Guild Wars 2

So, it has been discussed before, but as I see it, Traps just lost a lot of utility, the ability to be thrown. Since taking them means you sacrifice utility slots, I think they would be far better as an elite kit. That way, you still have access to three utility skills but sacrifice your elite for traps. Lets face it, the only elite used with traps was entangle and the traps will cover that CC imo. I think a kit fits thematically also.

There would need to be an additional trap created to cover the 5th slot, make that 5th trap an elite trap that is a smoke (Smoke Trap) field with pulsing 1s daze and blindness on it. Either that or an immob to make up for the loss of Entangle. Give it a longer CD and make it interact with the elite skill use on Runes.

I think traps would be in a great place if that change was made as it would open up a lot more utility/viability for trappers. Thoughts?

Been saying this for a long time now, Guess what I got? “No that is a bad idea, ranger is not an engie”

Now traps are useless.

Yeah, I remember posting with you about it ages ago. With the changes to traps, they really need to be combined so we can get some more utility. WvW trapper is pretty much dead because you cannot throw the traps. PvP is just camping nodes. Either way, a kit makes a lot of sense.

Thematically, you would definitely have a kit with tools for making traps when you went into the wilderness so if they are changing traps to fit thematically, then they should do it all the way.

Make the kit Elite and have no CD, while each individual trap has a CD, same as Engi kits. This way, we can also take survival skills and WK, since EB is terrible.

And again a thread to merge utility skills together to a kit? Getting kits has its price, if you really want them be prepared to get your weapon skills nerfed really hard and get rid of your ability to swap weapons.

How is it an argument for a kit that traps are not longer able to be thrown? If you are troubling with them, they maybe should get buffed. It already happened to spike trap, which is knocking your enemy down now.

Yea, the kit being elite is a good trade off. One kit is hardly a reason to lose the ability to swap weapons, if we had 5 kits like engineers do (so 30 skills total) then it is obvious they already have enough skills to do everything. But Ranger getting a kit for traps only and it is elite? Should be fine.

They changed traps to not be able to be thrown because they claimed it does not fit thematically, the mechanics are wrong for the skill type. Well, I am saying that thematically it makes perfect sense for traps to have a kit because you need tools and materials to make traps, so you would keep those in your kit.

Spike Trap should have always had a KD like it does in GW1.

Most Rangers agree Traps need some improvement.
Making them a kit kinda sound weird though, even if its just in terms of mechanics.

I’ll just throw a bunch of suggestions because I’m tired of how rangers are ‘reworked’ and just in need of sleep overall.

What if…

…Traited Traps could transfer a condition from player to a foe? That would add some interesting utility. Especially since rangers HAVE TO INVEST in a SINGLE trait line for condi management. One condition per trigger per trap.

…The trap trait would add a specific condition to traps (and boon to healing spring), not just ‘cripple’ to all of them?

• Frost >> Vuln or Weakness (or heck, slow)
• Fire >> Blind
• Viper’s >> Torment
• Spike >> Immob
• Healing Spring >> Vigor (remember the old Vigorous Renewal trait) or Resistance

…The trap’s CD would get reduced by a % if said trap is triggered while the CD is in effect? Or maybe it could be a flat amount in seconds. kitten Spike Trap, what the f-hawk

Traps and Spirits. Man I miss them.

That second suggesting of traps adding another condition when traited was suggested a couple of times. Good all around and would fit on Trapper’s Expertise with the cripple.

The problems with Traps are;

1. Offer no utility other than damage.
2. Sacrifice utility slot to take them, so you have no stun breaker etc.
3. Are placed directly at your feet, so can realistically only be used defensively.
4. You have to take EB for condition removal.
5. Telegraphed now because they are appearing at your feet and have an arming time.

How can you fix almost all these issues?
Make an Elite Trap Kit, change Trappers Expertise to remove a condition whenever you use place a trap. Done.

Totally viable trap build because you can then grab the trap kit whenever you make a condition build. It will work with anything that has condi damage. You can still take signets or spirits or survival skills for utility and stun break etc. Mechanic wise, it would be no different to an Engineer kit, each trap would have its own CD, the trap itself would have none. Keybind 0 to open the kit, lay traps, Keybind 0 to close it and go back to weapon skills. Easy.

I don’t need a kit. Just make traps ground-targetable by default. That’s it.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Make an Elite Trap Kit, change Trappers Expertise to remove a condition whenever you use place a trap.

That part is so imbalanced…

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

I don’t need a kit. Just make traps ground-targetable by default. That’s it.

Unfortunately, ANet has decided they need to be thematically correct. In which case, you cannot throw a trap, you can throw grenades and mines, but not traps.

Next best suggestion?

Problem with making them a kit is then it’d get a bit too powerful at that point.

They should just rework the CDs and tweak the numbers and add something with player conditions (condition transfer to foe on trap trigger) and I’d be happy. Because they do feel lackluster and unbalanced.

They could rework the damage values, make them condi bombs:
Huge condi burst at trigger and then a lasting damaging AoE: In my head traps are like ‘holy crap I gotta quickly move from here’ type of things

Vipers >> 3 stacks of poison for 2.5s on trigger + 1 poison (and/or torment) for 3s per pulse (every 1.5s for 4s)

Flame >> 3 stacks of burning for 2.5s on trigger + 1 burning for 3s per pulse (every 1.5s for 4s)

Frost >> 5 stacks of vuln on trigger for 8s and 3s chill + chill for 2s every pulse (every 1.5s for 4s) or 4s Chill on trigger + chill and weak or vuln pulse

Spike >> 5 stacks of bleed for 4s on trigger + 2 bleeds for 2s per pulse (every 1.5s for 4s)

Traps become ‘condition bombs’: High Stacks on Trigger with Low Duration, but they also pulse Longer Lasting conditions on lower stacks. So it hurts a lot if you simply trigger it and dodge away, and hurts a lot more if you can’t escape.

Wondrouswall.7169:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Make an Elite Trap Kit, change Trappers Expertise to remove a condition whenever you use place a trap.

That part is so imbalanced…

Any suggestions? I actually don’t see how it is any better than any of the meta pvp builds.

ProtoMarcus.7649:

Problem with making them a kit is then it’d get a bit too powerful at that point.

They should just rework the CDs and tweak the numbers and add something with player conditions (condition transfer to foe on trap trigger) and I’d be happy. Because they do feel lackluster and unbalanced.

You are still left with the fact that they offer no utility and you have to make big sacrifices to take them. Cleansing condis could happen, transferring them is far too powerful.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Any suggestions? I actually don’t see how it is any better than any of the meta pvp builds.

Just no condition removal at all with Trapper’s Expertise. Traps don’t provide condition cleanse outside of Healing Spring and that’s fine. If you need to tag extra condition cleanses on other things, look at improving EB or IB.

Only thing possible that could add a utility to traps is a stun break, but for that to work, traps would then need a manual detonation prompt to prevent it from being cumbersome. Detonation has it’s own set of issues with people since it will not force a CD until detonated or triggered, thus, removing the ability to chain the same trap.

Sorry, mate. I can offer no better suggestion other than to not add a condition cleanse to TE and only to look at other traits that need improvement to strengthen some weaknesses with choosing to slot certain utilities on builds.

We would actually just need a trap that provides survivability like a dust trap with many blinds (on top of dmg).

Viper’s Nest is better now but they just don’t do enough.

Yeah. At the moment, Dust Trap and Smoke Trap are 2 GW1 Traps that didn’t make it over. Was hoping their properties would be added in by traiting with Trapper’s Expertise, but instead we got cripple, which isn’t bad but it’s… something.

Dojo.1867:

We would actually just need a trap that provides survivability like a dust trap with many blinds (on top of dmg).

Viper’s Nest is better now but they just don’t do enough.

I suggested the smoke trap in the OP.

As for the condition cleanse… I will accept that cleansing could possibly be a bit over the top. They just need something else, other than purely being a trap. Some utility as well, Resistance on laying a trap? That could be cool.

Resistance on laying or when you stand on a trap you have like 50% damage reduction AGAINST that condition;
Standing on Viper’s nest poison is 50% less effective on you etc etc

ProtoMarcus.7649:

Resistance on laying or when you stand on a trap you have like 50% damage reduction AGAINST that condition;
Standing on Viper’s nest poison is 50% less effective on you etc etc

That would be pretty hard to code, gotta think about that too. We could come up with some amazing mechanics, but whether or not they are able to or willing to code them is a different matter.

If Anet can code Symbolic Avenger, they can code a damage reduction while standing on a trap.

Wondrouswall.7169:

If Anet can code Symbolic Avenger, they can code a damage reduction while standing on a trap.

Well, Symbolic Avenger looks to see if the target is in the symbol (which it already knows because it is dealing damage), then adds the damage modifier.

The trap one would have to look if you are inside a trap, which trap it is, then add the damage reduction to the condition type for that particular trap. Then you have to make it work for every trap at the same time. Its quite a bit more code.

I’d just prefer a short Resistance on laying the trap tbh. Easy to code and effective.

It could be overall condi damage reduction and/or duration, like the ‘Purging Flame’ effect (Condition duration is reduced by 33%.)

15% condi dmg reduced and 20% condi duration reduced

You’ll really want to stand on your traps

Yeah, if Anet went with that idea, it would have to be an overall effect across all traps. For balancing issues, they would not allow each trap to provide a different reduction due to possible stacking of effects, making that obscene for point control scenarios.

Then again, having a reduction property in general was something (imo) Trapper’s Defense should have been. But, alas, that trait is gone – even though it could have now been useful since Spike Trap applies Knockdown. =/

Condition duration would be cool, global -X% to all incoming conditions. How about while you have two or more traps on CD though, so you are not immobile on the trap?

Still, I think an elite trap kit by itself would just be the answer to everything, because you can just take WK and survival skills then too and everything is good.

Anet probably wouldn’t let the effect stack anyway. Possibly putting a restriction and tooltip description that says “does not stack.” Or if they did allow stacking, it would be something along the lines of some current traits, like “-5% condition duration for each trap active.”

Also, a trap kit could be doable, but Anet likes to play… interestingly (to say the least). If Rangers got one, expect Thieves and Dragon Hunters to receive one as well, thematically fitting or not.

Wondrouswall.7169:

Then again, having a reduction property in general was something (imo) Trapper’s Defense should have been. But, alas, that trait is gone – even though it could have now been useful since Spike Trap applies Knockdown. =/

The irony was not lost on me… Should still be a part of allies aid imo, remove the +10% speed and add the trap back.

The patch has been a buff to traps not a nerf. It’s our own perception that views it as a nerf. Think of the change from range to melee with a damage buff. To suggest that traps can only be used defensively is like saying melee weapons can only be used defensively.

Yes traps were given a .5 arming time but you don’t even see the difference. it’s half a key stroke (like releasing the button to place the trap without having to watch the throw animation).

It’s a change but its a change that we ranger can adapt to. Some of you maybe struggling more with trap builds you have used in the past. This is most likely due the lost of toughness not the changes to the traps.

Adapt your thinking from ranged traps to melee (yes not really melee) from prey to predator, from defender to aggressor and you will find condition to really be op right now. The success you had before is nothing compare to what you can achieve now.

They need to be instant drop.

The drop speed is faster now than if you had the range trait (not including the actually throw animation). Alots of people are resistant to change, but as Ranger we must adapt or die.

Okay I must say… I finally toyed around a LOT in PvP with traps and they are pretty solid. Little comments:
Spike Trap’s kitten CD is still a bit too high, lowering it to 40s traitable to 32s would be awesome

Healing Spring
Don’t make it triggerable anytime someone steps on it with 100%, add in a 90% health criteria or something. Also, don’t make the burst heal proc when you Setup the trap, make the burst happen when you trigger it. Also, pet doesn’t get healed.

Maybe instead of regen, its healing per pulse, with 10 pulses at 320 health heach?

Also its not a Knockdown on Spike trap, its a LAUNCH (and it looks beautiful ahaha)

Serraphin Storm.2369:

The patch has been a buff to traps not a nerf. It’s our own perception that views it as a nerf. Think of the change from range to melee with a damage buff. To suggest that traps can only be used defensively is like saying melee weapons can only be used defensively…

The effects of traps were buffed, yes, but the ability to make them connect is vastly degraded. Your comparison only makes sense if you are also standing still and cannot move. In which case, range is vastly superior. If the trap must be placed at your feet, you need to either be standing still on it, or sticking close to someone, in which case, they are trying to move away from you and the trap. Hence why they can only be used effectively if used defensively, since you place them on a spot where someone will come to you. I’m assuming you are playing against someone with half a brain.

ProtoMarcus.7649:

Also its not a Knockdown on Spike trap, its a LAUNCH (and it looks beautiful ahaha)

A Launch? So, you step in the trap and the trap throws you out of itself? That’s pretty counter-intuitive.

Yes sometimes you need to be the aggressor, but traps are a utility you have two weapon sets. With beastly ward and other traits , skills and effects at our disposal, being in the right position to use your traps shouldn’t be an issue.

If they are melee they will come to us like thieves and warriors. If they are range you will have to do some work or you can run and they will pursue you.

The trap Kd launch is up not out, it does throw you out of the trap.

The only real problem I have with traps is the sheer amount of things you give up in order to get them so far as support/defense is concerned.
This really bothers me because you cannot throw traps, they must be placed & they have an arming time.

Perhaps they could move the trap trait up to a grand master but have it also give each trap a beneficial effect either on use or when triggered. (similar to the turret trait for engineers)

(Same can be said of dragon hunter traps on guardian elite spec)

The biggest issue I have with traps is that the damage isn’t worth the defense trade off. Even with the knockdown on spike and the condi change overall it simply isn’t worth the investment because it only takes a couple of skills to completely negate all the damage. Correct me if I’m wrong but traps also still scale poorly with power which makes their burst even more pathetic. Also that spike trap CD nerf was not necessary.