Guild Wars 2

Which of the following changes would make spirits effective enough…. active enough… and interesting enough for you to want to use them? Specify for PvP/WvW/Dungeons/Etc.

Crazier suggestions are near the bottom.

1. Increase Spirit Health.
2. Increase Spirit Toughness.
3. Increase the radius of triggered abilities. Huge.
4. Increase the duration/damage of triggered abilities.
5. Speed up activation of triggered abilities and reduce cooldown.
6. Move Spirits Unbound to a lower trait tier.
7. Spirits passively pulse AoE damage to foes in the area.
8. Spirits passively pulse heals on allies in the area a small amount.
9. Spirits passively revive allies in the area.
10. Spirits also offer a chance to grant a 2s Aura to allies when they are hit (with cooldown). Magnetic Aura, Shocking Aura, etc.
11. When Spirits die, they do AoE damage.
12. When Spirits die, they do AoE heal.
13. When Spirits die, they grant AoE auras or could be traited to.
14. When Spirits are born, they do AoE damage.
15. When Spirits are born, they do AoE heal.
16. When Spirits are born, they grant AoE auras.
17. Spirits have Retaliation or could be traited to have it with Nature’s Vengeance.
18. Spirits passively reduce the duration of conditions applied to allies, Sun reduces Burning, Stone reduces Bleeding, Frost reduces Chilling, Storm reduces Crippling.
19. Spirits proc a secondary effect… Burning AND Might from Sun, Protection AND Crippling from Stone, etc. or they could be traited to do so with Spiritual Knowledge.
20. Each living Spirit grants you a special 10% faster endurance recovery (which would stack with Vigor) or could be traited to do so with Vigorous Spirits.
21. Make Spirits follow you by default and make a new trait that would make them larger, tougher, more powerful, and ground targettable, but immobile.
22. Spirits can melee attack.
23. Spirits can shoot beams.
24. Spirits are immune to physical damage.
25. Spirits are immune to conditions.
26. Spirits summon foraged items periodically… boulders, ice shards, etc.
27. Spirits summon weaker nature minions that can fight.
28. Spirits after being summoned become a kit type skill that grants 5 bonus Skills. One would be the current triggered skill, one could teleport the spirit to you, one could shoot a beam, etc.

Can you think of anything else a spirit could do? I see a lot of people complaining that warrior banners do so much more, do it so much better, and do it more consistently than Spirits. So please… what would it take to get you to use spirits? Do they just need minor adjustments, cool new effects on their traits, or do we need them to become like kits with 5 new skills?

I would just like them to be able to survive longer than 0.01 seconds. Even in open world PvE (i.e. the easiest place to survive) they die entirely too easy.

I think low health is fine if there just also was a really low cooldown like 30 sec. The active skills get removed but every spirit has a effect when it dies. Passive efects get reworked:

Sun Spirit: 50% chance to burn on attack for 1 second, creates a fire field on death for 6 seconds that burns foes every second.

Storm Spirit: 25% chance to daze for 0.5 seconds, creates a static field on death stunning foes that leave/enter it for 1 second.

Earth Spirit: Grants protection to nearby players every 5 seconds for 2 seconds, creates a poison field on death for 8 seconds poisoning foes every second.

Frost Spirit: 25% chance to chill foes for 1 second, creates an ice field on death for 4 seconds chilling foes every second.

This is all without traits. Most traits get removed. Remaining/new traits:

• spirits create a blast finisher on death (will trigger the combo on their own create field right when they die) → master trait
• spirits follow you → grandmaster trait
• all spirit cooldowns are decreased by 20% → master trait

I agree with you Dojo: either increase the health/armor, or decrease the cooldown.

i can think of one more effect

when spirits get attacked,the attacker gets conditions for 5 seconds per attack based on the spirits element.the more he attacks,the more the condition duration stacks. Sun spirit-Burn,Frost spirit-Chills,Earth spirit-Immobilsied,Storm spirit-daze(1 second,not 5 like the rest) the elite spirit absorbs all damage and convert them to healing to all allies.

this way,i don’t mind my spirit getting attacked,i still benefit from it

I feel more like I’m setting a trap when I put down a Spirit w/ Nature’s Vengeance than I do working with our actual traps, I feel like I’m providing more support to my allies with a Trap than I do laying down a Spirit. Honestly, I just want somebody to really dig in and give these two a purity of purpose, because right now it’s a horrible mishmosh of functional redundancy and identity crisis.

Personally, I think Spirits should have Combo Fields as their activated effects.
Traps shouldn’t be these spammable pressure things, they should be sections of ground people immediately regret stepping on that hurt like bloody blazes on par with AC Ranger’s Spike Trap.

When it is all said and done, we should have a mechanic that is useful and effective in a variety of game modes, powerful when used right, yet feels and plays different from minions, spirit weapons, wells, banners, and traps. And people should enjoy using it.

If they are going to be made more active… they need to survive while using their active up close, or have an active that is useful from far away, or have other ways to activate abilities.

If they are going to remain very passive… they could also apply a passive effect to foes in the area. Such as making conditions last longer on that enemy: burning, chilling, crippling, dazing. Does anyone ever take Sun Spirit with Flame Trap or Frost Spirit with Frost Trap? Probably not because trap builds tend to go heavy into traps and spirit builds heavy into spirits. Maybe by looking at how other utility skills can interact with spirits we might discover other ways spirits could help us.

When I /dance, my spirits /dance with me.

I’d use spirits if that were true.

Other than that, the skill’s benefit just needs to be far more apparent and reliable. No one is going to feel like they’re turning the tide of battle with a 1-second cast time to create an extremely squishy npc that imbues a miniscule area with a negligible chance for an attack to grant an insignificant buff that barely lasts long enough for you to finish being surprised that it procced. I mean if you trait them, they start to look like they could compete with food buffs.

I use Spirits already.

I might actually trait the spirits if the internal cooldown were reduced and spirits had perma protection up.

As is the only two spirits I consistantly run are stone and Elite.

Sun spirit underwater because I can’t have my fire trap.

They’d have to be mobile, provide better buffs that are active 100% of the time, and be indestructible all without being traited.

Y’know, like how warrior banners are already. And they’re getting buffed…

But nope. Spirits aren’t deserving enough.

Spirits should give A LOT better group buffs. Solo pve is easy and fun as it is without using spirits. Rangers don’t need buffs to make solo pve’ing (events, maps tasks, farming etc.) better. But we need something that makes us wanted in groups! Healing Spring is not enough to make rangers wanted in dungeons, www, or fractals.
Make rangers wanted at least based on something! Spirits could do this job. Or better traps and better pets!

Why can’t they just be like warrior banners?!?!!?

And btw, they are SPIRITS!!! they should NOT die!

I normally pack sun & stone spirits now. If they were mobile, I might rethink that.

Storm Spirit is the one spirit that never gets mentioned by people who say they use spirits… it speeds up a lot of people… but only in combat… while it remains alive. Compare that to warrior banners which can speed up everyone while travelling outside of combat, and can help you escape a fight. Storm Spirit is good for running out of red circles and kiting in a small area if it is immobile. If mobile, it is good for running out of red circles, kiting, and chasing in a larger space. The problem is the red circles it helps you run out of tend to kill the spirit. It really isn’t good for escaping because it doesn’t last that long once you stop shooting.

What if…

• Storm Spirit had a chance to cause Lightning Strikes on hit?
• Storm Spirit had a chance to cause Dazing on hit?
• Storm Spirit granted a passive movement speed buff?
• Storm Spirit produced a Static Field as its triggered ability?

It took a long time before traps produced combo fields, perhaps it is time a spirit produced one?

If the spirits are to remain a source of augmentation for the ranger and his allies then they should not be attack-able provide a stat bonus if they are not going to lose the internal cooldown, maybe as mentioned before provide a combo field with active skill.

If they are going to remain attack-able then rework the spirit as a minion-esqe utility pseudo-pet and with the extra survivability that role demands.

If spirits are going to stay squishy and be in this world for only a brief amount of timebefore they die, then during that brief amount of time, they need to have a noticeable impact like other classes uitlities. If they keep them squishy then make it so that other players are like “OH Nice! That ranger just put spirits up!” Or “Oh cool we got a spirit ranger with us!”

It’s time to make other classes jealous of us for once. Spirits need to provide something that other players observe and go wow that was pretty kitten! WE ARE COMPLETELY LACKING IN THAT FACTOR. Remember the last time you were impressed by another class? Like Holy kitten that guardian just survived all that!? What a beast! Or Oh cool we got a Mesmer for Time Warp, or sweet a warrior he’s going to make this go quicker with his huge deeps.

We don’t have that factor…. People aren’t impressed by Rangers right now, and there’s really no Awe factor as in wow that ranger provides something we can’t get anywhere else (besides the water field). We need to have a unique something that makes other players go oh cool a ranger he is going to bring x to the group, and spirits I feel are a Unique concept (the design not the effect) that can set rangers apart from the 8 other professions in our own unique way.

Frankly I’m not even sure what to do with them because they’re so weak, it isn’t funny. What is worse is I believe the developing team, and at least a few Rangers think they are the best thing since sliced bread.

First, and foremost they die way too fast, even faster than our pets, and secondly the abilities they grant are actually kind of weak in comparison to other professions. When an enemy sees them, they should kill them first because the Ranger has to trait pretty heavy for them. Leaving them weak in other areas.

Here is a shot as what to do with Spirits.

Nature’s Vengeance — Activated skills of spirits are cast instantly, are larger and trigger when the spirit is killed.
Spirits Unbound; Special Note: Combine this with Spiritual Knowledge, making them one single trait. — Spirits can move and follow you, while having a 15% better chance of providing their benefits.
Vigorous Spirits — Spirits have twice as much health, and take 50% less damage from AoEs.

Frost Spirit
- 35% chance to grant 10% bonus damage on hit.
- 35% chance to cause Weakness 2 seconds on hit.

Stone Spirit
- 35% chance to grant Protection, 3 seconds on hit. (6 second cooldown)
- 35% chance to grant Stability, 3 seconds on hit. (6 second cooldown)

Storm Spirit
- 35% chance to give Swiftness, 8 seconds on hit. (No Cooldown)
- 35% chance to cause Stun, 1 second on hit. (3 second cooldown)

Sun Spirit
- 35% chance to cause Burning, 3 seconds on hit.
- 35% chance to cause Vulnerability, 3 seconds on hit.

@JK, normally I’d say “Omg that’s kittening OP” but seeing as how spirits are made of tissue paper and won’t be up for longer than maybe 2 procs, I see that being fairly balanced.

I’ll take em if you drop the ICD to 5/6 or 7s. They’re trash untraited.
Merge Nv with SK and make SU give them protection every 15s and its all good.

misterdevious.6482:

Storm Spirit is the one spirit that never gets mentioned by people who say they use spirits… it speeds up a lot of people… but only in combat… while it remains alive. Compare that to warrior banners which can speed up everyone while travelling outside of combat, and can help you escape a fight. Storm Spirit is good for running out of red circles and kiting in a small area if it is immobile. If mobile, it is good for running out of red circles, kiting, and chasing in a larger space. The problem is the red circles it helps you run out of tend to kill the spirit. It really isn’t good for escaping because it doesn’t last that long once you stop shooting.

*What ikitten Storm Spirit had a chance to cause Lightning Strikes on hit?

• Storm Spirit had a chance to cause Dazing on hit?
• Storm Spirit granted a passive movement speed buff?
• Storm Spirit produced a Static Field as its triggered ability?

It took a long time before traps produced combo fields, perhaps it is time a spirit produced one?

This is basically my suggestion. Also guys I really would not ask for spirits being less squishy but rather ask for lower cooldown in the 30 sec range. This comes with many more upsides not at last that getting the “spirits follow you” trait would be less of a must have because you can recast more frequently.

Giving spirits a 30 second cooldown and just let them trigger their actives effects (that should become combo fiels of the correspodning element) on death would make them more fun to use and less polarizing when they die. This is really the way to go imo(beside I hate heaving huge cooldowns on utilities).

In order for me to start using spirits, they would need to be closer to what they were in Guild Wars. I’d like to see spirits that increase projectile speed and damage, increase condition damage by a percent, convert combo fields in the area to a different type, etc. Edge of extinction in a boss fight with lots of adds could be incredible. Effects simlar to Fertile Season and Predatory Season would have been pretty cool too. What we have now just doesn’t do much.

This is what infuriates me. Spirits are are, no offense to ANET meant, but “lazy design” in my eyes. Instead of being a cool unique item, the are just passive buffs THE EXACT SAME THING as another set of signets. It’s Almost like we have 8 Signets out of our utilities skills, except 4 of them can be killed, and have to have traits to follow you. WTH spirits need to made into something unique

Same post in 2 different threads because that’s how strongly I feel.

Killsmith.8169:

In order for me to start using spirits, they would need to be closer to what they were in Guild Wars. I’d like to see spirits that increase projectile speed and damage, increase condition damage by a percent, convert combo fields in the area to a different type, etc. Edge of extinction in a boss fight with lots of adds could be incredible. Effects simlar to Fertile Season and Predatory Season would have been pretty cool too. What we have now just doesn’t do much.

I used spirits in GW1 while just playing through the game. You could build around an interesting spirit in GW1. It is hard to build around “the enemy might occasionally be on fire and might rarely be blinded” in GW2.

• Increasing Projectile Speed ala Favorable Winds would indeed be an interesting effect to add to Storm Spirit.
• Changing one field type to another is probably too extreme, but…

What if Spirits could improve combo fields in the area… possibly the duration, the size, or the number of times they can be triggered?

• Sun Spirit improves Fire or Light fields.
• Storm Spirit improves Lightning or Water fields.
• Frost Spirit improves Ice.
• Elite Spirit improves Water.
• Stone Spirit… dunno, maybe it could improve skills like Muddy Terrain.

That could create some interesting interplay between Spirits and other skills.

I will not use spirits, pretty much no matter what they do to their mechanics. I play a ranger to deal ranged physical damage, not summon magical forest ghosts. (This is, of course, my completely subjective opinion.)

I guess the only chance would be if they were completely untargetable and immune to all damage, but I would still rather that the “unparalleled archers who are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows” have more utility options that actually help their bow skills.

Simple. Increase spirits affective range to 1200 or 1500. This will allow for tactical placement which means they wont get their kitten killed while you’re fighting. Placing behind walls and rocks etc would be handy. especially in sieges.

Killsmith.8169:

In order for me to start using spirits, they would need to be closer to what they were in Guild Wars. I’d like to see spirits that increase projectile speed and damage, increase condition damage by a percent, convert combo fields in the area to a different type, etc. Edge of extinction in a boss fight with lots of adds could be incredible. Effects simlar to Fertile Season and Predatory Season would have been pretty cool too. What we have now just doesn’t do much.

I loved spirits in GW1 because you could make a team built around them? For example, Equinox + Arcane Languor + Famine

Or Winter + Mantra of frost….

My main problems with spirits are the internal cooldown and the fact that their active ability doesn’t fit their purpose (why would a frail, buff-type utility that would rather be out of range of enemies have an active ability completely centered around hitting enemies in a short range?).

The former is an easy enough fix. Just reduce it. 5 seconds instead of 10 seconds would give much more uptime on their effects and overall make them much more usable.

For the second issue, I’d do this…

~ Take the current active abilities off completely, except when using the “spirits use their ability on death” trait. When using that particular trait, the spirits would still pulse their current AoE debuff ability on death, but other than that its gone.

~ Add a new, buff-centered active ability, so that the spirits are completely buff related utilities rather than the “half buff half AoE” wierd combination they are now. There are a number of possible options here.
A. They could simply give an on-demand (not-random) version of their existing buff. Kind of boring, but useful for the times you really need Protection at a specific time, or want to stack some burn ala Virtue of Justice.
B. They could give a different boon or a different type of “apply a debuff with your next attack” type effect. For example, Storm Spirit could apply a buff which makes your next attack inflict Weakness. Frost Spirit could make your next attack apply Chill. Stone Spirit could give nearby allies a Stability boon.
C. They could grant an aura to nearby allies, corresponding with the spirit type. Sun Spirit = Flame Aura, Storm Spirit = Shocking Aura, ect.

If they returned to the way they were in beta and before PvP players started whining about them.

But that will never happen.

-Spirits active ability is too obvious, is interuptable, and is takes too long to activate. I suggest that one of the following be applied for PvP, abilities activate twice as fast or redo the animation to make it less obvious (oh oh pick me animation is bad).
-Spirits Unbound actually makes spirits die more often because random aoe at the ranger will kill them quickly. Increased HP+Toughness of the spirits but in all seriousness this is not the answer, I think a more interesting solution would be able to command the spirits to hold position and follow so they can be placed and moved to avoid aoe damage.
- Spirit CD and Max players affected by spirits overlap in their purpose, make it one or the other. According to what I have heard (not tested) that spirits take buff priority over other players since they will be closer to each others “center” this has to be fixed as well. A spirit that is dependant on hit that dies quickly that requires a specific area to trigger and will not even grant perma swiftness is a poorly designed skill.
-Banners are more efficient and cannot die, this is not the only argument point since banners are recieving a confirmed buff whereas spirits are still worthless.

Durzlla.6295:

Killsmith.8169:

In order for me to start using spirits, they would need to be closer to what they were in Guild Wars. I’d like to see spirits that increase projectile speed and damage, increase condition damage by a percent, convert combo fields in the area to a different type, etc. Edge of extinction in a boss fight with lots of adds could be incredible. Effects simlar to Fertile Season and Predatory Season would have been pretty cool too. What we have now just doesn’t do much.

I loved spirits in GW1 because you could make a team built around them? For example, Equinox + Arcane Languor + Famine

Or Winter + Mantra of frost….

They definitely created some interesting synergy in GW1. Of course, since we’ve only got 5 spirits to choose from this time around, the really situational stuff is no good. That doesn’t mean that they couldn’t have had some really interesting effects.

A complete redesign (there is so much wrong with the current design, tweaking it is like trying to add salt to a horrible meal to make it taste better – it’s better to bin the whole meal and start fresh than try and salvage the charred and gluggy remains of the first attempt) or the current design buffed to the point where it’s OP in several ways to make up for all the design flaws of static, killable, boring buffs.

they should not die, ever.
Just look at th warrior banners, they have comparable or better buffs, with no player limit and no % of activation, cannot be destroyed, can be picked up, moved, and grant you 5 skills while doing so. Yet many wars complain about them.

Comparing them to spirits makes me really wonder what was the balance team thinking.

I’d probably use spirits if…

a) They persisted in world until destroyed
b) They followed you without a trait
c) They were harder to kill
d) They had some effect when they are destroyed

Current activation effects suck too as they are way too slow, small, and weak so I certainly could do without them. Essentially I would rather see them as mobile destructible AoE signets. I could use another option that benefits team and doesn’t require babysitting since I already have to do that with my pet.

Nothing..

The only thing that made them remotely usable in the past was not being able to be killed….in which they were nothing more then Signets at that point, but group oriented.

The whole Spirit Concept needs a vast redesign.

To add to the brainstorming list:

Killed spirits gives a condition to the player that killed it

Spirits Unbound is still a grandmaster but, if not traited, spirits are invulnerable to attack (they still exist in the ether so they can’t run and can’t be hit…if you want a lore based explanation)

Spirits have skills, like pets, but instead of attacks, it’s AoE buffs on a CD that activate various boons on players or conditions on enemies within range

That’s all I got right now.

I like the idea of Spirits being a Buff you can impart someone with.

Mainly, Lets say I have Spirit of the Sun, I can Click say another player or my Pet, and Activate Spirit of the Sun which gives that Player or my Pet a chance to do a Burning Attacking and proc a Blind when hit.

You could then go up the Nature Line, and have other buffs like The Player or the Pet you have this Spirit buff attached to whenever he crits gives the Ranger a Stack of Might for example, Or maybe give a talent where Whenever the player procs the Burn attack from the Spirit Buff, he gives all players around him a chance to Proc a similar burn.

There is plenty of different ways they could take the Spirit line, the current method right now is crap….And you have only two ways it can go, It can either be terrible like it is now, Or it can be a stupid Group Signet type setting like it was in beta.

Lots of suggestions to work with here. The main issue is the rng nature of these boons and that u have to attack to proc them. I can faceroll over 50 secs of prot and 15k-ish heals if I land my dodge rolls on my guard. Ranger can give perma fury and swiftness but meh so can warriors.

I like the idea that spirits either become minions (see minion masters/spirit weapons) that give buffs/conditions instead of doing damage.

Then again, if spirits were like in GW1 (really powerful buffs/de buffs to everything in range) I’d be happy too, but this stupid fragile spirit with only a chance to proc something, and then an ICD on that proc is just stupid.

PS: spirits were equally fragile in GW1, but they were a LOT stronger in the buff/debuff department.