Guild Wars 2

I’m going to be referencing today’s state of the game discussion, which can be viewed here: http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2guru/b/410812694

Particularly, at about 53:38, when the discussion for about a minute, shifts towards BM rangers.

What is mentioned is bringing down how hard the pets hit. Now, given that I can see why this change is being implemented, the thing that is concerning is this:

Why is that the only change mentioned?

Yes, the discussion did take a focus primarily towards necros and warriors, and the suggestion of using traits to improve build versatility seemed positive and good.
Why isn’t this the same thing being discussed about the ranger?

Is there not enough community representation(I think so, but still)?

Seriously, you cannot take a class with only 2 viable pvp specs and then nerf one of them with no further improvements. Improvements that were acknowledged back around November as necessary, but never saw any further discussion or implementation.
So, ultimately, it needs to be asked: Is there going to be any other improvements for the ranger class?

The question isn’t ranger specific, as many other classes do deserve to have the same questions asked, and the state of the games never really give all of the classes the representation they deserve.

First, calm down & don’t over-react.

It was an informal interview, not a carefully crafted statement. Ya, I’d feel better about it if they’d said the entire dynamic of Ranger vs. Pet overall power was being looked at with particular attention paid to reducing pet damage. But just because they didn’t say that doesn’t mean that it won’t be implemented that way once everything shakes out.

I’m extremely calm. If I seem irritated at all, it’s simply because that rangers were glossed over in yet another state of the game.

That still doesn’t mean these aren’t good questions, and they should be asked because we are apparently not going to be represented by a player live at a state of the game.

Ok, we’ll stick with “don’t over-react” then. I’ll answer your questions:

Why is that the only change mentioned?

Because there is only so much time and they can’t discuss everything they are thinking about on every issue.

Why isn’t this the same thing being discussed about the ranger?

How do you know it isn’t?

Is there going to be any other improvements for the ranger class?

We’ll have to wait and see.

Expect them to take the laziest approach and destroy wvw and dungeon playing rangers in the process even further. Well, it still leaves the trapper , for now :P

Blackbird.4382:

Ok, we’ll stick with “don’t over-react” then. I’ll answer your questions:

Why is that the only change mentioned?

Because there is only so much time and they can’t discuss everything they are thinking about on every issue.

Why isn’t this the same thing being discussed about the ranger?

How do you know it isn’t?

Is there going to be any other improvements for the ranger class?

We’ll have to wait and see.

Your answer is insufficient, you may stop responding now.

Boomstin.3460:

Expect them to take the laziest approach and destroy wvw and dungeon playing rangers in the process even further. Well, it still leaves the trapper , for now :P

Isn’t that like, every patch for rangers? Lol.

jcbroe.4329:

Your answer is insufficient, you may stop responding now.

They’re about as specific as you’re going to get. Honestly, why does it really matter? Just sit back and patiently await the changes that are going to come regardless of whatever answers you get in this thread.

Or you can get all worked up and read into a 45 second discussion that clearly wasn’t meant to be exhaustive of any and all future Ranger changes.

The ranger wasn’t commented on because SOTG is a PVP related venue, and right now outside of a Longbow power build or traps being really viable there are rangers on just about every team, and the BM ranger is incredibly powerful. It’s a bit crazy that you can send the drake to the center point and still be able to back cap, because the drake is kind of like a player all by himself.

Because of the issues that Necromancers and Warriors currently face in the tournaments, and it was very evident in the last tournament that when those two classes are focused they go down regardless of spec. This isn’t true of the ranger, and so they spent an extended time on the two classes that are poorly represented and really weak in the current state of tournament play.

While you have two viable builds, the Warrior and Necro have zero, Guardians have 2, Mesmers have 1 maybe 2, Elementalist have 2, and in fact I think everyone has 2 except the two classes they spent the most time talking about.

So you are currently in the same state as every other profession in terms of pvp and tournament play.

There’s a lot of creative people working on this game so it’s probably best just not to worry about it.

I’m sorry, my comments seem condescending &/or flippant. I really do understand your concern. You’ve spent a lot of time on your Ranger, and you want to be able to be effective. Nerfs are always scary because companies tend to over-nerf.

That said, I encourage you to take what you heard with a grain of salt. I could equally read into it by saying, since they didn’t mention that they weren’t substantially buffing the Ranger to compensate for the reduction in pet dmg that they must be because it’s only logical that they would.

We simply don’t know, and we won’t know until they tell us. Patience.

I will be watching the SOTG and commenting later, but as Bas said, rangers are on a TON of teams and are pretty freaking sturdy when being focused on, not to mention they can cap a point while harassing a different one (I like this, it’s unique and I think it should stay).

PS: mesmers have a lot more than 2 builds, but there are 2 EXTREMELY common ones.

Yeah Bas you make a good point. That only applies to pvp though. Some people play other aspects of the game also , and if Anet track record has proven anything , they most likely mess up wvw, dungeon rangers in the process while trying to fine tune their precious future ‘e-sport’

Standing on a point isn’t the apex of gaming evolution for everyone :P

This announcement doesnt surprise me at all. Expect a nerf to the spec with no other specs opening up. Ele 2.0 Train here we come.

Bas.7406:

The ranger wasn’t commented on because SOTG is a PVP related venue, and right now outside of a Longbow power build or traps being really viable there are rangers on just about every team, and the BM ranger is incredibly powerful. It’s a bit crazy that you can send the drake to the center point and still be able to back cap, because the drake is kind of like a player all by himself.

Because of the issues that Necromancers and Warriors currently face in the tournaments, and it was very evident in the last tournament that when those two classes are focused they go down regardless of spec. This isn’t true of the ranger, and so they spent an extended time on the two classes that are poorly represented and really weak in the current state of tournament play.

While you have two viable builds, the Warrior and Necro have zero, Guardians have 2, Mesmers have 1 maybe 2, Elementalist have 2, and in fact I think everyone has 2 except the two classes they spent the most time talking about.

So you are currently in the same state as every other profession in terms of pvp and tournament play.

You are not backcapping anything without a pet. That is a lie.

You will not beat or move any player out of a point by yourself without the pet. The pet is basically 60-70% of your damage as a BM bunker.

Puandro.3245:

This announcement doesnt surprise me at all. Expect a nerf to the spec with no other specs opening up. Ele 2.0 Train here we come.

Or mesmer for that matter. RtL did NOTHING to nerf Ele bunker, and the changes did not touch glyphs that nobody use or conjures, or the focus. Nobody still specs for fire or much of earth in pvp.

They nerfed confusion and nobody uses the scepter or torch offhand.

They nerfed the engineer confusion builds so toolkit is back to only being good for the shield and maybe on a power spec a prybar spike, but the main kits used are still grenade and bombs, with elixir gun particularly being marginalized.

They said they didn’t want to give spectral armor stability for fear of making it mandatory as a utility, despite the fact that nobody uses that ridiculous utility because all it is is a whopping 90 sec cd for 6 secs of protection.

Their “whack a mole” stance has borne nothing but decrease in build options. They still nerf more builds into obsolescence than they lift builds into viability.

Boomstin.3460:

Yeah Bas you make a good point. That only applies to pvp though. Some people play other aspects of the game also , and if Anet track record has proven anything , they most likely mess up wvw, dungeon rangers in the process while trying to fine tune their precious future ‘e-sport’

Standing on a point isn’t the apex of gaming evolution for everyone :P

I was only commenting on the pvp side, because SOTG has zero to do with pve or wvwvw. Unfortunately at this point there is no SOTG for WvWvW or PVE. Though from conversations I have had this may be coming soon.

Bas.7406:

Boomstin.3460:

Yeah Bas you make a good point. That only applies to pvp though. Some people play other aspects of the game also , and if Anet track record has proven anything , they most likely mess up wvw, dungeon rangers in the process while trying to fine tune their precious future ‘e-sport’

Standing on a point isn’t the apex of gaming evolution for everyone :P

I was only commenting on the pvp side, because SOTG has zero to do with pve or wvwvw. Unfortunately at this point there is no SOTG for WvWvW or PVE. Though from conversations I have had this may be coming soon.

I understand that. Unfortunately one or the other is going to get the short straw until they separate pvp,wvw and pve. That’s why the things they say in sotg is relevant to everyone.

I think people are overreacting to that video too.

That podcast is dedicated to sPvP issues. That’s why the balance discussion was all about necromancers and warriors. Those are clearly the two classes that need the most help in sPvP, no matter how good Hundred Blades berserkers are in dungeons. They didn’t talk much at all about the other 6 professions because the podcast was already an hour long and there’s only so much they can cover at one time.

Rangers are very well represented and very powerful in sPvP because that environment plays to all of the strengths of two of our best builds (trapper and BM bunker.) As someone else pointed out above, most other classes also only have ~2 solid builds for sPvP so rangers are not deficient in that department and did not warrant as much discussion or as many fixes as necromancers and warriors currently do.

We also know that Anet specifically balances all three phases of the game separately and have said recently that they’d like to make more differentiation to improve class balance across the board. If they decide to nerf beastmaster pets in sPvP they may very well choose to leave them alone (or even buff them) in PvE or WvW.

And as far as the final boldfaced question in the OP goes: Yes, there will be other improvements for the ranger class. You don’t need an Anet representative to tell you that, you just need common sense. They actively monitor game balance and patch improvements and bug fixes for all 8 classes on a semi-regular basis. The improvements will not be as big or as punctual as dedicated ranger players would like, but they absolutely will happen at some point in the future. You can count on it.

RtL got nerfed in PvE as well when there was no need for it. Or Arcane Wave’s cooldown in beta.

This la-la land where balance changes for one format don’t affect the other is more the exception than the rule.

Zenith.7301:

RtL got nerfed in PvE as well when there was no need for it. Or Arcane Wave’s cooldown in beta.

This la-la land where balance changes for one format don’t affect the other is more the exception than the rule.

They recently (as in within a month, not back during beta) said that they want to do more balance differentiation between the three game phases. It came up in the flame fest over the changes to the exposed debuff.

Zenith.7301:

RtL got nerfed in PvE as well when there was no need for it. Or Arcane Wave’s cooldown in beta.

This la-la land where balance changes for one format don’t affect the other is more the exception than the rule.

RTL was nerfed for wvwvw, where it was needed. The only place you would need it in open world pve or Dungeons it doesn’t matter if it was nerfed. It had no bearing on those situations. In wvwvw and pvp rtl had to be nerfed. Reminder, it wasn’t nerfed if you actually hit a target. If you dont’ hit someone you get 40 second cd. This is a good change.

Bas.7406:

Zenith.7301:

RtL got nerfed in PvE as well when there was no need for it. Or Arcane Wave’s cooldown in beta.

This la-la land where balance changes for one format don’t affect the other is more the exception than the rule.

RTL was nerfed for wvwvw, where it was needed. The only place you would need it in open world pve or Dungeons it doesn’t matter if it was nerfed. It had no bearing on those situations. In wvwvw and pvp rtl had to be nerfed. Reminder, it wasn’t nerfed if you actually hit a target. If you dont’ hit someone you get 40 second cd. This is a good change.

Travel time is pretty important to PvE — consider doing DE’s or world completion on your ele now vs. before; this change added a couple of hours to your world completion time. It used to be 15 sec cd, then it got increased to 20, and then it went up to 40 for travel purposes. Meanwhile my ranger retains his Swoop, which does the same thing on a shorter cooldown, and he can add Monarch’s Leap and LR to gain even more distance traveled than the ele ever could.

And RtL wasn’t nerfed for WvW, let’s be real here. An ele can still disengage just fine with it in WvW, which is what people were complaining about. RtL was nerfed because tpvp people cried that eles could travel between points too well.

Blackbird.4382:

I’m sorry, my comments seem condescending &/or flippant. I really do understand your concern. You’ve spent a lot of time on your Ranger, and you want to be able to be effective. Nerfs are always scary because companies tend to over-nerf.

That said, I encourage you to take what you heard with a grain of salt. I could equally read into it by saying, since they didn’t mention that they weren’t substantially buffing the Ranger to compensate for the reduction in pet dmg that they must be because it’s only logical that they would.

We simply don’t know, and we won’t know until they tell us. Patience.

No it’s fine, and I get it, and my OP was rantish, but I guess my main thing is this (and this incorporates all of the rest of the responses to this thread):

In a State of the Game situation, the players are representing a part of the community, and the devs are representing the voices and philosophies of their company.

It is poor on the devs part to state only negatives, without mentioning at the very least that they are aware of the other issues that plague the class. Just as it is poor for the players participating to not ask any follow up questions about classes when only negatives are mentioned, simply because it represents that they either have no idea on the state of the class, or they just don’t care about the class, so that the community that plays the class isn’t equally represented.

@Bas, I am well aware of the state of the metagame, and I fully understand the focus being towards necros and warriors. However, that doesn’t warrant giving the devs the window to announce a nerf with its respective reasoning, and then not following up with how they feel the state of that class will be after the nerf, especially when they seem to try to preach increasing versatility, and then only announce nerf.

While I am disappointed with the stagnant feel that has fallen over the ranger (and the game in lots of aspects), that isn’t what I was trying to voice, though that certainly plays a part in it.

What I am trying to voice is that I am very discontented by the lack of representation the ranger community has when communicating with the devs, which allows them to come off as unaware or uncaring towards the class simply because there is nobody to draw focus towards it that understands the issues that rangers have.

Isn’t anybody else tired of watching the devs or the top tier players that host the state of the games gloss over and/or laugh every time the ranger is brought up, with no serious effort put into analysis or deeper explanation?

RTL in pve was convenience only, so not that big a deal. Increasing the recast timer definitely hurt Eles in WvW. Not necessarily in a 1 use vacuum, but in general play. It needed the nerf, and it was worth the very minor inconvenience in pve.

Seriously, this is getting a little ridiculous. It seems like every time there is anything good about a ranger build, it gets nerfed. Then when people find the next best build and start doing well, it gets nerfed again.

And who exactly is deciding that the pets hit too hard? Is it the player community or just a few devs? Who makes the decisions to nerf our best build while fixing little known bugs that no one cares about?

Zenith.7301:

Travel time is pretty important to PvE — consider doing DE’s or world completion on your ele now vs. before; this change added a couple of hours to your world completion time. It used to be 15 sec cd, then it got increased to 20, and then it went up to 40 for travel purposes. Meanwhile my ranger retains his Swoop, which does the same thing on a shorter cooldown, and he can add Monarch’s Leap and LR to gain even more distance traveled than the ele ever could.

Ok, you’re probably right there. I doubt Anet considers world completion time to be a serious balance issue because it’s not very difficult, it’s going to be very time consuming regardless and it’s something most players do solo.

Comparing specific skills between different classes is misleading, though. The difference between an elementalist and a ranger is a lot more than the cooldown on their mobility skills.

Chez.8257:

And who exactly is deciding that the pets hit too hard? Is it the player community or just a few devs?

It’s the player community, of course. Didn’t you get your ballot? Game design is a democracy and we all vote on who gets nerfed.

Stice.5204:

Zenith.7301:

Travel time is pretty important to PvE — consider doing DE’s or world completion on your ele now vs. before; this change added a couple of hours to your world completion time. It used to be 15 sec cd, then it got increased to 20, and then it went up to 40 for travel purposes. Meanwhile my ranger retains his Swoop, which does the same thing on a shorter cooldown, and he can add Monarch’s Leap and LR to gain even more distance traveled than the ele ever could.

Ok, you’re probably right there. I doubt Anet considers world completion time to be a serious balance issue because it’s not very difficult, it’s going to be very time consuming regardless and it’s something most players do solo.

Comparing specific skills between different classes is misleading, though. The difference between an elementalist and a ranger is a lot more than the cooldown on their mobility skills.

I don’t see a meaningful difference in disengagement.

If I want to escape a 40 man zerg on my ranger, I will. Just like my ele or thief.

The ele needed nerfs to cantrips and condition clears, not mobility. And in turn for that nerf in cantrips its base defense or at least defenses for speccing into the other lines need to go up because NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY despite the train of nerfs they’ve received still skips 20 points in arcana or water.

Because not speccing 20 into arcana or water means you die in a couple of hits regardless of your gearing. You don’t have the easily repeatable, instant spike of mesmers or thieves, and you have all the frailty if you don’t spec for cantrips.

Try playing an ele without cantrips or 20 arcana/water for a while and get back to me.

How hard is it to focus fire a Drake pet and force the ranger to swap in PvP…. If you’re letting a pet run around the field in Structured…that’s your own fault..

Stice.5204:

Chez.8257:

And who exactly is deciding that the pets hit too hard? Is it the player community or just a few devs?

It’s the player community, of course. Didn’t you get your ballot? Game design is a democracy and we all vote on who gets nerfed.

You have to play a thief to get the ballot though ; )

nerfing ranger pet damage ummm yeah we don’t do enough as it is lets nerf them some more we gave pets more toughness so they can aggro more and oh wait AOE still one shots it….. from an boss in a dungeon run unless your running guard with a bunker build and OP healing so lets just nerf them and watch a class just roll over an die.

It’s almost like Anet don’t want anyone to play ranger anymore.

I agree it’s frustrating. Even on my Thief things feel inconsistent and half finished.

ANet’s answers are all over the place and far removed from the original design blogs that used to be on this very site. Then again, when ascended gear was added and the vertical progression flap was blowing around, I suppose all that talk turned into smoke.

Lévis.5489:

It’s almost like Anet don’t want anyone to play ranger anymore.

Things HAVE been consistently getting nerfed since beta for the ranger, with the only exception being that little boost to Maul last balance patch.

I think a strong inductive argument could be made that the devs are trying to get people as furious as they possibly can before they rage to another class, or switch to a different game.

Bas.7406:

It’s a bit crazy that you can send the drake to the center point and still be able to back cap, because the drake is kind of like a player all by himself.

Viable build isn’t the same as ‘a good build’
The beastmaster ranger is trash conceptually… an extremely evade heavy, health regen tank that just survives with AI based dps… YET CAN’T JOIN LARGER FIGHT, where things like positioning and teamwork start to make up for the shallow play of the spec itself…
Probably the worst class design I’ve yet to see.

I don’t give a flying duck about build diversity as long as what exists is well made… which makes it entertaining… a game doesn’t need oodles and oodles of specs to choose from or perfect balance to have good gameplay… just good gameplay…
It’s why the playerbase tends to be bad at suggesting fixes.
It’s even more tragically why the guys at Anet are struggling so much as developers…
They lost sight of that concept ages ago, a few years into GW1…

Stice.5204:

the podcast was already an hour long and there’s only so much they can cover at one time.

That’s because they are bad at casting.
They could easily fit 45 minutes of conversation into a bullet point list tagged on to the stream and spend that time talking about ANYTHING… like specific roles classes can fill with certain specs, what they are looking to expand on, what the main roadblock seem to be in that, how they are looking to get over it, the ‘pro’ players can of course chime in about how they see the situation and how that stuff is best for the game as a whole…

garethh.3518:

That’s because they are bad at casting.

“So I’ve been talking to So and So and Whatshisface, and they feel that…oh, you’re making a face.”
“What?”
“You have a face.”
“Yeah, well…we agree with that and we just can’t tell you about it now.”
“Oh, I see…So when I talked about this with them…”
“Right, it’s being worked on. Without telling you, because we can’t, we’re doing this.”
“And back to the other thing?”
“That’s getting buffed, too, but we can’t tell you how or when or why. Just know for that class it is. And that prior class we mentioned.”
“Sorry guys, I’m having a private Skype convo.”
“Anyone have any questions?”
“If it’s not about my comp, and my build, nope.”

Xsorus.2507:

How hard is it to focus fire a Drake pet and force the ranger to swap in PvP…. If you’re letting a pet run around the field in Structured…that’s your own fault..

Pretty much this. It’s not rocket science spotting the difference between BM and trapper. If it’s BM you’re not going to even hit the ranger itself…and while you’re busy trying the pet does it’s thing.

I mean.. if the Ranger is at one point camping, and he “sends” his pet after someone at another point fighting, turn around and focus the pet real fast, you’ll either kill the pet, or force a swap, removing the problem..

Whining that it takes to much effort to do this is silly.

Bas.7406:

The ranger wasn’t commented on because SOTG is a PVP related venue, and right now outside of a Longbow power build or traps being really viable there are rangers on just about every team, and the BM ranger is incredibly powerful. It’s a bit crazy that you can send the drake to the center point and still be able to back cap, because the drake is kind of like a player all by himself.

Because of the issues that Necromancers and Warriors currently face in the tournaments, and it was very evident in the last tournament that when those two classes are focused they go down regardless of spec. This isn’t true of the ranger, and so they spent an extended time on the two classes that are poorly represented and really weak in the current state of tournament play.

While you have two viable builds, the Warrior and Necro have zero, Guardians have 2, Mesmers have 1 maybe 2, Elementalist have 2, and in fact I think everyone has 2 except the two classes they spent the most time talking about.

So you are currently in the same state as every other profession in terms of pvp and tournament play.

Which 2 do you mean? BM and Traps?

Dojo.1867:

Bas.7406:

The ranger wasn’t commented on because SOTG is a PVP related venue, and right now outside of a Longbow power build or traps being really viable there are rangers on just about every team, and the BM ranger is incredibly powerful. It’s a bit crazy that you can send the drake to the center point and still be able to back cap, because the drake is kind of like a player all by himself.

Because of the issues that Necromancers and Warriors currently face in the tournaments, and it was very evident in the last tournament that when those two classes are focused they go down regardless of spec. This isn’t true of the ranger, and so they spent an extended time on the two classes that are poorly represented and really weak in the current state of tournament play.

While you have two viable builds, the Warrior and Necro have zero, Guardians have 2, Mesmers have 1 maybe 2, Elementalist have 2, and in fact I think everyone has 2 except the two classes they spent the most time talking about.

So you are currently in the same state as every other profession in terms of pvp and tournament play.

Which 2 do you mean? BM and Traps?

I can think of 3 that work well in PvP. BM Hybrid (Soldier’s), Healing BM (Cleric’s), and traps (w/e with condition damage).

Well just changing the amulet (and some minor stuff) still means it is BM so those are only two builds imo. I am saying this way too often but imo we don’t have any decent condition removal beside Empathic Bond which forces every ranger into 30 Wilderness survival and already directs your stats towards armor and condition damage. So the logical step is letting your pet deal damage (30 into BM) or going for traps (30 skirmishing).

That is really all the “depth” we have currently when talking about build variety. I actually run a direct dmg longbow/GS ranger but I kind of feel like a warrior currently. Almost but just not there (and one reason is lack of decent condition removal).

And what really hurts me is that they nerf the class but don’t do anything about the underplayed stuff. Especially when telling people that pets deal too much damage it makes me mad how they seem to have forgotten about completly unused pets like pigs or moas due to horrible f2 handling (pigs) or ridiculous numbers on them (4sec protection on 40 seconds cooldown on blue Moa). Yes pets are propably a more complex topic and not that easy to “fix” in many aspects but they don’t even care about the obvious stuff. Low priorities are low!

Dojo.1867:

Well just changing the amulet (and some minor stuff) still means it is BM so those are only two builds imo. I am saying this way too often but imo we don’t have any decent condition removal beside Empathic Bond which forces every ranger into 30 Wilderness survival and already directs your stats towards armor and condition damage. So the logical step is letting your pet deal damage (30 into BM) or going for traps (30 skirmishing).

That is really all the “depth” we have currently when talking about build variety. I actually run a direct dmg longbow/GS ranger but I kind of feel like a warrior currently. Almost but just not their (and one reason is lack of decent condition removal).

Well, my “Hybrid BM” is a 0/20/20/0/30 build, and most bunker regens are 0/0/30/10/30. I use Soldier’s stuff and Melandru runes. I’d say it’s different enough. :P

But yea, there’s really not much variety at all.

May I ask how you deal with conditions with that?

As I said I also don’t have the luxury of Empathic Bond and I run Healing Spring and just avoid condition heavy skirmishes the best I can. Signet of Renewal is just so bad. One condition every 10 seconds means a certain death if they apply a big stack of burning or confusion and it doesn’t even get removed by the RNG. The active is on a horribly high cooldown and when your pet isn’t in range all it does is even turn off the crappy every 10 second removal. If it actually is in range you kitten your pet damage and might even kill it. This skill is so bad compared to condi removal of other classes but yet we have to use it because we lack alternative options.

I would take a breaks stun and removes 3 conditions on 35 second cd over that at any time.

Dojo.1867:

May I ask how you deal with conditions with that?

As I said I also don’t have the luxury of Empathic Bond and I run Healing Spring and just avoid condition heavy skirmishes the best I can. Signet of Renewal is just so bad. One condition every 10 seconds means a certain death if they apply a big stack of burning or confusion and it doesn’t even get removed by the RNG. The active is on a horribly high cooldown and when your pet isn’t in range all it does is even turn off the crappy every 10 second removal. If it actually is in range you kitten your pet damage and might even kill it. This skill is so bad compared to condi removal of other classes but yet we have to use it because we lack alternative options.

I would take a breaks stun and removes 3 conditions on 35 second cd over that at any time.

Well, I have Healing Spring, and the Melandru runes give me -25% condition duration. That’s it, though. xD

I haven’t lost a 1v1 yet. In a 1v2, I can perform well. 1v3 is difficult, but doable. 1v4+ I don’t even try to do.

I once held off 3 guys (a Warrior, a Guardian, and something else) in front of a treb for about 3 minutes before a Mesmer came in. They downed me pretty quickly after that. Sucks, too, ’cause before the Mesmer came along, I almost had the Warrior down. lol.

Dojo.1867:

May I ask how you deal with conditions with that?

As I said I also don’t have the luxury of Empathic Bond and I run Healing Spring and just avoid condition heavy skirmishes the best I can. Signet of Renewal is just so bad. One condition every 10 seconds means a certain death if they apply a big stack of burning or confusion and it doesn’t even get removed by the RNG. The active is on a horribly high cooldown and when your pet isn’t in range all it does is even turn off the crappy every 10 second removal. If it actually is in range you kitten your pet damage and might even kill it. This skill is so bad compared to condi removal of other classes but yet we have to use it because we lack alternative options.

I would take a breaks stun and removes 3 conditions on 35 second cd over that at any time.

Signet of Renewal is amazing… it has this fancy thing called an Active, that removes every single condition from you and dumps it on your pet, so you can kinda use that and then swap your pet and look, every condition they just threw on you has been discarded into the void, oh yeah, that fancy active does that for ALL ALLIES in the area, meaning you can completely negate a condition builds “burst”. “Hey bro, i see you just used Corrupt Boons + Sig of Spite + Epidemic, whelp sucks to suck cause i just used sig of renewal.”

Not to mention that the Stun Break is also AoE… It’s on a mesily 60s CD which can be traited down to 48s, and then you also have healing spring, which is ANOTHER AoE condi removal (granted not as powerful). And then if you still have issues with condis for some ungodly reason you can take sigils of purity and/or Runes of Melandru and just give condis the middle finger because you don’t give a kitten about them anymore.

But hey guys, rangers are AWFUL at dealing with condis.

If engineers are not reapplying conditions more often than every 48-60 seconds, you face terrible engineers.

Ranger condi removal doesn’t hold a candle to thief, ele, or guardian condi removal.

Zenith.7301:

If engineers are not reapplying conditions more often than every 48-60 seconds, you face terrible engineers.

Ranger condi removal doesn’t hold a candle to thief, ele, or guardian condi removal.

Thief removal is pretty abysmal dude, they have their heal, and that’s about the end of the list, don’t forget that we have healing spring which removes a condi every 3s for 15s, and the trait that removes 3 condis every 10s, and then we have TONS of regen to counteract them as well.

As for ele and guardian, they’re kinda supposed to be good at it, so idk why you think we should be on par with them, i’d say you’d better off be saying Necro, Ele, or Guardian, not thief, they’re pretty horrendous at removing them, i should know, i play a condi mes and engi it’s funny watching them squirm.

The AoE is nice but hard to make use of it. If you need a fast condition removal 60 seconds is kitten and so is the fact that you have to pet swap or it will do nothing because the pet is so far away. If your pet swap is on cd and your pet somewhere else you are – once again – kittened.

Some classes have a heal that removes 8 conditions (ele, but hey it is not that they even need it). Believe me when I say that ranger without Empathic bond is just lost versus conditions and best thing you can do is avoid fighting condition specs.

Durzlla.6295:

Zenith.7301:

If engineers are not reapplying conditions more often than every 48-60 seconds, you face terrible engineers.

Ranger condi removal doesn’t hold a candle to thief, ele, or guardian condi removal.

Thief removal is pretty abysmal dude, they have their heal, and that’s about the end of the list, don’t forget that we have healing spring which removes a condi every 3s for 15s, and the trait that removes 3 condis every 10s, and then we have TONS of regen to counteract them as well.

As for ele and guardian, they’re kinda supposed to be good at it, so idk why you think we should be on par with them, i’d say you’d better off be saying Necro, Ele, or Guardian, not thief, they’re pretty horrendous at removing them, i should know, i play a condi mes and engi it’s funny watching them squirm.

Thieves remove conditions with their heal and every time they enter stealth and every 3 seconds they remain in stealth. For every BP-HS combo they do they wipe off conditions. Shadowstep removes 3 conditions alongside being a double stun break.

Zenith.7301:

Durzlla.6295:

Zenith.7301:

If engineers are not reapplying conditions more often than every 48-60 seconds, you face terrible engineers.

Ranger condi removal doesn’t hold a candle to thief, ele, or guardian condi removal.

Thief removal is pretty abysmal dude, they have their heal, and that’s about the end of the list, don’t forget that we have healing spring which removes a condi every 3s for 15s, and the trait that removes 3 condis every 10s, and then we have TONS of regen to counteract them as well.

As for ele and guardian, they’re kinda supposed to be good at it, so idk why you think we should be on par with them, i’d say you’d better off be saying Necro, Ele, or Guardian, not thief, they’re pretty horrendous at removing them, i should know, i play a condi mes and engi it’s funny watching them squirm.

Thieves remove conditions with their heal and every time they enter stealth and every 3 seconds they remain in stealth. For every BP-HS combo they do they wipe off conditions. Shadowstep removes 3 conditions alongside being a double stun break.

Shadow step also has a 50s CD, and what causes them to lose a condi every time they enter stealth? I know about the 3s in stealth one.

That being said they’re still not -that- great at condi removal, they certainly can’t keep up with any of my condi profs and end up with a flag through their chest.

shrugs Rangers just seem like they’re much better at going against condis then thieves, especially seeing as how we don’t have the lowest possible health in the game, and as i said we actually have tons of health regen that mitigates a lot of what the condis can do.