Guild Wars 2

Is that supposed to be a loaded question?

Are you going to offer an opinion on the class or not?

If I was looking for an offtopic arguement with YOU, I would have gone into one of your build threads to point out how much better they’d be with Devs who actually played this class in a non-trolling fashion.

Please stick to the topic of how difficult this class is for EVERYONE. Not just you and me. We both know we could have a 1337-off competition in much more productive venues than this Chopps…

you can make 1,2 or more mistakes with any other class(guardian,thief,mesmer,etc ), if you have 1 or 2 mistakes with a ranger you will die fast, you cant rely on your pet because in a 1vs1 if your opponent know how to play he will be always moving and ranger pet will never hit him , we must fight against our opponent and the stupid ia of our pet(60%/40% or 70%/30%).

I love when people refer to extra credits completly wrong. To date I have yet seen a single reference that made sense.

I know I was playing a mesmer in spvp, and I found myself fighting a warrior. I don’t know how I did it but I tricked the warrior into always attacking my clones, and never me. I won that fight because he didn’t know which one was me. Its all about how the class is viewed. I play a slightly altered trap ranger in spvp, and I pretrap. When I leave a point, I leave my traps behind, and take a second or two and watch the point, and when I see someone go in, trigger my traps, I always type “A ranger is always prepared” into map chat. It’s always a good feeling when you literally channel your own view of the class. But when your class doesn’t have a set view that you can see, it’s punishing.
When I played a warrior, I felt like a beserker, it was an awesome feeling. When I played a Necro, I felt like creeping death. When I play my ranger, I feel like an always prepared skirmisher.

TL;DR: its all how you view your class. If you try to play a thief like you would play a mesmer, your not gonna have a good time.

Well at least with the melee weapons evading/blocking/dodging are really important. So when using those weapons it becomes vital to save evades etc for deadly skills. After learning skills that are important to dodge though, I don’t see that much of a higher skill ceiling. I guess learning to micro the pet effectively, but that’s really not very difficult.

Zorby.8236:

I love when people refer to extra credits completly wrong. To date I have yet seen a single reference that made sense.

Fortunately for you, no one even has to read the original post to answer the question.
This isn’t a Quiz, there is no right answer. Rangers I talk to in-game seem really pleased with their performance even tho I’m quietly unimpressed when I watch them face more difficult areas of the game. But I respect them all the same and I don’t tell them they’re “doing it wrong” like you just have

I think rangers are in a different place then all the other classes. I think its the “go to” class for new players and its also one of the harder classes to make shine. since ive been on my Ranger ive fought atleast 50-60 other rangers and you can tell by character movements and rotation that the players are in a panic and just trying to stay alive. When you compound that with the class having a High skill ceiling to play well and you have a demographic that is sure to be split between “the class sucks” and “learn to play”

I think the main stigma behind the class is that it HAS to be a ranged class and in guild wars the ranger is better suited for melee.

just my opinion.

Jaxx.

It’s not one thing, but a several different aspects that makes the Ranger difficult. The biggest one being the unreliable pet. In PvE, the pet works great, because all it has to do is stand still and tank. In PvP, the pet can barely get a hit in, as players are constantly moving around. So in PvE, a Ranger can create bad habits, by relying too much on the pet doing the work. And in PvP, a Ranger will mostly feel like damage output is too low, because the pet is not consistently hitting (or is dead) like in PvE. So it’s basically like playing two playstyles. One playstyle relies on the pet, the other tries to make up for the lack of damage.

Kasama.8941:

And in PvP, a Ranger will mostly feel like damage output is too low, because the pet is not consistently hitting (or is dead) like in PvE. So it’s basically like playing two playstyles. One playstyle relies on the pet, the other tries to make up for the lack of damage.

I find snippets like this… a lot more informative for some reason than all the advice and lecturing from the number crunchers for some reason. So upon reading it , I decided to run around WvW looking for some test cases, IoW: ppl who could run forever without being boxed in by the Conquest format. …Yeah I think I see what you mean.

They also told me I’d have to basically apply a cover condition every 2 seconds just to keep cripple on them… (not only so I could keep up with them myself, but so that my pets could even make contact). They divided and conquered by forcing unexpected 1v1’s and simply couldn’t be downed…also told me the only good ranger there was something called RRR build. I’m guessing that’s some gimmick that lets the pet actually deal damage still? Regardless… it felt like their personal positions on skill curves was a game changer in general

ilr.9675:

Fortunately for you, no one even has to read the original post to answer the question.
This isn’t a Quiz, there is no right answer. Rangers I talk to in-game seem really pleased with their performance even tho I’m quietly unimpressed when I watch them face more difficult areas of the game.

Fascinating, but I never mentioned any of this, so I don’t know why you’re telling me.

ilr.9675:

But I respect them all the same and I don’t tell them they’re “doing it wrong” like you just have

I was talking about your reference to the Extra Credits video…I don’t know how I could’ve made it any clearer. The video makes no sense in the context of the discussion…And that’s the problem, people just link EC to seem smart or whatever, and they always fail to be relevant. I haven’t told a single Ranger or anyone else they’re “doing it wrong”.

And with regards to the title question. No prof is hard to learn…the only ones that think any prof is hard are the ones playing it, I guess they need some reckognition.

ilr.9675:

Zorby.8236:

I love when people refer to extra credits completly wrong. To date I have yet seen a single reference that made sense.

Fortunately for you, no one even has to read the original post to answer the question.
This isn’t a Quiz, there is no right answer. Rangers I talk to in-game seem really pleased with their performance even tho I’m quietly unimpressed when I watch them face more difficult areas of the game. But I respect them all the same and I don’t tell them they’re “doing it wrong” like you just have

the reason you are “quietly unimpressed” is because you fail to recognize the class for what it is. You are not alone, the vast majority of players that visit these forums have that same line of thought. In all honesty, so do most new rangers too, however, you will not be able to even scale the “skill mountain” before you realize how this class works.
And to reach that point, the point where you realize that “this is not broken” “This is how it’s done”. That point, is not some magical level, or hidden within a hint or a thread on the forums. That point, is only possible to reach when you find a playstyle and a mindset that meets YOUR needs as a player. This class can only be mastered individually, and no amount of guidance will ensure that you will be able to play it. This is why the vast majority of rangers get steamrolled in PvP, WvW and PvE dungeons. Because they don’t have the proper playstyle, nor the right mindset.
This is also exactly why the minority that has truly learned how to play the class seem to excel with such brutal ease. Once you learn to play, to maneuver, to position yourself, to keep your optimal range, be it melee or long range, when to use skills, what skills to use, which traits to pick, which bugs to avoid, when to send in the pet or when not to. Once all this comes into play, become fluent, and seamless. That is when you begin your trip up the learning curve.
It is simply, that hard.

The ranger isn’t particularly high on the skill curve. It may be difficult to get top end performance out of the ranger but the same can probably be said for all other classes. At the low end the ranger is probably the easiest of all classes to play.

Tsohg.1798:

TL;DR: its all how you view your class. If you try to play a thief like you would play a mesmer, your not gonna have a good time.

However in the case of a ranger, if you try and play a ranger like a warrior you will have a fairly good time (if you are skilled enough), but if you try to play a ranger like a ranger it’s not going to go well for you.

ilr.9675:

Kasama.8941:

And in PvP, a Ranger will mostly feel like damage output is too low, because the pet is not consistently hitting (or is dead) like in PvE. So it’s basically like playing two playstyles. One playstyle relies on the pet, the other tries to make up for the lack of damage.

I find snippets like this… a lot more informative for some reason than all the advice and lecturing from the number crunchers for some reason. So upon reading it , I decided to run around WvW looking for some test cases, IoW: ppl who could run forever without being boxed in by the Conquest format. …Yeah I think I see what you mean.

They also told me I’d have to basically apply a cover condition every 2 seconds just to keep cripple on them… (not only so I could keep up with them myself, but so that my pets could even make contact). They divided and conquered by forcing unexpected 1v1’s and simply couldn’t be downed…also told me the only good ranger there was something called RRR build. I’m guessing that’s some gimmick that lets the pet actually deal damage still? Regardless… it felt like their personal positions on skill curves was a game changer in general

Well, like most other professions, the Ranger is kinda forced into specific builds in PvP. The pet can’t hit consistently, the Ranger is bad at burst damage, and you don’t have any good way to support your allies. But the Ranger has good evades and good regeneration capabilities, and is good at stacking control conditions. So this means that the Ranger is forced into playing bunker builds, because of all the evades and regeneration, or builds that relies on stacking conditions, mostly because of traps. This is also because what these two builds do, is make sure that your pet will hit more often. When you play a bunker build, you can keep close to a foe and lock him down (mostly with sword), meaning he won’t be able to run around too much. And when you play a trap build, you get your snares from them.

It is possible to play a burst build though (which is what I play myself), but the problem is the high recharge time of the skills you use. What I do on an attack is; longbow auto-attack (to remove aegis and make sure I’m in range) > Hunter’s Shot > Rapid Fire > Muddy Terrain > Barrage > Lightning Breath > Entangle > Swoop > Hilt Bash > Maul > Crippling Throw. Once I go through that, I can usually go back to longbow and get some shots in, if my opponent isn’t dead already. The problem is then that after I do this, Muddy Terrain will be on a 25 second recharge time, Barrage on 30 second recharge time, Lightning Breath on a 30 second recharge time, and Entangle will be on a 150 second recharge time. So it’s basically one big attack, and then run away and wait 30 seconds for reset. If you go all the way into damage, it is possible to down foes using just your weapon skills, and not worry about what your pet does. But needless to say, you will be very squishy. And unlike a Thief, you won’t be able to just escape should your attack fail.

Just a few comments about how people talk about the “skill curve” that I find both annoying and confusing.

To “where is the ranger on the skill curve” and “what is the skill curve for the ranger” imply two very different relationships. And with all due respect, most people don’t know what they are really talking about when use the term “skill curve”.

A skill curve can represent the relationship between performance and skill (or amount of practice). In this case, you WANT a steep curve, because a steep curve implies much more improvement in performance for a given increase in skill. A flat curve implies that performance doesn’t change much with level of skill.

There are two other aspects of the “curve” that matter. The “initial level” (or intercept), which refers to the level of performance obtained with 0 (or minimal) skill. Then there is the asymptote, which is the maximum level of performance obtained by someone with infinite (or really high) skill.

One final consideration is “what is skill”? In an MMO it implies not mainly twitch reflexes, but applying good tactics, using situational awareness and knowing how to maximize your specific build.

With this in mind, I believe that for WvW the ranger has a very shallow skill curve, with a mid level asymptote and low intercept. There seem to be many rangers who perform simply terribly (low intercept) and a fair amount of work seem required to perform even reasonably (shallow curve or slope). The very best rangers excel, but they need highly optimized builds and will still be beaten by equally skilled players of other classes (e.g., HGH engineer).

So, one way of thinking of skill curve is that each class has their own. Another way of thinking about skill curve is that there is only one curve and each class falls some place along that curve. This 2nd type of skill curve means something different and is more complex to think about.

easiest in general pve. your pets tank you just press auto attack on longbow. BUT!
after a level must be much much better as anybody in your party or any of your enemy.
the real problem is a lot of things useless. spirits, any weapon except sw in pvp, pets ai and attack, in most situations we cant keep distance etc… our profession mechanism, everything what make us different.
image the thief forum if the invisibility and the backstab not working :p

Ranger is a pretty easy class to play, until you start doing dungeons, fractals, WvW, sPvP or you get to 65+ zones. Then the sky falls on you.

At that point you need to adapt, learn you class, find your play style, know your pets. It becomes one of the most complex/difficult classes to play effectively.

And then you have the shortcomings and continuous unjustified PvE/WvW impacting nerfs (They nerfed the Moa, for god sake).

As I said in other threads, Ranger is the class when you need skill to overcome the shortcomings, instead of gaining an edge.

But fear a well-played Ranger in a non-zerg situation in WvW, count on your well-played Ranger to prevent a wipe in a dungeon/fractal boss, to help keep the aggro away from the party in several trash encounters, to stand in a circle of fire to revive a fellow player and survive.

Rangers can be awesome, but we do feel underpowered, nerfed and neglected.

Rangers are a high-DPS class that is dependent on having good reflexes in reaction to boss tells (since sword auto delays dodging slightly) and effective pet and spirit management, since those can’t dodge and aren’t as expendable as mesmer clones, for example. That’s to play a ranger effectively to the extent that people actually want to take you in dungeons. At a basic level, though, they’re not hard to play; you sit back and use the weaker-but-safer weapons like longbow or greatsword while your pet tanks for you. Compare that to the warrior or guardian, where you basically play the same way the entire way through; spam your skills on cooldown and you’ll do fine so long as you don’t die.

I am actually currently of the opinion that rangers are currently extremely overpowered and in need of some serious nerfs, at least in PvE, but reaching that overpowered state is something that needs to be accomplished in and of itself.

I watched that video it perfectly describes how alot of the content is with ranger pets, punishing not difficult.

As for how hard it is to play ranger, not very probably because most content isn’t very hard either it makes the “finetuning” of your skills using it take much longer, I can’t be more precise than that, though on the other hand after almost a year playing a ranger I still feel I am improving in small ways.

Thank you everyone else for your Corroboration. Agree…Disagree… I think it’s all useful either way

Zorby.8236:

I was talking about your reference to the Extra Credits video…I don’t know how I could’ve made it any clearer. The video makes no sense in the context of the discussion…And that’s the problem, people just link EC to seem smart or whatever, and they always fail to be relevant. I haven’t told a single Ranger or anyone else they’re “doing it wrong”.

And with regards to the title question. No prof is hard to learn…the only ones that think any prof is hard are the ones playing it, I guess they need some reckognition_[sic]_.

This is coincidental and incredibly misdirected. But it’s also really off topic so I’m not going to dissect what’s incorrect in your posts. …Nor do I need an EC episode to make a case for me. EC tends to jump around too much and be too General infact. Meanwhile, my IQ, Vocabulary, and also important: Grammar, is well enough above the norm …and I’m well aware of it to the point that any attempts on your behalf for a veiled personal attack there, is a complete dead end. So stop… You’re only damaging your own extra credibility here.

If you don’t understand the key concept of what can feel punishing to others about this class, then just say so or try listening for it better. Please. There’s no reason to go on the offensive when the only motive here is to gather examples & testimony

.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

(since sword auto delays dodging slightly)

EDIT: Clarification required…. Do you mean when Auto-Attack is specifically on? Because I’m finding even with auto-attack OFF, that I have to anticipate about 400ms ahead in everything I do because even first or second attacks in the chain without auto-attack, FEELS like either the server or client or BOTH, is demanding that the full animation plays before it lets me actually cancel any of them and go straight into the Hornet Evade or the Viper Evade. Possibly by Design?? I can’t even imagine how this must feel to ppl with AutoAttack on in crowded areas where there’s also “Skill (Activation) Lag”

I’d argue that rangers difficulty is pretty low, I’d certainly rate the skill floor as higher than thief, warrior, and guardian, but it’s skill ceiling is probably just above Warrior, IE: the second lowest.

I’d say most of ranger is more punishing than difficult, as I’ve said elsewhere, for ranger if you kitten up with your pet management you get kitten D by the consequences. We lose a large portion of our damage, and sometimes even utility/support (depending on how you build) for 60s. NO OTHER PROFESSION gets hit that hard by kittening up with their profession mechanic.

If the pet swap CD was just 20s flat, or our pet would Rez (while in combat) within 20s of dying without the swap(IE you can swap and take a huge CD but have pet ASAP or wait and be petless) then it’d be fine.