expect from future, expansions (not from Heart of Thorns), but the next one..
I expect option, for casual use and master (advanced use), traps are good example, even in this thread i’ve seen that people don’t know much about trapper, many of them feel that traps are useless when they are throw-able any ways, but in my eyes, ground-target-able traps are advanced tactics that make TRAPPER as fun class.

R.I.P Trapper, it was fun to enjoy you, sadly, your time is over. (specially stealth trapper)

Puck.9612:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Firelysm.4967:

Klonko.8341:

Because of trapper rune abuse I guess. They might plan to make them PvP.

There is no trapper rune in PvP.
How about two questions that i posted, any clue?

Just to define what a trap is.
If you are putting down a trap – it needs to feel like setting one.

I personally didn’t like that traps now (before HoT changes) were literally grenade bombing abilities. It didn’t feel like a trap – it wasn’t used as a trap – it didn’t have anything in common with the term at all.

I can see some potential in them now – but mostly as a defender. That exactly is the point of trap anyways.

I really don’t like the idea of nerfing something because it doesn’t fit a theme. They should have renamed traps to something else if that was their problem with them.

And this. Not that spirits got more boring mechanics then ever, now trapper is useless too. Welcome to world of Longbow and Condi ranger. Yes there will be born new styles of ranger, and i support that, but why destroy other game styles while you can keep them? And make this class diverse and play it as you wish. It’s just sad that arena net doesn’t see the bigger picture here.

Firelysm.4967:

…

Definition of ranger is a master of tracking and master of bow

…

This again… ?

But yes, I’m aware of traps having severe issues.
But I’m not sure if you were talking about Bunker Builds or not. That place has a real tendency to spike up since you can get some serious CC and condi bombing hand in hand with disruption.

If you lure the enemy into the traps of yours, with so many condition damage paired with your own you can pull off now since everything will stack is just over the horizon.

If you fail to see that than the text you wrote is just as valid as the statement that I highlighted. Everyone who plays for a while already knows what I’m talking about and I don’t feel like repeating it again. You’d ignore it anyways.

But I’ll risk it and say that you have been misunderstanding ranger for a Hunter. This is not World of Warcraft.

How was throwing traps a unique playstyle? It more or less turned them into grenades.

If anything, it’s more unique now with the arming time and the aspects of positional control, whereas the thrown ones were really just grenades to toss on people.

I’m a bit worried that the new traps won’t synergize so well with the trapper runes, which would suck. It’s not that we can’t run a trap build without those runes, but they are the “trap” runes for a reason. Aside from healing spring, anyways, that will always provide guaranteed stealth.

I think they should make traps throwable by default and then give a trait called “Prepared Traps”
The trait would make you set traps at your feet but each trap would have a much stronger effect added to it on top of its’ regular affect. Like one would get immobilize, 1 would get stun, knockdown , etc.

Depending on a persons playstyle they could choose whether they want to set up tactical defensive traps or have a more active ranged aoe attack.

I can’t understand in the slightest how all the nay-sayers are arguing that throwable traps would be like grenades. You can lay your traps down before a fight starts, just like you can after the update. You can do that even faster, since you can cover a bigger area when throwing the traps. Grenades explode instant, while traps remain until an enemy steps on them. Also, grenades can be thrown further. The only difference between today and tuesday is that today your traps don’t become completely and utterly useless when the enemy starts running away.

Wuselknusel.4082:

I can’t understand in the slightest how all the nay-sayers are arguing that throwable traps would be like grenades. You can lay your traps down before a fight starts, just like you can after the update. You can do that even faster, since you can cover a bigger area when throwing the traps. Grenades explode instant, while traps remain until an enemy steps on them. Also, grenades can be thrown further. The only difference between today and tuesday is that today your traps don’t become completely and utterly useless when the enemy starts running away.

Because people throw traps directly onto opponents as they like the instant activation. If you’re just going to throw them around the general area and guide the enemies into it, you might as well just be placing them at your feet.

No one that runs a trap build will spread them out either. They will generally try to “trap bomb” them by having them all go off at the same time. For that, it doesn’t really matter if you place them at your feet or on throw them off to the side. If you have time to throw you traps all over the place and make enemies run into them, you also have time to move to those places to set them and get the enemies to run into them.

And if someone wants to run away from your traps, they’re going to get away. Throwing traps is a relatively poor option to stop runners, especially considering the other options available to rangers.

The other main reason people like throwable traps is because they can throw them off to some obscure area and more or less guarantee the stealth activation since an enemy won’t run over them. It has nothing to do with “unique playstyles” or “using the traps more effectively”, it’s just about getting the benefits of the trapper runes to trigger without even really needing the trap to do anything at all (being a makeshift thief).

Some of the things throwable traps did provide was the ability to attack people on or below ledges with your traps (again, making them essentially grenades), and being able to throw them towards people without exposing yourself to the enemy’s melee attacks.

The actual traps themselves are also getting buffed, with more significant initial effects, so it’s not like they will be objectively less powerful. Of course, the cripple portion of the trait is quite lackluster, so hopefully they’ll buff that at some point.

Yamsandjams.3267:

Wuselknusel.4082:

I can’t understand in the slightest how all the nay-sayers are arguing that throwable traps would be like grenades. You can lay your traps down before a fight starts, just like you can after the update. You can do that even faster, since you can cover a bigger area when throwing the traps. Grenades explode instant, while traps remain until an enemy steps on them. Also, grenades can be thrown further. The only difference between today and tuesday is that today your traps don’t become completely and utterly useless when the enemy starts running away.

Because people throw traps directly onto opponents as they like the instant activation. If you’re just going to throw them around the general area and guide the enemies into it, you might as well just be placing them at your feet.

No one that runs a trap build will spread them out either. They will generally try to “trap bomb” them by having them all go off at the same time. For that, it doesn’t really matter if you place them at your feet or on throw them off to the side. If you have time to throw you traps all over the place and make enemies run into them, you also have time to move to those places to set them and get the enemies to run into them.

And if someone wants to run away from your traps, they’re going to get away. Throwing traps is a relatively poor option to stop runners, especially considering the other options available to rangers.

The other main reason people like throwable traps is because they can throw them off to some obscure area and more or less guarantee the stealth activation since an enemy won’t run over them. It has nothing to do with “unique playstyles” or “using the traps more effectively”, it’s just about getting the benefits of the trapper runes to trigger without even really needing the trap to do anything at all (being a makeshift thief).

Some of the things throwable traps did provide was the ability to attack people on or below ledges with your traps (again, making them essentially grenades), and being able to throw them towards people without exposing yourself to the enemy’s melee attacks.

The actual traps themselves are also getting buffed, with more significant initial effects, so it’s not like they will be objectively less powerful. Of course, the cripple portion of the trait is quite lackluster, so hopefully they’ll buff that at some point.

Exactly this, Traps are so underpowered I would rather “trap bomb” them.

IF they did something remarkable and change the tides of battle, then we can talk about strategic placing for them.

I still think that people don’t realize what will

• Knockdown; 6 stacks of bleed
• 15 seconds of AoE chilled
• automatic reapplication of Burning/Poison

do with your enemies. Half of the defensive abilities are going to be blown just from entering your point.
Not potent at all?

As already said: I’m fine if the traps can be thrown. But that would ask for higher arming time (1 / 1,5 seconds? ) for enemies to have chance to walk out of there (I’d like to see your rage at that point, guyz).
Ranged AoE knockdown on 20 second cooldown that cannot be blocked? Yea, sure, I would like that too.
And that’s why it’s wrong to have it. Traps should be defensive. Not offensive. And they can slap some serious a** at the moment. But you need to know why and where to use them.

Tragic Positive.9356:

I still think that people don’t realize what will

• Knockdown; 6 stacks of bleed
• 15 seconds of AoE chilled
• automatic reapplication of Burning/Poison

do with your enemies. Half of the defensive abilities are going to be blown just from entering your point.
Not potent at all?

As already said: I’m fine if the traps can be thrown. But that would ask for higher arming time (1 / 1,5 seconds? ) for enemies to have chance to walk out of there (I’d like to see your rage at that point, guyz).
Ranged AoE knockdown on 20 second cooldown that cannot be blocked? Yea, sure, I would like that too.
And that’s why it’s wrong to have it. Traps should be defensive. Not offensive. And they can slap some serious a** at the moment. But you need to know why and where to use them.

Revenant is getting a ranged aoe knockdown on a 15 second cool down, and they aren’t wasting a utility slot for it.

Tragic Positive.9356:

I still think that people don’t realize what will

• Knockdown; 6 stacks of bleed
• 15 seconds of AoE chilled
• automatic reapplication of Burning/Poison

do with your enemies. Half of the defensive abilities are going to be blown just from entering your point.
Not potent at all?

As already said: I’m fine if the traps can be thrown. But that would ask for higher arming time (1 / 1,5 seconds? ) for enemies to have chance to walk out of there (I’d like to see your rage at that point, guyz).
Ranged AoE knockdown on 20 second cooldown that cannot be blocked? Yea, sure, I would like that too.
And that’s why it’s wrong to have it. Traps should be defensive. Not offensive. And they can slap some serious a** at the moment. But you need to know why and where to use them.

Assuming they are braindead enough to stay in a trap that long. 15 seconds chill is hardly possible against a decent player without blowing all your immobs, but then again he can just cleanse or port away.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Firelysm.4967:

…

Definition of ranger is a master of tracking and master of bow

…

This again… ?

But yes, I’m aware of traps having severe issues.
But I’m not sure if you were talking about Bunker Builds or not. That place has a real tendency to spike up since you can get some serious CC and condi bombing hand in hand with disruption.

If you lure the enemy into the traps of yours, with so many condition damage paired with your own you can pull off now since everything will stack is just over the horizon.

If you fail to see that than the text you wrote is just as valid as the statement that I highlighted. Everyone who plays for a while already knows what I’m talking about and I don’t feel like repeating it again. You’d ignore it anyways.

But I’ll risk it and say that you have been misunderstanding ranger for a Hunter. This is not World of Warcraft.

When will you people start noticing the difference between damage change and play style change? This changes destroys the play style and its elegant movement, period.

Just saying i cannot miss understand ranger for Hunter, because i’ve never played WoW in my life.

Wuselknusel.4082:

I can’t understand in the slightest how all the nay-sayers are arguing that throwable traps would be like grenades. You can lay your traps down before a fight starts, just like you can after the update. You can do that even faster, since you can cover a bigger area when throwing the traps. Grenades explode instant, while traps remain until an enemy steps on them. Also, grenades can be thrown further. The only difference between today and tuesday is that today your traps don’t become completely and utterly useless when the enemy starts running away.

This. People will always complain, but if you don’t play trapper ranger, you don’t see how big of an issue this is. And how big nerf it is, it breaks playstyle and i won’t touch trapper ranger after this changes ever again, because making traps like this and trait entirely for one trap? No thx. Trapping and spirits need own trait line, and there we should decide what’s up, traps should be throwable by default, because you can always throw it on your current position. If you are not fast enough, i’m sorry. Improve, bad trapper ranger is bad for a reason. New trapper rangers won’t work because survival is just not strong enough without trapper runes.

@Yamsandjams.3267
You tell me throwing trap up on the wall is not ok, while necros can set Wells and bomb the wall? How the hell is that fine with you and not throwable traps? Dude, give me valid argument, nothing makes sense that you say.

You clearly didn’t play trapper ranger enough that you would understand that once you chase target after patch, trapps will be useless. Once you get low HP and full HP chase you, you are done because you cannot defend yourself proper way to decide how to spread traps and plan the turn-around. Did you even play trapper enough to see how fast you can die with that setup?

Also throwing traps on the side makes your stealthy for a reason, and people forget that you trait + runes + skills for that play style. What does other class do? Nothing, they just pick armor as usual, traits as usual, and do their thing. We devote much more then other classes to make some build work. And not seeing thing is pure blindness.

@Tragic Positive.9356

Traps should be defensive. Not offensive. And they can slap some serious a** at the moment.
Ranged AoE knockdown on 20 second cooldown that cannot be blocked? Yea, sure, I would like that too.

The kitten? Since when are traps only defensive? In what part of the history it says in middle age people and war tactics were using traps only for defensive tactics? How about hunting, triggering traps and tons of other ways to use them for.

About 2nd part, I bet you’ve heard for stun breakers ? Stability? Yes? good.

Firelysm.4967:

@Tragic Positive.9356

Traps should be defensive. Not offensive. And they can slap some serious a** at the moment.
Ranged AoE knockdown on 20 second cooldown that cannot be blocked? Yea, sure, I would like that too.

The kitten? Since when are traps only defensive? In what part of the history it says in middle age people and war tactics were using traps only for defensive tactics? How about hunting, triggering traps and tons of other ways to use them for.

About 2nd part, I bet you’ve heard for stun breakers ? Stability? Yes? good.

Well yes. I don’t remember a single second where traps were used for siege. Do you? But I know that traps were used to lure and capture or kill animals/enemies/trespassers etc in your or enemy territory by not moving a single finger till the trap went off. Which means ambushes. And yes, ambush is a semi-defensive tactic because you are on the defensive till the trap succeeds. You can go offensive afterwards.

Or are you trying to tell me that there was a time period in a parallel universe where people charged at enemy army throwing traps into their faces? Because that’s news to me.
I actually laughed a bit reading “triggering traps” as an argument of offensive use. Every working trap triggers. What kind of statement is that?

About the reply to the 2nd part:
Have you heard of invulnerability? Evades? Healing? Yes? Then how in the world is this argument valid? It’s the same as saying “damage is pointless because everyone can evade it and everyone can heal back up from it”.
But if this kind of passively-aggressive discussion is what people enjoy these days, I can tag along.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Firelysm.4967:

@Tragic Positive.9356

Traps should be defensive. Not offensive. And they can slap some serious a** at the moment.
Ranged AoE knockdown on 20 second cooldown that cannot be blocked? Yea, sure, I would like that too.

The kitten? Since when are traps only defensive? In what part of the history it says in middle age people and war tactics were using traps only for defensive tactics? How about hunting, triggering traps and tons of other ways to use them for.

About 2nd part, I bet you’ve heard for stun breakers ? Stability? Yes? good.

Well yes. I don’t remember a single second where traps were used for siege. Do you? But I know that traps were used to lure and capture or kill animals/enemies/trespassers etc in your or enemy territory by not moving a single finger till the trap went off. Which means ambushes. And yes, ambush is a semi-defensive tactic because you are on the defensive till the trap succeeds. You can go offensive afterwards.

Or are you trying to tell me that there was a time period in a parallel universe where people charged at enemy army throwing traps into their faces? Because that’s news to me.
I actually laughed a bit reading “triggering traps” as an argument of offensive use. Every working trap triggers. What kind of statement is that?

About the reply to the 2nd part:
Have you heard of invulnerability? Evades? Healing? Yes? Then how in the world is this argument valid? It’s the same as saying “damage is pointless because everyone can evade it and everyone can heal back up from it”.
But if this kind of passively-aggressive discussion is what people enjoy these days, I can tag along.

Oh, the “It’s not realistic” argument again?

So please tell me how warrior banners are realistic. Called in from the sky, they give you specific boons. Or how realistic the usage of greatswords are in this game. The Ranger can block arrows with his greatsword, the Warrior can whirl around like a madman or sprint like there is no tomorrow, the Guardian can pull people in.

Or tell me how realistic Eles, Necros, Mesmers or the Thief’s stealth is.

It’s not about realism, it’s about gameplay mechanic. Throwable traps offer a varied mechanic, such as reaching places you can’t go to or cutting people’s way of by throwing traps in front of them. The usual traps can only be layed down and you have to somehow manage to bait the enemy into it.

So the only playstyle left, that is not completely nerfed after this patch, is playing defensive in PvP. Playing offensive in WvW, defensive in WvW or offensive in PvP wont be possible anymore. Simply as that.

Wuselknusel.4082:

Well yes. I don’t remember a single second where traps were used for siege. Do you? But I know that traps were used to lure and capture or kill animals/enemies/trespassers etc in your or enemy territory by not moving a single finger till the trap went off. Which means ambushes. And yes, ambush is a semi-defensive tactic because you are on the defensive till the trap succeeds. You can go offensive afterwards.

Or are you trying to tell me that there was a time period in a parallel universe where people charged at enemy army throwing traps into their faces? Because that’s news to me.
I actually laughed a bit reading “triggering traps” as an argument of offensive use. Every working trap triggers. What kind of statement is that?

About the reply to the 2nd part:
Have you heard of invulnerability? Evades? Healing? Yes? Then how in the world is this argument valid? It’s the same as saying “damage is pointless because everyone can evade it and everyone can heal back up from it”.
But if this kind of passively-aggressive discussion is what people enjoy these days, I can tag along.

Oh, the “It’s not realistic” argument again?

So please tell me how warrior banners are realistic. Called in from the sky, they give you specific boons. Or how realistic the usage of greatswords are in this game. The Ranger can block arrows with his greatsword, the Warrior can whirl around like a madman or sprint like there is no tomorrow, the Guardian can pull people in.

Or tell me how realistic Eles, Necros, Mesmers or the Thief’s stealth is.

It’s not about realism, it’s about gameplay mechanic. Throwable traps offer a varied mechanic, such as reaching places you can’t go to or cutting people’s way of by throwing traps in front of them. The usual traps can only be layed down and you have to somehow manage to bait the enemy into it.

So the only playstyle left, that is not completely nerfed after this patch, is playing defensive in PvP. Playing offensive in WvW, defensive in WvW or offensive in PvP wont be possible anymore. Simply as that.

Correct me if I’m wrong. I wasn’t the one who came here with “history” on his proud hands. I was the one who said that traps with their current 0,5s arming time better fit the definition of a trap.

I also said that if traps are supposed to feel like traps – they can maintain their range – but would have to get a nerf in arming time. And we don’t want that, do we? The same QQ of “not fair – I can’t use them as granades anymore” would flood the forums but that would hit melee point-defending uses as well. Of course, synergy with runes would get better.

And I haven’t even said one time that the game-play change was in place. If you had the will to read through other topics, you’d see that I disagree with erasing a game-mechanic.
But I’ll still defend my statement that however much the traps were changed – they finally feel more like traps. It was a nerf – I agree on that – I’m not saying you guyz are wrong – I’m just saying that you haven’t tested a single #!&@ outside of your “ranged stealth AoE bombs” bubbles and you keep presenting how useless they are in ranged combat. Yes! Of course they are. Because they were changed drastically.

But you know just as much as I do that sPvP is all about defending points (and here the use makes sense, right?). And I do see the potential in them because I am not chained by history and the only thing that goes through my mind is being able to adapt. Not crying over something that I lost for whichever reason.

If they won’t have a single use anywhere in any game mode with any trait and weapon builds including Path of Scars for forced activation or what not (I still have no idea what I’m going to test, but there will be a lot) – then I will agree that their changes are stupid, Anet has no idea about how their game works and patch changes were a giant disappointment.
But if there are viable or meta builds that we still haven’t tested (it took years to discover some of today’s meta) and the only thing you guyz do is keep bit**ing about your precious loss of invisible bomber than there’s not much else to say. If you want to complain about loss of former game-style – complain about that, not about something that none of us have an idea about, yet. You only found out that Traps are not grenades anymore.

All I hear you saying is that “It doesn’t fit the theme of traps”, which is virtually the same thing as “It’s not realistic”. Traps do trap people. They trap them no matter if they were thrown or layed down. The fact that we used to be able to throw them shows that ANet hasn’t a problem either with not hitting your definition of the “trap theme”.

Wuselknusel.4082:

All I hear you saying is that “It doesn’t fit the theme of traps”, which is virtually the same thing as “It’s not realistic”. Traps do trap people. They trap them no matter if they were thrown or layed down. The fact that we used to be able to throw them shows that ANet hasn’t a problem either with not hitting your definition of the “trap theme”.

It shows that they didn’t have a problem with that and now they probably do.
Just as I say the traps are better defined with current mechanics – all you do is keep repeating that you want your grenades back.
We are still at an even ground. The only difference is that I’m willing to test Anet’s changes and you keep complaining.

All I hear you saying to justfiy a nerf is that after the nerf it will fit the theme of traps better.

But ok, if that’s your opinion. Now ANet, I want you to remove targeting an enemy. Right now you just have to target an enemy and your shots will hit if you are in range and have LoS. A longbow is no lock-on device, right? It would clearly fit the theme of the longbow better if we just couldn’t target anyone. We should also be able to hurt our teammates. Because what for a weapon does only hit your foes?

We should also nerf the greatsword, it is simply unrealistic that you can block projectiles or swoop ten meters in one direction, while also evading every attack comming at us. Totally unrealistic.

Furthermore, we should nerf the axe too. It is completely unrealistic that we have so many axes we can throw, let alone that they ricochet between foes.

I could keep going for nearly everything this game is about. And the moral is: Just because you think it doesn’t fit the theme, does not mean it should be nerfed so that it fits.

• Higher DPS on traps without traits then before update, roughly same or slightly lover after the changes
• Bonus CC and access to longer cripple duration
• Bonus direct damage to Ice Trap and buffed duration noticeably
• 1 trait needed instead of 3
• 0,5s arming time
• Buffed sustain and condition cleanse thanks to Healing Spring convert.

The only real but definitely more severe nerf:
- Are no longer ranged.

But one thing that came into my mind… I think there was a statement saying “enemies are not so stupid to stay inside traps and will walk out”
… Don’t you think that new spike trap addressed the issue with much higher precision and effectiveness than previous Range? You could throw it at them but they would just walk out. Now if they walk into them they’ll have to blow their stun-breaker or suffer twice as much.

You are basically too skeptical to have the right to claim that your opinion has more facts to support the statement.
I still think that while people waste their time complaining how things are impossible – others may as well be already doing them.

And I’m positive that my summary shows that they have the potential. Your complaint shows nothing but something that we all noticed a long time ago. A lost mechanic hand in hand with game-style.

No, I don’t think it adresses the issue. The Ranger traps had the advantage that most of them are on a fairly short cooldown, so you can use them multiple times during a fight. An enemy could roll out of them, but the most damage was front-loaded (which now get’s evened out) and we had a trait that applied snare on the enemy when he steps onto a trap. Ofcourse, traps were hard to land, they are no grenades which you can spam to win, you have to be precise. But you were be able to predict the enemies movement and able to react appropriately, by throwing traps in front of them. Even if you don’t want to throw your traps, you could throw them exactly at your feet, which has the same effect as just laying them down, but being able to throw them broadened the situations you could use them. An enemy is running away from you and you just can’t quite catch up? Throw a trap. An enemy is on higher terrain and you can’t get up there easily? Throw a trap. You want to quickly mine a larger area? Throw your traps. You are using trapper runes and want to get away? Throw traps sideways to get the stealth, then run over your traps so that if you become visible again, the enemy has to run past your traps first.

The new traps are stronger, yes. But they are also much harder to hit. They are harder to hit to such an extent, that you can’t afford to use more than one offensive traps, because the viability of traps is too limited. Traited survival skills are powerful in a multitude of situations, both offensively and defensively. A traited trap after the patch will only be vialbe in a few situations, which a much smaller scope.

A trap could be the most powerful thing in this game; if noone is stepping on it, it will be useless. Throwing traps makes it much more likely that your traps get activated, as opposed to laying them down.

Yes, I agree on most of these points.
But we still haven’t tested those smaller-scoped windows and environments. With the new Stronghold that has that number of narrow paths and gates – traps might get a viable place even with the nerf they got.

Because regardless of being nerfed – they were also buffed. And if they have at least any placement in the game we still have to see. I don’t know… Kiting might become much easier (for example). Forcing enemies to pass a deadly entrance may be important for objectives…

Again – yes – I agree that traps lost their former purpose, but they might gain another that might as well be worth it. Because I don’t remember any ranger in sPvP higher ranks playing Trapper. At all.
If we get at least a very situational purpose of traps – I’d be fine with it. We got plenty of other options for WvW.

Spike Trap has a huge potential of setting up combos for several builds even without the trap trait. Ice Trap might become a defensive option for melee builds for the Ice Field and disruption that naturally is a form of sustain.
I have no idea yet. But it shouts out for a potential. In PvP on-point battle – there’s no way that the trap would hold untriggered for longer than a second. It’s different in 1v1, but this game isn’t about 1v1 anyways.

EDIT: Don’t forget that now – traps were used as conditions that you didn’t provide with weapons. After the change – they would add to the fire by stacking with all the conditions you can provide. That is a buff, too.

But the point I keep on about is that removing throwing traps will not result in a change of how traps will be used. Even throwable traps could be used exactly as if they were just layed down. This change is a nerf to traps and I can’t see why they have to be nerfed.
Just compare the Ranger traps with the Dragonhunter traps. Our traps are really weak compared to the ones the DH got. We should keep an edge over the DH, by being able to throw them. Also, if we compare our changes to the treatment the Engineer got, I can’t understand why they nerf traps.

I’m not saying traps will be useless, they are not as broken as shouts. But their use will be limited.