Guild Wars 2

What guarantee do we have that they’ll read any of this?

It just seems to me (and I doubt I am alone in this) that the changes to ranger are often overly sudden and heavy handed, and there is very little (closer to none) communication on the direction and intention of the development going into the profession.

To be honest, it was an obviously broken trait. Ranger may need some support, but this was clearly wrong. What is also wrong is the personal attacks against the people who simply pointed this out.

Oberon Vex.1389:

Chrispy.5641:

Zalani.9827:

The thing is now I’m worried about how Druid is going to be handled post release of HoT.

Is other professions going to knee jerk a nerf to it because they don’t like the healing/etc?
I’m almost expecting it to get nerfed at this point, and I don’t think I am going to be surprised by this point if it did.
It’s been about 3 years now that I’m used to not being a wanted class in most game areas and being the most bottom level. I really love the class and it’s my most favorite one.
But I want to actually be an effective member of a team and not have such a bad stigma. It’s just tiring after a bit.

They (anet) tried already to justify the virtual perma daze with Druid and Celestial form, but they’ll quickly take that statement back and issue a nerf once every other class and “Rangers” start moaning about it. Meanwhile, us Rangers will wonder why we’re so hated and ignored….

With Moment of Clarity it is an AoE 6s daze on kitten cd. it will be changed.

Oh it totally will, however…..Roy really did try to justify the up-time already (without Moment of Clarity. I didn’t even think about that….), which means either the Druid will be nerfed, or Moment of Clarity will be nerfed, which will render many of our builds less effective. It will probably happen unfortunately.

At this point it’s no longer about whether it’s a buff or nerf anymore.

It’s how Anet sees ranger.

It’s the action that Anet takes that shocks me. Like ONE DAY patch on an already inferior, with minimal usage build, without the need of further testing because it’s ranger.

It took them 4 months to nerf PU that can stack 2 mins Stealth.

It took them 4 months to nerf D/D which is God-Mode in PVP.

It took them 1 day, no testing, no wait and see, to nerf ranger.

Btw, that build which utilize WHaO is actually trash. Worse than regular build.
Minimal cleanse, one trick pony, burn crucial skills (heal, QZ, stunbreak) just for boons, low damage weapon sets. (Axe main-hand damage is pathetic, and you need torch and war-horn as off-hand, so low damage off-hand too). Also need to bring that trash “Guard” for the protection, which does absolutely nothing without WHaO.

Yet Anet doesn’t even wait and see, just outright nerf it in one day.

Explain how it is broken when the only way you go might was Cele Amy and Holbrak type runes,

Ignore the quickness because obviously any viable build didn’t work to use quickness upkeep unless you ran a kitteny build that didn’t work to have quickness

Mcrocha.3891:

Again, it is also the case that a Heal skill that had no added functionality before the patch now has a nice little buff that it didn’t have before.

They could have kept their ‘nice little buff’ and just used that time to communicate to the community in clear precise language what they want from the profession instead of causing a skritt storm with knee-jerk reactions. At this point I would rather see the skill reverted to its pre-patch state.

How about 1 of the dev’s actually drops in and contributes. Maybe they can explain why they have left ranger as the bottom tier class since launch, or why they felt the need to nerf a buff without giving it even 24 hours to see how things played out.

DaShi.1368:

It was an obviously broken trait. Ranger may need some support, but this was clearly wrong. What is also wrong is the personal attacks against the people who simply pointed this out.

was it so wrong to stack might in a proper way?
is it was really that wrong for you friend?
but warrior necro ele engi might stacking isn’t wrong for you right?

Because that why rangers are complaining, it’s because they capped the MIGHT stack to 3 for heal while warriors necros eles and engis can have all the might they want.

The double standard of anet is so obvious, just say it straight you hate rangers so they can reroll to other classes.

Gail appreciation train coming through.

Choo-Choo!

I really wish they’d talk to us. On here and not on twitter. Communication is something desperately needed. I know things are kind of ragey right now, so maybe they are too scared and want to wait for things to cool down a bit.

Roy, Roy I wanna believe. ;-; You gave me such hope with the amazingly wonderful revenant. Please help rangers.

I know I’m just another voice in the crowd, but my 2 cents is this.
I tried to play this crazy boon share in pvp, and got shut down immediately every time by boon corrupt or just heavy condi w/o cleanse on my build. i don’t miss it at all.

But the thing that hurts is the sheer response time to smack it down. we have had unresponsive and weak pets for a long time and 2 sets of utilities (spirits and shouts) that are ALMOST useless or at least very niche since launch.

Builds that DOMINATE pvp have been around for months with little to no response, builds that not only stack 25 might easily BUT also do it for the group. rangers had huge uptime on boons, sure, but only for us and the pet. Barely game breaking.
Also its 02:30 for me so please excuse any rambling or bad english :x

Aomine.5012:

At this point it’s no longer about whether it’s a buff or nerf anymore.

It’s how Anet sees ranger.

No, it’s not. The trait was not acting as intended. I’m sorry that you feel that rangers need broken traits to be competitive, but Anet is going to fix these regardless of what class. Both guardians and engineers had traits disabled because they were not acting as intended. It has nothing to do with class preference, but instead appropriate game balance.

Let’s not forget that it is still a buff from Heal As One.

It should have just been changed to copy only 3 seconds of quickness. The only thing even remotely strong about it was the 18 seconds of quickness you could get. The might was a non-issue.

Gaile Gray.6029:

oshilator.4681:

What guarantee do we have that they’ll read any of this?

Because one of the key designers stood at my desk 20 minutes ago and told me. I trust him. I hope you trust me enough to know I wouldn’t say this if it wasn’t true: This thread will be read.

But again, constructive is the key, and I’m hoping that people won’t continue to flare, but will give good, substantive feedback.

Fair enough, and I can accept that.

I just would like to know the reasoning behind capping the might at 3 stacks on WHaO.

Gaile Gray.6029:

xarallei.4279:

I really wish they’d talk to us. On here and not on twitter. Communication is something desperately needed.

Yes, talking here is much more valuable, and I believe this is where the meaningful discussion will take place.

Hey gail my original post is on page 7 near the bottom. however I have already remade my post at the suggestion of other members of this forum. If the post could be restored inside that one it would be incredible but ill understand if thats not possible.

DaShi.1368:

Aomine.5012:

At this point it’s no longer about whether it’s a buff or nerf anymore.

It’s how Anet sees ranger.

No, it’s not. The trait was not acting as intended. I’m sorry that you feel that rangers need broken traits to be competitive, but Anet is going to fix these regardless of what class. Both guardians and engineers had traits disabled because they were not acting as intended. It has nothing to do with class preference, but instead appropriate game balance.

And like always, they destroy it as compensation.

3 stacks might, 2 secs protection, 2 secs quickness.

Happy now?

It’s not even useful to begin with pre-nerf. TU is a much reliable heal and cleanse.

Tweak the base durations please. Please. Near-useless for most.

Suggestions:

‘We Heal as One!’

The boon copy effect is very interesting, but with the new flat duration, you can’t even ‘feel’ the boons. Little tweaks could give a bit of punch without breaking the game;

• Quickness – From 2 to 4s
• Protection – From 2 to 4s
• Resistance – From 2 to 4s
• Fury – From 3 to 8s
• Stability – From 3 to 6s (it’s just 1 stack after all… A change that wasn’t mentioned as it would copy all stacks of stability before the sept 30 patch)
• Swiftness – From 3 to 8s
• Vigor – From 3 to 8s
• Aegis – From 5s to 8s
• Regeneration – from 5 to 8s
• Retaliation – 5s is perfect
• Might – For this one, either keep its 3 stacks limit but make it 15s or lower its duration to 8s but remove the stack limit.

DaShi.1368:

Aomine.5012:

At this point it’s no longer about whether it’s a buff or nerf anymore.

It’s how Anet sees ranger.

No, it’s not. The trait was not acting as intended. I’m sorry that you feel that rangers need broken traits to be competitive, but Anet is going to fix these regardless of what class. Both guardians and engineers had traits disabled because they were not acting as intended. It has nothing to do with class preference, but instead appropriate game balance.

Please, explain us how it was so broken besides the quickness stack which was useless, unless you wanted to waste and entire line pet heal break stun and utility.

Please tell us, I’m very integrating.

Chrispy.5641:

Oberon Vex.1389:

Chrispy.5641:

Zalani.9827:

The thing is now I’m worried about how Druid is going to be handled post release of HoT.

Is other professions going to knee jerk a nerf to it because they don’t like the healing/etc?
I’m almost expecting it to get nerfed at this point, and I don’t think I am going to be surprised by this point if it did.
It’s been about 3 years now that I’m used to not being a wanted class in most game areas and being the most bottom level. I really love the class and it’s my most favorite one.
But I want to actually be an effective member of a team and not have such a bad stigma. It’s just tiring after a bit.

They (anet) tried already to justify the virtual perma daze with Druid and Celestial form, but they’ll quickly take that statement back and issue a nerf once every other class and “Rangers” start moaning about it. Meanwhile, us Rangers will wonder why we’re so hated and ignored….

With Moment of Clarity it is an AoE 6s daze on kitten cd. it will be changed.

Oh it totally will, however…..Roy really did try to justify the up-time already (without Moment of Clarity. I didn’t even think about that….), which means either the Druid will be nerfed, or Moment of Clarity will be nerfed, which will render many of our builds less effective. It will happen, no matter who says it wont.

Ya, well Lunar Impact should never have been made with such a Daze duration, if they nerf it by 50%, it will still be good.

Gaile Gray.6029:

xarallei.4279:

I really wish they’d talk to us. On here and not on twitter. Communication is something desperately needed.

Yes, talking here is much more valuable, and I believe this is where the meaningful discussion will take place.

Dang Gaile you’re working overtime huh? Well here’s hoping that rangers do get the help they need after so long.

Personally I just want the class fixed in general.

Gaile Gray.6029:

xarallei.4279:

I really wish they’d talk to us. On here and not on twitter. Communication is something desperately needed.

Yes, talking here is much more valuable, and I believe this is where the meaningful discussion will take place.

A discussion needs to be more than one sided. We have been talking into the void for years and the only response we see are streams where they are joking about bearbows and making terrible balance decisions on the fly.

If the devs are reading this stop cowboying do some structured code reviews and stop the churn. Your managers are giving you way too much slack.

You just kittened off a bunch of people with this flip flop.

Gaile Gray.6029:

xarallei.4279:

I really wish they’d talk to us. On here and not on twitter. Communication is something desperately needed.

Yes, talking here is much more valuable, and I believe this is where the meaningful discussion will take place.

You mean like that meaningful discussion about this that took place on Roy’s twitter about how he’s going to “fix” the skill without any input by us?

AgitatedFox.5287:

Shade, do not be discouraged. I sent this thread to Roy on twitter and he reaponded saying “I work on all combat/profession things. All skills/combat designers are involved in the design of each profession.. I agree ranger shouts need some work though, I’ll take a look at the suggestions.”

THIS IS PROGRESS

They’ve been saying that for years, and look how it has gone: rangers are still inferior, and always have been, yet are still the ones getting nerfed more harshly and completely than anyone else.

To Roy: Boon sharing with pets needs to be incorporated somehow, and not just as a Nature Magic gimmick which wrecks your build to take. Obviously sharing won’t do it, because for some unfathomable reason you don’t want rangers stacking might. The best suggestion that I’ve seen is to make ranger and pet share a pool of boons: any boon that either receives is put into the pool, when there are duplicates (same boon, same source), only one copy is accepted. This ‘pool’ would be attached to the ranger, the pet would have no buffs on it separate from the ranger, but would instead get the effects of the ranger’s boons.

Also, is there any chance of an explanation for why rangers are prohibited from stacking might, but warriors, elementalists, necromancers, etc. are not?

zapv.8051:

It should have just been changed to copy only 3 seconds of quickness. The only thing even remotely strong about it was the 18 seconds of quickness you could get. The might was a non-issue.

It seems to ANET the might stacking was indeed a such broken mechanic and they had to cap it asap.

How ironic.

Elxdark.9702:

DaShi.1368:

Aomine.5012:

At this point it’s no longer about whether it’s a buff or nerf anymore.

It’s how Anet sees ranger.

No, it’s not. The trait was not acting as intended. I’m sorry that you feel that rangers need broken traits to be competitive, but Anet is going to fix these regardless of what class. Both guardians and engineers had traits disabled because they were not acting as intended. It has nothing to do with class preference, but instead appropriate game balance.

Please, explain us how it was so broken besides the quickness stack which was useless, unless you wanted to waste and entire line pet heal break stun and utility.

Please tell us, I’m very integrating.

He can’t because he didn’t even test it.

All he did is watch some youtube video which stack quickness in PVE against unharmful mobs as show-case. (Yes, pet swap quickness requires you to stay in combat to work, so it means you can only stack quickness during combat, which is a death sentence because you’re wasting QZ and your pet to do that. Plus after swap, all your pet’s protection, fury, might all gone, so you have to use everything during combat and leave you vulnerable for 40 secs)

Heal as One was a Burst healing skill that we used only when our health was low enough. When the boon copying effect was added, it gave Rangers an opportunity to premeditate the use of the skill, sometimes not getting healed at all in exchange for a large power-up from the pet.

The Nerf turned the skill back into what it was before, giving us only the first option. None of the boons last long enough to take advantage of. Here are three possible solutions :::

1) Make effect only apply in combat. This way Rangers can’t pre-load a bunch of quickness for cheap shots and even cheaper kills. This will allow the Ranger to gain some pretty extreme power as the fight goes on, but honestly, its the fault of the enemy player if they can’t kill the Ranger before this happens.

2) Increase boon duration. Fortifying Bond’s durations aren’t long enough to take advantage of any of them. Actually, they barely last long enough (except might) for the pet to take advantage of. Combining both effects actually gives the pet some pretty powerful stuff, but not the Ranger…..On Heal as One….Doubling some boons, and Tripling others will allow us to take proper advantage of the effect and will add back the premeditation that was with the old effect. Basically this :::::

ProtoMarcus.7649:

Tweak the base durations please. Please. Near-useless for most.

Suggestions:

‘We Heal as One!’

The boon copy effect is very interesting, but with the new flat duration, you can’t even ‘feel’ the boons. Little tweaks could give a bit of punch without breaking the game;

• Quickness – From 2 to 4s
• Protection – From 2 to 4s
• Resistance – From 2 to 4s
• Fury – From 3 to 8s
• Stability – From 3 to 6s (it’s just 1 stack after all… A change that wasn’t mentioned as it would copy all stacks of stability before the sept 30 patch)
• Swiftness – From 3 to 8s
• Vigor – From 3 to 8s
• Aegis – From 5s to 8s
• Regeneration – from 5 to 8s
• Retaliation – 5s is perfect
• Might – For this one, either keep its 3 stacks limit but make it 15s or lower its duration to 8s but remove the stack limit.

3) Give back all Might stacks instead of limiting it to 3. And Combine this with fix number 2. Almost every other profession can stack more might, faster, and for longer with fewer important skill uses and key presses than this required. And some professions can give a party of 5 players more might, faster, and for longer with fewer important skill uses and key presses than this required. Why are Rangers not allowed to maintain might even on themselves?

Like they will read any of this massive thread, are you kidding? Devs have been ignoring this forum for years now, what will change now? Screw this class, it’s simply time to reroll to ele and actually be relevant in all game modes.

Bran.7425:

Mcrocha.3891:

Again, it is also the case that a Heal skill that had no added functionality before the patch now has a nice little buff that it didn’t have before.

They could have kept their ‘nice little buff’ and just used that time to communicate to the community in clear precise language what they want from the profession instead of causing a skritt storm with knee-jerk reactions. At this point I would rather see the skill reverted to its pre-patch state.

The behavior of the ranger community is not Anet’s fault. They need to take responsibility for their own actions. The way some people were treated over this skill was uncalled for. It’s a shame that Anet had to close a thread because of such behavior.

Alright well let’s discuss, a full explanation in complete detail in why these changes were made, why was ranger boons were discussed on Twitter rather than the ranger community to begin with, why was the inherent issues of “boon duration” discussed via Twitter only to have two side changes made on top of those durations made without announcement ANYWHERE?

I hope you understand how disrespected and shocked many of of us are, hundreds? Thousands of us. I hope you realize that some of them don’t want to stand up but that’s why those of us who will fight for those who can’t are right here to stand up against this unjust treatment. We diserve better than a Twitter feed.

How about reverting the buffs on WHaO to its previous state, and make a new heal from scratch, a Signet which as passive would transfer all your pet’s might/swift/prot to yourself and vice-versa (make it a pulse if you want), and a mediocre heal as an active.

Look at all the red posts. Let this night go down in history as The Ranger Riots of 1328 AE.

Mcrocha.3891:

Look at all the red posts. Let this night go down in history as The Ranger Riots of 1328 AE.

If nothing else, this should entice the devs to give the class the same treatment Mesmers received in GW1.

I’d like to know a response of this dev Roy, I’d like to know why he did cap the might to 3.

They don’t come because of the whining, I see that now.

ProtoMarcus.7649:

Tweak the base durations please. Please. Near-useless for most.

Suggestions:

‘We Heal as One!’

The boon copy effect is very interesting, but with the new flat duration, you can’t even ‘feel’ the boons. Little tweaks could give a bit of punch without breaking the game;

• Quickness – From 2 to 4s
• Protection – From 2 to 4s
• Resistance – From 2 to 4s
• Fury – From 3 to 8s
• Stability – From 3 to 6s (it’s just 1 stack after all… A change that wasn’t mentioned as it would copy all stacks of stability before the sept 30 patch)
• Swiftness – From 3 to 8s
• Vigor – From 3 to 8s
• Aegis – From 5s to 8s
• Regeneration – from 5 to 8s
• Retaliation – 5s is perfect
• Might – For this one, either keep its 3 stacks limit but make it 15s or lower its duration to 8s but remove the stack limit.

Best suggestion i’ve seen. +1 although I feel like the current change was far too heavy handed. the might stack limit should be removed, this is a self stacking ability and does nothing to “break” the overall game. also the skill only works when the pet is in range, alive, and has received boons. WHaO is so dependent on a very rigid set of conditions that nerfing it into uselessness just doesn’t make sense. the builds that would benefit from it most would be ones using suboptimal runes, suboptimal sigils and a build that does not focus on dps therefore not making the best use of the boons.

Edit: another option would be to return WHaO to its original form and make invigorating bond baseline.

DaShi.1368:

Aomine.5012:

At this point it’s no longer about whether it’s a buff or nerf anymore.

It’s how Anet sees ranger.

No, it’s not. The trait was not acting as intended. I’m sorry that you feel that rangers need broken traits to be competitive, but Anet is going to fix these regardless of what class. Both guardians and engineers had traits disabled because they were not acting as intended. It has nothing to do with class preference, but instead appropriate game balance.

Let’s not forget that it is still a buff from Heal As One.

What part of it wasn’t working as intended? It did exactly what they said it would. Or is your argument that they have ignored ranger for so long they didn’t realize what boons we put on the pet?

Gaile Gray.6029:

We have forums for a reason. While Twitter is great for a lot of things, for something of this depthy, you can’t have a meaningful discussion at 140 characters.

If you have feedback, place it here. Don’t ping devs on Twitter or other places — just share your thoughts here!

lol are you serious? then how come we did know about this inc nerf/fix from twitter? lmao.

Mcrocha.3891:

Look at all the red posts. Let this night go down in history as The Ranger Riots of 1328 AE.

And rightly so.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Curious: I’m still at work. Have you guys played with WHaO yet since the change? I’ll be trotting out my Ranger tonight, but I wondered if you’re basing your thoughts on statistics — which I can respect — or on playtime — which also is valuable.

Both. I’ve played for a bit on my ranger with the old functionality and again since the change.

In all honesty a buff to We Heal as One is not what was needed. It’s the plethora of other skills and traits that need tuning.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Curious: I’m still at work. Have you guys played with WHaO yet since the change? I’ll be trotting out my Ranger tonight, but I wondered if you’re basing your thoughts on statistics — which I can respect — or on playtime — which also is valuable.

Yes I have Gail. Quickness and Protection and.. you know what? All boon duration are too short. Can’t help but feel that this was a bit heavy handed knee jerk reaction to this by Anet Dev(s). I’m in game right now and I… just have no words.

(insert Matrix’s Not like this meme here)