Guild Wars 2

Gaile Gray.6029:

Curious: I’m still at work. Have you guys played with WHaO yet since the change? I’ll be trotting out my Ranger tonight, but I wondered if you’re basing your thoughts on statistics — which I can respect — or on playtime — which also is valuable.

Since the change to its weaker effect (and providing you combine the effect with Fortifying Bond), it allows you to stack might on the pet very quickly, and it also allows you to keep other boon durations up much longer….on the pet. On the Ranger, the effect and the short durations are kind of useless.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Curious: I’m still at work. Have you guys played with WHaO yet since the change? I’ll be trotting out my Ranger tonight, but I wondered if you’re basing your thoughts on statistics — which I can respect — or on playtime — which also is valuable.

Well it would be nice to base it on statistics but the skill doesn’t actually list the boon durations. That said after a little testing it seems to be in line with our “Fortifying Bond” trait which is what the more sceptical of the ranger community had first anticipated. It’s okay. As I said previously in the thread, this skill wasn’t really in need of a buff in my opinion.

Playing with HaO in lvl 50 fractals. Honestly feels like it was never even buffed. The might cap is uncalled for. The duration limit was needed, though it was a bit too much.

Gaile Gray.6029:

kevvy.5081:

Mcrocha.3891:

Look at all the red posts. Let this night go down in history as The Ranger Riots of 1328 AE.

And rightly so.

Nothing will turn eyes away faster than a riot. Don’t even go there! (Even if you were kidding, which I hope you were. )

Let’s provide actual, gameplay-based feedback and look for changes in the future. But let’s not post to be rude, comment to add nothing, or repeat endlessly the same reactions. Give details, give solid input, that’s what we should do. And yes, “we” includes… me!

Haha yeah I was joking sorry. The change to WHaO originally was too much imo and I think that the current functionality is a nice little buff to a heal that was in a decent place before it received any changes at all. Am fine with the change.

“I just did what I do best. I took your little plan and I turned it on itself. Look what I did to this city with a few utility slots and a couple of trait lines. Hmmm? You know… You know what I’ve noticed? Nobody panics when things go “according to plan.” Even if the plan is horrifying! If, tomorrow, I tell the press that, like, a thief can perma-stealth, or a truckload of warriors can stack 25 might on their entire party, nobody panics, because it’s all “part of the plan”. But when I say that one little old ranger will stack swiftness, well then everyone loses their minds!"

Played a few games of PvP and it is a noticeable change…

The might portion really hampered things down a bit.

Swiftness and Regen really didn’t matter too much as we had enough of it to begin with.. Not to mention, we had plenty of other sources to off set it, it was more of a convenience.

Granted, we only had 24 hours to test with the copying to begin with so the feel of it isn’t really something I can talk about. With that 24 hour play around period, the lack of might copying reallllllly put a damper on things….

Before I was able to be a little bit out of the way and focus players down and keep an eye on my pet, if I saw it was getting some might stacks from out Ele or Guradian I was able to pop WHAO and get those stacks to help out… now the stacks are so minimal that its not really even worth using outside of a panic heal.

AGAIN
this is with a 24 hour test period with that change so there isn’t anything very reliable to report on…. which is what has me scratching my head about the most….

ProtoMarcus.7649:

Tweak the base durations please. Please. Near-useless for most.

Suggestions:

‘We Heal as One!’

The boon copy effect is very interesting, but with the new flat duration, you can’t even ‘feel’ the boons. Little tweaks could give a bit of punch without breaking the game;

• Quickness – From 2 to 4s
• Protection – From 2 to 4s
• Resistance – From 2 to 4s
• Fury – From 3 to 8s
• Stability – From 3 to 6s (it’s just 1 stack after all… A change that wasn’t mentioned as it would copy all stacks of stability before the sept 30 patch)
• Swiftness – From 3 to 8s
• Vigor – From 3 to 8s
• Aegis – From 5s to 8s
• Regeneration – from 5 to 8s
• Retaliation – 5s is perfect
• Might – For this one, either keep its 3 stacks limit but make it 15s or lower its duration to 8s but remove the stack limit.

As the other thread has closed, lemme just reiterate my response to this again here… This is a very nice suggestion, very fair and long enough to really make a difference and still short enough to prevent pro-longed duration from one skill.

After messing around with this build most of the day in wvw and pve i simply… Can not understand this knee-jerk hotfix?
Did a dev mis calculate and this ‘mess’ had to be fixed?

I ask because other classes are far more powerful in pve and wvw environments.
Infact daily im getting LAUGHED at for playing my stupid ranger or simply excluded.

Might stacking is easy for many other classes yet we are limited after a day.

A skill that made you think ‘use for burst or save for survival’ got gutted to its same situation before and can only really stack swiftness now (lol)

I don’t get this when you have pu mesmers rocking blind AND ageis on stealth while being able to literally one shot most non bunker specs at the same time. Or simply condi spam.

Pve wise its known ranger is a joke along with necro. A quickness stacking build could have been the classes niche.

My feedback is; you over nerf a fun yet obviously powerful spec in less than a day when other classes run around as tiny gods for months before being looked at.
How do you expect us to react when we know that??

Gaile Gray.6029:

Curious: I’m still at work. Have you guys played with WHaO yet since the change? I’ll be trotting out my Ranger tonight, but I wondered if you’re basing your thoughts on statistics — which I can respect — or on playtime — which also is valuable.

Tbh right now it’s not that bad, it’s actually really good as a heal skill (also sharing a load of boons and works nicely with call of the wild and a handful of traits if you’re willing). The problem I think we have is the limited might stacking (3 really is pointless. I could do more damage with a worn out boot). The thing is Roy neglected to include that bit in his infamous fix tweet and we feel like we’ve been lied to and cheated. On top of this, we don’t see the point in limiting might. Other classes can might stack far more effectively and efficiently than us and it’s us who get the nerf. I was being WELCOMED to dungeon parties as a ranger before this nerf took place and it really felt like a new age.

Posting from my phone and auto correct sucks

I have, and I might not be the best ranger of the bunch, but I find it much more reliable to use TU and exploit scholar runes/Loud Whistle than get 3 whopping might stacks for a little bit (sure you get might get fury, swift and regen for 3 seconds whatever, but those boons are so abundant in the game you’re likely getting them from another source anyway).

Stormy Dragon.9210:

“I just did what I do best. I took your little plan and I turned it on itself. Look what I did to this city with a few utility slots and a couple of trait lines. Hmmm? You know… You know what I’ve noticed? Nobody panics when things go “according to plan.” Even if the plan is horrifying! If, tomorrow, I tell the press that, like, a thief can perma-stealth, or a truckload of warriors can stack 25 might on their entire party, nobody panics, because it’s all “part of the plan”. But when I say that one little old ranger will stack swiftness, well then everyone loses their minds!"

lol nice use of Joker’s quote… love it.

Unholy Pillager.3791:

…Also, is there any chance of an explanation for why rangers are prohibited from stacking might, but warriors, elementalists, necromancers, etc. are not?

Because all classes should not be the same. Why not let Thieves stack 25 might on themselves in seconds too?

Play time, build crafting (in game) in pvp, my numbers were based on actual viable builds to run potential builds in a pvp team comp or +1. Quickness stacking did not work as a viable build and even if you tried to run quickness, it was so much you couldn’t even do anything with it.. Press 12345, swap wepons 12345?…. It wasn’t worth the traits, there was no clear builds, stacking might as aLB/Gs didn’t work either and the damage was still normal, enemies double dodge, the heal was wasted and we died,
Only viable build that worked with might was Cele and rune of strength? And even then the damage was completely lack luster compared to when I run my ele same runes same Amy

Gaile Gray.6029:

We have forums for a reason. While Twitter is great for a lot of things, for something of this depthy, you can’t have a meaningful discussion at 140 characters.

If you have feedback, place it here. Don’t ping devs on Twitter or other places — just share your thoughts here!

You’re right, we have forums for a reason…so why don’t the devs use them to talk to us?

Gaile Gray.6029:

Curious: I’m still at work. Have you guys played with WHaO yet since the change? I’ll be trotting out my Ranger tonight, but I wondered if you’re basing your thoughts on statistics — which I can respect — or on playtime — which also is valuable.

I tried it after the patch. It doesn’t do anywhere near enough to justify using it anymore. I had to sacrifice a trait line, condi cleanse and use my heal when I didnt’ actually need the heal part of it in order to stack boons nicely. You can’t do that now so it’s worthless to me. The previous version had the amount of reward that made those risks and sacrifices worth it. Now it’s all risk and no reward so no thank you to the current version.

The heal itself is bad, 1 sec for 6k of healing 20s, it was barely used because Troll was demanding with the condi cleanse trait.

After patch was actually useful for certain builds and occasions, despite throwning away a pet and an entire line to get it works, it was worth because the duration was long enough to refresh during the combat.

Now is not worth because the duration isn’t enough to refresh during the combat, you need to have a perfect rotation to maintain a decent duration, even so the heal isn’t worth because it’s 1 sec 20 sec duration and it doesn’t give condi cleanse which is demanding in ranger.

I just want to know why did you cap the might to 3 stack, that’s all I want to know.

And please re think your answer because engi necro warrior and ele can stack all the might they want and they haven’t been nerfed.

Ok, feedback….the buffed WHaO was obviously overpowered. We expected a nerf. Anet just doesn’t go for stacking insane amounts of quickness (a big reason why ele warhorn was nerfed, funnily enough they kept might transferring there though). However, there is little to no reason to take away might stacking. Eles, warrs and necros can already might stack and some of them do it party wide. So why must this be taken away from the ranger’s WHaO? What is the reasoning behind this?

If we could get some insight or perhaps maybe some hints at other changes in the works for rangers that will help us? It doesn’t have to be about might stacking, just any info about stuff in the works that will improve things.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

…Also, is there any chance of an explanation for why rangers are prohibited from stacking might, but warriors, elementalists, necromancers, etc. are not?

Because all classes should not be the same. Why not let Thieves stack 25 might on themselves in seconds too?

If that is the case, then they should tone down the might stacking on the other classes as well to keep the balance.

Soo… How about we make skill functionality less… convoluted?
Once something has become, “Does X, restricted by Y, and only when Z, and if A is true then limit X further”, things have gone a bit far…

I really gotta wonder if We Heal as One was immediately thought by the devs to be overpowered AFTER it was put on the live servers, what kind of testing occurred in house? What kind of show is Anet trying to run?

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

…Also, is there any chance of an explanation for why rangers are prohibited from stacking might, but warriors, elementalists, necromancers, etc. are not?

Because all classes should not be the same. Why not let Thieves stack 25 might on themselves in seconds too?

Thieves have been in the sPvP meta permanently since the game was released while rangers have never been there? Thieves can get on-demand stealth and have insane mobility while rangers can’t and don’t? Rangers have the tools of a might stacking class, but without the might stacking.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Chrispy.5641:

Oberon Vex.1389:

Chrispy.5641:

Zalani.9827:

The thing is now I’m worried about how Druid is going to be handled post release of HoT.

Is other professions going to knee jerk a nerf to it because they don’t like the healing/etc?
I’m almost expecting it to get nerfed at this point, and I don’t think I am going to be surprised by this point if it did.
It’s been about 3 years now that I’m used to not being a wanted class in most game areas and being the most bottom level. I really love the class and it’s my most favorite one.
But I want to actually be an effective member of a team and not have such a bad stigma. It’s just tiring after a bit.

They (anet) tried already to justify the virtual perma daze with Druid and Celestial form, but they’ll quickly take that statement back and issue a nerf once every other class and “Rangers” start moaning about it. Meanwhile, us Rangers will wonder why we’re so hated and ignored….

With Moment of Clarity it is an AoE 6s daze on kitten cd. it will be changed.

Oh it totally will, however…..Roy really did try to justify the up-time already (without Moment of Clarity. I didn’t even think about that….), which means either the Druid will be nerfed, or Moment of Clarity will be nerfed, which will render many of our builds less effective. It will happen, no matter who says it wont.

Ya, well Lunar Impact should never have been made with such a Daze duration, if they nerf it by 50%, it will still be good.

And Ice Bow should have never been made with the damage it did, but it did, and it lasted….for three years….with dev after dev saying it was either fine or not commenting on it at all. How much do you want to bet that nothing on the Druid lasts even half as long? …But hey! It’ll still be good!…right?!?

meanwhile pets in the jade maw encounter get instakilled and eat precious focus from the boss making me regret bringing my ranger at all. pets instantly dying against mai trin. almost every single boss encounter in high level play has your pet die in unavoidable ways, leaving a kitten class that WILL contribute less than any other class. creating a situation where I am repeatedly kicked from parties before even entering the instance.

Us rangers desperately need some Pet AI fixes and some love please :x

Nerfed version of WHaO:
3 stacks of might, 2 secs protection, 2 secs quickness when copied.
Worthless.

It took Anet 4 months to nerf PU that can stack 2 mins Stealth.

It took Anet 4 months to nerf D/D which is God-Mode in PVP.

It took Anet ONE DAY, no testing, no wait and see, to nerf ranger.

It’s ok for Warrior to give permanent 25 stacks of might and fury TO THE WHOLE PARTY.

It’s ok for Guardian to give long-lasting stability, protection, quickness TO THE WHOLE PARTY

It’s ok for Ele to give Permanent 25 stacks might, fury, protection TO THE WHOLE PARTY.

Yet it’s NOT ok for ranger to give 25 stacks might. protection, quickness “TO HIMSELF ONLY” with “EXTREME TRADEOFF”, and “BOUND THE WEAPON AND UTILITY”

Btw, that build which utilize WHaO is actually trash. Worse than regular build.
Minimal cleanse, one trick pony, burn crucial skills (heal, QZ, stunbreak) just for boons, low damage weapon sets. (Axe main-hand damage is pathetic, and you need torch and war-horn as off-hand, so low damage off-hand too). Also need to bring that trash “Guard” for the protection, which does absolutely nothing without WHaO.

Yet Anet doesn’t even wait and see, just outright nerf it in one day.

All they did is watch some youtube video which stack quickness in PVE against unharmful mobs as show-case. (Yes, pet swap quickness requires you to stay in combat to work, so it means you can only stack quickness during combat, which is a death sentence because you’re wasting QZ and your pet to do that. Plus after swap, all your pet’s protection, fury, might all gone, so you have to use everything during combat and leave you vulnerable for 40 secs)

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

…Also, is there any chance of an explanation for why rangers are prohibited from stacking might, but warriors, elementalists, necromancers, etc. are not?

Because all classes should not be the same. Why not let Thieves stack 25 might on themselves in seconds too?

Thieves have been in the sPvP meta permanently since the game was released while rangers have never been there? Thieves can get on-demand stealth and have insane mobility while rangers can’t and don’t? Rangers have the tools of a might stacking class, but without the might stacking.

Thieves are in the meta simply because they have godlike mobility and can 2v1 quickly. They also push other zerk builds out of the meta because they can instagib them with little counter play. But all of the classes are supposed to be different. A game with 8 homogenous professions is boring. Ranger has a very unique flavor and with a few changes or simply with the introduction of the Druid it could be a lot better.

The mechanic really should have been preparations…the combat system just doesn’t work well with AI companions in many areas. Base everything around active defense such as dodge roll, then put a solid third of the ranger’s DPS and utility onto something that lacks that mechanic? Bad idea…

I’d say the durations on the boons (might not included) need to go up a bit. At least in pvp, the time it takes to cast leave plenty of time for an interrupt. Ideally, I think 20% the base skill duration (4 seconds) for each boon copied would good. More would also be appreciated because you already spend 1 second casting the WHaO.

I can kinda agree with the the 3 stacks of might, although I would have preferred 5 stacks. My main reason for this, is that you can’t really make use of multiple skills providing might. On pet swap, you can trait for 3 stacks of might. The new warhorn 5 grants 3 stacks of might. Axe 1 also grants a good stream of might. If the max might stack was greater than 3 (and plz dont just say 4 for argument’s sake), I could at least combo (sorta) multiple sources of might.

Also, if the heal were to have a longer cast time or cooldown, I think longer boon durations could also be justified.

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Only one god kitten damage modifier and can’t stack boons.

What use does this class have? Seriously the kitten anet?

Constructive feedback:

While the current fix stops the clearly toxic permanent quickness and Protection uptime, it is my opinion that the current fix does not suffice in regards to the intention of the original implementation — which was to allow the ranger to operate at an optimal range while still being able to gain the boons that are generated by those stacking on the boss/target. My stance is that this functionality should never have been implemented at all, least of all on a heal skill, but here are my suggestions.

It should have been tied to strength of the pack instead of We Heal as One — at least here it would serve as a temporary power spike due to the moderately long cooldown.

Failing this, it should have been a Grandmaster Trait using the Fortifying bond structure with modified values (50% increase across the board and without an internal cooldown).

My next suggestion would have been to add the caveat that any boon that is currently on the ranger, does not get copied from the pet — this would stop players from being able to double their quickness duration and limit the functionality to it’s intended purpose of giving the ranger the ability to be distanced from the rest of the party while keeping the party’s boons; Perma protection would still be possible via Guard, but this value could be shaved with little to no grumbling as it is an otherwise unused skill in the Ranger’s Kit — cutting it to 6s protection to pet would have been totally fine with most people, and would cut protection uptime to 50% (while still long, is not gamebreaking due to the investement in build/utilities).

There is no way this topic is staying meaningful. Can’t just tick off the community then expect everyone to focus on why they hate a single aspect of the class.

The fact is this. We had a CDI…how much of that got implemented?

I believe the answer is ‘very little’, so what is this thread going to do?

I hate to sound negative, and in all honesty I’ll still play the game.

I realize Ranger’s aren’t meta, so they are not a priority. I get that Druid is not what is selling HoT, and understand why it was last to be detailed. I understand that pet AI is fundamentally broken and would take too much effort to fix for too little gain.

I also understand just how much that sucks as a player.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Curious: I’m still at work. Have you guys played with WHaO yet since the change? I’ll be trotting out my Ranger tonight, but I wondered if you’re basing your thoughts on statistics — which I can respect — or on playtime — which also is valuable.

It’s outright worthless now.

It’s arguably useful, at best niche before the nerf.

You guys didn’t test it, didn’t wait and see, and outright nerf it. Now everyone will go back to TU. GJ anet.

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

Aomine.5012:

Nerfed version of WHaO:
3 stacks of might, 2 secs protection, 2 secs quickness when copied.
Worthless.

It took Anet 4 months to nerf PU that can stack 2 mins Stealth.

It took Anet 4 months to nerf D/D which is God-Mode in PVP.

It took Anet ONE DAY, no testing, no wait and see, to nerf ranger.

It’s ok for Warrior to give permanent 25 stacks of might and fury TO THE WHOLE PARTY.

It’s ok for Guardian to give long-lasting stability, protection, quickness TO THE WHOLE PARTY

It’s ok for Ele to give Permanent 25 stacks might, fury, protection TO THE WHOLE PARTY.

Yet it’s NOT ok for ranger to give 25 stacks might. protection, quickness “TO HIMSELF ONLY” with “EXTREME TRADEOFF”, and “BOUND THE WEAPON AND UTILITY”

Btw, that build which utilize WHaO is actually trash. Worse than regular build.
Minimal cleanse, one trick pony, burn crucial skills (heal, QZ, stunbreak) just for boons, low damage weapon sets. (Axe main-hand damage is pathetic, and you need torch and war-horn as off-hand, so low damage off-hand too). Also need to bring that trash “Guard” for the protection, which does absolutely nothing without WHaO.

Yet Anet doesn’t even wait and see, just outright nerf it in one day.

All they did is watch some youtube video which stack quickness in PVE against unharmful mobs as show-case. (Yes, pet swap quickness requires you to stay in combat to work, so it means you can only stack quickness during combat, which is a death sentence because you’re wasting QZ and your pet to do that. Plus after swap, all your pet’s protection, fury, might all gone, so you have to use everything during combat and leave you vulnerable for 40 secs)

Well said, one correction took 12 months to nerf d/d ele 25 stack

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

You didn’t even use that build, or care about ranger anyway.

Why bother responding at this point, since your wish of destroying ranger is granted?

They not only took away that “OMG SO OP QUICKNESS”, they also nerf everything else to the point that it’s worthless.

Just answer me this, would you HONESTLY click your heal bottom just for those little duration boons now? If not, this skill serve no purpose. Even an utility skill (7~9) works better than this.

I said this once I’ll say it again. Perma quickness was never a thing. I
Saw a pic of someone getting 1 min earlier and I don’t know how, but considering what you had to do to get16s alone you can bet your balls it wasn’t practical in any way

Fortifying bond and WHAO should work like this:

Keep copy functionality (i.e. boons with lower duration/intensity are not copied with the cap limits, boon duration affects boons, but they have a hard cap to prevent them from reapplying themselves:

Quickness (10s) up from 2s
Protection (10s) up from 2s
Resistance (3s) up from 2s
Fury (15s) up from 3s
Stability no time or stacks cap up from 3s and one stack
Swiftness (15s) up from 3s
Vigor (5s) up from 3s
Aegis (15s) up from 5s
Regeneration (15s)
Retaliation (5s) (no change)
Might no time or intensity cap up from 10s and 3 stacks cap

15s as a hard cap a general solution, as WHAO traited cd is 16s

Edit to take in consideration boons that do not stack over duration.

Elxdark.9702:

DaShi.1368:

Aomine.5012:

At this point it’s no longer about whether it’s a buff or nerf anymore.

It’s how Anet sees ranger.

No, it’s not. The trait was not acting as intended. I’m sorry that you feel that rangers need broken traits to be competitive, but Anet is going to fix these regardless of what class. Both guardians and engineers had traits disabled because they were not acting as intended. It has nothing to do with class preference, but instead appropriate game balance.

Please, explain us how it was so broken besides the quickness stack which was useless, unless you wanted to waste and entire line pet heal break stun and utility.

Please tell us, I’m very integrating.

It was broken because if you were able to in any way get 16s of ANY boon in the game on you applied by yourself OR ALLIES, you could permanently keep those boons up on the Ranger. That is not intended no matter how much you wish it to be so.

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.

apocalypso.4895:

Fortifying bond and WHAO should work like this:

Keep copy functionality (i.e. boons with lower duration/intensity are not copied with the cap limits, boon duration affects boons, but they have a hard cap to prevent them from reapplying themselves:

Quickness (10s) up from 2s
Protection (10s) up from 2s
Resistance (3s) up from 2s
Fury (15s) up from 3s
Stability (5s) 5 stacks up from 3s and one stack
Swiftness (15s) up from 3s
Vigor (5s) up from 3s
Aegis (15s) up from 5s
Regeneration (15s)
Retaliation (5s) (no change)
Might (15s) and no intensity cap up from 10 and 3 stacks cap

15s as a hard cap a general solution, as WHAO traited cd is 16s

Example: if my pet has 15 might for 24(s) and 6 stability stacks for 10 (s) the copy will transfer 15 might for (15 s) and 5 stability stacks for (5 s) to me.

This wouldn’t make the heal worth it. You need to precast this in a pattern, meaning you are dropping a lot of survive to support it, that means buffs need to be more reliable. These times won’t make the buffs reliable. You are giving up a lot to use it, other heals are much more useful and don’t put you at such a disadvantage.

DaShi.1368:

Aomine.5012:

At this point it’s no longer about whether it’s a buff or nerf anymore.

It’s how Anet sees ranger.

No, it’s not. The trait was not acting as intended. I’m sorry that you feel that rangers need broken traits to be competitive, but Anet is going to fix these regardless of what class. Both guardians and engineers had traits disabled because they were not acting as intended. It has nothing to do with class preference, but instead appropriate game balance.

Let’s not forget that it is still a buff from Heal As One.

The trait description was exactly “You each gain a copy of each other’s boons”. It didn’t LIST durations being flat, it wasnt specifically MENTIONED to have a table during the live stream or even the patch notes.

So the skill actually did exactly what it stated it would do. In fact, Im not sure you even know what was going on completely in the background to create such setups like 50% quickness duration or perma fury as you didn’t even call it a SKILL but instead called it a TRAIT. So while I understand that you believe balance has been done, You also need to understand this was not an unintended buff; it was intentional, but sadly Anet either didn’t do enough testing on the inside end to remove the idea of it before the patch went live, or they didnt allow enough time to monitor how it affected the game as a whole.

and honestly, the most it did was cause an uproar on PvP forums and a consideration for a meta position that was never given in PvE. Most of the action on the field was business as usual; rangers trying out ballsy specs and getting their face pushed in by players who realized how silly it all was to waste valuable pet swap CDs and utility CDs like stun breaks and condi cleanses for 14s of quickness and maybe 6 might.

Wolfs Shadow.7234:

Aomine.5012:

Nerfed version of WHaO:
3 stacks of might, 2 secs protection, 2 secs quickness when copied.
Worthless.

It took Anet 4 months to nerf PU that can stack 2 mins Stealth.

It took Anet 4 months to nerf D/D which is God-Mode in PVP.

It took Anet ONE DAY, no testing, no wait and see, to nerf ranger.

It’s ok for Warrior to give permanent 25 stacks of might and fury TO THE WHOLE PARTY.

It’s ok for Guardian to give long-lasting stability, protection, quickness TO THE WHOLE PARTY

It’s ok for Ele to give Permanent 25 stacks might, fury, protection TO THE WHOLE PARTY.

Yet it’s NOT ok for ranger to give 25 stacks might. protection, quickness “TO HIMSELF ONLY” with “EXTREME TRADEOFF”, and “BOUND THE WEAPON AND UTILITY”

Btw, that build which utilize WHaO is actually trash. Worse than regular build.
Minimal cleanse, one trick pony, burn crucial skills (heal, QZ, stunbreak) just for boons, low damage weapon sets. (Axe main-hand damage is pathetic, and you need torch and war-horn as off-hand, so low damage off-hand too). Also need to bring that trash “Guard” for the protection, which does absolutely nothing without WHaO.

Yet Anet doesn’t even wait and see, just outright nerf it in one day.

All they did is watch some youtube video which stack quickness in PVE against unharmful mobs as show-case. (Yes, pet swap quickness requires you to stay in combat to work, so it means you can only stack quickness during combat, which is a death sentence because you’re wasting QZ and your pet to do that. Plus after swap, all your pet’s protection, fury, might all gone, so you have to use everything during combat and leave you vulnerable for 40 secs)

Well said, one correction took 12 months to nerf d/d ele 25 stack

Heya guys, at least you could test your heal goodies before nerfed. Mesmer still hold the record. Duelist Discipline got nerfed before you could benefit from it. KappaPride.

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.

Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Curious: I’m still at work. Have you guys played with WHaO yet since the change? I’ll be trotting out my Ranger tonight, but I wondered if you’re basing your thoughts on statistics — which I can respect — or on playtime — which also is valuable.

Gaile on that same logic did the developers actually gather data on WHaO before they nerfed it? Or did they base their thoughts that it needed a nerf on complaints of other players? It seems hard for me that they were able to collect the data needed to justify a nerf in less than 24hrs. This was completely knee jerk. Why don’t we go back to the original skill, keep it a month, and then look at some metrics at the end of the month to see if it really did make the ranger ridiculously overpowered. My guess is, once people developed new builds based around the skill changes on the last patch and the experimentation with these changes settled down a little bit, the Ranger would probably have fit just fine in with every other class. Now we are nearly back to where we started on a patch that originally seemed like it was supposed to push us higher to be on par with other classes.

FJSAMA.2867:

Heya guys, at least you could test your heal goodies before nerfed. Mesmer still hold the record. Duelist Discipline got nerfed before you could benefit from it. KappaPride.

You mean like the original adapt tier Most Dangerous Game?

I understand the general need for the nerf. I understand not wanting to have 6 boons stacked for minutes on one ranger with little effort. I don’t think it was overpowered, but I see the need to turn it down.

That being said, I don’t understand why it had to be nerfed so heavily. I tried using it now, and it’s really not useful anymore, the boon durations are all ridiculously short. When you guys announced the change in the Twitchcon stream, you said that you were “Really excited about this one” but to be perfectly honest, it’s really dissappointing to me how quickly you completely reverse a change that’s positive for rangers that you apparently were so excited about. It really feels like ranger is getting no real love from the developers when stuff like this happens, and I know this is not what you want to communicate.

A more reasonable fix? Remove the might limit, restore the old functionality where the boon duration stays with the conversion, but limit it to a max of 10s for each boon. I know you probably don’t have the tech for stuff like that right now, but I don’t think the skill was so broken that it needed a 24h hotfix, especially considering other actual bugs that were left in the game for far longer.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Curious: I’m still at work. Have you guys played with WHaO yet since the change? I’ll be trotting out my Ranger tonight, but I wondered if you’re basing your thoughts on statistics — which I can respect — or on playtime — which also is valuable.

Played with it a bit, but it isn’t worth it. To get advantage of the boon share you would need to time things right, that means you might be wasting your heal or not using it to its full potential, this puts you at such a disadvantage that the benefits do not out weigh the negatives anymore.

Aomine.5012:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

You didn’t even use that build, or care about ranger anyway.

Why bother responding at this point, since your wish of destroying ranger is granted?

They not only took away that “OMG SO OP QUICKNESS”, they also nerf everything else to the point that it’s worthless.

Just answer me this, would you HONESTLY click your heal bottom just for those little duration boons now? If not, this skill serve no purpose. Even an utility skill (7~9) works better than this.

Um no as I argued throughout the whole thread (you just chose to ignore it the whole time) I would use WHaO as my heal skill when I need to heal, not precasted in fights by blowing all of my utility first, and would be happy to find that I at least got some Might and useful boons like prot even at short durations. Please stop baiting me, I already got infracted for responding to you and I apologize if you didn’t get to see that, but you are starting to annoy me with all of the personal attacks.

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.

They could just make it so it only copies boons while in combat. This would allow rangers to get stronger as the fight goes on, but prevent people from stacking so much that they enter fights fully buffed.

If people want to front load damage they have to deal with the risk vs. reward of blowing cooldowns and their heal to buff themselves when they first engage a fight. Otherwise they have to put a lot of thought into when they use their cooldowns and heal. Either way they wouldn’t have permanent boons.

One thing reading this thread has taught me is that unlike the other professions, many Ranger mains are self aware enough to admit that their stuff is overpowered when it is. Unfortunately, that right there is one of the reasons we’re weaker than everyone else is. Nowhere else will you ever see Warriors arguing against Warriors or Thieves arguing against Thieves on the finer points of one specific effect or other and how OP it is.

Disappointing “fix”. Very frustrating to main a profession that is treated this way.

Feedback…cap quickness, fine. Cap swiftness even, fine. Cap regen, ok. But the might cap, is ridiculous. There is simply no reason to do this. Especially compared to other professions.