Guild Wars 2

A Ranger shouldn’t have to choose BM to be effective with the greatsword or axe. That is essentially locking out 2 weapon choices for those who don’t want to focus on pets. Move them anywhere else. Seriously, anywhere. I don’t care where, just not in BM. BM should focus only on pet traits. If I want a super pet then I will trait into it. I would prefer to focus on my character rather then the generic boring pet.

Well… Not to the NM line either…

GS should be in Marksmanship line probably,

Axes do feel a bit more Beastmaster-ish, but yeah, I’m not sure where they would go really.

I guess:

Marks = Longbow/GS
Skirm = SB/Sword/Horn
WS = Axes, Torch, OH Dagger

Nature Magic & Beastmastery don’t really need any weapon traits.

We have pet traits in other trait lines. We really should have them in Beastmastery instead, in my opinion.

I disagree. GS works really well with pets and the BM line.

- stun, cripple, knockdown a vuln stacking work with pet and boost its damage greatly. You are in mêlée range with the pet which is pretty fun

- fury on GS autos synergies with the Remorseless GM and allows us to go tanky and stack healing power.

Overall I like MH axe and GS being THE beastmaster weapons thematically and functionally. I also like they made SB and sword skirmishing weapons. It just makes sense thematically.

^Same here.

Otherwise go with this:

Marks: LB + SB
Skirmish: Sword + GS
WS: Everything else

Sarision.6347:

^Same here.

Otherwise go with this:

Marks: LB + SB
Skirmish: Sword + GS
WS: Everything else

Shortbow makes no sense with the Opening Strike theme of Marksmanship

GS in another line still works with BM if you want to run that way. This way we can use a GS if we want without focusing on pets. Much better.

But best GS buffs should be for the BM specialists because BM benefits most from the fury procs and reduced CD’s, assuming that BM will be a tankier spec with less access to precision.

Stats are no longer in traits, so BM isn’t the tanky trait line. Bark skin, Companion Defense, and Oakheart Salve are all in Wilderness survival, so your tanky trait line is there.

GS is great where it is in BM now, so happy they put it there. You don’t need to take ANY pet traits with 2hT, you just get the minor ones and they are a great buff for the pet too.

If you want to play GS, take the trait. You still get to max out two other trait lines as well, which is more than you got before. You can still take the whole WS line and Marksmanship.

It’s in a GREAT spot.

You keep saying how it can be in another line despite the fact it works with BM, but you refuse to just suck it up and take the trait line that has them in it like you keep wanting us to do if it were in another line.

Axe synergies amazingly with BM since it has a nearly perma chill + weakness, making it easy for the pet to stick to the enemy, not to mention that it is THE weapon for might stacking your pet to godlyhood and you can pull your opponent kicking and screaming into the maw of your beast.

The GS also synergies with pets more than other weapons due to have 2 CCs, having access to a cripple, vuln, and a damage boost from hilt bash as well as cripple. Additionally the weapon allows you to be on the tanker side which favors BM builds more than a glass ranger does.

Personally, I think WH would fit the NM line better than BM would, but it isn’t a bad choice for BM due to it being buff oriented which helps out in any group scenario, and seeing as how your pet is a group member it’d benefit them too.

So you can either suck it up princess and take the traits in a line you’re not a huge fan of (for god knows what reason) or you can just not take the traits at all since they’re not really needed to begin with and no build you run will be ruined by not taking a weapon mastery trait.

That’s the problem. With the way it is now you are forced to take the pet buffs over things that would be better. That shouldn’t be the case. For example, lets say I wanted to run a GS build focusing on signets and survival skills with high survivability (which is more or less what I run now). I would have to take Marksman for the signet recharge, Wilderness Survival for the survival skill recharge and most of the tanky traits, and nature magic for the additional survivability and a touch of power from Nature’s Wrath. That leaves out the much needed GS trait. Swoop and Counterattack are important for any survivability build and the lack of the recharge hurts.

Is it just me or are people forgetting the fact that all of the changes are not final?

Sarision.6347:

Is it just me or are people forgetting the fact that all of the changes are not final?

That’s why we’re discussing it. Can’t have something change for the better if they don’t know about it.

Durzlla.6295:

You keep saying how it can be in another line despite the fact it works with BM, but you refuse to just suck it up and take the trait line that has them in it like you keep wanting us to do if it were in another line.

Axe synergies amazingly with BM since it has a nearly perma chill + weakness, making it easy for the pet to stick to the enemy, not to mention that it is THE weapon for might stacking your pet to godlyhood and you can pull your opponent kicking and screaming into the maw of your beast.

The GS also synergies with pets more than other weapons due to have 2 CCs, having access to a cripple, vuln, and a damage boost from hilt bash as well as cripple. Additionally the weapon allows you to be on the tanker side which favors BM builds more than a glass ranger does.

Personally, I think WH would fit the NM line better than BM would, but it isn’t a bad choice for BM due to it being buff oriented which helps out in any group scenario, and seeing as how your pet is a group member it’d benefit them too.

So you can either suck it up princess and take the traits in a line you’re not a huge fan of (for god knows what reason) or you can just not take the traits at all since they’re not really needed to begin with and no build you run will be ruined by not taking a weapon mastery trait.

Your passive aggressiveness is childish and makes your entire post mean nothing. Converse like an adult or don’t post in my thread.

Tarrek.7436:

That’s the problem. With the way it is now you are forced to take the pet buffs over things that would be better. That shouldn’t be the case. For example, lets say I wanted to run a GS build focusing on signets and survival skills with high survivability (which is more or less what I run now). I would have to take Marksman for the signet recharge, Wilderness Survival for the survival skill recharge and most of the tanky traits, and nature magic for the additional survivability and a touch of power from Nature’s Wrath. That leaves out the much needed GS trait. Swoop and Counterattack are important for any survivability build and the lack of the recharge hurts.

You do realize NM is blatantly the support specialization and has more master pet traits than BM does right? With the build you’re describing I’d take WS, Marks and BM, it’d make significantly more sense than putting points into NM.

Tarrek.7436:

Sarision.6347:

Is it just me or are people forgetting the fact that all of the changes are not final?

That’s why we’re discussing it. Can’t have something change for the better if they don’t know about it.

Durzlla.6295:

You keep saying how it can be in another line despite the fact it works with BM, but you refuse to just suck it up and take the trait line that has them in it like you keep wanting us to do if it were in another line.

Axe synergies amazingly with BM since it has a nearly perma chill + weakness, making it easy for the pet to stick to the enemy, not to mention that it is THE weapon for might stacking your pet to godlyhood and you can pull your opponent kicking and screaming into the maw of your beast.

The GS also synergies with pets more than other weapons due to have 2 CCs, having access to a cripple, vuln, and a damage boost from hilt bash as well as cripple. Additionally the weapon allows you to be on the tanker side which favors BM builds more than a glass ranger does.

Personally, I think WH would fit the NM line better than BM would, but it isn’t a bad choice for BM due to it being buff oriented which helps out in any group scenario, and seeing as how your pet is a group member it’d benefit them too.

So you can either suck it up princess and take the traits in a line you’re not a huge fan of (for god knows what reason) or you can just not take the traits at all since they’re not really needed to begin with and no build you run will be ruined by not taking a weapon mastery trait.

Your passive aggressiveness is childish and makes your entire post mean nothing. Converse like an adult or don’t post in my thread.

It was hardly passive aggressive, if you didn’t notice I blatantly called you out on how poor your logic is. And unlike you who just says “no it should be my way!!” I explained why it isn’t and pointed out how you’re being a hypocrite.

NM has regen, power from healing, cc removal, and protection all of which are much needed by a survival build.

Sarision.6347:

Is it just me or are people forgetting the fact that all of the changes are not final?

Indeed. They aren’t final but anytime they’ve been shown ahead of time either through official channels or leaked, they remained largely unchanged. Even the ones Anet Devs came out to claim as faked, IIRC….

Tarrek.7436:

NM has regen, power from healing, cc removal, and protection all of which are much needed by a survival build.

If you’re planning on being a survival build than why does it matter if you take the GS trait or the marks specialization.

Durzlla.6295:

Tarrek.7436:

NM has regen, power from healing, cc removal, and protection all of which are much needed by a survival build.

If you’re planning on being a survival build than why does it matter if you take the GS trait or the marks specialization.

GS is for cooldown reduction mostly for swoop (to escape if needed or close the distance) and counterattack plus Maul is nice. Marksman is for signet cooldown because signet of stone saves lives.

Tarrek.7436:

Durzlla.6295:

Tarrek.7436:

NM has regen, power from healing, cc removal, and protection all of which are much needed by a survival build.

If you’re planning on being a survival build than why does it matter if you take the GS trait or the marks specialization.

GS is for cooldown reduction mostly for swoop (to escape if needed or close the distance) and counterattack plus Maul is nice. Marksman is for signet cooldown because signet of stone saves lives.

I’d argue Protect Me saves more lives, and it’s a stunbreaker and you can get reduced CDs for it +your GS trait in the same line and could double it up and take heal as one as well. It’d put Protect me at a 48s CD that gives regen + swiftness to you and your pet with the trait, same with your heal which would also be 16s and you could take oak heart salve in WS to make your perma regen give you a perma 5% dmg reduction.

Durzlla.6295:

Tarrek.7436:

Durzlla.6295:

Tarrek.7436:

NM has regen, power from healing, cc removal, and protection all of which are much needed by a survival build.

If you’re planning on being a survival build than why does it matter if you take the GS trait or the marks specialization.

GS is for cooldown reduction mostly for swoop (to escape if needed or close the distance) and counterattack plus Maul is nice. Marksman is for signet cooldown because signet of stone saves lives.

I’d argue Protect Me saves more lives, and it’s a stunbreaker and you can get reduced CDs for it +your GS trait in the same line and could double it up and take heal as one as well. It’d put Protect me at a 48s CD that gives regen + swiftness to you and your pet with the trait, same with your heal which would also be 16s and you could take oak heart salve in WS to make your perma regen give you a perma 5% dmg reduction.

Protect me doesn’t give you the passive toughness buff and having access to the CD on signets gives you both the invulnerability and the access to quick burst from Signet of the Wild which also gives Stability and a movement speed buff as well as the passive regen. For heals, I can (and do) run Healing spring and blast it with call of the wild then leap through it 1 or 2 times (based on cooldowns) with Monarch’s Leap and Swoop.

GS and axe just work beautifully in BM for the reasons a bunch of us mentioned. In fact I would go as far as to say they don’t work better anywhere else. It seems like a well thought out change.

WH and OH axe should go with nature magic for their support function. Hunter’s Call and Whirling Defense need to be reworked completely though

Whirling Defense needs a much bigger reflect radius and a big DPS buff

mistsim.2748:

GS and axe just work beautifully in BM for the reasons a bunch of us mentioned. In fact I would go as far as to say they don’t work better anywhere else. It seems like a well thought out change.

WH and OH axe should go with nature magic for their support function. Hunter’s Call and Whirling Defense need to be reworked completely though

I’ll agree that Whirling Defense and Hunter’s Call both need some work, WD more so. Hunter’s Call can help finish people off when they run away to heal, but it’s pve use is 0. Whirling Defense is fun, but not much use. Maybe if there was some movement associated with it like if you leap around in random directions while using it.

Tarrek.7436:

Whirling Defense is fun, but not much use. Maybe if there was some movement associated with it like if you leap around in random directions while using it.

Ugh, that’d be terrible for PVE… It definitely needs a DPS buff and radius buff. Don’t see you being able to move though with the animation as it is. They’d have to change it to look more like warrior axe #5, which I’m totally ok with if I get the DPS buff and not the radius buff, because then I could move around to compensate.

Tarrek.7436:

Durzlla.6295:

Tarrek.7436:

Durzlla.6295:

Tarrek.7436:

NM has regen, power from healing, cc removal, and protection all of which are much needed by a survival build.

If you’re planning on being a survival build than why does it matter if you take the GS trait or the marks specialization.

GS is for cooldown reduction mostly for swoop (to escape if needed or close the distance) and counterattack plus Maul is nice. Marksman is for signet cooldown because signet of stone saves lives.

I’d argue Protect Me saves more lives, and it’s a stunbreaker and you can get reduced CDs for it +your GS trait in the same line and could double it up and take heal as one as well. It’d put Protect me at a 48s CD that gives regen + swiftness to you and your pet with the trait, same with your heal which would also be 16s and you could take oak heart salve in WS to make your perma regen give you a perma 5% dmg reduction.

Protect me doesn’t give you the passive toughness buff and having access to the CD on signets gives you both the invulnerability and the access to quick burst from Signet of the Wild which also gives Stability and a movement speed buff as well as the passive regen. For heals, I can (and do) run Healing spring and blast it with call of the wild then leap through it 1 or 2 times (based on cooldowns) with Monarch’s Leap and Swoop.

Ah sorry, I didn’t realize you were taking multiple signets, you made it sound like you were just taking Sig of Stone. I doubt the GS trait will make or break the build, so if you’re trying to go survival you could drop it.

However, survival builds tend to benefit more from BM, so it’d probably be more beneficial for you to just go like Marksman, Nature Magic and Beast Mastery and drop Wilderness Survival. This way you could get the WH trait (which i keep confusing witht he shout trait in BM), Natures Wrath, and like Protective Ward, get your sig traits in Marks for Damage, and then have a scary kitten pet from BMs minors alone.

If you were going more survival focus the traits i’d take from BM would be Rending Attacks (nothing else really works), GS training, and then Quickening Zephyr or AoE taunt depending on the pet you take, the Quickening Zephyr trait will give you might and quickness on swap, and since you run a GS that means you’ll have higher rate of evade frames for the duration.

Then you can just slap on your defensive gear set and go total bruiser on the enemy and probably kill them fairly fast just through the combine damage you’d get from opening strikes, signet passives, and your beefy kitten pet.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Tarrek.7436:

Whirling Defense is fun, but not much use. Maybe if there was some movement associated with it like if you leap around in random directions while using it.

Ugh, that’d be terrible for PVE… It definitely needs a DPS buff and radius buff. Don’t see you being able to move though with the animation as it is. They’d have to change it to look more like warrior axe #5, which I’m totally ok with if I get the DPS buff and not the radius buff, because then I could move around to compensate.

I hope the traited range on it is just made baseline, that thing is a god kitten vortex of reflect, it’s a MASSIVE range on the skill and would make it truly amazing.

If you’re talking about the baseline range though? yes, it absolutely needs a buff, I flat out refuse to run WD without off hand training for the rnage alone.

I am talking about baseline range.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

I am talking about baseline range.

Yeah, the baseline range is abyssmal, seeing as how the GM axe trait doesn’t do anything with range though i’m HOPING it’s baseline.

Durzlla.6295:

I’d argue Protect Me saves more lives, and it’s a stunbreaker and you can get reduced CDs for it +your GS trait in the same line and could double it up and take heal as one as well. It’d put Protect me at a 48s CD that gives regen + swiftness to you and your pet with the trait, same with your heal which would also be 16s and you could take oak heart salve in WS to make your perma regen give you a perma 5% dmg reduction.

Protect me disables your pet from doing anything else and kills your pet. But most importantly, it disables capture point contributions for more than a second or two when signet of stone doesn’t, which is a huge weakness when trying to hold a point.

infantrydiv.1620:

Sarision.6347:

^Same here.

Otherwise go with this:

Marks: LB + SB
Skirmish: Sword + GS
WS: Everything else

Shortbow makes no sense with the Opening Strike theme of Marksmanship

It makes so much not-sense I am ABSOLUTELY planning to try Marksmanship + Skirmishing to give my shortbow-weilding Ranger opening strikes along with the shortbow grand master trait . I am delighted to see those effects in different trees where I can combine them.

My only issue with these weapon traits in beastmaster is that I have to pick between them and pet traits for my beastmaster build. Aside from that I agree that the greatsword and axes definitely work best with a beastmaster build, so it fits thematically.

Gs is a power weapon. It should go in the line that supports its main element. While traits don’t provide stats, using a certain weapon should not lock you in automaticly into a tank role.

I shoud be able to use main hand axe condi or power tanky or glassy with or without being a Bm.

Having these two weapons in this line seems I have to choose between using the weapons I want and being sub par or forced or to be a BM.

Lots of ranger are unable to use the 1h sword properly. So they run gs. Running mark, skirmish and bm doesn’t sound like a great dungeon build.

The new system is suppose to open up possibilities not limit them. Do we really think Beastmaster build will be a thing across all game modes.

Even with stats gone the lines support the stats they once held and this is why I think most of us feels as they don’t fit.

Tarrek.7436:

A Ranger shouldn’t have to choose BM to be effective with the greatsword or axe. That is essentially locking out 2 weapon choices for those who don’t want to focus on pets. Move them anywhere else. Seriously, anywhere. I don’t care where, just not in BM. BM should focus only on pet traits. If I want a super pet then I will trait into it. I would prefer to focus on my character rather then the generic boring pet.

Beastmastery isn’t just focused on pets. It’s you AND your pet. There are other pet traits in other lines too.

But honestly, what do you need the trait for? The reduced cooldown on the skills? Just use that new 66% cooldown reduction on next skill after swap trait. Then you can spam Maul with a bit of finesse.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

Gs is a power weapon. It should go in the line that supports its main element. While traits don’t provide stats, using a certain weapon should not lock you in automaticly into a tank role.

Well, Greatsword is about 65% a defensive weapon…Why not use sword for your power weapon?

Serraphin Storm.2369:

Gs is a power weapon. It should go in the line that supports its main element. While traits don’t provide stats, using a certain weapon should not lock you in automaticly into a tank role.

Lots of ranger are unable to use the 1h sword properly. So they run gs. Running mark, skirmish and bm doesn’t sound like a great dungeon build.

The new system is suppose to open up possibilities not limit them. Do we really think Beastmaster build will be a thing across all game modes.

Even with stats gone the lines support the stats they once held and this is why I think most of us feels as they don’t fit.

Well seeing as how if you’re going for dungeon running you’ll want the most optimal damage and that boosting your pets damages boosts your damage as well, yes Marks/Skirm, BM would be a viable option especially since your pet not only gains 300 bonus stats (compared to base pets now), they’ll also gain 30% crit damage, 20% shorter CDs on their F2 and base attacks, and 20% lower swap CD just for picking the specialization line.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

I shoud be able to use main hand axe condi or power tanky or glassy with or without being a Bm.

oh I didn’t realize GS was being limited to BM only. but seriously you can still use GS. to specialize in the GS, it makes sense to do it through beastmastery.

And you don’t even need to take any pet traits out of BM…. The minor ones are still a huge boost to your DPS.

I personally never use gs anymore, but I know a lot of rangers out there cant use 1h. I do use axes in my wvw build were I don’t see the point of needing to spec into bm to make my axe more viable. Ws was the perfect place of it. Yes great sword in more defensive Ws is the defence line.

Axe could either go condi or power but usually in a more defensive build ws was perfect.

We will get a baseline boost to pets so specing into bm line will give a 150 boost (the other 150 will be baseline). I think sharing boon with my pet would make up for the 150 stat boost.

Honed axe as a gm just doesn’t appeal to me at all., but I can see who some would just love this. What happened to the increase range from off-hand training.

These two weapons just feel forced in the bm line. It just feels limiting.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

I personally never use gs anymore, but I know a lot of rangers out there cant use 1h.

I still use it from time to time when I know I’m going into a fight that I have to dodge more often than the sword animation will allow… but even in those situations I won’t be going into the BM line to get that 2h training trait.

An argument in this thread is that these weapons are “defining” of a beastmaster ranger, due to their pet support. Problem is, every weapon in the Ranger’s kitten nal supports the pet directly in some way except torch.

Warhorn is an obvious support weapon, perfect fit for Nature magic, our support line.
Longbow is a burst damage weapon that stacks Vuln and cripples with barrage, but not too useful for BM otherwise.
Shortbow has a decent cripple, a stun and lets the pet apply bleeding.
Dagger has a huge cripple and can be combined with our mainhand weapons.
Axe chills, lets the pet inflict weakness, stacks might with Nature Magic and pulls and with awkward vuln stacking on offhand. Built properly, it can make the pet a deadly force.
Greatsword with opening strikes around is arguably one of our better BM weapons, Maul synergising well with Attacks of Opportunity from Signet of the Hunt and providing one through Hilt Bash. It can even land kitten cripple at the cost of our counterattack to help the pet hit. But its best partner is the high burst birds, not the Jaguar.
Sword is easily the best weapon for pet DPS. With perma cripple, on pet might stacking and Predator’s Onslaught. All this synergises with the cats that beastmaster builds want. For your personal stats it has better synergy with axe in your off-hand too, letting you run a BM condi build.

So, yeah, Greatsword has clearly been given a very defined BM and Marksmanship build, with skirmishing for quickdraw and spotter for even more offensive power, take beastly warden and laugh as your opponent takes a double opening strikes boosted Maul (Signet of the Wild and Signet of the Hunt on the second for extra absurd hits) hopefully in synch with your Raven.

… If Staff is a power weapon I’ll be incredibly upset this won’t work with it. I’d have to ditch spotter and quickdraw or opening strikes entirely or the greatsword trait and absurdity of the BM line for it. So I can see why people consider the greatsword trait in BM limiting.

Beastmasters Bond/MoC/Remorseless/2hT/ZS is where it’s at imo. Awesome synergy.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

I personally never use gs anymore, but I know a lot of rangers out there cant use 1h.

*won’t. Because one-handers are horrible in viable power builds. You’ll only see MH axe or sword in Condi bunker builds.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Beastmasters Bond/MoC/Remorseless/2hT/ZS is where it’s at imo. Awesome synergy.

Yeah I’m super excited about this. Can go very tanky too, don’t need much crit.

Aye, Sigils of Intelligence on my GS and OH Axe, full cavalier gear. Good times, good times.

I disagree because of Quickening Zephyr.

Quickening Zephyr was an overpowered trait in the beastmaster line; however, since there is no other useful traits in the beastmaster line, it remained unused ever since they moved it from a adept minor to grandmaster trait.

Because there are useful beastmaster traits, Quickening zephyr may be played again.

runeblade.7514:

I disagree because of Quickening Zephyr.

Quickening Zephyr was an overpowered trait in the beastmaster line; however, since there is no other useful traits in the beastmaster line, it remained unused ever since they moved it from a adept minor to grandmaster trait.

Because there are useful beastmaster traits, Quickening zephyr may be played again.

It doesn’t help that instinctual bond is not exactly a good trait either, might be better to move load whistle down to adept minor, pet’s prowess master minor, and place merged Instinctual bond and zephyr’s speed to grandmaster minor.

Bran.7425:

runeblade.7514:

I disagree because of Quickening Zephyr.

Quickening Zephyr was an overpowered trait in the beastmaster line; however, since there is no other useful traits in the beastmaster line, it remained unused ever since they moved it from a adept minor to grandmaster trait.

Because there are useful beastmaster traits, Quickening zephyr may be played again.

It doesn’t help that instinctual bond is not exactly a good trait either, might be better to move load whistle down to adept minor, pet’s prowess master minor, and place merged Instinctual bond and zephyr’s speed to grandmaster minor.

Most adept traits in any professions are useless or weak.

IB isn’t special. What is special are the three selectable major traits.

Instinctual Bond should be merged with Circle of Life and then swapped with Fortifying Bond imo.