Guild Wars 2

In short Why I don’t play the ranger ?
Because he has a useless pet.

I have lvl 80 ranger alt, that I leveled because I really like the weapons and style of game play it offers. Access to stealth, traps, evasion, and some skills are absolutely fabulous like GS 3 (Swoop), Horn 4 (Hunter’s call), Longbow 5 (Barrage), Lightning reflexes … Those skills might not be meta build, but they are really satisfying to use. And I would really like to play the ranger more. But every time I log into character selection screen I don’t pick ranger and here is why:
It’s true Ranger is packing some really nice tools but there is also this THING that you HAVE TO HAVE (MUST) no way around it … called pet. Stupid, annoying, pesky, nagging, AI from 1992, unresponsive, useless and needless creature you that will follow you no matter what.
I get it, there are players (quite a lot of them) who like to play eternally bounded pet classes, but there are also players (not as much as those spider lovers but still a lot) who would prefer to play this same class only without a pet.
Now I don’t have a problem with pet’s existence (any more) since I am playing games for a long time and in games there is this thing called: we (the developers) have putted sooooooooo much work into this, and that’s why you (the players) will play this if you like it or not, and if don’t like it we will push it down your throat.
So far I have not see a MMO that would have a pet class where the developers would, even on huge request of community, allow non pet builds/traits/perks, yet alone to change a class from pet class to optional pet class.
And the main reason why pets will stay is because there will always be more kitten lovers than players who would prefer the petless play style. And the forum logic is If you don’t like pet style go f yourself and reroll …
Okay pets are here to stay but they for sure can change. No worries my fellow bear huggers I am not taking your teddy bear away from you. I simply wish if you would be so nice and would allow me to play the same class a bit differently, I promise some of the changes you will grow to love as well.

Wish 1
The bare minimum I am asking for is altered Stow pet functionality or something similar. Stow pet ability (as it is now) allows you to hide the pet, but as soon as you jump and take 2 damage from falling your pet is back annoying your screen space. What I would like to have is: if you would shift/alt/ctrl/whatever/right click on stow pet it would toggle into a more pet less style of gameplay. I am going call this mode stow pet purple (icon) and in this mode the pet stays hidden ALL the time, until you call it with F1, then the pet comes and helps in attack and when the combat ends it vanishes without me pressing the stow pet button. The same way the messmer clones work … if not called they don’t come to kitten on your screen while in JP
and as soon as combat ends they know they are no longer wonted.
PS: The most clicked ability with a mouse in gw2 is stow pet.

On behalf of all players who are okay with pet system, as long as It is not kittenting my screen space when I don’t want it. Please give us an option to play without them.
Even the hardest Moa lovers will admit that doing JP without constant pet spawning is useful.

Wish 2
A trait that removes pet and increases player damage. Now here is the logic behind it:
Let’s say pet does 40% of ranger damage and with trait you lose the pet and it’s utilities but gain 20% flat damage increase.
All the top tier rangers would still play with pets because positioning the pet and yourself can give you better spike damage, overall damage is better, you get pet F2 skills …
But a lot of rangers would find this trait interesting because they are not on the same level of micromanaging their pet as the top ones … so this would greatly enhanced their gameplay
Ranger + pet + micromanagment is the most optimal > Ranger + trait – pet less optimal but is much easier > nubs who have pet and don’t micro manage it ( ME atm)
The trait could be balanced not only by damage but also by utility like traited you lose pet but all your stealth is 1 sec longer or when you have 4 condition on you then you are immune to any other condition applied … the ideas are endless
With such way you also solve the problem that rangers have while defending in WvW … your pet is almost useless on top of the wall. Not to mention the pets performance in zerg vs zerg skirmishing

This is the point of view of someone who has ALT ranger that is sitting and collecting dust. And the reasons why I am not playing ranger.
I know there is a big community inside the ranger community that would like to remove pet at lest as an option. But I do think that most rangers agree pets are the more annoying part while playing ranger.

Very dusty ranger.

every week the same wishes and same idea´s from a person that normally not played the ranger for 100 hours or more..good job !

1500 hours on my Ranger (Only character I will ever have).

Have to agree with the OP.

2500hours on ranger
1200 tpvp matches
all dungeons
personal frac lvl 50, i´ve done 79 3 times
about 20k wvw kills

just nope, it´s true they told that the ranger is a archer, but they even told us that you have to play with your pet, that it is a part of us
and even that the game mechanic will be melee dmg > range dmg

Man I agree with everything you said but I’d like to correct one point:

Etwa.2896:

All the top tier rangers would still play with pets because positioning the pet and yourself can give you better spike damage, overall damage is better, you get pet F2 skills …
But a lot of rangers would find this trait interesting because they are not on the same level of micromanaging their pet as the top ones … so this would greatly enhanced their gameplay

There’s no micromanagement in this stupid pet mechanic we are forced into. You have got just one broken f2 ability. Most of the times you can literally forget about your pet while the f2 is on cd. If you are on a point defending or attacking your stupid pet is going to die anyway with all the aoe spammed around. That’s why they implemented this absurd pet swapping thing. They realized this pet mechanic doesn’t work at all in a game like this but, instead of fixing/reworking/removing this kitten they just tried to clumsily modify it.

Bambula.3649:

but they even told us that you have to play with your pet, that it is a part of us

Cool I would be fine with that IF they implemented a decent pet mechanic.

Well here’s why I don’t play Ranger anymore I am playing FFXIV ARR Ranger and it’s a blast feels good not get nerfed at every corner like in GW2….anyways I’ll be back when they fix the ranger here but by the look of things IT"S GONNA BE AWHILE …meanwhile I’m having a great time…and before you insert…you can’t login….been loggin in fine in our server…YEEHAWWW checkout the magitech and my pet chocobo….
[IMG]http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x294/tejano2828/ffxiv_08312013_072114.png[/IMG][/URL]

In addition, the only company who know what a ranger/archer profession/job is, is Square Enix.

As a former ffxi fanboy, i can tell you how solid and well rooted this class is and with ff14 reborn, they are going to optimize this profession to a whole new level.

See- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrAXUDhsmZE

see advice from the Pro’s.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwHBHqwsm00

Also in addition to the normal archers skills and traits, their weapons have Limit Breaks.. see.. http://eorzeareborn.com/limit-break/

By the way, Square Enix didn’t choose the route as Arena.net; ranger with “pets”; (i’m sure they’ve seen how worthless our companions are; pets and now spirits) but instead, gave the full control and power to the ranger/archer.

Why drag a dead companion pet and spirit with you?

Who’s also responsible for your own deaths?

I’m also on the verge of leaning toward the true ranger class- ff14 Realm Beyond.

Why be on a ‘suicide trip’ with a suicidal pets system?

Sorry meant ARCH but I’m actually a Bard right now.

I gave up on my ranger main at level 60. Still played it a bit in pvp, but not so much. Why? Pet.

I was a huge GW1 fan (owned 2 copies of each expansion and main game) and played primarily ranger (only other character was a fifty five Monk and W/R).

I had 3 GW1 rangers. Not a single one had a pet, there was an actual option to not take it in GW1 and it wouldn’t kiten you.

I parked my ranger because the pet was so unresponsive and made me weaker. I retried it after the patches to pets, but still having a drake run at your foe, stand beside it and fire it’s payload the wrong direction is just so annoying that I gave it up.

Etwa.2896:

Wish 2
A trait that removes pet and increases player damage. Now here is the logic behind it:
Let’s say pet does 40% of ranger damage and with trait you lose the pet and it’s utilities but gain 20% flat damage increase.
All the top tier rangers would still play with pets because positioning the pet and yourself can give you better spike damage, overall damage is better, you get pet F2 skills …
But a lot of rangers would find this trait interesting because they are not on the same level of micromanaging their pet as the top ones … so this would greatly enhanced their gameplay
Ranger + pet + micromanagment is the most optimal > Ranger + trait – pet less optimal but is much easier > nubs who have pet and don’t micro manage it ( ME atm)

I posted the very same idea on the french forum, i have to agree with the idea, i dont see how we should have an handicap so big for 1min.
I have also another idea that could fix the problem of the dead pet, that the pet would actually never die but have its dmg nerfed while in “downed state”, so lets say 75% less damage and 25%-50% slower when it comes to movement, this way we dont have this bullkitten cooldown that leave us weaker than ever.

Etwa.2896:

Why I don’t play a ranger

you are free to play or not to play whatever you want but stop with those topics;
that’s “why i don’t care”.

seriously, if you want to learn something about rangers there are tons of guides/builds/helpifull player… why we play ranger? Because we know what we can do and what we can’t do; the first rule of the game is “know your limits”… also this is a game strongly based on group play so “what we can’t do” isn’t a problem.

Personally, I would like to play something like a warrior, but the warrior skills are just so… lame. And that boys and girls is why I still play my ranger; it still has the only feel to a class I enjoy.

The sword is fun, great sword is fun, longbow is okay (but at least it feels like a bow and not the grenade launcher of the warrior =_=’ ), lightning reflexes is fun to use (kind of sad they nerfed the underwater movement of it though lol; it was always fun to zip away like a jellyfish/ squid or something)…

I would be fine with a pet… but they just take waaaaaaay too much work compared to other classes mechanics. They die way too fast and once dead you lose like 40% of your damage… I could see why it would effect a player so much if one was to trait heavily/fully into BM, but when one is traits elsewhere I don’t think it should effect the overall class as much.

Also, it’s not always a matter of knowing or not knowing a class; it’s also depends on combination of the different variables that make up a class being entertaining, functional, annoying or just plain bad. I mean it’s not like there is another class out right now that has a similar feel to it’s play to the ranger; warriors just don’t have the same dynamism in their skills.

Burnfall.9573:

In addition, the only company who know what a ranger/archer profession/job is, is Square Enix.

As a former ffxi fanboy, i can tell you how solid and well rooted this class is and with ff14 reborn, they are going to optimize this profession to a whole new level.

See- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrAXUDhsmZE

see advice from the Pro’s.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwHBHqwsm00

Also in addition to the normal archers skills and traits, their weapons have Limit Breaks.. see.. http://eorzeareborn.com/limit-break/

By the way, Square Enix didn’t choose the route as Arena.net; ranger with “pets”; (i’m sure they’ve seen how worthless our companions are; pets and now spirits) but instead, gave the full control and power to the ranger/archer.

Why drag a dead companion pet and spirit with you?

Who’s also responsible for your own deaths?

I’m also on the verge of leaning toward the true ranger class- ff14 Realm Beyond.

Why be on a ‘suicide trip’ with a suicidal pets system?

Man that game looks amazing and the archer seems really well made. Thanks for those videos.

Fjandi.2516:

Man I agree with everything you said but I’d like to correct one point:

Etwa.2896:

All the top tier rangers would still play with pets because positioning the pet and yourself can give you better spike damage, overall damage is better, you get pet F2 skills …
But a lot of rangers would find this trait interesting because they are not on the same level of micromanaging their pet as the top ones … so this would greatly enhanced their gameplay

There’s no micromanagement in this stupid pet mechanic we are forced into. You have got just one broken f2 ability. Most of the times you can literally forget about your pet while the f2 is on cd. If you are on a point defending or attacking your stupid pet is going to die anyway with all the aoe spammed around. That’s why they implemented this absurd pet swapping thing. They realized this pet mechanic doesn’t work at all in a game like this but, instead of fixing/reworking/removing this kitten they just tried to clumsily modify it.

Errmm.. There is micro-management actually.. Or are you a ranger that only uses F2?
(I will recall (F3) my pet to me when I see it getting hit hard (by AoE or whatever) and I can’t swap. Once it’s regenerated, I’ll send it back in (F1).. ==> Micro-management)

Tribio.8531:

Errmm.. There is micro-management actually.. Or are you a ranger that only uses F2?
(I will recall (F3) my pet to me when I see it getting hit hard (by AoE or whatever) and I can’t swap. Once it’s regenerated, I’ll send it back in (F1).. ==> Micro-management)

Yes mr.pro commander I basically only use f2 and pet swap and sometimes f3 since in pvp (the only game mode i play) you are forced to play on points or close to them. I can keep my stupid pet alive just by swapping it or, if I have to defend or contest a point and the aoe is extreme, my pet is dead even if I keep it passive. In pve and wvw is a bit different and ye I call back my pet more often, still this is not micromanagement and there is basically no skill at all behind that. Lol I can’t even keybind my active/passive button.
Also mr. commander when i play wvw kitten (usually on my guardian cos I can spam things and aoe even better as a guardian) the aoe and zerg is often so massive the stupid ranger pet would be dead even if kept passive.
You are just trying to see micromanagement (wtf is this? It reminds me of some economy bullkitten) and active play where there is just passive play and spam.

You can micro your pet to get its skills to fire off correctly. I can f3 my drake, stand at the edge of a point, then f1 → f2 to the other side to get the skill to fire properly. You can also do subtle things, like giving your pet fields to combo in.

Fjandi.2516:

Yes mr.pro commander

Haha, that cracked me up..

I basically only use f2 and pet swap and sometimes f3 since in pvp (the only game mode i play) you are forced to play on points or close to them. I can keep my stupid pet alive just by swapping it or, if I have to defend or contest a point and the aoe is extreme, my pet is dead even if I keep it passive. In pve and wvw is a bit different and ye I call back my pet more often, still this is not micromanagement and there is basically no skill at all behind that. Lol I can’t even keybind my active/passive button.

Err, what? PvP, the only game mode you play.. And then later on you mention PvE and WvW..
I don’t see any reason why you would keybind the active/passive toggle? Just put your pet on passive by default and hit F1 when you want it to attack? Also, if the AoE is that extreme and your pet is dying (while on passive, so standing close to you), have you ever tried moving?

Also mr. commander when i play wvw kitten (usually on my guardian cos I can spam things and aoe even better as a guardian) the aoe and zerg is often so massive the stupid ranger pet would be dead even if kept passive.

Once again: If your pet is on passive and it’s still getting hit by AoE, have you tried getting out of the AoE circle yourself?

You are just trying to see micromanagement (wtf is this? It reminds me of some economy bullkitten) and active play where there is just passive play and spam.

“micromanagement is a management style whereby a manager closely observes or controls the work of subordinates or employees”
Ranger keeping an eye on the health of his pet, recalling it when needed.. Yeah, micromanagement, my friend..

Tribio.8531:

Errmm.. There is micro-management actually.. Or are you a ranger that only uses F2?
(I will recall (F3) my pet to me when I see it getting hit hard (by AoE or whatever) and I can’t swap. Once it’s regenerated, I’ll send it back in (F1).. ==> Micro-management)

When I notice my pet taking damage I hit F3 and he just keeps doing whatever he was doing and dies.

The two main problems with the pets are:

A) Unresponsiveness. The pet will finish whatever it is doing before it does what the player wants. Which is ridiculous. When the player gives input for the pet the pet should IMMEDIATELY do it. It should instantly cancel its current action, mid attack, mid animation whatever and do what the player wants. In addition there should be no “wind up” times for their F2 abilities. If I want my wolf to fear that means I need his fear now, not 3 seconds from now when all the enemies have moved out of range, it means right this second.

B) Fragility. Pets need to scale with player stats. If I load myself up with toughness and vit my pet needs to become tougher as well, same with damage stats. In addition pets need to take greatly reduced damage from AoE effects. Not just red circles, cleaves, piercing etc. Anything that does not directly target the pet needs to do a fraction of the damage to the pet.

There are a ton of other problems, pets being useless against targets they can’t path to being one, but these are the main two things that if fixed, would go a long way to making their pet class better. I’ve played MMOs for about 10 years now and I can honestly say GW2 has the worst pet mechanics of any MMO I’ve ever played.

Tribio.8531:

stuff

I play spvp only ye, sometimes pve (mostly dgs) and rarely wvw (that game mode is a mess, only real pro commanders like yourself could appreciate that).

Tribio.8531:

Once again: If your pet is on passive and it’s still getting hit by AoE, have you tried getting out of the AoE circle yourself?

Do you even play pvp? If you are the only one on a point and you are defending it, if you move out of that point you will lose it. What you suggested is not always possible.
In wvw every time i see a video of one of those “hardcore wvw guilds” playing gvg or just zerging around all i see are aoe effects cluttering the screen (lol it’s not like tpvp is any different tbh). This while the idiot of the moment aka commander aka mobile blue mark is running around screaming. So in a scenario like this how is the poor ranger supposed to keep the stupid pet alive? “sry oh my commander can i retreat for a moment from the fight cos my pet is getting slaughtered by all the aoe spam?”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYrQMoOBqaI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b372p4e9fRM
Are you serious?

Tribio.8531:

“micromanagement is a management style whereby a manager closely observes or controls the work of subordinates or employees”

You are such a smart guy aren’t you? I know what “micro-bullkitten” means. The devs like using complicated words to describe the ideal game that exists only in their heads.

In dungeons, the pets are pretty much useless. Many bosses can (and they will) one-shot them, the unresponsiveness is just an added bonus. If i can get a copper for each time the pet stays in the red circle while i recall it, it’d be able to buy a precursor.
Swapping pets can do some good, but plenty of bosses does big attacks more frequently than 20sec.

I am a melee ranger with sword/dagger and already have to deal with the rooting of this set. Last thing i want to do is babysit a pet with AI from the early 90’s with clumsy controls.

Ok, clear to me that you are just looking to get into a heated discussion.. I’ll reply here, and then I’ll move on.. Kitten..

Fjandi.2516:

I play spvp only ye, sometimes pve (mostly dgs) and rarely wvw (that game mode is a mess, only real pro commanders like yourself could appreciate that).

Thanks for informing me what I appreciate in this game.. Wouldn’t know what to do without you pointing this out..
WvW is a mess, even this “pro” commander says it..

Fjandi.2516:

Do you even play pvp? If you are the only one on a point and you are defending it, if you move out of that point you will lose it.

Ok, that cracked me up.. So if I should be like another class (without a pet), I’ll have to stick in the AoE and possible get tons of dmg on me, just so that the other team can’t cap? I’m certainly not an avid PvP player, but somehow I find that logic of yours flawed, to say the least..

Fjandi.2516:

In wvw every time i see a video of one of those “hardcore wvw guilds” playing gvg or just zerging around all i see are aoe effects cluttering the screen (lol it’s not like tpvp is any different tbh).
This while the idiot of the moment aka commander aka mobile blue mark is running around screaming.

You really should do some WvW, if that is your impression of it atm.. From the statements you are making here, you’d make one hell of a zergling..

Fjandi.2516:

So in a scenario like this how is the poor ranger supposed to keep the stupid pet alive? “sry oh my commander can i retreat for a moment from the fight cos my pet is getting slaughtered by all the aoe spam?”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYrQMoOBqaI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b372p4e9fRM
Are you serious?

Yes, I’m serious.. However, I like that you keep mentioning all your WvW knowledge, based on YouTube videos..

Ever heard of tactical advantage and usage of your environment? As a ranged ranger, I won’t join in the blob.. And I’ll probably take out the ranged pet (spider)..
You don’t see mesmers or so rushing into a zerg either.. And (most) elementalists will also keep as far as possible away from the enemy blob, while doing their dmg..

Fjandi.2516:

You are such a smart guy aren’t you?

I don’t consider myself to be stupid, that’s true.. But no point in playing the IQ game against you, that’s clear..

Fjandi.2516:

I know what “micro-bullkitten” means. The devs like using complicated words to describe the ideal game that exists only in their heads.

Quote was from Wikipedia.. Just wanted to point out that the definiton of micromanagement is perfectly applicable when mentioning pets and their management..

Nice reply Tribio I expected a boring and foregone answer but you definitely managed to surprise me. Now, that’s ofc my perception of wvw, since i don’t really play wvw. I used to roam quite a lot in the past with my old bm ranger spec but, you know, small scale is what the bm ranger excels at, since all you have to do is randomly evade while the pet is killing targets for you.
I’m not saying you can’t play well as a ranger by positioning yourself smartly. I can stay at 1500 with my lb and use a ranged pet, that’s correct. But, let’s be honest, that’s not as effective as an additional guardian or hammer warrior is it?. That’s my impression. Also you would be the only one targetting something, since in most wvw videos i see no one is even picking a target, everyone is just spamming around as much as possible. I am not talking about small scale fights ofc. Why are they spamming? Cos they are bad? That’s a possibility but, most likely, there are two reasons: 1)It’s extremely effective, and 2)You can’t really understand wtf is going on.
I might be wrong ofc, you could make a video to show us how amazing the ranger is in NUMERICALLY BALANCED wvw fights (like gvg fights), how it’s effective at supporting your group and how you can easily keep your pet alive in that mess without losing your effectiveness. I’m not trolling nor i want to “get into a heated discussion”, I am sincerely curious. I might change my view of wvw.

Pet is tough to micro manage, but if you can get over that hill you can be effective as a ranger. The play style is not for everyone though, would be nice if you had options, I am sure a lot of rangers out there want to be all pew pew pew from the sidelines… I call that food for thieves in pvp and wvw, but it works well in all pve encounters.

Oh, a constructive reply, I like.. :-)

Fjandi.2516:

you could make a video to show us how amazing the ranger is in NUMERICALLY BALANCED wvw fights

My own vids are pure solo roaming vids.. :-)

Our awesome guild leader has some nice vids on his channel, but (unfortunately) they are from his perspective (guardian):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSVyMxgNRp8
You’ll see the nice white ranger with wings running around.. :-)

It is no numerically balanced match however, we are a bit outnumbered in this encounter.. Nevertheless, we stomp..

The amazing thing here about the ranger? Entangle and Barrage. And taking out the ones that try to run away of course..
(most of the team are guardians, but they aren’t as mobile and ranged as a ranger)
Of course, I have to add that also the other classes are doing nicely here.. We have one hell of a support ele, giving us some nice water/fire fields. The necro’s of course pop conditions, …

TL;DR: Every profession has an added value to a team.

in comparison to all other professions, the ranger is not very streamlined. utilities, traits and weapon abilities dont work well together. too many soft cc’s, too little dps, not enough utility (no stab/prot/might, no aoe hard cc, no heals). in comparison to other properly played and specced profs, there is no reason to roll a ranger in organized WvW (GvG, GvZ, even small gang fights). the amount of utility and damage warriors, necros, eles and guardians bring to the table makes the ranger laughable. even the thief has a niche role for bursting single targets down, or doing massive aoe. engie has many blast finishers and water fields, in addition to much better aoe condis.

Tribio.8531:

TL;DR: Every profession has an added value to a team.

you play on a very low tier server where zergs are mostly upleveled people who run around without any stability. of course the ranger will seem like a good contributor. chances are, if we as a community havent figured out a place for the ranger in organized WvW by now, neither have you, sorry.