Guild Wars 2

Troll Unguent should be a Survival skill. Hear me out! It makes perfect sense!

The formal definition of Unguent:
??NG?w?nt/
noun
a soft greasy or viscous substance used as an ointment or for lubrication.

Now, first off… Tell me that doesnt sound like something you’d find in a survival pack or scrounge up for survival? Secondly, it fits the idea that it’s a more selfish heals compared to the healing spring which can be blasted and heals conditions and life over time for several people.

Lastly, it wouldn’t be OP at all. I play Survival Ranger, and my biased opinion love this idea. Thanks for listening.

It would be OP, i can’t support that motion.

As a half-way measure totally unrelated to my stealth-trapper roaming, i propose that it be made a Trap skill.

Sounds kinky….

Though 20% CD reduction to trolls Ungent would just be riduculous, 50% upkeep on your heal skill. Plus removes 2 conditions and gives fury when fully traited. OP.
Though I’m sure our opponents would love the extra amount of lube we’d be using.

Edit: @Cafard – I was thinking the other day that healing spring could be made a trap, through a trait or something. (though sounds a tad OP)

Still would be a more active healing skill than Healing Signet and someone thought that was a good idea.

Also “Or it gets the hose again.”

Curring.9752:

Edit: @Cafard – I was thinking the other day that healing spring could be made a trap, through a trait or something. (though sounds a tad OP)

Fair enough, i’ll settle for HS as a trap. Ground targeted, reduced cooldown, increased area, increased duration, rune-proc stealth, HERE I COME!

You selfish, non-thematic Rangers can have spring as a trap heal. The Unguent only makes sense as a skill for survival using basic resource. As said, even on a 20 second cooldown it’d be a base 425 hps, just above Signet, but has a cast and cooldown to watch for! And it would have more synergy! Think about it! Currently, it has a base of 340 Hps! That’s less than HS and is more active and can be interrupted! And has no synergy! This is one step in the right direction for rangers! Good luck out there!

ronpierce.2760:

You selfish, non-thematic Rangers can have spring as a trap heal.

As a natural-born-RPer, I deeply resent the non-thematic accusation. There is nothing more natural than (Heal) Springing a Trap.

cafard.8953:

ronpierce.2760:

You selfish, non-thematic Rangers can have spring as a trap heal.

As a natural-born-RPer, I deeply resent the non-thematic accusation. There is nothing more natural than (Heal) Springing a Trap.

I was referring to when it was said Unguent be a trap. :P Spring makes sense as a trap decently enough!

Woo! Spring traps and Survival Unguents go!

ronpierce.2760:

Woo! Spring traps and Survival Unguents go!

It’s a deal.

Please take note and implement now, Anet. Thanks.

Healing Spring was a trap in GW1.

Troll Unguent would technically be a Survival Skill.

Heal as One would technically be a shout.

Traited, you could probably argue that Troll would be amazing (but admittedly too much with 50% uptime on healing, basically fury, and a Condi cleanse on that cooldown that is actually worthwhile, unlike Muddy Terrain).

Traited, Heal as One has good arguments for either side. Traited just for cooldown, it would be fine. Traited fully for shouts, and shout rangers would no longer even have to run guard, they would have basically perma-swiftness and regen with a hefty enough heal on such a low cooldown. However, it does have a long-ish cast time, and healing value would be similar to Engineers Healing Turret, if not a bit worse because of no cleansing, so there is an argument for it.

Healing Spring would most logically by the right skill to put into a family because even though it has strong utility, it has low healing value and requires some seriously thoughtful play to even make it worthwhile at is base cooldown. So at minimum, a cooldown reduction would really help, although I would say that it really should be more of a survival skill in this game based solely on traiting alone.

ronpierce.2760:

You selfish, non-thematic Rangers can have spring as a trap heal. The Unguent only makes sense as a skill for survival using basic resource. As said, even on a 20 second cooldown it’d be a base 425 hps, just above Signet, but has a cast and cooldown to watch for! And it would have more synergy! Think about it! Currently, it has a base of 340 Hps! That’s less than HS and is more active and can be interrupted! And has no synergy! This is one step in the right direction for rangers! Good luck out there!

Can’t argue with that logic, I’m sold on the idea.

I’m glad we’re starting to be forward thinking Rangers with this! Maybe all 3 can be placed into a category, but Heal as One might be best to stay as a neutral heal. I do think everyone needs at least one. But since it’s okay alone, I could see making it a shout too, it might get a little more play at the very least. (except I don’t think our shout skills are good enough to really necessitate a shout build over a survival build. However eith Soldier runes, shouts could function similarly with condi removal, don’t forget!)

With them having shown the ability to change skill types (Entangle/Guardian Elite) I think these would work well for having a type tied to them. I really don’t think it’d be “op”, since as I said, the skill already heals less than Healing Signet, has a cast time, and isnt constant and deserves being a ‘little’ higher due to the fact that it can’t be used necessarily as a clutch as most heals are.

Just saying! Migh be worth looking at!

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Troll_Unguent

Troll Unguent is Wilderness Survival in GW1.
There’s no reason it shouldn’t be in GW2.

People who’re worrying about TU being op, note that you need to spend 8 trait points to make it -CD AND grant fury/remove condition. Also do note that SotF is just the survival version of Ele’s cantrap, and it’s not even an OP spec to begin with.

Also in GW1 Healing Spring is a trap, so maybe – trap cd should work on healing spring as well.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Healing_Spring

Well mathematically, especially for the investment, it’s really not OP. It would heal (at base) break from being net less HP than healing signet, while it retains its proactive (preplanning) aspect and has a cast time/cooldown to watch for. I’d at least like them to consider it and try it rather than nothing at all.

I agree and would take a 20% cd increase to balance it out.

Dojo.1867:

I agree and would take a 20% cd increase to balance it out.

I considered asking CD moving to 28 or 30 base, but it could use a minor buff to break from even with HS to account for risk and downtime. Nothing major just a bit. Wasn’t sure how well received the idea would be though so I started small. O.o

I was going to add to the fact that we’re the only class without a healing skill bound to a specific utility category.

Then I remembered the abomination known as Water Spirit.

ronpierce.2760:

Dojo.1867:

I agree and would take a 20% cd increase to balance it out.

I considered asking CD moving to 28 or 30 base, but it could use a minor buff to break from even with HS to account for risk and downtime. Nothing major just a bit. Wasn’t sure how well received the idea would be though so I started small. O.o

I think condi removal with Survival of the Fittest is enough additional upside.

Dojo.1867:

ronpierce.2760:

Dojo.1867:

I agree and would take a 20% cd increase to balance it out.

I considered asking CD moving to 28 or 30 base, but it could use a minor buff to break from even with HS to account for risk and downtime. Nothing major just a bit. Wasn’t sure how well received the idea would be though so I started small. O.o

I think condi removal with Survival of the Fittest is enough additional upside.

Yeah. I’d consider a 28 second base, so non survival Rangers could still find it useful, and it wouldn’t be such a substantial buff overall. If that’s still too high, maybe 30 which would return a traited 25 second cd. I prefer 28 base thiugh.

ronpierce.2760:

Dojo.1867:

ronpierce.2760:

Dojo.1867:

I agree and would take a 20% cd increase to balance it out.

I considered asking CD moving to 28 or 30 base, but it could use a minor buff to break from even with HS to account for risk and downtime. Nothing major just a bit. Wasn’t sure how well received the idea would be though so I started small. O.o

I think condi removal with Survival of the Fittest is enough additional upside.

Yeah. I’d consider a 28 second base, so non survival Rangers could still find it useful, and it wouldn’t be such a substantial buff overall. If that’s still too high, maybe 30 which would return a traited 25 second cd. I prefer 28 base thiugh.

Then you just basically destroy all build diversity because you assume all rangers should take that -survival CD trait.

Also people ASSUME that all rangers should go for SotF, which again, is a none logical conclusion to balance out things. How come Guardian’s Elite skill has sufficient trait support through mediation, while no-one complain about it?

The logic of some people in the forum is so awkward.

Aomine.5012:

ronpierce.2760:

Dojo.1867:

ronpierce.2760:

Dojo.1867:

I agree and would take a 20% cd increase to balance it out.

I considered asking CD moving to 28 or 30 base, but it could use a minor buff to break from even with HS to account for risk and downtime. Nothing major just a bit. Wasn’t sure how well received the idea would be though so I started small. O.o

I think condi removal with Survival of the Fittest is enough additional upside.

Yeah. I’d consider a 28 second base, so non survival Rangers could still find it useful, and it wouldn’t be such a substantial buff overall. If that’s still too high, maybe 30 which would return a traited 25 second cd. I prefer 28 base thiugh.

Then you just basically destroy all build diversity because you assume all rangers should take that -survival CD trait.

The logic of some people in the forum is so awkward.

I’d argue it increases it if you put it at 28. A choice could be made to take the 20% survival cd trait and not take the condition removal of you don’t find it necessary. It’d make for a shorter CD than we currently have. SotF wouldnt be mandatory. Some builds already run TU and just lightning reflexes as a stun break. This would make the CD reduction a viable option as an adept.

That’s actually why I say 28 over 30, that way it’s still valuable and not a break even for those who don’t run SotF.

ronpierce.2760:

Aomine.5012:

ronpierce.2760:

Dojo.1867:

ronpierce.2760:

Dojo.1867:

I agree and would take a 20% cd increase to balance it out.

I considered asking CD moving to 28 or 30 base, but it could use a minor buff to break from even with HS to account for risk and downtime. Nothing major just a bit. Wasn’t sure how well received the idea would be though so I started small. O.o

I think condi removal with Survival of the Fittest is enough additional upside.

Yeah. I’d consider a 28 second base, so non survival Rangers could still find it useful, and it wouldn’t be such a substantial buff overall. If that’s still too high, maybe 30 which would return a traited 25 second cd. I prefer 28 base thiugh.

Then you just basically destroy all build diversity because you assume all rangers should take that -survival CD trait.

The logic of some people in the forum is so awkward.

I’d argue it increases it if you put it at 28. A choice could be made to take the 20% survival cd trait and not take the condition removal of you don’t find it necessary. It’d make for a shorter CD than we currently have. SotF wouldnt be mandatory. Some builds already run TU and just lightning reflexes as a stun break. This would make the CD reduction a viable option as an adept.

That’s actually why I say 28 over 30, that way it’s still valuable and not a break even for those who don’t run SotF.

Yeah, so from now on all rangers should waste 8 points on survival stuffs just to make a heal skill function properly..

SotF is not that great anyway because you sacrifices the whole bar to get the cleanse.

Logic?

I don’t think you read anything I said… The 20% reduction is only an Adept trait. For non"survival" builds that naturally want to take lightning reflex as a cc break and healing unguent as its heal, it actually would benefit them. The condition removal isn’t mandatory for the heal to be useful… It’s a perk for full survival builds that want to invest in it.

ronpierce.2760:

I don’t think you read anything I said… The 20% reduction is only an Adept trait. For non"survival" builds that naturally want to take lightning reflex as a cc break and healing unguent as its heal, it actually would benefit them. The condition removal isn’t mandatory for the heal to be useful… It’s a perk for full survival builds that want to invest in it.

Like I said, stop assuming everyone will use what you use.

People may not bring LR, and may not necessary always choose -cd survival as their adapt trait, and may not necessary bring entangle.

Stop breaking a healing skill because you assume everyone will use that synergy.

Aomine.5012:

ronpierce.2760:

I don’t think you read anything I said… The 20% reduction is only an Adept trait. For non"survival" builds that naturally want to take lightning reflex as a cc break and healing unguent as its heal, it actually would benefit them. The condition removal isn’t mandatory for the heal to be useful… It’s a perk for full survival builds that want to invest in it.

Like I said, stop assuming everyone will use what you use.

People may not bring LR, and may not necessary always choose -cd survival as their adapt trait, and may not necessary bring entangle.

Stop breaking a healing skill because you assume everyone will use that synergy.

Using your logic traits wouldn’t exist at all… It’s a very easy to grab trait to net a stronger heal. And without it, it would go from 8500/25sec to 8500/28 sec. That’s all that would happen. A single adept would allow it to be 8500/22.4 with the added benefit of lowering cooldowns for other utilities and one of the better elites. Hardly game breaking, but the synergy it adds to the class certainly outweighs the cost here. I’d say by far.

This will never happen because the skill is fine as it is.

The only healing skill that needs a slight buff is heal as one, because its boring and does nothing aside from burst heal.

I wouldn’t be opposed to healing spring being a trap skill however, considering its low healing power and the duration Nerf it received some years ago.

Ungent is one of the better heals in game as is and I agree that if it were to made a survival it’s base would need to be increased and 28 sounds like the best of both worlds.
Of course not everyone takes 6 into nature magic to get the cleans but those that do tend to be the survival condition and they’re already really potent as it is, the change to Ungent could be what tips the balance. That’s my opinion at least.

I was suprised we got a spirit heal and not a trap heal to be honest. Though if they changed Healing spring to a trap I’d like to see it function as follows;
Heals you for an amount when you throw the trap (Less than it currently does) but when the trap is triggered and you’re within the radius it heals you again (So overall it’d heal you for more if you’re within range than it currently does) and produce the field it currently does.

Heal as one needs to be a shout/beastmaster skill, giving some benefits to the player and more benefits to the pet. Heal as one has to be the most plain heal skill in the game only surpassed by the spirit heal.

Curring.9752:

Ungent is one of the better heals in game as is and I agree that if it were to made a survival it’s base would need to be increased and 28 sounds like the best of both worlds.
Of course not everyone takes 6 into nature magic to get the cleans but those that do tend to be the survival condition and they’re already really potent as it is, the change to Ungent could be what tips the balance. That’s my opinion at least.

I was suprised we got a spirit heal and not a trap heal to be honest. Though if they changed Healing spring to a trap I’d like to see it function as follows;
Heals you for an amount when you throw the trap (Less than it currently does) but when the trap is triggered and you’re within the radius it heals you again (So overall it’d heal you for more if you’re within range than it currently does) and produce the field it currently does.

Heal as one needs to be a shout/beastmaster skill, giving some benefits to the player and more benefits to the pet. Heal as one has to be the most plain heal skill in the game only surpassed by the spirit heal.

Basically you’re just trying to break a heal skill because you expect all ranger will waste 8 points and go x x 2 6 x.

3 second CD difference is huge. For starter, Healing as one and troll unguent only have 5 seconds cd difference. Also Troll Unguent is not the best healing in game anyway. It does not cleanse, and the overall healing amount per CD is lower than a complete passive skill: Healing signet, and requires 8 points to make it slightly better than Healing signet, but requires you to activate it, and it’s also interuptable.

It would only take 2 points to make it have more HPs at 28seconds (reduced to 22.4) than Healing signet, which is currently not possible at all. Just 2 points would make it 380 Hps base, where healing signet is currently 362 base and Unguent is 340. 2 points isnt hard to work into a build and creates options (and for gain, in this case). The other 6 is just icing on the cake if you invest in it. In no way would it be required to break even.

I also feel having a bit more synergy in your traits would be nice in this case. (same would go with HS trap).

ronpierce.2760:

It would only take 2 points .

That is still an investement, as opposed to Healing Signet, to a skill that, again, opposed to HS isn’t passive and can be interrupted.

Those 3 extra seconds also hurt the survivability of any build that benefit from Shared Anguish.

If they’re making TU a survival skill, they might aswell leave the recharge as it is and adjust it later if turns out to be too good.

Lazze.9870:

ronpierce.2760:

It would only take 2 points .

That is still an investement, as opposed to Healing Signet, to a skill that, again, opposed to HS isn’t passive and can be interrupted.

Those 3 extra seconds also hurt the survivability of any build that benefit from Shared Anguish.

If they’re making TU a survival skill, they might aswell leave the recharge as it is and adjust it later if turns out to be too good.

I’m fine with that… But I find that to be a hard argument to support. I just doubt they’d go for it. Regardless, I’d like them to test it at 25 and 28 rather than nothing at all. I think it’d be good for us. Especially if they did similar things for HaO and HS.

Tbh, any buff to TU would probably break the Ranger. It’s already our best heal.

Only thing I can think of is maybe increasing the Healing Power effect on it. Very slightly or starting from certain number.

Imagine a healing skill removing two conditions, having more HPS than HSignet, giving fury and healing over time. Yeah, only Healing Turret comes close, imo…

Been gone a while,someone mentioned a stealth trapper..does one of the ranger traps create a smoke field now?

hyjaxxx.1584:

Been gone a while,someone mentioned a stealth trapper..does one of the ranger traps create a smoke field now?

Nope.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Trapper

Toxsa.2701:

Curring.9752:

Ungent is one of the better heals in game as is and I agree that if it were to made a survival it’s base would need to be increased and 28 sounds like the best of both worlds.
Of course not everyone takes 6 into nature magic to get the cleans but those that do tend to be the survival condition and they’re already really potent as it is, the change to Ungent could be what tips the balance. That’s my opinion at least.

I was suprised we got a spirit heal and not a trap heal to be honest. Though if they changed Healing spring to a trap I’d like to see it function as follows;
Heals you for an amount when you throw the trap (Less than it currently does) but when the trap is triggered and you’re within the radius it heals you again (So overall it’d heal you for more if you’re within range than it currently does) and produce the field it currently does.

Heal as one needs to be a shout/beastmaster skill, giving some benefits to the player and more benefits to the pet. Heal as one has to be the most plain heal skill in the game only surpassed by the spirit heal.

Basically you’re just trying to break a heal skill because you expect all ranger will waste 8 points and go x x 2 6 x.

3 second CD difference is huge. For starter, Healing as one and troll unguent only have 5 seconds cd difference. Also Troll Unguent is not the best healing in game anyway. It does not cleanse, and the overall healing amount per CD is lower than a complete passive skill: Healing signet, and requires 8 points to make it slightly better than Healing signet, but requires you to activate it, and it’s also interuptable.

Firstly I never said Ungent was THE best heal in the game, I said ONE of the BETTER.
Secondly this is all speculation.
Thirdly for balance purposes you need to look at a skill fully traited AND not, hence why I said best of both worlds. You have to assume the best and the worst case scenario.

Fully traited it’d be on a 20 second cool down (50% upkeep) so effectively 10 second cool down, removes two conditions and grants fury. And on my build I wouldn’t have to change a thing, no need to adapt to it at all. It’d effectively be another condi clear every 10 seconds and an extra 100 hps however the main problem actually comes from the down time, before opponents had a 15 second window really to burn you down now they’d have 10 seconds.

So there would need to be something balanced which is going to hurt the untraited regardless.
This is coming from an sPvP perspective mostly.

Curring.9752:

Toxsa.2701:

Curring.9752:

Ungent is one of the better heals in game as is and I agree that if it were to made a survival it’s base would need to be increased and 28 sounds like the best of both worlds.
Of course not everyone takes 6 into nature magic to get the cleans but those that do tend to be the survival condition and they’re already really potent as it is, the change to Ungent could be what tips the balance. That’s my opinion at least.

I was suprised we got a spirit heal and not a trap heal to be honest. Though if they changed Healing spring to a trap I’d like to see it function as follows;
Heals you for an amount when you throw the trap (Less than it currently does) but when the trap is triggered and you’re within the radius it heals you again (So overall it’d heal you for more if you’re within range than it currently does) and produce the field it currently does.

Heal as one needs to be a shout/beastmaster skill, giving some benefits to the player and more benefits to the pet. Heal as one has to be the most plain heal skill in the game only surpassed by the spirit heal.

Basically you’re just trying to break a heal skill because you expect all ranger will waste 8 points and go x x 2 6 x.

3 second CD difference is huge. For starter, Healing as one and troll unguent only have 5 seconds cd difference. Also Troll Unguent is not the best healing in game anyway. It does not cleanse, and the overall healing amount per CD is lower than a complete passive skill: Healing signet, and requires 8 points to make it slightly better than Healing signet, but requires you to activate it, and it’s also interuptable.

Firstly I never said Ungent was THE best heal in the game, I said ONE of the BETTER.
Secondly this is all speculation.
Thirdly for balance purposes you need to look at a skill fully traited AND not, hence why I said best of both worlds. You have to assume the best and the worst case scenario.

Fully traited it’d be on a 20 second cool down (50% upkeep) so effectively 10 second cool down, removes two conditions and grants fury. And on my build I wouldn’t have to change a thing, no need to adapt to it at all. It’d effectively be another condi clear every 10 seconds and an extra 100 hps however the main problem actually comes from the down time, before opponents had a 15 second window really to burn you down now they’d have 10 seconds.

So there would need to be something balanced which is going to hurt the untraited regardless.
This is coming from an sPvP perspective mostly.

8.2k over 10 secs with a 20 CD is still nowhere close to Ele’s/ Shoutbow heal/ regen amount. Even if you combine everything with heavily invested trait, it still does not outsustain the real bunkering classes. Out-perform healing signet after heavy investent is actually reasonable, because warrior, like shoutbow, can also trait heavily into cleanse and heal (Cleansing Ire, warhorn remove condition, soldier rune, shout heal), WHILE getting healing signet for granted without trait. So it is reasonable that Troll Unguent to outperform Warrior’s healing skill when we do some heavy investment into it.

And like I said, not everyone is using your build so stop mentioning how well it synergize. If the synergy is too strong, then NERF that synergy instead of breaking a perfectly viable but nowhere OP heal skill. (28 sec cd will DESTROY Troll Unguent).

You all thought I was crazy… Feel my wrath.

If healing spring ends up being a survival skill instead of a trap there will be hell to pay. I want my double duration regen, bigger ground targeted spring that has a shorter CD.

Paired with flame. Trap I’d have reason to take trap traits in my celestial build… Oh please anet don’t be stingy