Guild Wars 2

EDIT: This was originally in the PvP forums, where it made a lot more sense. Rangers already have been through this. The post was aimed at PvP team comps as a whole 5 man team, not rangers. This really shouldn’t have been moved.

First: I can’t immediately find team comps, but we all know the drill. Out of the past 2 years worth of WTS, we’re looking at an average of 0% of the players running ranger, and, let’s guess 20% each running warrior, guard, engi, thief or ele. That’s quite clearly off a bit, but it is close enough.

Next: Let’s assume you’re now a professional PvPer putting together a team to take down the Abjured or any other very high level team. Don’t focus on a specific profession counter, this is a general team. This is not about PUG stomping, because “my team uses a ranger and we do just fine.”

Finally: Let’s ignore the WHaO change. Not only is it getting nerfed, it also would not have put a ranger in any of the next WTS teams. (“Rangers now have access to self buffs, let’s get one on our team.”) The LB and signet buffs did not accomplish the goal. One ranger tried back in march, but the team declared the ranger experiment a failure and disbanded.

What is your personal fix? Does the community throw a temper tantrum if your plans succeeds in getting a ranger on to a top team?

I hope that this gets a dev response, because they owe their ranger player base apologies, fixes, and open discussion.

You have a point. However, whenever I see a question like this I wonder how many players are top tier pvpers and how many are “PUG stomping”. What should you really balance around the minority who can adapt easily or the majority who can not?

TheGuy.3568:

You have a point. However, whenever I see a question like this I wonder how many players are top tier pvpers and how many are “PUG stomping”. What should you really balance around the minority who can adapt easily or the majority who can not?

The balance is off no matter what level. If you’re mediocre at ranger, you aren’t as good a use of a party slot as a mediocre ele or even a slightly subpar warrior.

Also the point was not to whine that ranger is awful, I really want to know what people and the devs want from ranger.

Controllable pets, delete the evade spam, make the pets reliable and stronger but take skill. I don’t think the game engine can handle anything crazy though. Or if it CAN handle crazy stuff, then ANET doesn’t even wanna make anything cool, they just want to dumb systems down.

Too bad ANET can’t do anything to make Ranger take real skill, it’s been braindead easy since launch it’s not even funny. Spirit Ranger, Beast Master, etc Ranger just can’t be respected.

It is the Xin Zhao (LoL reference) of GW2, he has to get nerfed if he becomes op because he’s so easy to play.

I’m basically just waiting till HoT at this point to healbot people on my druid. cant wait to level up a rev. unless of course Roy hotfixes it into uselessness 24 hours after release.

Step 1: You take a break for a couple of days.
Step 2: You create a druid on Friday
Step 3: You enjoy it this weekend
Step 4: You cry on Monday when they announce it will get nerfed.

Such is the life of a ranger.

WTS CLASSES:
Elementalist: 13
Thief: 10
Engineer: 9
Warrior: 8
Guardian: 6
Necromancer: 4
Mesmer: 3
Ranger: 1

Some of these numbers are juuust slightly off because I don’t want to go through all the old vods, but this is based on: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2_World_Tournament_Series and what I remember from the people who “multi-classed”. For those I didn’t list, odds are they were in the top 5 classes.

What is it that the ranger community want from the devs to make ranger viable, exactly?

ReaperJr.5967:

What is it that the ranger community want from the devs to make ranger viable, exactly?

Better pet control
Better pet pathing
Access to boon stripping
Access to a teleport

Puck.9612:

ReaperJr.5967:

What is it that the ranger community want from the devs to make ranger viable, exactly?

Better pet control
Better pet pathing
Access to boon stripping
Access to a teleport

Ai overhaul. Agreed.
Pathing changes. Agreed.
Access to boon stripping..? Specify?
Access to teleport is questionable too.

ReaperJr.5967:

What is it that the ranger community want from the devs to make ranger viable, exactly?

Better Pet AI – Combat
Better Pet AI – Pathing
Better Pet Controls
Redundancy in skills removed (Sharpening Stones is also a trait and is worse than a trap with a longer CD and less damage, “Protect Me!” is signet of stone but worse)
Weapon skill buffs (Animations are very predictable, and some weapons are so unusable)

These are the main things though there is a lot of smaller stuff this is what would put us on the right path.

ReaperJr.5967:

Puck.9612:

ReaperJr.5967:

What is it that the ranger community want from the devs to make ranger viable, exactly?

Better pet control
Better pet pathing
Access to boon stripping
Access to a teleport

Ai overhaul. Agreed.
Pathing changes. Agreed.
Access to boon stripping..? Specify?
Access to teleport is questionable too.

What do you mean specify? The ability to strip boons from other players, what is hard to understand about that?
And a teleport is needed. Rangers compete for a role with thieves and mesmers who are both able to strip boons from might/protection stacking brawler specs, and who can both teleport, which gives them a ridiculously huge advantage when it comes to rotating.

Thieves and mesmers would still have the advantage of bringing a higher burst and being able to hop into stealth to disengage. And unless they really fixed pets, rangers would still have the disadvantage of losing a big chunk of their cc and dps to pets that don’t know how to hop off a ledge or over a small fence. But this would at least give rangers a chance at being competitive.

a lot of ranger weapons need to be reworked. most of them don’t bring any utility to a fight, and also have extremely low dmg multipliers. even running around with 25 stacks of might and quickness yesterday I felt kitten unless I was on LB/GS

warhorn, axes, sword, shortbow need some serious buffs. then we can talk about the rest. I don’t mind the pets so much, the design of the new ones is excellent. which doesn’t excuse the core pets from getting left in the dust.

Puck.9612:

ReaperJr.5967:

Puck.9612:

ReaperJr.5967:

What is it that the ranger community want from the devs to make ranger viable, exactly?

Better pet control
Better pet pathing
Access to boon stripping
Access to a teleport

Ai overhaul. Agreed.
Pathing changes. Agreed.
Access to boon stripping..? Specify?
Access to teleport is questionable too.

What do you mean specify? The ability to strip boons from other players, what is hard to understand about that?
And a teleport is needed. Rangers compete for a role with thieves and mesmers who are both able to strip boons from might/protection stacking brawler specs, and who can both teleport, which gives them a ridiculously huge advantage when it comes to rotating.

Thieves and mesmers would still have the advantage of bringing a higher burst and being able to hop into stealth to disengage. And unless they really fixed pets, rangers would still have the disadvantage of losing a big chunk of their cc and dps to pets that don’t know how to hop off a ledge or over a small fence. But this would at least give rangers a chance at being competitive.

Specify as in how would you want it implemented? It’s easy to say, I want this, I want that, but give no constructive ways to implement it.

As for teleports, I think it gives just a little too much of an advantage to rangers given their bursting range. They’re mobile enough as it is.

mistsim.2748:

a lot of ranger weapons need to be reworked. most of them don’t bring any utility to a fight, and also have extremely low dmg multipliers. even running around with 25 stacks of might and quickness yesterday I felt kitten unless I was on LB/GS

warhorn, axes, sword, shortbow need some serious buffs. then we can talk about the rest. I don’t mind the pets so much, the design of the new ones is excellent. which doesn’t excuse the core pets from getting left in the dust.

One of the biggest reasons for this is they balance ranger with the pet. Pets are useless in pvp outside of for their F2 buttons. Something like 30% of the dps is locked up in the pet which misses upwards of 70% of the time.

Fluffball.8307:

First: I can’t immediately find team comps, but we all know the drill. Out of the past 2 years worth of WTS, we’re looking at an average of 0% of the players running ranger, and, let’s guess 20% each running warrior, guard, engi, thief or ele. That’s quite clearly off a bit, but it is close enough.

Next: Let’s assume you’re now a professional PvPer putting together a team to take down the Abjured or any other very high level team. Don’t focus on a specific profession counter, this is a general team. This is not about PUG stomping, because “my team uses a ranger and we do just fine.”

Finally: Let’s ignore the WHaO change. Not only is it getting nerfed, it also would not have put a ranger in any of the next WTS teams. (“Rangers now have access to self buffs, let’s get one on our team.”) The LB and signet buffs did not accomplish the goal. One ranger tried back in march, but the team declared the ranger experiment a failure and disbanded.

What is your personal fix? Does the community throw a temper tantrum if your plans succeeds in getting a ranger on to a top team?

Really do feel you pain, but like so many post to this section of the forms people seem in denial about the giant meta reset coming with HoT.

ReaperJr.5967:

Puck.9612:

ReaperJr.5967:

Puck.9612:

ReaperJr.5967:

What is it that the ranger community want from the devs to make ranger viable, exactly?

Better pet control
Better pet pathing
Access to boon stripping
Access to a teleport

Ai overhaul. Agreed.
Pathing changes. Agreed.
Access to boon stripping..? Specify?
Access to teleport is questionable too.

What do you mean specify? The ability to strip boons from other players, what is hard to understand about that?
And a teleport is needed. Rangers compete for a role with thieves and mesmers who are both able to strip boons from might/protection stacking brawler specs, and who can both teleport, which gives them a ridiculously huge advantage when it comes to rotating.

Thieves and mesmers would still have the advantage of bringing a higher burst and being able to hop into stealth to disengage. And unless they really fixed pets, rangers would still have the disadvantage of losing a big chunk of their cc and dps to pets that don’t know how to hop off a ledge or over a small fence. But this would at least give rangers a chance at being competitive.

Specify as in how would you want it implemented? It’s easy to say, I want this, I want that, but give no constructive ways to implement it.

As for teleports, I think it gives just a little too much of an advantage to rangers given their bursting range. They’re mobile enough as it is.

Considering the ridiculous amount of blocks and reflects that keep getting added to the game our “bursting range” is no longer worth the mediocre damage ranger does. Rangers are mobile enough in WvW, they are completely outclassed in PvP on every map except foefire. A good way to impliment this would be to make the active on sig of the hunt a targeted teleport. The cooldown is perfect and if a ranger uses it he loses his speed buff.

As for boon stripping, they could easily make opening strike remove a couple boons on hit. Or make invigorating bond steal an enemies boons and transfer them to you. Hell that even fits the skill thematically.

Definitely better pet pathing and responsiveness.

i’m not sure there’s much they could do with pet ai other than make them faster, presumably they already use the same ai as the npcs.

A teleport type skill with a blast finisher on it as well as a pet with smoke field, that would be a great Maul setup, since its so easily telegraphed. More pets in general, ones with CC then some more immobilise when we daze or interrupt, for MoC synergy. Then we need some more skills, straight up, like support skills that help a groups sustain, but we don’t want those on a weapon skill, I want to be able to run duel melee still. Very much need some on-demand condition removal, tied to skills like Wilderness Knowledge, but I’m not sure what ones. More condition resilience basically and more sustain in general. Since everyone else is getting projectile hate, we may as well get some also. More mobility that is not tied to swiftness, we have a lot of access to it, but certain builds do not and they would be great with some increased passive movement speed.

’Bout all I can think of right now.

Shoe.5821:

i’m not sure there’s much they could do with pet ai other than make them faster, presumably they already use the same ai as the npcs.

They just need to increase pet base movement speed by 20%, so they are faster than a player when neither have boosts. Then increase the range on all AA’s to 250. Then they would be fine.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

A teleport type skill with a blast finisher on it as well as a pet with smoke field, that would be a great Maul setup, since its so easily telegraphed. More pets in general, ones with CC then some more immobilise when we daze or interrupt, for MoC synergy. Then we need some more skills, straight up, like support skills that help a groups sustain, but we don’t want those on a weapon skill, I want to be able to run duel melee still. Very much need some on-demand condition removal, tied to skills like Wilderness Knowledge, but I’m not sure what ones. More condition resilience basically and more sustain in general. Since everyone else is getting projectile hate, we may as well get some also. More mobility that is not tied to swiftness, we have a lot of access to it, but certain builds do not and they would be great with some increased passive movement speed.

’Bout all I can think of right now.

We have a winner!

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Shoe.5821:

i’m not sure there’s much they could do with pet ai other than make them faster, presumably they already use the same ai as the npcs.

They just need to increase pet base movement speed by 20%, so they are faster than a player when neither have boosts. Then increase the range on all AA’s to 250. Then they would be fine.

I’d like to say that I can’t see why improving overall Pet AI would be that bad even if they share it with normal mobs. People have been asking for more ’’challenging’’ PvE mobs for a long time.

at this point I don’t think pet AI is going to see any significant changes or improvements due to the sheer amount of work it would take and the fact that they have an expansion ready to drop along with living world updates, raids, guild stuff etc to monitor and continue balancing. how about suggesting simple things that would improve pets like increase all melee pet hit ranges to 300 like birds, or flat increase all melee pet hit ranges to 450-600 like a player.

a flat increase to pet stats would go a long way as well. like an additional flat 150 stat points and another additional 150 if specced into BM. pets are still far too squishy and it’s not right that a significant portion of only our dps can just die.

if spirits are going to remain immobile they should be invulnerable and on a similar timer to warrior banners. the passive skills need a significant buff to make them even slightly relevent in the current meta game for pvp or pve. the actives are garbage, plus the buff range and active ability range are different so if a spirit is placed out of harms way to stay alive you lose any usefulness you could get from the activated ability.

overall our utilities are poor excluding survival utilities.

Druid was a welcome change in my opinion. it gives us a new role to play and we don’t know yet how relevent healing is even going to be in the coming content. Druid needs a dps increase even at the expense of some healing. every class has access to personal heals or regeneration. revenant will have quite a bit of healing as well. The amount of healing on Druid will likely be overkill but damage is needed not just to see pretty numbers on screen but to get credit for completing ANY of the older content. it’s needed in all of the older dungeons where healing won’t be needed at all. it will also be needed in any world content that has been released or will be in the future. that is the one area i think druid is lacking.

Thank you OP for your attempt to bring in others opinions (PvP crowd) on how to fix the Ranger equation.

Even if it was short lived and moved here.

ReaperJr.5967:

Puck.9612:

ReaperJr.5967:

Puck.9612:

ReaperJr.5967:

What is it that the ranger community want from the devs to make ranger viable, exactly?

Better pet control
Better pet pathing
Access to boon stripping
Access to a teleport

Ai overhaul. Agreed.
Pathing changes. Agreed.
Access to boon stripping..? Specify?
Access to teleport is questionable too.

What do you mean specify? The ability to strip boons from other players, what is hard to understand about that?
And a teleport is needed. Rangers compete for a role with thieves and mesmers who are both able to strip boons from might/protection stacking brawler specs, and who can both teleport, which gives them a ridiculously huge advantage when it comes to rotating.

Thieves and mesmers would still have the advantage of bringing a higher burst and being able to hop into stealth to disengage. And unless they really fixed pets, rangers would still have the disadvantage of losing a big chunk of their cc and dps to pets that don’t know how to hop off a ledge or over a small fence. But this would at least give rangers a chance at being competitive.

Specify as in how would you want it implemented? It’s easy to say, I want this, I want that, but give no constructive ways to implement it.

As for teleports, I think it gives just a little too much of an advantage to rangers given their bursting range. They’re mobile enough as it is.

I disagree with this point completely. When the undoubted king of mobility and bursting (thief) can gap close incredibly quickly, especially with steal for instance for 1200 range shadowsteps, rangers are not “mobile enough as it is”.

As to how to implement it, it would be very easy to do so, I proposed in another thread to add a second skill chain to Sic Em that lets the ranger teleport to the pet when activated. One cannot easily escape certain classes that dominate the meta so I don’t see why one should be able to easily escape Ranger.

Half damage of all skills. Make rangers useless against every class. Then add minor trait to marksmanship. Rangers do 1200% damage to elementalist. Maybe it wouldn’t make us useful but I would feel vindicated to crush the class that so long dominated the meta and I personally blame for WHaO nerf even though they really had nothing to do with it.

It depends what kind of role we want to fill

as a baseline thing, pets need to be able to hit moving targets. I don’t think a lot of people realize just how much of a buff that would be.

If we wanted to fill a bunker role, give shouts useful utility, and more team buffs

If we wanted to be a decap/dps role, give us boonstripping and teleports (or remove the teleport spots on places like khylo. we already have decent mobility, but teleports will always trump any mobility when spots like that exist)

that would be the basic changes that would help us break into the esports meta. other things I would do would be to add more synergy to our traits, and define what our class is supposed to be doing right now (IMO i’d rather have one good role, rather than have 3-4 “ok” roles, like we currently do)

edit: and as a side note, we need to have a better way to keep our pets alive in teamfights.

Perhaps it would be better to ask them to bring the other professions down instead of asking for ranger to be brought up.

Bran.7425:

Perhaps it would be better to ask them to bring the other professions down instead of asking for ranger to be brought up.

lol they don’t like touching their favorites.

Let me start by staying I don’t think Anet hates rangers.

They have put more work into the ranger than any other class. Let consider all the work that went into making skill for each of the pet.
Celestial avatar is a cool looking transformation skill.

Ranger new elite specialization is bringing 10 new weapon skill and 2 new heal skill 8 new utility skills and 2 new elite skill plus 5 new pet skill.

Then there is the luna wolf that you can summon if 3 ranger use their war horns at the same time. The Icon for MDG is the top part of Gw2 dragon logo. Maybe the are so kitten the ranger because deep down its the favor and in try not to play favorites the go to the extreme ( we can only hope). It doesn’t make sense that they put so much work in to this class for it to be where it in now.

I mean Healing elite I don’t know the scaling but Heal as one has more healing then the druid heal when traited with resounding timber.

With so many working part I just think anet has lost focus when it comes to the ranger. It’s not all bad.

With the introduction of the new pets the smokescale and the bristleback pet survivability should go up. More pet control would be affected more by skill lag and would still be affect by the moving target issue (Bristleback should have fewer issues here).

One of the biggest problem with ranger is the pet. Anet wants to treat rangers and pets as one but they don’t. Any food buffs a ranger uses doesn’t apply to the pet any might stacks a ranger receives doesn’t get added to the pet. Running ascended gear doesn’t give my pet ascended stats (offence or defense).

Rangers boons should always affect the pet.

Skill that give pets boons should give them to the ranger instead(with the exception of maybe guard) and, the numbers should be adjusted accordingly.

Pets stat should be calculated based on the combine rarity of the items wore and wielded by the ranger: example If a ranger has full ascend gear his pet should be given stats as though he were an ascended pet.

With removal of the need for fortifying bond a group trait come be added and the traits rearranged accordingly.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

With the introduction of the new pets the smokescale and the bristleback pet survivability should go up. More pet control would be affected more by skill lag and would still be affect by the moving target issue (Bristleback should have fewer issues here).

Why does A-net have to make 5 new pets in order for pets to “work” correctly ? We have several pets right now… still not working right.

The fault isn’t all Anets. Rangers let the player base shun them for using bear bow. Taking the glassiest pet and then complaining they die to easy is just bad form. Not using skills and trait to help is not owning your contribution to the problem.One if you want your pet to stay alive help them by not sending them into the middle of a zerg.

Yes, the pet could follow the ranger a bit closer but, pet swapping is key to keeping them alive or not swapping say during the aoe phase of Mai Trin.

Also HOT is a new expansion they are using it as an opportunity to try now things I sure once they see how things work out with the new pet they will add new things for the exsisting pet why spend the time to add something to all 42 pet then find out its not good enough or its to OP.

The smoke scale has been given the ability to evade while in smoke they will need to see how well it works are the fields too long too short to frequent ect.

The Bristle back has been give 1200 range they need to see if this keeps the ranger in combat to long or if the ai bugs out in room that are to small because its trying to create to much distance all the time.

wyvern have been given skill this more range which may address the issue with moving targets.

Don’t get me wrong I really hate the notion of a healing druid with no other real group support. I really dislike how they handle the WHAO debacle.

However I am not bling to the fact the are taking step to make something’s better, even if they are moving at an extremely slow pace and make some choices I just flat out disagree with.

What does ranger lack in comparison to other specs, power or otherwise?

• ways to deal with boon stacking enemies
• AoE
• Skill/Utility bar compression
• competitive team support

Basically, almost all ranger specs are damage specs that are very linear in what they can accomplish, and all other classes specs can do a lot more with a single build than ranger can.

Druid sort of addresses some of those, but only by BEING a Druid.

So really, we amplify the scope of “what needs improvements” out to where we start with the question: Are other classes performing too many functions and roles with a single build, or are ranger builds not capable of doing enough?

1) a targeting marker when summoning spirits similar to the warrior banner one
2) rework of the shout family: Guard, SnR, Protect me and Sick em
3) pet PvE hitpoints translated into WvW and possibly PvP

Give pets the same dmg range / lunge as Moa’d pets.

See this video as an example of how bad our pets are in relation to the moa transform ability

jcbroe.4329:

What does ranger lack in comparison to other specs, power or otherwise?

• ways to deal with boon stacking enemies
• AoE
• Skill/Utility bar compression
• competitive team support

Basically, almost all ranger specs are damage specs that are very linear in what they can accomplish, and all other classes specs can do a lot more with a single build than ranger can.

Druid sort of addresses some of those, but only by BEING a Druid.

So really, we amplify the scope of “what needs improvements” out to where we start with the question: Are other classes performing too many functions and roles with a single build, or are ranger builds not capable of doing enough?

+1. We’ve all been over these points (and I’d add teleport to the mix of possible combos that could make us shine at something.) I wanted the PvP forum to think about what they expect from a ranger, which I don’t think any non-rangers have ever thought about at all. See the totally not-going-to-put-us-on-a-team WHaO fiasco as evidence of that. I once asked Chaithe (who is just hilariously vitriolic in his disdain of any kind of ranger) what he thought would make rangers good and he said spirits.

Fluffball.8307:

jcbroe.4329:

What does ranger lack in comparison to other specs, power or otherwise?

• ways to deal with boon stacking enemies
• AoE
• Skill/Utility bar compression
• competitive team support

Basically, almost all ranger specs are damage specs that are very linear in what they can accomplish, and all other classes specs can do a lot more with a single build than ranger can.

Druid sort of addresses some of those, but only by BEING a Druid.

So really, we amplify the scope of “what needs improvements” out to where we start with the question: Are other classes performing too many functions and roles with a single build, or are ranger builds not capable of doing enough?

+1. We’ve all been over these points (and I’d add teleport to the mix of possible combos that could make us shine at something.) I wanted the PvP forum to think about what they expect from a ranger, which I don’t think any non-rangers have ever thought about at all. See the totally not-going-to-put-us-on-a-team WHaO fiasco as evidence of that. I once asked Chaithe (who is just hilariously vitriolic in his disdain of any kind of ranger) what he thought would make rangers good and he said spirits.

Maybe to stick with the nature theme and the vines thing we could burrow underground like the mole men do ? (sorry i forgot how to spell there name)

As long as its not a slow movement would be close enough to a teleport.

Dradiin.8935:

Fluffball.8307:

jcbroe.4329:

What does ranger lack in comparison to other specs, power or otherwise?

• ways to deal with boon stacking enemies
• AoE
• Skill/Utility bar compression
• competitive team support

Basically, almost all ranger specs are damage specs that are very linear in what they can accomplish, and all other classes specs can do a lot more with a single build than ranger can.

Druid sort of addresses some of those, but only by BEING a Druid.

So really, we amplify the scope of “what needs improvements” out to where we start with the question: Are other classes performing too many functions and roles with a single build, or are ranger builds not capable of doing enough?

+1. We’ve all been over these points (and I’d add teleport to the mix of possible combos that could make us shine at something.) I wanted the PvP forum to think about what they expect from a ranger, which I don’t think any non-rangers have ever thought about at all. See the totally not-going-to-put-us-on-a-team WHaO fiasco as evidence of that. I once asked Chaithe (who is just hilariously vitriolic in his disdain of any kind of ranger) what he thought would make rangers good and he said spirits.

Maybe to stick with the nature theme and the vines thing we could burrow underground like the mole men do ? (sorry i forgot how to spell there name)

As long as its not a slow movement would be close enough to a teleport.

We move fast enough across the ground, teleports are needed for ledges. For example, in kyhlo a thief or mesmer can port directly into the clock tower. A ranger either has to do the mini jumping puzzle or run all the way around.