Guild Wars 2

Durzlla.6295:

Archon.6480:

Fluffball.8307:

Archon.6480:

No, you will loose this fight. Even with berserker, scholars, and damage runes. Decent warrior will squash you every time. You need to get in his face and beat the snot out of him. But with berserker he with clobber you in seconds with swords. You’ll need a better build for this kind of warrior in tpvp, spvp or WvW.

What the hell are you talking about? I didn’t mention any builds or strategies or anything of the sort. A warrior using only a LB is not using warrior to a high potential. Do you disagree with that?

I am talking about ranger besting warrior in PvP with LB. Go to the PvP forum or warrior forum and post that rubbish. Anyone who plays PvP a little knows that is not true.

Maybe if you’re a bad ranger… If you’re running LB + GS you should be able to handle warriors, it won’t be an EASY fight, but it’s doable, even against good warriors. It’s even easier if you’re using RaO or have a signet build and have access to SotW or other stability.

And if you can’t keep the warrior off you long enough to get a few of your max range shots… you’re a bad ranger and need to learn how to use your skills.

If you are figthing against a good warrior he will never let you kite……

urdriel.8496:

Durzlla.6295:

Archon.6480:

Fluffball.8307:

Archon.6480:

No, you will loose this fight. Even with berserker, scholars, and damage runes. Decent warrior will squash you every time. You need to get in his face and beat the snot out of him. But with berserker he with clobber you in seconds with swords. You’ll need a better build for this kind of warrior in tpvp, spvp or WvW.

What the hell are you talking about? I didn’t mention any builds or strategies or anything of the sort. A warrior using only a LB is not using warrior to a high potential. Do you disagree with that?

I am talking about ranger besting warrior in PvP with LB. Go to the PvP forum or warrior forum and post that rubbish. Anyone who plays PvP a little knows that is not true.

Maybe if you’re a bad ranger… If you’re running LB + GS you should be able to handle warriors, it won’t be an EASY fight, but it’s doable, even against good warriors. It’s even easier if you’re using RaO or have a signet build and have access to SotW or other stability.

And if you can’t keep the warrior off you long enough to get a few of your max range shots… you’re a bad ranger and need to learn how to use your skills.

If you are figthing against a good warrior he will never let you kite……

What do you mean “let you kite”? Just pay attention to his boons and knock him around when stability ends. Also make them fight on your terms, if you’re having trouble run to a spot where you can use the terrain to your advantage. I think one of my favorite things is positioning myself and knocking or fearing someone off the side of a cliff to die.

Durzlla.6295:

…you’re a bad ranger…
…you’re a bad ranger…

Stop it, immediately! The ranger is subpar to the warrior. Period. That doesn’t mean that the warrior always wins or that a selfclaimed proplayer is able to win the most fights as ranger vs. warriors. But it means that the warrior has to invest less skill and less effort to beat a ranger than a ranger has to invest to beat a warrior.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Durzlla.6295:

…you’re a bad ranger…
…you’re a bad ranger…

Stop it, immediately! The ranger is subpar to the warrior. Period. That doesn’t mean that the warrior always wins or that a selfclaimed proplayer is able to win the most fights as ranger vs. warriors. But it means that the warrior has to invest less skill and less effort to beat a ranger than a ranger has to invest to beat a warrior.

Agreed. Its not impossible to beat a warrior, but we have to put more effort in than they do.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Durzlla.6295:

…you’re a bad ranger…
…you’re a bad ranger…

Stop it, immediately! The ranger is subpar to the warrior. Period. That doesn’t mean that the warrior always wins or that a selfclaimed proplayer is able to win the most fights as ranger vs. warriors. But it means that the warrior has to invest less skill and less effort to beat a ranger than a ranger has to invest to beat a warrior.

So your logic is “Warrior is easier to play than ranger therefore warrior is better than ranger.”, by that logic warrior is the best profession in the game because of how simple it is to play at a competent level. Got it.

Durzlla.6295:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Durzlla.6295:

…you’re a bad ranger…
…you’re a bad ranger…

Stop it, immediately! The ranger is subpar to the warrior. Period. That doesn’t mean that the warrior always wins or that a selfclaimed proplayer is able to win the most fights as ranger vs. warriors. But it means that the warrior has to invest less skill and less effort to beat a ranger than a ranger has to invest to beat a warrior.

So your logic is “Warrior is easier to play than ranger therefore warrior is better than ranger.”, by that logic warrior is the best profession in the game because of how simple it is to play at a competent level. Got it.

“Ranger is subpar to the warrior”. As much as I dislike that statement, its kind of true in most situations if you think about it.

Dungeons: Max dps of rangers is lower than warriors by ~5% (according to DnT calculations)
Fractals: Rangers < Warriors
WvW zerg: Rangers < Warriors

I can’t outright say which is better in pvp/roaming coz theres too many builds, but I can tell you warriors take a lot less effort to play.

I think the 5% less is a bit of a misleading number, I’m pretty sure that number is relative to the warrior’s lowest DPS build, the “Banner kitten” (EA + double banner). Once you compare it to the other warrior builds, the DPS difference is a lot greater. They also came up with that number before they realized pure GS was viable, and is 3.8% more dps (EA versions)

That and Ranger theoretical DPS is significantly harder to translate into the game. If you’re doing anything other than straight up AA-ing, you’re increasing the gap.

From a speed run PoV, rangers are pretty subpar and their buffs fall into the “Nice to have” category rather than mandatory for most runs.

Rangers are there for players to choose in character creation if they like the idea of being a Ranger within the game setting.

Jim Hunter.6821:

urdriel.8496:

Durzlla.6295:

Archon.6480:

Fluffball.8307:

Archon.6480:

No, you will loose this fight. Even with berserker, scholars, and damage runes. Decent warrior will squash you every time. You need to get in his face and beat the snot out of him. But with berserker he with clobber you in seconds with swords. You’ll need a better build for this kind of warrior in tpvp, spvp or WvW.

What the hell are you talking about? I didn’t mention any builds or strategies or anything of the sort. A warrior using only a LB is not using warrior to a high potential. Do you disagree with that?

I am talking about ranger besting warrior in PvP with LB. Go to the PvP forum or warrior forum and post that rubbish. Anyone who plays PvP a little knows that is not true.

Maybe if you’re a bad ranger… If you’re running LB + GS you should be able to handle warriors, it won’t be an EASY fight, but it’s doable, even against good warriors. It’s even easier if you’re using RaO or have a signet build and have access to SotW or other stability.

And if you can’t keep the warrior off you long enough to get a few of your max range shots… you’re a bad ranger and need to learn how to use your skills.

If you are figthing against a good warrior he will never let you kite……

What do you mean “let you kite”? Just pay attention to his boons and knock him around when stability ends. Also make them fight on your terms, if you’re having trouble run to a spot where you can use the terrain to your advantage. I think one of my favorite things is positioning myself and knocking or fearing someone off the side of a cliff to die.

it is easy to say but if he is a good warrior you will have a hard time trying to kill him throwing him from a cliff…..

Durzlla.6295:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Durzlla.6295:

…you’re a bad ranger…
…you’re a bad ranger…

Stop it, immediately! The ranger is subpar to the warrior. Period. That doesn’t mean that the warrior always wins or that a selfclaimed proplayer is able to win the most fights as ranger vs. warriors. But it means that the warrior has to invest less skill and less effort to beat a ranger than a ranger has to invest to beat a warrior.

So your logic is “Warrior is easier to play than ranger therefore warrior is better than ranger.”, by that logic warrior is the best profession in the game because of how simple it is to play at a competent level. Got it.

Subpar ?? no….. a warrior is easy to play, you have DPS, armor, a big HP pool ,good mobility, very good traits, etc…

Always remember my words when it comes to compare W to R!
My TANK Warrior does TWICE the DPS than my hybrid ZERKER Ranger.
Yes, ranger can attack from range, but it also means you’re out of sight when it comes to help you or heal/buff you…

Is it Balance?

Durzlla.6295:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Durzlla.6295:

…you’re a bad ranger…
…you’re a bad ranger…

Stop it, immediately! The ranger is subpar to the warrior. Period. That doesn’t mean that the warrior always wins or that a selfclaimed proplayer is able to win the most fights as ranger vs. warriors. But it means that the warrior has to invest less skill and less effort to beat a ranger than a ranger has to invest to beat a warrior.

So your logic is “Warrior is easier to play than ranger therefore warrior is better than ranger.”, by that logic warrior is the best profession in the game because of how simple it is to play at a competent level. Got it.

Even a ranger played to its fullest potential can’t outshine the warrior who’s considered to have a cap you can’t go beyond statwise, because the warrior starts at higher levels statwise, with no flaws. The ranger on the other side starts way lower, further hindered by flaws such as relying on an AI wich ArenaNet repeatedly fails to fix.
And please don’t consider working against the flaws of a class as skillfull since you wont get anything just by compensating the lacks of the ranger.
If you invest a set amount of time to master one specific class, I can assure you, that you will be better with any other class than the ranger.

RoyalPredator.9163:

Always remember my words when it comes to compare W to R!
My TANK Warrior does TWICE the DPS than my hybrid ZERKER Ranger.
Yes, ranger can attack from range, but it also means you’re out of sight when it comes to help you or heal/buff you…

Is it Balance?

That seems a little far fetched. Whats a hybrid zerker ranger? I recognise that rangers are subpar from warriors, but we’re not too bad.

Hybrid means I’m not fully on power+crits, have survivality too (vitality, toughness) as a minor, but my overal dmg is still high compared to other rangers I see on field.

So your tank warrior does 100% more damage than a berserker ranger when a berserker warrior does 5 or 8% more damage than a berserker ranger. That makes perfect sense.

At any rate, DPS is not very relevant for anything other than PvE. Skills like hundred blades lose most of their effectiveness, and conditions, CC, and evades become far more important. All PvE warriors run greatsword. No PvP warriors run greatsword.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Durzlla.6295:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Durzlla.6295:

…you’re a bad ranger…
…you’re a bad ranger…

Stop it, immediately! The ranger is subpar to the warrior. Period. That doesn’t mean that the warrior always wins or that a selfclaimed proplayer is able to win the most fights as ranger vs. warriors. But it means that the warrior has to invest less skill and less effort to beat a ranger than a ranger has to invest to beat a warrior.

So your logic is “Warrior is easier to play than ranger therefore warrior is better than ranger.”, by that logic warrior is the best profession in the game because of how simple it is to play at a competent level. Got it.

Even a ranger played to its fullest potential can’t outshine the warrior who’s considered to have a cap you can’t go beyond statwise, because the warrior starts at higher levels statwise, with no flaws. The ranger on the other side starts way lower, further hindered by flaws such as relying on an AI wich ArenaNet repeatedly fails to fix.
And please don’t consider working against the flaws of a class as skillfull since you wont get anything just by compensating the lacks of the ranger.
If you invest a set amount of time to master one specific class, I can assure you, that you will be better with any other class than the ranger.

Well i would say being able to deal with the kittenty AI is skillful, doesn’t mean that it should stay that way and shouldn’t be fixed though, there’s a difference.

Also, I can agree with the bolded statement 100% (never thought i’d say that about any of your posts lol), I can literally grab a warrior, which i’ve probably played a grand total of an hour and a half, and outperform my ability on my ranger just because of the prof itself.

I mean warrior USED TO have 2 major flaws, 1) Condis ruined the profession, and 2) going up against heavy boon users made your life hell, so they may have been tanky and had damage, but they were easily controlled and negated unless your team assisted you. Then Anet decided warrior didn’t deserve weaknesses anymore… cause logic…

Fluffball.8307:

So your tank warrior does 100% more damage than a berserker ranger when a berserker warrior does 5 or 8% more damage than a berserker ranger. That makes perfect sense.

To say more clearly, my ranger shoots 2500-3200 if it crits.
My warrior chops ~3000 crits with axe ~twice faster.

RoyalPredator.9163:

Fluffball.8307:

So your tank warrior does 100% more damage than a berserker ranger when a berserker warrior does 5 or 8% more damage than a berserker ranger. That makes perfect sense.

To say more clearly, my ranger shoots 2500-3200 if it crits.
My warrior chops ~3000 crits with axe ~twice faster.

You’re comparing a ranged weapon to a melee weapon and not testing them under the same conditions.

Warriors are exceptional self buffers while rangers are more reliant on their party to reach their maximum damage output.

Not really a fair comparison unless it’s for PvP which usually doesn’t play with every possible damage buff.

RoyalPredator.9163:

Fluffball.8307:

So your tank warrior does 100% more damage than a berserker ranger when a berserker warrior does 5 or 8% more damage than a berserker ranger. That makes perfect sense.

To say more clearly, my ranger shoots 2500-3200 if it crits.
My warrior chops ~3000 crits with axe ~twice faster.

That’s your own fault for comparing incomparable builds, not the builds’ fault. First, in PvE, max damage warriors are slightly better than max damage rangers. It is no where near 100% better and you know that. Second, you’re comparing a ranged build to a melee build. Third, DPS is largely irrelevant in PvP as I said. Things like stealth, evades, teleports, knockbacks, etc. are more important.

You know all of this already; this isn’t the first time you’ve vehemently decreed rangers to be totally impotent. You are not being rationale, you’re being dramatic and ridiculous.

So you say, when I compare my warrior in the same fields and conditions (soloplay somewhere, or just www), It does not count? It does.
It does even count that my warrior can stack up mights and my ranger can’t.
Even the Signet of Rage is mutch more powerful than Rampage as One.
(With good pets I would be more effective I know, but I don’t want a pet that I don’t like the look of it… It is my problem I know, not like pet’s couldn’t have choseable effects/conditions aka sub-builds, like was in pre-release alpha.)

Range does not really matter most of times, when my warrior almost tooks no damages and kills faster, and the bow ranger may kills an NPC foe before it could reach, but just 1vs1, the rest still gets in cast-range.
In WWW, they stick on you and you’re not really able to mantain distance versus good players. If you do, that opponent is in stealth or healing up anyway, or just blocking and stuff… Or you just stay behind and stay out of care too.

I don’t feel like to make a video proof, I just say what I see, and my warrior is just way superior to my ranger anywhere, anytime. I may sound dramatic, but no one can really question my own experiences when I can roll the warrior half handed in www doing a phone-call, without mutch trouble, but as Ranger I even get invisible damages at ranges.
(My HP just drops and nothing seems to hit me…)

Ridiculous? Balance is, not me. Try out for yourself if you have doupts.

RoyalPredator.9163:

So you say, when I compare my warrior in the same fields and conditions (soloplay somewhere, or just www), It does not count? It does.
It does even count that my warrior can stack up mights and my ranger can’t.
Even the Signet of Rage is mutch more powerful than Rampage as One.
(With good pets I would be more effective I know, but I don’t want a pet that I don’t like the look of it… It is my problem I know, not like pet’s couldn’t have choseable effects/conditions aka sub-builds, like was in pre-release alpha.)

Range does not really matter most of times, when my warrior almost tooks no damages and kills faster, and the bow ranger may kills an NPC foe before it could reach, but just 1vs1, the rest still gets in cast-range.
In WWW, they stick on you and you’re not really able to mantain distance versus good players. If you do, that opponent is in stealth or healing up anyway, or just blocking and stuff… Or you just stay behind and stay out of care too.

I don’t feel like to make a video proof, I just say what I see, and my warrior is just way superior to my ranger anywhere, anytime. I may sound dramatic, but no one can really question my own experiences when I can roll the warrior half handed in www doing a phone-call, without mutch trouble, but as Ranger I even get invisible damages at ranges.
(My HP just drops and nothing seems to hit me…)

Ridiculous? Balance is, not me. Try out for yourself if you have doupts.

I gotta say that you were kinda “in the wrong” (not the best way to phrase it but i can’t think of a better way) with your comparison of a Melee and Ranged weapon when Anet has said that Melee will outperform ranged in terms of damage and control due to the risk vs reward.

However, I’ve gotta agree that the warrior does out perform the ranger pretty hard core atm, and the main reason for that, as i stated above, is that the warriors are totally lacking in a negative for their profession, whereas every other prof still has their initial negatives.

Warriors WERE weak to heavy boon and condi use (by the enemy) and needed their allies to rip/cleanse them so they could wreck people (they could still 1v1 decently, they were just able to be kited/mitigated) then Anet decided to remove those weaknesses through 2 traits that every warrior build ever takes.

Just tell me, what kind of additional risk do I take with a tank warrior, compared to a ranger which gets no buffs, out of sight of mates and is a primary target of easyloot?
If you help me understand this, or just have an another angle of view on this, would help me to understand AN’s philosophy on this.

(Btw, just came to my mind; Range+ weapons aka snipers in fps games are 1 hit killers, why, is there no risk? The snipers are always alone and always at same spots. Not to compare GW2 to an FPS but the basic “ways to figh” are the ~same.)

RoyalPredator.9163:

snip

Yes because 100% more damage is a very big exaggeration. Also, environment =/= conditions. For clarity, let’s just say refer to condition as the amount of boons and buffs. If the ranger and warrior had the same buffs, the warrior would not do twice the damage of the ranger.

If you place both the ranger and warrior in solo environment, then the warrior is a much stronger self buffer and will outperform a ranger who can not buff himself as much as a warrior can. A warrior with only his own buffs > a ranger with his own buffs

Keep in mind, i’m just talking about theoretical damage. Ignoring utility,survivability, and what not.

I think right now, the ranger’s most valuable asset in tPvP is the extremely long water field, group buffs with spirits, and most notably our class has the only access to Revealed as a skill. It’s a thief’s job to turn the tides in team fights and roaming, and when I’m running an organized comp and the other team has one or more thieves, it’s my job to keep them in line and off of my team. The ranger also has some of the best mobility in the game when skills are used properly, which makes it a fantastic roamer.

I do have to say, I haven’t played ranger as long as I’ve played warrior, thief, or mesmer. I have, however, been through every class trying to find my niche and the ranger is by far the hardest class to master. With no clear goal in mind with the trait lines, it’s up to you as a player to decide what you want to do, and the utilities aren’t nearly as straightforward as other classes. I feel that this also results in a lot of very bad rangers who want to play the class like they would in a typical MMO: Ranged DPS while your pet tanks. It’s just not how you play ranger in any competitive format.

So, while rangers don’t boast the best DPS, or the best defense, the best mobility, the best team support or the best healing, the class offers a bit of everything, and mastering it all takes time and dedication. You’ve got to want to play it well, otherwise you’ll fall into the trap that gives the class a bad name.

having just read this topic I think we need to be clear on the fact that ranger is one of the hardest classes to play well.

In TPvP for example I play a trap ranger home point defender. I use sword/dagger and axe/torch and can quite easily beat most classes 1v1. Some take a bit more like mesmers or warriors and some can even be 1v2’d (granted if they are not great at their class). But it isn’t as simple as other classes, our ability to win fights rests largely on our correct use of skills, we have 2 energy based evades, and 3 evade skills on the sword/dagger weapon set. If you want to win a fight you have to use these properly, you have to avoid the big hitting moves, and if you do, the fight is yours.

With trap ranger we win by dropping our traps and surviving, even in carrion gear I can be more bunky than other classes built to be bunkers. But doing this reliably in every 1v1 fight is hard, and we all mess up sometimes.

The PvE discussion here is largely talking about greatswords and longbows where in fact sword is our greatest DPS weapon and most of the people in my guild agrees that ranger has one of the best damage outputs in the game. combine this with unique party buffs like spotter and frost spirit and you bring great things to a party.

Lets look at a perfect group setup, most groups run with the standard of a guardian and then a warrior or elementalist for the perma 25 might stacks. Now we have 3 free party slots to fill and in order to get the ebst from your group you want to pick slots that work well with your party. As mentioned above the ranger provides buffs no other class can while also providing one of the highest damage outputs in the game, arguably a ranger would be a must have in every group.

But all of these arguments become invalid if you are not using the correct setups and can’t play them properly. I’m sure most of you have been in groups with bearbow rangers who stand at the back and provide nothing to the group. But this isn’t every ranger out there (sadly more than I’d care to admit) and in fact most the rangers I see are very good at playing their class.

In summary, rangers provide a lot to this game, but only if done right. It’s just very difficult to be good at ranger compared to other classes, and this gives us a bad name. If you really think rangers are bad then play something else, this game works best with a mix of players. But if you want the challenge then ranger can be very rewarding.

RoyalPredator.9163:

Just tell me, what kind of additional risk do I take with a tank warrior, compared to a ranger which gets no buffs, out of sight of mates and is a primary target of easyloot?
If you help me understand this, or just have an another angle of view on this, would help me to understand AN’s philosophy on this.

(Btw, just came to my mind; Range+ weapons aka snipers in fps games are 1 hit killers, why, is there no risk? The snipers are always alone and always at same spots. Not to compare GW2 to an FPS but the basic “ways to figh” are the ~same.)

The Anet logic is “your in Melee thus vulnerable to both Melee damage and ranged damage” which is/was good logic. And then you look at the meta warrior build which has damage AND tankyness and there’s just literally no downside other than maybe being kited by a ranged build that gives up a lot of damage potential in order to bypass the warriors immense amount of soft CC removal and hard CC immunity

Warrior, say hello to perma poison. I win.

urdriel.8496:

Durzlla.6295:

Archon.6480:

Fluffball.8307:

Archon.6480:

No, you will loose this fight. Even with berserker, scholars, and damage runes. Decent warrior will squash you every time. You need to get in his face and beat the snot out of him. But with berserker he with clobber you in seconds with swords. You’ll need a better build for this kind of warrior in tpvp, spvp or WvW.

What the hell are you talking about? I didn’t mention any builds or strategies or anything of the sort. A warrior using only a LB is not using warrior to a high potential. Do you disagree with that?

I am talking about ranger besting warrior in PvP with LB. Go to the PvP forum or warrior forum and post that rubbish. Anyone who plays PvP a little knows that is not true.

Maybe if you’re a bad ranger… If you’re running LB + GS you should be able to handle warriors, it won’t be an EASY fight, but it’s doable, even against good warriors. It’s even easier if you’re using RaO or have a signet build and have access to SotW or other stability.

And if you can’t keep the warrior off you long enough to get a few of your max range shots… you’re a bad ranger and need to learn how to use your skills.

If you are figthing against a good warrior he will never let you kite……

Yeah, there are many PvP builds that are strong against a warrior, I just don’t find those to be LB builds. Warrior has too many gap closers and most will out heal the damage LB can place on them. Prysin eluded to poison, which is very effective, especially with a constant dosage of conditions. Eventually warriors run out of cleanses and melt.