We Heal as One Feedback [merged]
Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.
Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.
That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.
Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.
No, it doesn’t. Because when you combine might stacks with WHaO you get more might until you hit the cap. When you combine say, protection stacks, you get more protection time until it builds onto itself over and over where it eventually reaches the duration cap of ~8.5 minutes. Let’s say you and your pet have 10 stacks of might with 20 seconds duration each, you hit WHaO and you now have 20 stacks of might with 19 seconds duration (due to WHaO’s cast time), 16 seconds later you press WHaO again and now you have 25 stacks of might with 2 seconds of duration.
You cannot permanently keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. Stacks intensity boons like might were never a part of the problem here and there was no reason for them to be capped.
You can permanently keep up the might stacks from something that is applied for greater than 16s if it is reapplied. So that is indefinitely, and in doing so you can double the stacks from using WHaO. I think we are arguing different things.
We’re not arguing different things, it seems you don’t understand how the mechanics work. Let’s say you have 20 stacks of might with 2 seconds duration, then someone uses a buff that gives you 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. Your tooltip hover will say you have 23 stacks of might for 15 seconds. In reality, you have 20 stacks of might for 2 seconds and 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. After three seconds have passed you will have 3 stacks of might for 12 seconds. Reapplication of a stacks intensity boon does not refresh the duration of your existing stacks. They stack individually atop each other and are individually removed as their durations expire.
You could not infinitely keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. The problem was stacks duration boons and solely stacks duration boons.
Yes, but if you get 13 stacks of might for durations longer than 16s that are reapplied and use WHaO you will have perma 25 stacks.
Edit: it allowed minor might stacking to be more powerful than it should be, by doubling stacks.
And where are you pulling these supposed 13 stacks of might with at least 18 second durations from? And keep in mind their cooldowns need to be under the cooldown time of WHaO to be maintained permanently.
Let’s have a run down of a Ranger’s might sources:
Jungle Stalker, Mighty Roar: 5 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 3 second cast time, 25 second cooldown. Not maintainable.
Hits from Strength of the Pack: 1 stack of might per hit, 8 seconds base duration, 1 second cast time, 60 second cooldown. Not maintainable.
Brutish Seals on Signet use: 3 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 1 second cast time on Signet of the Wild, individual cooldown times of (80s, 60s, 60s, 30s). Not maintainable.
Under 50% health with Most Dangerous Game: 5 stacks of Might, 3 seconds duration, completely useless once you hit your heal button. Not maintainable.
Critical hit with Companion’s Might: 1 stack of might pet crit, 5 seconds base duration, unlisted ICD. Not maintainable.
Zephyr’s Speed on pet swap: 3 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 20 second cooldown. Not maintainable.
Even if you slot every single trait and skill that gives you might, a Ranger cannot get 13 stacks of might on themself and their pet with a duration that exceeds the cooldown of WHaO and whose individual skill or trait cooldowns are low enough to be used consistently on the WHaO cooldown.
It was never possible for a Ranger to maintain permanent might on themselves with WHaO.
Maybe not 13, but 8 easily. Zephyrs Speed(16s with BM line) comboed with Clarion Bond is 6 stacks ~18s with NM line, sigil of battle weapon swap is 2 stacks. Second go around your Clarion Bond won’t be triggered bc ICD, but you could actually cast CotW. This is only including might that the Ranger could throw out. There’s also Mighty Roar from Jungle Stalker(might is perma with BM minors, but would only last one rotation I guess) and Might that teammates could apply. Very easily could maintain high stacks. Especially if say you were using Runes like Runes of Strength.
If it only lasts one rotation it isn’t permanent. That’s essentially the exact opposite of permanent’s meaning. Your initial argument was that the Ranger could maintain permanent stacks of max might due to WHaO. There are certainly ways for a Ranger to get high stacks of might but this isn’t due to WHaO. We’re getting into the land of shifting goalposts here so let’s bring it back to the original point: There was no reason to put a 3 stack might cap on WHaO. It was not the problem with the skill.
I’m sorry anet, but this instant nerf to the skill is just wrong on so many levels. It it completely useless in PVP, unless you want to just die instantly without any defense or heal, so I won’t even touch on that—but it was the thing ranger NEEDED to be competitive in PVE, for himself, and his pet.
PVE is all about dishing damage, and since ranger is already handicapped by a pet dmg wise, you want to maximise the boons on your pet, especially might and fury. Since pet is the kitten 6th party member, he benefits from no party buffs, at all—relies solely on his master for the boons. In order to do that, you would need to take traitlines that diminish your personal dps, which in any kinda scenario is just not worth it, because pets can’t dodge aoe, and the ai attacking is horrible and unresponsive. This heal change was a godsent originally, your party buffs up, you click heal, and all the sweet might and fury gets copied to your poor pet. Great, ranger gets a step closer in competing with other prof dps wise. But what do you do? You instantly nerf it to the ground, so much that it’s not even worth taking anymore. Flat rate of 3 seconds or so? What the hell. What will the pet do with 3 stacks of 3 might for 3 seconds and 3sec of fury? It will run out before he first attacks a mob. It’s a HUGE joke and not even worth using anymore over the benefits of healing spring. You made something great for pve ranger, but you just had to take it away asap.
If you want to keep it like this, you should just give us the option to not have a pet, and give rangers a personal dmg increase to compete with other professions. What a joke. Warrior keeps up 25 stacks of might on the whole party + all the buffs, and ranger can’t share that with only his pet. Go home anet, you are drunk, and you hate ranger.
PSSST. That is 16 permanent stax of might.
Right, but we were arguing base stacks.
Local Charr Ruins Everything
We are balanced with the pet in mind. The pet happens to be bad in most cases. It misses a lot of the time in pvp, dies fast in pve, and is very unresponsive in general.
When an Ele dishes out several times higher the total amount of damage in a dungeon run/fractal/tequatl .. everything, do we still balance around something that is unreliable? No, we straight up buff the class. Be it raw numbers or a niche way to do it.
WHaO provided that niche, which is a good start but Anet decided to nerf it quickly into oblivion with pathetic duration and stack caps. However OP it seems, WHaO brought Ranger closer to an Ele but still within a distance and arguably on par with other classes. Is this not a good thing?
Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.
Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.
That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.
Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.
No, it doesn’t. Because when you combine might stacks with WHaO you get more might until you hit the cap. When you combine say, protection stacks, you get more protection time until it builds onto itself over and over where it eventually reaches the duration cap of ~8.5 minutes. Let’s say you and your pet have 10 stacks of might with 20 seconds duration each, you hit WHaO and you now have 20 stacks of might with 19 seconds duration (due to WHaO’s cast time), 16 seconds later you press WHaO again and now you have 25 stacks of might with 2 seconds of duration.
You cannot permanently keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. Stacks intensity boons like might were never a part of the problem here and there was no reason for them to be capped.
You can permanently keep up the might stacks from something that is applied for greater than 16s if it is reapplied. So that is indefinitely, and in doing so you can double the stacks from using WHaO. I think we are arguing different things.
We’re not arguing different things, it seems you don’t understand how the mechanics work. Let’s say you have 20 stacks of might with 2 seconds duration, then someone uses a buff that gives you 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. Your tooltip hover will say you have 23 stacks of might for 15 seconds. In reality, you have 20 stacks of might for 2 seconds and 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. After three seconds have passed you will have 3 stacks of might for 12 seconds. Reapplication of a stacks intensity boon does not refresh the duration of your existing stacks. They stack individually atop each other and are individually removed as their durations expire.
You could not infinitely keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. The problem was stacks duration boons and solely stacks duration boons.
Yes, but if you get 13 stacks of might for durations longer than 16s that are reapplied and use WHaO you will have perma 25 stacks.
Edit: it allowed minor might stacking to be more powerful than it should be, by doubling stacks.
And where are you pulling these supposed 13 stacks of might with at least 18 second durations from? And keep in mind their cooldowns need to be under the cooldown time of WHaO to be maintained permanently.
Let’s have a run down of a Ranger’s might sources:
Jungle Stalker, Mighty Roar: 5 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 3 second cast time, 25 second cooldown. Not maintainable.
Hits from Strength of the Pack: 1 stack of might per hit, 8 seconds base duration, 1 second cast time, 60 second cooldown. Not maintainable.
Brutish Seals on Signet use: 3 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 1 second cast time on Signet of the Wild, individual cooldown times of (80s, 60s, 60s, 30s). Not maintainable.
Under 50% health with Most Dangerous Game: 5 stacks of Might, 3 seconds duration, completely useless once you hit your heal button. Not maintainable.
Critical hit with Companion’s Might: 1 stack of might pet crit, 5 seconds base duration, unlisted ICD. Not maintainable.
Zephyr’s Speed on pet swap: 3 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 20 second cooldown. Not maintainable.
Even if you slot every single trait and skill that gives you might, a Ranger cannot get 13 stacks of might on themself and their pet with a duration that exceeds the cooldown of WHaO and whose individual skill or trait cooldowns are low enough to be used consistently on the WHaO cooldown.
It was never possible for a Ranger to maintain permanent might on themselves with WHaO.
Maybe not 13, but 8 easily. Zephyrs Speed(16s with BM line) comboed with Clarion Bond is 6 stacks ~18s with NM line, sigil of battle weapon swap is 2 stacks. Second go around your Clarion Bond won’t be triggered bc ICD, but you could actually cast CotW. This is only including might that the Ranger could throw out. There’s also Mighty Roar from Jungle Stalker(might is perma with BM minors, but would only last one rotation I guess) and Might that teammates could apply. Very easily could maintain high stacks. Especially if say you were using Runes like Runes of Strength.
So just be in combat, swap pet, swap weapon, occasionally blast warhorn, use long channeled pet skill, and use your heal, drop your condi removal for marksmanship, all so you can not hit max stacks of might. Sounds perfectly reasonable.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
I don’t run boon duration on my DPS ranger, Mcrocha. It was strictly used for spikes. I could not have permanent might stacks. Even in groups with a EA PS war and two eles, one being d/d.
Even in your scenerio, Mcrocha, that’s still not permanent unless you don’t mean lasts for ever.
NM gives 20% boon duration. And permanent means it can just be reapplied before the cd comes back up.
If you’re running NM you’re running a crap build for PVE, which is why I said I don’t run boon duration. You’re not going to have the stats for 25 might stacks to matter anyway if you’re running NM ‘cause likely you’re not running dps gear…. because why you run dps gear and not dps boosting trait lines? That’d be a waste. So, yeah, no boon duration.
Don’t bother argue with him.
He himself admitted that he never played other classes before, so he only live in that little box of how powerful ranger is because he never compare to other classes.
To him, 13 stacks of might and high up-time fury is alot.’
Btw, all the might he mentioned is post Warhorn buff, which is a much needed change for ages. It has nothing to do with WHaO. It is the Warhorn buff that matters.
(edited by Aomine.5012)
Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.
Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.
That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.
Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.
No, it doesn’t. Because when you combine might stacks with WHaO you get more might until you hit the cap. When you combine say, protection stacks, you get more protection time until it builds onto itself over and over where it eventually reaches the duration cap of ~8.5 minutes. Let’s say you and your pet have 10 stacks of might with 20 seconds duration each, you hit WHaO and you now have 20 stacks of might with 19 seconds duration (due to WHaO’s cast time), 16 seconds later you press WHaO again and now you have 25 stacks of might with 2 seconds of duration.
You cannot permanently keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. Stacks intensity boons like might were never a part of the problem here and there was no reason for them to be capped.
You can permanently keep up the might stacks from something that is applied for greater than 16s if it is reapplied. So that is indefinitely, and in doing so you can double the stacks from using WHaO. I think we are arguing different things.
We’re not arguing different things, it seems you don’t understand how the mechanics work. Let’s say you have 20 stacks of might with 2 seconds duration, then someone uses a buff that gives you 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. Your tooltip hover will say you have 23 stacks of might for 15 seconds. In reality, you have 20 stacks of might for 2 seconds and 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. After three seconds have passed you will have 3 stacks of might for 12 seconds. Reapplication of a stacks intensity boon does not refresh the duration of your existing stacks. They stack individually atop each other and are individually removed as their durations expire.
You could not infinitely keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. The problem was stacks duration boons and solely stacks duration boons.
Yes, but if you get 13 stacks of might for durations longer than 16s that are reapplied and use WHaO you will have perma 25 stacks.
Edit: it allowed minor might stacking to be more powerful than it should be, by doubling stacks.
And where are you pulling these supposed 13 stacks of might with at least 18 second durations from? And keep in mind their cooldowns need to be under the cooldown time of WHaO to be maintained permanently.
Let’s have a run down of a Ranger’s might sources:
Jungle Stalker, Mighty Roar: 5 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 3 second cast time, 25 second cooldown. Not maintainable.
Hits from Strength of the Pack: 1 stack of might per hit, 8 seconds base duration, 1 second cast time, 60 second cooldown. Not maintainable.
Brutish Seals on Signet use: 3 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 1 second cast time on Signet of the Wild, individual cooldown times of (80s, 60s, 60s, 30s). Not maintainable.
Under 50% health with Most Dangerous Game: 5 stacks of Might, 3 seconds duration, completely useless once you hit your heal button. Not maintainable.
Critical hit with Companion’s Might: 1 stack of might pet crit, 5 seconds base duration, unlisted ICD. Not maintainable.
Zephyr’s Speed on pet swap: 3 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 20 second cooldown. Not maintainable.
Even if you slot every single trait and skill that gives you might, a Ranger cannot get 13 stacks of might on themself and their pet with a duration that exceeds the cooldown of WHaO and whose individual skill or trait cooldowns are low enough to be used consistently on the WHaO cooldown.
It was never possible for a Ranger to maintain permanent might on themselves with WHaO.
nature Magic and Beast mastery makes Jungle Stalker 5 stax of might for 22 seconds on a 20s cooldown. Windborne Notes + Runes of Strength makes Call of the Wild give 3 stax for 24s on a 24s cooldown. I don’t want to comment on your argument, but Rangers ARE capable of perma might without WHaO, at a respectable level.
This was good insight and I appreciate it. You should always feel free to comment on other people’s arguments. Especially if you’re bringing hard data and analysis to the table with your perspective. Thank you.
If it only lasts one rotation it isn’t permanent. That’s essentially the exact opposite of permanent’s meaning. Your initial argument was that the Ranger could maintain permanent stacks of max might due to WHaO. There are certainly ways for a Ranger to get high stacks of might but this isn’t due to WHaO. We’re getting into the land of shifting goalposts here so let’s bring it back to the original point: There was no reason to put a 3 stack might cap on WHaO. It was not the problem with the skill.
You simply ignored all of the other sources I gave you evidence for, I am not shifting the goal posts. I demonstrated how to maintain 8 base stacks permanently with an occasional spike up from Mighty Roar or teammates stacking might as well.
Local Charr Ruins Everything
We are balanced with the pet in mind. The pet happens to be bad in most cases. It misses a lot of the time in pvp, dies fast in pve, and is very unresponsive in general.
When an Ele dishes out several times higher the total amount of damage in a dungeon run/fractal/tequatl .. everything, do we still balance around something that is unreliable? No, we straight up buff the class. Be it raw numbers or a niche way to do it.
WHaO provided that niche, which is a good start but Anet decided to nerf it quickly into oblivion with pathetic duration and stack caps. However OP it seems, WHaO brought Ranger closer to an Ele but still within a distance and arguably on par with other classes. Is this not a good thing?
I agree with you, but remember the devs do not fundamentally know how to design this class.
Tarnished Coast-[NOPE]
Kitten – Zerker Ranger – http://gw2efficiency.com/c/Kitten
Kitty Smallpaw – Condi Ranger – http://gw2efficiency.com/c/Kitty%20Smallpaw
Kitten – Zerker Ranger – http://gw2efficiency.com/c/Kitten
Kitty Smallpaw – Condi Ranger – http://gw2efficiency.com/c/Kitty%20Smallpaw
Eval the biggest issue with Rangers is that we are balanced around the pet. Our pet dies often really easily in pve or in pvp they don’t hit often enough. Pay attention to your pet when you pvp you will notice that they miss over half the time if not closer to 70% of the time against anyone who doesn’t stand still.
While I totally agree with you on this point, I don’t believe its within anets or the engines capacity to do much better than currently have. If they could I think they they would have already fixed many of our pet issues but have not. I would rather turn my attention to other areas that could actually be improved on.
It is within ANet’s capacity, they made the decision not to.
On AI: pets share AI with open-world mobs. I.E., the Juvenile Wolf uses the same AI as the Wolf mobs you run into in zones. ANet decided that improving the AI of pets to a point were they would be a genuine threat on their own would make the open-world mobs too difficult for novice players.
On better controls: ANet made the decision against them, with the reasoning that it would make Ranger too complex for new players and/or those with poor micro skills.
I don’t run boon duration on my DPS ranger, Mcrocha. It was strictly used for spikes. I could not have permanent might stacks. Even in groups with a EA PS war and two eles, one being d/d.
Even in your scenerio, Mcrocha, that’s still not permanent unless you don’t mean lasts for ever.
NM gives 20% boon duration. And permanent means it can just be reapplied before the cd comes back up.
Which brings us to the point that you are sacrificing other specs (which can be way a lot more useful for your builds) for some silly perma might stacking.
Detrimental.
Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.
Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.
That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.
Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.
No, it doesn’t. Because when you combine might stacks with WHaO you get more might until you hit the cap. When you combine say, protection stacks, you get more protection time until it builds onto itself over and over where it eventually reaches the duration cap of ~8.5 minutes. Let’s say you and your pet have 10 stacks of might with 20 seconds duration each, you hit WHaO and you now have 20 stacks of might with 19 seconds duration (due to WHaO’s cast time), 16 seconds later you press WHaO again and now you have 25 stacks of might with 2 seconds of duration.
You cannot permanently keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. Stacks intensity boons like might were never a part of the problem here and there was no reason for them to be capped.
You can permanently keep up the might stacks from something that is applied for greater than 16s if it is reapplied. So that is indefinitely, and in doing so you can double the stacks from using WHaO. I think we are arguing different things.
We’re not arguing different things, it seems you don’t understand how the mechanics work. Let’s say you have 20 stacks of might with 2 seconds duration, then someone uses a buff that gives you 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. Your tooltip hover will say you have 23 stacks of might for 15 seconds. In reality, you have 20 stacks of might for 2 seconds and 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. After three seconds have passed you will have 3 stacks of might for 12 seconds. Reapplication of a stacks intensity boon does not refresh the duration of your existing stacks. They stack individually atop each other and are individually removed as their durations expire.
You could not infinitely keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. The problem was stacks duration boons and solely stacks duration boons.
Yes, but if you get 13 stacks of might for durations longer than 16s that are reapplied and use WHaO you will have perma 25 stacks.
Edit: it allowed minor might stacking to be more powerful than it should be, by doubling stacks.
And where are you pulling these supposed 13 stacks of might with at least 18 second durations from? And keep in mind their cooldowns need to be under the cooldown time of WHaO to be maintained permanently.
Let’s have a run down of a Ranger’s might sources:
Jungle Stalker, Mighty Roar: 5 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 3 second cast time, 25 second cooldown. Not maintainable.
Hits from Strength of the Pack: 1 stack of might per hit, 8 seconds base duration, 1 second cast time, 60 second cooldown. Not maintainable.
Brutish Seals on Signet use: 3 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 1 second cast time on Signet of the Wild, individual cooldown times of (80s, 60s, 60s, 30s). Not maintainable.
Under 50% health with Most Dangerous Game: 5 stacks of Might, 3 seconds duration, completely useless once you hit your heal button. Not maintainable.
Critical hit with Companion’s Might: 1 stack of might pet crit, 5 seconds base duration, unlisted ICD. Not maintainable.
Zephyr’s Speed on pet swap: 3 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 20 second cooldown. Not maintainable.
Even if you slot every single trait and skill that gives you might, a Ranger cannot get 13 stacks of might on themself and their pet with a duration that exceeds the cooldown of WHaO and whose individual skill or trait cooldowns are low enough to be used consistently on the WHaO cooldown.
It was never possible for a Ranger to maintain permanent might on themselves with WHaO.
Maybe not 13, but 8 easily. Zephyrs Speed(16s with BM line) comboed with Clarion Bond is 6 stacks ~18s with NM line, sigil of battle weapon swap is 2 stacks. Second go around your Clarion Bond won’t be triggered bc ICD, but you could actually cast CotW. This is only including might that the Ranger could throw out. There’s also Mighty Roar from Jungle Stalker(might is perma with BM minors, but would only last one rotation I guess) and Might that teammates could apply. Very easily could maintain high stacks. Especially if say you were using Runes like Runes of Strength.
So just be in combat, swap pet, swap weapon, occasionally blast warhorn, use long channeled pet skill, and use your heal, drop your condi removal for marksmanship, all so you can not hit max stacks of might. Sounds perfectly reasonable.
I mean a basic combat rotation to maintain 16 stacks of might sounds reasonable to me.
Local Charr Ruins Everything
Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.
Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.
That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.
Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.
No, it doesn’t. Because when you combine might stacks with WHaO you get more might until you hit the cap. When you combine say, protection stacks, you get more protection time until it builds onto itself over and over where it eventually reaches the duration cap of ~8.5 minutes. Let’s say you and your pet have 10 stacks of might with 20 seconds duration each, you hit WHaO and you now have 20 stacks of might with 19 seconds duration (due to WHaO’s cast time), 16 seconds later you press WHaO again and now you have 25 stacks of might with 2 seconds of duration.
You cannot permanently keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. Stacks intensity boons like might were never a part of the problem here and there was no reason for them to be capped.
You can permanently keep up the might stacks from something that is applied for greater than 16s if it is reapplied. So that is indefinitely, and in doing so you can double the stacks from using WHaO. I think we are arguing different things.
We’re not arguing different things, it seems you don’t understand how the mechanics work. Let’s say you have 20 stacks of might with 2 seconds duration, then someone uses a buff that gives you 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. Your tooltip hover will say you have 23 stacks of might for 15 seconds. In reality, you have 20 stacks of might for 2 seconds and 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. After three seconds have passed you will have 3 stacks of might for 12 seconds. Reapplication of a stacks intensity boon does not refresh the duration of your existing stacks. They stack individually atop each other and are individually removed as their durations expire.
You could not infinitely keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. The problem was stacks duration boons and solely stacks duration boons.
Yes, but if you get 13 stacks of might for durations longer than 16s that are reapplied and use WHaO you will have perma 25 stacks.
Edit: it allowed minor might stacking to be more powerful than it should be, by doubling stacks.
And where are you pulling these supposed 13 stacks of might with at least 18 second durations from? And keep in mind their cooldowns need to be under the cooldown time of WHaO to be maintained permanently.
Let’s have a run down of a Ranger’s might sources:
Jungle Stalker, Mighty Roar: 5 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 3 second cast time, 25 second cooldown. Not maintainable.
Hits from Strength of the Pack: 1 stack of might per hit, 8 seconds base duration, 1 second cast time, 60 second cooldown. Not maintainable.
Brutish Seals on Signet use: 3 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 1 second cast time on Signet of the Wild, individual cooldown times of (80s, 60s, 60s, 30s). Not maintainable.
Under 50% health with Most Dangerous Game: 5 stacks of Might, 3 seconds duration, completely useless once you hit your heal button. Not maintainable.
Critical hit with Companion’s Might: 1 stack of might pet crit, 5 seconds base duration, unlisted ICD. Not maintainable.
Zephyr’s Speed on pet swap: 3 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 20 second cooldown. Not maintainable.
Even if you slot every single trait and skill that gives you might, a Ranger cannot get 13 stacks of might on themself and their pet with a duration that exceeds the cooldown of WHaO and whose individual skill or trait cooldowns are low enough to be used consistently on the WHaO cooldown.
It was never possible for a Ranger to maintain permanent might on themselves with WHaO.
Maybe not 13, but 8 easily. Zephyrs Speed(16s with BM line) comboed with Clarion Bond is 6 stacks ~18s with NM line, sigil of battle weapon swap is 2 stacks. Second go around your Clarion Bond won’t be triggered bc ICD, but you could actually cast CotW. This is only including might that the Ranger could throw out. There’s also Mighty Roar from Jungle Stalker(might is perma with BM minors, but would only last one rotation I guess) and Might that teammates could apply. Very easily could maintain high stacks. Especially if say you were using Runes like Runes of Strength.
So just be in combat, swap pet, swap weapon, occasionally blast warhorn, use long channeled pet skill, and use your heal, drop your condi removal for marksmanship, all so you can not hit max stacks of might. Sounds perfectly reasonable.
I mean a basic combat rotation to maintain 16 stacks of might sounds reasonable to me.
What are you giving up, negatives you are maintaining and what advantages you getting. Now do the negatives outweigh the positives. In no case now does it.
Tarnished Coast-[NOPE]
Kitten – Zerker Ranger – http://gw2efficiency.com/c/Kitten
Kitty Smallpaw – Condi Ranger – http://gw2efficiency.com/c/Kitty%20Smallpaw
Kitten – Zerker Ranger – http://gw2efficiency.com/c/Kitten
Kitty Smallpaw – Condi Ranger – http://gw2efficiency.com/c/Kitty%20Smallpaw
PSSST. That is 16 permanent stax of might.
Right, but we were arguing base stacks.
Yeah. My point was there are 16 stax of might that the ranger can maintain without WHaO on a permanent basis.
5 from JG stalker (Naturemagic + Beastmastery = 22s duration on a 20s CD)
3 from Call of the Wild Warhorn (Windborne Notes + Strength runes = 24s duration on a 24s cd)
3 from Clarion Bond (24s duration 24s CD)
2 from Sigil of battle (20s duration on a 9s CD)
3 Zephyr’s Speed (15s duration on a 15s CD)
These are all maintainable with moderate build sacrifice, before using WHaO to double the stax for their duration, meaning you could have had permanent 25 stax of might with the “old” WHaO (or close enough to not matter).
Sort of proved your argument for you, but I’ll butt out if you want…
This is just outstanding, greeted today with the friendly sight of ranger nerfs the day after the patch. I mean Honestly???? As some people have mentioned there have been actual game breaking bugs that go longer without a hotfix. Every person that saw and complained about the “100% quickness” most definitely didn’t try to make a build around it cause they soon would’ve realized it was complete trash, you had to have your HEAL on autocast for this to work, do people not realize how impractical this is before complaining?
The best thing you could essentially maintain was Swiftness, Fury and Regen, some of the most commonly available boons in the game. And as for the Might, there’s this thing called ‘Boon Stripping’, you know, that mechanical counterplay to boon heavy builds. 1 steal from a thief after a Ranger has blown half their Utilities to maintain these buffs and they’re a sitting duck with no heal.
…
We are balanced with the pet in mind. The pet happens to be bad in most cases. It misses a lot of the time in pvp, dies fast in pve, and is very unresponsive in general.
When an Ele dishes out several times higher the total amount of damage in a dungeon run/fractal/tequatl .. everything, do we still balance around something that is unreliable? No, we straight up buff the class. Be it raw numbers or a niche way to do it.
WHaO provided that niche, which is a good start but Anet decided to nerf it quickly into oblivion with pathetic duration and stack caps. However OP it seems, WHaO brought Ranger closer to an Ele but still within a distance and arguably on par with other classes. Is this not a good thing?
I agree with you, but remember the devs do not fundamentally know how to design this class.
Nerf Pet damage by a ton. Make them more of a CC/Support option. NEVER for damage. Give damage back to Ranger. Balance and design fun interactions with pet from there.
If it only lasts one rotation it isn’t permanent. That’s essentially the exact opposite of permanent’s meaning. Your initial argument was that the Ranger could maintain permanent stacks of max might due to WHaO. There are certainly ways for a Ranger to get high stacks of might but this isn’t due to WHaO. We’re getting into the land of shifting goalposts here so let’s bring it back to the original point: There was no reason to put a 3 stack might cap on WHaO. It was not the problem with the skill.
You simply ignored all of the other sources I gave you evidence for, I am not shifting the goal posts. I demonstrated how to maintain 8 base stacks permanently with an occasional spike up from Mighty Roar or teammates stacking might as well.
Teammates stacking might on you is completely irrelevant to the question. They can stack might on you all day without WHaO. It has nothing to do with WHaO. As for 8 stacks of might? It’s nothing. 16 stacks of might? That’s a good start. But your argument was that a Ranger using WHaO could permanently maintain 25 stacks of might. This is incorrect and has been shown to be incorrect.
PSSST. That is 16 permanent stax of might.
Right, but we were arguing base stacks.
Yeah. My point was there are 16 stax of might that the ranger can maintain without WHaO on a permanent basis.
5 from JG stalker (Naturemagic + Beastmastery = 22s duration on a 20s CD)
3 from Call of the Wild Warhorn (Windborne Notes + Strength runes = 24s duration on a 24s cd)
3 from Clarion Bond (24s duration 24s CD)
2 from Sigil of battle (20s duration on a 9s CD)
3 Zephyr’s Speed (15s duration on a 15s CD)These are all maintainable with moderate build sacrifice, before using WHaO to double the stax for their duration, meaning you could have had permanent 25 stax of might with the “old” WHaO (or close enough to not matter).
Sort of proved your argument for you, but I’ll butt out if you want…
By all means lend me a hand, I’m exhausted mentally and tired of getting ganged up on in this thread. Massive example of group think in action going on.
Local Charr Ruins Everything
Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.
Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.
That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.
Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.
No, it doesn’t. Because when you combine might stacks with WHaO you get more might until you hit the cap. When you combine say, protection stacks, you get more protection time until it builds onto itself over and over where it eventually reaches the duration cap of ~8.5 minutes. Let’s say you and your pet have 10 stacks of might with 20 seconds duration each, you hit WHaO and you now have 20 stacks of might with 19 seconds duration (due to WHaO’s cast time), 16 seconds later you press WHaO again and now you have 25 stacks of might with 2 seconds of duration.
You cannot permanently keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. Stacks intensity boons like might were never a part of the problem here and there was no reason for them to be capped.
You can permanently keep up the might stacks from something that is applied for greater than 16s if it is reapplied. So that is indefinitely, and in doing so you can double the stacks from using WHaO. I think we are arguing different things.
We’re not arguing different things, it seems you don’t understand how the mechanics work. Let’s say you have 20 stacks of might with 2 seconds duration, then someone uses a buff that gives you 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. Your tooltip hover will say you have 23 stacks of might for 15 seconds. In reality, you have 20 stacks of might for 2 seconds and 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. After three seconds have passed you will have 3 stacks of might for 12 seconds. Reapplication of a stacks intensity boon does not refresh the duration of your existing stacks. They stack individually atop each other and are individually removed as their durations expire.
You could not infinitely keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. The problem was stacks duration boons and solely stacks duration boons.
Yes, but if you get 13 stacks of might for durations longer than 16s that are reapplied and use WHaO you will have perma 25 stacks.
Edit: it allowed minor might stacking to be more powerful than it should be, by doubling stacks.
And where are you pulling these supposed 13 stacks of might with at least 18 second durations from? And keep in mind their cooldowns need to be under the cooldown time of WHaO to be maintained permanently.
Let’s have a run down of a Ranger’s might sources:
Jungle Stalker, Mighty Roar: 5 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 3 second cast time, 25 second cooldown. Not maintainable.
Hits from Strength of the Pack: 1 stack of might per hit, 8 seconds base duration, 1 second cast time, 60 second cooldown. Not maintainable.
Brutish Seals on Signet use: 3 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 1 second cast time on Signet of the Wild, individual cooldown times of (80s, 60s, 60s, 30s). Not maintainable.
Under 50% health with Most Dangerous Game: 5 stacks of Might, 3 seconds duration, completely useless once you hit your heal button. Not maintainable.
Critical hit with Companion’s Might: 1 stack of might pet crit, 5 seconds base duration, unlisted ICD. Not maintainable.
Zephyr’s Speed on pet swap: 3 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 20 second cooldown. Not maintainable.
Even if you slot every single trait and skill that gives you might, a Ranger cannot get 13 stacks of might on themself and their pet with a duration that exceeds the cooldown of WHaO and whose individual skill or trait cooldowns are low enough to be used consistently on the WHaO cooldown.
It was never possible for a Ranger to maintain permanent might on themselves with WHaO.
Maybe not 13, but 8 easily. Zephyrs Speed(16s with BM line) comboed with Clarion Bond is 6 stacks ~18s with NM line, sigil of battle weapon swap is 2 stacks. Second go around your Clarion Bond won’t be triggered bc ICD, but you could actually cast CotW. This is only including might that the Ranger could throw out. There’s also Mighty Roar from Jungle Stalker(might is perma with BM minors, but would only last one rotation I guess) and Might that teammates could apply. Very easily could maintain high stacks. Especially if say you were using Runes like Runes of Strength.
So just be in combat, swap pet, swap weapon, occasionally blast warhorn, use long channeled pet skill, and use your heal, drop your condi removal for marksmanship, all so you can not hit max stacks of might. Sounds perfectly reasonable.
I mean a basic combat rotation to maintain 16 stacks of might sounds reasonable to me.
Okay, go try it out. See how long you survive after gimping your traits, and blowing pet swaps and weapons swaps on cooldown just to keep up that might. Please take a video of yourself running your “basic combat rotation” in a ranked PvP match.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
Rangers players, myself included, were pretty pumped when we heard at Twitchcon that a number of changes were coming to our beloved profession to “bring it more in line” with the others.
This is the heart of it. We were supposed to be getting a buff out of this patch to put us in line with other classes, something we waited a very long time for. I think most people are angry because at the end of the day we didn’t really get anything, and we are going to keep waiting.
If it only lasts one rotation it isn’t permanent. That’s essentially the exact opposite of permanent’s meaning. Your initial argument was that the Ranger could maintain permanent stacks of max might due to WHaO. There are certainly ways for a Ranger to get high stacks of might but this isn’t due to WHaO. We’re getting into the land of shifting goalposts here so let’s bring it back to the original point: There was no reason to put a 3 stack might cap on WHaO. It was not the problem with the skill.
You simply ignored all of the other sources I gave you evidence for, I am not shifting the goal posts. I demonstrated how to maintain 8 base stacks permanently with an occasional spike up from Mighty Roar or teammates stacking might as well.
Teammates stacking might on you is completely irrelevant to the question. They can stack might on you all day without WHaO. It has nothing to do with WHaO. As for 8 stacks of might? It’s nothing. 16 stacks of might? That’s a good start. But your argument was that a Ranger using WHaO could permanently maintain 25 stacks of might. This is incorrect and has been shown to be incorrect.
The group stacking was evidence of how the might stack could be topped off to 25.
Thanks to a little reminder from Oberon.
5 from JG stalker (Naturemagic + Beastmastery = 22s duration on a 20s CD)
3 from Call of the Wild Warhorn (Windborne Notes + Strength runes = 24s duration on a 24s cd)
3 from Clarion Bond (24s duration 24s CD)
2 from Sigil of battle (20s duration on a 9s CD)
3 Zephyr’s Speed (15s duration on a 15s CD)
These are all maintainable with moderate build sacrifice, before using WHaO to double the stax for their duration, meaning you could have had permanent 25 stax of might with the “old” WHaO (or close enough to not matter).
Sort of proved your argument for you, but I’ll butt out if you want…
I believe you are the one to have been proven incorrect. But Im going to sleep now.
Local Charr Ruins Everything
Anet should remove Ranger from GW2. My Thief can kill Ranger in a hit after the latest patch. It’s so weak.
Who care the PvE? PvE is not a place for show the strength. Don’t for get to nerf Bow range.
Sorry for my beginner English / http://www.kingrpg.net My Blog
(edited by KINGRPG.3492)
PSSST. That is 16 permanent stax of might.
Right, but we were arguing base stacks.
Yeah. My point was there are 16 stax of might that the ranger can maintain without WHaO on a permanent basis.
5 from JG stalker (Naturemagic + Beastmastery = 22s duration on a 20s CD)
3 from Call of the Wild Warhorn (Windborne Notes + Strength runes = 24s duration on a 24s cd)
3 from Clarion Bond (24s duration 24s CD)
2 from Sigil of battle (20s duration on a 9s CD)
3 Zephyr’s Speed (15s duration on a 15s CD)These are all maintainable with moderate build sacrifice, before using WHaO to double the stax for their duration, meaning you could have had permanent 25 stax of might with the “old” WHaO (or close enough to not matter).
Sort of proved your argument for you, but I’ll butt out if you want…
The main issue here I see is the three second cast time of the Jungle Stalker’s roar. A 22s duration against a 20s cooldown and 3s cast time mean that you lose the stack unless you spec in for it.
I don’t run boon duration on my DPS ranger, Mcrocha. It was strictly used for spikes. I could not have permanent might stacks. Even in groups with a EA PS war and two eles, one being d/d.
Even in your scenerio, Mcrocha, that’s still not permanent unless you don’t mean lasts for ever.
NM gives 20% boon duration. And permanent means it can just be reapplied before the cd comes back up.
If you’re running NM you’re running a crap build for PVE, which is why I said I don’t run boon duration. You’re not going to have the stats for 25 might stacks to matter anyway if you’re running NM ‘cause likely you’re not running dps gear…. because why you run dps gear and not dps boosting trait lines? That’d be a waste. So, yeah, no boon duration.
The meta build would disagree with you.
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Ranger_-_S/A_LB_Spotter
NEWSFLASH: that build is no longer valid. Did you see the posting date? Of course you didn’t. Get that trash outta here now.
Speaking from a PVE-only point of view…
If it only lasts one rotation it isn’t permanent. That’s essentially the exact opposite of permanent’s meaning. Your initial argument was that the Ranger could maintain permanent stacks of max might due to WHaO. There are certainly ways for a Ranger to get high stacks of might but this isn’t due to WHaO. We’re getting into the land of shifting goalposts here so let’s bring it back to the original point: There was no reason to put a 3 stack might cap on WHaO. It was not the problem with the skill.
You simply ignored all of the other sources I gave you evidence for, I am not shifting the goal posts. I demonstrated how to maintain 8 base stacks permanently with an occasional spike up from Mighty Roar or teammates stacking might as well.
Teammates stacking might on you is completely irrelevant to the question. They can stack might on you all day without WHaO. It has nothing to do with WHaO. As for 8 stacks of might? It’s nothing. 16 stacks of might? That’s a good start. But your argument was that a Ranger using WHaO could permanently maintain 25 stacks of might. This is incorrect and has been shown to be incorrect.
The point was: if you can permanently maintain 16 stax of might without WHaO (which i proved is totally possible above), you could have used WHaO to get those stax of might from your pet to maintain 25 stax (since it caps out). The build to do so doesn’t even sacrifice all that much dps, all you end up losing is the Skirmishing line which acceptable for 25 stax of might in a fight.
Edit: YES, the cast times make you lag just a little bit. You dont’ have it every milisecond of every moment in the fight, but if you are going to argue that having almost 100% uptime of 25 stax isn’t worth the same as always having 100% uptime then this becomes a battle of semantics and there is literally no reason to continue.
EDIT2: if you must have every moment… use quickness to cast it…. it then becomes a 1.5s cast giving you a whole .5s to activate it to permanently maintain 25 stax. There really isn’t much sacrifice to this set up to achieve this… I use variations of it for general PvE/dungeon use all the time dependign on my group… /edit
He was right, you were wrong. Can we get back to the actual issue plz?
(edited by Oberon Vex.1389)
PSSST. That is 16 permanent stax of might.
Right, but we were arguing base stacks.
Yeah. My point was there are 16 stax of might that the ranger can maintain without WHaO on a permanent basis.
5 from JG stalker (Naturemagic + Beastmastery = 22s duration on a 20s CD)
3 from Call of the Wild Warhorn (Windborne Notes + Strength runes = 24s duration on a 24s cd)
3 from Clarion Bond (24s duration 24s CD)
2 from Sigil of battle (20s duration on a 9s CD)
3 Zephyr’s Speed (15s duration on a 15s CD)These are all maintainable with moderate build sacrifice, before using WHaO to double the stax for their duration, meaning you could have had permanent 25 stax of might with the “old” WHaO (or close enough to not matter).
Sort of proved your argument for you, but I’ll butt out if you want…
The main issue here I see is the three second cast time of the Jungle Stalker’s roar. A 22s duration against a 20s cooldown and 3s cast time mean that you lose the stack unless you spec in for it.
It will cast it faster with Quickness.
Local Charr Ruins Everything
I don’t run boon duration on my DPS ranger, Mcrocha. It was strictly used for spikes. I could not have permanent might stacks. Even in groups with a EA PS war and two eles, one being d/d.
Even in your scenerio, Mcrocha, that’s still not permanent unless you don’t mean lasts for ever.
NM gives 20% boon duration. And permanent means it can just be reapplied before the cd comes back up.
If you’re running NM you’re running a crap build for PVE, which is why I said I don’t run boon duration. You’re not going to have the stats for 25 might stacks to matter anyway if you’re running NM ‘cause likely you’re not running dps gear…. because why you run dps gear and not dps boosting trait lines? That’d be a waste. So, yeah, no boon duration.
The meta build would disagree with you.
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Ranger_-_S/A_LB_SpotterNEWSFLASH: that build is no longer valid. Did you see the posting date? Of course you didn’t. Get that trash outta here now.
How is it no longer valid, it has been the meta build for quite some time.
Local Charr Ruins Everything
PSSST. That is 16 permanent stax of might.
Right, but we were arguing base stacks.
Yeah. My point was there are 16 stax of might that the ranger can maintain without WHaO on a permanent basis.
5 from JG stalker (Naturemagic + Beastmastery = 22s duration on a 20s CD)
3 from Call of the Wild Warhorn (Windborne Notes + Strength runes = 24s duration on a 24s cd)
3 from Clarion Bond (24s duration 24s CD)
2 from Sigil of battle (20s duration on a 9s CD)
3 Zephyr’s Speed (15s duration on a 15s CD)These are all maintainable with moderate build sacrifice, before using WHaO to double the stax for their duration, meaning you could have had permanent 25 stax of might with the “old” WHaO (or close enough to not matter).
Sort of proved your argument for you, but I’ll butt out if you want…
The main issue here I see is the three second cast time of the Jungle Stalker’s roar. A 22s duration against a 20s cooldown and 3s cast time mean that you lose the stack unless you spec in for it.
It will cast it faster with Quickness.
Unless you can get that roar off in the .5 second duration left on the boon you would still need to heavily trait in for in.
I don’t run boon duration on my DPS ranger, Mcrocha. It was strictly used for spikes. I could not have permanent might stacks. Even in groups with a EA PS war and two eles, one being d/d.
Even in your scenerio, Mcrocha, that’s still not permanent unless you don’t mean lasts for ever.
NM gives 20% boon duration. And permanent means it can just be reapplied before the cd comes back up.
If you’re running NM you’re running a crap build for PVE, which is why I said I don’t run boon duration. You’re not going to have the stats for 25 might stacks to matter anyway if you’re running NM ‘cause likely you’re not running dps gear…. because why you run dps gear and not dps boosting trait lines? That’d be a waste. So, yeah, no boon duration.
The meta build would disagree with you.
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Ranger_-_S/A_LB_SpotterNEWSFLASH: that build is no longer valid. Did you see the posting date? Of course you didn’t. Get that trash outta here now.
How is it no longer valid, it has been the meta build for quite some time.
If by “quite some time” you mean one day, then yeah, you’re right. But back in reality where we all live, no, that only came into existence with the pre-nerfed whao. I mean, you can live in fantasy land and pretend it has been meta if you want but everyone knows you’re lying.
Speaking from a PVE-only point of view…
If it only lasts one rotation it isn’t permanent. That’s essentially the exact opposite of permanent’s meaning. Your initial argument was that the Ranger could maintain permanent stacks of max might due to WHaO. There are certainly ways for a Ranger to get high stacks of might but this isn’t due to WHaO. We’re getting into the land of shifting goalposts here so let’s bring it back to the original point: There was no reason to put a 3 stack might cap on WHaO. It was not the problem with the skill.
You simply ignored all of the other sources I gave you evidence for, I am not shifting the goal posts. I demonstrated how to maintain 8 base stacks permanently with an occasional spike up from Mighty Roar or teammates stacking might as well.
Teammates stacking might on you is completely irrelevant to the question. They can stack might on you all day without WHaO. It has nothing to do with WHaO. As for 8 stacks of might? It’s nothing. 16 stacks of might? That’s a good start. But your argument was that a Ranger using WHaO could permanently maintain 25 stacks of might. This is incorrect and has been shown to be incorrect.
The point was: if you can permanently maintain 16 stax of might without WHaO (which i proved is totally possible above), you could have used WHaO to get those stax of might from your pet to maintain 25 stax (since it caps out). The build to do so doesn’t even sacrifice all that much dps, all you end up losing is the Skirmishing line which acceptable for 25 stax of might in a fight.
He was right, you were wrong. Can we get back to the actual issue plz?
As I already pointed out that build doesn’t work anywhere except on paper. You have to already be in combat, no condi removal, swapping pets, weapons and your heal on cooldown. Even the worst players will tear you apart.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
PSSST. That is 16 permanent stax of might.
Right, but we were arguing base stacks.
Yeah. My point was there are 16 stax of might that the ranger can maintain without WHaO on a permanent basis.
5 from JG stalker (Naturemagic + Beastmastery = 22s duration on a 20s CD)
3 from Call of the Wild Warhorn (Windborne Notes + Strength runes = 24s duration on a 24s cd)
3 from Clarion Bond (24s duration 24s CD)
2 from Sigil of battle (20s duration on a 9s CD)
3 Zephyr’s Speed (15s duration on a 15s CD)These are all maintainable with moderate build sacrifice, before using WHaO to double the stax for their duration, meaning you could have had permanent 25 stax of might with the “old” WHaO (or close enough to not matter).
Sort of proved your argument for you, but I’ll butt out if you want…
The main issue here I see is the three second cast time of the Jungle Stalker’s roar. A 22s duration against a 20s cooldown and 3s cast time mean that you lose the stack unless you spec in for it.
It will cast it faster with Quickness.
Unless you can get that roar off in the .5 second duration left on the boon you would still need to heavily trait in for in.
Idk man stop arguing it, the evidence has already been shown. Lets move the discussion more back on topic.
Local Charr Ruins Everything
Yeah. My point was there are 16 stax of might that the ranger can maintain without WHaO on a permanent basis.
5 from JG stalker (Naturemagic + Beastmastery = 22s duration on a 20s CD)
3 from Call of the Wild Warhorn (Windborne Notes + Strength runes = 24s duration on a 24s cd)
3 from Clarion Bond (24s duration 24s CD)
2 from Sigil of battle (20s duration on a 9s CD)
3 Zephyr’s Speed (15s duration on a 15s CD)These are all maintainable with moderate build sacrifice, before using WHaO to double the stax for their duration, meaning you could have had permanent 25 stax of might with the “old” WHaO (or close enough to not matter).
Sort of proved your argument for you, but I’ll butt out if you want…
Sorry no offense but it seems like you don’t play a ranger.
If you want to take into account all these things you cannot do them separately.
If you have Zephyr’s Speed, you are swapping pets it means,
-your Jungle stalker 5 stacks might is on a 32sec cooldown
-Clarion bond is then on a 32 sec cooldown too.
if you are using warhorn 5,
-your sigil of battles are 12 sec cooldown each on average. coz you are waiting for that 24 sec cooldown on warhorn 5
Now it seems to me like all the might duration are shorter than their cooldown now, so no perma 25 stacks.
Not to forget when you are swapping pets to benefit from Zephyr’s Speed your pet loses all its buff. And you get nothing out from WHaO except 3 might and 3sec quickness.
Also, because of varying might duration from the different applications, you don’t get constant x number of stacks.
(edited by niconori.7235)
Mcrocha, anyone can easily see you’ve lost all crediability. Please, do yourself a favor, exit stage right before you do any more damage to yourself.
If anyone was wondering, before 1 day ago that the build was posted on Metabattle they had Beast Mastery as the last line.
Speaking from a PVE-only point of view…
I don’t run boon duration on my DPS ranger, Mcrocha. It was strictly used for spikes. I could not have permanent might stacks. Even in groups with a EA PS war and two eles, one being d/d.
Even in your scenerio, Mcrocha, that’s still not permanent unless you don’t mean lasts for ever.
NM gives 20% boon duration. And permanent means it can just be reapplied before the cd comes back up.
If you’re running NM you’re running a crap build for PVE, which is why I said I don’t run boon duration. You’re not going to have the stats for 25 might stacks to matter anyway if you’re running NM ‘cause likely you’re not running dps gear…. because why you run dps gear and not dps boosting trait lines? That’d be a waste. So, yeah, no boon duration.
The meta build would disagree with you.
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Ranger_-_S/A_LB_SpotterNEWSFLASH: that build is no longer valid. Did you see the posting date? Of course you didn’t. Get that trash outta here now.
How is it no longer valid, it has been the meta build for quite some time.
If by “quite some time” you mean one day, then yeah, you’re right. But back in reality where we all live, no, that only came into existence with the pre-nerfed whao. I mean, you can live in fantasy land and pretend it has been meta if you want but everyone knows you’re lying.
LOL dont embarass yourself. It was modified today, but that doesn’t mean it was posted today. If you care to check, you can go on the view history option of the page in the top right corner and see for yourself since I am obviously lying.
Edit: grammar
Local Charr Ruins Everything
PSSST. That is 16 permanent stax of might.
Right, but we were arguing base stacks.
Yeah. My point was there are 16 stax of might that the ranger can maintain without WHaO on a permanent basis.
5 from JG stalker (Naturemagic + Beastmastery = 22s duration on a 20s CD)
3 from Call of the Wild Warhorn (Windborne Notes + Strength runes = 24s duration on a 24s cd)
3 from Clarion Bond (24s duration 24s CD)
2 from Sigil of battle (20s duration on a 9s CD)
3 Zephyr’s Speed (15s duration on a 15s CD)These are all maintainable with moderate build sacrifice, before using WHaO to double the stax for their duration, meaning you could have had permanent 25 stax of might with the “old” WHaO (or close enough to not matter).
Sort of proved your argument for you, but I’ll butt out if you want…
The main issue here I see is the three second cast time of the Jungle Stalker’s roar. A 22s duration against a 20s cooldown and 3s cast time mean that you lose the stack unless you spec in for it.
It will cast it faster with Quickness.
Unless you can get that roar off in the .5 second duration left on the boon you would still need to heavily trait in for in.
Idk man stop arguing it, the evidence has already been shown. Lets move the discussion more back on topic.
The point is that if you dedicate your entire build to the purpose of getting 16 might on you and your pet you can probably maintain a max stack of might if you play perfectly and stay in combat forever.
There was no reason to cap might transfer on WHaO. It wasn’t the problem.
I don’t run boon duration on my DPS ranger, Mcrocha. It was strictly used for spikes. I could not have permanent might stacks. Even in groups with a EA PS war and two eles, one being d/d.
Even in your scenerio, Mcrocha, that’s still not permanent unless you don’t mean lasts for ever.
NM gives 20% boon duration. And permanent means it can just be reapplied before the cd comes back up.
If you’re running NM you’re running a crap build for PVE, which is why I said I don’t run boon duration. You’re not going to have the stats for 25 might stacks to matter anyway if you’re running NM ‘cause likely you’re not running dps gear…. because why you run dps gear and not dps boosting trait lines? That’d be a waste. So, yeah, no boon duration.
The meta build would disagree with you.
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Ranger_-_S/A_LB_SpotterNEWSFLASH: that build is no longer valid. Did you see the posting date? Of course you didn’t. Get that trash outta here now.
How is it no longer valid, it has been the meta build for quite some time.
If by “quite some time” you mean one day, then yeah, you’re right. But back in reality where we all live, no, that only came into existence with the pre-nerfed whao. I mean, you can live in fantasy land and pretend it has been meta if you want but everyone knows you’re lying.
LOL dont embarass yourself. It was modified today, but that doesn’t mean it was posted today. If you care to check, you can go on the view history option of the page in the top right corner and see for yourself since I am obviously lying.
Edit: grammar
Uh, yeah, do what you preach. Go look at the history for what the build was for 9/26/2015. Have fun and my point stands.
Speaking from a PVE-only point of view…
Mcrocha, anyone can easily see you’ve lost all crediability. Please, do yourself a favor, exit stage right before you do any more damage to yourself.
If anyone was wondering, before 1 day ago that the build was posted on Metabattle they had Beast Mastery as the last line.
Ok and what is your point. You said two posts ago, that it was a “TRASH BUILD”. Please stop flaming me, you’re just being confrontational for no reason.
Local Charr Ruins Everything
If the build didn’t work, then why does it matter that it got nerfed?
it’s not because it was nerfed but how it was.
less than 24 hours to nerf a skill which what wasn’t even used in pvp, it wasn’t broken as some people said.
Ok, the boon duration was really long and quickness was out of control ( even thought nobody with a brain would use it in competitive play lol even in ranked).
They nerfed the duration of the boons copied OK fine, but not enough they thought might stack was too much for ranger so they capped it to max 3 stack.
So to make the long story short, people were crying about how a ranger gets 30s of quickness and they put a cap to might stacking LOL.
Don’t be mad I’m calling you out on the lie that NM was a meta battle build for more than a day. Truth hurts, doesn’kitten If you’re willing to lie about that, bluntly, to try to prove your point, how much else are you willing to lie about to prove your point?
Speaking from a PVE-only point of view…
If the build didn’t work, then why does it matter that it got nerfed?
it’s not because it was nerfed but how it was.
less than 24 hours to nerf a skill which what wasn’t even used in pvp, it wasn’t broken as some people said.
How can you know it wasn’t used in pvp when it was only around for 24 hours? lol
Local Charr Ruins Everything
If the build didn’t work, then why does it matter that it got nerfed?
Because it opened up possibilities.
We didn’t even get 24 hours to test it out. I was messing around with a (unfinished) build that offered a very fun risk vs. reward play.
What did the ranger get without this buff? 2 extra stacks of might on warhorn and some bug fixes? Great balance patch, thx anet. Maybe one day they will get around to fixing our pets, traits, shortbow, etc.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
Don’t be mad I’m calling you out on the lie that NM was a meta battle build for more than a day. Truth hurts, doesn’kitten If you’re willing to lie about that, bluntly, to try to prove your point, how much else are you willing to lie about to prove your point?
I mean I’m not lying that the build you see was considered the Meta build with WHaO before it was nerfed. You are lying to yourself if you don’t understand that. Furthermore, your original point was that any build that had NM in it was a TRASH build, I repeat, a TRASH build. You can’t escape what you already wrote man.
I’m not going to keep arguing with you though if all you do is call me a liar every time I provide evidence of something.
Local Charr Ruins Everything
I felt slightly above average with 25 stacks of might and quickness. they nerfed it in less than 24 hours lol.
If the build didn’t work, then why does it matter that it got nerfed?
it’s not because it was nerfed but how it was.
less than 24 hours to nerf a skill which what wasn’t even used in pvp, it wasn’t broken as some people said.
How can you know it wasn’t used in pvp when it was only around for 24 hours? lol
ok let’s say people used it so what?
Actually I was using it, but it was worse than ranger meta build.
No condi cleanse, break stun each 60s little support to team, but quickness, quickness was so op 30s I was a god.
The heal itself was/is bad the buff was good enough to try now it’s nerfed so it’s kitteneless heal again because troll is so much better.
Because they are trash builds… Except for that one day, you remember, when WHaO would copy boons like a boss? Yeah, that was a very good day when a NM build wasn’t trash.
And if you don’t want to be called a lar don’t tell lies. It’s pretty simple. You said it’s been on meta battle awhile, it hasn’t. It’s been on there all of one day. That’s the lie.
Speaking from a PVE-only point of view…
Don’t be mad I’m calling you out on the lie that NM was a meta battle build for more than a day. Truth hurts, doesn’kitten If you’re willing to lie about that, bluntly, to try to prove your point, how much else are you willing to lie about to prove your point?
I mean I’m not lying that the build you see was considered the Meta build with WHaO before it was nerfed. You are lying to yourself if you don’t understand that. Furthermore, your original point was that any build that had NM in it was a TRASH build, I repeat, a TRASH build. You can’t escape what you already wrote man.
I’m not going to keep arguing with you though if all you do is call me a liar every time I provide evidence of something.
Point is he didn’t use the build.
He just theory-crafting some amazing long duration boons on a dummy who wouldn’t fight back, that he can stack all those crazy boons without any risk, and no worries about all the conditions and boon removal out there, using an unrealistic build in an unrealistic situation to build up this invincible ranger against dummy.
I worked out a 16s quickness build with plenty of stunbreakers and condi cleanses, lb/s/wh, marauder stats. it wasn’t overpowered at all, was looking forward to mastering it.
If it only lasts one rotation it isn’t permanent. That’s essentially the exact opposite of permanent’s meaning. Your initial argument was that the Ranger could maintain permanent stacks of max might due to WHaO. There are certainly ways for a Ranger to get high stacks of might but this isn’t due to WHaO. We’re getting into the land of shifting goalposts here so let’s bring it back to the original point: There was no reason to put a 3 stack might cap on WHaO. It was not the problem with the skill.
You simply ignored all of the other sources I gave you evidence for, I am not shifting the goal posts. I demonstrated how to maintain 8 base stacks permanently with an occasional spike up from Mighty Roar or teammates stacking might as well.
Teammates stacking might on you is completely irrelevant to the question. They can stack might on you all day without WHaO. It has nothing to do with WHaO. As for 8 stacks of might? It’s nothing. 16 stacks of might? That’s a good start. But your argument was that a Ranger using WHaO could permanently maintain 25 stacks of might. This is incorrect and has been shown to be incorrect.
The group stacking was evidence of how the might stack could be topped off to 25.
Thanks to a little reminder from Oberon.
5 from JG stalker (Naturemagic + Beastmastery = 22s duration on a 20s CD)
3 from Call of the Wild Warhorn (Windborne Notes + Strength runes = 24s duration on a 24s cd)
3 from Clarion Bond (24s duration 24s CD)
2 from Sigil of battle (20s duration on a 9s CD)
3 Zephyr’s Speed (15s duration on a 15s CD)
These are all maintainable with moderate build sacrifice, before using WHaO to double the stax for their duration, meaning you could have had permanent 25 stax of might with the “old” WHaO (or close enough to not matter).
Sort of proved your argument for you, but I’ll butt out if you want…I believe you are the one to have been proven incorrect. But Im going to sleep now.
This assumes some kind of impossible situation where you are never not swapping to a stalker since it will be 32 seconds between the applications of mighty roar (not counting the 3s cast time) if one were to keep zephyr’s speed on cool down.
-Swap to Stalker, Proc zephyr for 15s, Proc Roar for 22s
-Swap again to Proc zephyr for 15s, Roar has 6s left
-Swap back to Stalker, Roar has been expired for 10 seconds and needs another 3 seconds to reapply.
It is not possible to swap to the next pet and back to the stalker before Mighty Roar expires.
Connection error(s) detected. Retrying…
Yeah. My point was there are 16 stax of might that the ranger can maintain without WHaO on a permanent basis.
5 from JG stalker (Naturemagic + Beastmastery = 22s duration on a 20s CD)
3 from Call of the Wild Warhorn (Windborne Notes + Strength runes = 24s duration on a 24s cd)
3 from Clarion Bond (24s duration 24s CD)
2 from Sigil of battle (20s duration on a 9s CD)
3 Zephyr’s Speed (15s duration on a 15s CD)These are all maintainable with moderate build sacrifice, before using WHaO to double the stax for their duration, meaning you could have had permanent 25 stax of might with the “old” WHaO (or close enough to not matter).
Sort of proved your argument for you, but I’ll butt out if you want…
Sorry no offense but it seems like you don’t play a ranger.
If you want to take into account all these things you cannot do them separately.
If you have Zephyr’s Speed, you are swapping pets it means,
-your Jungle stalker 5 stacks might is on a 32sec cooldown
-Clarion bond is then on a 32 sec cooldown too.if you are using warhorn 5,
-your sigil of battles are 12 sec cooldown each on average. coz you are waiting for that 24 sec cooldown on warhorn 5Now it seems to me like all the might duration are shorter than their cooldown now, so no perma 25 stacks.
Realllly…. So the fact that Ranger is my main since launch and my first lvl80 has nothing to do with the situation. Some stranger I don’t know and that doesn’t know me clearly is an authority on my play habits. I don’t care if you believe me. I don’t need you to. I am a ranger main.
My point was that, ON PAPER, you was possible to maintain 25 stax of might. Which you could have. As Puck intelligently pointed out, it is not viable against other players. minor to moderate condi-cleanse could be worked in via Signet of Renewal, Sigil of Purity, Sigil of Generosity, and Shake it off from brown bear. Not ideal, but optional, and perhaps a fun gimmick build to run at best.
This will be my last post in this thread because the rediculous angst and general vitriol isn’t worth the time it takes to read. In fact I feel sorry for the poor dev that has to wade through this muck. I will say this: as much as I am disappointed in Anet for how they have handled this blunder, I am much more disappointed in my fellow rangers for how they have reacted. Very few people here have forwarded anything of value but many have shown how base and petulant the ranger community can be — to the point that I wonder why anyone would care.
EDIT: Zephyr’s Speed is on a 15s cd. With Windborne Notes, Clarion Bond is on a 24s CD. Again, if you can’t bear that 2s of not having 25 stax of might… then deal with it i guess… Throw in Strength of the pack, or brutish seals or a sigil of strenght… The fact is Ranger could have had 25stax for a really long time….
(edited by Oberon Vex.1389)