Guild Wars 2

I have a guardian as my main and would like to roll ranger but there are a couple things stopping me, my main concern is how bad greatsword damage is. It really boggles my mind that my zerker gaurd auto attack chain 3 skill can hit for 5k in pvp and my zerker ranger auto hits for 3k max, concidering ranger has significantly lower base damage on the skill(about 1000 on guard and 600-700 on ranger). On top of this, my guard GS splits utility and dps much like ranger, yet my guard has a burst skill that can crit for 8k, where maul only crits for measly 4k at best.

Warrior has heavy armor with highest health pool, guardian with heavy armor and easy uptime on protection in zerker build(and other defensive buffs) and ranger only has medium armor and medium health pool(with no protection in pure zerker build). Ranger, a class that seems to have the makings of a pure dps class(dps coupled trait lines, crit/crit damage and an attack haste utility) has a greatsword that has significantly worse damage then that of any greatsword wielding class.

I just cant justify as to why the damage is so kittening terrible. I’d like to see it at least brought up to guardian lvl damage.

Edenwolf.6328:

I just cant justify as to why the damage is so kittening terrible. I’d like to see it at least brought up to guardian lvl damage.

GS for Warriors = DPS weapon
GS for Guardians = DPS weapon
GS for Mesmer = AoE/Utility and long range DPS weapon
GS for Ranger = Defensive/utility weapon (Evade on #1, leap on #3, knockback + block on #4 and Stun/Daze on #5)

If a Ranger did the same damage as a Guardian/Warrior with a greatsword with pet damage on top of that… Well, it’d cause some issues with balance, not only due to the high damage that would be achievable but also with the defensive nature (Imagine what it’d be like to face a Zerker Guardian DPS but that also evades every 3rd hit) of the weapon.

As far as it goes, if you want to melee DPS as a Ranger they have a perfectly good Sword that is designed for just that (It does about 50% more DPS than Greatsword currently), also Greatsword is getting buffed in the next patch.

Taril.8619:

Edenwolf.6328:

I just cant justify as to why the damage is so kittening terrible. I’d like to see it at least brought up to guardian lvl damage.

GS for Warriors = DPS weapon
GS for Guardians = DPS weapon
GS for Mesmer = AoE/Utility and long range DPS weapon
GS for Ranger = Defensive/utility weapon (Evade on #1, leap on #3, knockback + block on #4 and Stun/Daze on #5)

If a Ranger did the same damage as a Guardian/Warrior with a greatsword with pet damage on top of that… Well, it’d cause some issues with balance, not only due to the high damage that would be achievable but also with the defensive nature (Imagine what it’d be like to face a Zerker Guardian DPS but that also evades every 3rd hit) of the weapon.

As far as it goes, if you want to melee DPS as a Ranger they have a perfectly good Sword that is designed for just that (It does about 50% more DPS than Greatsword currently), also Greatsword is getting buffed in the next patch.

I am pretty sure you didnt play 20 hours with your ranger. It doesnt matter if it is a defensive weapon. The damage sucks. Sucks badly. And the “defensive” weapon, doesnt work that good if, as Eden said, we are medium armored, with no defense, do damage that much. Doesnt matter what you state. GS is underpowered. And the super “patch” that they told to us, will be a mini buff to maul.

AreUMadBro.6907:

Taril.8619:

Edenwolf.6328:

I just cant justify as to why the damage is so kittening terrible. I’d like to see it at least brought up to guardian lvl damage.

GS for Warriors = DPS weapon
GS for Guardians = DPS weapon
GS for Mesmer = AoE/Utility and long range DPS weapon
GS for Ranger = Defensive/utility weapon (Evade on #1, leap on #3, knockback + block on #4 and Stun/Daze on #5)

If a Ranger did the same damage as a Guardian/Warrior with a greatsword with pet damage on top of that… Well, it’d cause some issues with balance, not only due to the high damage that would be achievable but also with the defensive nature (Imagine what it’d be like to face a Zerker Guardian DPS but that also evades every 3rd hit) of the weapon.

As far as it goes, if you want to melee DPS as a Ranger they have a perfectly good Sword that is designed for just that (It does about 50% more DPS than Greatsword currently), also Greatsword is getting buffed in the next patch.

I am pretty sure you didnt play 20 hours with your ranger. It doesnt matter if it is a defensive weapon. The damage sucks. Sucks badly. And the “defensive” weapon, doesnt work that good if, as Eden said, we are medium armored, with no defense, do damage that much. Doesnt matter what you state. GS is underpowered. And the super “patch” that they told to us, will be a mini buff to maul.

You kidding me? GS is an amazing weapon for defense, it allows skills like QZ to become a defensive CD due to how amazing that freaking evade is, so many 3v1s I’ve prolonged to an ungodly amount of time with my bunker ranger because of my GS. If that thing did the damage of a warriors or guardians it’d be flat out OP.

Durzlla.6295:

Snip.

Don’t mind him, the username should tell you all you need to know.

AreUMadBro.6907:

It doesnt matter if it is a defensive weapon.

Oh, so should Shields on Warriors and Guardians also deal Warrior GS level damage?

How about Hammers that offset high control with lower damage?

What about those utility weapons such as Focus/Warhorn? Can’t see why they’re not pumping out 20k crits every 10 seconds…

The damage sucks. Sucks badly.

If you think the damage sucks, don’t play Necro… Ranger greatsword not only out DPSes Necro’s strongest weapon (Dagger) but also cleaves, which is something necros miss out on.

we are medium armored, with no defense

Medium armour is still better than all the light armoured classes (Not accounting for other class based defences)

Also, learn to build your character if you believe Rangers have no defence.
50% Endurance regen passively as a 5 point trait, protection on dodge as a 15 point trait for example.

Combine that with the fact that GS will evade on every third auto-attack, can leap out of danger with #3, can block and then knockback an enemy with #4 (Most likely interrupting them) and can outright stun with #5.

Then of course if you really wanted to you could carry around Sword/Dagger combo for an extra 4 evades (Hornet Sting/Monarchs Leap on 8 second base cooldown, Serpent’s Strike on a 15 second base cooldown and Stalker’s Strike on a 10 second base cooldown)

The ranger auto-attack chain has you evading for approximately 42% of the chain (if you go by the tooltips. Quickness does not change this percentage as the less time you spend in the third swing, the less time you are evading.

Why do people never take into account the defensive utility of a weapon when comparing damage?

The warrior GS has the highest damage of all the GS classes but has ZERO defensive utility (unless you count Whirlwind to escape). The ranger GS has an evade on its AUTOATTACK, a block/knockback, and a stun/daze.

And people are still asking why rangers don’t have as much damage on their greatsword attacks. Not to mention that rangers also have their pets dealing damage while they are evading/blocking/stunning…

Taril.8619:

AreUMadBro.6907:

It doesnt matter if it is a defensive weapon.

Oh, so should Shields on Warriors and Guardians also deal Warrior GS level damage?

How about Hammers that offset high control with lower damage?

What about those utility weapons such as Focus/Warhorn? Can’t see why they’re not pumping out 20k crits every 10 seconds…

The damage sucks. Sucks badly.

If you think the damage sucks, don’t play Necro… Ranger greatsword not only out DPSes Necro’s strongest weapon (Dagger) but also cleaves, which is something necros miss out on.

we are medium armored, with no defense

Medium armour is still better than all the light armoured classes (Not accounting for other class based defences)

Also, learn to build your character if you believe Rangers have no defence.
50% Endurance regen passively as a 5 point trait, protection on dodge as a 15 point trait for example.

Combine that with the fact that GS will evade on every third auto-attack, can leap out of danger with #3, can block and then knockback an enemy with #4 (Most likely interrupting them) and can outright stun with #5.

Then of course if you really wanted to you could carry around Sword/Dagger combo for an extra 4 evades (Hornet Sting/Monarchs Leap on 8 second base cooldown, Serpent’s Strike on a 15 second base cooldown and Stalker’s Strike on a 10 second base cooldown)

You think you are right, comparing two underpowered professions. Geez. Rangers, necro and engi are the professions that need buffs, we all know this. Make a comparison to a most powerful profession, like guard or warrior. You think that a guardian doesnt have much attack? It can be a glass canon, but its have op buffs and high def/hp. Warriors same. And your build sword/dagger can be taken out by a simple berseker short bow ranger. Got my point?
You guys think I am trolling, or some thing like that. But just think. Pets are dead in 70% of the cases(even if you use drake or ranged), and greatsword barely touches the enemy.

First of all, where did you get these numbers (I stopped reading when you blew my mind with your values). 5k on guardian third chain?! 3k on ranger third chain?! Both are wildly absurd. I’ve had 25 stacks of might, 50% crit damage (spvp) and hit a crit for maybe a 2.7k with guard third chain. 8k on whirling wrath? Plausible I guess if you have Unscathed Contender and your opponent is mentally ill.

to the people calling GS a defensive weapon: Random evades dont really mean much when 80% of all damage are AOE and conditions. 1-hand Sword is a way better defensive weapon.

AreUMadBro.6907:

You think you are right, comparing two underpowered professions. Geez. Rangers, necro and engi are the professions that need buffs, we all know this.

They may need a few tweaks but they’re not as underpowered as a lot of people say they are (I play all classes, Necros, Engies and Rangers are very strong if built correctly. In fact, my Engie does better burst damage than my full glass cannon GS warrior, can do it more often and has better survivability while doing it. My Necro puts out huge damage as full GC and also heals huge amounts while doing so etc)

And your build sword/dagger can be taken out by a simple berseker short bow ranger. Got my point?

If you’re bad, then you’ll be taken out by a SB ranger… If you can play then S/D will maul a SB ranger to death with the perma-cripple, high damage, perma-poison and multitude of evades.

Indoles.1467:

First of all, where did you get these numbers (I stopped reading when you blew my mind with your values). 5k on guardian third chain?! 3k on ranger third chain?! Both are wildly absurd. I’ve had 25 stacks of might, 50% crit damage (spvp) and hit a crit for maybe a 2.7k with guard third chain. 8k on whirling wrath? Plausible I guess if you have Unscathed Contender and your opponent is mentally ill.

Ive definitely crit for that high on both attacks, full zerker mode. Ya its rare but I’m just stating how high ive seen them hit for, I’ll try to get some screenshots tonight and post build.

Now back to discussion

Zane.8471:

to the people calling GS a defensive weapon: Random evades dont really mean much when 80% of all damage are AOE and conditions. 1-hand Sword is a way better defensive weapon.

Greatsword has evade on autoattack, Swoop for some of the best mobility in the game, and a block melee / projectiles on 4, along with a stun/daze on 5. Stun + swoop, when you land, block projectiles, swoop again: and you’re gone. In short, I’ll take GS over sword when I have to be defensive any day of the week.

My biggest concern is that when they buff the attack on GS they will, for balance, nerf the defensive utility of that weapon. That would make me a sad ranger. Longer CDs on greatsword swoop or block is NOT cool guys.

By the way, the evade is on the third chain of autoattack; so if you turn off autoattack, then you have access to more control over that skill. Remember, once triggered, there’s only a few seconds before the attack chain reverts to the first animation.

Edenwolf.6328:

I have a guardian as my main and would like to roll ranger but there are a couple things stopping me, my main concern is how bad greatsword damage is. It really boggles my mind that my zerker gaurd auto attack chain 3 skill can hit for 5k in pvp and my zerker ranger auto hits for 3k max, concidering ranger has significantly lower base damage on the skill(about 1000 on guard and 600-700 on ranger). On top of this, my guard GS splits utility and dps much like ranger, yet my guard has a burst skill that can crit for 8k, where maul only crits for measly 4k at best.

Warrior has heavy armor with highest health pool, guardian with heavy armor and easy uptime on protection in zerker build(and other defensive buffs) and ranger only has medium armor and medium health pool(with no protection in pure zerker build). Ranger, a class that seems to have the makings of a pure dps class(dps coupled trait lines, crit/crit damage and an attack haste utility) has a greatsword that has significantly worse damage then that of any greatsword wielding class.

I just cant justify as to why the damage is so kittening terrible. I’d like to see it at least brought up to guardian lvl damage.

Why are you completely ignoring the damage output from your pet as well?

Zane.8471:

to the people calling GS a defensive weapon: Random evades dont really mean much when 80% of all damage are AOE and conditions. 1-hand Sword is a way better defensive weapon.

I use GS + QZ in my bunker build, nothing says “defensive” like 6 seconds of Evade =D

Ran.3251:

Why are you completely ignoring the damage output from your pet as well?

Because in any sort of PvP setting or most bosses it’s either going to be dead, pathing in a stupid manner preventing itself from reaching the target, walking through 43 aoe’s to get to the target (thus dying shortly), running to the target then proceeding to stop and stand in one spot before attacking which gives the enemy the chance to strafe 2 steps and prevent the damage as the pet moves two steps, stops then starts all over again.

Etc, etc.
Pets are never going to have 100% up-time on the enemy, and yet that’s how the devs balance the rangers utilizing a flawed and terrible presumption of 100% pet up-time on the enemy.

Braxxus.2904:

Ran.3251:

Why are you completely ignoring the damage output from your pet as well?

Because in any sort of PvP setting or most bosses it’s either going to be dead, pathing in a stupid manner preventing itself from reaching the target, walking through 43 aoe’s to get to the target (thus dying shortly), running to the target then proceeding to stop and stand in one spot before attacking which gives the enemy the chance to strafe 2 steps and prevent the damage as the pet moves two steps, stops then starts all over again.

Etc, etc.
Pets are never going to have 100% up-time on the enemy, and yet that’s how the devs balance the rangers utilizing a flawed and terrible presumption of 100% pet up-time on the enemy.

In my experience, pets don’t die that easily when you build for the encouter your facing, be it dungeons or pvp. If your pet is targeted and is dying, remember, you have swap on a 15s CD when traited, 20s CD when not traited. Keep it alive for 20 seconds, thats it.

Use Natural Healing in dungeons with signet of the wild; in pvp, you’re going to have more success with pets that offer CC. No one can survive extended aoe, so control the pet and don’t let it wander.

Chopps.5047:

Braxxus.2904:

Ran.3251:

Why are you completely ignoring the damage output from your pet as well?

Because in any sort of PvP setting or most bosses it’s either going to be dead, pathing in a stupid manner preventing itself from reaching the target, walking through 43 aoe’s to get to the target (thus dying shortly), running to the target then proceeding to stop and stand in one spot before attacking which gives the enemy the chance to strafe 2 steps and prevent the damage as the pet moves two steps, stops then starts all over again.

Etc, etc.
Pets are never going to have 100% up-time on the enemy, and yet that’s how the devs balance the rangers utilizing a flawed and terrible presumption of 100% pet up-time on the enemy.

In my experience, pets don’t die that easily when you build for the encouter your facing, be it dungeons or pvp. If your pet is targeted and is dying, remember, you have swap on a 15s CD when traited, 20s CD when not traited. Keep it alive for 20 seconds, thats it.

Use Natural Healing in dungeons with signet of the wild; in pvp, you’re going to have more success with pets that offer CC. No one can survive extended aoe, so control the pet and don’t let it wander.

That’s my whole point though. People keep saying “but but you have to include the pet damage” as if the pet will be doing damage with 100% up-time. The truth couldn’t be farther from that. The majority of the time it will be dead, relocating, trying to cast it’s attack/F2 then moving and self-interrupting, running back to you etc.
So 40% of our damage only occurs SOME of the time…
And it’s entirely contingent upon simple-stupid AI instead of you the player.
That’s pretty fail class design honestly.

Chopps. How about you make some more youtube videos showing the ranger dps compared to warrior but this time use greatsword … also have one where you have to make your pet stop fighting for 1/2 the fight.

I’d be curious how that impacts how quickly you can kill the NPC.

The only thing more I’ll say is this: If you haven’t dumped points into BM line then your pets won’t be nearly as viable. However if you boost them up, they become tanky, kittened DPS machines. Yes it is kind of lame that your almost forced to put points into BM, but it does make all the difference. GS defense skills plus a beefed up pet is a very formidable build IMO.

Ran.3251:

The only thing more I’ll say is this: If you haven’t dumped points into BM line then your pets won’t be nearly as viable. However if you boost them up, they become tanky, kittened DPS machines. Yes it is kind of lame that your almost forced to put points into BM, but it does make all the difference. GS defense skills plus a beefed up pet is a very formidable build IMO.

Formidable 1v1. Possible 2v1. I’ve found that the tanky beastmaster build does not scale well to larger fights except for serving as a delivery unit for entangling roots.