Guild Wars 2

Since longbow doesn’t have much in the way kiting tools, would sigil of ice be worth it to help in this? or is the 2/10 uptime not worth it?

This is my post from another thread in response to someone talking about Sigil of ice on a longbow:

Slap on a Sigil of chilling and grab a frost trap as well, use your Knock Back just as they’re about to clear to trap so you get Ice Bolt finisher + push them back into the trap and then hunters shot for another ice bolt finisher and reposition as your pet tears them to shreds as they crawl towards you….
Also, pro tip, if you drop frost trap in stealth they can neither hear nor see the animation so you can set it up very easily and effortlessly.
If you’re feeling especially kitteny I’d also consider taking malicious training + an Owl paired with either an arctic wolf, polar bear, or snow leopard.
I’ve done this pre patch (minus Sigil of chilling) and it worked beautifully, pair this with Runes of Ice and you’ve got +7% damage vs chilled targets + more chill duration and more chill.
Happy Hunting my frost archers!!
PS: no traits are needed for the frost trap to be useful as long as you positions yourself and the trap well and abuse the trap while it’s up.
TRICK: place the trap away from them (so they won’t trigger it) and then lure them to it when the trap is off CD and double trap them, works best with Trappers Expertise so you can throw it so it overlaps with the previous one so they have to run through both to get to you.

Durz’s post was in response to me saying I liked Ice on the LB. My WvW roaming build is based around CC, and adding that much extra CC is a big boon to me. It really is a lot of chill. I wouldn’t want to roam with a LB using only Ice as my CC/defense, though.

Fluffball.8307:

Durz’s post was in response to me saying I liked Ice on the LB. My WvW roaming build is based around CC, and adding that much extra CC is a big boon to me. It really is a lot of chill. I wouldn’t want to roam with a LB using only Ice as my CC/defense, though.

I normally pair it with MT and LR

Ditto, as well as drakehound, wolf and entangle. It’s a bunch of streams that make a river.

I imagine it’s a good choice to allow which allows you to chase people. Since latest patch it may work pretty well b/c of guaranteed proc in theory on one of your first two shots, increasing the time frame taking your opponent to dump your kiting and hop into melee.

Frost trap can work and I’ve tested it but… You know, in theory it’s all cool and working, but the sad truth is, the real power of traps come from the fact that you can throw two of each if you precast and prepare. It’s rarely the case when you roam.

Also, keep in mind that this Frost Trap takes place as a utility, reducing your amount of stunbreaks into 1 (L. Reflex, Anguish maybe). I find Protect Me! just better as it can neglate the opening burst for a while, you may also sacrafice QZ.

And taking chilling pets only for their chill like polar bear (lol) is.. Well… Not really threating. I’d take that Web of spiders or 10% uptime AoE immobilize of the hound anytime.

I accidentally just took a LB with sigil of ice in to PvP (the PvP build automatically using your PvE weapon is seriously kittening me off.) It worked surprisingly well; I was fortunate enough to be on Foefire and could freeze people from the cliff as a form of team support, despite the fact I was on LB with zero in power.

i have it and its ok for catching strugglers.

I was thinking of getting Sigil of Ice together with Predator’s Instinct trait, but I’m using Sigil of Air + Sigil of Fire for now.

Predator’s Instinct is a wasted slot. No cripple will last for full 10-10+x seconds on a target that’s not a mob or dumb. If it did, then you would win anyway.

To make it viable, Predator’s should’ve been 3 second cripple on 10 second cooldown either triggering when foe is closer than certain range or below 75%.

i found sigil of ice + sigil of frailty to be very nice in conjunction with a shortbow… especially if running BM bunker as it helps and “increases” pet damage.

Prysin.8542:

i found sigil of ice + sigil of frailty to be very nice in conjunction with a shortbow… especially if running BM bunker as it helps and “increases” pet damage.

in WvW i use to do this as well, also using ghost pepper poppers at night also helps

I kind of don’t like it for the same reason I don’t like Predator’s Instinct.

I really don’t feel like Longbow can stand on it’s own two feet,
and you can either force the issue of self sufficiency with snare mods or embrace the 2+v1 scenario prerequisite and go in a more glass direction. To me, trying to go in the snare direction always ends up feeling like a mess of frustrating half-measures that never quite makes a whole, while going the glass direction is admittedly obnoxiously niche but works well in those few moments where the planets align.

But, I guess, so long as you’re enjoying yourself it’s the right thing to do.

Rym.1469:

Predator’s Instinct is a wasted slot. No cripple will last for full 10-10+x seconds on a target that’s not a mob or dumb. If it did, then you would win anyway.

It’s very useful in WvW to prevent people from running away. I like it so much that I gladly drop the 10% damage for it. It goes really well with Read the Wind + Eagle Eye, because they makes single hits so much more reliable. Also Sigil of Fire + Sigil of Air to burst them below 50% faster.

I’m quite curious to try Sigil of Air + Sigil of Ice + Predator’s Insinct trait. I had to drop Piercing Arrows in favor of Read the Wind, so I might as well drop Sigil of Fire as well and go full focus on single-target instead of having some AoE.

Flat damage is nice, but these conditions do offer quite some utility.

I played with a frost archer build in high hopes that it will be awesome using the 6/0/2/6/0 build.

But my reaction is the opposite when I played the build. It does very low damage, but I expected it anyways. But, the control side of the frost archer build is awful as well. I expected it to be 4 seconds of chill for every 10 second. However, The frost proc chance is low and not worth it. If ANet buffed it to 50%-80% chance then the frost archer build might still work.

Krytan Drakehound, Muddy Terrain, and Barrage is enough and way stronger for snaring than frost arrows.

Eggyokeo.9705:

Prysin.8542:

i found sigil of ice + sigil of frailty to be very nice in conjunction with a shortbow… especially if running BM bunker as it helps and “increases” pet damage.

in WvW i use to do this as well, also using ghost pepper poppers at night also helps

This.

If the food offers you something better than your sigil or trait, that’s a garbage sigil or trait. Don’t use it.

People who try to kite with ice on the LB are completely missing the point.

The reason why people have asked for cripple on LB is for the chance to take subsequent meaningful shots. e.g. able to take more than 1 shot at 1k+ range, because that’s where the killzone is for the LB.

Ice sigil will not give you that reliably at 10 second ICD. Predator’s instinct will not give you that at all with the 50% HP requirement.

Think about it for a minute. Putting ice on LB is working under the assumption that the person won’t dodge your initial 1k range shot, they won’t have aegis, or that your sigil will actually proc. It’s not worth it.

If you’re trying to kite with ice at sub 1k range with the LB, you might as well just spam the SB as that has way more synergy with ice because the high ROF on the AA gives you more chances to proc, and you don’t have a range penalty.

Air and Fire is the only combo that makes sense on LB. I can proc both sigil twice before you proc ice for the second time. With the current range penalty and lack of real 1k range CC, you should try to max out your damage and not try to kite.

That log was on a thief who wasn’t even running full glass.

Aridia.3042:

Think about it for a minute. Putting ice on LB is working under the assumption that the person won’t dodge your initial 1k range shot, they won’t have aegis, or that your sigil will actually proc. It’s not worth it.

Using only SoI as your CC is ridiculous, that would never work for kiting.

My LB build (and many others I’m sure, it’s nothing interesting) is built around CC. It works without the SoI, so adding it in is just an added benefit. The ghost poppers are an interesting food for a pure bow ranger, but I need vitality food because eventually I wind up in melee. Either the opponent is good and I can’t lock them down enough, or I’m winning and want to switch to melee to finish them off.

If ghost pepper poppers are super cheap I might pick some up when facing necros though. I never melee those or I asplode.

I guess my point is, I want to have several layers of defense. More damage is rarely the answer. I already have plenty, and if that damage doesn’t do the trick, I want several other options.

Fluffball.8307:

Aridia.3042:

Think about it for a minute. Putting ice on LB is working under the assumption that the person won’t dodge your initial 1k range shot, they won’t have aegis, or that your sigil will actually proc. It’s not worth it.

Using only SoI as your CC is ridiculous, that would never work for kiting.

My LB build (and many others I’m sure, it’s nothing interesting) is built around CC. It works without the SoI, so adding it in is just an added benefit. The ghost poppers are an interesting food for a pure bow ranger, but I need vitality food because eventually I wind up in melee. Either the opponent is good and I can’t lock them down enough, or I’m winning and want to switch to melee to finish them off.

If ghost pepper poppers are super cheap I might pick some up when facing necros though. I never melee those or I asplode.

I guess my point is, I want to have several layers of defense. More damage is rarely the answer. I already have plenty, and if that damage doesn’t do the trick, I want several other options.

Again, this is a flawed metric.

That kind of kiting is a waste of time. If your goal is merely to keep the target away from you, LB is not the weapon to use because of its broken design. You should be using SB if that’s what you’re doing since you’re being penalized on the sub 1k. range. You can run sigil of ice, spider/wolf, frost trap/muddy terrain, predator’s instinct and you still won’t keep the target at 1k range, so why bother?

You’re more likely to flat out kill the target with Air and Fire instead of trying to kite him with sub optimal damage.

I don’t use LB to “kite”, I use the CC to take as much health as possible off until we inevitably get in to melee range. (On the other hand, many classes such as engies or necros choose to stay at range, and they find out too late that the range, damage, and CC doesn’t favor them.) I don’t really buy that you can stay at SB range either. I run a SB in PvP and I do a decent job kiting, but I’m getting the hell whacked out of me at the same time.

For me, I don’t want more damage, I want more layers. I’m running full glass cannon; I can already kill, I need other options.

You won’t outright kill with damage too many people before they attack you.

Also, although I consider it my primary weapon in that if possible I switch to it, I only use LB as support in most cases. Edit to add, LB is just plain superior when fighting thieves. SB offers almost nothing while skills 2-5 on a LB offer pure thief fighting abilities.

Prysin.8542:

i found sigil of ice + sigil of frailty to be very nice in conjunction with a shortbow… especially if running BM bunker as it helps and “increases” pet damage.

This is exactly what I’m doing. I’m running the “Guard” spam build, so my cats (Snow Leopard + Lynx) are stealthed most of the time. My theory is that Frailty is not only BM friendly, but also group friendly, since it improves damage (via Vulnerability) from all sources. I might try Snow Leopard + Owl for another chill but the cats really seem to be hitting/sticking to targets and responding when I press F2, which some pets still don’t seem to do well. The birds drive me crazy the way they still fiddle-fart around so much between attacks, even when I press F2, and they don’t re-apply vulnerability as often as the cats do, but I need to test more with them, because I know when they do hit, it’s hard.

slingblade.1437:

Prysin.8542:

i found sigil of ice + sigil of frailty to be very nice in conjunction with a shortbow… especially if running BM bunker as it helps and “increases” pet damage.

This is exactly what I’m doing. I’m running the “Guard” spam build, so my cats (Snow Leopard + Lynx) are stealthed most of the time. My theory is that Frailty is not only BM friendly, but also group friendly, since it improves damage (via Vulnerability) from all sources. I might try Snow Leopard + Owl for another chill but the cats really seem to be hitting/sticking to targets and responding when I press F2, which some pets still don’t seem to do well. The birds drive me crazy the way they still fiddle-fart around so much between attacks, even when I press F2, and they don’t re-apply vulnerability as often as the cats do, but I need to test more with them, because I know when they do hit, it’s hard.

instead of birds, try drakes… if you can get a grasp of how long it is inbetween tail swipes, then man, once you “learn the pattern” to them bursts and CC accordingly… it hurts a lot….

i used to like birds, especially the owl. Now that they “fixed” the owl. its kinda useless. If you want epic CC though, Alpine Wolf with Intimidation training… cripple + chill closely followed up by a knockdown is just too good to pass on.

I tried Ice today. It was alright in small scale battles and to annoy those who try to run away, but I would really suggest to go full damage with Fire + Air. The difference is noticeable. (for full Berserker builds at least).

Also, I said I was using Predator’s Instinct before, but I went back to Steady Focus. Basically for the same reason.

That said, I would say they’re both viable in small battles, but it’s probably not the best choice overall.

Holland.9351:

I tried Ice today. It was alright in small scale battles and to annoy those who try to run away, but I would really suggest to go full damage with Fire + Air. The difference is noticeable. (for full Berserker builds at least).

Also, I said I was using Predator’s Instinct before, but I went back to Steady Focus. Basically for the same reason.

That said, I would say they’re both viable in small battles, but it’s probably not the best choice overall.

How did you get to the “Alright?”

It is awful. You lose damage for chill that barely procs.

runeblade.7514:

It is awful. You lose damage for chill that barely procs.

If you’re running full berserkers, which a lot of people aren’t (presumably you) you don’t need any more random damage. You can use some CC though. If you’re running full knights or something I can see why you’d need more damge. It’s situational.

I also find it hysterical that people are telling people who are using it live in WvW that it doesn’t work. You can make that argument in PvE, you can’t make that argument in competitive.

Oh, sorry if it wasn’t clear. Yeah, I was writing from a Wubwub perspective. I’d never try something like this in a dungeon.

Fluffball.8307:

runeblade.7514:

It is awful. You lose damage for chill that barely procs.

If you’re running full berserkers, which a lot of people aren’t (presumably you) you don’t need any more random damage. You can use some CC though. If you’re running full knights or something I can see why you’d need more damge. It’s situational.

I also find it hysterical that people are telling people who are using it live in WvW that it doesn’t work. You can make that argument in PvE, you can’t make that argument in competitive.

Your assumption is wrong. I am running full zerker. Still, the damage is awful. I am trading damage for a snare that barely works.

You should stop making unbased assumption.

Wow, thanks for all the responses, never thought this thread would last this long.
In summary it seems that my suggestion does work, has been done, but is a a work around to a feature/ability that longbow should have be default.

So if longbow #1 was changed to regular shot>crippling>shot>power shot the longbow would be in a better place.

ChillyChinaman.6057:

Wow, thanks for all the responses, never thought this thread would last this long.
In summary it seems that my suggestion does work, has been done, but is a a work around to a feature/ability that longbow should have be default.

So if longbow #1 was changed to regular shot>crippling>shot>power shot the longbow would be in a better place.

No, if anything they could scrap Rapid Fire and implement an “Ice Shot” ability that does damage, chills, and vulns and is used to keep them at bay, instead of rapid fire which just confused players into thinking it’s a damage increase.

Durzlla.6295:

ChillyChinaman.6057:

Wow, thanks for all the responses, never thought this thread would last this long.
In summary it seems that my suggestion does work, has been done, but is a a work around to a feature/ability that longbow should have be default.

So if longbow #1 was changed to regular shot>crippling>shot>power shot the longbow would be in a better place.

No, if anything they could scrap Rapid Fire and implement an “Ice Shot” ability that does damage, chills, and vulns and is used to keep them at bay, instead of rapid fire which just confused players into thinking it’s a damage increase.

Yep, when you think you are hitting for 4-10k per rapid fire shot it appears that way.

Forzani.2584:

Durzlla.6295:

ChillyChinaman.6057:

Wow, thanks for all the responses, never thought this thread would last this long.
In summary it seems that my suggestion does work, has been done, but is a a work around to a feature/ability that longbow should have be default.

So if longbow #1 was changed to regular shot>crippling>shot>power shot the longbow would be in a better place.

No, if anything they could scrap Rapid Fire and implement an “Ice Shot” ability that does damage, chills, and vulns and is used to keep them at bay, instead of rapid fire which just confused players into thinking it’s a damage increase.

Yep, when you think you are hitting for 4-10k per rapid fire shot it appears that way.

Not per shot, that’s total, but it flashes up (adding the damage) everytime an arrow hits during rapid fire making it look like it’s dealing a big chunk in damage, yet if you were at far range then you’re just lowering your damage by using it AND if it’s a 1v1 they’ve probably closed the gap by the time it ends.

Durzlla.6295:

Forzani.2584:

Durzlla.6295:

ChillyChinaman.6057:

Wow, thanks for all the responses, never thought this thread would last this long.
In summary it seems that my suggestion does work, has been done, but is a a work around to a feature/ability that longbow should have be default.

So if longbow #1 was changed to regular shot>crippling>shot>power shot the longbow would be in a better place.

No, if anything they could scrap Rapid Fire and implement an “Ice Shot” ability that does damage, chills, and vulns and is used to keep them at bay, instead of rapid fire which just confused players into thinking it’s a damage increase.

Yep, when you think you are hitting for 4-10k per rapid fire shot it appears that way.

Not per shot, that’s total, but it flashes up (adding the damage) everytime an arrow hits during rapid fire making it look like it’s dealing a big chunk in damage, yet if you were at far range then you’re just lowering your damage by using it AND if it’s a 1v1 they’ve probably closed the gap by the time it ends.

Thus why I said …when you think you are hitting for 4-10k per shot …as many new players do

Forzani.2584:

Durzlla.6295:

Forzani.2584:

Durzlla.6295:

ChillyChinaman.6057:

Wow, thanks for all the responses, never thought this thread would last this long.
In summary it seems that my suggestion does work, has been done, but is a a work around to a feature/ability that longbow should have be default.

So if longbow #1 was changed to regular shot>crippling>shot>power shot the longbow would be in a better place.

No, if anything they could scrap Rapid Fire and implement an “Ice Shot” ability that does damage, chills, and vulns and is used to keep them at bay, instead of rapid fire which just confused players into thinking it’s a damage increase.

Yep, when you think you are hitting for 4-10k per rapid fire shot it appears that way.

Not per shot, that’s total, but it flashes up (adding the damage) everytime an arrow hits during rapid fire making it look like it’s dealing a big chunk in damage, yet if you were at far range then you’re just lowering your damage by using it AND if it’s a 1v1 they’ve probably closed the gap by the time it ends.

Thus why I said …when you think you are hitting for 4-10k per shot …as many new players do

Totally didn’t see that when I read your post lol, but yeah I know all my friends when they first played ranger thought it dealt more damage each hit (I didn’t because I base my damage on how far their healthbar moves).

That and rapid fires just a boring skill, same with barrage, I’d totally like to see barrage and rapid fire changed to be more “trick arrow” sorta skills.

EX: Explosive Arrow: Fire an arrow into the target crippling them for X seconds, after Y seconds they explode, launching them and nearby enemies backwards and burning them.

EX: Explosive Arrow: Fire an arrow into the target crippling them for X seconds, after Y seconds they explode, launching them and nearby enemies backwards and burning them.

Haha. Oh, I loved that functionality on Zilean in league of legends. I can’t tell you how delightful it was to have somebody slip out of my grasp just to pop to my Time Bomb offscreen.

Though admittedly, this game might have too much immediate access to personal defense. I kind of think the counterplay would end up less in the ‘I have to move away from my friends and eat this’ category, and more in the much lamer ‘count to two then dodge/block/etc’ category. /sigh. This game’s self sufficiency policy really sucks sometimes.

You know, it might be nice to explore distance manipulation that’s more on your own terms and less on the enemy’s. Like, I’d be just as happy if barrage were something like a teleport or a leap, than something that has to control the enemy.

Vox Hollow.2736:

EX: Explosive Arrow: Fire an arrow into the target crippling them for X seconds, after Y seconds they explode, launching them and nearby enemies backwards and burning them.

Haha. Oh, I loved that functionality on Zilean in league of legends. I can’t tell you how delightful it was to have somebody slip out of my grasp just to pop to my Time Bomb offscreen.

Though admittedly, this game might have too much immediate access to personal defense. I kind of think the counterplay would end up less in the ‘I have to move away from my friends and eat this’ category, and more in the much lamer ‘count to two then dodge/block/etc’ category. /sigh. This game’s self sufficiency policy really sucks sometimes.

You know, it might be nice to explore distance manipulation that’s more on your own terms and less on the enemy’s. Like, I’d be just as happy if barrage were something like a teleport or a leap, than something that has to control the enemy.

Personally I think the attack (the explosion, NOT the arrow) would make sense to be unblockable, and id be ok with a mobility skill too, I just am a HUGE fan of control.

Another idea I had (this was for a utility skill granted) “Escape: Wilderness Survival clear immobilize, cripple, and chill and gain Super Speed (100% movement speed) and stealth.”

Durzlla.6295:

ChillyChinaman.6057:

Wow, thanks for all the responses, never thought this thread would last this long.
In summary it seems that my suggestion does work, has been done, but is a a work around to a feature/ability that longbow should have be default.

So if longbow #1 was changed to regular shot>crippling>shot>power shot the longbow would be in a better place.

No, if anything they could scrap Rapid Fire and implement an “Ice Shot” ability that does damage, chills, and vulns and is used to keep them at bay, instead of rapid fire which just confused players into thinking it’s a damage increase.

A better idea. Kill two birds with one stone. The only question is whether to make it a channel or single shot.

ChillyChinaman.6057:

Durzlla.6295:

ChillyChinaman.6057:

Wow, thanks for all the responses, never thought this thread would last this long.
In summary it seems that my suggestion does work, has been done, but is a a work around to a feature/ability that longbow should have be default.

So if longbow #1 was changed to regular shot>crippling>shot>power shot the longbow would be in a better place.

No, if anything they could scrap Rapid Fire and implement an “Ice Shot” ability that does damage, chills, and vulns and is used to keep them at bay, instead of rapid fire which just confused players into thinking it’s a damage increase.

A better idea. Kill two birds with one stone. The only question is whether to make it a channel or single shot.

I’d like it to be a single shot, a channel wouldn’t solve any issues a single shot that chills and allies vuln could be used from 1500 range and be a DPS increase because it not I my makes them more vulnerable but makes them stay farther away from you for longer. It could also help reopen the gap.

1s of cripple added to Rapid Fire for each hit.

Holland.9351:

1s of cripple added to Rapid Fire for each hit.

This wouldn’t fix the issue with longbow, the issue is we can’t keep then at range and regain range to keep our auto strong, buffing rapid fire wouldn’t help this because it’s a channeled ability. By the time we stack enough cripple on them we’ve already got them in our face and cripple isn’t strong enough to increase the gap, just keep it open a little longer.

Fluffball.8307:

Durz’s post was in response to me saying I liked Ice on the LB. My WvW roaming build is based around CC, and adding that much extra CC is a big boon to me. It really is a lot of chill. I wouldn’t want to roam with a LB using only Ice as my CC/defense, though.

What do you do when you run into a warrior with -98% reduction on chill duration?

That’s a question you’ll like to answer

Tom Gore.4035:

Fluffball.8307:

Durz’s post was in response to me saying I liked Ice on the LB. My WvW roaming build is based around CC, and adding that much extra CC is a big boon to me. It really is a lot of chill. I wouldn’t want to roam with a LB using only Ice as my CC/defense, though.

What do you do when you run into a warrior with -98% reduction on chill duration?

That’s a question you’ll like to answer

Like I said, the SoI is purely added benefit. My build works without it. So to answer your question, I kill the warrior.

It’s kind of absurd to think chill is not a viable condition because you came up with a scenario where it isn’t very useful.