Guild Wars 2

Bunny Thumper

Class Mechanics:
-Hammer Proficiency: You can wield a hammer.
-Nature Force Bar: Has natural regeneration of +3%/sec to 100% while you have no active nature rituals. Each Nature Ritual depletes this bar. Nature rituals cannot be canceled. Nature rituals will only expire once the bar is completely drained.

Weapon: Hammer
1a. Swing: Deal [x] damage.
1b. Swing: Deal [x] damage.
1c. Sweep: Deal [x] damage. Deal an additional [x] damage and inflict weakness for [x] seconds for each additional target hit. (max 5 targets).
2. Stampede: Rush forward crippling any foe you pass by. Range: 900. Effect Radius: 150.
3. Crushing Blow: Deal [x] damage. Striking a knocked down foe will launch them.
4. Yeti Smash: Deal [x] damage. Knock down any target with 3 or more conditions for [x] seconds.
5. Earthen Shackles: You become solid earth for 5 seconds, preventing movement or skills, and taking no damage. Cast Muddy Terrain at your location for the duration you are transformed.

Class Utilities:

Heal.
Roaring winds: Gain 300 health per nature ritual currently affected by and an additional 50 per boon per second.(-5% Nature Force / second)

Utility: Nature Rituals
Symbiosis: All creatures in 900 range gain +500 health for each boon affecting them. (Leaving the range of this skill with less health than the Ritual grants will down you). (-1% Nature Force / second)
Frozen Soil: All revival skills within 900 range fail. (-1% Nature Force / second)
Rough Terrain: Negates all speed buffs on all creatures within 900 range. (-1% Nature Force / second)
Edge of Extinction: Deal [x] damage whenever a creature dies to all creatures within 900 range of the same type. (-1% Nature Force / second)

Elite Skill:
Strike as One: You and your pet instantly move to your target. Your next attack inflicts weakness for [x] seconds. Your pet’s next attack inflicts cripple for [x] seconds.

Sounds bad to be honest :T

DoogySnowStalker.2069:

Sounds bad to be honest :T

What did you dislike?

UnitedChaos.8364:

DoogySnowStalker.2069:

Sounds bad to be honest :T

What did you dislike?

The utilites you borrowed from Guild Wars 1 are literally copy pasted over rather than actually thinking up of a similar function to match its original form. I like the idea of having Nature Rituals, but your Elite Skill doesn’t match the idea behind the utilities; it being shout rather than a Nature Ritual. The only exception here is Roaring Winds.

Roaring Winds and Symbiosis weren’t thought out cause of how much sustain you could passively get from these two skills. You could manage 650 heals per second, 850 maximum, if you were able to somehow keep Resistance, Aegis, Quickness and Stability always on. As well with an additional 3500-5500 extra HP for doing nothing, with the extra health being applied to allies as well. You could cause ALOT of deaths on allied players or even creatures if you kept that effect on; Thieves, Eles, and Guardians would hate you.

Edge of Extinction would never serve much of a use in PvP because of it being too situational. PvE, it could find some use. Would be broken in WvW, where a group of ‘Bunny Hoppers’ could destroy entire zergs, by causing all of their Edge of Extinctions proccing through a domino effect. But this is assuming Anet would even allow a player character to be considered to be a creature; so if we weren’t it would literally only be a PvE skill.

Frozen Soil, I like this skill because, if my assumption is correct, fits the idea of this being a control Elite Specialization. The enemy would have to focus you down if they wanted to rez their allies. Although, if there was a complete 0% chance to rez down bodies, this would be over powered. So maybe a reduction to rez speed, similar to poison, but not poison so you could stack the rez reduction rates.

Rough Terrain could find some uses, but not many to be honest.

Strike as One doesn’t fit the idea behind the utilites since it stands out among the other utilites, because it isn’t a Nature Ritual at all. It would fit behind a Beast Mastery Elite Specialization due to the skill being a shout.

Nature Bar Force doesn’t really give much of a description, from you saying being able to generate 3%-100% of energy per seconds, so lacking info and other ways to generate energy.

There’s also no traits :T

DoogySnowStalker.2069:

UnitedChaos.8364:

DoogySnowStalker.2069:

Sounds bad to be honest :T

What did you dislike?

The utilites you borrowed from Guild Wars 1 are literally copy pasted over rather than actually thinking up of a similar function to match its original form. I like the idea of having Nature Rituals, but your Elite Skill doesn’t match the idea behind the utilities; it being shout rather than a Nature Ritual. The only exception here is Roaring Winds.

Roaring Winds and Symbiosis weren’t thought out cause of how much sustain you could passively get from these two skills. You could manage 650 heals per second, 850 maximum, if you were able to somehow keep Resistance, Aegis, Quickness and Stability always on. As well with an additional 3500-5500 extra HP for doing nothing, with the extra health being applied to allies as well. You could cause ALOT of deaths on allied players or even creatures if you kept that effect on; Thieves, Eles, and Guardians would hate you.

Edge of Extinction would never serve much of a use in PvP because of it being too situational. PvE, it could find some use. Would be broken in WvW, where a group of ‘Bunny Hoppers’ could destroy entire zergs, by causing all of their Edge of Extinctions proccing through a domino effect. But this is assuming Anet would even allow a player character to be considered to be a creature; so if we weren’t it would literally only be a PvE skill.

Frozen Soil, I like this skill because, if my assumption is correct, fits the idea of this being a control Elite Specialization. The enemy would have to focus you down if they wanted to rez their allies. Although, if there was a complete 0% chance to rez down bodies, this would be over powered. So maybe a reduction to rez speed, similar to poison, but not poison so you could stack the rez reduction rates.

Rough Terrain could find some uses, but not many to be honest.

Strike as One doesn’t fit the idea behind the utilites since it stands out among the other utilites, because it isn’t a Nature Ritual at all. It would fit behind a Beast Mastery Elite Specialization due to the skill being a shout.

Nature Bar Force doesn’t really give much of a description, from you saying being able to generate 3%-100% of energy per seconds, so lacking info and other ways to generate energy.

There’s also no traits :T

Thanks for the input.

I borrowed the utilities from gw1 as nostalgia. I think they’re pretty awesome.

I should further clarify the mechanic I suppose.

Nature Force bar: each Nature Ritual depletes this bar. Nature rituals cannot be uncast, meaning 1 nature ritual will deplete this bar slowly and last longer. While casting multiple nature rituals will deplete it faster and thus expire sooner. The healing skill, roaring winds, also depletes the nature force bar, but at a much faster rate than the utility nature rituals. This means, for roaring winds, you can cast many rituals and recieve a short-lasting but powerful regeneration. Or, you could cast it with few rituals (or none) to provide a small, but long-lasting regeneration. While under the effect of no rituals, you have a positive regeneration of 3%/second. This means that rituals will have no ICD, because the rely completely on this bar, including the heal skill.

This would allow you control over what effects are in play on the battlefield. The downside of these rituals is that they also affect you and your allies.

Roaring winds and symbiosis: I think these play great of of each other. Obviously you can’t kill yourself because the effect is on you, but enemies affected by your ritual who try to flee will be punished if the are at a critical health. Stripping boons from enemies could also push enemies all the while providing boon heavy allies a massive benefit. Symbiosis would also pair great with Rampage as one.

Edge of extinction, like you said would need some limitation in wvw or additional skill fact. In gw1 the spirit would lose health each the the effect activated. This skill was intended to punish mesmer clones and necromancer minions. Maybe for my idea it depletes an additional 1% off your nature force bar per tick, thus ending it sooner, or have a maximum of 10 targets. And of course cannot stack with other edge of extinctions.

Frozen Soil, as intended, would fail if you try to resurrect an ally. Targets being ressed before the nature ritual’s effect would continue to revive. You can still revive yourself from the down state. This would direct pressure to the ranger. Remember if your allies go down you’ll need to expedite your nature force bar’s depletion. You could do this by casting more nature rituals to deplete the bar faster or leave the range of the downed ally. Enemies can pressure thumpers and make them flee and allow their allies to be ressurected.

Rough Terrain would be totally situational. If your team is winning a team fight on point. Maybe you would cast this to slow foes from fleeing. Allowing more ranged attacks and spells before the target gets away.

Strike as one. I intended this to help the hammer portion of this class. This would allow thumper to get close and affect foes with a series of knock downs, knock backs and affect them with nature rituals.

UnitedChaos.8364:

Thanks for the input.

I borrowed the utilities from gw1 as nostalgia. I think they’re pretty awesome.

I should further clarify the mechanic I suppose.

Nature Force bar: each Nature Ritual depletes this bar. Nature rituals cannot be uncast, meaning 1 nature ritual will deplete this bar slowly and last longer. While casting multiple nature rituals will deplete it faster and thus expire sooner. The healing skill, roaring winds, also depletes the nature force bar, but at a much faster rate than the utility nature rituals. This means, for roaring winds, you can cast many rituals and recieve a short-lasting but powerful regeneration. Or, you could cast it with few rituals (or none) to provide a small, but long-lasting regeneration. While under the effect of no rituals, you have a positive regeneration of 3%/second. This means that rituals will have no ICD, because the rely completely on this bar, including the heal skill.

That much I could gather, but you fail to still answer my question.

-Nature Force Bar: Has natural regeneration of +3%/sec to 100% while you have no active nature rituals.

How does the natural regeneration spike from 3%-100%?

This would allow you control over what effects are in play on the battlefield. The downside of these rituals is that they also affect you and your allies.

I didn’t think for the effects of the skills to both affect allies and enemies, makes things interesting but problematic at the same time.

Roaring winds and symbiosis: I think these play great of of each other. Obviously you can’t kill yourself because the effect is on you, but enemies affected by your ritual who try to flee will be punished if the are at a critical health. Stripping boons from enemies could also push enemies all the while providing boon heavy allies a massive benefit. Symbiosis would also pair great with Rampage as one.

There is still the issue of the amount of sustain given through these two utilies at a time, 650-850 heals/second and 3500-5500 extra health. The last meta caused the idea of sustain to be completely butched because of how much there was, so introducing this concept into the game with the amount of sustain it gives would be again a problem

Frozen Soil, as intended, would fail if you try to resurrect an ally. Targets being ressed before the nature ritual’s effect would continue to revive. You can still revive yourself from the down state. This would direct pressure to the ranger. Remember if your allies go down you’ll need to expedite your nature force bar’s depletion. You could do this by casting more nature rituals to deplete the bar faster or leave the range of the downed ally. Enemies can pressure thumpers and make them flee and allow their allies to be ressurected.

By having this affect both allies and enemies would cause alot of problems. By being unable to rez your allies, you would have to burn all of your energy to cause yourself to become vulnerable or either have to leave or even give up the point because of your entire presence on the team fight being a nuiscance if someone goes down.

Rough Terrain would be totally situational. If your team is winning a team fight on point. Maybe you would cast this to slow foes from fleeing. Allowing more ranged attacks and spells before the target gets away.

Still don’t find much use for this skill to be honest. Among ranged attacks, there are still gap closers for melee skills to chase down fleeing enemies.

Strike as one. I intended this to help the hammer portion of this class. This would allow thumper to get close and affect foes with a series of knock downs, knock backs and affect them with nature rituals.

Still doesn’t ignore the fact that this skill doesn’t fit amongst the rest of the utilites. The utilities you gave to this Specialization are Nature Rituals, not Shouts. If you wished for a gap closer on the hammer, adding it to the weapon skills would be the option to do so.

For the regeneration. I meant you will regenerate 3% per second until The bar is full (100%).

Anyway, thanks for the input. I still think it’s a really cool idea. Having both benefits and negatives means thumpers will have to skillfully manage when to cast rituals.

I think there are interesting combinations such as:

Point blank shot > Strike as one > yeti Smash > crushing Blow
Which would: knock down > telephoto to and inflict weakness and cripple > knockdown (if they have a 3rd condition) > then launch

Or

Rampage as one > symbiosis >roaring winds
Which would: provide (until nature force bar is depleted)
3 boons = an extra 1500hp
2 rituals grant +600hp per second (300hp/sec per ritual)
2 rituals grant +150hp per second (50hp/sec per boon)

While other seem to not like the idea, I find it almost interesting. There are still some restriction to add :

- Your nature ritual ought to have an inert stage, a passive stage and an active stage. (like Herald’s one)
- Your nature ritual also ought to only affect 5 target for 10 second with a refresh every 3 second. (Like spirits)
- values need to be balanced (for example frost soil could reduce revive speed or revive healing value by 50% instead of the interrupt effect which feel out of place)

Outside of that, there is a few issues :

- the elite doesn’t feel like a nature ritual
- the healing skill is the only skill that feel like having a balanced cost but need a cap of boon taken into account
- you didn’t talked about traits

Anet already gave us “spirits”… They were epic… Then Anet gutted them…

Your weapon skills sound rather terrible as there is zero evade or blocks which the ranger needs… Your only option your proposing is a “don’t move, don’t attack, but don’t take damage” skill that in all honestly sounds very terrible when compared to ele’s earth focus 5…

Almost every ranger weapon has some kind of evade or block (GS, sw, dag, sb, spear, staff)… In all honestly the only one I can think of that doesn’t is ax/torch and maybe harpoon but I think the #5 is an evade or atleast a leap backwards…

If bunny thumper was even to become a thing it would have to be LOTS like warrior by giving you access to lots of CC if the weapon or utilities aren’t going to give block/evade options… So it’d basically turn into a warrior hammer copy/paste…

I used to really like the idea of having a bunny thumper in gw2 but honestly ranger already decent melee options, what we need is a viable condi spec to compete on higher levels of gameplay for a DPS role as our physical damage is tied to a 90% worthless pet.

The utilities are also very bad… You can’t copy/paste from gw1 and apply them to gw2 and expect anyone will think that is a good idea… Because it is not… Totally different game types… Even in gw1 pvp you didn’t use those spirits because they hurt you as often as help you…

Allison The Strange.4519:

Anet already gave us “spirits”… They were epic… Then Anet gutted them…

Your weapon skills sound rather terrible as there is zero evade or blocks which the ranger needs… Your only option your proposing is a “don’t move, don’t attack, but don’t take damage” skill that in all honestly sounds very terrible when compared to ele’s earth focus 5…

Almost every ranger weapon has some kind of evade or block (GS, sw, dag, sb, spear, staff)… In all honestly the only one I can think of that doesn’t is ax/torch and maybe harpoon but I think the #5 is an evade or atleast a leap backwards…

If bunny thumper was even to become a thing it would have to be LOTS like warrior by giving you access to lots of CC if the weapon or utilities aren’t going to give block/evade options… So it’d basically turn into a warrior hammer copy/paste…

I used to really like the idea of having a bunny thumper in gw2 but honestly ranger already decent melee options, what we need is a viable condi spec to compete on higher levels of gameplay for a DPS role as our physical damage is tied to a 90% worthless pet.

The utilities are also very bad… You can’t copy/paste from gw1 and apply them to gw2 and expect anyone will think that is a good idea… Because it is not… Totally different game types… Even in gw1 pvp you didn’t use those spirits because they hurt you as often as help you…

I can’t help but disagree. Elite Specializations should add something additional to the class. It’s not just going to stand alone. My “Bunny Thumper” is a nostalgic throwback to gw1. It has a lot of hard ccs and provides a lot of game changing effects.

Not every weapon has to have a form of dodge or block (I guess Stampede could have an evade while charging). Yes, now that you mention it, it does sound a lot like a warrior, but I’m all for an up-close ranger. It’s not like warriors haven’t gone out of their cliche zone. For example, pretty much all pvp warriors are now confusion/burn builds. That’s like saying “they’re too much like mesmers”. It’s nice to have a little similarity to other classes, while still staying unique, of course. I disagrre about a viable condi spec. There are several condi builds that are very powerful already like Druid Bleed, Mad Bleed King Druid, and Poison Druid.

It sounds like you have a great deal of animosity towards the pet mechanic, but like it or not, it’s here to stay, so you may as well try to get the most out of it. If you don’t think pets are powerful try Roaming Smokescale or Cleric Burst. The latter’s tiger has the ability to hit hard 7-8k criticals.

Lastly, I don’t think the utilities are terrible. Yes, they are basically identical to their gw1 counterpart, but you’re not going to run a full build of nature rituals. Why would you? Throwing a Frozen Soil down in a winning team fight basically ensures the win. Using Rough Terrain on a fleeing enemies can prevent them from escaping. The skill you quoted as “don’t move, don’t attack, but don’t take damage. That in all honestly sounds very terrible…” could be used on a cluster of enemies, applying a massive aoe immobilize, allowing huge allied hits.

I can think of countless possiblities. I think everyone is viewing this idea as a stand-alone thing, but when in conjunction with the other ranger skills makes it massively powerful.

See combinations above^
Rough Terrain>Muddy Terrain>Drakehound f2(immobilize)>Earthen Shackles For a massively long chained immobilize.
or
Signet of Stone>Earthen Shackles for long lasting point contesting.

Allison The Strange.4519:

Almost every ranger weapon has some kind of evade or block (GS, sw, dag, sb, spear, staff)… In all honestly the only one I can think of that doesn’t is ax/torch and maybe harpoon but I think the #5 is an evade or atleast a leap backwards…

If bunny thumper was even to become a thing it would have to be LOTS like warrior by giving you access to lots of CC if the weapon or utilities aren’t going to give block/evade options… So it’d basically turn into a warrior hammer copy/paste…

What if hammer was more hybrid with counters/blocks/cc/buffs than just pure cc?

UnitedChaos.8364:

I disagrre about a viable condi spec. There are several condi builds that are very powerful already like Druid Bleed, Mad Bleed King Druid, and Poison Druid.

UnitedChaos.8364:

If you don’t think pets are powerful try Roaming Smokescale or Cleric Burst. The latter’s tiger has the ability to hit hard 7-8k criticals.

Oh you naive Ranger…

UnitedChaos.8364:

Allison The Strange.4519:

Anet already gave us “spirits”… They were epic… Then Anet gutted them…

-snip

I can’t help but disagree. Elite Specializations should add something additional to the class. It’s not just going to stand alone. My “Bunny Thumper” is a nostalgic throwback to gw1. It has a lot of hard ccs and provides a lot of game changing effects.

Not every weapon has to have a form of dodge or block (I guess Stampede could have an evade while charging). Yes, now that you mention it, it does sound a lot like a warrior, but I’m all for an up-close ranger. It’s not like warriors haven’t gone out of their cliche zone. For example, pretty much all pvp warriors are now confusion/burn builds. That’s like saying “they’re too much like mesmers”. It’s nice to have a little similarity to other classes, while still staying unique, of course. I disagrre about a viable condi spec. There are several condi builds that are very powerful already like Druid Bleed, Mad Bleed King Druid, and Poison Druid.

It sounds like you have a great deal of animosity towards the pet mechanic, but like it or not, it’s here to stay, so you may as well try to get the most out of it. If you don’t think pets are powerful try Roaming Smokescale or Cleric Burst. The latter’s tiger has the ability to hit hard 7-8k criticals.

Lastly, I don’t think the utilities are terrible. Yes, they are basically identical to their gw1 counterpart, but you’re not going to run a full build of nature rituals. Why would you? Throwing a Frozen Soil down in a winning team fight basically ensures the win. Using Rough Terrain on a fleeing enemies can prevent them from escaping. The skill you quoted as “don’t move, don’t attack, but don’t take damage. That in all honestly sounds very terrible…” could be used on a cluster of enemies, applying a massive aoe immobilize, allowing huge allied hits.

I can think of countless possiblities. I think everyone is viewing this idea as a stand-alone thing, but when in conjunction with the other ranger skills makes it massively powerful.

See combinations above^
Rough Terrain>Muddy Terrain>Drakehound f2(immobilize)>Earthen Shackles For a massively long chained immobilize.
or
Signet of Stone>Earthen Shackles for long lasting point contesting.

I’m all for nostalgia, I loved gw1 rangers more than any class (even though I mained necro because ez mode).

For your condition build suggestions… Ranger is the bottom tier of power dps potential… Ranger’s condition damage is mid tier damage compared to other classes power dps potential… If you deny this your flat out lying… No if’s and’s or but’s about it… You should also count that fact that our best condi dps weapon sets are ax/torch AND axe/torch because quickdraw… We don’t even get a good enough 2nd condi weapon to justify having a different weapon set!!!

The utilities are so niche that most of them will never be used in PvP and it will become a huge problem as every other class power spike so hard with the next expansion (and we know they will) because they will have access to atleast 2~3 good new utilities. Literally the only good skill suggestion I’ve seen you make is the elite which doesn’t even fit in the idea of your elite spec suggestion… It’d be like throwing in lots of healing into the reaper traitline, square pegs don’t fit in circle holes… To top it off your utilities offer zero counterplay other than “kill the ranger or run away”, but lets face it, who is going to run from a player using such bad skills…

Razor.9872:

Allison The Strange.4519:

Almost every ranger weapon has some kind of evade or block (GS, sw, dag, sb, spear, staff)… In all honestly the only one I can think of that doesn’t is ax/torch and maybe harpoon but I think the #5 is an evade or atleast a leap backwards…

-snip

What if hammer was more hybrid with counters/blocks/cc/buffs than just pure cc?

As long as it bringing something to the table for survival and is not just just damage, damage, and more damage… The reason hammer works on warrior is because it has tons of cc with great damage and condition mitigation (back when ham warrior was good). The reason hammer works on engi is because it has a block (that does damage), an evade (that does damage & leaps), and a reflect (that does damage & whirls).