Guild Wars 2

Title speaks for itself I think…

Rangers were in a bad spot to begin with, but at least they had 2 main reasons to be a part of end game runs. Now one of them is gone…

Frost spirit just went from 7% party damage increase, to 0.7%, thus making the trait absolutelly useless…

It needs to go back to it’s previous state.

/signed if you agree.

/signed

I vote to either revert changes or rename the skill to Smiter’s Boon.

Sins.4782:

I vote to either revert changes or rename the skill to Smiter’s Boon.

Laughing irl, ty.

+1 to the topic though.

Yeah, +1.

This, very very much indeed.

loged just for this.

/Signed all over the kitten wall

Not really, after running full zerker in WvW for a few hours it is pretty clear our damage output is very high. I don’t have any numbers, but a lot of bewildered bags to show for it… Pretty sure the frosty nerf was intentional, much like FGS alterations.

ANet wants people to use dungeons to learn team play, I think. Speed running dungeons is fine, but standing against walls and bursting things down too fast is too easy and doesn’t do much to teach team play. I think they are trying to make it so even the best groups will have to deal with dungeon boss mechanics, at least once, before squashing ‘em. Not really a big change. It’s not like we are going to be totally outclasses by anything at this point.

If the change was intentional, it goes against their entire “shaving” balance philosophy. ANet usually tries to balance skills by slightly adjusting numbers with a foam nerf bat, not a ten tonne hammer pounding them into the ground.

Sins.4782:

If the change was intentional, it goes against their entire “shaving” balance philosophy. ANet usually tries to balance skills by slightly adjusting numbers with a foam nerf bat, not a ten tonne hammer pounding them into the ground.

This. Its basically been locked in a chest, blown up by missiles, then tossed into the sun at this point. There’s nothing left.

I’m still guessing it was unintentional, though. Seems like a situation where it might have been “fixed” as they were doing last minute bug fixes without actually looking at what was being fixed. Someone happened to notice it was listed as having an ICD but didn’t actually have one and said “Oh, that’s not right, fix that” without actually looking at what was being changed or the implications it would have. Or perhaps someone was told to fix it but something was lost in translation and they fixed the wrong part (if they were told, for example, to make the description and the functionality match and it was intended that they remove the text from the tooltip, but instead they changed the functionality).

Archon.6480:

Not really, after running full zerker in WvW for a few hours it is pretty clear our damage output is very high. I don’t have any numbers, but a lot of bewildered bags to show for it… Pretty sure the frosty nerf was intentional, much like FGS alterations.

ANet wants people to use dungeons to learn team play, I think. Speed running dungeons is fine, but standing against walls and bursting things down too fast is too easy and doesn’t do much to teach team play. I think they are trying to make it so even the best groups will have to deal with dungeon boss mechanics, at least once, before squashing ‘em. Not really a big change. It’s not like we are going to be totally outclasses by anything at this point.

Any person trying a speedrun wouldn’t take a ranger, so the nerf to frost spirit isn’t a speedrun thing. Their only niche use was offensive support with some particular skills ( axe 4,axe 5, fire fields, great immob uptime mainly). The best groups have to deal with dungeon mechanics, and they had to before. We had to deal with them for 2 years, so we developped faster ways to achieve something. This has nothing to do with the frost spirit nerf. It just destroys ranger viability in dungeons, and enforcing the selfish bearbow playstyle.

oxtred.7658:

Archon.6480:

Not really, after running full zerker in WvW for a few hours it is pretty clear our damage output is very high. I don’t have any numbers, but a lot of bewildered bags to show for it… Pretty sure the frosty nerf was intentional, much like FGS alterations.

ANet wants people to use dungeons to learn team play, I think. Speed running dungeons is fine, but standing against walls and bursting things down too fast is too easy and doesn’t do much to teach team play. I think they are trying to make it so even the best groups will have to deal with dungeon boss mechanics, at least once, before squashing ‘em. Not really a big change. It’s not like we are going to be totally outclasses by anything at this point.

Any person trying a speedrun wouldn’t take a ranger, so the nerf to frost spirit isn’t a speedrun thing. Their only niche use was offensive support with some particular skills ( axe 4,axe 5, fire fields, great immob uptime mainly). The best groups have to deal with dungeon mechanics, and they had to before. We had to deal with them for 2 years, so we developped faster ways to achieve something. This has nothing to do with the frost spirit nerf. It just destroys ranger viability in dungeons, and enforcing the selfish bearbow playstyle.

It was a speedrun thing. A skilled sword ranger was better than a second warrior in almost all cases. Ofc pug groups didn’t take rangers, because most of them are bearbows & it’s a chore to deal with them. Speedclear records were made with 1 ranger in the party.

Sina.9208:

oxtred.7658:

Archon.6480:

Not really, after running full zerker in WvW for a few hours it is pretty clear our damage output is very high. I don’t have any numbers, but a lot of bewildered bags to show for it… Pretty sure the frosty nerf was intentional, much like FGS alterations.

ANet wants people to use dungeons to learn team play, I think. Speed running dungeons is fine, but standing against walls and bursting things down too fast is too easy and doesn’t do much to teach team play. I think they are trying to make it so even the best groups will have to deal with dungeon boss mechanics, at least once, before squashing ‘em. Not really a big change. It’s not like we are going to be totally outclasses by anything at this point.

Any person trying a speedrun wouldn’t take a ranger, so the nerf to frost spirit isn’t a speedrun thing. Their only niche use was offensive support with some particular skills ( axe 4,axe 5, fire fields, great immob uptime mainly). The best groups have to deal with dungeon mechanics, and they had to before. We had to deal with them for 2 years, so we developped faster ways to achieve something. This has nothing to do with the frost spirit nerf. It just destroys ranger viability in dungeons, and enforcing the selfish bearbow playstyle.

It was a speedrun thing. A skilled sword ranger was better than a second warrior in almost all cases. Ofc pug groups didn’t take rangers, because most of them are bearbows & it’s a chore to deal with them. Speedclear records were made with 1 ranger in the party.

Pretty much this. They nerfed a group buff to give a self buff… that’s the problem…

An ele was better than a ranger in all cases. I can’t think of any record with a ranger in it pre patch, and even if there’s one, about all the records were done without. Obviously a ranger was better than a 2nd warrior. Everything is better than a 2nd warrior…

oxtred.7658:

An ele was better than a ranger in all cases. I can’t think of any record with a ranger in it pre patch, and even if there’s one, about all the records were done without. Obviously a ranger was better than a 2nd warrior. Everything is better than a 2nd warrior…

Think about this for a moment. If you ran 2 eles you often had 4x FGS in a fight. Frost spirit was a nice boost to the dmg of those fiery g swords + ranger used to be one of the best of not the best FGS holders, simply because you could boost the dmg with the active effect of signet of the wild + your cat kept attacking at the same time.

About world records here is one from a year ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWQ-39_C8LI

Sina.9208:

oxtred.7658:

An ele was better than a ranger in all cases. I can’t think of any record with a ranger in it pre patch, and even if there’s one, about all the records were done without. Obviously a ranger was better than a 2nd warrior. Everything is better than a 2nd warrior…

Think about this for a moment. If you ran 2 eles you often had 4x FGS in a fight. Frost spirit was a nice boost to the dmg of those fiery g swords + ranger used to be one of the best of not the best FGS holders, simply because you could boost the dmg with the active effect of signet of the wild + your cat kept attacking at the same time.

About world records here is one from a year ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWQ-39_C8LI

Wich was beaten here without a ranger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ps-GgeYdepQ

Anyway, I’m aware of what rangers could bring in a speedrun. What I’m saying is, they were already few reasons to take a ranger over a 3rd/4th ele, and they just totally destroyed the viability of the class in pve. Frost spirit was the only thing that kept rangers in an average spot, and it was already nerfed relatively by the fgs nerf ( less party dps> less need for a party boost over a personal dps boost> rangers are nerfed). A buff worth less than a vuln stack is stupid.

oxtred.7658:

Sina.9208:

oxtred.7658:

An ele was better than a ranger in all cases. I can’t think of any record with a ranger in it pre patch, and even if there’s one, about all the records were done without. Obviously a ranger was better than a 2nd warrior. Everything is better than a 2nd warrior…

Think about this for a moment. If you ran 2 eles you often had 4x FGS in a fight. Frost spirit was a nice boost to the dmg of those fiery g swords + ranger used to be one of the best of not the best FGS holders, simply because you could boost the dmg with the active effect of signet of the wild + your cat kept attacking at the same time.
About world records here is one from a year ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWQ-39_C8LI

Wich was beaten here without a ranger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ps-GgeYdepQ

Anyway, I’m aware of what rangers could bring in a speedrun. What I’m saying is, they were already few reasons to take a ranger over a 3rd/4th ele, and they just totally destroyed the viability of the class in pve. Frost spirit was the only thing that kept rangers in an average spot, and it was already nerfed relatively by the fgs nerf ( less party dps> less need for a party boost over a personal dps boost> rangers are nerfed). A buff worth less than a vuln stack is stupid.

Alright you have a point with the world record thing. Anyhow today someone told me that due to the FS nerf they don’t want me to part-take in their speed clear AC run & this hasn’t happened before. Yeah sure 4warriors+1 mes CoF pugs not wanting me was always normal, but this really made me sad. I spend most of my time in Gw2 with dungeons & now my main which I invested a ridiculous amount of time to make pretty is useless.

The saddest part is, they are right. There’s no point taking a ranger in any run, except if we find a niche use to any of their specific skills ( something around pets triggering something, I don’t know). So, if they could fix frost spirit, that would be great.

oxtred.7658:

The saddest part is, they are right. There’s no point taking a ranger in any run, except if we find a niche use to any of their specific skills ( something around pets triggering something, I don’t know). So, if they could fix frost spirit, that would be great.

There is no evidence that anyone that has the power to help us is actually reading the Ranger subforums .d

Sina.9208:

oxtred.7658:

The saddest part is, they are right. There’s no point taking a ranger in any run, except if we find a niche use to any of their specific skills ( something around pets triggering something, I don’t know). So, if they could fix frost spirit, that would be great.

There is no evidence that anyone that has a power to help us is actually reading the Ranger subforums .d

The thread in Profession Balance seems to have been ignored as well. I’ll make a reddit post about it in a day or so once the whole leveling thing calms down. A post in the GW2 Discussion forum might be good as well, but I get the feeling it would fall off the front page too quickly (or be moved).

/signed

I don’t see any reason why they nerfed the spirits. They weren’t op at all…

Well hell, I guess I’ll +1 this. Anet is probably overwhelmed with kittenstorms at the moment and they don’t read this forum anyway, but this issue is particularly aggravating to me.

Edit: Kittenstorms sound adoooorable.

Sina.9208:

oxtred.7658:

Sina.9208:

oxtred.7658:

An ele was better than a ranger in all cases. I can’t think of any record with a ranger in it pre patch, and even if there’s one, about all the records were done without. Obviously a ranger was better than a 2nd warrior. Everything is better than a 2nd warrior…

Think about this for a moment. If you ran 2 eles you often had 4x FGS in a fight. Frost spirit was a nice boost to the dmg of those fiery g swords + ranger used to be one of the best of not the best FGS holders, simply because you could boost the dmg with the active effect of signet of the wild + your cat kept attacking at the same time.
About world records here is one from a year ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWQ-39_C8LI

Wich was beaten here without a ranger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ps-GgeYdepQ

Anyway, I’m aware of what rangers could bring in a speedrun. What I’m saying is, they were already few reasons to take a ranger over a 3rd/4th ele, and they just totally destroyed the viability of the class in pve. Frost spirit was the only thing that kept rangers in an average spot, and it was already nerfed relatively by the fgs nerf ( less party dps> less need for a party boost over a personal dps boost> rangers are nerfed). A buff worth less than a vuln stack is stupid.

Alright you have a point with the world record thing. Anyhow today someone told me that due to the FS nerf they don’t want me to part-take in their speed clear AC run & this hasn’t happened before. Yeah sure 4warriors+1 mes CoF pugs not wanting me was always normal, but this really made me sad. I spend most of my time in Gw2 with dungeons & now my main which I invested a ridiculous amount of time to make pretty is useless.

LOL that’s sad, I did a tour with my regular party taking 1-2 pugs on my ranger yesterday.

I didn’t notice slower clear times in AC and lower level dungs, picked up the Frost Bow and the dps with the new modifiers is great against big targets.

That being said, 80 dungeons were slower but it could be FGS.

The main selling point of no ICD Frost Spirit was FGS. FGS hits alot of times in a small period of time so the 10% modifier trigger on Frost Spirit was huge. After the FGS nerf it isn’t so much unless you have TW on your party on a short encounter.

Don’t get me wrong, I still want no ICD Frost Spirit back or even a 1s ICD just not 10s ICD lol.

/signed

The PvE ranger would be in a good spot with the old Frost Spirit back. Its personal single target dps post-patch is pretty good when adding Barrage and Rapid Fire from longbow into the equation before swapping to sword+axe. In that regard, the ranger has been given a pretty huge buff to its personal dps at the cost of the frost spirit. A bad trade off overall, but at least a “low personal dps” isn’t a problem anymore.

Wether the frost spirit gets fixed back to its former self or not, it needs some sort of change from what it is now. It’s just really bad at the moment. My guess would be that they revisit the spirit(s) in their next balance patch… Wouldn’t surprise me if they cut back on some of the buffs the ranger got in the meantime…

Lazze.9870:

/signed

My guess would be that they revisit the spirit(s) in their next balance patch… Wouldn’t surprise me if they cut back on some of the buffs the ranger got in the mean time…

(Frost spirit is still the same after today’s bugfix patch. )

I won’t be hanging around until the next feature pack

Frost Spirit has to be fixed, Ranger needs it to be viable in PvE.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Frost spirit just went from 7% party damage increase, to 0.7%, thus making the trait absolutelly useless…

Not seeing this listed in the patch notes…

You DO know that Anet has a very long history of misplacing Decimals accidentally…

…right? *(except Smiter’s Boon, that was the only time is was completely intentional)

ilr.9675:

Not seeing this listed in the patch notes…

You DO know that Anet has a very long history of misplacing Decimals accidentally…

…right? *(except Smiter’s Boon, that was the only time is was completely intentional)

I was just about to make a Boon comment…

I would like to point out that frost spirit was not, and is not the only thing a ranger brings to a party. Post update, a ranger has huge ability to DPS. Especially in short fights (yes, we arent going to get kills on the same timeframe as FGS, but ignoring that). If a fight lasts less then 10 seconds, I think we have some of the highest potential DPS (due to longbow buffs, & sotw)

I’d like to mention that frost spirit wasn’t nerfed it was just fixed so the ICD actually was there. In other words, they fixed a bug that made our most useless spirit good, so now it’s absolute kitten.

I didn’t use Frost Spirit for the longest time due to it looking like a kitten skill from the beginning (10% damage every 10s didn’t appeal to me lol), but now that it’s fixed and Anet can realize how stupid the kittening thing is maybe they’ll buff it in 6 months…. Or rework spirits completely, I mean either one will make me happy.

Durzlla.6295:

I’d like to mention that frost spirit wasn’t nerfed it was just fixed so the ICD actually was there.

We all know that. What Anet seems to have missed is that even one of their own devs has stated that the skill is supposed to be a 7 % damage buff for the party. So their “fix” hardly looks like a fix at all. More like a screw up.

Wraith.9426:

Frost Spirit has to be fixed, Ranger needs it to be viable in PvE.

I think people need to rethink their use of the word “viable”. Rangers are still very viable for PvE.

Spotter alone may not be much as far as group buffs goes (and most of our other utilities makes us a “jack of all trades, a master of none”), but our initial burst is pretty brutal atm (and we add 20 stacks of vuln right of the bat).

ilr.9675:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Frost spirit just went from 7% party damage increase, to 0.7%, thus making the trait absolutelly useless…

Not seeing this listed in the patch notes…

You DO know that Anet has a very long history of misplacing Decimals accidentally…

…right? *(except Smiter’s Boon, that was the only time is was completely intentional)

/signed plz fix FS

It wasn’t in the patch notes b/c it was a stealth nerf that happened two full weeks before the patch. Also, if you had a clue about the mechanics of how FS worked before, you would understand it’s impossible for this to have anything to do with decimal places. The damage increase/decrease are taken from averages not a placed numerical value.

Also, anyone who thinks Ranger no longer has a place in dungeon groups (especially after the nerf to FGS), obviously gave up too soon or is completely unaware of the Ranger’s burst damage.

*bonus points right now if you’re an Asura Ranger

Raina.8642:

I would like to point out that frost spirit was not, and is not the only thing a ranger brings to a party. Post update, a ranger has huge ability to DPS. Especially in short fights (yes, we arent going to get kills on the same timeframe as FGS, but ignoring that). If a fight lasts less then 10 seconds, I think we have some of the highest potential DPS (due to longbow buffs, & sotw)

Ranger’s DPs has nothing to do with longbow.

bring back frost spirit, and i’d have to believe rangers become pretty desirable in PvE.
spotter + old FS + new PO + new SoW+new GS/LB buffs……..that’s decent party dps and fantastic personal dps.

Agreed, frost spirit is a worthless team buff now.

Raina.8642:

I would like to point out that frost spirit was not, and is not the only thing a ranger brings to a party. Post update, a ranger has huge ability to DPS. Especially in short fights (yes, we arent going to get kills on the same timeframe as FGS, but ignoring that). If a fight lasts less then 10 seconds, I think we have some of the highest potential DPS (due to longbow buffs, & sotw)

The ONLY thing that changed post update is the RF channel duration. Suddenly every player dusts off his ranger and because he can RF a mob down in 2.5 secs, thinks his dps is through the roof. Lb is only good in PvE as a secondary weapon, because of RF and Barrage. If you do not switch immediatelly after this, you are a waste of a spot.

So STOP bringing the so called “LB huge buff” as an excuse.

Durzlla.6295:

I’d like to mention that frost spirit wasn’t nerfed it was just fixed so the ICD actually was there. In other words, they fixed a bug that made our most useless spirit good, so now it’s absolute kitten.

I didn’t use Frost Spirit for the longest time due to it looking like a kitten skill from the beginning (10% damage every 10s didn’t appeal to me lol), but now that it’s fixed and Anet can realize how stupid the kittening thing is maybe they’ll buff it in 6 months…. Or rework spirits completely, I mean either one will make me happy.

I don’t know… Making a skill one of the most useless skills in game, is not a “fix” in my book… FS without a trait offers something like 0.2 % dps in the party… With a trait, this massive amount goes to the total of 0.7 %…

They also got a 10% reliable modifier and the buff to SotW, so yeah their personal dps, and especially their burst, is far better than before. Too bad other classes do it better and bring more.

Lazze.9870:

Durzlla.6295:

I’d like to mention that frost spirit wasn’t nerfed it was just fixed so the ICD actually was there.

We all know that. What Anet seems to have missed is that even one of their own devs has stated that the skill is supposed to be a 7 % damage buff for the party. So their “fix” hardly looks like a fix at all. More like a screw up.

They actually say that it was supposed to be a 7% damage buff? Because if it is they sure as hell did the wrong kittening thing…

Well, don’t worry in the feature patch in 2017 they’ll start to talk about fixing this fix.

Durzlla.6295:

They actually say that it was supposed to be a 7% damage buff? Because if it is they sure as hell did the wrong kittening thing…

They did:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8uGM1CGV8g&feature=youtu.be&t=13m30s

Be sure to post in the bugs thread if this bug is affecting you. The more people that this affects, the likely better the priority the bug has.

Just saw on reddit* a dev responded about this.

Chris Whiteside: Hi Blude, We are not ignoring it all. We are aware and will update Monday. Thanks for raising it to my attention. Chris

*The conversation took place on these forums, was posted about on reddit, and now I’m learning about it through reddit and posting on these forums.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Raina.8642:

I would like to point out that frost spirit was not, and is not the only thing a ranger brings to a party. Post update, a ranger has huge ability to DPS. Especially in short fights (yes, we arent going to get kills on the same timeframe as FGS, but ignoring that). If a fight lasts less then 10 seconds, I think we have some of the highest potential DPS (due to longbow buffs, & sotw)

The ONLY thing that changed post update is the RF channel duration. Suddenly every player dusts off his ranger and because he can RF a mob down in 2.5 secs, thinks his dps is through the roof. Lb is only good in PvE as a secondary weapon, because of RF and Barrage. If you do not switch immediatelly after this, you are a waste of a spot.

So STOP bringing the so called “LB huge buff” as an excuse.

Durzlla.6295:

I’d like to mention that frost spirit wasn’t nerfed it was just fixed so the ICD actually was there. In other words, they fixed a bug that made our most useless spirit good, so now it’s absolute kitten.

I didn’t use Frost Spirit for the longest time due to it looking like a kitten skill from the beginning (10% damage every 10s didn’t appeal to me lol), but now that it’s fixed and Anet can realize how stupid the kittening thing is maybe they’ll buff it in 6 months…. Or rework spirits completely, I mean either one will make me happy.

I don’t know… Making a skill one of the most useless skills in game, is not a “fix” in my book… FS without a trait offers something like 0.2 % dps in the party… With a trait, this massive amount goes to the total of 0.7 %…

Barrage’s cast time was also decreased by 0.6s. New 10/5%% damage trait against crippled targets (barrage cripples, sword chain cripples). Signets affect ranger without traiting. Lots of personal dps boosts. Does it make up for losing the 7% party dps boost frost spirit gave? Probably not, but it does open up a utility slot for something like Sic ‘Em and a trait slot for something like Strength of Spirit for even more personal dps. If a party doesn’t have much fury uptime, a ranger with warhorn and red moa is close to 100% uptime on its own, so there’s still that and Spotter for party dps boosting.

Or you can get an ele and have perma fury+ might stacks.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Ranger-Frost-Spirit-bugged-w-maths/page/2#post4414811

Rejoice!

Sins.4782:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Ranger-Frost-Spirit-bugged-w-maths/page/2#post4414811

Rejoice!

The era of Rangers is upon us! Soon…still not changed just yet. At least they acknowledge it.

Yay, the class is going to be top notch when frost spirit gets “fixed” or gets officially “broken” again.

Anyways thanks for the replies, seems like the nerf was not a trade-off for personal dps boost.