Guild Wars 2

Hi all!
Basically i am a returning palyer after half year of pause. And i decided to play a whole new class from start. But not sure whitch. I have been roaming forums like a week ago now, did try all classes (back in the days alredy) and i did try them again. Both in pvp and pve. Mostly up till like 20-30. and i must admit, i think i have a problem with each class, atleast a slight bit. But i still think Warrior-Ranger are the things most close to me.

Preferably because, they have weapons, that can look cool. And can go range.
I would pick warrior because rifles look realyl kitten. The problem with that is, that warrior is not really a detailed class for ranged combat. While Ranger does have 2 bows and has a lot of (does it?) specialization for ranged play , it does not have a gun. (trough there are many bows that also look nice).

On armor, i would vote for Heavy trough, they look ages better.

Anyhow, after roaming some with warrior i felt utterly bored after like lv 34. Pve seems brainless dmg spam. Swing and swing and win. In Dungeons i constantly meet tonns of other warriors, and that does feel really bad
As ranger i felt the same, but even worse, it felt weak. I could not push myself above 22, because i was bored of : Shoot pet tank,shoot shoot move on. At best had to kite some (whitch i detest, since i palyed hunter in wow for years).

So i am not sure ranged has any builds at all? Propably other build for pvp then pve, but in the end you still simply spam dmg skill with bow proly?
I keep hearing, pet needs micro a lot, pulling in and out constantly at bosses. Besides that they are weakn anyhow.
So what do rangers really do?

Micro pets? Boring range dd? Or ? Btw are there many rangers out there?

Us rangers are a small group. Many have left our ranks as of late.

As for what we do? Mix ranged and melee combat and micro our pet to keep it alive. You can get some decent damage that way.

Nekroseth.5186:

Shoot pet tank,shoot shoot move on. At best had to kite some (whitch i detest, since i palyed hunter in wow for years).

You detest kiting? Delete your ranger and roll guardian..

No, seriously, we are a medium armor class, so there is no way that we can take the same amount of hits than a heavy armor class. However, we are superior ranged (recent Longbow buff), so that’s the play style lots of rangers will take on: Use a ranged weapon as main and for the second set they would a) take another ranged, b) take some heavy melee or c) get some supportive setup.

I mainly use my ranger to roam in WvW, on a sidenote..

I highly recommend having a range option and a melee option. And you will need to kite a lot. It comes with the name ‘ranger’.

Your problem is primarily that you are playing low-level ranger, and trying to compare it to low-level warrior. Ranger starts out kind of weak because of lack of good traits to supplement their damage, while warrior tends to look very strong because a lot of their good traits can be gotten early on. A level 80 ranger, on the other hand, is a total powerhouse beast, while warriors end up being a sort of support/DPS hybrid. Both are good, but IMO rangers are better.

At this point in the meta rangers are an essential support class. Spotter is a very good group buff, as well as the traited Frost Spirit. Sword is top-notch DPS, if a bit risky to use (when coupled with the pet, ranger has some of the best DPS in the game) while greatsword remains a decent secondary option for maintaining respectable DPS if sword is getting you killed. If you like ranged weapons, on the other hand, it’s a bit ironic that ranger ranged options kinda suck.

Again, this is organized play with competent teammates who know their class. A class is pretty much exactly as good as you play it, and unfortunately a lot of rangers don’t play them well. I see more shortbow/bear rangers than I can count, which is very nearly the absolutely worst build you can run on a ranger in PvE.

SB/GS (or LB/GS when the extra range is required) and using canines and/or drakes is quite potent. Felines, if you can keep them alive, are higher damage, but much squishier.

Actually, Guanglai, its not nearly as you say it . Both rangers and warriors are amazing in open world PvE , however in WvW and Dungeons warrior is vastly superior but very bad in SPvP.
Ranger, while playable , is fairly inefficient in dungeons and in zerg WvW warfare, but quite reliable in PvP or WvW roaming .

Guanglai Kangyi you might be right. Trough i might say, you are dooing the same things in combat even with traits and high lv, but you have content to forget it, or use it. Atleast, thats how i would think the thout.

At any rate, it did gave me hope, that i might make a good deal rolling and strugling trough early game.
But there is 1 thing that couth my eyes : " If you like ranged weapons, on the other hand, it’s a bit ironic that ranger ranged options kinda suck."

Interesting, because actually i wanted to roll a ranger for its tipical rpg indepth feeling, (something like in the picture, old school d&d), and for the really kitten good looking bows, exspecially since they are one of the best looking legendary besides Bolt and the rifle.
So, what is your opinion then? what are actually the best ranged options?
I still consider engineer medium and close range (trough might be good with kits-that i really hate trough)
Ele feels more like a buff bastion and jump in jump out (whitch is kind of irritating, for me atleast, if i consider it supposed to be a pure caster)
Necro is pure medium and clsoe range to me, was a totall disapointment, so what is range in gw2? (i think i will actually make a thread abaut this in general)
Oh and thx for the awnsers in advance.

If you want heaviest ranged damage, I’d say ele or engy. Ele staff and engy grenades are lots of spammable AoE damage. Engy leans more towards conditions with it’s and ele is more pure damage.

Whell, i am sory to hear that. I detest enginers kits. Grandes are hard to hit with (on really long range, fi not whats the point? Its still medium range then) , the backpack makes it terribly ugly, and i cant even get a decent skin for granade"weapon" since its a kit, not a real equip item, unlike most classes, Engineers are bound to get kittened in that part, and i dont plan to be a part of it. (its seriously a BIG part of the game! Obtaining nnew weapon and armor skins)
As for Ele? Dunno, feels fun, but in the end its more of an jack of trades. Besides, its terribly underpower right now. Not to mention again, its viable builds are not long ranged ones. (atleast as faar as i know)

Nekroseth.5186:

Whell, i am sory to hear that. I detest enginers kits. Grandes are hard to hit with (on really long range, fi not whats the point? Its still medium range then) , the backpack makes it terribly ugly, and i cant even get a decent skin for granade"weapon" since its a kit, not a real equip item, unlike most classes, Engineers are bound to get kittened in that part, and i dont plan to be a part of it. (its seriously a BIG part of the game! Obtaining nnew weapon and armor skins)
As for Ele? Dunno, feels fun, but in the end its more of an jack of trades. Besides, its terribly underpower right now. Not to mention again, its viable builds are not long ranged ones. (atleast as faar as i know)

That is a downside of the engy.

But ele underpowered? Ele is quite powerful and useful, both melee (D/D) and ranged (staff). My current ele setup can swap between the two out of combat without needing a full retrait. Hits hard with both.

What is a man ranger? A miserable little pile of secrets! But enough talk… Have at you!

SynfulChaot.3169:

Us rangers are a small group. Many have left our ranks as of late.

As for what we do? Mix ranged and melee combat and micro our pet to keep it alive. You can get some decent damage that way.

That’s about the sum of it.

We do everything to satisfaction, with a slight gain on ranged combat.

A really good ranger for max DPS does range and melee. They know when they can push forward or when they need to pull back.

CETheLucid.3964 awww… SOTN <3

And yea Rangers excel at combining both melee & range at the same time, can be hard in a zerg vs zerg clash but its possible. Never mind the fact we can bring a lot to those around us in a small group play if you learn how to use x pet at x time. Because some pets are dps, while others are cc (ones i primarily use).

We might have to learn to micro with our pets but i think that is what makes us better players because it makes us pay attention to everything in our field of view.

Seeing all these posts from people that seem to have a religious need to identify classes through “melee” or “ranged” monikers makes me want to scream. That mentality was solely created by WoW and it’s a terrible way to think of class design. D&D doesn’t do that. In 3rd edition, Fighters were just as capable as Archers as Rangers were. The difference between the classes wasn’t in what weapons they used but in their themes. That’s how it should be. Rangers are not solely Archers any more than Warriors are solely Swordsmen.

I totally agree with you Einlanzer, but the truth is…most classes are not viable as any other, the devs dreamed up.
I truly think, they take away the trinity, and destroyed combat roles, instead of making all the classes have all of them -_- whitch is a terrible idea, in my personal taste.
Its like having no point of playing a wizard in D&D, because you can simple smack ppl with a mace as same was as a warrior or thief can. This only ends up in : You are just 1 dude from the team, that does the same thing that others do. Feels like a destruction of “roles” to me, and trust me…a LOT of fun comes from taking up a role. Its an extension of your character. It gives him extreme deepness.

Nekroseth.5186:

Guanglai Kangyi you might be right. Trough i might say, you are dooing the same things in combat even with traits and high lv, but you have content to forget it, or use it. Atleast, thats how i would think the thout.

At any rate, it did gave me hope, that i might make a good deal rolling and strugling trough early game.
But there is 1 thing that couth my eyes : " If you like ranged weapons, on the other hand, it’s a bit ironic that ranger ranged options kinda suck."

Interesting, because actually i wanted to roll a ranger for its tipical rpg indepth feeling, (something like in the picture, old school d&d), and for the really kitten good looking bows, exspecially since they are one of the best looking legendary besides Bolt and the rifle.
So, what is your opinion then? what are actually the best ranged options?
I still consider engineer medium and close range (trough might be good with kits-that i really hate trough)
Ele feels more like a buff bastion and jump in jump out (whitch is kind of irritating, for me atleast, if i consider it supposed to be a pure caster)
Necro is pure medium and clsoe range to me, was a totall disapointment, so what is range in gw2? (i think i will actually make a thread abaut this in general)
Oh and thx for the awnsers in advance.

Surprisingly, the best ranged class is actually the guardian. This is because Smite is a downright OP skill (it’s basically HB except faster, ranged, and shorter CD) and absolutely wrecks anything larger than a human-sized target. Try it on an Oakheart or something, it’s not unusual to get 20k+ on a single Smite.

That is in terms of raw DPS potential in an optimum environment, though. In terms of consistently high DPS on everything, engineer with grenades is best.

The nice thing about rangers is that they are always guaranteed about 20-25% damage from their pet (pet hits about 2k/s at full buffs) so even if you are using a comparatively weak weapon like the axe, you’ll still at least outDPS the truly kitten ranged classes like the warrior.

Also, ele is actually pretty bad in general for DPS. They have good healing and support skills but outside of a few gimmick specs (LH ele), their damage is pretty bad across the board whether ranged or melee.

Yes i agree on Ele, its really decent burst, but lack of high constant damage. I am not sure on Guardian.
Interesting, that you mention Egnineer as highest contant dmg dealer….exspecially with granades, since i can barely hit anything with them from max range, thy to the slow fly speed. Actually sounds dissapointing, that the best dmg output is a kit, from a medum-close range class.
Anyhow an interesting standpoint.

If you’re still leveling you will find ranger to be greatly different in dungeons and wvw compared to pve. If you don’t like kiting I suggest you get all condition damage gear, equip sword/torch, axe/dagger and get off hand mastery as early as you can. I found it great fun to melt mobs with that setup. If you don’t like that, seeing that ranger is not that great at range maybe ranger is really not for you. Also try out a warrior in the mists with zerker amulet and longbow. Press all weapon skills and F1, and watch the heavy golem die in just a few seconds.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

A level 80 ranger, on the other hand, is a total powerhouse beast, while warriors end up being a sort of support/DPS hybrid.

And what game might you be playing?

nagymbear.5280:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

A level 80 ranger, on the other hand, is a total powerhouse beast, while warriors end up being a sort of support/DPS hybrid.

And what game might you be playing?

Have you actually run the numbers? Warriors can stack a lot of party-wide buffs (that also benefit themselves) so they have high solo DPS and support contribution, but since their base DPS is relatively low they actually deal less than other classes with the same buffs on them. A lot of people like to stack warriors for this reason, because they THINK they are doing a lot of damage by taking multiple warriors, but since multiple warrior buffs of the same type don’t stack, you’re actually hurting your party’s DPS by doing so, both because you are buffing a class with relatively low base DPS and because you are missing out on other potential group damage buffs.

Right now, the three major “must-have” classes for optimal damage output are the warrior, ranger, and engineer. This is because minmaxing damage requires you to have:

Banner of Discipline = ~15% damage, non-stacking
Banner of Strength = ~6% damage, non-stacking
Empower Allies = ~5% damage, non-stacking
Spotter = ~5% damage, non-stacking
Frost Spirit = +7% damage, non-stacking

A warrior has about 95% of the base damage of a guardian or ranger, so let’s make this simple and say that those classes deal 1k base damage and the warrior deals 950. Comparing the classes in a solo environment, then, the warrior has a base damage of 950 and the banner and Empower Allies buff, which is worth about +28% damage. That means he has a solo DPS of 1216. The ranger, on the other hand, has a base damage of 1k but only the Spotter and Frost Spirit buffs, so he only gets about +12%, so his damage is only 1120. However, if you have a warrior and ranger working together, both get a damage boost of about 43%, so now the ranger actually deals MORE with 1430 damage versus the warrior’s 1358.

This is where it gets tricky. A group of 5 warriors gets ONLY the banner and Empower Allies buffs, so the entire group gets only +28% damage, for about 6k damage total. Replace one warrior with a ranger and you get that extra 12% to push your damage up to almost 6.9k. Replace the other three warriors with guardians, which deal about the same base damage as rangers, for the slightly higher base damage over warriors and now you’re up to 7.2k. That’s a 20% damage advantage.

To put it simply, by looking only at solo DPS numbers, you are depriving yourself of a significant benefit to be had from having a diverse group.

Saying that ranger is a “total powerhouse beast” because of frost spirits and the spotter trait… well I’m finding it hard to choose my words carefuly. Lets just say I’m speechless.

Oh, by the way, I need to amend my comment about ranger ranged options being bad. I just ran the numbers and with the new buffs, a ranger with longbow shooting from 1000+ range actually hits harder than greatsword. In fact, it’s only about 10% less damage than the sword, which is very good in terms of ranged DPS in general.

Longbow damage wasn’t buffed, barrage got nerfed even.

What are rangers really? Well my friend, you have just asked a powerful question.

1) A ranger must know not only their enemies, but themselves as well.
2) They must stay true and righteous, taking action according to justice! -_-\/
3) They must NEVER fail a jump puzzle: rangers are sly, quick, and too intelligent to fail.
4) They must have keen eyes, not only for shooting down their foes from a great distant, but also using it to spot hidden caves and secret jump puzzles.
5) They must be humble, understanding, and patient (also supporting point (2) about standing for justice).
6) They must be skilled and talented in both range and melee weapon (Excluding magic because spirit sucks).
7) They must be great at evading attacks. Take me for instance, I have a total of 6 dodges by the time any of my foe step up to me, which give me the ability to hold off 3 people at the same time and in some occassion, killing 1 of them before I make my marvelous escape [in pvp of course]
8) They must never lose S…. that’s not an S, that means HOPE according to all Rangers.

Most importantly, they must know all of these rules (1-8) at heart. That, my friend, is what it means to be…. a Ranger… -_-\/ like a G6

The Way of the Ranger,

Simon

nagymbear.5280:

Longbow damage wasn’t buffed, barrage got nerfed even.

The auto-attack speed got substantially buffed. It’s 1 shot per second now, before it was closer to one per 1.25s. That’s a 20% buff to overall DPS, which is pretty kitten huge.

When I play my warrior in WvW I last a long time but don’t get that many bags and I’m more support then anything else, I can’t really kill anyone unless you spec as a glass tank but that doesn’t help out your zerg at all. Ranger I get a baziiiilion bags! mmmmmm

One cool thing ranger can do is stack tons of vulnerability basically for free if you go marksman (openijg strikes, alpha strike, remorseless, longbow hunters shot) that’s basically instant 20 stack vuln fwiw

Ofc wheneer I talk about benefits of ranger in dungeon I get laughed at. It’s just talking dunno why ppl are so scared of testing/talking. DnT would have laughed at mantra mesmers until the lupicus 41 s reveal the other day. The lesson is always keep an open mind. We don’t need thos high schooll BS

Gotchaz.7865:

When I play my warrior in WvW I last a long time but don’t get that many bags and I’m more support then anything else, I can’t really kill anyone unless you spec as a glass tank but that doesn’t help out your zerg at all. Ranger I get a baziiiilion bags! mmmmmm

Play necro one time in wvw you’ll drop a pound of gold and jump through windows with joy…bags…so….many….bags

But ya a lot of times in the zerg I’m running full aoe traps and longbow, even at detrimen to my build. Need dem bags…only got 7000 wvw kills. I’ll never be ulimate dominator at this pace!

A liability to your group after this patch.

Nothing more – nothing less…….

Azreell.1568:

A liability to your group after this patch.

Nothing more – nothing less…….

Actually we’re no more a liability than we were before. Our SB range got nerfed a bit, as did our pet DPS. We’re no less survivable than before and we don’t really offer any less to our teams.

Swiftness and regen without standing and stacking then wasting aoe fields is nice…

I rarely do dungeons, I mostly wvw, and when I try to find a group for dungeons there is noone to run with. But on the rare times I ran dungeons the feedback was usually, well that went smoothly. Mostly it was with people who knew the dungeon/their class well. So yeah, being a liability depends on the party as well.

The first time I ran fractals it was in a group where there was another ranger as well. There could’ve been 3 but someone changed to an alt. When 2 guys went down on the Ice elemental I kited it for a time so they can res, but then it started regenerating as it missed some cauldrons. When we were doing the one with the chained giant guy, and we reached the final boss my pizza arrived and I had to leave my ranger on its shortbow and get the pizza. I got back to see the boss die, and even so they said this was a much smoother run than they had with full ascended warriors the previous night. These are extreme examples of course, but ranger is as much of a liability as you are. Its a perception thing.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Your problem is primarily that you are playing low-level ranger, and trying to compare it to low-level warrior. Ranger starts out kind of weak because of lack of good traits to supplement their damage, while warrior tends to look very strong because a lot of their good traits can be gotten early on. A level 80 ranger, on the other hand, is a total powerhouse beast, while warriors end up being a sort of support/DPS hybrid. Both are good, but IMO rangers are better.

At this point in the meta rangers are an essential support class. Spotter is a very good group buff, as well as the traited Frost Spirit. Sword is top-notch DPS, if a bit risky to use (when coupled with the pet, ranger has some of the best DPS in the game) while greatsword remains a decent secondary option for maintaining respectable DPS if sword is getting you killed. If you like ranged weapons, on the other hand, it’s a bit ironic that ranger ranged options kinda suck.

Again, this is organized play with competent teammates who know their class. A class is pretty much exactly as good as you play it, and unfortunately a lot of rangers don’t play them well. I see more shortbow/bear rangers than I can count, which is very nearly the absolutely worst build you can run on a ranger in PvE.

Are we playing the same game? Or did I fall through a wormhole into some strange mirror universe where rangers aren’t buried 6 feet below the barrel?

A beastmaster or pet supporter.

Quarktastic.1027:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Your problem is primarily that you are playing low-level ranger, and trying to compare it to low-level warrior. Ranger starts out kind of weak because of lack of good traits to supplement their damage, while warrior tends to look very strong because a lot of their good traits can be gotten early on. A level 80 ranger, on the other hand, is a total powerhouse beast, while warriors end up being a sort of support/DPS hybrid. Both are good, but IMO rangers are better.

At this point in the meta rangers are an essential support class. Spotter is a very good group buff, as well as the traited Frost Spirit. Sword is top-notch DPS, if a bit risky to use (when coupled with the pet, ranger has some of the best DPS in the game) while greatsword remains a decent secondary option for maintaining respectable DPS if sword is getting you killed. If you like ranged weapons, on the other hand, it’s a bit ironic that ranger ranged options kinda suck.

Again, this is organized play with competent teammates who know their class. A class is pretty much exactly as good as you play it, and unfortunately a lot of rangers don’t play them well. I see more shortbow/bear rangers than I can count, which is very nearly the absolutely worst build you can run on a ranger in PvE.

Are we playing the same game? Or did I fall through a wormhole into some strange mirror universe where rangers aren’t buried 6 feet below the barrel?

It’s simply a matter of perception. There’s two reasons why rangers tend to get underrated:

1) Rangers tend to hit for a lot of small packets of damage sustained for a long period of time, rather than one big one. As such, you tend to see a load of hits for 2-3k constantly, while a warrior might hit for 20k with one HB and then deal very little while it recharges. Unfortunately, even if all those small 2k numbers end up adding up to more than the one big HB + whatever damage you get from that period of reduced damage, it still looks like the warrior is dealing more, because holy kitten 20k etc.

2a) Rangers provide very good DPS support. Unfortunately, this isn’t immediately obvious because those numbers don’t appear on your own screen. For example, Spotter is worth about 5% extra damage, but you don’t see that. Of course, if when you had Spotter up 5% of everyone’s damage appeared on YOUR screen, it’d look godkitten amazing and EVERYONE would be clamoring for a Spotter ranger. Unfortunately, it doesn’t; people think they deserve 100% of the credit for any numbers that appear on their own screen, when in fact often as much as half or more of it comes from party support contributions.

2b) The Ranger’s DPS support improves consistency, but it doesn’t really affect the top end of the number that much. That means that if you give someone Spotter and Fury (+27% crit chance) his damage output skyrockets, but he’s not going to see that, because his 4k crit still hits for 4k. Of course, he will be hitting that 4k crit twice as often, but that’s not immediately obvious.

What’s that dps support ranger you’re talking about?

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

1) Rangers tend to hit for a lot of small packets of damage sustained for a long period of time, rather than one big one. As such, you tend to see a load of hits for 2-3k constantly, while a warrior might hit for 20k with one HB and then deal very little while it recharges. Unfortunately, even if all those small 2k numbers end up adding up to more than the one big HB + whatever damage you get from that period of reduced damage, it still looks like the warrior is dealing more, because holy kitten 20k etc.

Unfortunately, that’s not how it works. While that 20k hundred blades is cooling down, the warrior is hitting 3-4k auto attacks. So he’s still dealing more damage than you.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

2b) The Ranger’s DPS support improves consistency, but it doesn’t really affect the top end of the number that much. That means that if you give someone Spotter and Fury (+27% crit chance) his damage output skyrockets, but he’s not going to see that, because his 4k crit still hits for 4k. Of course, he will be hitting that 4k crit twice as often, but that’s not immediately obvious.

Aren’t you exaggerating just a bit? If someone is running a zerker build he will not hit twice as many crits because of spotter. And other classes can provide fury as well. Spotter is a nice trait, but it doesn’t make rangers the “total powerhouse beast” you claimed.

Pretty sure HB is a dps loss unless the whole thing lands (not that it’s backloaded, it’s just that warrior axe auto does a crapton of damage)

Most bosses just stand there. When you know the mechanics of an encounter you have no problem doing a full 100b every 6½ seconds. I hit over 35k just from the last swing in an average PuG group (one other warrior) using the standard zerk build. GL attempting that on a Ranger.

I got nothing against Rangers, my first toon was one, but I noticed early on how something just didn’t add up when other professions around smacked mobs 2-3 times as fast while leveling. This feeling only escalated at 80 until I rerolled to something better (any other class).

Just from last swing? You know that’s a sum, right? Typical warrior attitude, no offense, but I’m at a loss to explain how many people think their channel isn’t a summation.

Chopps.5047:

Just from last swing? You know that’s a sum, right? Typical warrior attitude, no offense, but I’m at a loss to explain how many people think their channel isn’t a summation.

That doesn’t make him any less right. Warriors are the undisputed kings of PvE DPS. They also provide the best offensive support of any class.

Quarktastic.1027:

Chopps.5047:

Just from last swing? You know that’s a sum, right? Typical warrior attitude, no offense, but I’m at a loss to explain how many people think their channel isn’t a summation.

That doesn’t make him any less right. Warriors are the undisputed kings of PvE DPS. They also provide the best offensive support of any class.

Their offensive support is good, yes, but they aren’t the “undisputed kings” of PvE DPS. In fact, their DPS is actually pretty middle-of-the-road among the various classes.

Also:

1) Even if the warrior is hitting 3-4k auto-attack swings, he isn’t hitting as many. Greatsword swings are slow (3 per 2.5s) while axe attacks are extremely backloaded. Moreover, he doesn’t have a pet. An exclusively axe or GS warrior deals comparable (in fact, slightly less) damage than a sword ranger, while a warrior using the weapon swap rotation deals very slightly more (about 5-10% more tops). That’s assuming you can Whirlwind against a wall and get the HB channel uninterrupted 100% of the time. Just HB by itself makes almost no difference at all, it’s only about 2-3% extra damage overall at best, if even that.

2) Warrior buffs don’t stack. Obviously, if you have 4 non-warrior/rangers in your group and need to pick between one or the other, pick the warrior, he can bring three banners and Empower Allies and bring a flat 28% DPS boost to the party, as opposed to the ranger’s extra 5-12% depending on Frost Spirit’s uptime. That said, if you already have a warrior, why bring another? The second warrior doesn’t bring anything the first one didn’t already. If adding another warrior brings no extra DPS bonuses and adding a ranger does, and everything else is otherwise equal (see #2 above), then that’s really not rocket science to figure out which is better. Of course, the same applies in reverse; don’t take multiple rangers in exclusion of a warrior.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

1) Even if the warrior is hitting 3-4k auto-attack swings, he isn’t hitting as many. Greatsword swings are slow (3 per 2.5s) while axe attacks are extremely backloaded. Moreover, he doesn’t have a pet. An exclusively axe or GS warrior deals comparable (in fact, slightly less) damage than a sword ranger, while a warrior using the weapon swap rotation deals very slightly more (about 5-10% more tops). That’s assuming you can Whirlwind against a wall and get the HB channel uninterrupted 100% of the time. Just HB by itself makes almost no difference at all, it’s only about 2-3% extra damage overall at best, if even that.

I’m sorry but this is just plain false. A equivalently specced melee warrior will far out-DPS a melee ranger, pet included, in a straight on fight where all hits land. And if you’re trying to make the point that not all warrior hits will land? Guess what. Neither will ours and definitely neither will our pet’s.

Please do us all a favour and go test out a warrior before you try to tell us that we do more damage than one again. Thanks.

I wish the spirits didn’t have internal cooldowns on their effects…
And that they weren’t so squishy.
And that they would follow you, regardless of trait selection.
And that the storm spirit had a better passive.

Rangers are fun, here’s a short video of a BM ranger I like to play.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

1) Even if the warrior is hitting 3-4k auto-attack swings, he isn’t hitting as many. Greatsword swings are slow (3 per 2.5s) while axe attacks are extremely backloaded. Moreover, he doesn’t have a pet. An exclusively axe or GS warrior deals comparable (in fact, slightly less) damage than a sword ranger, while a warrior using the weapon swap rotation deals very slightly more (about 5-10% more tops). That’s assuming you can Whirlwind against a wall and get the HB channel uninterrupted 100% of the time. Just HB by itself makes almost no difference at all, it’s only about 2-3% extra damage overall at best, if even that.

I’m sorry but this is just plain false. A equivalently specced melee warrior will far out-DPS a melee ranger, pet included, in a straight on fight where all hits land. And if you’re trying to make the point that not all warrior hits will land? Guess what. Neither will ours and definitely neither will our pet’s.

Please do us all a favour and go test out a warrior before you try to tell us that we do more damage than one again. Thanks.

In a straight DPS race, yes, it is virtually identical. Please use the total number over time accounting for skill recharges, not the biggest number you see at any given time. DPS stands for “damage per second”, not “biggest number I can make appear on my screen”.

I understand that ranger players in this game have some sort of martyr complex where they want to convince themselves that it is the class, rather than themselves, that is weak, but the game is actually quite well balanced, rangers included.

Honestly, who do you think is more likely to have examined the game’s class balance in-depth, the game’s own developers or a bunch of casual players who can’t even do math?

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

1) Even if the warrior is hitting 3-4k auto-attack swings, he isn’t hitting as many. Greatsword swings are slow (3 per 2.5s) while axe attacks are extremely backloaded. Moreover, he doesn’t have a pet. An exclusively axe or GS warrior deals comparable (in fact, slightly less) damage than a sword ranger, while a warrior using the weapon swap rotation deals very slightly more (about 5-10% more tops). That’s assuming you can Whirlwind against a wall and get the HB channel uninterrupted 100% of the time. Just HB by itself makes almost no difference at all, it’s only about 2-3% extra damage overall at best, if even that.

I’m sorry but this is just plain false. A equivalently specced melee warrior will far out-DPS a melee ranger, pet included, in a straight on fight where all hits land. And if you’re trying to make the point that not all warrior hits will land? Guess what. Neither will ours and definitely neither will our pet’s.

Please do us all a favour and go test out a warrior before you try to tell us that we do more damage than one again. Thanks.

In a straight DPS race, yes, it is virtually identical. Please use the total number over time accounting for skill recharges, not the biggest number you see at any given time. DPS stands for “damage per second”, not “biggest number I can make appear on my screen”.

I understand that ranger players in this game have some sort of martyr complex where they want to convince themselves that it is the class, rather than themselves, that is weak, but the game is actually quite well balanced, rangers included.

Honestly, who do you think is more likely to have examined the game’s class balance in-depth, the game’s own developers or a bunch of casual players who can’t even do math?

Gotta side with this, ranger attacks are all a lot faster than warrior ones, we also have a pet dealing damage…. and we tend to have shorter CDs

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

SynfulChaot.3169:

I’m sorry but this is just plain false. A equivalently specced melee warrior will far out-DPS a melee ranger, pet included, in a straight on fight where all hits land. And if you’re trying to make the point that not all warrior hits will land? Guess what. Neither will ours and definitely neither will our pet’s.

Please do us all a favour and go test out a warrior before you try to tell us that we do more damage than one again. Thanks.

In a straight DPS race, yes, it is virtually identical. Please use the total number over time accounting for skill recharges, not the biggest number you see at any given time. DPS stands for “damage per second”, not “biggest number I can make appear on my screen”.

I understand that ranger players in this game have some sort of martyr complex where they want to convince themselves that it is the class, rather than themselves, that is weak, but the game is actually quite well balanced, rangers included.

Honestly, who do you think is more likely to have examined the game’s class balance in-depth, the game’s own developers or a bunch of casual players who can’t even do math?

Sorry, Guanglai. I won’t mince words. You’re wrong here. Warrior DPS is far greater than ranger DPS. If that were not so than rangers would be much, much higher in the meta.

It’s not that rangers have a martyr complex. It’s that we have played the class and have realized our strengths and weaknesses. We know we are weaker than the others and have worked together as a community to try to find out how to maximize what we can still do.

Please stop assuming that we are all incapable of playing the game right or analyzing the data presented to us. Look at it this way. What is more likely? That we, as an entire community, are all incapable and don’t know what we’re all talking about? Or that you are the one that does not? And by community I mean developers as well. Even the main balance dev agrees, and has agreed for months that the ranger is the most in need of work of all classes.

We’re not all casuals. You are not a god. Rangers are weaker than warriors. Enough said.

Durzlla.6295:

Gotta side with this, ranger attacks are all a lot faster than warrior ones, we also have a pet dealing damage…. and we tend to have shorter CDs

Attacking faster but far weaker is not enough. Just FYI.

Durzlla.6295:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

1) Even if the warrior is hitting 3-4k auto-attack swings, he isn’t hitting as many. Greatsword swings are slow (3 per 2.5s) while axe attacks are extremely backloaded. Moreover, he doesn’t have a pet. An exclusively axe or GS warrior deals comparable (in fact, slightly less) damage than a sword ranger, while a warrior using the weapon swap rotation deals very slightly more (about 5-10% more tops). That’s assuming you can Whirlwind against a wall and get the HB channel uninterrupted 100% of the time. Just HB by itself makes almost no difference at all, it’s only about 2-3% extra damage overall at best, if even that.

I’m sorry but this is just plain false. A equivalently specced melee warrior will far out-DPS a melee ranger, pet included, in a straight on fight where all hits land. And if you’re trying to make the point that not all warrior hits will land? Guess what. Neither will ours and definitely neither will our pet’s.

Please do us all a favour and go test out a warrior before you try to tell us that we do more damage than one again. Thanks.

In a straight DPS race, yes, it is virtually identical. Please use the total number over time accounting for skill recharges, not the biggest number you see at any given time. DPS stands for “damage per second”, not “biggest number I can make appear on my screen”.

I understand that ranger players in this game have some sort of martyr complex where they want to convince themselves that it is the class, rather than themselves, that is weak, but the game is actually quite well balanced, rangers included.

Honestly, who do you think is more likely to have examined the game’s class balance in-depth, the game’s own developers or a bunch of casual players who can’t even do math?

Gotta side with this, ranger attacks are all a lot faster than warrior ones, we also have a pet dealing damage…. and we tend to have shorter CDs

The pet sometimes deals damage. A lot of the time it’s dead or called back (assuming you are ranged and there is somewhere to call it back to). Shorter CDs on what? The highest DPS skill on our highest DPS weapon is the auto-attack for the main hand sword, same for the shortbow and the longbow (not that their DPS compares to warrior DPS). The only weapon which has a DPS skill that’s not an auto attack is the greatsword’s maul and the offhand axe’s pull skill.

The meta has been established. Rangers are not in it. Let’s use Ockham’s razor. Are rangers not in the meta because all the top tier players of the meta are ignoring the most powerful class in the game and people complaining about the ranger are all just bad at their class, or is there an actual problem with the ranger and they aren’t on the same footing as the meta classes?

You and Guanglai are more than welcome to form speed clear groups using rangers to demonstrate that everyone is doing it wrong.

Personally I view rangers as bow users in a game which decided ranged weapon users are second/third class citizens, their most powerful melee weapon is a double edged main hand sword which has loss of character control a main function of its auto attack, and babysitters of the pet mechanic. In dungeons, I feel like a babysitter. Always focused on that health bar, that pet’s location, the pet swap cooldown. I don’t feel like my pet is a powerful component of my build, but rather a passive mechanic which has limited ways to interact with it and it comes at a personal DPS opportunity cost. What are the advantages of having a pet in dungeons these days? How to they outweigh the costs? These questions are becoming further imbalanced.

Back to the OP. If you are on either warrior or ranger, I can’t in good faith say the ranger is your best choice (unless you want to sPvP – you don’t need to level a class to do that though). Warriors are one of the top three classes in the PvE game. They are in almost every dungeon meta group because of their DPS, powerful buffs and ease of use. Rangers are commonly thought of, by both high end and general players, as the worst dungeon class in the game (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Ranger-DPS-in-Dungeons/first and https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/I-present-Vote-for-the-worst-Results/first). Regardless of bias or anything else, as the situation currently stands, if you like both the ranger and the warrior, it is far less likely that you will regret choosing a warrior. They are the kings of PvE and are constantly desired in groups. Rangers are fighting an increasingly steep slope to get into dungeon groups and keep up with the rest of the pack.

TLDR; choose warrior.