Guild Wars 2

Simply put we need this mechanic: when i press dodge-roll button my pet also evade attacks… this should be baseline. At the moment ranger dodge aoes, pet still stands in them and even if u call him back with F3 or F4(mode swap) he won’t make it in time or still stand in aoe(since ranger stands close to circle). Not to mention this is insane micromanagement for close to none results.

Example for developers… go in SE p1 at Tazza(last boss) go melee 5 rangers tell me how big is your pet graveyard after boss(because of aoes). Of course this only 1 example.

If I am wrong tell me what I’m missing and help me L2P…

P.s. No this isn’t asking too much, when we have the group support and dps of other classes(cough cry more about elite spec ele:D) then you can tell me I ask too much.

Sounds good to me.

Dodges are too valuable to have blow them to save your pet from damage, IMO, and one dodge won’t save your pet from a WvW zerg. Others have proposed damage reductions based on a percentage, as well as Resistance or reduced condition duration/stacks, which I would be in favor of.

Would your proposed change also cancel whatever action your pet is doing? I can think of situations where I might want to dodge, but I want my pet to still keep attacking/use their skill and not cancel it with a dodge.

I mean I can see this being useful for PvE, but this might screw up a lot of things in PvP.

this has been brought up before and I’m not fan, for similar reasons as slingblade and bloodpyrope. I’d rather they put a dodge on f3 and give the pet it’s own endurance.

I’d rather they just give pets halfway decent AI and let them dodge on their own. Anet has proven that they can make enemies that are at least somewhat smarter than rocks.

Quarktastic.1027:

I’d rather they just give pets halfway decent AI and let them dodge on their own. Anet has proven that they can make enemies that are at least somewhat smarter than rocks.

This. The AI of the Toxic Alliance Nightmare Court enemies that dodge is something I would like to see on pets.

It’s a terrible solution, for the same reason that not having a pet based heal sucks.

Basically, on top of having to wate your own heal when you don’t need it to heal the pet, now you also have to waste your dodges when you don’t need to just so your pet can dodge.

It’s bad.

slingblade.1437:

Dodges are too valuable to have blow them to save your pet from damage, IMO, and one dodge won’t save your pet from a WvW zerg. Others have proposed damage reductions based on a percentage, as well as Resistance or reduced condition duration/stacks, which I would be in favor of.

This way of thinking is what needs to change. Pets should be a valuable asset for your damage and build where there are no seconds thought of whether spend a dodge roll to save my pet or just let them die. I dream for a day when you get your pet killed you’ll feel the lost, that way pet management will be a skill needed for ranger players.

FunSeeker.4815:

slingblade.1437:

Dodges are too valuable to have blow them to save your pet from damage, IMO, and one dodge won’t save your pet from a WvW zerg. Others have proposed damage reductions based on a percentage, as well as Resistance or reduced condition duration/stacks, which I would be in favor of.

This way of thinking is what needs to change. Pets should be a valuable asset for your damage and build where there are no seconds thought of whether spend a dodge roll to save my pet or just let them die. I dream for a day when you get your pet killed you’ll feel the lost, that way pet management will be a skill needed for ranger players.

No, the problem is you think in terms of gimmicks instead of practical applications.

If other classes don’t need to babysit 20% of their damage which dies and goes on a 50 sec cd 10 seconds into a fight consisting of 10+ people, that puts the ranger at a disadvantage.

There’s no avoiding the pet dying on Liadri, and your Jaguars most certainly are gonna die to Archdiviner melee and Molten Bros aoe. It’s that simple.

No, using a lesser DPS pet is not an option considering jaguar is the only pet which puts melee ranger on a competitive level of DPS.

If there is more risk and cost to playing a ranger, at the very least ranger coefficients should be adjusted so they have a higher potential ceiling on damage output to reward the extra effort/inconvenience, but that’s not a thing in the game right now, where berserker rangers are only ahead of necromancer and mesmer in damage and behind everyone else.

FunSeeker.4815:

slingblade.1437:

Dodges are too valuable to have blow them to save your pet from damage, IMO, and one dodge won’t save your pet from a WvW zerg. Others have proposed damage reductions based on a percentage, as well as Resistance or reduced condition duration/stacks, which I would be in favor of.

This way of thinking is what needs to change. Pets should be a valuable asset for your damage and build where there are no seconds thought of whether spend a dodge roll to save my pet or just let them die. I dream for a day when you get your pet killed you’ll feel the lost, that way pet management will be a skill needed for ranger players.

When they give us more pet management option, when we can see what conditions they have, when pets are able to jump over obstacles, when they are able to actually hit players other than noobs or to hit moving targets, when we can control what they do, where they are , when we can protect them from OS mechanism, when we syop having traits hurting them, in short, when they really are a useful part of the class, that would come by itself.

Make us WANT to play with it by giving us a reason to care for it, and tools to do so (ranger controlled pet dodge, pet heal, pet positionning tool), and they can be central to the class.

Why waste heal or dodge on pet? If my pet dies, which it will do anyway, I can still hit; if I heal for the pet, and don’t have heal for me when needed, and I die, pet not gonna do much. Heal on pet is useless against OS mechanism. We have nothing to save the pet from these. The Signet, with it’s CD, can only save the pet once in a fight. Swap has to be timed at the exact same time ranger has to dodge, given AoE OS, which could only be done with a macro, which is forbidden. And swap might be on CD, so not so useful.

Here is not the subject for pet problems, though.

On topic:
I’d love the pet to gain a dodge or aegis or else on demand with a decent CD. Have it dodge with me, less so. It might be good in PvE, but not practical in PvP. Pet is to be a second DpS source, so it migh not be in same danger as me, ie, when I send it on side target, it does not need to dodge what I dodge.

I see some issues with this… say you’re facing an opponent with a channeled attack (Ranger LB2 comes to mind) that you’re trying to mitigate. A way that I do this on my ranger is to dodge and use F2 to trigger a blind/taunt combo. This mitigates all of the damage from the channeled attack assuming I hit the dodge at the right time.

With the change you’re proposing, the pet dodge would override or delay the F2 and ruin the combo.

We went through this years ago. Pet dodge on your dodge was the top suggestion. What Anet gave us instead was a trait which gave the ranger and pet protection on dodge. They even patched it later so the pet got the protection immediately, but you got the protection after your dodge was finished (so you weren’t wasting protection uptime during the dodge).

A lot of us weren’t happy about being forced to take a specific trait to make up for the poor AI (move out of the red circle for heaven’s sake!). But it is what it is.

I don’t want my pets stop doing what they’re doing just because I dodge. This topic comes up every six months or so. People that still suggest that pets should dodge when we do seriously need to think things over a bit more.

Imho, pets should gain distortion for X seconds when we hit F3, with either an icd of sorts, or their own type of endurance bar that the distortion effect drains from when active. That way, the possible vigor pets would gain (from for example fortifying bond) would see some use.

Also, Companion’s Defense could very well grant protection AND aegis for the pet. That way the ppl wanting dodge for pets when we dodge, would almost get what they ask for.

But a true dodge for the pet when we dodge? No thank you.

What would be a good idea is make the pet gain a distortion-like effect, for the same duration of a dodge roll, that way the pet get the invulnerability frames they need and can keep attacking, server-side you won’t even need animation/status verification since it won’t interrupt whatever the pet is doing.
It is just like what OP suggested, but without the interruption issue.

EDIT: That wouldn’t be OP because the ranger would need to decide if he wants to use the vigor for himself or for the pet.

Pets gaining distortion/evade frames while being allowed to keep doing what they are can be abused with F2s. It’ll be just another thing to add to the complaint list on the class and be nerfed. No thanks.

As other people have pointed out in other threads and suggested, “Playing Favorites” mistlock instability added to the pet is the best we can hope for.

Wondrouswall.7169:

Pets gaining distortion/evade frames while being allowed to keep doing what they are can be abused with F2s. It’ll be just another thing to add to the complaint list on the class and be nerfed. No thanks.

And that would be the reason to add such an ability to F3.

OGDeadHead.8326:

Wondrouswall.7169:

Pets gaining distortion/evade frames while being allowed to keep doing what they are can be abused with F2s. It’ll be just another thing to add to the complaint list on the class and be nerfed. No thanks.

And that would be the reason to add such an ability to F3.

Bugger that. I don’t want to have to press an additional key every time I want the pet to dodge too and keep track of its endurance etc.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Wondrouswall.7169:

Pets gaining distortion/evade frames while being allowed to keep doing what they are can be abused with F2s. It’ll be just another thing to add to the complaint list on the class and be nerfed. No thanks.

And that would be the reason to add such an ability to F3.

Bugger that. I don’t want to have to press an additional key every time I want the pet to dodge too and keep track of its endurance etc.

So… you want a class mechanic that is more tied to AI and provides less opportunity for active play? That’s… rather odd, imho.

It could be a good idea, often when fighting up close you want to dodge the opponents heavy attacks, that currently also hits your pet

Personally I think that having pet dodge on player dodge would be a much better scenario than pet not dodging at all, or pet having to be dodge micro-managed forcing me to press two keys if I want both of us to dodge.

Giving pet an AI dodge mechanic ‘might’ be pretty good, but to be honest I’d still probably prefer the dodge to be bound to my dodge, simply because I’m unsure how good that AI dodge mechanic actually is.

For those of you pointing out that giving the pet a non-interrupting evade boon could be abused, why not give the pet 0.75s of Signet of Stone (active) when the player dodges. That would allow the pet to attack, give it immunity to damage during the dodge duration, but still leave the pet susceptible to conditions and control effects.

MattyP.6954:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Wondrouswall.7169:

Pets gaining distortion/evade frames while being allowed to keep doing what they are can be abused with F2s. It’ll be just another thing to add to the complaint list on the class and be nerfed. No thanks.

And that would be the reason to add such an ability to F3.

Bugger that. I don’t want to have to press an additional key every time I want the pet to dodge too and keep track of its endurance etc.

So… you want a class mechanic that is more tied to AI and provides less opportunity for active play? That’s… rather odd, imho.

I just don’t want more buttons to press. There is already enough button spamming in this game and there is no real reason to have a pet evade separate from the Ranger.

Actually, I’m fine with it now that I think about it. I’ll just make a mouse keybind that does both dodges at the same time.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Wondrouswall.7169:

Pets gaining distortion/evade frames while being allowed to keep doing what they are can be abused with F2s. It’ll be just another thing to add to the complaint list on the class and be nerfed. No thanks.

And that would be the reason to add such an ability to F3.

Bugger that. I don’t want to have to press an additional key every time I want the pet to dodge too and keep track of its endurance etc.

I’d like to think of the F3 suggestion I made as a “get out of there NOW!” thing, more than an actual dodge mechanic. Most of the time, it’s hard enough keeping track of what you yourself needs to dodge, keeping track of another entity and dodge for that one as well are in many (most) cases too much to ask for.

Granting aegis to pets when we dodgeroll, in conjunction with the proposed F3 mechanic, could go a long way imho. But an actual ‘dodge’ for pets, when we dodge? No. Just no.

Kaz.5430:

For those of you pointing out that giving the pet a non-interrupting evade boon could be abused, why not give the pet 0.75s of Signet of Stone (active) when the player dodges. That would allow the pet to attack, give it immunity to damage during the dodge duration, but still leave the pet susceptible to conditions and control effects.

That could work but there should to be an extra prevention like the evade frames/immunity ends if the player presses another command like F2.

Single F1 should order your pet to attack, but intelligently avoid red circles (nothing like ordering your pet to attack and watching it walk right through every red circle to get to the target.

Double F1 should order it to attack at all costs, including standing in a red circle until it dies.

Single F3 should order your pet to dodge/evade/whatever.

Double F3 should order your pet to come back.

I get the feeling they’re trying to avoid double-clicks and double-presses in this game though.

Solandri.9640:

Single F1 should order your pet to attack, but intelligently avoid red circles (nothing like ordering your pet to attack and watching it walk right through every red circle to get to the target.

Double F1 should order it to attack at all costs, including standing in a red circle until it dies.

Single F3 should order your pet to dodge/evade/whatever.

Double F3 should order your pet to come back.

I get the feeling they’re trying to avoid double-clicks and double-presses in this game though.

Double clicks/press are problematic with lags.

Jocksy.3415:

Solandri.9640:

Single F1 should order your pet to attack, but intelligently avoid red circles (nothing like ordering your pet to attack and watching it walk right through every red circle to get to the target.

Double F1 should order it to attack at all costs, including standing in a red circle until it dies.

Single F3 should order your pet to dodge/evade/whatever.

Double F3 should order your pet to come back.

I get the feeling they’re trying to avoid double-clicks and double-presses in this game though.

Double clicks/press are problematic with lags.

This is true, especially with things like world bosses and WvW zergs. Skill lag gets so bad during events like Tequatl that if I want to do anything but auto attack, I have to mash my skill buttons until they fire.

Here’s what I proposed in the Ranger CDI over a year ago now~

WATCH ME PULL A MOA OUT OF MY HAT…
While pet AI may not be entirely satisfactory, MMO combat is hardly a Turing Test. We can, with a little stagecraft, easily create the illusion of intelligent play.

Nothing Up My Sleeve…
Ranger companions gain an endurance bar, identical to player endurance bars in all ways. They gain Vigor any time their master gains vigor and they benefit from Natural Vigor if their master has that trait.

Any time the pet takes more than 20% of their maximum health in damage (a trigger we know the game recognizes due to traits like Nature’s Protection) and they have more than 50% of their endurance left, the pet instead takes no damage, evades for 2 seconds, and performs a dodge animation/movement towards its master (whom we can only hope is standing somewhere not stupid…).

Presto!
Pets now pretend to dodge, using their master as a reference point to give the appearance that they roll in a sensible direction when something massive is dropped on their heads. They also interact more consistently with the boon removal and corruption skills of other players, adding value to those skills.

Are even Players that Smart?
While I feel that triggering automatically when a major hit comes in is probably consistent with the level skilled players display, it would be possible to add an addition check with a <100% chance before the “dodge” triggers to simulate lapses. Also, because the trigger is damage-spike based, there are smaller attacks the pet will not expend a dodge to avoid. Finally, some of the pets with larger HP pools might be unnecessarily reluctant to dodge. Thresholds would have to be tuned following playtesting.

I like the idea to make them dodge or give them blur when the ranger dodges. Blowing a dodge to save your pet would be fine. Nike’s idea could also work really well, but it would be harder to implement. Also, I don’t see how anyone could see this as a nerf. There might be changes one has to make to their playstyle, but that would be worth it imo.

In a pvp scenario, if I’m attacking someone, and I dodge their attack, I would want my pet to keep attacking. If my dodging forced my pet to dodge, that would drop my dps slightly.

Jaysin X.6740:

this has been brought up before and I’m not fan, for similar reasons as slingblade and bloodpyrope. I’d rather they put a dodge on f3 and give the pet it’s own endurance.

This. This is a good solution imo.

Arcaedus.7290:

In a pvp scenario, if I’m attacking someone, and I dodge their attack, I would want my pet to keep attacking. If my dodging forced my pet to dodge, that would drop my dps slightly.

Jaysin X.6740:

this has been brought up before and I’m not fan, for similar reasons as slingblade and bloodpyrope. I’d rather they put a dodge on f3 and give the pet it’s own endurance.

This. This is a good solution imo.

So a blur like effect, which I think would be easy to implement wouldn’t stop your pet from attacking right?