Guild Wars 2

I’ve only played Ranger briefly. In fact my main is a Warrior. But I proposed a change to the Warriors Healing Signet that was inspired by Rangers Troll Ungent, so I felt obligated to ask for Ranger criticism regarding the change. My thought is that healing signet gives too much passive regen with no way to negate it save poison. Essentially you had a skill on your 6th slot that did nothing but look nice. You never had any reason to use it. Warriors have minimal damage mitigation (hence their high health pool). But Warriors still need a healing skill in way of attrition. So here is what I propose. Lower the passive healing from healing signet (250-270, maybe 300 with healing power). And add an effect like Troll Ungent where you will be granted massive healing over a few seconds (maybe 600-700 over 10 seconds?) change the cool down time to 30-35 seconds and you have a decently balanced skill. I am far from a statistics expert and have no idea on how these numbers would affect various situations. But the idea, to me, is a good one and one I felt I had to share. And of course give to the Ranger community for evaluation. So, what are your thoughts? Will you give helpful insights/improvements on my Idea? Or will you say “Wtf is a warrior doing here? BURN HIM!” or “HEALING SIGNET IS OP GTFO!!!”

I think that’d work fine. 200-300 passive heal with a 2k/3pulse heal for ~6k total sounds good. I think the only other pulse heal is Ele Ether Renewal.

I think the main issue to bring back to your Warrior pool is whether or not to make is a channel like Ether Renewal or a set and forget like Troll Unguent.

Healing signet is in no way OP … so I can’t help you ‘fix’ what is not broken.

Ision.3207:

Healing signet is in no way OP … so I can’t help you ‘fix’ what is not broken.

I don’t remember saying it was over powered. I also don’t remember saying it needed to be fixed. I simply showed a problem. That problem is that Healing Signet has no counter outside of poison. It also takes no skill to use as the only thing you do is put it on. That’s it. Thank you for bumping the thread though. The more comments this thread gets the longer window I have to get some good comments in. Helpful comments with suggestions.

ChillyChinaman.6057:

I think that’d work fine. 200-300 passive heal with a 2k/3pulse heal for ~6k total sounds good. I think the only other pulse heal is Ele Ether Renewal.

I think the main issue to bring back to your Warrior pool is whether or not to make is a channel like Ether Renewal or a set and forget like Troll Unguent.

Very true, a channel would be restrictive. But would encourage gameplay such as stunning an opponent so you may heal? More dynamic gameplay is what I crave and Healing Signet is a blight on such gameplay. Thank you for your comment/suggestion. Perhaps more people will comment on it and bring new ideas to this skill.

HS is definitely OP

It is OP because it gives out the most healing per standard healing CD time , because it offers no counterplay and cannot be interrupted . Furthermore , the only counter is poison but that is easily dealth with by using AOE bursts that clear 3 conditions . It is also 400 hp/sec + adrenal heal giving up to 600 hp/sec without any investment into healing power or support runes . That is why its OP

I like this OP, he doesnt take any kitten :P

Now to reply to his thread so he doesnt turn on me… I like the idea of changing HS so there is a use for the active to be well.. activated.., but I dont think this is quite right.

The problem is that HS and Troll Ugent are simular in the sense that they are pre-emptive heals. You dont use TU when you need a sudden heal instantly (well you would because you have no other choice if its what you have equipped, but you know what I mean), and the same goes for the HS passive.

I dont think people would give up their passive for 30-35s just to gain 3-4k HP over the next 10 seconds (6-7k minus the 3k they would have gotten anyway).

Kinda lost on how to explain this and I am going on a bit.. but essentially people will only use the HS active as a last resort, because using it basicly means that for the next 30s you are a sitting duck, and people wont want a “last restort” heal which takes 10s to take effect. It would need to be like it is now, with the active being an instant burst of health.. they just need to tone down the passive and buff the active, but not change how the active work.

What was far to long for such a small point, sorry.

HS just needs a nerf . Reduce it to 300 hp/sec and buff scaling from healing power . Fixed .

Why are we discussing HS in the Ranger forum?

btw… just cut its passive by 50% and increase the active by 50%. Done. It’s still the strongest heal in the game, but at least now it will need to be used occasionally.

If Healing Signet needed a nerf then they would’ve of done it this patch. Obviously they’ve tested it out and saw no problem with it.

Brutalistik.6473:

If Healing Signet needed a nerf then they would’ve of done it this patch. Obviously they’ve tested it out and saw no problem with it.

It does need a nerf. Passive skills need all across the board nerfs. Our sun spirit burning duration was nerfed from 3 seconds to 2, which I am fine with. But there are many strong passives out there that need nerfs.

Honestly, it really doesn’t need all that big of a change. Agreed that the active needs to be made more valuable, but ideally, the passive needs more counterplay features. Rather than taking the skill apart though, it really should just function exactly like adrenal health (and the mesmers new signet) by functioning off the class mechanic.

For instance: 0 Adrenaline, 0 regen, 1 bar, 100 hp/s, 2 bars, 200 hp per second, 3 bars, 300, etc. Then, for the active, working like Troll Unguent is a fine change that would “burst” the health regen regardless of adrenal levels.

Ideally, this would “slow” warrior builds down because you wouldn’t just throw on Healing Signet and then (using hambow as example with Burst Mastery) Burst burst burst and never worry ever about activating a heal or having to micromanage healing in any way other than making sure HS is slotted.

The cost of choosing to use the burst skill and do higher damage would come at the risk of lowering survivability for a few seconds, which would be all the counterplay it needs, without ever introducing any more hard counters or bad features (like Diamond Skin) into the game, and would also help stifle power creep.

All of that is imo anyhow, but you really didn’t need to ask the ranger community for permission to base your ideas off of one of our skills, since we aren’t the ones who designed our class to begin with haha, and ANet surely isn’t listening to us any more than other profession specific communities.

Chokolata.1870:

It is OP because it gives out the most healing per standard healing CD time , because it offers no counterplay and cannot be interrupted . Furthermore , the only counter is poison but that is easily dealth with by using AOE bursts that clear 3 conditions . It is also 400 hp/sec + adrenal heal giving up to 600 hp/sec without any investment into healing power or support runes . That is why its OP

Well said, although I liked the short version even better.

Healing Signet heal in a 32 fight 12,544 > bad vs spike dmg

Healing Surge heal in a 32 fight (used twice because of spike dmg) 11,770 (no adrenalin) – 19,640 (full adrenalin).

So where is warriors passive heal signet op?

i like the proposed change since it gives more incentives to actually use the skill instead of just letting it sit there for the passive. but playing with the numbers may be tricky

You cant compare it like that lol . Yuo calculate healing per second , as in one heal devided by cooldown . Only then you have equal footing to compare them

Chokolata.1870:

You cant compare it like that lol . Yuo calculate healing per second , as in one heal devided by cooldown . Only then you have equal footing to compare them

No because the signet is only healing if u get dmg (all the time never be at 100% life), if not healing surge will came out of cd and the signet is healing nothing.

If u get high spike dmg u need the active skill (most times) and losing the passiv.

Your way to calculate it.

Surge
9820/30=327

Signet

392*20=7840 (why shouldd we calculate like this? It´s passive…CD of this skill doesn´t matter nothing to compare about, and how to compare diffrent cds?)

7840/30 (surge cd)=261

And as i said, only if u get dmg all the time, and no spike dmg.

again , to compare things you need a common denominator

I really don’t think this thread is going anywhere might be best to just get it closed and buried.

Brutalistik.6473:

If Healing Signet needed a nerf then they would’ve of done it this patch. Obviously they’ve tested it out and saw no problem with it.

Anet…testing? Excuse me while I laugh at your naivety. If they DID test things, Ranger would be in a good place, now wouldn’t we?

Cufufalating.8479:

I like this OP, he doesnt take any kitten :P

Now to reply to his thread so he doesnt turn on me… I like the idea of changing HS so there is a use for the active to be well.. activated.., but I dont think this is quite right.

The problem is that HS and Troll Ugent are simular in the sense that they are pre-emptive heals. You dont use TU when you need a sudden heal instantly (well you would because you have no other choice if its what you have equipped, but you know what I mean), and the same goes for the HS passive.

I dont think people would give up their passive for 30-35s just to gain 3-4k HP over the next 10 seconds (6-7k minus the 3k they would have gotten anyway).

Kinda lost on how to explain this and I am going on a bit.. but essentially people will only use the HS active as a last resort, because using it basicly means that for the next 30s you are a sitting duck, and people wont want a “last restort” heal which takes 10s to take effect. It would need to be like it is now, with the active being an instant burst of health.. they just need to tone down the passive and buff the active, but not change how the active work.

What was far to long for such a small point, sorry.

That is a fair point and I thank you for making it. I like the idea for Troll Ungent to be included in the active because it makes the warrior think. “Should I CC this person while my health goes up?” Or immobilize, or running away with the Greatsword like a chicken. I believe ALL skills should take thought into using, And Healing Signet simply does not cut it. Currently two out of 4 healing skills warriors have are instant. We do not need another. Rather, like Defiant Stance, we need one more tactical skill that’s effectiveness is based on the player. Also the numbers would not be what they currently are (4K approximately) over 10 seconds. It would be lower than the rangers current heal with Trolls Ungent (850 with not healing power). Maybe 600-700?

jcbroe.4329:

Honestly, it really doesn’t need all that big of a change. Agreed that the active needs to be made more valuable, but ideally, the passive needs more counterplay features. Rather than taking the skill apart though, it really should just function exactly like adrenal health (and the mesmers new signet) by functioning off the class mechanic.

For instance: 0 Adrenaline, 0 regen, 1 bar, 100 hp/s, 2 bars, 200 hp per second, 3 bars, 300, etc. Then, for the active, working like Troll Unguent is a fine change that would “burst” the health regen regardless of adrenal levels.

Ideally, this would “slow” warrior builds down because you wouldn’t just throw on Healing Signet and then (using hambow as example with Burst Mastery) Burst burst burst and never worry ever about activating a heal or having to micromanage healing in any way other than making sure HS is slotted.

The cost of choosing to use the burst skill and do higher damage would come at the risk of lowering survivability for a few seconds, which would be all the counterplay it needs, without ever introducing any more hard counters or bad features (like Diamond Skin) into the game, and would also help stifle power creep.

All of that is imo anyhow, but you really didn’t need to ask the ranger community for permission to base your ideas off of one of our skills, since we aren’t the ones who designed our class to begin with haha, and ANet surely isn’t listening to us any more than other profession specific communities.

I love your proposed change. To base the warrior skill off of adrenaline like “Healing Surge” would make burst a tactical decision. And also I know I did not have to ask the Ranger community on the premise that you obviously did not design the skill. But you collectively have more experience with the skill than anyone else (especially the developers) and are in a position to judge my proposition fairly (or unfairly in some cases). And no they don’t listen to the Ranger community much. Rangers have the shortest end of the stick in my opinion in all aspects of the game. Which is why I have greatest respect for the Ranger class. Though I only played the class myself briefly. Thank you for responding

Should anyone reading this ,beautifully composed, thread wish to see a topic of similar build be discussed in the warriors forums. I am causing a revolution of kitten storms, fists raised in anger, and mothers hiding their children while their husbands prepare the pitchforks in my honor. Take a gander into the warrior forums and, if you support my change, add your own voice in support of mine.

I think the main point the OP is making is that the passive is too strong not because it heals too much but because it discourages using the active. You get a constant heal that can be outhealed by other warrior heal skills, but is never subject to interrupts, is never on cooldown, and encourages boring passive gameplay. In that case, yes, Heal Sig needs a fix.

The inherent design of signets in this game is creating a situational skill that requires a risk v reward decision for leaving it passive or activating it and losing the passive. As it stands, there is no incentive to pop HS. A balance must be found.

Norjena.5172:

Chokolata.1870:

You cant compare it like that lol . Yuo calculate healing per second , as in one heal devided by cooldown . Only then you have equal footing to compare them

No because the signet is only healing if u get dmg (all the time never be at 100% life), if not healing surge will came out of cd and the signet is healing nothing.

If u get high spike dmg u need the active skill (most times) and losing the passiv.

Your way to calculate it.

Surge
9820/30=327

Signet

392*20=7840 (why shouldd we calculate like this? It´s passive…CD of this skill doesn´t matter nothing to compare about, and how to compare diffrent cds?)

7840/30 (surge cd)=261

9820 hp / 30 sec = 327 hp/sec

The 392 from healing signet is already in hp/sec. There is no need to do any further calculations. 392 > 327, indicating that healing signet is, under ideal circumstances, the better heal (by about 20%).

Where signet falls behind is when you’re at 100% hp. In that case, the signet does nothing. Healing surge in that situation effectively “charges up” until the cooldown is expired. Then it can instantly deliver 9820 hp in 1 sec. In other words, if you start at 100% hp and take 10k of damage, healing surge can put you back to 99% hp in 1 sec because it’s “fully charged”. Healing signet will take 25 sec to get you up to 99% because it has no “charging” functionality attached. (It actually does, but the active is so weak the only time it makes sense to use it is when you and your target are both almost dead.)

As others have stated, healing signet’s problem is that its passive is too good. It makes people never want to use the active. OP’s suggestion (lower the passive, increase the active) is a good way to get around the problem. Another way is to mitigate its “charging up” disadvantage. e.g. if you’re at 100% hp it will constantly refresh Protection with a 5 sec duration. Then you can reduce its passive effect while keeping its active the same. There are lots of ways you can tweak it, but the currrent “strong passive, weak active” is about the lamest way to make the skill work.