Guild Wars 2

I thought I’d share this build for all to see, as I’ve already shared with many ppl in game.
I designed this build for 1v1s but it’s still v.strong in group battles

This is the build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQRAnY8fjEVB2VWKWo2Bi2DOZeM9PkePjR5/MWpEZVA;T4Ag2Croay0koJbTumkNtCZEyJkdBvQmFA

^ This is the all-around version, the one you can use for hotjoins or tournies etc. However if you’re dueling specific opponents you can tailor it a bit:

1.Against thieves and elementalists, use entangle, against burst warriors or other cc-heavy classes, RaO is great as they can’t stun you. (against thieves with thieves guild ultimate, you might wanna wait until they use it to pop entangle, thief buddies will actually break-out pretty quick but it does some dmg, and if you can lay down torch 5 on them too, then they will die)

2.Wilderness survival: xi for enemies who deal condition dmg, xii for direct damage.

3. amulet – you will win 90% of matches with shaman, if you get into an endless fight where neither can win, switch to Rabid amulet, and you will be able to win (though so will they if they out-play you).

4. Pets: interchangeable, you can run jag + raven for high burst, good for thieves and eles, wolf, hyena for chain cc is also good in some situations, especially if you’re using RaO, as pets are you’re only form of hard cc in that case. Or a mix of cc + dmg.

Sorry I don’t have footage of it in action, my laptop can’t handle free screencap software and the game at the same time.

This isn’t an auto-win button build, I’d imagine no such build exists, many fights I’ve had are close, but I do win 95% of matches with this, though I am about as familiar with it as you can be, so don’t expect the same results without practice. As I say to all who ask me, I hope you have fun with this build!

if it’s not 0/0/30/10/30 or its variant, it’s not unstoppable.

0/0/30/10/30 is quite stoppable, that being said, no build is unstoppable.

Most people wouldn’t have bigger problem killing you.

I doubt anyone will have problems killing you with such a weird build.

The builds really not all that, i have no idea why you’d be running 2 signets though if you’re going for a condi damage build, why not drop one of them and pick up either spike trap or even better for your build, sharpening stones? I really don’t see what you’re trying to accomplish by taking the wilderness survival reduction trait, and then only taking one of those skills…

this is a decent build but I still think 0/0/30/10/30 is a better deul build. We need more variety though so its good to have comparison builds.

I’ll stick with 30 BM ftw.

hey guys, love the fact u think my build is weird. Yeah no build is unstoppable, but it’s not really one build, like i said, i make changes according to situation but core stays the same (even so it’s just a title lol).

@ Durzlla: i assure you 20% off cd on stunbreaker/vigor is totally worth it. It also works on entangle btw.

Lmao @ the two saying “most people” and even “anyone” (XD) can kill me. Please, please be on EU servers! Almost no-one can beat me with this build. I suggest you put your money where your mouth is, message me in-game and i’ll make a believer out of you.

Open your minds people, just ‘cos no-one’s thought of it yet doesn’t mean it’s not viable!

I think apothecary exotics instead of shaman’s for more healing power, less toughness, and same condition damage would also work in this build (unfortunately Apothecary unavailabe in sPVP/tPVP).

I also am a big fan of Superior Rune of the Grove and the food: Bowl of Orrian Truffle and Meat Stew for insane protection up time (admittedly prefer a more defensive sustained damage build instead of burst). Build to our strengths as we get the best regen and protection in the game (sorry guardians).

Does superior rune of the grove now actually proc the entangle?

it does for me but the cooldown is really long only downside.

I haven’t seen this build since release month. 0/0/30/25/15 used to be a common setup and regarded as one of the better bunker style builds for rangers back in release month heading into October.
The 0/0/30/10/30 build actually evolved from some of the ideas of this build based on meta shifts. As people started building more and more towards survival, the build was not able to output enough damage fast enough. People observed that the pet could output consistently high enough damage to warrant dropping 15 in Nature Magic and adding to Beastmastery in order to maximize damage potential while retaining decent survival abilities.
I’m not really sure as to why the thread immediately received so much hate. I also think it’s humorous that people immediately attacked a build with their opinions without knowing the first thing about the build.
I’m not going to sift through every thread to find every reference, but a few quick ones:

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/68735-tpvp-ranger-pov-taking-suggestions-build-00302515/

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/69115-looking-for-survivability-shortsword-torch-build/

If you read these, remember what dates they were posted and at what point the community mindsets were at when the discussions were happening. There isn’t much to them, but it was at a point where trap builds were regarded as the only competitively viable build (the community mindset hasn’t really changed that much then, has it haha).

I couldn’t even find a thread were 0/0/30/10/30 existed during those dates, so I’m sticking to the idea that it evolved from the original 0/0/30/25/15 build. Which does not at all translate to one being more viable than the other by the way, as the evolution took place with a changing metagame and community.
Regardless, the build was an evasion tank/bunker then, and should function the same, if not better now that we have explored trait/sigil/rune/weapon options more thoroughly.

Thanks for the info jcbroe! v.interesting. I can definitely see the thinking behind moving from 0/0/30/25/15 to 0/0/30/10/30 – i.e. getting more damage output from pets, and could certainly believe that’s how the build evolved. Interesting to have the history, haven’t been active on forums etc until recently.

Personally I like the (permanent from perma-regen) +5% damage i get from NM tree, i think it’s almost as good as the extra pet dmg you’d get from + 15 in BM since pets don’t actually land that many hits vs skilled opponents. Factor in the improved survivability and that’s why i prefer 30/25/15.

And you’re right, i absolutely use it as an evasion bunker build, the reason i have sword on one set and dagger on the other is so i always have a weapon evade no matter which set i’m in.

@ glock – some interesting ideas, unfortunately i only play spvp not WvW so my options are more limitted, but that apothecary set sounds like a good idea, especially since other bunker condition builds are the biggest threat, so you won’t lose much from the lower toughness.

Hey thanks for giving me a new build to think about Wanderer.

I like how the ranger community pools experiences and shares ideas. Fascinating how ranger builds haved evolved in relation to the meta since launch. Good luck with whatever variant you come up with! cheers.

Wanderer.5471:

Thanks for the info jcbroe! v.interesting. I can definitely see the thinking behind moving from 0/0/30/25/15 to 0/0/30/10/30 – i.e. getting more damage output from pets, and could certainly believe that’s how the build evolved. Interesting to have the history, haven’t been active on forums etc until recently.

Personally I like the (permanent from perma-regen) +5% damage i get from NM tree, i think it’s almost as good as the extra pet dmg you’d get from + 15 in BM since pets don’t actually land that many hits vs skilled opponents. Factor in the improved survivability and that’s why i prefer 30/25/15.

And you’re right, i absolutely use it as an evasion bunker build, the reason i have sword on one set and dagger on the other is so i always have a weapon evade no matter which set i’m in.

@ glock – some interesting ideas, unfortunately i only play spvp not WvW so my options are more limitted, but that apothecary set sounds like a good idea, especially since other bunker condition builds are the biggest threat, so you won’t lose much from the lower toughness.

No problem. The way I understand the choice to go 30 into BM is for the extra healing from Natural Healing and the 300 total points in healing. However, what many people fail to realize is that, along with not gaining much DPS on the pet overall (it is only 300 points total to each of their attributes, is isn’t doing as much as people think. Reference: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/79991-beastmastery-math-breakdown/)

Another thing they don’t realize is that with 0/0/30/25/15 you gain +15% more boon duration and +1500 health. This actually works to directly increase survival better than the 0/0/30/10/30 version.

Just food for though, I’m glad you are enjoying your build and success with everybody. Hope you keep having fun (a lot of the community is jaded right now, it’s good to see people still having fun and success).

Durzlla.6295:

The builds really not all that, i have no idea why you’d be running 2 signets though if you’re going for a condi damage build, why not drop one of them and pick up either spike trap or even better for your build, sharpening stones? I really don’t see what you’re trying to accomplish by taking the wilderness survival reduction trait, and then only taking one of those skills…

Sharpening Stone is as bad as the other 90% of the skills Ranger has.

jcbroe.4329:

No problem. The way I understand the choice to go 30 into BM is for the extra healing from Natural Healing and the 300 total points in healing. However, what many people fail to realize is that, along with not gaining much DPS on the pet overall (it is only 300 points total to each of their attributes, is isn’t doing as much as people think. Reference: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/79991-beastmastery-math-breakdown/)

Another thing they don’t realize is that with 0/0/30/25/15 you gain +15% more boon duration and +1500 health. This actually works to directly increase survival better than the 0/0/30/10/30 version.

Just food for though, I’m glad you are enjoying your build and success with everybody. Hope you keep having fun (a lot of the community is jaded right now, it’s good to see people still having fun and success).

I’m not really sure that the 0/0/30/25/15 is hands down better than 0/0/30/10/30 when it comes to survival.

Some things to consider when comparing these two builds:

• How does the Bountiful Hunter trait compare to Nature’s Wrath trait for damage?
• How much survivability/added damage can Fortifying Bond bring to your pet?
• How big of an impact does loosing out on the second major BM trait bring?
• 1500 more health vs 150 more healing power? 1500 more health = a bigger buffer, but loosing out on regen from the signet + lower heals/regeneration
• Survivability/damage of pets?

Nice job on the creative build, I will have to test out something like it sometime. So this is similar to the popular 0/0/30/10/30 build, but if I am right it is a little more hard bunker with gradual conditions and pet burst.

A question, how do the leeching sigils work out for you? I know a few people that use them, are they a big help? Have you tried energy, or do you find yourself with plenty of dodges? Because that is usually what I go for.

One thing I didn’t realize is the bountiful hunter trait, it seems it can really help with power, and I hadn’t though about combining it with a defensive build with regen, protection, and vigor, I always though about the offensive boons with that trait.

Overall, seems interesting. Good luck with it, take the comments and constructive criticism to account, but ignore the comments from empty skeptics.

OGDeadHead.8326

I’m not really sure that the 0/0/30/25/15 is hands down better than 0/0/30/10/30 when it comes to survival.

Some things to consider when comparing these two builds:

• Survivability/damage of pets?

Deadhead you nailed the seminal issue. The whole point of 30 BM is you can go full dps pets (cats or birds) and not have to worry about them dying easily to AOE. A ranger with a dead pet is obviously gimp. 0/0/30/10/30 works in real time gameplay; I don’t care what some number crunching theorycrafter found numerically or hypothetically.

OGDeadHead.8326:

jcbroe.4329:

No problem. The way I understand the choice to go 30 into BM is for the extra healing from Natural Healing and the 300 total points in healing. However, what many people fail to realize is that, along with not gaining much DPS on the pet overall (it is only 300 points total to each of their attributes, is isn’t doing as much as people think. Reference: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/79991-beastmastery-math-breakdown/)

Another thing they don’t realize is that with 0/0/30/25/15 you gain +15% more boon duration and +1500 health. This actually works to directly increase survival better than the 0/0/30/10/30 version.

Just food for though, I’m glad you are enjoying your build and success with everybody. Hope you keep having fun (a lot of the community is jaded right now, it’s good to see people still having fun and success).

I’m not really sure that the 0/0/30/25/15 is hands down better than 0/0/30/10/30 when it comes to survival.

Some things to consider when comparing these two builds:

• How does the Bountiful Hunter trait compare to Nature’s Wrath trait for damage?
• How much survivability/added damage can Fortifying Bond bring to your pet?
• How big of an impact does loosing out on the second major BM trait bring?
• 1500 more health vs 150 more healing power? 1500 more health = a bigger buffer, but loosing out on regen from the signet + lower heals/regeneration
• Survivability/damage of pets?

All good questions, I may be able to provide some insight on the 2nd and 5th. I have a build where a run 15/15 in the last two trait lines for fortifying bond combined with some pet stat increase. So far, I have found it to be at least as sufficient as having just 30 in BM. Fortifying bond will give the pet all of the protection and regen that you recieve. The regen the pet will gain from this exceeds the amount it gets from natural healing, and the protection helps survival as well. Damage wise, I know that might stacking combined with fortifying bond becomes insane with your pet. Though might is hard to come by in the presented build, with some minor tweaks such as sigils and runes, you can still give your pet some extra power/cd. In a group fight where might is thrown around like candy, your pet will receive a huge boost. With fortifying bond vs 30 in BM, I think that the question becomes big boosts vs sustained stats, because not all boons are 100% uptime, though when up they probably surpass the stats given from extra BM. Beyond that, if you traited up to master traits, the scale would be between an extra defensive trait for the ranger, or extra aspects to the pet in combat.

Jazenn could you post a link to your 15/15 build when you get the opportunity? Thanks very much.

I posted it in another thread, forgive me for copy/pasting but I am too lazy to make a build on a website right now lol.

0/10(I)/30(III,X,XI)/15(VI)/15(VI)
Full Clerics, Dwayna Runes
Greatsword/Sword+Dagger, Sigil of Energy/Hydromancy+Force
Jungle Stalker/River Drake
Healing Spring, Muddy Terrain OR Quickening Zephyr, Signet of the Wild, Signet of the Hunt, Entangle

jcbroe.4329:

I haven’t seen this build since release month. 0/0/30/25/15 used to be a common setup and regarded as one of the better bunker style builds for rangers back in release month heading into October.
The 0/0/30/10/30 build actually evolved from some of the ideas of this build based on meta shifts. As people started building more and more towards survival, the build was not able to output enough damage fast enough. People observed that the pet could output consistently high enough damage to warrant dropping 15 in Nature Magic and adding to Beastmastery in order to maximize damage potential while retaining decent survival abilities.
I’m not really sure as to why the thread immediately received so much hate. I also think it’s humorous that people immediately attacked a build with their opinions without knowing the first thing about the build.
I’m not going to sift through every thread to find every reference, but a few quick ones:

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/68735-tpvp-ranger-pov-taking-suggestions-build-00302515/

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/69115-looking-for-survivability-shortsword-torch-build/

If you read these, remember what dates they were posted and at what point the community mindsets were at when the discussions were happening. There isn’t much to them, but it was at a point where trap builds were regarded as the only competitively viable build (the community mindset hasn’t really changed that much then, has it haha).

I couldn’t even find a thread were 0/0/30/10/30 existed during those dates, so I’m sticking to the idea that it evolved from the original 0/0/30/25/15 build. Which does not at all translate to one being more viable than the other by the way, as the evolution took place with a changing metagame and community.
Regardless, the build was an evasion tank/bunker then, and should function the same, if not better now that we have explored trait/sigil/rune/weapon options more thoroughly.

I believe I was the first person to come up with the 0/0/30/10/30 build.

I made sure to check back in old threads to find someone using it before November when i developed it, i could not (but that doesn’t mean someone wasn’t using it)

As for evolving it from the /0/0/30/25/15 build.

Not really, the way I evolved it was simple.

I use to use 0/30/10/0/30 as a Shortbow ranger

After the shortbow nerf, I decided to try out new weapon sets, and decided on Axe/Torch with Sword/Dagger after looking at Pain Inverter, I actually used close to the same setup now in terms of Skills (signet of wild/lightning/PI)

The reason I dropped the 20 points in Skirmishing for WS is I wanted to be beefy and I wanted Barkskin at the time as well (I was using Superior Rune of Hoelbrek at the time, because once you hit 20% life or whatever, you became a block of ice, I learned that you could pop QZ at the time and your pet would kill a thief standing next to you)

Eventually I read that EB actually removed all conditions so I dropped Barkskin.

At the time I was using a combination of Rabid Gear and Carrion Gear.

and using 0/10/30/0/30

I adopted 0/0/30/10/30 when Apothecary came out as a gear set, as I wanted more healing at the time.

That’s how that spec got developed.

This is one of the first posts I actually made on the build

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Thoughts-on-my-World-vs-World-Ranger-Build-i-ve-been-running/first#post608398

As you can see, I was using 0/10/30/0/30 at the time, because Apothecary was like 1-2 weeks away

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Anyone-else-tempted-to-get-Apoth-Gear/first#post812400

This is the first post I made about the idea of 0/0/30/10/30

I don’t really have anything to add to this topic myself, save to say that this is where I first learned of the 30/10/30 BM Bunker build.

OGDeadHead.8326:

jcbroe.4329:

No problem. The way I understand the choice to go 30 into BM is for the extra healing from Natural Healing and the 300 total points in healing. However, what many people fail to realize is that, along with not gaining much DPS on the pet overall (it is only 300 points total to each of their attributes, is isn’t doing as much as people think. Reference: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/79991-beastmastery-math-breakdown/)

Another thing they don’t realize is that with 0/0/30/25/15 you gain +15% more boon duration and +1500 health. This actually works to directly increase survival better than the 0/0/30/10/30 version.

Just food for though, I’m glad you are enjoying your build and success with everybody. Hope you keep having fun (a lot of the community is jaded right now, it’s good to see people still having fun and success).

I’m not really sure that the 0/0/30/25/15 is hands down better than 0/0/30/10/30 when it comes to survival.

Some things to consider when comparing these two builds:

• How does the Bountiful Hunter trait compare to Nature’s Wrath trait for damage?
• How much survivability/added damage can Fortifying Bond bring to your pet?
• How big of an impact does loosing out on the second major BM trait bring?
• 1500 more health vs 150 more healing power? 1500 more health = a bigger buffer, but loosing out on regen from the signet + lower heals/regeneration
• Survivability/damage of pets?

1) bountiful hunter is flat out better if you’re using any gear with power on it, 5%dmg > 130 power in -most- scenarios.

2) every time he dodge roles his pet gets 6s of protection, if he has perms regen so does his pet, and if he gets might hi pet mirrors that stack of might except each one lasts 10s, which can make the pet better off than the ranger in most scenarios. This -also- makes it so both he and his pet will be dishing out an extra 5% damage constantly since the first trait buffs BOTH parties, not just the ranger.

3) ATM the second major for BM is total garbage unless you’re limiting your pet variability, so he is actually not hurting himself by not avoiding the second master trait as much as he would in another tree.

4) AT MOST that 150 healing power will add 150 extra health to a heal, the 1500 health is a significantly better option if he’s not a support build, and since he doesn’t have the 25pt BM trait, healing power isn’t amazing for his build in large amounts.

5) his pet damage will be lacking big time compared to a full 30pts in BM, however survivability gained from perms port (or borderline perma) and perma regen would make his pets equally sturdy, if not sturdier than a 30pt BM pet.

After looking more closely at your build it looks REALLY solid, you’ve covered a lot of your weak points you’d get from not doing certain popular options by choosing another route. I’m not sure if I agree with your amulet choice, but it is really effective, I’m not going to lie.

PS: what sigils and runes do you run?

Durzlla.6295:

OGDeadHead.8326:

jcbroe.4329:

No problem. The way I understand the choice to go 30 into BM is for the extra healing from Natural Healing and the 300 total points in healing. However, what many people fail to realize is that, along with not gaining much DPS on the pet overall (it is only 300 points total to each of their attributes, is isn’t doing as much as people think. Reference: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/79991-beastmastery-math-breakdown/)

Another thing they don’t realize is that with 0/0/30/25/15 you gain +15% more boon duration and +1500 health. This actually works to directly increase survival better than the 0/0/30/10/30 version.

Just food for though, I’m glad you are enjoying your build and success with everybody. Hope you keep having fun (a lot of the community is jaded right now, it’s good to see people still having fun and success).

I’m not really sure that the 0/0/30/25/15 is hands down better than 0/0/30/10/30 when it comes to survival.

Some things to consider when comparing these two builds:

• How does the Bountiful Hunter trait compare to Nature’s Wrath trait for damage?
• How much survivability/added damage can Fortifying Bond bring to your pet?
• How big of an impact does loosing out on the second major BM trait bring?
• 1500 more health vs 150 more healing power? 1500 more health = a bigger buffer, but loosing out on regen from the signet + lower heals/regeneration
• Survivability/damage of pets?

1) bountiful hunter is flat out better if you’re using any gear with power on it, 5%dmg > 130 power in -most- scenarios.

2) every time he dodge roles his pet gets 6s of protection, if he has perms regen so does his pet, and if he gets might hi pet mirrors that stack of might except each one lasts 10s, which can make the pet better off than the ranger in most scenarios. This -also- makes it so both he and his pet will be dishing out an extra 5% damage constantly since the first trait buffs BOTH parties, not just the ranger.

3) ATM the second major for BM is total garbage unless you’re limiting your pet variability, so he is actually not hurting himself by not avoiding the second master trait as much as he would in another tree.

4) AT MOST that 150 healing power will add 150 extra health to a heal, the 1500 health is a significantly better option if he’s not a support build, and since he doesn’t have the 25pt BM trait, healing power isn’t amazing for his build in large amounts.

5) his pet damage will be lacking big time compared to a full 30pts in BM, however survivability gained from perms port (or borderline perma) and perma regen would make his pets equally sturdy, if not sturdier than a 30pt BM pet.

After looking more closely at your build it looks REALLY solid, you’ve covered a lot of your weak points you’d get from not doing certain popular options by choosing another route. I’m not sure if I agree with your amulet choice, but it is really effective, I’m not going to lie.

The 2nd talent option for BM isn’t to bad if you use Birds, even if ya don’t though, you can use other abilities which aren’t to bad.

mighty swap/compassion training come to mind.

I personally have a harder time going past 15 points in Nature’s, in regards to giving up 10 points in Skirmishing for the 30% crit damage talent for your pet.

15 points in Natures though is viable with Power/Clerics based builds I feel.

Xsorus.2507:

Durzlla.6295:

OGDeadHead.8326:

jcbroe.4329:

No problem. The way I understand the choice to go 30 into BM is for the extra healing from Natural Healing and the 300 total points in healing. However, what many people fail to realize is that, along with not gaining much DPS on the pet overall (it is only 300 points total to each of their attributes, is isn’t doing as much as people think. Reference: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/79991-beastmastery-math-breakdown/)

Another thing they don’t realize is that with 0/0/30/25/15 you gain +15% more boon duration and +1500 health. This actually works to directly increase survival better than the 0/0/30/10/30 version.

Just food for though, I’m glad you are enjoying your build and success with everybody. Hope you keep having fun (a lot of the community is jaded right now, it’s good to see people still having fun and success).

I’m not really sure that the 0/0/30/25/15 is hands down better than 0/0/30/10/30 when it comes to survival.

Some things to consider when comparing these two builds:

• How does the Bountiful Hunter trait compare to Nature’s Wrath trait for damage?
• How much survivability/added damage can Fortifying Bond bring to your pet?
• How big of an impact does loosing out on the second major BM trait bring?
• 1500 more health vs 150 more healing power? 1500 more health = a bigger buffer, but loosing out on regen from the signet + lower heals/regeneration
• Survivability/damage of pets?

1) bountiful hunter is flat out better if you’re using any gear with power on it, 5%dmg > 130 power in -most- scenarios.

2) every time he dodge roles his pet gets 6s of protection, if he has perms regen so does his pet, and if he gets might hi pet mirrors that stack of might except each one lasts 10s, which can make the pet better off than the ranger in most scenarios. This -also- makes it so both he and his pet will be dishing out an extra 5% damage constantly since the first trait buffs BOTH parties, not just the ranger.

3) ATM the second major for BM is total garbage unless you’re limiting your pet variability, so he is actually not hurting himself by not avoiding the second master trait as much as he would in another tree.

4) AT MOST that 150 healing power will add 150 extra health to a heal, the 1500 health is a significantly better option if he’s not a support build, and since he doesn’t have the 25pt BM trait, healing power isn’t amazing for his build in large amounts.

5) his pet damage will be lacking big time compared to a full 30pts in BM, however survivability gained from perms port (or borderline perma) and perma regen would make his pets equally sturdy, if not sturdier than a 30pt BM pet.

After looking more closely at your build it looks REALLY solid, you’ve covered a lot of your weak points you’d get from not doing certain popular options by choosing another route. I’m not sure if I agree with your amulet choice, but it is really effective, I’m not going to lie.

The 2nd talent option for BM isn’t to bad if you use Birds, even if ya don’t though, you can use other abilities which aren’t to bad.

mighty swap/compassion training come to mind.

I personally have a harder time going past 15 points in Nature’s, in regards to giving up 10 points in Skirmishing for the 30% crit damage talent for your pet.

15 points in Natures though is viable with Power/Clerics based builds I feel.

Like I said, without limiting himself, compassion training isn’t really worth dropping a constant 5% damage boost for both the ranger and pet though, especially if he’s not using Natural Regen, a Moa, S&R, and plans -not- to be sitting on his kitten all day (downed).

Seeing as how OP is using a cat and canine there’s no trait that’d really synergies so well with the build to be worth dropping 5pts from elsewhere, I could see if he were doubling up on pets, or using 2 of the pets that fall under rending strikes, but he’s not.

Durzlla.6295:

Xsorus.2507:

Durzlla.6295:

OGDeadHead.8326:

jcbroe.4329:

No problem. The way I understand the choice to go 30 into BM is for the extra healing from Natural Healing and the 300 total points in healing. However, what many people fail to realize is that, along with not gaining much DPS on the pet overall (it is only 300 points total to each of their attributes, is isn’t doing as much as people think. Reference: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/79991-beastmastery-math-breakdown/)

Another thing they don’t realize is that with 0/0/30/25/15 you gain +15% more boon duration and +1500 health. This actually works to directly increase survival better than the 0/0/30/10/30 version.

Just food for though, I’m glad you are enjoying your build and success with everybody. Hope you keep having fun (a lot of the community is jaded right now, it’s good to see people still having fun and success).

I’m not really sure that the 0/0/30/25/15 is hands down better than 0/0/30/10/30 when it comes to survival.

Some things to consider when comparing these two builds:

• How does the Bountiful Hunter trait compare to Nature’s Wrath trait for damage?
• How much survivability/added damage can Fortifying Bond bring to your pet?
• How big of an impact does loosing out on the second major BM trait bring?
• 1500 more health vs 150 more healing power? 1500 more health = a bigger buffer, but loosing out on regen from the signet + lower heals/regeneration
• Survivability/damage of pets?

1) bountiful hunter is flat out better if you’re using any gear with power on it, 5%dmg > 130 power in -most- scenarios.

2) every time he dodge roles his pet gets 6s of protection, if he has perms regen so does his pet, and if he gets might hi pet mirrors that stack of might except each one lasts 10s, which can make the pet better off than the ranger in most scenarios. This -also- makes it so both he and his pet will be dishing out an extra 5% damage constantly since the first trait buffs BOTH parties, not just the ranger.

3) ATM the second major for BM is total garbage unless you’re limiting your pet variability, so he is actually not hurting himself by not avoiding the second master trait as much as he would in another tree.

4) AT MOST that 150 healing power will add 150 extra health to a heal, the 1500 health is a significantly better option if he’s not a support build, and since he doesn’t have the 25pt BM trait, healing power isn’t amazing for his build in large amounts.

5) his pet damage will be lacking big time compared to a full 30pts in BM, however survivability gained from perms port (or borderline perma) and perma regen would make his pets equally sturdy, if not sturdier than a 30pt BM pet.

After looking more closely at your build it looks REALLY solid, you’ve covered a lot of your weak points you’d get from not doing certain popular options by choosing another route. I’m not sure if I agree with your amulet choice, but it is really effective, I’m not going to lie.

The 2nd talent option for BM isn’t to bad if you use Birds, even if ya don’t though, you can use other abilities which aren’t to bad.

mighty swap/compassion training come to mind.

I personally have a harder time going past 15 points in Nature’s, in regards to giving up 10 points in Skirmishing for the 30% crit damage talent for your pet.

15 points in Natures though is viable with Power/Clerics based builds I feel.

Like I said, without limiting himself, compassion training isn’t really worth dropping a constant 5% damage boost for both the ranger and pet though, especially if he’s not using Natural Regen, a Moa, S&R, and plans -not- to be sitting on his kitten all day (downed).

Seeing as how OP is using a cat and canine there’s no trait that’d really synergies so well with the build to be worth dropping 5pts from elsewhere, I could see if he were doubling up on pets, or using 2 of the pets that fall under rending strikes, but he’s not.

Compassion’s isn’t to bad, I mean it’ll add to the Natural Healing line.

However if given the choice between 25 natures and 15 natures, I’d choose 15 Natures with 10 Skirmishing.

Some things to consider when comparing these two builds:

How does the Bountiful Hunter trait compare to Nature’s Wrath trait for damage?
How much survivability/added damage can Fortifying Bond bring to your pet?
How big of an impact does loosing out on the second major BM trait bring?
1500 more health vs 150 more healing power? 1500 more health = a bigger buffer, but loosing out on regen from the signet + lower heals/regeneration
Survivability/damage of pets?

To answer these questions to the best of my ability.
1. The first one is a toss up and is really based on how much power you have to begin with. I’m going to assume it is the base power + healing. I’m also going to assume the for bountiful hunter, the boon being used isn’t might since aside from the elite and the warhorn, rangers don’t really have a lot of access to might on their own. In this scenario with Shamans Gear, the 0/0/30/10/30 build does do more damage. However, I never said the 0/0/30/25/15 build outdamaged the 0/0/30/10/30 build, so I find this argument irrelevant to survival (I am aware that surviving but making no progress in a fight isn’t useful, but that is a different discussion, I was talking only survival)
2. It actually depends on the pet. There are diminishing returns in the game. A good way to see this is to add 100 power to a build that has 3k attack already versus adding 100 power to a build with only 2k attack and noticing how much the damage scales (you should see less of an increase adding to the 3k than the 2k). To put that into perspective of a pet, a pet with high power like a drake or wolf should about even out with their counterpart with 30 BM in terms of damage. High crit pets are going to benefit more because of the way crits and damage scaling work. But in general, again, the pet is going to be doing more DPS, but see above why it is irrelevant to survival.
Survival of the pet is a different story, and dependent on whether or not you are keeping constant regen on your pet with fortifying bond and healing spring/other sources or not. Crazily enough, if you are keeping constant regen on your pet, it can actually basically keep pace with the 0/0/30/10/30 build, assuming no regen is on the pet in that latter build. If it is though, then yes, the pet does have about 2xx more healing per second.
3. Depends on the pet. Again, I never made a DPS argument but rather a survival argument so this is still irrelevant. I am going to re-reference the link that answers DPS type questions: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/79991-beastmastery-math-breakdown/
4. I actually have tested this one frequently, and I performed it again just to give some fresh, hard numbers. Both tests were performed in full Dwaynas with Shamans Amulet/Jewel.
0/0/30/10/30: Regen-269 Natural Healing 133(going to divide by 3 to get heal per second) SotW-129 269+44+129 = 442 health per second.
0/0/30/25/15: Regen-250 SotW-120 250+120 = 370 health per second. You lose 72 health per second to gain 1500 health. Natural healing would have to tick 7 times to make up for the raw survivability an extra 1500 health provides. That doesn’t count the +15% boon duration the 0/0/30/25/15 also has.
4. Survival of the pets is boon dependent in the 0/0/30/25/15 build. In general though, the 0/0/30/10/30 build adds 1.5k vitality and 150 toughness to the prior build, meaning raw number wise, and for the most part in every circumstance, the pet will survive better. This still doesn’t affect player survivability though, which is the only argument I believe I made.

I hope this helps. Yes, the 0/0/30/10/30 build has higher DPS, and I don’t believe I ever claimed otherwise, but in terms of pure survival, the 0/0/30/25/15 build performs better. I wasted a glory booster(haha) doing some testing to put some numbers out, but it is all for the sake of the community, as we strive to play the best ranger we can play.

Xsorus.2507:

jcbroe.4329:

I haven’t seen this build since release month. 0/0/30/25/15 used to be a common setup and regarded as one of the better bunker style builds for rangers back in release month heading into October.
The 0/0/30/10/30 build actually evolved from some of the ideas of this build based on meta shifts. As people started building more and more towards survival, the build was not able to output enough damage fast enough. People observed that the pet could output consistently high enough damage to warrant dropping 15 in Nature Magic and adding to Beastmastery in order to maximize damage potential while retaining decent survival abilities.
I’m not really sure as to why the thread immediately received so much hate. I also think it’s humorous that people immediately attacked a build with their opinions without knowing the first thing about the build.
I’m not going to sift through every thread to find every reference, but a few quick ones:

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/68735-tpvp-ranger-pov-taking-suggestions-build-00302515/

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/69115-looking-for-survivability-shortsword-torch-build/

If you read these, remember what dates they were posted and at what point the community mindsets were at when the discussions were happening. There isn’t much to them, but it was at a point where trap builds were regarded as the only competitively viable build (the community mindset hasn’t really changed that much then, has it haha).

I couldn’t even find a thread were 0/0/30/10/30 existed during those dates, so I’m sticking to the idea that it evolved from the original 0/0/30/25/15 build. Which does not at all translate to one being more viable than the other by the way, as the evolution took place with a changing metagame and community.
Regardless, the build was an evasion tank/bunker then, and should function the same, if not better now that we have explored trait/sigil/rune/weapon options more thoroughly.

I believe I was the first person to come up with the 0/0/30/10/30 build.

I made sure to check back in old threads to find someone using it before November when i developed it, i could not (but that doesn’t mean someone wasn’t using it)

As for evolving it from the /0/0/30/25/15 build.

Not really, the way I evolved it was simple.

I use to use 0/30/10/0/30 as a Shortbow ranger

After the shortbow nerf, I decided to try out new weapon sets, and decided on Axe/Torch with Sword/Dagger after looking at Pain Inverter, I actually used close to the same setup now in terms of Skills (signet of wild/lightning/PI)

The reason I dropped the 20 points in Skirmishing for WS is I wanted to be beefy and I wanted Barkskin at the time as well (I was using Superior Rune of Hoelbrek at the time, because once you hit 20% life or whatever, you became a block of ice, I learned that you could pop QZ at the time and your pet would kill a thief standing next to you)

Eventually I read that EB actually removed all conditions so I dropped Barkskin.

At the time I was using a combination of Rabid Gear and Carrion Gear.

and using 0/10/30/0/30

I adopted 0/0/30/10/30 when Apothecary came out as a gear set, as I wanted more healing at the time.

That’s how that spec got developed.

This is one of the first posts I actually made on the build

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Thoughts-on-my-World-vs-World-Ranger-Build-i-ve-been-running/first#post608398

As you can see, I was using 0/10/30/0/30 at the time, because Apothecary was like 1-2 weeks away

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Anyone-else-tempted-to-get-Apoth-Gear/first#post812400

This is the first post I made about the idea of 0/0/30/10/30

Sorry, I didn’t mean this as a literal one came from the other type thing. I just meant that at some point, somebody made a bunker/tank out of a 0/0/30/25/15 that was part of the metagame for awhile, but then as the community and meta evolved, the build no longer worked with the meta/community. Then, your build came along with a similar playstyle to the previous one with similar player tactics, damage source, and weapon choice, but performing in areas that the first one lacked performance in, and so now the 0/0/30/10/30 is replacing the prior build.
I only meant to say that idealistically, one evolved from the other, not literally.

[/quote]
Sorry, I didn’t mean this as a literal one came from the other type thing. I just meant that at some point, somebody made a bunker/tank out of a 0/0/30/25/15 that was part of the metagame for awhile, but then as the community and meta evolved, the build no longer worked with the meta/community. Then, your build came along with a similar playstyle to the previous one with similar player tactics, damage source, and weapon choice, but performing in areas that the first one lacked performance in, and so now the 0/0/30/10/30 is replacing the prior build.
I only meant to say that idealistically, one evolved from the other, not literally.
[/quote]

Ahh, yea was just offering my insight into how I came up with it.

I don’t think 0/0/30/25/15 is a bad build, i think it could still work with Clerics armor quite easily. If Apothecary didn’t exist i’d probably run something similar to it myself.

I’m still not completely sold on 25 vs 15 and 10 in skirmishing…(Unless you used birds, I must stress that, if you use Birds then 25 is certainly better)

But yea, That build is certainly a bunker build and it did come along before the current condition based one, as Shamans wasn’t available in PVE yet as Apothecary.

jcbroe.4329:

There are diminishing returns in the game. A good way to see this is to add 100 power to a build that has 3k attack already versus adding 100 power to a build with only 2k attack and noticing how much the damage scales (you should see less of an increase adding to the 3k than the 2k).

This is incorrect. There are no diminishing returns to adding Power in GW2.

Power to damage is a set ratio according to Anet’s published equation:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage

“Base direct damage is given by the following equation:
Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)”

The LACK of diminishing returns specifically related to power has been discussed on multiple threads such as this one:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/I-think-we-might-need-Diminishing-Returns

“Going from 1000 Power to 2000 Power will double your DPS, and going to 3000 Power will increase it again by the same amount.”

Power of course does not increase the condition portion of those skills/weapons that do both direct damage and condition damage (condition damage is determined by another equation which does not contain power as a variable).

jcbroe.4329:

However, what many people fail to realize is that, along with not gaining much DPS on the pet overall (it is only 300 points total to each of their attributes, is isn’t doing as much as people think. Reference: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/79991-beastmastery-math-breakdown/)

Thanks for the info, I love seeing the actual figures, and often wish the game itself made this info readily available.
So in terms of damage, you get ~+12-14% pet damage for pets with 0/0/30/10/30 but plus 5% damage for you with 0/0/30/25/15. The trade-off is actually better than I thought, especially since my pets are only responsible for 30-40% of my total damage.

jcbroe.4329:

Another thing they don’t realize is that with 0/0/30/25/15 you gain +15% more boon duration and +1500 health. This actually works to directly increase survival better than the 0/0/30/10/30 version.

This is very true! I’ve been duelling with an Engi who uses a hundred nades burst setup – we tested it, and his burst does 15k damage if I take the full hit, so with 15k base ranger health that’s the difference between a 1-shot and a chance to recover, if the whole thing lands.

OGDeadHead.8326:

Some things to consider when comparing these two builds:

• How does the Bountiful Hunter trait compare to Nature’s Wrath trait for damage?
• How much survivability/added damage can Fortifying Bond bring to your pet?
• How big of an impact does loosing out on the second major BM trait bring?
• 1500 more health vs 150 more healing power? 1500 more health = a bigger buffer, but loosing out on regen from the signet + lower heals/regeneration
• Survivability/damage of pets?

Thanks for the response, I definitely take these factors into account, some (1, 4 + 5b) are explored above, as for the rest:

1. I believe bountiful hunter is superior to nature’s wrath for my build as I’m condition-based, so power is less important.

2. Fortifying bond doesn’t add much damage to pet unless you’re running RaO in which case it doubles it’s might, and that is actually really good. In terms of survivability, your pet, like you will have permanent regeneration from fortifying bond, 229 per second, compared to 125 of natural healing. However your pet will still have some regen (229) with 0/0/30/10/30 if it’s in the radius of healing spring, but it doesn’t compare with permanent regen really.

3. Depends on which pets you use, I tend not to use 2 of the same kind with the exception of canines and I find the cripple on activate trait to be lacklustre or even a disadvantage in some situations with wolf fear.

5. As for the overall survivability of pets, I’d say it is slightly worse overall – they have better health regen, but less toughness/hp, but they also get 33% damage reduction for double the time whenever you dodge. While tehy can die now and again in some duel match-ups if they’re focussed (intentionally or accidentally) it’s very, very rare and usually the enemy comes off worse because of it.

Since writing this, I’ve read through the other responses, and others have answered this better than me, but hey it’s written now, and this was my thought process/opinions ^.

Jazenn.7526:

A question, how do the leeching sigils work out for you? I know a few people that use them, are they a big help? Have you tried energy, or do you find yourself with plenty of dodges? Because that is usually what I go for.

I really like these sigils, i basically see it as ~ 100 health per second regen. One thing i often forget to factor in, but should really be mindful of is their 10 second cooldown vs 8 second cooldown on weapon swap, so it may be advisable to wait the extra 2 seconds before swapping, rather than swapping as soon as it’s available – so you get it procing every 10 seconds rather than every 16.

I have tried energy, i love them, you can never have too much energy XD but i prefer sigils of leeching, don’t know which is actually be better – would likely depend heavily on what class you’re up against, more dodges vs burst builds, but leeching is great vs other bunkers which i find to be the tougher opponents anyway, because it’s flat damage (475 i think) no matter their toughness, and an extra, decent source of healing to me which matters more since i have pretty-much maximum toughness, so the 1k health will take longer to whittle back down off me.

Thanks for the positive feedback all, as well as the food for thought. I would love to have the 0/0/30/10/30 and the 0/0/30/25/15 builds pitted against each other in duels somehow – if each player has a few duels with each set-up, then player skill should get cancelled out somewhat as a variable.

glock.2089:

jcbroe.4329:

There are diminishing returns in the game. A good way to see this is to add 100 power to a build that has 3k attack already versus adding 100 power to a build with only 2k attack and noticing how much the damage scales (you should see less of an increase adding to the 3k than the 2k).

This is incorrect. There are no diminishing returns to adding Power in GW2.

Power to damage is a set ratio according to Anet’s published equation:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage

“Base direct damage is given by the following equation:
Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)”

The LACK of diminishing returns specifically related to power has been discussed on multiple threads such as this one:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/I-think-we-might-need-Diminishing-Returns

“Going from 1000 Power to 2000 Power will double your DPS, and going to 3000 Power will increase it again by the same amount.”

Power of course does not increase the condition portion of those skills/weapons that do both direct damage and condition damage (condition damage is determined by another equation which does not contain power as a variable).

I only know what I can test, and there is a chance I might be testing it wrong, or with not enough data points.
But what I’m doing to get the result I’m about to post at the end is this:
(I am not using a steady weapon because it can not reach the 3k attack range)
So, because I am not using a steady weapon, I am taking the average of 10 non-critical hits and am averaging them together. Then I add 100 power and repeat the process. I did this for 2k to 2.1k attack and for 3k to 3.1k attack.
2k average: 175.7
2.1k average: 187.3
difference: 11.6
3k average: 301.4
3.1k average: 310.8
difference: 9.4
I have repeated this test numerous times. Sometimes I get a variance closer to 1 and sometimes I get a variance closer to 3. Overall though, this seems to be a consistent pattern.
I also tested what you quoted: “Going from 1000 Power to 2000 Power will double your DPS, and going to 3000 Power will increase it again by the same amount.”
You can see the above being tested with a doubled attack rating. So that first:
2k: 175.7 * 2 = 351.4 != 3k: 301.4
But onto power, since that is specifically what it is quoting. Result:
1k power average: 184.8
2k power average: 331.6
184.8 * 2 = 369.6 != 331.6
I tested this multiple times to the same or similar effect, never really seeing a much closer difference than 30 damage.
I’m not able to reach 3k power in pvp so I’m unable to test that range, though I already disproved the quote using a logical argument form( p = doubling power, q = doubling DPS;
p → q (p implies q) given,
~q (not q; shown),
therefore: ~p (not p; modus tollens))

So, while testing diminishing returns definitely didn’t return a large enough variance to conclusively determine whether or not it exists in the scaling of power, I have definitely been able to test and conclude that doubling your power does not double your DPS. If I was able to test from 2k power to 3k power, I would be able to give a more conclusive result on whether there is diminishing returns by comparing the differences of the increases to DPS.

Nobody has to believe me even though I tested and retested over and over. If I had a video recording device and a youtube channel (which I don’t wish to make) I would definitely upload all the testing I do all the time so that I could just link videos and not waste forum space with this stuff.
But anybody else is more than welcome to do their own testing and bring their own results to the table. I just wanted to show that I was speaking from a place of observation as opposed to opinion.

Almost only play tpvp now, and i realy like 0/0/15/25/30 with Clerics amulet and Dwayna Runes, spirit elite (if you trait it you can pull of res 95% of the time) 4 res and extra healing, using jaguar and moa bird as pets.

Sansar.1302:

Almost only play tpvp now, and i realy like 0/0/15/25/30 with Clerics amulet and Dwayna Runes, spirit elite (if you trait it you can pull of res 95% of the time) 4 res and extra healing, using jaguar and moa bird as pets.

interesting, how do you handle condition removal though? i know spirit can wipe them every 30 seconds on-demand, but it’s only up for 1/4 of the time, and even that is significantly lower than every 10 seconds

Wanderer.5471:

Sansar.1302:

Almost only play tpvp now, and i realy like 0/0/15/25/30 with Clerics amulet and Dwayna Runes, spirit elite (if you trait it you can pull of res 95% of the time) 4 res and extra healing, using jaguar and moa bird as pets.

interesting, how do you handle condition removal though? i know spirit can wipe them every 30 seconds on-demand, but it’s only up for 1/4 of the time, and even that is significantly lower than every 10 seconds

The healing springe clears 1 too, and got permanent regen at about 5k per 3 sec, and leap finisher from gs, the moa heals 4 alot too. So its the heals that mainly carries me true it.

Sansar.1302:

Wanderer.5471:

Sansar.1302:

Almost only play tpvp now, and i realy like 0/0/15/25/30 with Clerics amulet and Dwayna Runes, spirit elite (if you trait it you can pull of res 95% of the time) 4 res and extra healing, using jaguar and moa bird as pets.

interesting, how do you handle condition removal though? i know spirit can wipe them every 30 seconds on-demand, but it’s only up for 1/4 of the time, and even that is significantly lower than every 10 seconds

The healing springe clears 1 too, and got permanent regen at about 5k per 3 sec, and leap finisher from gs, the moa heals 4 alot too. So its the heals that mainly carries me true it.

You must be reading that wrong, no way are you getting 5k healing every 3 seconds from regen alone, that would be 5k heals from regen for the full duration of the healing spring regen not every 3 seconds, I have a set with alot of healing and it ticks for about 250h/s or something similar on regen.

Been thesting again, by stakking regen from healing spring until i got about a 50 sec then engage boss mob trial in the mist until i hadde 10k left then used pet to take agro while i reggened and its a about 4k to 4,5k in 3 sec as far as i can see.
last tests where with signet of the wild so they where a bit higer ofc

Sansar.1302:

Been thesting again, by stakking regen from healing spring until i got about a 50 sec then engage boss mob trial in the mist until i hadde 10k left then used pet to take agro while i reggened and its a about 4k to 4,5k in 3 sec as far as i can see.
last tests where with signet of the wild so they where a bit higer ofc

Signet of the wild ticks for 130- 140 or something similar when I put on gear with about 900 healing power, the ticks from regen are 250 or so, to me it seems virtually impossible to reach even 2k every 3 seconds you’re saying you get 5k then 4k-4,5k no way just no.

you know that reg tics way faster than 1 per sec ?

I like your Build, but i see a some small flaws in this Build even if you leave it as it is (i would go 0/0/30/20/20).
Here is what “must” be change to make this Build even better:
I would reccoment to pick “Sigil of Superior Energy” for each weapon. I think this is a must have and is far better then 5% more dmg.

For a Duell Build there is no need for Signet of Hunt , Signet of Renawl will perform better in a Duell.

Here is what i would change:
I would choose IV over VII in Wildness Survial, because near perma vigor would be awsome to be unbeatable.

And i would choose 2 wather 2 earth and 2 Monk Runes for the Armor.

Change the Specct to 0/0/30/20/20 and pick X in the BM tree with Black Raven and Owl.

guys, this build is really strong.
i’ve seen him beat rank 48 mesmers with this kitten and i’d love to see if u’d even had the slightest chance fighting him in a 1v1…

Nischana.2036:

I like your Build, but i see a some small flaws in this Build even if you leave it as it is (i would go 0/0/30/20/20).
Here is what “must” be change to make this Build even better:
I would reccoment to pick “Sigil of Superior Energy” for each weapon. I think this is a must have and is far better then 5% more dmg.

For a Duell Build there is no need for Signet of Hunt , Signet of Renewal will perform better in a Duell.

Here is what i would change:
I would choose IV over VII in Wildness Survial, because near perma vigor would be awsome to be unbeatable.

And i would choose 2 wather 2 earth and 2 Monk Runes for the Armor.

Change the Specct to 0/0/30/20/20 and pick X in the BM tree with Black Raven and Owl.

Hey, some interesting suggestions. As for the sigil of superior energy, i agree they would me much better than sigils of force, but i can’t swap them out as they share a cooldown with sigils of leeching (my preferences for leeching are explored above).

Signet of the hunt is very important in a duel as it significantly increases the pet’s dps against moving targets, and i have been known to pop it now and again for bird f2s to burst someone down and end the duel (risky though). Signet of renewal passive is redundant because i have empathic bond, and if you need the active to save you then you’re screwed anyway because it would be a one-time save, if they got you in a position where you needed it once, they could do it again, and with a 60 second CD on the active you won’t be able to use it the second time.

I actually used to run IV instead of VI in wilderness survival, but vigor doesn’t stack that well with the first minor trait (+50% endurance regen). You do see some improvement but nothing game-changing, you have to time it to notice. This is the same reason X in BM is a bit lackluster imo.

The 25 minor trait in NM is nice for the flat 5% dmg boost to myself and pet – according to the numbers linked to by jcroe, 5 points in BM will actually provide less of a boost to pet dmg (3-4%) and of course i benefit from the 5% dmg boost from 25 NM too.

As for maximising boon duration, it’s a nice idea – i tried it once on a group support build i made, but for this build, the extra condition damage from undead is crucial for you to be a credible threat, sometimes it’s still not enough and you have to switch to Rabid amulet vs certain bunkers.

I’m glad you like my build, and i hope you don’t think i’m just looking to shoot down your suggestions because a lot of your ideas have sound theory-crafting behind them, and are even what i used to run! However, my current incarnation has evolved through vigorous testing and i believe for the reasons stated above it is better for it. However i am still very much open to suggestions, and would never say that it’s truly optimal!

Hey Skrill! thanks for adding credence to my words! See people, i wasn’t making it up XD

I would prefer energy cause of the longer Protection Uptime. But are you really sure that 2 different weapon swap sigil share cds ?

As for Signet of Hunt i get your point, i struggel here for my defensiv Build because 2 Conditions every 10 sec is extrem nice and Bunker speccs normaly have problemes with Condition speccts. I guess so passive should stac.

But for WvWvW i what the runspeed, @the moment i switch one weapon to horn in W3 for speed buff and switch back, so i can roam faster.
Birds can buff Speed so you should consinder that they have 33% Runspeed very often.

The Problem with the 50% endurance reg is a very nice hint i didet consinder this so vigor is only half good for this specct.
With this i would maybe specct 5 into speed from weapon swap to get perma runspeed in a fight.

Jea i have done some thinking of my own and testing as well.

I came up with 2 new builds:
this one:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQRAnY8fjEV91JWWWoWCi2DOZeMxF8PkenC/PqLuKpK;TwAg2Cro2x4lwLbXudkdt+Y8xugZBA

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNAsYRjEV91JWWWgWCi2DOZJMxF8PkenC/7pLuKpK;TwAgzCmo2x4lwLbXudkdt+Y8xugZBA

The Condition version should be doing more dmg on the paper but yea..good opponents normaly have tons of condition removal.
And GS + Sword are to leap finishers for the Combofield for even more healing.
If you dont mind i would like to hear why you choose condition dmg over power dmg.

i think there is no need for credence, everyone with half of a brain would see that your build cant be killed in 1v1 cause its even more defensiv than a normal BM Build.
So you can only win duells or let them end in a draw.

I too run 0/0/30/25/15 on my Ranger, although I opt for a physical variant with Greatsword, with PTV Armor, Dolyak Runes, and Knight’s Accessories.

3k Power, 3200 Armor, 21k hp, and a pet who attacks for 1400-1800 is nothing to laugh at, especially when I have a Chill, a Stun, a knockback, two knockdowns, an AoE fear, and an AoE root.

Properly timed CCs to interrupt heals are devastating.

I feel like Rangers make some of the best defensive builds, because the damage that comes from our pets doesn’t diminish for us beefing up.

For those looking for something to read:

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/66729-how-to-be-a-great-greatsword-ranger/

Sansar.1302:

you know that reg tics way faster than 1 per sec ?

Source?

*

According to wiki, the forumula for regeneration is:

5 + (1.5625 * Level) + (0.125 * Healing Power) per second

At level 80 this is:
130 + (0.125 * Healing Power) per second

So with 1000 healing power:

130 + (0.125 * 1000) = 255 health/second

Unfortunately i am sure about the sigil cooldowns. I like your thinking on the protection up-time with extra dodges, another good thing about that vs leeching sigils is leeching can miss whereas you always get the extra energy – i may have to try them again.

As for sigil of renewal + empathic bond. Empathic bond removes all conditions, not just one so there is no need to stack. Unless they can be staggered in some way? e.g:

all conditions removed (empathic bond)
5 seconds later: 1 condition removed (signet of renewal)
5 seconds later: all conditions removed (empathic bond)
5 seconds later: 1 condition removed (signet of renewal)
5 seconds later: all conditions removed (empathic bond)
etc etc.

This would be amazing if it could be done, i’m gonna do some testing for this, i wonder how the timer works – does it go from when you slot the skill? or enter combat? or first condition? etc etc. Does it reset when you log out? (probably).

If you are using a bird the 33% speed buff would be up quite often but not for the other pet you use (unless you’re using two birds) so i prefer hunt to that scenario. As for the swiftness on weapon swap – that would likely be 100% up-tine, but i’m loathe to part with the 5% damage boost from 25NM – especially since you get 5% boon duration and some vitality too, whereas +crit chance and +crit damage is meaningless in such a small amount, you just have to spend them to get the trait.

Yeah the vigor thing sucks, it works out even worse than half as good really if you have the +50% minor trait, using vigor only gives you +33% compared to the usual +100% endurance regen.

Both your builds seem strong, but i’d say that the condition one is better imo because direct dmg for rangers will always be so low compared to other classes. And of course +33% mov speed will result in higher pet dps than my build’s +25%, but will it increase by 5% or more? Because that is what my pet gets for 25 NM, plus the ranger gets it too for me whereas the player’s dps doesn’t bennefit much if at all from run speed.

Your build needs the swiftness of course because you’re not using the signet of the hunt, but i think renewal is fairly redundant unless it can be staggered, so a lot hinges on that testing really.

Basically your build has more dodge (from sigils), more protection (from more dodge, and from runes), mine has more damage (~10% more condition dmg from runes, and 475 flat dmg from sigil procs every 10 secs) and a little more healing (1000 per 10 secs from sigils). In terms of dueling, i never really have a problem surviving, it’s only tank vs tank where sometimes you need the extra dmg so i think i’ll stick to my set-up.

However, i will be looking into the signet of renewal stagger-testing, it could be epic.

OGDeadHead.8326:

Sansar.1302:

you know that reg tics way faster than 1 per sec ?

Source?

*

According to wiki, the forumula for regeneration is:

5 + (1.5625 * Level) + (0.125 * Healing Power) per second

At level 80 this is:
130 + (0.125 * Healing Power) per second

So with 1000 healing power:

130 + (0.125 * 1000) = 255 health/second

Your math is correct but I think the wiki may be wrong. I am getting around 350 health per second with 620 healing power…