Guild Wars 2

TL;DR
Yes, Rangers need smarter pets, but what happens to the LOL balance?

We all want pets that don’t have their claws up their butts and can actually hit what we tell them to hit. ANet has said that if they tweak pet AI, it would bork mob AI. It would also boost Necro minion AI.( Assuming Necro pets use the same AI as our pets/mobs)

But reading all the posts in various sub forums, especially about how they are “trying to fix” the zerker meta, they won’t be tweaking AI anytime soon. IF they do happen to fix AI, think of all the whining that will be heard saying Ranger/Necromancer pets and general MOBs are so hard to fight against.

They fix AI, Pet classes become the new meta.

So, what happens when they do make our pets smarter? Do they have to fix the mobs so they are actually not wtfpwnmobile smashing in players faces because Rangers want smarter pets? Will Rangers reroll to Necro so we can all run 10 man MM zergs and steamroll other zergs with superior pet AI? (<<< Oh the horror!!!)

I dont see any problem here, it’s this “everyone is a noob, we cant make the game more difficulty” thing, that ruins a lot of todays games.

Improving the AI would make PvE more challanging and more fun.

The pets damage on the other hand must be lowerd, because if they hit, they hit like a truck.

Why I dont understand is, why cant ANET make an envolving AI, lvl 1-30 like it is today, at lvl 30-60 they are smarter and at lvl 60-80, they use combo fields, dodge, heal, …..

And I dont think, they only have one AI for all enemies and Pets, bandits for example are smarter, they retreat and so on.

If they do improve the AI to include a challenge to the players, that would indeed affect the current ’zerker meta. But then you have the ’zerkers crying about the game being too hard.

As far as the leveling pet AI, would you have to level all pets to get that? I read a post yesterday(can’t remember who, maybe you) that wanted the same. If you have to level each pet like that, imo it would be a pita.

Bandits, moas and other mobs retreat, other mobs use different skills like cripple and immobilize. But it’s pretty much the same AI, just different skills and at what % of hp they retreat.

It seems pretty clear to me that for the Rangers to get.. what word to use.. good pets. They have to be separated from the existing mobs out in the world.

Then again, that would mean they have to code a truckload of new pets..

Or, do they?

Now, I’m no programmer, but surely there are other, better AIs to draw from in the game? Which will still fulfill the, (which seems to me), the #1 criteria from ANet; pets telegraphing their attacks so they can be dodged. I have no problem with that – thats just fair.

Making us use a snatched dog/bird/pig/what-have-you from out in the world – that has serious issues with actually hitting its target, not to mention pathing etc etc
Is not fair.

I actually thought about starting a similar thread some time ago. How about we get constructive – what other AIs are there out there that can be used? Just slap a dog skin, (or your pet of choice), on that instead – could that be something?

Mortec.5684:

It seems pretty clear to me that for the Rangers to get.. what word to use.. good pets. They have to be separated from the existing mobs out in the world.

Then again, that would mean they have to code a truckload of new pets..

Or, do they?

Now, I’m no programmer, but surely there are other, better AIs to draw from in the game? Which will still fulfill the, (which seems to me), the #1 criteria from ANet; pets telegraphing their attacks so they can be dodged. I have no problem with that – thats just fair.

Making us use a snatched dog/bird/pig/what-have-you from out in the world – that has serious issues with actually hitting its target, not to mention pathing etc etc
Is not fair.

I actually thought about starting a similar thread some time ago. How about we get constructive – what other AIs are there out there that can be used? Just slap a dog skin, (or your pet of choice), on that instead – could that be something?

I’m pretty sure that is what we already have in pets minus the f2 skill. Each of their basic attacks mimic some mobs attacks and defenses. I.e. Devourers, they evade and retreat like bandits. But pets also seem to have mixed skills from different mobs.

As far as pets hitting moving targets, we have chills and cripples easily at our disposal. Mobs it’s ok, players will usually try very hard to clear these conditions. I think a nice chill or cripple come in handy with ranged pets vs. players.

It wasnt me, that postet that, but I think you get me wrong there, i mean envolving AI of everthing, not only pets. Every monster you cross, will at some point cry for help, if he gets to much damage and other monsters of this type will come and help him out.

Btw. Its not only the AI, that prevents our pets from hitting, the Moa elite of the mesmer makes our pets stronger, becuse his #1 skills is a leap or can be castet while running (im not sure here). But if your pet is moad, it will hit like 80% of his hits, while as normal pet its only 20% to a moving target.

There are plenty of mobs in game that seem to have no problem hitting players who are moving around constantly. I don’t see why they can’t have our pets mimic those mobs AI.

Even if that were fixed (which shouldn’t be that difficult based on we already see it in the game), the F2 is a whole other demon. It rarely works properly, to the point it mine as well be completely removed.

I currently find the best use of the pet is one that sits passively by my side and buffs me with 5 stacks of might. Now is this Anet’s intention for pets?

whyme.3281:

It wasnt me, that postet that, but I think you get me wrong there, i mean envolving AI of everthing, not only pets. Every monster you cross, will at some point cry for help, if he gets to much damage and other monsters of this type will come and help him out.

Btw. Its not only the AI, that prevents our pets from hitting, the Moa elite of the mesmer makes our pets stronger, becuse his #1 skills is a leap or can be castet while running (im not sure here). But if your pet is moad, it will hit like 80% of his hits, while as normal pet its only 20% to a moving target.

(enemy)Wolves will use a skill that already calls for help if the fight goes on long enough, but otherwise their AI is very basic. They deal roughly the same damage as our pet wolves (unbuffed), but attack half as fast, and aside from their one skill that calls for help, they only have an auttoattack. All Wolves can hit a moving target because their auttoattack has a very short cast time, provided they can catch up because like all other NPC mobs, they have to stop moving for a short time to attack.

That’s just one family of pets/enemies as an example. It would be awesome if my Wolves could move and attack at the same time, thats a big first step to improving pets.

And on the monster AI side, It would be freaking awesome if for example, we wandered in a cave, and we ran into a pack of wolves that not only summons help when their health gets low enough, but the big bad Veteran Alpha wolf had an Arctic Howl that created an Ice Field, then all the other wolves would automatically know to use their leap attacks to jump at me through the field, gaining Frost Aura in the process, which reduces the damage they take, and chills me when I attack them. oh, and they don’t have to stop to use their attack animations anymore. Players would definitely have to think twice about running in there with a full glass cannon build trying to LOL-facestomp the enemies inside with no real plan or strategy.

…..

…..I’m not holding my Breath though, Anet is improving the AI very slowly but surely, but, I’m not expecting them to improve the intelligence of enemies that far, atleast anytime soon (I wish they would, like, starting next living world release!)

Just by increasing the attack and movement speed of pets it would be a lot better, their active F2 spells could also easily be optimised to be more responsive on top of the cast times being reduced. Or like Chrispy.5641 said in the post above, make pets just be able to attack while moving

None of this should affect mob AI and should make Ranger pets a lot more effective and fun to use. I don’t have an answer for pet viability for zerg fights though, maybe general pet toughness could scale in a lesser but similar way as Veterans and Champions scale with number of players around?

whyme.3281:

I dont see any problem here, it’s this “everyone is a noob, we cant make the game more difficulty” thing, that ruins a lot of todays games.

Improving the AI would make PvE more challanging and more fun.

The pets damage on the other hand must be lowerd, because if they hit, they hit like a truck.

Why I dont understand is, why cant ANET make an envolving AI, lvl 1-30 like it is today, at lvl 30-60 they are smarter and at lvl 60-80, they use combo fields, dodge, heal, …..

And I dont think, they only have one AI for all enemies and Pets, bandits for example are smarter, they retreat and so on.

Having craptastic AI from a game design standpoint on purpose is the most horrendous idea I’ve ever heard. When I leveled my ranger in another certain game, my pet worked from level one to max, and I genuinely enjoyed having a pet. In GW2, the words “dead” and “useless” come to mind when I think about Ranger pets.

If ANet had brains when they developed the game, they wouldn’t have built pets around the same AI as regular world mobs. Terrible game design, and a terrible excuse on their end.

The fixes are simple; give pets AoE resistance, better responsiveness, and the ability to hit moving targets. Otherwise, this class will continue to be a joke in PvE.

I say we go on strike and refuse to play ranger until they let us permanently stow the pet and compensate the ranger with buffs since the pet was like 30% of our dps although u never got that anyways cus the pet never hits anybody.

If they focused on making smarter mobs, like Amiron was saying, that would have a trickle down effect to our pets, since they’re tied to mob AI. More challenging and diverse PVE content plus smarter more reliable pets. Two birds one stone.

Chuck Zitto.2367:

I say we go on strike and refuse to play ranger until they let us permanently stow the pet and compensate the ranger with buffs since the pet was like 30% of our dps although u never got that anyways cus the pet never hits anybody.

The real Chuck Zitto would say lets go kick some ANet kitten until they make Rangers as OP as warriors. But then again, Chuck Zitto would also never be caught dead playing an MMO, unless he got soft in his old age and moved in with his mom. /sarcasm

I don’t think a Ranger strike would accomplish much TBH. It would probably just make ANet say “Hey, no one is playing Ranger anymore, we can finally get rid of it and replace it with our version of an OP Heavy mage that everyone will play. It’ll be the new meta. Then we can introduce the 3 year grind for GOD gears. Muahahahaha!!!!!11!!!!!11!!1”

Jaysin X.6740:

If they focused on making smarter mobs, like Amiron was saying, that would have a trickle down effect to our pets, since they’re tied to mob AI. More challenging and diverse PVE content plus smarter more reliable pets. Two birds one stone.

Lets face it, ANet’s version of smarter mob AI seems to be giving them more HP and more fancy gimmicks like shooting 400 barrels down their throats to make them vulnerable.

wongdong.9162:

They fix AI, Pet classes become the new meta.

I am SO WILLING to take that chance.

Amongst other things it’d be easier to tone doe hir stats once their AI is in hand, assuming its even a real problem (I’m not convinced it is). And even if it somehow produced a temporary inversion of the meta rankings between profession, its not the worst thing for classes laboring under the penalty of pet AI to have their day in the sun, even if only briefly.

Pets have to be able to hit their target period. There is no reason why this should not have been fixed by now. If they are not suppose to hit the target then they should remove them from the game.

For control as other have mentioned before something similar.

We need 3 buttons (f1)(f3)(f4).

f1 – Pet follow – Pet will stick to master within 5 ft and attack from that range only.
Use – For movement of ranged pets and for use with a melee heavy build

f3 – Pet Stay – Pet will stay on the target area and attack without movement.
Use – For range pet placement.

f4 – Pet dodge – Used to mitigate damage on pet when dodge is needed in encounters.
This can be an animated dodge or just something that reduces or complete counters all damage for a short time period.

Something akin to this would do a lot for the pet side of things without making the class much harder to play.

Gbok.1039:

Pets have to be able to hit their target period. There is no reason why this should not have been fixed by now. If they are not suppose to hit the target then they should remove them from the game.

For control as other have mentioned before something similar.

We need 3 buttons (f1)(f3)(f4).

f1 – Pet follow – Pet will stick to master within 5 ft and attack from that range only.
Use – For movement of ranged pets and for use with a melee heavy build

f3 – Pet Stay – Pet will stay on the target area and attack without movement.
Use – For range pet placement.

f4 – Pet dodge – Used to mitigate damage on pet when dodge is needed in encounters.
This can be an animated dodge or just something that reduces or complete counters all damage for a short time period.

Something akin to this would do a lot for the pet side of things without making the class much harder to play.

@Gbok
In the case of your f3, how is that different from “Guard”?
Your f1 is achievable by the current f3 then closing to melee range and then f1 or f2. Range pets, well, they range.
Your f4 for dodge, pets should dodge automatically like bandits and it would replace the swap function. I like the swap.

Stowing the pet until it’s recalled would help more than anything else. I feel that our current pet controls are just about right with the exception of the stow. As for hitting their target, melees are the pets that have trouble in that department. I think an attack and movement speed would help there, or, being able to attack and move like players.

A ‘Stay’ or a ‘Go here’ command as a means of positioning engages 3D space in a meaningful way, whereas ‘Guard’ as a means of positioning results in your pet’s movement being limited to a straight line between yourself and the target.

It’s like; this game’s ‘Attack/Guard’ system is a yo-yo, and other games’ ‘Attack/Guard/Go here’ systems are a remote controlled car.

wongdong.9162:

TL;DR
Yes, Rangers need smarter pets, but what happens to the LOL balance?

We all want pets that don’t have their claws up their butts and can actually hit what we tell them to hit. ANet has said that if they tweak pet AI, it would bork mob AI. It would also boost Necro minion AI.( Assuming Necro pets use the same AI as our pets/mobs)

But reading all the posts in various sub forums, especially about how they are “trying to fix” the zerker meta, they won’t be tweaking AI anytime soon. IF they do happen to fix AI, think of all the whining that will be heard saying Ranger/Necromancer pets and general MOBs are so hard to fight against.

They fix AI, Pet classes become the new meta.

So, what happens when they do make our pets smarter? Do they have to fix the mobs so they are actually not wtfpwnmobile smashing in players faces because Rangers want smarter pets? Will Rangers reroll to Necro so we can all run 10 man MM zergs and steamroll other zergs with superior pet AI? (<<< Oh the horror!!!)

Your whole post goes by the assumption that pets can only be either rubbish or overpowered. What happens if they fix the pet AI and balance it well? We get harder dungeons, better wvw guards, more complex mechanics with AI able to do more, and the ranger finally gets dragged up to par with the other classes.

Debate the worst outcomes all you like but don’t think they’re the only ones possible here.

Functional pets would make us the meta? Ha, that’s rich. We are consistently balanced under the assumption that our pet has 100% up time and flawless functionality.

Making the pet work would give us the power/utility anet only thinks we have and would in no way make us “OP” or “the new meta”

Am I the only one using F1 on my Ranger or what?

While I understand that sarcasm doesn’t translate well in text, common sense says that some of the language in the op is just that.