Guild Wars 2

Honestly.

Here’s how I’m looking at it: Somebody took their time to develop, test, and perfect a mechanic, completely and totally for aesthetic purposes that can only be maintained out of combat (aka if you take falling damage, the pet comes back out).

This isn’t even a thread to argue about the merits of certain things that already have threads for (aka, this isn’t to discuss whether perma-stow should be a thing).

I’m just genuinely curious why a developer would go through the trouble of implementing a feature with little to no practical use during gameplay.

Used to be very useful prior to the pet aggro patch. If you were running through somewhere, you needed to stow them or they would instantly aggro everything nearby. Now, they stay by you and the stow feature has less use, although still useful in places like Southsun as your pet runs to the side of you and has a good chance of aggroing a random karka.

It’s still useful in some dungeons with mine-type mechanics. Like SE path 1 and Canach’s Lair. Pets, even on passive, will trod over and set off every mine in the time zone. >.<

Gotejjeken.1267:

Used to be very useful prior to the pet aggro patch. If you were running through somewhere, you needed to stow them or they would instantly aggro everything nearby. Now, they stay by you and the stow feature has less use, although still useful in places like Southsun as your pet runs to the side of you and has a good chance of aggroing a random karka.

Pets can’t aggro mobs you haven’t aggroed already. They shouldn’t aggro the karka themselves any more although there is a chance they will shield you from the karka’s attack aimed at you and keep you out of combat.

Shiren.9532:

Gotejjeken.1267:

Used to be very useful prior to the pet aggro patch. If you were running through somewhere, you needed to stow them or they would instantly aggro everything nearby. Now, they stay by you and the stow feature has less use, although still useful in places like Southsun as your pet runs to the side of you and has a good chance of aggroing a random karka.

Pets can’t aggro mobs you haven’t aggroed already. They shouldn’t aggro the karka themselves any more although there is a chance they will shield you from the karka’s attack aimed at you and keep you out of combat.

But all minions/summons used to auto attack nearest enemy targets, which they changed so now only will attack what you attack or if you got attacked.

I don’t remember the pet ever attacking without being commanded or hit. There has always been the ability to tell the pet to stay unless commanded, players just don’t use it because it’s another level of micro. It’s more efficient, in most cases, to simply tell the pet to stay if it moves towards something you don’t want it to.

One interesting use for it is in WvW when solo roaming. When I run around solo with my wolf stowed, people get surprised by a knockdown out of nowhere when they hit me with melee. I picked this up from a WvW video wayyy back demonstrating how to solo-cap camps.

Outside of that, however, I’m just as clueless as you are.

I use it often (like jubskie said) in WvW to conceal my pet. I have been told and can see that it adds a bit of a fear factor to the ranger when an enemy sees you without a pet. If they see a spider for instance, they can plan accordingly, but if they can’t see anything they guess 1 of 2 things. A ) Your pet is currently invisible and will come out of stealth soon (Jaguar or Guard). B ) You are hiding your pet for a tactical advantage.

And they did make pets aggro mobs again in a previous patch as it was exploited in WvW to attack people inside camps while the NPCs didn’t do anything. I also use the stow feature almost all the time for PvE so that while running through content I don’t get drawn in combat.

It gets Fluffy out of the way for doing jump puzzles .

Stow triggers Mighty Swap and Vigorous Training, if you get into combat while the pet is stowed. It can put your pets health back to 100%, when you come out of combat. If you’re doing a jumping puzzle, it gets rid of the pet so it doesn’t block your visibility. And when you go past a ledge, it makes sure your pet isn’t left behind.

for pretending you’re just another thief in Lion’s Arch

There’s no purpose to it, it’s back out as soon as you stub your toe.

Just so you don’t look like a pratt in LA.

Kasama.8941:

Stow triggers Mighty Swap and Vigorous Training, if you get into combat while the pet is stowed. It can put your pets health back to 100%, when you come out of combat. If you’re doing a jumping puzzle, it gets rid of the pet so it doesn’t block your visibility. And when you go past a ledge, it makes sure your pet isn’t left behind.

This

Kasama.8941:

Stow triggers Mighty Swap and Vigorous Training, if you get into combat while the pet is stowed. It can put your pets health back to 100%, when you come out of combat. If you’re doing a jumping puzzle, it gets rid of the pet so it doesn’t block your visibility. And when you go past a ledge, it makes sure your pet isn’t left behind.

Interesting to the first part. That doesn’t really sound intentional though. It sounds like the current stow feature inherits from the pet swap feature and the creates an “empty” swap, or an “empty” object, given that it seems that most likely, the way that pet swapping is working is that it’s creating a new “object” on swap (object being the pet).

Not to discredit it, that is a truthful use. I just have my doubts the devs even intended it to work like that since the current stow option is so literally unimportant that it doesn’t even get it’s own key on the keyboard.

As for out of combat healing the pet to full health, you can just do that with the pet swap, since out of combat, there is basically no cooldown on pet swapping. Not to say they can’t do it with the stow button, but I’m sure more people do it just by toggling their pet real quick.

For jump puzzles, I’ve personally never had an instance where the pet was in my way. Then again, I’ve only done half the jump puzzles. Is there a particular one that the pet interferes more with visibility than others?

For the thread, I’ve seen you and everybody else list uses. Personally, I think they are a little out of the way still, but that’s my opinion, and unbiasedly, there are definitely some pros to utilizing the stow feature.

So I’ll restate the line of thinking I’m on right now:

How many people actually use the feature?

Personally, even with the pros listed, I don’t use it. Mighty Swap isn’t that important to me, I avoid bird pets at all costs, and I’ve never had a problem with visibility in jump puzzles.

If the usage percentage is as low as I believe it to be, why was money spent on implementing the feature?

Tied in to the last question; if the ranger is meant to be a pet class at all times, why even create a stow feature?

This isn’t pokemon, they don’t just return to little pokeballs. You physically are saying “screw you pet” and then getting rid of it. What’s the point of even having the feature of the ranger is a pet class and meant to always be using the pet? It’s like a counter designed feature for everything the devs have said the ranger is supposed to be in regards to the pet.

Again, not trying to ask any leading questions here, I’ve just been curious about this for a long time, because bluntly, I think that whoever designed and implemented the feature wasted their time. It was programmed, tested, and given a UI, for practically no reason, and the entire time that person was getting paid to do this, when they could have been making something else.

Honestly, the most puzzling thing about it is why it isn’t on a keybind… that and active/passive as well. Why aren’t those two on a keybind!?!?!! It is… “mind bottling.”

So we don’t get owned running up the stairs in the asura style fractal. Also, helps navigate ledges so they don’t have to catch up…

Kasama.8941:

Stow triggers Mighty Swap and Vigorous Training, if you get into combat while the pet is stowed. It can put your pets health back to 100%, when you come out of combat. If you’re doing a jumping puzzle, it gets rid of the pet so it doesn’t block your visibility. And when you go past a ledge, it makes sure your pet isn’t left behind.

Great comment, never made the connection with mighty swap, thanks.

Eurantien.4632:

So we don’t get owned running up the stairs in the asura style fractal. Also, helps navigate ledges so they don’t have to catch up…

Fair. Though I’ve always just pet toggled (assuming out of combat) going up ledges. The lack of being able to hotkey the stow has always made in more inconvenient for me personally, and I play primarily hotkeys using my mouse mostly for LoSing and dodging.

But I guess I shouldn’t apply my own experiences with the feature to everybody, so maybe there are people out there that find it a very convenient tool.

It’s so hard to express what I’m trying to express, like, I can’t get the words out of my head lol.

@Thread, let me try this:

Somebody went through the trouble to implement a working pet stow. It has no use when already in combat, and out of combat its use is mostly either aesthetic or a player used fix to help the pets navigation and pathing, with very situational uses that most likely are abusing how the mechanic was coded and how it interacts with traits (meaning what I explained earlier, that it inherits from pet swapping without distinguishing any mechanics associated with either feature). It also lacks a hotkey, which inadvertently grants it lower priority to the player, and makes it more of an inconvenience to use.

With the philosophy that the player’s pet is always on and the player should always be utilizing the pet for maximum efficiency, combined with everything previously mentioned, why does the stow mechanic even exist? Is it a remnant from the games pre-launch status?

Was it meant to have a higher purpose but scrapped for the current system? Was it previously a different function that got turned into this for the sake of time/balance?

It just seems highly illogical to invest the time to make a feature that you aren’t even going to add a hotkey to, implying with that action alone that the feature isn’t expected to see significant use.

I mean, I’m aware it would take a dev to actually answer this question, because really what I guess I’m asking is: Where in the development process did this seem like a necessary idea?

jcbroe.4329:

with very situational uses that most likely are abusing how the mechanic was coded and how it interacts with traits (meaning what I explained earlier, that it inherits from pet swapping without distinguishing any mechanics associated with either feature).

Just read the trait descriptions:
Mighty Swap: Pets gain 3 stacks of might (10s) when they are activated.
Vigorous Training: Moa, bird, and jellyfish pets grant AoE vigor (5s) when activated.

Then read this trait description:
Zephyr’s Speed: You and your pet gain 3 seconds of quickness when you swap pets.

Then try to figure out the difference between these sentences(hint: I highlighted it) and go figure out the implications of this.

And if your only problem with the traits is the fact, one of them is named “Mighty Swap”, yet also works on other occasions than pet swapping, feel free to file a suggestion, suggesting to change the name of the trait to “dynamic entry” or something.

naphack.9346:

jcbroe.4329:

with very situational uses that most likely are abusing how the mechanic was coded and how it interacts with traits (meaning what I explained earlier, that it inherits from pet swapping without distinguishing any mechanics associated with either feature).

Just read the trait descriptions:
Mighty Swap: Pets gain 3 stacks of might (10s) when they are activated.
Vigorous Training: Moa, bird, and jellyfish pets grant AoE vigor (5s) when activated.

Then read this trait description:
Zephyr’s Speed: You and your pet gain 3 seconds of quickness when you swap pets.

Then try to figure out the difference between these sentences(hint: I highlighted it) and go figure out the implications of this.

And if your only problem with the traits is the fact, one of them is named “Mighty Swap”, yet also works on other occasions than pet swapping, feel free to file a suggestion, suggesting to change the name of the trait to “dynamic entry” or something.

Wow, you sure are angry. Please read through the thread before suggesting to me that I have a problem with them, when I’m merely suggesting that it is more than likely an oversight that comes from the way the feature was most likely coded. Though I could be wrong about my assumption, it isn’t like I’m a programmer or anything (that last part there is sarcasm).

Also, because you want to do it to me, let me do it to you:

-Malicious Training: Increases duration for conditions applied by your pets.

Gee, that’s specific.

-Predator’s Instinct: Apply cripple to foes you hit when they are below 25% health (15-second cooldown).

How much cripple?

-Beastmaster’s Bond: Gain fury and might when your pet’s health reaches 50%.

Do these have durations?

-Sharpened Edges: Chance to cause bleeding on critical hits.

What’s the rate of application and how much bleeding?

-Carnivorous Appetite: Pets gain health on critical hits.

How much health?

-Healer’s Celerity: Grants swiftness to you and your ally when you revive someone. Increases revive speed by 10%.

How much swiftness?

-Vigorous Renewal: Gain vigor when using a heal skill.

How much vigor?

-Expertise Training: Pets deal extra condition damage.

How much condition damage?

-Hide in Plain Sight: Applies camouflage when you are dazed, knocked down, launched, pushed back, or stunned. This effect cannot trigger more than once every 30 seconds.

How long is the duration?

-Empathic Bond: Pets periodically take conditions from you.

How many conditions? How long is periodically?

-Concentration Training: Boons applied by your pets last longer.

How much longer?

-Nature’s Vengeance: Activated skills of spirits are larger and trigger when the spirit is killed.

How much larger?

-Master’s Bond: Your pet has a bond with you that increases its attributes each time you kill a foe. When it is defeated or deactivated, the bond is reset.

How much are they increased by?

-Compassion Training: Pet healing attributes are increased.

By how much?

Commanding Voice: Pet skills (F2) recharge faster.

How much faster?

Natural Healing: Your pets have natural health regeneration.

How much health regeneration? Is there a chance this affects me as well?

Looks to me like ANet is very specific with their trait descriptions. They always do exactly what their description implies. /sarcasm

And, if you want to be real technical about it, since the description says activate, and not on pet swap, it means that the pets should only gain might or vigor after being activated from a stowed state, since that is the only in game description that stays consistent with the traits description. Nowhere in that trait description does it say pets should be gaining any bonuses on swap. Only on activation.

Yes, they do what their description implies and your examples only prove that.
Look over your list again.
There is a difference between vague/incorrect wording and missing metrics. All those traits work as specified, the descriptions just don’t give any information on how significant their effects will be.

naphack.9346:

Yes, they do what their description implies and your examples only prove that.
Look over your list again.
There is a difference between vague/incorrect wording and missing metrics. All those traits work as specified, the descriptions just don’t give any information on how significant their effects will be.

And, if you want to be real technical about it, since the description says activate, and not on pet swap, it means that the pets should only gain might or vigor after being activated from a stowed state, since that is the only in game description that stays consistent with the traits description. Nowhere in that trait description does it say pets should be gaining any bonuses on swap. Only on activation.

when activated = “come into play”-effect (for all the Magic players out there).
Basically “activated” means, when the pet enters the battlefield. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

naphack.9346:

when activated = “come into play”-effect (for all the Magic players out there).
Basically “activated” means, when the pet enters the battlefield. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

The in game descriptions are not consistent. Stow/Activate versus swap. Also, there is apparently a difference in the trait description that you highlighted for me that differentiates the two functions, just as there is in game.

@jcbroe: I understand what you’re asking loud and clear and hopefully a dev comes along with an answer. It really does baffle me that if we are intended to always have our pets (as Anet has pretty much shoved that idea down our throats from launch) then why even implement a stow feature? It further baffles me that if there is a stow feature in place, why is it not more useful? Make it a hotkey, make it so when I take 14 damage from falling it stays stowed like I wanted, etc. I can see some very minor benefits, like if I’m roaming and get surprised my pet pops out of nowhere with might or aoe vigor... but that’s it. Really, it’s just cosmetic - as is much of this game, I suppose - but why have a feature like that for only a cosmetic purpose? Seems like a lot of trouble to go to.

As to the trait descriptions, aren’t those supposed to be cleaned up in an upcoming patch?

felixdacat.3804:

@jcbroe: I understand what you’re asking loud and clear and hopefully a dev comes along with an answer. It really does baffle me that if we are intended to always have our pets (as Anet has pretty much shoved that idea down our throats from launch) then why even implement a stow feature? It further baffles me that if there is a stow feature in place, why is it not more useful? Make it a hotkey, make it so when I take 14 damage from falling it stays stowed like I wanted, etc. I can see some very minor benefits, like if I’m roaming and get surprised my pet pops out of nowhere with might or aoe vigor… but that’s it. Really, it’s just cosmetic – as is much of this game, I suppose – but why have a feature like that for only a cosmetic purpose? Seems like a lot of trouble to go to.

As to the trait descriptions, aren’t those supposed to be cleaned up in an upcoming patch?

Exactly. And they should be, yes.

Like, why create a usable feature, and not even bother adding a hotkey to it? That alone is baffling lol.

If the Activation effects weren’t intended to work wiith stow, entering the surface of water probably shouldn’t have killed Beastmaster’s Bond when I was using it. Weird way to learn that ‘swapped’ and ‘activated’ aren’t technically synonymous, but there you go.

Also, Troll’s End, at least, has the pets be kinda obnoxious, since you’re in a teeny tiny tunnel and are mostly fighting the camera, rather than the platforms.

It’s where the budget to code “real” Ranger mechanics went. /sarcasm