Guild Wars 2

Just wanted to weigh in on the latest changes to Ranger and start by saying that I have never seen a Ranger/Hunter profession/class nerfed out of using a bow in any game ever.

Yet, here we are, and it seems that we (in Gw2) are the 1st to accomplish the amazing feat of fielding the ranger who’s best option is to toss away their beloved and classic weapons… their bows. Is their an industry award for this?

The latest math analysis of the ranger profession describes the rangers ideal DPS build as follows:
Weapon 1: Greatsword
Weapon 2: Sword/Axe

Of course we have created a scenario where the ranger has now essentially become a melee class. Oh, the wonders never cease! … as this would be another industry 1st! Maybe another award is in order?
Oh wait… Rangers are melee, without heavy armor. *confused)

Do you know who should receive an award?
The company who ceased to use misleading terms like “balancing” (which implies equilibrium) and instead used more accurate terms such as “realignment” or even “unbalancing”.
Honesty should be rewarded, and that approach would truly be an honorable step.

At minimum, that would provide us with an accurate representation of what was potentially coming our way… rather than the candy-coated, best face forward previews that we were given prior to the patch… which made no mention of our planned demise on the dev cutting block. That… breeds resentment.

Sadly, the ranger is seemingly being flogged (an analogy) for crimes unknown. If a nerf of this proportion has ever been unleashed on any profession in GW2, I am unaware of it.
Forget “fairness”..and think in terms of reasonable.. in relation to decision making and the ultimate results of those decisions.

This is truly the windows 8 of nerfs in the modern gaming era, and I sincerely hope that Anet understands the urgent need to remedy this as quickly as possible.
That pretty much sums it up.

Thanks for listening.

I don’t get it.

Is this another thinly veiled “RANGEr” thread?

Quarktastic.1027:

I don’t get it.

Is this another thinly veiled “RANGEr” thread?

It is.
Also mentioning how traits that were unintentionally more powerful because of pet swap being merged with pet stow being nerfed into mechanics back to intended values.

So yea, this is just another of those threads.

S/A? Really? At least do S/T or S/D + GS if you are going to full melee.

And yes, I am well aware this is a troll topic.

Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows

Maybe if all your foes are ambient creatures!

Sandpit.3467:

Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows

Maybe if all your foes are ambient creatures!

Actually I do bring enemies down quite often. I can’t stomp or finish them though.

For PvE LB/SA is still slightly higher dps than GS/SA so what’s the problem?

Lyger.5429:

For PvE LB/SA is still slightly higher dps than GS/SA so what’s the problem?

Only if the fight goes for 13 seconds (traited for Predator’s Onslaught). Anywhere near longer fight, GS/SA with Remorseless beats it. And also on 2+ targets (trash).

I’d just like to know where people get the idea that they should be able to outdamage melee weapons with ranged weapons. In any game aiming for balance and a fun environment to play, risk will always provide reward. Shorter range is higher risk and lower DPS uptime, so of course it has higher active DPS.

I don’t even know why people enjoy using long-range weapons in the first place. I didn’t pick Ranger to stand around plinking arrows all day.

HotHit.6783:

I’d just like to know where people get the idea that they should be able to outdamage melee weapons with ranged weapons. In any game aiming for balance and a fun environment to play, risk will always provide reward. Shorter range is higher risk and lower DPS uptime, so of course it has higher active DPS.

I don’t even know why people enjoy using long-range weapons in the first place. I didn’t pick Ranger to stand around plinking arrows all day.

This is probably because our highest source of DPS was SA and our highest opening spike was LB. So you were using LB as an opener in the former Meta.
For those who didn’t play it because of meta – they played it because of role-play dreams or comfort.
And these people who played it for comfort usually got bored so they spammed 2>3>4>1. They got hated at this point. Those who realized they have to manage their pets swapped to something that doesn’t die soon – they pick a bear. And have stayed being the most useless (even harmful) out of the least useless stat choice (zerk).
And that’s how Bearbow is born.

I also like the Archer type of design – so I took him into small roaming groups for WvW where I was doing fine, actually being useful. And it’s been doing pretty fine with the Quick Draw in PvP.

2 classes currently use LB….One of them uses it as a off hand buff weapon.

The other, Ranger, uses(used) it as a central part of the class theme., play style, and archetype.

These nerfs are making the game generic with the “everyone melee all the time” changes. Stop punishing players for playing how they want, Anet!

HotHit.6783:

I’d just like to know where people get the idea that they should be able to outdamage melee weapons with ranged weapons. In any game aiming for balance and a fun environment to play, risk will always provide reward. Shorter range is higher risk and lower DPS uptime, so of course it has higher active DPS.

I don’t even know why people enjoy using long-range weapons in the first place. I didn’t pick Ranger to stand around plinking arrows all day.

Probably because gap closers, stability, invulns, reflects, etc. exist. It’s far more dangerous to play at range then it is melee. Which is why most LB users die fast once you make it through the initial RF.

It’s ok, we aren’t archers, we are Rangers.

serow.6524:

It’s ok, we aren’t archers, we are Rangers.

But bows are a defining weapon of our class.
It’d be like nerfing staffs to be useless on elementalists.

what was nerfed on it? my bow hits like a truck…

Alice.5360:

serow.6524:

It’s ok, we aren’t archers, we are Rangers.

But bows are a defining weapon of our class.
It’d be like nerfing staffs to be useless on elementalists.

Apparently, rangers has nothing to do with attacking from range.

Also staff is not the defining weapon of the elementalist, unfortunately. That would be D/ since most of the builds revolve around D/ and D/ is the only weapon set that requires more than simply camping in one attunement in PvE.

tl;dr
bows are not the defining weapons of the ranger class in gw2, it might be if it was based on the LOTR archtype.

Staff isn’t either for ele, it is dagger/

PlatinumMember.5274:

Alice.5360:

serow.6524:

It’s ok, we aren’t archers, we are Rangers.

But bows are a defining weapon of our class.
It’d be like nerfing staffs to be useless on elementalists.

Apparently, rangers has nothing to do with attacking from range.

Also staff is not the defining weapon of the elementalist, unfortunately. That would be D/ since most of the builds revolve around D/ and D/ is the only weapon set that requires more than simply camping in one attunement in PvE.

tl;dr
bows are not the defining weapons of the ranger class in gw2, it might be if it was based on the LOTR archtype.

Staff isn’t either for ele, it is dagger/

Aragorn never used a bow, and Legolas wasn’t a ranger.

Whats wrong with S/A as a melee set? It is actually quite good.

PlatinumMember.5274:

Alice.5360:

serow.6524:

It’s ok, we aren’t archers, we are Rangers.

But bows are a defining weapon of our class.
It’d be like nerfing staffs to be useless on elementalists.

Apparently, rangers has nothing to do with attacking from range.

Also staff is not the defining weapon of the elementalist, unfortunately. That would be D/ since most of the builds revolve around D/ and D/ is the only weapon set that requires more than simply camping in one attunement in PvE.

tl;dr
bows are not the defining weapons of the ranger class in gw2, it might be if it was based on the LOTR archtype.

Staff isn’t either for ele, it is dagger/

Builds might revolve around dagger for ele but most eles in casual areas are using a staff. Daggers are for dps so it’s “the meta” but that doesn’t mean they are the trope-weapon of the ele. Same way bow was never the highest dps weapon for a ranger but it was the defining weapon.

Similar to thieves and MG dagger. Is it always a great choice? No… but it should always be a very viable choice because it fits with the class archetype.

LBs really were rangers “defining” weapon because they used them like no one else cold… only warriors had access to them and they were an offset buffing weapon, not a damage one. Because of that, using a LB as a primary weapon was pretty much unique to rangers… and that is why I claim it as a “defining weapon.”

Does it need to be ranger’s best weapon? No. But it needs to be respectable enough to use adequately. We were sold a class that could do well at range and that has been taken from us.
Return bow to being middle of the pack in terms of damage and I’m fine. As it stands, it has low dps, no utility, and minimum survivability. It is a waste of a weapon.

I was running around all evening on my shortbow ranger… what got nerfed? Seems just as good as always.

Look, here’s the thing. Ranged weapons are designed to be weaker than melee weapons in this game. Why should that be true for every profession besides the Ranger?

Quarktastic.1027:

…Aragorn never used a bow…

Not trolling or trying to nit pick or get too far off topic, but… Yeah, he did actually, gotta go read that book again mate. Also, the Rangers in LoTR are primarily in Ithilien where they use bows extensively.

Ranger does not = bows primarily in GW2 though and I think that annoys a lot of people, myself included actually, a bit, but I do play melee ranger more than LB anyway. I just loved Ranger Spike in GW1, bars like…

Manekk.6981:

what was nerfed on it? my bow hits like a truck…

It’s not that LB was nerfed (even though the power coefficient was lowered on LB2 without any patch note about it…) it more has to do with Remorseless. If your not familiar with it it lowered the coll down of the next weapon skill you use after you swap weapons in combat. Previously the meta (read organized dungeon/fractal builds) was LB/SA opening with LB2 LB5 then swapping to sword and auto attacking while Axe 4ing off cooldowns (being mindful of defiance). Now with Remorseless the meta has become to replace LB with GS and swapping weapons on CD. This provides tons of remorseless pros as well as the fury (and thus another opening strike) on swap. Making the ideal rotation being GS2 swap Axe 4 auto till CD Axe 4 auto till swap, GS2 GS3, maybe GS5, GS2 off CD, swap and repeat. While swapping pets between jungle stalker and jaguar on CD to provide quickness.

Honestly, I’m loving the GW2 ranger more than I have any right to; it does have a good feel to me atm.

To be fair, though, outside of spiking I never really used a bow on my GW1 Ranger. I usually ran around with sword/shield for stance spam, daggers for lulz, staff for beastmastery or trapping… granted, GW1 is a completely different game, I think they did a good job translating the old class to the new one.

The problem is that they made an entire style of play worthless. Devs claim to want diversity but what other class played like LB ranger? It was the closest thing to a sniper we have.

I don’t care that ranger does not = ranged. Bow (both LB and SB) were cetral to the theme of ranger. Melee is done better and with more utility by eles, guardians, warriors, thieves….

Sorry to slightly derail the thread, but why is it, that an increasingly large group of Rangers from this forum, go on the offensive every time someone brings up the idea of a ranged Ranger? One example is the classic “not another RANGEr thread” remark that is becoming more frequent.

I’m asking this in the most objective, non-aggressive voice possible, so, if you happen to be one of the people I referred to , please don’t feel that you need to ‘defend your honour’. I’d love to hear an objective response back from you.

When it comes to the association between Rangers and bows, the official description for the profession, the fact that bow was the `preferred weapon` for the class in GW1, the existence of the `Marksmanship` line, and the design goal for what Ranger is supposed to be best at (long-ranged single-target DPS), all point towards Ranger being a ranged class “by design”.

That doesn’t mean that Rangers should not also be a melee class. After all, the core idea of GW2 is that any class should be able to fit any role. Also the same description suggests that the Rangers are supposed to be good at making the transition between ranged and melee combat seamlessly, which they are. But that doesn’t take away from the fact that bows have always been central to the Guild Wars concept of a Ranger.

The fact that our melee skills are in general better than our ranged skills isn’t because of the dictionary definition of the word Ranger, it’s just the way GW2 seems to be with regards to melee vs ranged combat in general. It all comes down to the fact that stacking in melee range in order to maximise support is most efficient.

IMO. the problem is not that Rangers are not a ranged class, and that people should stop expecting them to be one. The problem is that ranged combat sucks in GW2.

Kaz.5430:

Sorry to slightly derail the thread, but why is it, that an increasingly large group of Rangers from this forum, go on the offensive every time someone brings up the idea of a ranged Ranger?

It’s probably because the melee/ranged discrepancy has always been a part of the game, and the fact players have complained about Ranger not being very good at range has always been a part of the game. While I’m technically new to the class, I could see how that would get old after some time.

Added to the fact that the ranger forum seems to be the most negative of any forum I’ve spent any time on, and you’ve got a good mix for being tackled and beaten.

Because no class is defined by a weapon set. To suggest rangers must be the king of range or that bows must be our best weapon is to really not understand what rangers are. A lot of new/returning Rangers think rangers are define by the bow so we get countless threads about this in one form or another.

A lot of rangers are negative because they are lashing out. The community whether wrongly or rightly view rangers in a bad light.

With all classes killing isn’t the issue its staying alive. When a ranger gets a kill they get comments like pew pew more , or keep spamming 1 and 2. While this happen a small amount of the time, it not the norm.

It takes more effort to be good on a ranger imho than any other class.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

Because no class is defined by a weapon set. To suggest rangers must be the king of range or that bows must be our best weapon is to really not understand what rangers are. A lot of new/returning Rangers think rangers are define by the bow so we get countless threads about this in one form or another.

While I agree that all classes should be more than a single weapon. The problem with this argument, is that Rangers are defined officially as “Unparalleled archers”. That’s not something that a player has mistakenly added to the wiki, that’s the start of the second sentence of the official Ranger description. Therefore we ‘should’ be the king of the bow according to that description. This is further reinforced by every bit of Ranger concept art showing a character with a bow, and every ranger NPC using one.

It’s also totally fair to make the assumption – based on playing GW1 or reading the official profession description – that bows ‘should’ be our best weapons. It would hardly make sense to describe Rangers as unparalleled archers, who are better with swords than bows. That’s just illogical.

The fact that bows are not our best weapon is not a misunderstanding of what it means to be a Ranger, it’s down to a discrepancy between “description” and “implementation”. New players to the profession (or existing ones who feel that our ranged abilities should be better), will not stop making this association unless the description of the class is changed.

Although, I’d argue, that if it’s any kind of “misunderstanding” at at, it’s more of a misunderstanding that there is a place in GW2 for ranged combat.

Dlaxer.1428:

Manekk.6981:

what was nerfed on it? my bow hits like a truck…

It’s not that LB was nerfed (even though the power coefficient was lowered on LB2 without any patch note about it…) it more has to do with Remorseless. If your not familiar with it it lowered the coll down of the next weapon skill you use after you swap weapons in combat. Previously the meta (read organized dungeon/fractal builds) was LB/SA opening with LB2 LB5 then swapping to sword and auto attacking while Axe 4ing off cooldowns (being mindful of defiance). Now with Remorseless the meta has become to replace LB with GS and swapping weapons on CD. This provides tons of remorseless pros as well as the fury (and thus another opening strike) on swap. Making the ideal rotation being GS2 swap Axe 4 auto till CD Axe 4 auto till swap, GS2 GS3, maybe GS5, GS2 off CD, swap and repeat. While swapping pets between jungle stalker and jaguar on CD to provide quickness.

So what is the truth? I keep hearing some people say the remorseless GS/Sword/axe, but then I hear that predator’s onslaught with LB/Sword/axe is better. I suppose it doesn’t really matter as I’m not a min max type and I’ll play whichever I prefer so long as the damage is good. Still it would be nice to hear what the answer is.

xarallei.4279:

So what is the truth? I keep hearing some people say the remorseless GS/Sword/axe, but then I hear that predator’s onslaught with LB/Sword/axe is better. I suppose it doesn’t really matter as I’m not a min max type and I’ll play whichever I prefer so long as the damage is good. Still it would be nice to hear what the answer is.

DnT Ranger Specialization Update

You take a DPS loss with GS/SA & Remorseless but it’s useful for parties that lack vulnerability. Otherwise, LB/SA & Predator’s Onslaught like pre-patch.

Wondrouswall.7169:

xarallei.4279:

So what is the truth? I keep hearing some people say the remorseless GS/Sword/axe, but then I hear that predator’s onslaught with LB/Sword/axe is better. I suppose it doesn’t really matter as I’m not a min max type and I’ll play whichever I prefer so long as the damage is good. Still it would be nice to hear what the answer is.

DnT Ranger Specialization Update

You take a DPS loss with GS/SA & Remorseless but it’s useful for parties that lack vulnerability. Otherwise, LB/SA & Predator’s Onslaught like pre-patch.

I run remorseless regardless of the DPS loss because it’s more fun. Also, 20k mauls are hilarious.

I run GS/SA as well because it’s more fun haha! As much as LB/SA with PO does more damage, it gets tiring camping Sword…

Dredlore.1672:

The latest math analysis of the ranger profession describes the rangers ideal DPS build as follows:
Weapon 1: Greatsword
Weapon 2: Sword/Axe

Of course we have created a scenario where the ranger has now essentially become a melee class. Oh, the wonders never cease! … as this would be another industry 1st! Maybe another award is in order?
Oh wait… Rangers are melee, without heavy armor. *confused)

You do realize GS/SA build while isn’t a heavy armor class, it has one of the best evasion and damage mitigation combo, right?
You have evasions from GS 3, Sword 2 3
You have block from GS 4
You have your pet to soak damage, you can stand on top of him or slightly behind.
This build excel in dungeons since you get survival synergy boons from other classes like guardian for instance.

When you run solo, that weapon combo will become nothing but hard to use. Especially @ place like silverwaste. When you are by yourself getting hit from all directions by husk troll wolves and bunch of teragriff no amount of evasions and block from that weapon combo can save you.

LB/GS is still awesome @ openworld …. i don’t have a shred of problem @ silverwaste/dry top. Dps still excellent. I run it with quickdraw and lead the wind. So much burst. You can always deaggro with LB3, wait a bit for CD or switch to GS for double or triple Maul burst.

Bottom line is certain build and certain weapons combo are best fit on situational basis. It hasn’t changed ever since the patch.

Pino.5209:

Dredlore.1672:

The latest math analysis of the ranger profession describes the rangers ideal DPS build as follows:
Weapon 1: Greatsword
Weapon 2: Sword/Axe

Of course we have created a scenario where the ranger has now essentially become a melee class. Oh, the wonders never cease! … as this would be another industry 1st! Maybe another award is in order?
Oh wait… Rangers are melee, without heavy armor. *confused)

You do realize GS/SA build while isn’t a heavy armor class, it has one of the best evasion combo, right?
You have evasions from GS 3, Sword 2 3
You have block from GS 4
You have your pet to soak damage, you can stand on top of him or slightly behind.
This build excel in dungeons since you get survival synergy boons from other classes like guardian for instance.

When you run solo, that weapon combo will become nothing but hard to use. Especially @ place like silverwaste. When you are by yourself getting hit from all directions by husk troll wolves and bunch of teragriff no amount of evasions and block from that weapon combos.

LB/GS is still awesome @ openworld …. i don’t have a shred of problem @ silverwaste/dry top. Dps still excellent.

I love my GS/SA. The evades are just silly good. I even run a dagger offhand for some bosses (subject alpha etc.)

Quarktastic.1027:

Pino.5209:

Dredlore.1672:

The latest math analysis of the ranger profession describes the rangers ideal DPS build as follows:
Weapon 1: Greatsword
Weapon 2: Sword/Axe

Of course we have created a scenario where the ranger has now essentially become a melee class. Oh, the wonders never cease! … as this would be another industry 1st! Maybe another award is in order?
Oh wait… Rangers are melee, without heavy armor. *confused)

You do realize GS/SA build while isn’t a heavy armor class, it has one of the best evasion combo, right?
You have evasions from GS 3, Sword 2 3
You have block from GS 4
You have your pet to soak damage, you can stand on top of him or slightly behind.
This build excel in dungeons since you get survival synergy boons from other classes like guardian for instance.

When you run solo, that weapon combo will become nothing but hard to use. Especially @ place like silverwaste. When you are by yourself getting hit from all directions by husk troll wolves and bunch of teragriff no amount of evasions and block from that weapon combos.

LB/GS is still awesome @ openworld …. i don’t have a shred of problem @ silverwaste/dry top. Dps still excellent.

I love my GS/SA. The evades are just silly good. I even run a dagger offhand for some bosses (subject alpha etc.)

Yes, it’s an epic weapon combo. Maul, switch, PoS, auto, PoS, switch, 2x(Maul+other filler or auto waiting for CD), another Maul (squeeze in), switch rinse and repeat.
Sweet ……